Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 1
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrotePage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
https://news.sky.com/story/angela-lansbury-on-sexual-harassment-women-sometimes-to-blame-11148661

She's being ripped apart all over the internet for this but i wholeheartedly agree with her as i suspect a lot of other people do, by other people i mean the one's who don't spend their time virtue signalling all over Twitter at someone else's opinion they don't happen to agree with. The article below says it better than i could.

https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/29/angela-lansbury-right-women-need-take-responsibility-contribute-bad-sex-situations/
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 8:37:01 AM
Kirk
Aye I've just been reading about her. Surely she must now be shamed and burnt at the stake? Or the dousing pond? She and that germaine greer should be arrested by the breastapo and put in a "re education camp" or at least a fight to the death live on twatter.........

"Instead, Lansbury told the Radio Times: ‘There are two sides to this coin.’
And there we have it: heresy in one short sentence. Lansbury will by now know that in the eyes of the righteous, the puritans, the keyboard activists, there are never two sides to a story. This is all the ammunition a baying mob now needs.

Cue a monumental Twitterstorm denouncing Lansbury for being old, ignorant, out-of-touch, suffering with dementia, a rape apologist, a victim-blamer, a gas-lighter. One droll tweet sums up the collective mood:

*Sees Angela Lansbury is trending.*
‘OH NO! SHE’D BETTER NOT BE DEAD!’
‘Oh wait! It’s worse.’

In the eyes of 2017’s social-media chorus, it’s better to be dead than to express an opinion that falls beyond what the righteous have declared acceptable.

If these outrage-mongers ditched the euphemism and came out from behind their screens they’d be sharpening pitchforks and chanting ‘Kill the witch!’.

The fact that Lansbury makes clear that ‘there’s no excuse’ for the way men like Harvey Weinstein behaved is ignored.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/angela-lansbury-the-latest-witch-on-the-pyre-metoo/20588#.Wh7fiyOnxcs
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 3
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 8:51:49 AM
Regarding Lansbury's comments on female attractiveness and it is women's goal since time immemorial to make ourselves look as attractive as possible......maybe in her world of Hollywood glamour where looks and charisma might be your unique selling point and get you that coveted role. Ironically Ms. Lansbury played character roles and was often cast as someone decades older than her real age...it's not that she isn't attractive or wasn't pretty as a girl but it looks like relying on lipstick and rouge wasn't a necessity for her.

But in the real world, women focus more on being well-groomed and presentable rather than being glamourpusses....it's often considered inconvenient being too attractive. Anyway, there are so many different kinds of women, what makes one more attractive than the other in the first place?

Have to think about what was written in the rest of the second article. Of course common-sense should protect us all, but men need to be just as sensible/sensitive and automatically behave as gentlemen at all times.
 Jacknher
Joined: 3/16/2017
Msg: 4
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 12:26:14 PM
The boss (a middle-aged Greek gentleman) of a take-away where I worked when I was 17 harped on a lot about young men and women in cars with steamed up windows in the alley behind the shop......and seemed to have some sort fascination about regularly asking me if I went parking with young men.

By 19 I was working in a sports dept of a big Department Store and a male senior member of staff suggested several times that my legs would look nice in a white tennis skirt and that I wanted me to model the tennis and swimming gear on.

Then there was the boss in the pub I worked in at 21........who would have a few drinks and then ask myself and the other young barmaids to "come sit on my knee and we'll talk about the first thing that pops up".

Even at 17 I had enough common sense not to let myself get into a situation were I was alone out the back of the shop after dark with the takeaway boss.....and by 21 I knew enough to steer clear of the pub boss when he was drinking.

I suppose these days that some of that would be classed as sexual harassment........back then it just went with the territory.
 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 5
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 2:23:35 PM
Bed knobs n broom sticks
 6jellybeans
Joined: 7/1/2015
Msg: 6
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 2:34:13 PM
A friend of mine works in LA as an story editor.

She was grabbed and assaulted. Thankfully he didn't get to do what he clearly intended as someone interrupted it but quite frankly any assault like that is serious.

She had 2 "line managers". One female, one male. The female brushed it under the carpet and threatened to destroy her career if she ever spoke a word of it. The male was horrified when he found out and very supportive but sadly unable to do anything apart from advise her to go to the police as the guy who did the assault was his boss and it was, at the time, a small company with no real HR department. Both my friend and her male colleague ended up leaving shortly after. She has only just reported it because the man who assaulted her can no longer trace where she lives, damage her career and she feels safer now to speak up because she is in a fully supportive work environment where that sort of behaviour is simply not tolerated.

I know of several men who have done absolutely nothing wrong who have been accused and gone through absolute hell to clear their names.

I know women who have been assaulted who have kept quiet for fear of not being believed and having to go through emotional hell to gain justice.

Women can be just as mean and cruel as men. Sometimes more so. Never underestimate a woman. We can be just as screwed up and messy as guys.

People get slated on the internet all the time regardless of who you are or what you think there will always be someone who will get thrills from being an arse towards you.
 imanorangetiger
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 2:49:41 PM
^ I agree. There are good people and bad people about. Sometimes good people do bad things. Immorality isn't sexist.
 _GypSea_
Joined: 2/14/2017
Msg: 8
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 3:57:30 PM
I agree with you rekirked and with Angela Lansbury.

Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over.

Ten years ago, a young woman I worked with told me that she was fed-up with men talking to her b00bs all the time. Heck, the top of her nipples were busting out. What’s a guy to do and I’ll admit it, I’ve talked to them (b00bs) as well. Sometimes it just can’t be helped. There's a fine line between looking and touching and groping and …
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 11/28/2015
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/29/2017 5:21:40 PM
I'm not sure that Angela Lansbury is making much sense with that quote at all. A woman's level of attractiveness shouldn't have ANY repercussions.

The article however makes a lot of sense.

Some men are getting a richly deserved comeuppance and if it makes one bullying idiot think a bit more about his behaviour then that's a good thing. But as with all things there is a balance , there is a middle ground and it seems to be sadly lacking. Some of these guys are being thrown to the wolves and crucified with zero evidence.

I can't quite get my head round some of these women making claims of x, y or z ' touching' my knee ( or in one case brushing so gently she wasn't sure if it was a touch or not) It is very easy to make it known that it is unwelcome, without being rude or with being rude if the guy is thick or persistent.Surely not every adult woman can be that delicate a flower that they can't deal with that? And surely the rest of us needn't be QUITE so outraged that some bloke dared to touch some woman's knee? Jeez, if no one ever touched anyone's knee ( or something similar) no actual relationships would ever get off the ground would they?

It does make sense to look out for yourself. Ideally no woman should have to think how to best protect themselves. And all men should be able to control themselves. Unfortunately that is not the world we live in and if I had a daughter I would do my darndest to make sure she got that message. Obviously that is not to excuse or condone any man who harms a woman because actually there is no excuse.

The atmosphere at the moment is horrific. I am all for women being believed but right now that seems to be the ONLY option on offer in some quarters without any tiniest consideration of the overall picture. There was an incident recently involving the daughter of someone I know. Her and her ex ( they are both 11) had an argument and he shoved her against the wall. My instinctive reaction was that this was schoolyard argy bargy , which obviously needed to be sorted out but that's the extent of it. I didn't say anything initially and then watched the responses pour in , telling the mother to report it to the police, it was violence against women , it needed to be recorded cos it would inevitably happen again with this boy and there would be a paper trail and on and on. An 11 year old boy and they want him to have a police record. Then someone made the perfectly reasonable suggestion that the other side of the story should be obtained before going any further. Absolute heresey ..... the only important thing was that a girl was believed. The boy was being hung , drawn and quartered by all and sundry.

I would not like to turn back the clock to my school days and teenage years when some completely unacceptable behaviour went on and no one ever did a thing about it. It was disgraceful what most of the girls in my school had to put up with for a few years before the boys grew out of it. Not me, I was far too aggressive and wild tempered for anyone to mess with me more than once but some of the meeker girls, my sister included. So I am glad that these days that type of behaviour is not tolerated. On the other hand as the mother of a 15 year old boy I am scared for him and his friends as they attempt to negotiate this bloody minefield where the slightest wrong word or touch could lead to a complete shitstorm.

This stuff is quite hard to say without being accused of being some sort of apologist. Which I am not. In any way shape or form.
 heavenlivesnear
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 12:04:53 AM
"Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over."

maybe if you men didn't turn into a sexual predator every time you see a bit of flesh, women would be able to exercise their right to safely walk around completely stark naked and not be subjected to these behaviours.

no fooking way in hell am i taking any responsibily for the actions of you men. in my view, anyone who thinks that women should accept responsibility for their own sexual harm, is equally as harmful, if not worse, than the predator themselves.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 12:36:43 AM
Nice one, I actually laughed out loud!
 imanorangetiger
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 12:47:55 AM

you men


Some of you men, you mean. Otherwise, I'm in general agreement.

However, it goes both ways. Women should recognise that some of them are guilty of the same behaviour they accuse men of exhibiting. The Diet Coke adverts weren't being ironic.

Can't we just treat people as people and not just sex objects? There's a time and a place for that.

Reminds me of a scene in The A Word this week, between Ralph and Maurice, where Ralph says the same thing.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 2:15:58 AM
Tee hee - the person who wrote the original post.................................is a woman


"Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over."/quote]


maybe if you men didn't turn into a sexual predator every time you see a bit of flesh, women would be able to exercise their right to safely walk around completely stark naked and not be subjected to these behaviours.

no fooking way in hell am i taking any responsibily for the actions of you men. in my view, anyone who thinks that women should accept responsibility for their own sexual harm, is equally as harmful, if not worse, than the predator themselves./quote]
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 2:26:18 AM
She also wrote "There's a fine line between looking and touching and groping and …" possibly overstepping the mark on your behalf but it is something most of the people on the UK forum regard as absolute bollocks.

Things have changed, we're not perfect but it is getting better.

When I started work back in the 70s (yes KY I am fukn ancient) I worked in the computer department. One of the supervisors used to regularly comment aloud to everyone in the office about the breasts of one or two of the women. It was all sort of light hearted yet something which would get you sacked today. The women then used to brush it off and I have to say that it was only this one man who could get away with it. I would have got a black eye if I'd tried.
 heavenlivesnear
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 2:42:18 AM
"Tee hee - the person who wrote the original post.................................is a woman"

Kirk will be surprised to learn that.


Edit..
sorry orange i meant to acknowledge you are right... it should be "some" men
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 16
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 2:44:49 AM
I meant the original post of the quote

""Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over.""

 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 4:23:34 AM
I knew the article was written by a woman which is one of the reasons I posted it, it wouldn't have felt so valid if it had been written by a bloke. Actually if that article had been penned by a male it would have been decried as misogynistic, sad but true.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 4:41:22 AM
Noooooooo - I meant the comment by gypsea 10 comments back from this one - you know, the one I quoted?

 _GypSea_
Joined: 2/14/2017
Msg: 19
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 4:52:02 AM
Justanotherchap in post 13: Just to clarify, yes I am in OP of the sentence “Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over.” BUT please note that the following 2 paragraphs you have in that quote are NOT mine. They belong to another female poster.

I’m also a strong proponent of human rights and that includes men, women and children. As a sailor, I refuse to visit countries where children are forced to work in factories, where women are used as sex slaves, and … well you get my drift. Contributing to the economies of those countries is against my principles. On the other hand, visiting countries like those in the Caribbean who were devastated by hurricanes this year will be top of the list. Our tourist dollars help them rebuild.

I too, started working in the 70s and at the age of 22 I experienced something that could get the male in question fired today. I just brushed it off - but I remember him and his action.

I have a 32 year old son, who’s employer has been in the news for the past few years for this exact subject - sexual harassment/assault. I would hate for him to get accused of such behaviour and have spoken to him often about this topic. I’m really hoping that the past transgressions of some men change now that this topic is in the media.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 5:26:34 AM
Absolutely fair enough gypsea but if you and anyone else had actually read and understood my post and the copied comments rather than just reacted to it, you would see that I was laughing at the response to what you said and not at what you said.

Please re-read it.

You said
"Although men should not act like azzhats, women don’t need to walk around exposing their tatas for all to see and lust over."

and heaven said in reaction to that (msg 10)
"maybe if you men didn't turn into a sexual predator every time you see a bit of flesh, women would be able to exercise their right to safely walk around completely stark naked and not be subjected to these behaviours."

I responded to heaven suggesting you are a male sexual predator (her words)

I'm fully aware the next two paragraphs aren't yours which is why it was in a double quote, there is a border around those last two paragraphs.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 21
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 5:48:10 AM
Well...
Who decides if a "woman is asking for it"?
Usually = the rapist.
And it's surely very subjective, and "cultural".
Some societies feel that hair is pornographic, others: ankles.

The whole notion of "victim-blaming" comes from the patriarchal misogyny espoused by religions, who feel that "men can't help it", and women who've been raped, should be stoned to death, for not having a chaperone, or not being covered-up enough, or "not crying loudly enough in the city" ("Deuteronomy", if I remember correctly?)

Old people have always complained about the amount of flesh young people display.
"In olden times a glimpse of stocking was locked at as something shocking....now heaven knows:anything goes"

So who decides?
Or.....
You could just keep it simple: no matter how "attractive", or "provocative" that YOU might feel a woman is being, in her dress, or her "movements", or actions,
A man has no "rights", other than those which the woman give you, by consent.

I've always found that there's enough blood in me, for the full-functioning of both the big, and the little "brain".
Consequently, I've never experienced any confusion, even when I was young, and single, and "putting it about"
A friend I used to drink with on Friday nights, for years when I was married, used to constantly insist that barmaids, waitresses, or other women in the crowd were "totally coming on to you", and I'd say "nah, she's just being friendly".
He once said that if a woman stripped, and laid down in front of me, I'd "miss it". :

I think that some men see "what they want to see".

Some women are just attractive, no matter how much they cover up, or how modestly they behave, some men will see her as "flirting" with him, because they want to excuse their own obnoxious behaviour, in their own minds.

If some men continue to struggle, with what's acceptable, and what isn't, they should do society a favour, and just castrate themselves.
I'm all about solutions, today.
 10ky
Joined: 11/15/2012
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 5:59:09 AM
^^
Well...
Who decides if a "woman is asking for it"?
Usually = the woman. Show too much arse and you'll get too much c0ck for fk sake. Ain't that obvious?

If you don't want to fall down the precipice, don't get too close to the edge. Don't blame gravity for pulling you down. That's what gravity does and you know it very well. It's the same with rapists and men in general albeit I'd like to think that the vast-est majority of men will not engage in any violence despite the unprecedented stiffs certain women can give you ffs.
 RoxyMoronic
Joined: 6/7/2016
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 7:34:32 AM
You’d have to read each individual ‘case’ before having any insight, not band-wagon them all together.
If it were me and I’d been groped/touched/assaulted or ‘made’ to feel offended in any way and some jerk acted like my feelings were invalid and I should brush it off/act, behave or dress differently I’d be suggesting they fvck off and die.


Edit....Pauline left? shame
 imanorangetiger
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 8:24:17 AM

Well...
Who decides if a "woman is asking for it"?
Usually = the woman. Show too much arse and you'll get too much c0ck for fk sake. Ain't that obvious?

If you don't want to fall down the precipice, don't get too close to the edge. Don't blame gravity for pulling you down. That's what gravity does and you know it very well. It's the same with rapists and men in general albeit I'd like to think that the vast-est majority of men will not engage in any violence despite the unprecedented stiffs certain women can give you ffs.


While it's my opinion that the rest of your post is complete bollocks, the question you ask about who decides is actually the pertinent part.

Yes, it's the woman's decision whether "she's asking for it", but more often than Not, the Kenyon refer to are second guessing it. They decide that the woman's "asking for it" just by looking at her, despite whether that's her true aim or not.

And that's the point. If a woman is dressing for sex or deliberately giving off signals (some are, and there's nothing wrong with that), then it's for her to make those intentions clear. It works in a similar way to the tea consent analogy: https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8. . Just because you're thirsty and you see someone with a cup of tea, it doesn't mean you can go up to them and expect them to let you have a sip, even if you ask politely. If they beckon you over and offer because they see you're obviously thirsty, that's fine. Otherwise, you should look for a tea shop and reflect on why you're thirsty in the first place.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote
Posted: 11/30/2017 8:59:31 AM
Asking for it is "will you/do you want to have sex with me? Wearing as little as possible (whether innocently or deliberately) to illicit a response (or not) doesn't mean she is subliminally asking for sex. To state a woman is "asking" for sex just because she's wearing a certain type of attire is the stuff of Neanderthals.
Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Angela Lansbury - Common sense she wrote