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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.      Home login  
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 tetser
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 1
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.Page 1 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Hawkings in the Grand Design took the position that the Universe was created Spontaneously out of "nothing" through the effects of the laws of Gravity, but Hawkings put the Cart before the horse....the laws of physics do not create anything, they are merely a result of the creation itself. Gravity was created by the Universe as were all of the Laws of Physics.

Some people claim that God was created by "primitive" peoples who did not understand the scientific reasons for existence. Total nonsense. People of thousands of years understood the Rules of Nature. They simply did not understand the Whys....nor do we. Sure, we can mathematically determine exactly how the earth orbits the Sun...but we don't know WHY there exists laws of physics that result in the Earth orbiting the Sun.

The point of this... the laws of Nature do not obviate the need of a God, they prove the need for a God, a "Grand Designer".

Some might say that we are merely one of an infinite number of Universes where the laws of physics allow for our existence.

But that too puts the Cart before the horse... if we assume there is a Multiverse...(and this is but an unprovable scientific postulate), how was the Multiverse created to begin with?

The more one delves deeply into mathematics, the more one has to accept the idea of a Grand Designer responsible for all of this.

As for where ther Grand Designer came from, that assumes he too had to be created.... but there is no reason to believe he has not always existed, that he is eternal. Makes far more sense to believe there was a Grand Designer creating our Universe than to believe it just popped out of nothingness.... that's kind of like saying the Space Shuttle popped out of Nothingness. . . not in an infinite amount of time would that have ever happened....and yet the Universe is far more complex than the Space Shuttle.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 2
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Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/16/2018 9:35:25 AM

if we assume there is a Multiverse...(and this is but an unprovable scientific postulate), how was the Multiverse created to begin with?

Actually there is a multiverse. It was discovered by Stewie Griffin on September 27th 2009, episode 1, season 8 of Family Guy..
 ROSASBLANCASONLY
Joined: 2/22/2018
Msg: 3
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/16/2018 2:32:03 PM

Some people claim that God was created by "primitive" peoples


Huh.?
That one is new to me...I am still in "shock"
 tetser
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 4
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/16/2018 3:29:46 PM

That one is new to me...I am still in "shock


I'm not sure why you don't see this. The standard Atheist argument is that God was created by Man to explain "natural laws" they did not understand, whereas supposedly today man is so much more scientifically enlightened that he only needs science and not God to explain the natural world. Of course, the exact opposite is true...
 trulyata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 5
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/16/2018 8:41:07 PM
The board is gone...nobody left to debate the existence of God.
 ROSASBLANCASONLY
Joined: 2/22/2018
Msg: 6
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/17/2018 8:05:41 AM
^^^
Good, there nothing to debate about it

GOD existence is Real....That's it.!!

https://youtu.be/w_q1cwQKSvM
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 7
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/17/2018 10:27:54 AM
The poor little fvcker's only been dead for a few days, and already you're mis-spelling his name.
Show a little respect.
It's fvcking Stephen HAWKING.
No 's'.

Not to be confused with Richard DawkinS.


As for the existence of "god"; well, you really need to be a bit more specific.
- Which "god"?
There are allegedly hundreds.

The only difference between an atheist and a "believer", is that the atheist believes in one fewer "god" than the believer does.
-They both agree that 99.99% of them are wrong.

"Believers" are also non-believers. ~ Funches 3:16

HTH
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 8
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/17/2018 2:13:16 PM
Hawking still got it wrong. The universe could be spontaneously created through gravity? The laws of physics? But what created those laws? They just popped into existence on their own? Sure thing Jovan. Different religious beliefs so not negate the ultimate truth.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 9
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/17/2018 3:14:34 PM
Why do people even bother.

It's a mind set.

The info is all there.

Most (almost all) made up they're minds a long time ago,
and just feed it.
 platata
Joined: 3/14/2018
Msg: 10
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/17/2018 3:26:22 PM
Is that supposed to be some sort of argument Army self? The real question mark is why you are bothering since you have your mind made up and don't believe there is any room for dispute. Jovan too has his mind made up. He calls it the god of gaps, and he believes that has science fills in the gaps there is less room for God. And yet science becomes more understood, the beauty of the design of creation becomes the better argument
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 11
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 2:39:01 AM
Hawking saying there is no god is just as ridiculous as saying there is one. Of course I believe there is a creator, but I wouldn't go as far to say there is most defiantly one, without proof, because then it wouldn't be a belief.

What bothers me is Hawking thought he had a background and authority to say there wasn't, with science being his background and authority. His answer to the question only shows his bias as what he would call himself 'more higher advanced form of chimp', but of course Hawking thought highly of himself in this regard, otherwise he wouldn't be answering such a question. The correct and most truthful answer is 'I don' know.'.

What also bothers me is people who think they are smarter for being atheist.

Your awareness is soo f_cking small in comparison to the universe. Everyone is soo f_cking biased. At some point on the scale there is little to no difference in awareness of a insect and a human in comparison to the universe.

Hawking was no genius, but of course the media makes him out to be one. IMO hes just some guy in a wheelchair with a science degree.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 12
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Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 4:09:10 AM
if you believe in evolution then you don't need to believe in God as it does try to combat intelligent design theories, although you can believe in both if you want to.

you may want to read up on what science calls nothing when it comes to the creation of the universe as it makes sense and does not mean nothing. unlike the existence of God theory that...oh.

also the big bang theory is supposed to back up the existence of God so you're supposed to use that to back up your beliefs and not say it is the reason why God cannot exist, but hey if you wanna go against religion here to back up your religion i don't mind.
In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître proposed an expanding model for the universe to explain the observed redshifts of spiral nebulae, and calculated the Hubble law. He based his theory on the work of Einstein and De Sitter, and independently derived Friedmann's equations for an expanding universe.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 13
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 6:44:53 AM
Hawking was no genius is equivalent to saying Einstein was no more than a patent clerk, but you are right in that he had no particular qualifications to determine whether God created the universe.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 14
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 6:47:07 AM
Evolution has nothing to do with creation. Totally different concepts. Evolution may, or may not, account for all of the different life on earth though.
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 15
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 11:12:56 AM

Hawking was no genius is equivalent to saying Einstein was no more than a patent clerk, but you are right in that he had no particular qualifications to determine whether God created the universe.


actually, i don't believe Einstein to be genius either, both were exceptionally good at physics, but imho this isn't enough to constitute genius. Geniuses are polymaths, able to learn concepts quickly, and have amazing memory, creativity alone isn't enough. There are reports of some geniuses able to learn about a subject in 15 minutes what could take someone over a year to learn. Some could read a 300 page book and reread it without using the book. Einstein or Hawking may have been 'genius in physics', but physics alone isn't enough to take on the whole definition of genius.

a google search of list geniuses, comes up with einstein, hawking, steve hand jobs, bill gates, leonardo da vinci, some other musicians and artists, etc ..... if some of these guys fit the definition of genius, then there are a lot more geniuses out there. Genius should only be top 1% percentile, 5% max
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 16
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 11:43:03 AM
Well Reason, you are free to define Genius any way you choose for yourself, but by the standard definition, both Einstein and Hawkings were super geniuses.....from the point of view of their sheer intellectual abilities that few others could match. In Einstein's case, his five Miracle papers, including his Special and General Theories of Relativity were such momentous exercises of sheer brain power and intuition, that many people thought he must be an alien. Even other lesser physics geniuses of the day did not understand how he came up with his work. Arthur Eddington, another Genius of Einstein's day, when Asked in 1919 whether it was true that only three people in the world understood the theory of general relativity, allegedly replied: 'Who's the third?”

So I like to define genius, among these great minds, as intellectual ability vastly superior to mere mortals.

but yes Genius is also reflected in the creative abilities of people like Steve Jobs...and certainly in a large number of other scientists and engineers who discover ways to make life easier for the mass of humanity. You don't have to be an intellectual Giant like Einstein to be considered a Genius...you do have to think outside the box in ways that other people have not thought before. Leonardo... one of the great geniuses in History of course.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 17
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/19/2018 12:10:36 PM
By the way, Einstein's theory of Gravity was probably more reflective of the man's genius than anything else, even greater than his theory of Relativity. . . most Physicists regard him the greatest physicist since Newton.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 18
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 6:10:50 AM
"Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see." - Arthur Schopenhauer
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 19
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 7:53:15 AM
i struggle to fully understand the theory of relativity. i know it means things move at different speeds because of something (distance? gravity? who knows?).
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 20
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 8:28:59 AM
Lots of people struggle...and you have to be a high level physicist or mathematician to understand the math behind it, but there are lots of layman explanations out there...and its not hard to understand how it works.

https://www.space.com/17661-theory-general-relativity.html

But out of the Theory of Relativity, Einstein developed the theory of Gravity... a totally new way of explaining Gravity, the theory being proven by empirical evidence. . . which essentially has to do with gravity being caused by a curvature of space-time caused by the mass of an object.

A good explanation of Einstein's contributions to science is here....http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7318567/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/its-alberts-world-we-just-live-it/

If Einstein was not a genius, there is no such thing.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 21
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 8:35:20 AM
Here is a short video explaining relativity....actually not hard to understand when put out this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteiuxyqtoM
 wwspeed1195
Joined: 1/4/2016
Msg: 22
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 8:53:45 AM
God exist for those whom want or need.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 23
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 9:07:44 AM

God exist for those whom want or need.


Nonsense.... God either exists or he does not. He is not both states. He does not exist for some people who need him and not for others who don't.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 24
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 11:08:07 AM
thanks. i have watched kids videos explaining science (as they are easier to understand when you're first learning) and used to use a science forums so people have explained things to me the best they can. weirdly the kids video was more complicated, and confusing, than the one you offered me here.

so the relativity is just about perspective? i get that.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 25
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 11:53:33 AM
^^^^ Yes and no...goes much deeper. I am not a physicist....as I understand special relativity....it determined that no matter where you are, on or off the train, no matter how fast the train is going either towards you or or from you, a light beam will reach you at the same instant..
.The principle of the speed of light: The speed of light is the same for all observers, regardless of their motion relative to the light source. (Physicists write this speed using the symbol c.)
.so if the speed of light does not change... what is the variable that does? and what Einstein determined is Time itself changes...not the speed of light. As an object approaches the speed of light...time actually slows down relative to a more stationary object... which is why time is the variable that changes when the light beam reach you and why from your perspective, it reaches you at the same instant..whether the train is moving towards you or away from you.

In other words, before Einstein, time was thought absolute...that it always passed at the same exact rate no matter what the circumstances.
Einstein proved Time is not absolute... that it goes faster or slower depending on how fast a person is traveling. The closer to the speed of light a person travels...the slower time goes. So if a person gets on a space ship and travels close to the speed of light, when he returns to earth...he will find that everything has aged while he has not.

This actually is important in practical science, example., to ensure the proper calibration of GPS units. . . otherwise they might be off by significant amounts.

What Einstein discovered was totally against what our intuition tells us happens in the real world...and yet his theories have been proven over and over... the mark of true genius.
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