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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Specific question about time travel, i did google.      Home login  
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 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.Page 1 of 1    
Ok, so i was taking to my son last night about time travel. He's only 14 and pretty smart but even he doesn't know the answer to this (and i refused to answer his question about whether i would kill Stalin or Hitler if those were my only options and had him teach me about Stalin for a while instead).

But where is the past?
We all know there has to be a destination to travel to, so where we going exactly? And yes i don't get time properly although i can grasp some stuff about it. I looked on quora as they have some pretty smart answers on their usually, they mentioned stars and how what we are seeing is in the past and some other interesting things but then how the speed of light slows everything down and i kind of stopped understanding although i did get that slowing things down means that everything else is moving forward in time except for yourself but i don't get how this is time travel exactly.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/21/2018 11:49:34 PM

where is the past?

It isn't. It was in many places... every place, in fact. When all was a singularity there were no places, and no past.

To go into the past to educate Hitler you need to reverse causality for everything in the universe except your tardis.

i did get that slowing things down means that everything else is moving forward in time except for yourself but i don't get how this is time travel exactly.

It isn't the kind of time travel you're thinking of where you can also go back in time... so don't call it time travel. Call it time dilation.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/22/2018 4:08:27 AM
Time is among the least well understood aspects of our existence. It is less well known than the cause of gravity, which is also unknown.

We know various things which result in apparent changes in gravity, and in how time seems to pass, but these understandings are limited to various resulting effects, rather than making it clear what gravity or time actually ARE.

Really, the idea of TRAVELING through time, comes as a result of imagining time to be a fourth DIMENSION, similar in concept to the way we visualize height, width, and depth as being the first three dimensions. Since we know that we can travel in each and in all of those other dimensions, once we declare time to be a dimension, we presume that we can travel in that one as well.

But really, there is no evidence that time fits as in as a DIMENSION in that sense, at all. Time, like gravity, seems to be more like a resulting phenomenon, a sort of "side effect" of something else, rather than existing as a thing, in and of itself. Just as gravity appears to be a "side effect" of mass, time may also be a "side effect" of the way we perceive other aspects of the universe, and also not a thing, in and of itself.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/22/2018 5:17:59 AM
I had to google time dilation but yes that makes sense and is something to do with Einsteins theory of relativity? I'm slowly understanding that over several years already even though there are videos out there explaining it in 7 mins or so. The source i found said that was how time travel was possible but i couldn't seen any way how it was really as people were just travelling at different speeds and meeting again at another same point in the future but both times between that meeting were different for each person-which is a headfk in itself to think about and interesting. Like if i walk to meet someone and they travel in the car and go faster, have i aged more than them? Maybe this is why some people don't age well they're just going too slow and are actually older than we think. Thanks for your input i enjoy your posts @Gingerosity.

IgorFrankensteen Had to read that a few times to get it but it does more explain how we might have a destination to go to even though there's nothing to say that time physically exists. I think it's hard to even imagine ways that it could exist if you only think about time itself and not the potentials and ways other things exist.
Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/25/2018 9:23:15 PM
Well, I don't claim to know or understand it all much more than many others for sure, but this is an interest of mine and I definitely have some ideas, so I'll make my contribution. Warning: A lot of jibber jabber ahead.

Firstly, I'll tell what I think time IS. Whatever we think that time is...is what makes it hard to understand other things if we're misunderstanding what it even is. I don't know that I'm right, but this is what I personally have the most confidence in - lacking much real scientific knowledge on it.

Also, my idea of what time is apparently can't be "matched up" with what's going on in the quantum realm. But things in the quantum realm are pretty weird and not necessarily all worked out anyway - It's been suggested that I'm wrong because of this. However, I do feel that even if we could have a better answer based on quantum truths, what I think is going on is still true - Kind of in that way that molecules still exist and do what they do even though the deeper realities are atoms and then protons, neutrons, and electrons (but that's not a good analogy). It might just be that what we think of when we say "time" is emergent and only shows up above a certain scale, and that's why it's weird when we look at the quantum realm. Whatever the deeper truth is, I think it still helps to think of time in the way I'm going to explain.

I'm sure that you've heard that energy is always transforming into different forms. Ok so...I speak of it as "things HAPPENING". Things happen. All happenings. Events. What's going on when we have an event, or when something happens? Anything at all - you thinking, you breathing, the light coming from your lamp, rain falling. Every tiny or big event.

No matter what the events are, there is one thing that they all have in common. None of them could exist without it. And that is energy transforming into other forms (and/or energy moving from higher states to lower states?). One could say that all events are just different manifestations of just one thing - energy flowing through different forms.

It is my belief that this is what time is. Our EXPERIENCE or PERCEPTION of energy transforming...things "happening"...we label as "time". The "passage of time".

If there were no energy transformations of any kind at all...everything would be "frozen", in every way. Nothing would happen. Time "wouldn't exist". Time would be "standing still".

Now...a stumbling block here can be thinking of things in terms of "systems". A given system. A particular system is an arbitrary assignment. A clock is a system, smaller parts of the clock are their own systems, the groups of molecules making those parts are systems, your room that the clock is in is a system, your body is a system, the planet is a system, the solar system as a whole is a system.

A clock is no more of a measurement of time than the earth going around the sun is. Or the rotation of the earth making the sun rise and set for us, making a day. Or a burning stick of incense used to mark time in ancient china.

Any system can be said to be having time...but only IT'S time. It's OWN time. And that's it. The clock isn't indicating any kind of "universal time", we only use clocks coordinated with each other so that we can organize and coordinate our own activities. But that's it.

I said that our experience of time is our perception of energy transforming. But there's also the matter of the RATE at which energy transforms. The speed of it. Rate measured how? Of which system? Compared to what? That's also an arbitrary assignment. Depends on what we happen to be talking about or want to look at. But within ourselves...our biological organism...whatever the rate is or is based on at a given moment, we're PERCEIVING that energy is transforming - that "time is passing".

Ok, so...to put this part shortly...there are different factors which can cause the RATE of energy transformation to change or be different from one system to another. The speed of one system's energy transformation...it's time...can change COMPARED TO another system. Take two identical clocks, running at the same speed...and impose one or some of these factors, and you'll get a difference in the speed by which the clocks run COMPARED TO EACH OTHER.

Or do this with two humans. And they'll "age" at different rates.

So consider that you keep one clock or human as part of the whole universe as one system...but impose one of these factors to the other clock or human...compared to whatever "time" is for the rest of the universe, the "time" for the second clock or human will be different. Time will pass at a different rate. The second human's time will pass slower, so that it will seem to that human that he has traveled forward in time. Because he indeed has. To him, everything else's energy transformation has went by faster. More things have happened than they would have otherwise...COMPARED to him.

This is why forward time travel already happens, constantly and everywhere, although in normally unnoticeable amounts. Because that's what it would mean to say "travel forward in time". To travel forward in time, you'd basically be slowing down your own system in every way at every level...so that everything else can "go by" faster...until you are at a future point in time "sooner" than you would otherwise be relative to how much time you experienced yourself.

This is also why backwards time travel isn't possible. It's a totally different kind of thing. It's not simply a "reverse" or "opposite" concept as forwards time travel.

There is no "place" to go to. There's nothing there. And no way to get there if there was.

To go forward in time, there doesn't have to be some place or pre-existing point in time waiting for you to go to. Because that's not what you're doing when you travel forward in time. To go forward, you're just pushing "pause" on yourself for a bit while everything else keeps going normally.

But the universe, nor any part of it, isn't somehow progressing to some backwards point. However it's progressing...is what we just happen to call the forward arrow of time. Whatever state things were in at some point in the past...is no longer. That state no longer exists. We've done moved past it.

The only way that you could travel backwards in time is to somehow re-set...rewind...all matter and energy in the universe to the place and state that it was in at that point in previous time that you want to get to...yet not affect yourself at all. And of course that just ain't gonna happen. In other words, you'd have to remake or recreate everything the way that it was before, but stay the same yourself. And that's just a weird notion automatically.

Why do we "remember" the past, but not the future? Because however things were in the past...actually WERE. Whatever's gonna happen in the future...hasn't yet happened. The previous state of things in the past...previous events, etc...left consequences. Results. Of some kind or another. For our brains, it's "memories". For records that we keep in books, an event caused us to write something down about it...and it's that simple. Whatever is going to happen in the future...hasn't happened yet so it can't have any kind of cause-and-effect results. No evidence. No memory. No record.

Ok that's it. This is officially the end of this post.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/26/2018 7:32:34 AM
It wasn't jibber jabber, that made complete sense and i understand (maybe for the first time) why it's deemed not possible to travel backwards. Although i did understand most of that anyway but you've related it time travel and helped me make sense of it myself.

I don't think i will understand quantum time because it relates to gravity, i understand some quantum mechanics though but definitely not that. Even relativity is easy to understand on a basic level but everything else not so much.

Thanks for the very explanatory reply.
Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/26/2018 12:57:59 PM

It wasn't jibber jabber, that made complete sense and i understand

Oh for pete's sake...that may be the first time I got a response like that in here when explaining that.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/26/2018 3:59:45 PM
Lol. I know about entropy and disorder. And how time is experienced as linear. You tied everything up so that it made sense when applied to travelling in time.
:)
Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 6/24/2018 8:37:09 AM
Ran across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1WfFkp4puw

It's a decent explanation of my understanding. However, towards the end, when it starts talking about different "nows" and then that all of time...all of the past and future...already and always exists and are there "fixed", it seems to me that it's a linguistic trick that they allow in; that they lose grasp of their metaphorical model and that metaphorical model breaks down. But then I don't know as much physics as they do.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 6/24/2018 3:34:27 PM
Thanks for posting that video, i have seen it before but at a time when i didn't understand it.

Yeah that bit at the end seems to be a headfk if you take it explicitly but i think they're saying (because of the slices of bread thing) that if the alien was to travel forward or backwards they could reach any of the nows that exist, then this means all of your past nows and future nows exist simultaneously depending on where you are in space and which direction you are traveling? This video ties up nicely how we could use a telescope from really far away and see dinosaurs, now that i understand it. I wouldn't know how to apply maths to this concept but i get it now.
 MysticTouch
Joined: 4/9/2018
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 6/25/2018 12:15:56 AM
Time travel can encompass many ares,such as Astral Projection, Lucid dreaming etc. If there were true time travel it could be an awakening of sorts into a past live.:modhammer:
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 6/25/2018 1:30:27 AM
I found a good channel on youtube, it had all sorts of vids and one even explained the higgs boson and what fields actually are but it also had this video about time travel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQhNS3u6f5Q

I still wouldn't get the maths but that vid goes into more detail about how now exists everywhere and how traveling forward in time is possible, he also mentioned we could only travel back to the time when the first time machine was made (which i personally don't believe is the only possibility).
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
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Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 8/2/2018 12:39:36 AM

This is also why backwards time travel isn't possible. It's a totally different kind of thing. It's not simply a "reverse" or "opposite" concept as forwards time travel.

I agree. Time "ticking" -- or shall I say things happening -- happen at different rates/speeds. But this in no way implies that backward time travel is possible the way one wants it.

At best, on the quantum level, certain particles could be made to go back in time in a certain way, possibly? That doesn't at all imply you (mass) could ever. I think most people don't like the fact that the universe has structure & rules to it for they themselves dream of.
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