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 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 1
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Not looking for hookups anymorePage 1 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
I've only started to notice this is the past couple of years, but loads of women are stating that they aren't looking for hookups anymore, that they had one night stands when they were young but now want a relationship.

Sometimes it's because they've been treated badly and guys have lied to them so they now want to make sure a guy is really interested in something long term.

Trouble is, I find this really off putting. Hard to put my finger on exactly what bothers me, whether it feels like I'm being punished for other men's dishonesty or that I'm being used because the kind of guys these women used to go for don't have decent jobs or something and so they're not really interested in me for who I am...

To me it seems self-defeating, because taking this stance (and many other similar negative comments I've seen on profiles) would only seem to chase off the kind of men they claim to want to meet? Given that men on the whole prefer younger women, it seems doubly strange that women would choose to make themselves less available when they're in their 30s. Personally, I don't mind what approach women take, everyone is free to choose what they want for themselves - it's the in-authenticity, for want of a better word, that makes me uncertain what's really going on. For example, I got chatting to one woman (as friend, so I know it's not just me) who was telling me what kind of guy she liked, who the next week slept with someone who was in nearly every way the opposite of what she described!

Wondering if anyone else has noticed this, or has done this? How has it worked out? Is it dishonesty or are people just incredibly bad at knowing what they really want - are these the same thing in a moral/spiritual sense, self-denial?
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 2
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/21/2018 7:43:05 PM

Wondering if anyone else has noticed this,


Absolutely.


To me it seems self-defeating


For most, it is.
So many of them grow up with the Disney dream in their heads, and then they make the worst choices possible to make that dream come true. If they even can.
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 3
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/21/2018 10:34:03 PM

Disney dream in their heads


Funny you say that, I've thought on many occasion that the problem is that they want to find prince charming but don't understand that they need to kiss a frog to get him - reminds me of a linkedin post I saw about this woman who was asking how she could find a rich man, it seems to me that a lot of highly successful wealthy men have got that way because of the love of a woman they met before they had the money.

It's obviously impossible to compete on the prince charming scale with someone who's lying, but only needs to keep up the pretense long enough to get a woman into bed, so how do guys looking for relationship filter out women who are going to fall for this and thus waste your time? What other signs (red flags) do people look for in profiles?
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 4
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/22/2018 8:12:04 AM
if their profile is more about what they don't want, extreme negativity or has unrealistic expectations, I move on.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 5
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Posted: 8/22/2018 10:47:16 AM
Dude what's your problem?
Am I wrong here or are you basically saying you have an issue with women that want to be cautious as they have been lied to and manipulated by men?
How exactly is it our fault if men lie to us and manipulate us when we are none the wiser that that is their nature?
You're essentially victim blaming. Wake up
 siisaa
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 6
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/22/2018 11:05:43 AM
To me it seems pointless to have that disclaimer on their profiles, like it's going to stop poon-hounds from contacting them? LOL.

One of the pitfalls of being a single woman in the West is believing you can ride the c0ck carousel all through your 20s (i.e. a woman's prime dating & mating years) and blindly expect that when you disembark, eligible, high-quality marriage-minded men will still want you.


How exactly is it our fault if men lie to us and manipulate us when we are none the wiser that that is their nature?


I can understand if that happens once or twice (getting pumped & dumped) but if it's pattern, not saying it is with you as I don't know your story, then you're partly to blame. I'm not big on being a victim but rather taking responsibility over one's poor choices & faulty judgment of character. I did my fair share of online dating and never got nailed & bailed. I was more selective on who I slept with though.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 7
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Posted: 8/22/2018 11:54:55 AM

One of the pitfalls of being a single woman in the West is believing you can ride the c0ck carousel all through your 20s (i.e. a woman's prime dating & mating years) and blindly expect that when you disembark, eligible, high-quality marriage-minded men will still want you.


It's one thing to buy a well maintained used car and it's another thing to buy one that's been ridden hard over many speed bumps...
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 8
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Posted: 8/22/2018 12:37:25 PM

Dude what's your problem?


I don't think that question was meant in a constructive way so I won't answer.


Am I wrong here or are you basically saying you have an issue with women that want to be cautious as they have been lied to and manipulated by men?


You're wrong.
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 9
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Posted: 8/22/2018 2:15:20 PM

taking responsibility over one's poor choices & faulty judgment of character


Yes, there's no acknowledgement of how a guy might feel about being asked to wait knowing your history and the risk that the women hasn't changed but is instead disinterested or using you, which would seem more likely given an extended pattern of behaviour.

Of course I must reflect that I am most likely displaying faulty judgement of character as well. I've noticed that you can write a lot of careful, personalised messages and get no replies, but insult a woman and she'll respond straight away. I'm not in the habit of deliberately being offensive but sometimes jokes don't come across the way I intended - if guys want attention from women, you have to ask yourself what kind of behaviour it is they are rewarding.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 10
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Posted: 8/22/2018 2:28:00 PM
Ever see the tv show "Cheers"? The waitress, Carla, said it best. "Guys like Sam suck all of the juice out of them and toss the shriveled husks to guys like Frazier."

These women are bluntly stating that now that there is nothing left of them; they are ready to give up sex, get fatter and more disagreeable on your dime. It is disconcerting but that has been going on for a long time now. The only real difference is that individuals can advertise it more easily.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 11
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Posted: 8/22/2018 3:11:11 PM

Trouble is, I find this really off putting. Hard to put my finger on exactly what bothers me, whether it feels like I'm being punished for other men's dishonesty or that I'm being used because the kind of guys these women used to go for don't have decent jobs or something and so they're not really interested in me for who I am...


There's something about your posts that I find off putting but, like you, I am finding it hard to put my finger on exactly what bothers me about it.

It seems that you're complaining that because women have had their (for lack of a better term) bad-boy flings or problems with alpha-a**es , they no longer jump into bed with you for a hookup. You seem to consider this 'inauthentic' because they've had prior flings that didn't work out?

I doubt if it's dishonesty.


It's obviously impossible to compete on the prince charming scale with someone who's lying, but only needs to keep up the pretense long enough to get a woman into bed, so how do guys looking for relationship filter out women who are going to fall for this and thus waste your time? What other signs (red flags) do people look for in profiles?

Hmm, I'd do a forum search for 'red flags'.
I'd also not try to filter out women who fall for lies... a lot of people do.
Is your situation that you're looking for a woman who has never had a bad experience with a man? I doubt you're going to find one.



Dude what's your problem?

I don't think that question was meant in a constructive way so I won't answer.

It may not be meant in a constructive way, but I'll ask again - slightly differently.
What is the problem that you wish to discuss.
You seem to be complaining that women fall for men who lie and (slightly imply) that you are having more problems meeting women because of this. Have I got that correct?



Am I wrong here or are you basically saying you have an issue with women that want to be cautious as they have been lied to and manipulated by men?

You're wrong.

So, what is the issue you are bringing to this forum?


Yes, there's no acknowledgement of how a guy might feel about being asked to wait knowing your history and the risk that the women hasn't changed but is instead disinterested or using you, which would seem more likely given an extended pattern of behaviour.

I don't get this. Asking a guy to wait for what? A date? Sex? Marriage? If the woman hasn't changed, then she won't be interested in you unless you lie and behave like all the previous jerks she dated. Is that what you want?


Of course I must reflect that I am most likely displaying faulty judgement of character as well. I've noticed that you can write a lot of careful, personalised messages and get no replies, but insult a woman and she'll respond straight away. I'm not in the habit of deliberately being offensive but sometimes jokes don't come across the way I intended - if guys want attention from women, you have to ask yourself what kind of behaviour it is they are rewarding.

Everyone displays faulty judgement at times.
As for rewarding bad behavior... if a scathing email because you (the generic you, not you personally) were offensive is what you consider the attention you want from a woman then I gotta say that your bar isn't very high.

ETA: Oh, wait. Is this a 'nice guy' diatribe? On the order of 'girls only want to date jerks and us nice guys languish'?
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 12
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/23/2018 3:05:25 AM

ETA: Oh, wait. Is this a 'nice guy' diatribe? On the order of 'girls only want to date jerks and us nice guys languish'?


Ha, I think you've got me there!


offensive is what you consider the attention you want from a woman then I gotta say that your bar isn't very high


You are right again, seems it's best just not responding in that case because it's not going to go anywhere other than a pointless argument. I have in the past attempted to explain the miscommunication but if someone's already assumed the worst of you it's futile.


I doubt if it's dishonesty.


Yeah it could be that I've interpreted some things as being more intentional than they are and that's what's bothered me. Perhaps if I tried to be more understanding then I might see it differently. Reminds of a trick prosecutes use in court, by showing video replays in slow motion, so you can see more clearly what's happening, it gives the impression that people's actions were much more deliberate than if viewing everything at real speed as the events unfolded.


You seem to be complaining that women fall for men who lie and (slightly imply) that you are having more problems meeting women because of this. Have I got that correct?


So having given this some thought, I think there are 2 separate issues that I've mixed up in my head. 1) Some who's chosen to change because they want to settle down and so are pursuing a different type of person than they would have. 2) Those who've been hurt and are trying not to get hurt again.

The comments from other posters have addressed some of the issues around these.


There's something about your posts that I find off putting but, like you, I am finding it hard to put my finger on exactly what bothers me about it


Not sure if this was genuine or meant sarcastically? Again, I think I was getting confused between two separate things. Easy to sound a little off if you're not sure what it is you're trying to say or why you're feeling a certain way, wouldn't you agree?


On the order of 'girls only want to date jerks and us nice guys languish'?


Worth finishing on this again. I don't agree with these sentiment, although it is a trap that's easy to fall into. I think how nice you are, or not, doesn't have a lot to do with attraction. If you're only nice because you have little else to offer then it comes across as needy, however, you can also be nice because you are secure and successful in your life. So I would say if someone is attracted to guys who also tend to be jerks, but not because they are jerks, then they won't be attracted to other types of guys that might happen to be nice for one reason or another, but because they've been hurt they think that's what they want.

Not sure how well I explained it - take for example confidence, it could be confidence that is the attractive trait and that happens to be more true of people who tend to be jerks than nice guys, but isn't directly related to either.

Take that as a hypothesis, would you agree with it?

How would you suggest guys avoid falling into the "nice guy" trap when things aren't going well? I don't think anyone likes to feel like they're being used, whether it's women for sex, or men for emotional support. In a, admittedly twisted way, I've come to see sex as a sign that I'm not being used, it signals the attraction is real and that she's not just after some attention following a bad relationship. Yes, I know that's messed up before you ask lol
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 13
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Posted: 8/23/2018 8:57:19 AM
Yes, all those negative statements and rantings in profiles turn people off.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 14
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Posted: 8/23/2018 10:42:15 AM

How exactly is it our fault if men lie to us and manipulate us when we are none the wiser that that is their nature?


How exactly are you none the wiser that some people lie and manipulate other people?
Were you raised by wolves in the forest?
Or dingoes in the outback?
Did no one ever lie to you about anything while you were growing up?
Do you automatically believe everything everyone tells you about everything in your everyday life?
You decide on your unshakeable boundaries and you stick with them, no matter what anyone says.

Definition of unshakeable- (of a belief, feeling, or opinion) strongly felt and unable to be changed.
 flowersinthelake
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 15
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Posted: 8/24/2018 6:01:20 AM

It's one thing to buy a well maintained used car and it's another thing to buy one that's been ridden hard over many speed bumps...


That's my opinion on some middle-aged men. By the time they're in their fifties, they have every walking muff they could snag around the globe, are raising preschool kids, and complain that they are broke.
Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/24/2018 7:33:22 AM

Yes, all those negative statements and rantings in profiles turn people off.


Mr. OP can just bypass any profile that offends him.

Or they can all consult with him first as to how to write write a worthy of him profile.

HELL NO.
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 17
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Posted: 8/24/2018 7:59:34 AM

Mr. OP can just bypass any profile that offends him


Thanks for your response. It's not that I'm offended, I've just had some bad experiences and was wondering if I can do anything differently myself to improve things in the future. Bypassing profiles that make negative comments seems to be the most sensible suggestion as that's something that I can do and which doesn't unrealistically expect other people to change for me, which I think is your second sentiment that I totally agree with. I will also look out for women who say they want to take it slow but are then very flirtatious.

FYI, I did figure out what was going on and feel much calmer now :)

In short, I was making some of the very same mistakes that I was seeing in women's profiles, just a kind of male version of it, and needing to take responsibility for my part in where things were going wrong. As said above, once or twice and that's bad luck, but at some point you have to ask yourself if you're doing something that's bringing trouble on yourself. I know most of the people out there, men and women, are just trying to get on with life and meet someone, so I am going to learn my lessons and move on with a clean slate.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 18
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Posted: 8/24/2018 2:51:11 PM

So having given this some thought, I think there are 2 separate issues that I've mixed up in my head. 1) Some who's chosen to change because they want to settle down and so are pursuing a different type of person than they would have. 2) Those who've been hurt and are trying not to get hurt again.

And those who have been hurt and have decided on revenge or really high walls surrounding their hearts so you have to do a lot of work to reach them...

What's that' quote from The Naked City... there are eight million stories in the naked city and this has been one of them.
Yeah, dating is like that - no two people are the same even if they tend to act similar. Or they could have almost identical experiences and react differently.


How would you suggest guys avoid falling into the "nice guy" trap when things aren't going well?

Have your own boundaries firm in your mind or, as the ancient Greeks said, "Know thyself." The did say a lot of other things, but it's all in Greek...
For example:
I will buy lunch but I won't take her to the most expensive place around.
I will be a gentleman and not expect sex but I will go in for a kiss (if I like her).
If I make an error, I will apologize - once - then not mention it again.
If I destroy something of hers, I will replace or repair it.
If I don't like her, I will let her know face-to-face.
If I notice the she is acting like she is not having an enjoyable time, then I will comment on it and if she says she isn't feeling any 'chemistry' or she gets the 'emergency call', then I will ask if she wishes to cut the date short, needs anything that can be easily provided (i.e. a ride, escort to her car) and let it go. Text the next morning saying, "I'm sorry you didn't have an enjoyable time." Maybe a week or two later (if you like her or think she might be great for a friend) you can text with 'a group of my friends - men and women - and I are going to ... if you'd like to come along. It is pay for yourself."
If she starts on a diatribe about her ex-anything or how hard life is, deflect the conversation, divert the conversation and if she insists on talking about nothing but this... then cut the date short. "I'm sorry that happened to you, but I'm not interested in all the terrible men you've met in the past."

Take each date as it comes.
Or maybe I should say enjoy each date with no expectations.


I've come to see sex as a sign that I'm not being used, it signals the attraction is real and that she's not just after some attention following a bad relationship. Yes, I know that's messed up before you ask lol

Just be careful because people can use you even if they have sex with you.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 19
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Posted: 8/24/2018 10:50:59 PM
I think what has happened is women often hookup with a guy hoping it will develop into something more but after trying it a few times, they realize hookups don't work. Most women want relationships but many women will lie to a guy or to themselves that they just want something casual.
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 20
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Not looking for hookups anymore
Posted: 8/25/2018 12:55:14 AM

If she starts on a diatribe about her ex-anything or how hard life is, deflect the conversation, divert the conversation and if she insists on talking about nothing but this... then cut the date short


There's one date I had that I recognised afterwards that I should have just got up and walked out from, I felt pretty bad afterwards! I was essentially there as a free therapist and at the end of it she told me my hair wasn't long enough for her. Met IRL so can't blame online dating for that. lol A sensible mature discussion about someone's sexual history I would think was ok if it's her intention to have sex with you, but not otherwise.

I would agree whole heartedly with everything in that list. Shame I've learnt most of it through mistakes, where have you been? lol
What's strange is that I hadn't noticed the need so much for this type of advice when I was younger.

One explanation would be I was so clueless I didn't even notice if someone was treating me badly, but on balance it might have more to do with the fact I spent a lot of time working abroad in different cultures. One aspect of not fully understanding the local language and customs is that lots of things go over your head and you get used to it, so dating isn't any exception.

I did really notice a difference coming back to western cultures though, whereas I could quite easily go and start chatting to just about anyone with ease (language barrier excepted), returning to the UK I found that your typical stranger could be quite hostile in comparison.

I'd say that the way some women and men treat each in the west creates a downward spiral, women blame men, men blame women - that's what I really wanted this thread to be about, how honest people of both sexes can escape mutually assured destruction because of the minority going around making dating a nightmare for everyone else. (Didn't do a great job getting that across admittedly)


I think what has happened is women often hookup with a guy hoping it will develop into something more but after trying it a few times, they realize hookups don't work. Most women want relationships but many women will lie to a guy or to themselves that they just want something casual.


No doubt this does happen. I'd say a lot of relationship problems are caused by doing one thing to get something else, whatever those things may be. Promising a relationship to get sex, or having sex to get a relationship are just two examples. In Buddhist philosophy there is an emphasis on Right Speech, even if your intentions are good, dishonesty rarely ends well. You've got more chance of noticing someone is lying to you than knowing why they are lying, even if it's not conscious, that instinct that something isn't right will make me extremely defensive if I'm emotionally invested in a situation.

Perhaps it is an oddity for me that a couple of my better relationships started from hookups, where we both wanted a relationship but neither of us had said so - both people I'd met IRL incidentally. While some my worst experiences have been when I've spent a long time getting to know someone online and then been ghosted because, despite being too busy to meet, they'd somehow managed to meet someone else. Getting older I find there are fewer opportunities to meet single women IRL and so am using online dating more, perhaps attributing to the increase in problems. That said, there are examples that have gone the other way too, good online experiences and awful real-life meetings.

Breaking it down further:

1) Women who used to hookup and now want a relationship
a) Those that are sincere and making an effort to change
b) Those that think they want a relationship, maybe just because they've turned 30, but they don't - lack of self-knowledge
b) Those that assume a guy should be ok with it and get outraged when they object - perhaps wanting to continue sleeping around and cheating on some poor sap who pays the bills
2) Women who always (mostly) wanted relationships but have been lied to
a) Those that learned from their mistakes and have moved on, and are now more cautious
b) Those that are learning but perhaps aren't yet emotionally ready for a new relationship, overly cautious, requiring a lot of effort with a high risk of the relationship failing
c) Those that blame men, haven't learned, and think any man if a fair target for their revenge
3) Women who are being dishonest in other ways
a) Those that have good intentions that can lead them down a bad path ("white" lies), e.g. thinking that sleeping with a guy will make him like you, so saying one thing when you want another
b) Those that are playing mind games, with various levels of self-awareness about what they're up to e.g Rapo http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/rapo/ (see also "kick-me"). These rely on what's explicitly said and what's implied being at odds (maybe through body language, flirting, revealing past promiscuity), so there's always the defense that they haven't done anything wrong, yet both parties are (at least somewhat) aware that something else was going on - they can be dangerous and need to be avoid at all costs, tempting though it is, these games can't be "won" if they're being played on you.

The difficulty is knowing which category(s) someone falls into and responding appropriately; and I'm sure I could rewrite this to create something similar for men.

Some of the ways this might be stated in a profile:
* I want a relationship
* I don't want hookups
* I'm not into hookups anymore

My suggestion, would be to write a profile positively for the person you do want to meet, and not for the people that you don't want to meet. That "anymore" at the end makes a big difference though.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 21
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Posted: 8/25/2018 1:04:21 AM
What's wrong with writing they don't want hookups if they don't want hookups?
It's just stating they are not interested in men looking for that.
I don't get your issue with it. You don't explain it very well.
Unless your issue is that you want hookups and them saying they don't want hookups means you lost your chance? lol
 Woodrock
Joined: 8/1/2018
Msg: 22
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Posted: 8/25/2018 1:26:48 AM

What's wrong with writing they don't want hookups if they don't want hookups?


It was just a suggestion, but I think I explained quite clearly that I felt that a positively framed profile would be more successful, based on what other people have also said.


Unless your issue is that you want hookups and them saying they don't want hookups means you lost your chance?


No, it seems you've completely misunderstood everything I've been saying about honesty. If I wanted a hookup I would say so, then you can get an honest reply and you don't waste anyone's time or hurt anyone's feelings. If someone has stated clearly and honestly what they want on their profile then that's a good thing, you know where you stand. Hookups are easy, you're not investing time, energy, and emotion into them the same way you would if you wanted a relationship.

From my original post:


Personally, I don't mind what approach women take, everyone is free to choose what they want for themselves
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 23
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Posted: 8/25/2018 3:19:37 AM
Every man needs to draw his own line in the sand. Everyone makes mistakes and I am a big believer in second chances. However, a woman's second man was her second chance. A third, fourth, fifth, twenty-fifth and so forth indicates that she is severely lacking in some way. It is possible for a woman to have multiple relationships and not be damaged but don't count on it. At least inquire.

Another little theory:
Men aren't after casual sex with women. Most often, a man will dump a woman when casual sex is all that she has to offer. Input from the guys please.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 24
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Posted: 8/25/2018 3:50:52 AM
I still don't get what the actual issue is after reading all these posts.
What is the exact behaviour women are doing that is the issue?
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 25
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Posted: 8/25/2018 3:53:04 AM
The profile is not the place to discuss your sexual history. It should not be discussed at all except with your doctor. No class, bottom feeder women, ugh.
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