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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 1
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or failsPage 1 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
One of the more controversial ideas therapists are now suggesting is that men need to do more of the "emotional labor" in a relationship--the work that goes into sustaining love, which usually falls to women. "What men do in a relationship is, by a large margin, the crucial factor that separates a great relationship from a failed one," writes Gottman in his new book, The Man's Guide to Women. "This doesn't mean that a woman doesn't need to do her part, but the data proves that a man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship succeeds or fails."

Men are beginning to step up at home and value work-life balance almost as much as women. But recent scholarship has reinforced the value of old-school habits too--having family dinner and saying thank you actually make a difference.

http://time.com/4354770/how-to-stay-married/
 Noftheborder
Joined: 10/4/2018
Msg: 2
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 10:45:18 AM
I think that's too simplistic. There are far too many variables that go into a relationship, not the least of which is people getting into one with the wrong person in the first place. There's nothing like dating a person to actually *gasp* get to know them for an extended period of time before falling into a full blown "relationship" and all that entails. This is where you actually learn to communicate with each other, not after moving in together and having kids, etc. Perhaps it's a case of women being too emotional and dramatic in a lot of cases. In some cases it's the men being too emotional; after all, what's more emotional than physically abusing a partner (and yes, some women are physically abusive as well - but that's also part of the "emotional"). Both partners aren't immune to being verbally abusive. Then you have finances, past relationships, children from past relationships, interfering family members, and the list goes on. As I said, to name men's actions as a "key" variable is far too simplistic, and frankly, rather discriminatory.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 3
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 11:40:06 AM
Not a bad read, although I do disagree with some of what they say.


Marriage is the most basic and intimate of our social institutions, but also the one most subject to shifts in cultural, technological and economic forces, many of which have made single life a completely viable and attractive proposition.



Lifetime monogamy, as many have pointed out, is not a natural state. Very few animals mate for life, and most of those that do are either birds or really ugly (Malagasy giant rat, anyone?). One theory as to why humans took to monogamy is that it strengthens societies by reducing competition among males.

But natural and worthwhile are not the same things. Reading isn't a natural thing to do. Neither is painting, snowboarding nor coding. Nobody suggests we abandon any of those. Monogamy also has a certain energy-saving appeal: it saves humans from wasting time and effort on constantly hunting out new mates or recovering from betrayals by current ones.



A 2015 study found that sex once a week was the optimum amount for maximizing marital happiness. The Canadian researchers who analyzed data from three different studies found that sex played an even bigger role than money in happiness. The difference in life satisfaction between couples who had sex once a week and those who had it less than once a month was bigger than the difference between those who had an annual income of $50,000 to $75,000 and those who had an annual income between $15,000 and $25,000.

Once a week versus once a month? Those are my two choices? Sheesh!


A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 12:47:44 PM
i didn't have the time to read that article, but i wonder if it mentions the change in roles, ie, the husband being the breadwinner who must go out and brave the world--and of course, put on a strong front to do so. also, if a man does get more touchy-feeley, what happens to the women who desire a "big galoot" of a husband to change? :)
 Carnival_Fishing
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 5
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 1:32:27 PM
Does this mean a relationship shouldn't be 50/50? But instead, 60/40/, 70/30, or 67.43729/32.56271?
I call BS on studies that say the way to make a relationship almost guaranteed to work is to follow rules XYZ, which in many cases is just someone's opinion, and forget relying on common sense and spending time to get to know someone, before going to another level.

No two people are exactly alike, and each person has different life experiences that shape who they are today, so what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for someone else. If a guy is married to a nag, he's already doing the brunt of the emotional labor.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 6
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 1:35:05 PM
A good relationship is always at least 95/95. (I'm granting some leeway for bad days).
 Natey2
Joined: 7/4/2011
Msg: 7
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 3:00:58 PM

A 2015 study found that sex once a week was the optimum amount for maximizing marital happiness.


Was this for Canadians?
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 8
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 3:05:11 PM
Once again, it's all the man's fault.

I could watch Dr. Phil, and find out the same thing. I've said it before, I'll say it again. "If a man wants a successful relationship/ marriage. he has to give all of his interests the toss." He has to cater to the woman. I've heard this saying to death also-" If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." That one makes me cringe. Then my mind wanders back to when I was married. Just the meals I had to force myself to eat was bad enough. When I'd look forward to maybe one meal a week, (On a good week) that's when I decided that eating wasn't all that important. And once I seperated from her, I found my alcohol intake dropped to zero.

Meah, I'll stay single.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 9
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 5:27:54 PM

MORE of the emotional labor in a relationship


*** In my humble opinion, one of the main reasons why so many marriages / relationships go awry, is because it is so easy to do ( more opportunities to find another ) & life itself is easier ( in general ) There is no consequence for bad behavior, both can up & leave anytime they wish. But in the same vein, I am not saying that people should stay together no matter what but, that separating should be a WELL thought out decision.

... Seems ( in general ) neither men nor women really " need " one another to earn & live a decent life, as in the past. So what has been eliminated in some cases, is a couple striving to make ends meet & figuring out how to overcome lifes struggles together. In past days, a couple had to overcome all kinds of situations, problems and hurdles TOGETHER. This made each individual a stronger person & bonded the relationship together.

... ^^^ This not only strengthened the relationship, but strengthened each individual ~ it also formed society into a more cohesive, effective & working unit.

... To sum it up, I might say > we better be careful of trying to change, either a man or womans natural attributions. Not to say we shouldn't fine tune a few items here and there but ~ let us not, turn men into women & vice versa.

heart / sun
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 10
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 5:38:28 PM
^^

...Wouldn't ya just know it ??? col - a song leaps into this fine wittle protoplasmic sweet lil' bwain o' mine !

* lyrics ~ " All you pretty women, stand in line ..
................ I can make love to you, in an hours time "
................ Cause I'm a Man, I spell M - A - N " ... ( a man !!! )

I'M A MAN by the Yardbirds ( courtesy of Bo Diddley )
> turn it up ^

below ...
> well said Rumours ~~~~~ Rumours ~~~~~ Rumours ~~~~~ Rumours ~~~~~ < col
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 11
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 5:39:56 PM
I don't believe in studies, theories or books.
I had a bad marriage and a good marriage.
I was the common denominator in both with two totally different type of men.
People need to choose better before marrying....imo.

Funny….when a person is treated with mutual respect/love/dignity they probably will get it back.
Everyone wins!!
Find the one you love....oh ffs....
backcreek will half to do all the squiqqly lines now.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 12
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/26/2018 6:10:12 PM
This sounds more like whining.

Women want to feel empowered to take over traditional male roles like Head of Household, Breadwinner and other Alpha decision making and status marks. Good for them. Just keep in mind, doing such doesn't mean you can force a guy to take over the bulk of the beta emotions and carry FEELINGS and conversations the way women have genetically for a millennia. Guys can't reprogram themselves to talk non-stop on the phone for hours on end, cry during kleenex commercials, spend way too much time deciding where the sofa goes, and feel a mad compulsion to buy automotive accessories simply because they are "ON SALE". Guys can change diapers and wash dishes and fold laundry, to be sure - those household tasks can - and should - be interchangeable - but the way men/women think, speak, and translate ideas is STILL a Mars/Venus kind of interaction. Expecting a guy to carry the load of household tasks is no big deal - but making him empathize what kind of 'feelings' you get once a month - you might as well be explaining it to the dog for all the good it will do. Understanding each other is still going to take a lot of effort, and reading stories like this should not give anyone an excuse to take a shortcut.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 13
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 4:07:15 AM
https://www.gottman.com/blog/emotionally-intelligent-husbands-key-lasting-marriage/

Quote from above source:
"When conflict happens, the key is to listen intently to your partner’s point of view, to let them know that you understand them, to ask them what they need, and to be willing to compromise. One way to do this is for each of you to identify your core needs and search, together, for where those needs overlap. Then you can find common ground upon which to make decisions together."

This doesn't in any way mean to be a doormat but from what I've observed, most relationships end because a man mentally checks out or he doesn't appear to appreciate what a woman does. A woman who leaves a man or cheats on him usually does so because he is emotionally unavailable to her or he fails to make her feel loved. I'm not saying every relationship ending is a guy's fault. On the contrary, there are many relationships where the woman is the emotionally unavailable one or unappreciative one; its just that its more common that the man is that person.

My 9-year-relationship ended because my ex never considered my feelings, never showed any real love for me, never appreciated me. He was/is a narcissist and no matter how much I tried to improve things, it didn't work because he had an inability to empathize with me. And the constant verbal abuse, name-calling, putdowns and ridiculing, were his way of trying to control the relationship. He had an affair because he wanted someone who he felt was easier to deal with, less demanding, who needed him. I didn't need him because I could not depend on him, his inability to keep a job and his inability to be nice to me made me lose a lot of respect for him. And a man needs respect. But respect is earned, not given.
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 4:41:14 AM

"When conflict happens, the key is to listen intently to your partner’s point of view, to let them know that you understand them, to ask them what they need, and to be willing to compromise. One way to do this is for each of you to identify your core needs and search, together, for where those needs overlap. Then you can find common ground upon which to make decisions together."


Seems like a whole pile of work for so little reward. Why not just stay single, then there is only one person to please?
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 15
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 6:51:33 AM
Ok guys, how many times have you been confronted by a woman, she starts talking about relationships, and in your mind, you're thinking "Oh Gawd! Not this AGAIN???"

Seems to be a common issue women have. I've never met one that didn't. Meet one, get to know them, and wait for that shoe to fall. It will, we know it. Reminds me of pop quizzes that we got in school, and we weren't prepared for it. I remember the looks on students when that happened. Good thing we weren't graded on the looks on our faces when that happened. Not so with women. Show one pained look at her, and you're cooked.

If women wanted to make men hide, THAT is the way.
 Carnival_Fishing
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 16
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 6:54:22 AM

Jstorm: My 9-year-relationship ended because my ex never considered my feelings, never showed any real love for me


I recall you saying in other posts, that you never loved him, and hoped you could eventually learn to love him. But your clock was ticking, and he was available, so you settled for him in order to have kids. Don't you think he could pick up on that? And if the relationship was that bad, why did you stick around for 9 years?
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:13:02 AM

Ok guys, how many times have you been confronted by a woman, she starts talking about relationships, and in your mind, you're thinking "Oh Gawd! Not this AGAIN???"

I won't speak for other women but I run into this with men, a lot. Perhaps its just that when you aren't really looking for a relationship, you tend to hear this more and focus on it. It's like nails on a chalkboard. Usually my cue to cut ties and get the feck out of Dodge.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 18
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:36:57 AM
"Ok guys, how many times have you been confronted by a woman, she starts talking about relationships, and in your mind, you're thinking "Oh Gawd! Not this AGAIN???""

I am a woman, and I feel the same way.

Fluffy people and their natterings make me shut them down.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 19
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 9:00:24 AM
Danimal:

Just keep in mind, doing such doesn't mean you can force a guy to take over the bulk of the beta emotions and carry FEELINGS and conversations the way women have genetically for a millennia. Guys can't reprogram themselves to talk non-stop on the phone for hours on end, cry during kleenex commercials, spend way too much time deciding where the sofa goes, and feel a mad compulsion to buy automotive accessories simply because they are "ON SALE".


Beg to differ. Hear me out on this one. Men always have and will continue to do their emotional part. Yes, women can demand those things that Danimal listed and men will fall all over themselves to deliver. Women don't demand those things but more on that later.

I remember watching news reports about the Nazi rally in Chancellorsville last year. I could barely tell the difference between that and a gay pride parade. Those faggots were the big scary Nazis? I wonder how they would have stood up with the real Nazis in the Battle of Stalingrad. That was me thinking. I was in the Navy when it was all male and worked as a meteorologist, the most male dominated profession according to the Department of Commerce. My dad thought I was a pvssy. He was an engineer by profession and he fought as an infantryman in Korea. My grandfather thought that my dad was a pvssy . He was an electrician who fought in World War I. Masculinity has been on a sliding scale for a very long time.

My grandfather was the way he was and my father is the way he is because that is what women of their generations wanted and needed from them. My grandmother totally needed an unshakable Rock of Gibraltar like my grandfather. My mother totally wanted an ambitious and dependable man like my father even if my grandfather thought him a sissy. An emotional quagmire was the last thing that my mother and grandmother needed in a man. My dad and granddad delivered what they needed.

Fast forward to today. Women used to look up to men like may father and grandfather. Starting with my generation, women have been looking down on men. They still look down on them but not with the outright hostility of the older women. In the early 20th century, masculine meant ability to survive the trenches in Europe. In the early 21st century, masculine means ability and willingness to fellate your own penis at a woman's command. The college SJW homos are the new macho. This is what women want and this is what men will deliver.
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 20
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 9:15:50 AM
OH Boy!
I am an older women and you were making some sense when you were explaining how men have changed...what you omitted was women have also changed......but then you went and spoiled it all by saying something stupid....at the end.

Women used to look up to men

I still do


This is what women want and this is what men will deliver.

Maybe...use some qualifiers....in your messages. There are still some of us that enjoy the opposite sex without using grandiose generalizations of all....

imo….some...not all...in my view....in my lifetime
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 21
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:34:20 AM

Ok guys, how many times have you been confronted by a woman, she starts talking about relationships, and in your mind, you're thinking "Oh Gawd! Not this AGAIN???"

Seems to be a common issue women have. I've never met one that didn't. Meet one, get to know them, and wait for that shoe to fall. It will, we know it. Reminds me of pop quizzes that we got in school, and we weren't prepared for it. I remember the looks on students when that happened. Good thing we weren't graded on the looks on our faces when that happened. Not so with women. Show one pained look at her, and you're cooked.


Your answer kind of really explains why you've had problems with relationships. You've never been able to understand how to respond to women. Its a problem some men have but not all. There's a reason many men are able to maintain good relationships and they don't need to sacrifice their own masculine qualities to do so. Most women are happy when they feel safe (from physical harm), secure (financially with a good roof over their head), appreciated (for what they bring to the table) and wanted (sexually and romantically). Romance is a big key to the whole thing in this day and age. And romance is not an effeminate quality. Romance has been a thing for a long time. Watch movies made 80 years ago and manly men took time to romance ladies via dancing with them and singing or giving them flowers or gifts. Today's men won't dance or sing or bring flowers because they think its sissy. In my job I work with the elderly and I deal with a lot of elderly couples who are happily married after 50, 60, 70 years. The common thing I see is that the couple danced a lot through their marriage. They have these polka dances at local halls with mostly senior citizens dancing and they broadcast them on Saturday nights on the public access channel. And when I work, those dances are on almost all my client's tvs, even the old men that live alone widowed or years, watch it. Now, dancing is a very interesting thing to look at because when dancing, it is the man who leads and controls the movement and the woman follows his lead. Dancing is intimate without having to talk about feelings yet it is very communicative.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 22
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:42:45 AM

Your answer kind of really explains why you've had problems with relationships. You've never been able to understand how to respond to women.


I've only had two long-term relationships. One was dating and marriage for close to fifteen years, the second lasted almost three years with a woman long-distance who had AD/HD and just became too unbearable over time. Everything else I have run into was pretty much a one-and-done date - a lot of snap decisions made in the first fifteen seconds, sometimes over the phone or even because of something I said in a text. I have tried to make it work with all kinds of train wrecks, and the bottom line that kept me around was the effort the WOMAN made to get to know me, to please, me, to try and make me happy. Even if their methods were seriously flawed, I understood the effort and stuck with it.

Sorry, but it is not always how men respond to women - it's how selfish women get after being taken advantage of - or being taken care of too well.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 23
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:45:24 AM
Stop trying to force a relationship with the wrong person...period. If you can't deal with the other person, look in a mirror, ask yourself what you are getting out of this, work on yourself, a person not a match for you, making choices are your job. You can spin your wheels for the rest of your life or you can take responsibility for why you are in a bad relationship. Do not have children when in a bad relationship.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 24
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:58:43 AM
I was responding to Purplerider and not you Danimal. And what I was saying had more to do with already established relationships and not the courting phase. In the courting phase you need to figure out what you bring to the table and use that but you also have to recognize which of the following 4 things would a woman be concerned you couldn't provide:

safety (from physical harm)
security (financially with a good roof over their head)
appreciation (for what they bring to the table)
the feeling of being wanted (sexually and romantically)
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 25
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 11:02:49 AM
@Dayna Simple....Concise and True....
It's all your choice whether you're a man or woman.
I also do think that most people when young are not experienced about life/wants or needs.
And the needs somewhat change as you mature and gain knowledge/experience of what you need or want. I fully admit, I had some magical illusions of what marriage would be like...it wasn't what I thought.

Some people just will never quit the blaming of others on their choices.
If you made a mistake....move on.
Simple as live and learn...imo.



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