Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Frontiering Space vs Earth?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 1
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth? Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Total Hypothetical question: Imagine we advanced, reducing population growth to sustainable regenerative status- and developed "space travel exploration and sustainable environments" in which all population, except that sustainable and regenerative, were moved to space habitats, would you want to be a member of the new space frontier(the unknown, unexperienced challenges) or would you choose to stay and pioneer with maintained knowledge and known struggles a basically vacant, known ecologically hostile changing earth, attempting to repopulate and maintain a truly controllable collaborative earth? (HYPOTHETICAL)!@!!!
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/16/2019 2:06:46 PM
.
.
... I think I would prefer to stay on ole terra firma here, although I BELIEVE mankind actually has a destiny ( pretty sure anyway, in my mind ) ... I am not the " lets experiment to the max, with our very lives type ". Although life on earth is a totally bizarre set of random, possibly " downer ' occurrences - I still like my chances of survival better ( & doing relatively splendiferous at present ) > while being on earth, so remaining would be my first & favorite choice ( if I have one, that is ) ...

... Existing on a more hostile planet or a metal satellite of some sort ( with nothing more then a made of plastic " pup " tent or some kind of dome ) ~ really has very little appeal for me. But THANK GOD there are those that are guided by science, and the desire to learn and actually DO more. They by example, will determine mankinds destiny - while paving our way towards, new discoveries in space !!!!

... heart / feet firmly planted on earth / sun ...
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 3
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/16/2019 6:03:38 PM
^^ yeah i too am kinda partial to old mother earth! lol I think we all determine "human destiny" earth heart-sunny mind
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 1:39:33 AM
It wouldn't be frontiering space -- but pretty much kicking it off on Mars. There's really no other place in "space" (our solar system) that'd be considered worth going to. If referring to traveling to other solar systems -- essentially, from a massive space station's POV (like the Enterprise) -- it's pretty much not going to happen ever.

Going to even just the nearest star, 25 trillion miles away -- would take way too long. Mine as well be talking about just living on a big space station floating in space feeding off solar energy. A massive space station going as fast as Juno, the current record-holder going 165,000 miles per hour -- would take over 17,000 YEARS to get to. But let's say this thing, which would be the size of a village and not of a sedan -- which would be sooo much harder to get sooo much more energy to get it up to speed -- breaks a predicted record in 2024 of 430k miles/hr and hits 500k miles/hr on average (speeding up, slowing down). That's still take over 5,700 YEARS.

I hate to be a downer, but, civilizations won't be camping out on huge space ships unless their intent is to stay "home" around their star. Which we may do in the far future (as well as terraforming Mars). As far as traveling to other stars? That's more shooting small packages we could get flying to return data for exploration to feed back.

Otherwise, I guess a more realistic sci-FAR-future question would be: Would you be willing to get on a big space ship that was self-sufficient, to fly to one of the nearest few stars to help seed human life elsewhere -- where you'd hibernate for Thousands of years, spend maybe a couple hundred years on just the ship (anti-aging would be invented) -- and go there to Terraform one of the planets? My answer is NO. I'd rather live in our solar system, and terraform Mars or live on a space station in our own solar system. :)
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 5
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 8:40:21 AM
^^^^ Ok, Alpha Centauri is 4.2 light years away....so the question is could we ever utilize a worm-hole to get there...is Warp Speed possible? If man survives for billions of years and his brain continues evolving...who knows what he will come up with:

https://www.thoughtco.com/is-warp-drive-possible-3072122
The Idea of Warp
However, our current understanding of the physics of how light travels does not preclude the possibility of space itself traveling at or beyond the speed of light. In fact, some people who have examined the problem claim that in the early universe, space-time expanded faster than the speed of light, if only for a very short interval. If that's true, a warp drive could take advantage of this loophole. It would use massive amounts of energy extracted from matter-antimatter annihilations in the "warp core" of the ship to encapsulate the starship in a bubble that "warps" the area around it. Space-time behind the vessel is expanded, while the space-time continuum is compressed in front. The net result is that the ship is pushed along as space-time expands and contracts around it.

Here's another way to think about how the warp drive works: the starship is effectively stationary relative to a local area of space-time. The ship itself isn't moving, but the fabric of the universe is moving and that carries the starship along with it. A happy byproduct of this is that the starship can get around such undesirable effects as time dilation and massive acceleration effects on the human body, which would really mess up the science fiction storylines.

Using warp drive would be different from traveling across the universe using wormholes. These are theoretical structures that allow spaceships to travel from one point to another by tunneling through hyperspace. Effectively, they would let ships take a shortcut since they remain bound to normal space-time.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 6
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 9:41:25 AM
This topic sounds like Star Trek.

The Enterprise is circling Uranus looking for Klingons...
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 7
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 3:07:24 PM
currently we are limited-as i said hypothetical-these advancements are not currently feasible within our current trajectory of science, economy, and proposed limited timeframe of humanity on earth-bleaching uranus increases visibility of klingons an enterprise worth trying ...apparently only back creek, ng, and i were willing to participate in the subject at hand.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 8
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 3:28:20 PM
I would jump at the chance to set up a community on a distant planet if not for the time involved. not so interested in spending my remaining days in cramped quarters so my great grand children can arrive in an obsolete spacecraft and fulfill someone elses dream.
 rednwhiterider
Joined: 6/23/2018
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 4:05:05 PM
I'd go. why not?

although inicia.... I did not know that was a thing.
but I do now.
and kindly do not thank you for that image.
wow. scarring. double wow.
pucker*

I'd love to be trapped in a flying box being thrown out into the biggest sea.
we all are going to die.
who wouldn't want it to be out of this qorld?
and yes I do mean "old world crayfish"

even if we had to defend ourselves with rocks instead of laser blasters....
I'd sign up.
rocks are probably safer anyways



edit: I bet astronauts are allowed one item from home.
I'd take a rock.


what would you take?
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 10
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 4:45:18 PM

I bet astronauts are allowed one item from home.
I'd take a rock.


what would you take?
I would take shim. you could practice on shim with you rock and when you got bored, we could tie it out like a dog. give it a small air tank, make some space popcorn and just enjoy the show.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 11
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/20/2019 6:44:14 PM
Inicia, they had a company not long ago signing people up for a one way trip to mars. They have long waiting list,so this is really not a hypothetical question...personally i believe these people are nuts

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/apply-now-one-way-trip-mars

The company was a scam but took in tens of millions before going bankrupt;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/21/2019 8:51:49 AM
sorry redwhite lol meant only as a sarcastic raspberry pucker to the lame star trek joke-not to scar.. i think rock and shim would do well here and probably never run low on supply-or get too cramped especially if alone with my rock and shim-sitting in the garden eating worms.. lol the company a scam that attracted wealthy nut jobs-verifying hypothetical basis of question-hypotheticals must scare the shit out of some.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/21/2019 1:15:06 PM

Ok, Alpha Centauri is 4.2 light years away

Which is Yuge. And still Yuge if you're talking about futuristic technology, especially with moving a massive structure even in the far future when you talk about feasibility. Hence you bringing up other ways to travel, which one can't help but to ponder, of course:

so the question is could we ever utilize a worm-hole to get there...is Warp Speed possible?

Worm holes and going warp speed are two entirely different things. First, going light (warp) speed is truly Impossible for anything with mass, and it's not really speed -- but speed relative to interacting with us. You can only accelerate close to it, although that takes too much feasible energy getting too close to it -- but sure, if there was a way to draw energy from the fabric of space itself of a limitless amount Feasibly in the future (most likely will not; but fantasy-land here), you could make it like going on boat from the US to Europe time. But not warp. And most likely this won't be feasible for a big starship.

Like the distance of even the nearest star -- our minds when we ponder this get a biased view that it's just "Real distant", as does speed of light when you're talking about accelerating an object, when it's far far more than what we can "warp" our heads around when feeling something out. You also have the practicality problem of a large object (or even small ones, but you could send a swarm of small things hoping a few get lucky) going not even remotely close to the speed of light but VERY VERY FAST that'd put any of our soon-to-be fastest stuff in the dust more than 100x over -- running into specs of dust or heaven forbid tiny pebbles or the like colliding with it having the effect of a bomb (F=MA).

Now, there is an idea about warp speed or going faster -- by changing space around said vehicle. You warp space around it, where basically it isn't In the fabric of space time, hence, not abiding by it's laws. There is nothing to suggest this is feasible whatsoever. But again, fantasy-land. As with a worm-hole, which is bending space time on top of itself from a far distance to you. All arrows, even in fantasy-land talk, point to not-going-to-happen, especially with mass surviving thru it, even if at all the Concept of bending space like that to create a worm-hole isn't breaking the laws of physics IF there were a means to feasibly execute it.

Which comes down this concept people overlook: The universe doesn't revolve around us, for feasibility to do what we want. Nothing suggests it. At all. We Know we'll be able to do some fantastic things in the future, of course! But the mindset that do anything we want and there Are No Limits To What Can Be Done By Us -- is pretty silly.

So the real thing about this futuristic exploration -- and with the help of AI and the like, we'll get there sooner than one would assume -- is knowing the Actual Limits. Not just not-breaking-laws-of-universe (which does not mean it can be done at all), and not just being theoretically possible (which does not mean it can be feasibly done at all), and not just being theoretically possible to be feasible (which does not mean it would be Worth being done at all) -- but to be feasible. It would be silly to say there aren't limits; but to some, to say that the feasible limits stop well beyond sci-fi fantasy -- that is almost like saying there is no heaven and when you die you die to folks who believe.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 14
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/21/2019 2:56:42 PM
^^^ I'm not a physicist so know only what I read, primarily in Scientific American. We all are familiar with Einsteins limitations on travel as fast as or faster than the speed of light requiring infinite mass..or whatever, what we don't really know to an absolute certainty is whether the laws of physics as we understand them are the same all over the Universe.

At any rate, there is a reason we have never heard from any of the probably millions of intelligent life forms living throughout the Universe, maybe throughout our own Galaxy...and that is they have the same limitations we have...they can't get here any more we can get to where they are.

Maybe some day though we will pick up their radio signals...that have been travelling through space for millions or billions of years, though I am not sure how far such a signal could travel before complete degradation.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/21/2019 5:45:06 PM
it is impossible k that being said in fantasy land where would you rather be? here or out there? that is the philosophy question surrounding the sci-fi fantasy of the impossible science advancement. don't worry it's not a contract..nobody's gonna whisk you to a galaxy far far away or desert/abandon you on earth. straight forward question nothing confusing..
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 16
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/22/2019 11:17:58 AM
Its hard to beat the beauty and compatibility of earth for man kind. Why would anybody realistically want to live on a hostile planet in another or even our solar system? Maybe to visit temporarily but for a lifetime? No thanks.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/22/2019 2:42:23 PM

^^^ I'm not a physicist so know only what I read, primarily in Scientific American.

To be fair, you don't have to be -- but at the same time, you can't take an article's author as the gospel truth of course, as others will say differently. I like that magazine and New Scientist. It's stuff looking into, no doubt. The point is, if one understands what they're getting at and how true it is -- and to read up on what other scientists say and what they point out in agreement or contrast, etc (as they do that as well).

We all are familiar with Einsteins limitations on travel as fast as or faster than the speed of light requiring infinite mass..or whatever, what we don't really know to an absolute certainty is whether the laws of physics as we understand them are the same all over the Universe.

There's nothing to indicate that the laws of physics/nature/universe change from one area to another, at all. Anything but the contrary. I think it's about what Else is there that allows exceptions / work-arounds, etc. due to other factors at play underneath it all. As far as US going faster than light -- no, that's about as definitive as anything else. But IS there a way we could Actually get from Point A to Point B, at the same time duration as traveling at the speed of light (which is INSTANT; no time elapsed)? Highly highly highly likely NOT. BUT, yes, it's worth looking into. It's a way of learning about the universe itself, if anything else. To see if something is at all Impossible, indirectly impossible (the laws don't stop it directly but getting to point X to do so is impossible), truly not feasible although technically not impossible, not at all feasible from a practical standpoint, technically feasible but not worth it due to X/Y/Z, feasible but probably not worth it, feasible and worth it at some point if we do other things, totally feasible, etc. We learn. It's great.

My point of view is a Debbie Downer to some, tho. A reminder that Everything isn't possible for Us to do. The universe does not revolve around us, we can see that. If there Are hidden ways for us to do what we want however we want as we unpeel the layers by learning, decade after decade -- nothing At All indicates that to be true; only the opposite. Instead, we learn what we can do, and whatever exceptions May exist (practical or not). So one is to be hasty, when looking at the bigger picture -- that underneath it all, there Are No Limits in the construct/rules of the universe that don't have a work-around for Our Own benefit.

We certainly can be in a situation with AI and advancement (coming in not too many decades to hit sky-high) -- where, shoot, no -- we can never go even real close to the speed of light due to practicality, and there are no work arounds (as all signs point to; and should be the default/expected POV)... and we're "stuck" basically in our solar system, although given eons of time we could send people to other star systems to colonize but there's no work around for communication and being in touch with them live by any means -- and the limitations on what we can and can't do aren't so glorifying.

At any rate, there is a reason we have never heard from any of the probably millions of intelligent life forms living throughout the Universe, maybe throughout our own Galaxy...and that is they have the same limitations we have...they can't get here any more we can get to where they are.

Yes, true. That's what I think, too. Most life, IMO, is going to be in fluid/water -- as that's where ours started. The stability of advanced life on land surface is much more hostile and requires a series of positives to do so. So that's one reason why life elsewhere isn't contacting us. Even if dolphins and the like were way smarter than us -- they're not in a 'world' to communicate with other solar systems, living in oceans.

Also -- our expectations for natural resources + not so chaotic are realistically only going to exist in the certain "band" of stars distant from the galaxy center. Not too far away (less natural resources beyond hydrogen & helium) and not too close (too chaotic; not enough time for advanced beings to flourish). Still, tons of stars -- but chances drop.

Then, you have Time. We live about 85 years currently. After many hundreds of thousands of years, it's been only about 100 years that homo sapiens have been "advanced" -- with knowledge about physics/nature. They could have hit us up in the far distant past -- and will again "soon" to them, but sh!t, that's going to be forever for us. Even if they have a ship that can go near speed of light -- where a light year only takes them a few days + they live a long time due to advancement -- we're not the center of the universe. They stopped by, and they'll come back to us, but we've been only advanced for SUCH a short period of time, and only able to pick up a signal Directed at us for about 100 years. Childs play in time, but inconvenient for us who want to meet & greet them.

So we shouldn't expect them to be visiting so conveniently to us. Say they had a hidden beacon left orbiting/observing earth that we haven't found and can't see (nor obviously looking for) -- that detects when we're advanced. Like the industrial age. Not much more than 100 years ago. It sends a signal to where they're at -- home planet or on a ship -- most likely NOT in our neighborhood. But let's say kinda close: Only 1,000 light years away. So they pick up on it 1,000 years from now. They immediately get in their ship and fly out here -- in only a few years of their time -- but it's going to be another 1,000 years till they get here.

that have been travelling through space for millions or billions of years, though I am not sure how far such a signal could travel before complete degradation.

For practicality, it'd have to be in our galaxy. And on our end of it within line of sight -- and it'd most likely have to be pretty powerful, so they're not going to do it to every place at all times. They'd probably have sensors along the way after visiting us in the past, where discreet observation modules would, upon realizing we were getting advanced (coal burning being picked up; radio signals generated from earth; etc) -- sending out to other floating stations, then to others, etc. Or maybe they have advanced ways of non-degredation. Either way, it'd take a while to alert them. Then it'd take something purposeful & powerful to send over to us -- which would take a LONG TIME to hit us.

Now, if lived to be 100,000 years and not 85 years -- well, then it wouldn't be such a downer for us. But we want it "now" before we ourselves die. :)
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/24/2019 12:18:46 PM
entertaining for some the implausible or perceived impossible indeed can be a downer- especially when/if the instant gratification mind-set is paired with such-understanding the realistic limitations sans entertaining the implausible-is clearly a logical rather than a depressing thought process-just "is what is".. ie stating "captain obvious" reality reaffirmation, and my often personal "captain obvious" stance brings great mirth and laughter !?
btw for any who misunderstood my hypothetical "leaving the earth so it could recover and be re-established to a life sustaining earth environment and population- which currently is on a trajectory of extreme chaotic hostility; in such, those left would be facing the vacated hostile earth environment VS moving to newly developed safe exterior habitat that we had Engineered! that is the big debbie downer hypothetical (we have no chance of accomplishing-nobody gets out alive. lol)
_the hypothetical was not leaving non - hostile earth for hostile exterior. btw an ancient concept of frontier concept is judaic "hei tzadi qof" (no way for me to represent the the alphabet for you tittles and strikes but those are the hebrew alphabet Characters ) prior the combined concepts were rarely utilized; however the combination indicates borders, cutting of or removing the thorn, or farthest borders,not necessarily hostility.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 19
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/24/2019 2:10:05 PM

btw for any who misunderstood my hypothetical "leaving the earth so it could recover and be re-established to a life sustaining earth environment and population- which currently is on a trajectory of extreme chaotic hostility; in such, those left would be facing the vacated hostile earth environment VS moving to newly developed safe exterior habitat that we had Engineered!

I think an answer to your question -- would you rather live on a (very massively large) space ship like the Enterprise, or live on a hostile Earth -- I guess it just depends on how pimped out the Enterprise was, and how bad Earth was at the time. :)

The only reason I could see Earth being "really bad" as living there would be hell beyond our control -- yet, have the technology to even make a massive ship like the Enterprise -- would be the Sun expanding and heating the Earth up. In which case, terraforming Mars (and Mars being warmer too at this point) would be I think people's 1st option by default.

But living on a ship the size of the Enterprise -- super massive -- with the technology travel large distances as fast & safe as a large large massive object could feasibly go.... much of our living experiences would be thru Virtual Reality which would be indistinguishable from actual reality. So living on a starship in the far future wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Going to another star system would be for scientific research, and if coming across a terraformable place for us -- great. Of course, we'd certainly have the technology at this point to modify our genes to breath an atmosphere that's like our own but currently harmful -- so we'd have more leeway on that front, too.

But IMO, we wouldn't be sending out a massive town-sized starship to explore other star systems (where most that time would be in-between stars) -- we'd be sending swarms of mini-bots going Super Fast (going so fast would kill some but not all when hitting a miniscule piece of matter), and sending info back to us. Which, we wouldn't get until generations later (but we'd be living much longer; but still). I think we'd just be living in Virtual Reality land for the most part. :)
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/24/2019 3:18:39 PM
i am not sure virtual reality could ever compete with reality; however, having experienced alternate conscious realities of an experienced reality; personally: Virtual Reality (VR)pimping might be a huge positive of choosing to leave for a space habitat-yet if the ability of such VR existed an "earth hell" could be pimped to make the tasks of rebuilding refreshing as equally enjoyable..
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 21
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/24/2019 3:25:04 PM

i am not sure virtual reality could ever compete with reality

I'm pretty sure it will -- outside knowing "this isn't Really THE reality" in the back of one's mind.

however, having experienced alternate conscious realities of an experienced reality personally

I think basically it'd be like putting you in another state of consciousness -- or essentially the same effect -- where you'd be interacting with a system others would link to as well. There wouldn't be an experiential difference, besides limits the system would set when interacting in this world (pain level being one of them). And of course different laws of physics to allow you to do cooler stuff possibly. But I think the mainstream would be having our rules/laws for the experience of "being home" so to speak.

Basically like the Holodeck in Star Trek Next Generation. You wouldn't know the difference. In fact, we could be in a simulation right now -- but technically, so what?
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/24/2019 6:31:25 PM

~ If I may be frank ? ~


... I'm of the opinion that most ALL lifeforms on earth > will be extinguished ( by one event form or another ) before we will visit the stars, sounds like all is lost but -

... We can though, combine deep space radio transmission with digital dna to be sent into the furthest reaches of space. I believe there will be the technology there ( if not now, eventually for sure ) to turn digital form, into viable life forms, who knows ?

... This is the thing though ? The picture I see here is the universe was roughly created 15 billion years ago, it was a massive explosion with s*hit going all over the place. It took quite sometime before " planets '' were ready for ANY kind of life. I think life was the reason for the big bang, but I believe it takes around 10 billion years maybe, before intelligent life ( and planetary systems ) can stabilize enough to be where we presently are. So therefore ? we may be the most advanced forms of life, throughout the entire universe.

... Whether this is the case or not, it is my belief that at some point - our digital dna will be able to be transformed into REAL , exact replica life forms. Well? you can call me crazy, but please don't call me > " late for dinner " ( col )
We have not yet discovered how to take digital dna & turn it into actually flesh and blood, so there may be no-one capable " right now "of doing it either .

... BUT, there will be eventually ~ and I don't think the digital dna is gonna ever degrade. I mean, we can send real dna out there, and we should. But it takes so long for a rocket or canister type thing to reach possible inhabited solar systems, radio waves might be the answer.

... Thank you for listening ! ( even if you are shaking your head & thinking > this dude is coo coo ! )


heart / digital dna / sun
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 23
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/25/2019 8:23:07 AM
^^^ Galaxies, stars, planets have been forming far earlier than you project, there are stars that formed within a few hundred million years of the big bang, and they have found planets they believe almost as old. If our sun is only 5 billion years old and the earth significantly younger, that means other intelligent life forms could have had a ten billion year head start or more over our own. Assuming they survived all of those years and kept evolving...who knows how far they have come.

But remember, our Universe is highly likely only one of an infinite number of universes...so in the multi-universal view, there are probably intelligent life forms that are infinitely older than our own...they could be Gods...maybe one of them or a number of them could be our God...its all speculation I suppose.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/25/2019 10:10:26 AM

there are probably intelligent life forms that are infinitely older then our own


...^ Thank you for replying sir, but I am not sure I can agree with you. In general, my thought is ~ if it took us ( planet and all ) to reach this stage of intelligence / science / industrial & societal evolvement , then it does not seem likely that there are beings that are " way " ahead of us. And yes, certainly the odds say there could be MANY planets throughout our " known " universe which " may " harbor forms of high intelligence.

... 15 billion years sounds like a great deal of time but - consider the utter mayhem of matter formation and human developmental history . Also think of > the huge amount of time and luck that is presented into OUR " goldilocks " scenario, needed for intelligent life to form & work together . I figure ( & what do I know? f-ing nothing really, besides being a dreamer ) it " did " take 5 billion years ( from the creation of our sun ) to get us to this point, therefor it follows in logic - the same applies to ALL other intelligent seekers of space colonization, within the same petri dish presented by life itself.

... " highly likely there are other universes " on our way to whatever destiny , our creator had in mind. I know I often mention a " creator " / God / whatever .... I do this because, I honestly believe life ( in all its majesty & mayhem ) is created for a purpose, what that is - may be beyond our comprehension but > this is the " human " in me, which includes speculation & intense curiosity .

... heart / human destiny / sun ...
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Frontiering Space vs Earth?
Posted: 2/25/2019 11:43:18 AM

~ If I may be frank ? ~

If I can be Shirley, sure! ;)

If our sun is only 5 billion years old and the earth significantly younger

Earth's not that much younger. More like 4.5 billion years old. Of course, the collision with another body forming our moon would call for a reboot, but that didn't happen much longer after the earth formed.

that means other intelligent life forms could have had a ten billion year head start or more over our own.

That would be hasty not putting some basics into play, though. The beginning of the universe with stars after the first atoms formed was hydrogen (barely an atom) -- forming helium due to the nuclear process -- but it took supernova explosions of stars to form other elements and to spread them out in each of the galaxies. Took billions of years to spread the wealth of complex atoms, the ingredients for even the concept of any life to form. You'd need next-generation stars. Also:

- Stars on the outer edge of our galaxy have very few complex atoms; waste of time to fish for life
- Stars much closer toward the middle of the galaxy is a more chaotic environment
- It took ~1 billion years for the first life to form on earth (give or take); 3.5 bill years ago
- Multi-cellular life only started ~900 million years ago - It's Freaking Hard As Hell
- It took another 300 million years to form the 1st multi-cellular animals
- High intelligence isn't The target for life to evolve and survive, either

Also: There's other galaxies that seem more fruitful with complex atoms, than our own. So our own galaxy may not be the best to up the chances of complex life. And in a way, a galaxy is almost like a universe itself, as traveling from one star to the next -- assuming you extend life-span, super-high-tech, and saying goodbye to your home forever -- is theoretically doable... but traveling from galaxy to galaxy on an engine? I don't see the feasibility or motive to do so.

But remember, our Universe is highly likely only one of an infinite number of universes...so in the multi-universal view, there are probably intelligent life forms that are infinitely older than our own

Yes, but that doesn't really apply though. Analogy: We're in a video game of sorts bring run ("Sim Universe"). We're a rare breed, as far as square footage of space & time is concerned this one. OH, but there's likely many other different versions of Sim Universe where intelligent life has formed! Yeah, great. We're in this box, not another one where it's being run, otherwise it wouldn't be another universe.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Frontiering Space vs Earth?