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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 1
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We want too much from relationshipsPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I just read an interesting article about the theory of a therapist named Esther Perel. Here's an excerpt that basically explains her theory:

"What we once got from the village, many people are now expecting one singular human being to provide for them. We want, with the same person, to experience security, adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise. We want this same person to still be our best friend, and our trusted confidante and our passionate lover. We really have this idea that one person today will give us what once an entire village used to provide. I can't say more concretely: [there are] such unprecedented expectations for our romantic relationships."

The whole article can be found at this link:
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5000270

I see such a difference in my generation from my parents' and my grandparents'. Because we have tv, cell phones and the internet, we have an artificial sense of community when in fact we have much less close relationships with people. Women used to seek out friends and spent a great deal of time talking with them face to face or via the phone. In my grandparents' generation and maybe even my parents' I can venture that sometimes your friends knew you better than your husband. I think women are such social creatures that because we are lacking in close female relationships, our needs are being unmet and we turn to our husbands or boyfriends to fill that need. Geography plays a big part too. At one time you usually had your extended family more close by (at least one side of the family) whereas now its not common to move far away from families and friends. And all our communities quit being communities where everyone knew everyone else. I used to think that only in small towns did people know everyone but my great aunt said when she was raising her kids in Winnipeg, she knew every kid on the block and all their mothers.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 2
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/20/2019 4:51:46 PM
I don't see this need as a generational thing....
I know plenty of people my age that do the same thing...expect their S/O to be their "everything".

I do notice when I am in a restaurant...the only "groups" I tend to see are middle aged and older women.
We still want our "girlfriends" time...and don't rely on electronics to keep that bond.
I host parties throughout the year....summertime it's pool parties and hanging around the firepit...
I have one that is for all the girlfriends from high school......one is for my college friends......and the others are free for alls for everyone!!
I do a big party Labor Day weekend for anyone and everyone...with live music and we have the best damn time!!
Christmas brings more parties.
I refuse to let us grow apart or only see each other at funerals....done that too many times ....
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 3
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 5:26:35 AM
Growing up, my parents constantly had friends over, playing cards, drinking. Their friends would bring their kids over and we'd run around until we were so tired we'd go to sleep. Or my parents would go to other peoples' houses and we went too. Everywhere we went my parents had friends. We didn't tend to stay home too much idle. If there wasn't work to do, we went out visiting or company would stop by. That being a world in which we only had two channels on tv. My family was very social but so were most other families. In those days my parents said the bars and restaurants were always packed too. Also, when their were community.or church events, the whole town would come out. Now, people do not seem to do a ton of visiting unless its well-planned in advance and the bars and restaurants are often fairly empty except on odd nights and not so many people come to community events.
 MyTrueCompanion
Joined: 9/20/2018
Msg: 4
We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 7:39:21 AM
July, it seems as though the internet/TV is replacing social interaction

I guess a person can really try to seek out face to face interaction.
We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 9:20:38 AM
"many people are now expecting one singular human being to provide for them."

>>>every disney princess wants her Prince charming.

the social media of today does alienate us, but back when cities formed during the Industrial Age and young girls left the village to make money in the big city, it was worried they were heading towards sin, alienated from the stern looks of their parents. allegedly the Model T helped form the flapper generation, b/c girls could go on a ride that ended in sex (or at least drinking and smoking, considered unladylike) away from the gossip of their neighbors.

ironically, it also contributed to the female empowerment movement of the 1920's.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 6
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 1:48:45 PM

I understand that relational betrayal comes in many forms. Sometimes [it comes] in neglect, and indifference, and violence, and contempt, by people who have not cheated. That does not make them morally superior.

This I can cheer and buy popcorn about. People just LOOOOVE to qualify betrayal or damage to a relationship as only ONE thing, when they themselves exploit that relationship sixteen ways to Sunday.

If you want to change the other, change yourself.

Should be the constant mantra in these forums. People come in here repeatedly asking why the outer world won't change to meet their needs. They don't HAVE to.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 7
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 3:21:56 PM
I think a lot of people do keep making the same mistakes over and over while never understanding that they are the common denominator. However, I will say that sometimes people do recognize their mistakes but do not have the ability or the knowledge of how to change things or do not have the means to get a good relationship because there are things holding them back. Sweet Dannimal, you are constantly lamenting that your greatest problem is that you are short. I do agree that is a big obstacle for you. It makes things 10x harder. But I am guessing self-esteem and confidence are a bigger issue. I don't blame you for that because you probably haven't gotten a lot of positive reinforment in the past. Nothing builds confidence faster than the experience of success. And when you go long enough without feeling any success, you end up feeling cynical and pessimistic. People who have found a good partner in the past, even if the relationship eventually soured or ended, at least have the experience of requoited love to make them feel a little more confident in themself.

When I look at myself, I realize my biggest obstacles are a) I am a broke mother with 3 kids who I have 95% of the time b) I am overweight c) I have low self-esteem. I can't really do anything about the first thing (and I do not regret being a mom of 3 kids, I want to make that clear, its just that I wish I was fianancially better off so I could maybe pay an occasional babysitter or buy nicer clothes and such for dating) and I am trying really hard to conquer the overweight thing although I do think I am just naturally predisposed to being overweight so its a hell of a lot more work than what I wonder its worth to try to lose and keep off weight. The third thing, self-esteem is a huge one. I acknowledge that if I like a guy I then believe he will not really be interested in me. Automatically, when I meet a guy and instantly feel an attraction and like him, a switch flips and I say to myself that he doesn't like me. I hide that poor self-esteem but the few times a guy I like has actually wanted to see me again I either have such low expectations that I will sleep with him too quickly or I am so guarded about not saying or doing anything to ruin it that I don't let my true self shine through and end up appearing boring or disinterested. And I do not know how to get past that.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 8
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 4:03:58 PM

Sweet Danimal, you are constantly lamenting that your greatest problem is that you are short.

NO - being short is who I am - it's not a 'problem' for me - just for anyone who thinks they deserve taller than average. I got over not being tall enough for online dating about six months after I started, which would be nearly eight years ago. If you haven't noticed, I'm a little on the chubby side, too - and yes, a bit cynical and pessimistic - makes for a real choice package for the ladies in here shopping for a Bugatti.

The Height argument I use online a lot because it's a provable numbers game that gets into science and lying and other stuff people bring up in here. Arguing about weight or body shape is not so much because hardly any sites out there discriminate by pounds or kilograms - just by vague terms like 'BBW' and 'Athletic'. It's harder to have a logical, mathematical arguments about numbers in vague terms like that. The only real solid numbers we can debate for online purposes is discriminating about Age and Height. I have made plenty of comments on the Age specific threads as well.

Part of what this counselor lady in the link above gets into is the idea that we cannot form the patience to build a relationship into something desirable -- it ALL has to be there, RIGHT NOW, or they are disposable --- so the decision being made is pretty much whether to Make Out, or to Flake Out -- and we simply have no way of sustaining anything long term because of it. That's an acceptance change that needs to happen between the ears, not between the sheets.

As much as I preach those kinds of words, Women STILL add in the second half of the sentence, "...because I want to get laid!" to nearly everything I put in here, thus negating much of it as a child-like taunt. If you are doing that kind of crap, just stop it. I have lived on my own, with no pets, no kids, and no live-in relationships for nearly ten years, and am still OK being on my own. Yes, there is NOTHING like success to build confidence -- but how much confidence would YOU need to show up at a bar, or concert, or theater - by yourself? I do it ALL the time. Call me lazy if you want -- because trying to fake a better life for broken women out there takes far too much energy than just living alone -- but confidence is not so much of a problem as you may think.
 Spectrallight
Joined: 9/14/2018
Msg: 9
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 7:22:00 PM

NO - being short is who I am - it's not a 'problem' for me - just for anyone who thinks they deserve taller than average.


What they think they deserve and what they get are 2 different things.

These types litter the site and remain here for an eternity waiting for their knight. Well nobody is coming for most of them. I've heard a stat thrown about. I think it was purplerider that said there is 8 men to 1 women. but 7/8 women remain here or leave in a huff only to come back and stick the same 5 year old pic for us to ignore again. smh. I know you see it.

I mentioned months back in UK forum that a female friend said that any woman on a dating site has issues and she knows this because she is full of them herself so wouldn't want to guess what theirs is like and wouldn't lower herself to be on a dating site.

Size 18, good looking and gets plenty of d!ck. She is 5ft 4 and she doesn't discriminate by height but by d!ck size only lol. Under 7" don't bother. Won't get an eyebrow raise :)

I wonder how many women still don't use online dating. 70%? 80%? You might want to go out lad and laugh your way into some knickers :)
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 10
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/22/2019 10:28:44 PM
I do think a great many women do use dating sites but I think many only go on for short stints before deleting their profiles. Women have an easy time getting dates and getting a boyfriend so they delete their profile quickly or they go on one too many bad dates and delete their profiles. Many of the women I know say they have tried online dating but when they got way too many requests for quick sex and unsolicited dic pics they quit in disgust. Many women eventually venture back on again if real life doesn't prevent any good possibilities.
 basilisk123
Joined: 12/17/2011
Msg: 11
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/23/2019 3:14:03 AM
I don't know. The only thing I want is that the woman I like to be my girlfriend. Of course getting a girlfriend is impossible for me, but a guy can dream.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 12
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/23/2019 3:52:13 PM
Since I can only relate to this from my prospective-yes.

Women set up their own set of standards for who they'll date. If you don't measure up, you're cooked. I come as-is. I put up no fronts. Make no promises that I can't keep. Take me as I am, or watch me as I leave.

Saves me a lot of grief and drama.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 13
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/23/2019 4:06:04 PM

I do think a great many women do use dating sites but I think many only go on for short stints before deleting their profiles.


I think you’re wrong about that. I’ve been on and off this site for years, and I keep seeing the same women who are online all the time.
 Spectrallight
Joined: 9/14/2018
Msg: 14
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/23/2019 4:20:33 PM

I think you’re wrong about that. I’ve been on and off this site for years, and I keep seeing the same women who are online all the time.


Indeed, and they do get messages so it sums them up as time wasters as not every bloke is a piece a sh1t as made out to be, and when my friends go on POF(newbies). I point them out so they go for different women, and they have success because they can contact women that are actually on here to do what it says on the tin.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 15
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/23/2019 4:24:50 PM

We want, with the same person, to experience security, adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise.

Maybe it's just me but I never considered any of those six words ever when I was looking for or in a relationship. Did she mean subconsciously? Who knows, I looked for a better explanation of her notion and found nothing. Kind of looks like "We want" doesn't apply to me not that I ever pay attention to people who tell me what I want. She left out one thing though.

Security, adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise are actually available another place. The present village,The Internet.


What we once got from the village, many people are now expecting one singular human being to provide for them.

The village still exists but it's changed into something else which brought us all closer together. It was first hypothesized by Marshall McLuhan in the early 60's and he called it "The Global Village."

"The term global village represents the simplifying of the whole world into one village through the use of electronic media. Global village is also a term to express the constituting relationship between economics and other social sciences throughout the world. The term was coined by Canadian media theorist, Marshall McLuhan and popularized in his books The Gutenberg Galaxy: The Making of Typographic Man (1962) and Understanding Media (1964) McLuhan changed the way the world thought about media and technology ever since his use of the word in his book. McLuhan described how electric technology has contracted the globe into a village because of the instantaneous movement of information from every quarter to every point at the same time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_village

A video of him from 1960 on which he explains it.

https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/marshall-mcluhan-the-global-village

He also predicted the internet

"Though the World Wide Web was invented almost thirty years after The Gutenberg Galaxy, and ten years after his death, McLuhan prophesied the web technology seen today as early as 1962:

The next medium, whatever it is—it may be the extension of consciousness—will include television as its content, not as its environment, and will transform television into an art form. A computer as a research and communication instrument could enhance retrieval, obsolesce mass library organization, retrieve the individual's encyclopedic function and flip into a private line to speedily tailored data of a saleable kind."

Furthermore, McLuhan coined and certainly popularized the usage of the term "surfing" to refer to rapid, irregular and multidirectional movement through a heterogeneous body of documents or knowledge,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan#The_Global_Village:_Transformations_in_World_Life_and_Media_in_the_21st_Century_(1989)

So much for We want
 dondea
Joined: 12/10/2007
Msg: 16
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/24/2019 8:56:24 AM

Since I can only relate to this from my prospective-yes.

Women set up their own set of standards for who they'll date. If you don't measure up, you're cooked. I come as-is. I put up no fronts. Make no promises that I can't keep. Take me as I am, or watch me as I leave.

Saves me a lot of grief and drama.


purplerider1200, you said it best. That's how my attitude was when I dated many moons ago and like many others, I'm in the short height category of 5' 7." Yet, I had no problems getting dates because of the "accept me as I am." mantra.
 dondea
Joined: 12/10/2007
Msg: 17
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/24/2019 9:04:37 AM

I think you’re wrong about that. I’ve been on and off this site for years, and I keep seeing the same women who are online all the time.


Kokanee_Ice: Yes, that's true. However a lot of men AND women are on POF because of the forums and it has nothing to do with relationships. Like me, they like POF. Most people delete their profiles because they are either:
- Successful in finding a partner
- Successful in finding a partner AND because POF is an online dating site, they left because their relationship became exclusive and the significant other asked them to get off dating sites.
- Unsuccessful in finding a partner and gave up
- Got tired of POF forums and online dating and moved on to IRL or other social media.
I'm sure there hundreds of other reasons as well!
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 18
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/24/2019 3:24:25 PM

Kind of looks like "We want" doesn't apply to me not that I ever pay attention to people who tell me what I want.

For someone who doesn't pay attention to whatever other people tell them they want, you sure do have a lot to say about it.


Security, adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise are actually available another place. The present village,The Internet.

Yes, the World Wide Web gives us all kinds of ways to configure how we get information in our particular outlet.
BUT the internet gives us information ONLY through our visual and auditory senses.

Is the prompt "Security Scan Completed: No Viruses Found" feel as secure as a warm hug?
Can you smell the latest recipe video that shows a raw onion being diced in a bowl in the blink of an eye?
If you are engaging in some sordid interaction with a set of 3D-Goggles and your lover across the continent, can you taste a bit of blood from them biting your lip or feel their hot breath the side of your neck?

"We Want" goes way, way beyond what glowing screens and keypads can provide. It's no wonder pets are no longer just cats and dogs, but 'Family Members'. It's no wonder people are willing to cough up $200 to $1000 for a day at the spa or a good massage. It's no wonder child custody hardly ever gets shared equally and kids' futures seem to be argued over like a couple drug addicts fighting for that last hit of Heroin. Hell, living by myself -- I'll admit a really good back scratch from a friend some days feels almost orgasmic.

All that information at our fingertips -- and yet we are still sitting alone, watching it stream through.

I think the real problem with wanting all that stuff from a partner is not that we want it -- it's because we want it RIGHT NOW and can't give each other the time to grow into those roles. It's like getting mad being made to wait an extra 30 seconds in the drive thru for some french fries when it would take us an hour or two to slice and fry them up ourselves. We keep wanting to see 'signs' there is a 'spark' -- but we don't WAIT to see the signs - if it doesn't explode like fireworks right in front of our eyes, we stupidly assume it didn't or won't happen.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 19
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/24/2019 6:58:45 PM
Danimal, I agree with you on the importance of touch. I work with the elderly as a home care worker and I try and give hugs or a pat on the shoulder when I think someone wants or needs it. I gave 3 hugs today on my shift, all to elderly ladies who I know appreciated it. I've had people cry from getting hugged because it created such an emotional response in them. Having someone actually looking into your eyes is another major thing. When you are videochatting online you can't even really look into the other person's eyes.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 20
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/24/2019 7:23:41 PM

What we once got from the village, many people are now expecting one singular human being to provide for them.What we once got from the village, many people are now expecting one singular human being to provide for them.

You have to go REALLY far back in time to rely on people living in villages where they provided for everyone else 1st-hand.

Growing up, my parents constantly had friends over, playing cards, drinking. Their friends would bring their kids over and we'd run around until we were so tired we'd go to sleep. Or my parents would go to other peoples' houses and we went too. Everywhere we went my parents had friends.

There's a difference between being provided for, and socialization VS more physically isolated. I do think the Internet helps and hurts in different ways. It provides for an otherwise isolation in this busy world -- but it also can make it too convenient. Also "back in the day" a ways back, women worked less -- so they'd gal-pal with other moms who popped babies out, and I think that's why it's less common of what you describe, but it's still there. Plus, people Move A Lot More. That also contributes.

But as far as a serious Relationship's concerned -- I don't think it's making people Want/Expect more. Heck, there's a lot less "Honey, can you clean the basement for Christ sake?! We're having people over with their kids tonight, you lazy bum!" ;)
 curvylady1965
Joined: 12/31/2017
Msg: 21
We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/25/2019 6:17:00 AM
Danimal, I believe the search for the "spark" is one of the main reasons relationships don't form in one's later years. I just don't believe the propensity to feel that spark or chemistry is there the same way in later years the way it was in one's teens or twenties.
 Spectrallight
Joined: 9/14/2018
Msg: 22
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/25/2019 8:06:04 AM

I believe the search for the "spark" is one of the main reasons relationships don't form in one's later years. I just don't believe the propensity to feel that spark or chemistry is there the same way in later years the way it was in one's teens or twenties.


I can only speak for myself. But for me sparks get created and don't just happen. You go on a date and 20 mins passes and you think "Is this going anywhere" through conversation. 2 mins later somebody says something then boom! You both become enthusiastic and things start to flow.

I think as you get older. You've not got rose tinted glasses on. You've lived, and for a lot of woman. they're dubious about a lot of men's intentions, and rightly so, hence, harder to feel the spark due to wisdom. The difference is: when you're young, you've not heard it all, and are pretty brand new to the bull, and trusting that someones intentions are above board. You ignore the bad signs in the hope of falling in love.




I work with the elderly as a home care worker and I try and give hugs or a pat on the shoulder when I think someone wants or needs it. I gave 3 hugs today on my shift, all to elderly ladies who I know appreciated it. I've had people cry from getting hugged because it created such an emotional response in them. Having someone actually looking into your eyes is another major thing.


Good Woman. There isn't enough hugs in the world.

I bestow upon you 20,000 karma points. They auto spend. Give them time to kick in ;)
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 23
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/25/2019 10:40:10 AM
"We want, with the same person, to experience security, adventure, stability, change, dependability and surprise."

>>>nearly without fail, a majority of women want to feel comfortable with a fellow. that he isn't physically aggressive to her, that he isn't going to go behind her back and brag about her like a conquest. that he isn't just out to use her. that he isn't going to judge her for sex on the second date. and what guy wants a woman who isn't dependable? she has to be smoking hot for him to put up the constant flakiness. as for adventure and surprise, that merely boils down to "girls just wanna have fun".
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 24
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/25/2019 11:02:43 AM

I can only speak for myself. But for me sparks get created and don't just happen.

I agree. It's not spirit-fingers-serendipity silliness that some people believe in (we're superstitious beings unfortunately). Although that is "killed" but works in a hardened Opposite direction much of the time when it comes to online for some, which isn't any good. But yeah, Chemistry is something that's created between two people.

You go on a date and 20 mins passes and you think "Is this going anywhere" through conversation. 2 mins later somebody says something then boom!

I really haven't seen it that way. I don't have the mindset of "Is this going anywhere" 20m on a 1st date, and wouldn't assume the gal is thinking that either, as if it's some Game Show with a clock and some set finish-line. :)

The difference is: when you're young, you've not heard it all, and are pretty brand new to the bull, and trusting that someones intentions are above board. You ignore the bad signs in the hope of falling in love.

I agree it's different when you're young. I don't think it relies on being more naive or ignorant of certain incompatible signs, although that does play a role for some. I think it's more about being hardened in one's ways & the life in front of them when they're 30+, where being in their 20s, notably earlier 20s, they're more of 'clay' and can grow/change/morph together much more easily.

nearly without fail, a majority of women want to feel comfortable with a fellow.

And vice-versa. I think when we're talking Relationships & LTR-potential, a guy's Certainly going to put that up there, as the concept of Being In a Relationship in and of itself holds less value to guys than to gals, stereotypically. The guy is going to be more picky about jumping into one.

As far as just-dating is concerned -- yes, the comfort-zone is a big thing for gals; not so much for guys. He doesn't have to "watch his back" unless there's signs of an angry ex or d!ckhead brother of hers around the corner or something.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 25
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We want too much from relationships
Posted: 2/25/2019 1:20:01 PM

Danimal, I believe the search for the "spark" is one of the main reasons relationships don't form in one's later years. I just don't believe the propensity to feel that spark or chemistry is there the same way in later years the way it was in one's teens or twenties.


I have to disagree with this...
I think way too many people mistake that "spark" of chemistry we feel with actual emotions of love.
I see this constantly with my "older" friends that are dating....they base their rationale of he/she is the one on the sexual chemistry...instead of "who" a person is.
It is the getting passed that "spark" that marks a true relationship.
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