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 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 3
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ? Page 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
And this site raises more questions.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/exposed.html
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 5
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History
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 11/5/2005 10:01:52 PM
Yeah, I knew a similar guy. He was Jewish by Birth and later accepted Christ as his Savior. He said he was not a Christian and did not like the title Messianic Jew. He claimed to be a Jew. His reasoning was that Jesus came first for the Jews. As far as I can see what he is saying does not go against New Testament teaching.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 6
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 11/5/2005 10:07:25 PM
If he accepted Jesus as his savior doesn't that make him a Christian by definition?
 sister_wife2005
Joined: 12/30/2005
Msg: 7
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/5/2006 7:29:27 AM
I am Jewish by birth but believe that Messiah is my savior which makes me Messianic Jewish. You can't change your birth right because of your beliefs. So yes, I do believe I am Jewish.

Kara
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 9
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/5/2006 11:54:27 PM
Ethnicity aside, what's the difference between a Christian and a Messianic Jew?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 13
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2006 7:41:06 PM


THe Jews have been waiting for the Messiah for centuries, and almost eveyone except the Jews know that the Jew Jesus is the Messiah


There's a very good reason why the Jews don't think Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.
 TallDarkNSweeet
Joined: 11/20/2005
Msg: 17
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2006 5:12:39 AM
To answer the question... I would have to say YES!!!

Just think:

If it was not for Jesus, the most famous Jew... there would be no Christian nations to help the Jews get past Hitler and to help them rebuild their nation. The biggest allies to Israel are the so-called-Christian nations. So in many ways Jesus has become their messiah and their salvation even though the majority of Jews still see him as just a profit. To be a real Christian and not a hypocrite we should first become Jewish and understand the Old Testament. We call it the meat of God's word or the foundation of Christianity. In this way a Jewish man is already one step ahead of those who are now blood bought Jews. He is both blessed by birthright and redeemed by the perfect lamb that was crucified according to the Old Testament prophecies for our sins.
 sister_wife2005
Joined: 12/30/2005
Msg: 19
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2006 6:49:37 PM

I was just wondering how the messianic Jews here combine their beliefs:

Do you keep the Sabbath on Saturday (as Jesus did) vs. Sunday?
Do you keep Kosher?
Do you study the old testament or only the new?
Where do you pray?
Do you celebrate Jewish holydays as well as Christian?


Well we celebrate Sabbath on Saturday, even to the point of not driving long distances on the Sabbath, not cooking on the Sabbath, other than herbal medicine remedies when we are ill, and not working on the Sabbath, although Kara's work has tried to force her to do so, and we are in a legal battle over that as we write.

While we don't keep kosher as the Orthodox Jews do, ie seperate fridges, cooking utensils, and stoves, we do keep kosher according to the Torah, ie the old testament clean food laws.
We study and believe all scriptures both the old and new testament.

We pray in our home as there is no messianic synagogue for us to attend services where we live.

We celebrate only Jewish Holy Days and no "christian" holidays as they are pagan in origin.

Steve & Kara
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 20
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/7/2006 8:24:42 PM
If you keep the food laws then you're not following Christian beliefs. Jesus said that it's not what goes into the body that makes you unclean, but what comes out. According to Christian doctrines you're longer longer supposed to keep the Law.
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 36
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History
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/2/2006 9:24:50 PM
I'm surprised at how closely some of the posts from Jews give thoughts that resemble my own findings on Israel, Jews, and Christianity.

In agreement with the Israelites apparently going to Britain, through Ireland, then Scotland, and with the opposition to trinity teachings. And Constantine, and also on Christian / pagan incorporation as evidenced by Easter celebrations.

as to the Istraelites, the first info I got was that the northern tribes were taken for a time to be a buffer against the desert people, and they mixed with those desert people to become the Eberew or Eberu - feared horsemen raiders- then they ended up near Troy, and were known as celtoy, then through Spain, to Ireland, then to Scotland, where they were the highlanders. The names of so many places and people match up very neatly too.
 Annie777
Joined: 12/30/2005
Msg: 37
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/4/2006 2:02:29 PM
SHALOM ALL,

I am a Jewish female who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah. I am a Jew! There are many Jews who finally beleve. The scales are being removed from our eyes, and we are being regathered to our homeland! AS PROMISED!

Likewise,... it was prophesy
that He would come unto His own, and they would receive Him NOT! One of the truest tests of His Righteous Identity.

Please remember He prayed we woud be ONE, as He is ONE with the Father. Don't let a nametag cause division,...please!

At times it is better and wiser to..."lean not to your
own understanding"! Especially when ..."His ways are above our ways"!

Baruch HaShem...Bless His Name!

And SHALOM,...to ALL!

Annie
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 38
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/4/2006 5:26:59 PM
My understanding is that Judaism is an Orthopraxy. Keep kosher and you are a good Jew regardless of what you think. One of the big selling points of Christianity in the early days was that you could be Jewish without getting the end of your penis cut. Christian churches are all based on the Synagogue model.
 Annie777
Joined: 12/30/2005
Msg: 39
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/5/2006 2:47:54 PM
SHALOM ALL!

If the Bible gives the definition of a "Jew" as being a person who's 'heart' is circumcised to G-d, why don't believers ALL call themselves JEWS? ROMANS 2: 28 & 29

Frankly,...I don't care what you call yourself if you belong to G-d! But I do wish
others woud allow me the same
kindness!!!! I love G-d, and am chosen to be His! I am a JEW! Born Jewish, reborn Jewish, and will die Jewish.

Your Sister,
Annie
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 40
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History
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/5/2006 8:07:40 PM
So these unspeakable names...are they for sure all the same god? At the start of the Old testament, we have one of a certain type and name, then the name changes , and so on..were these phases of different gods in bible history, has the RC church messed up some of these names? they seem to be connected with other early god names from other cultures.

What role has the RC church had in the Messiah's story?
 Rug Doctor
Joined: 11/2/2005
Msg: 42
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Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 3/5/2006 11:24:31 PM
Yes, the names I was avoiding because in this thread I got the drift that the messianic jews would have trouble communicating about the names... kinda tough to talk about a name without mentioning it.
Other cultures and early ones used El and though I can't be specific I think pre-Sumerian.
anyway, I was interested to see what differrences there are, why the switch of names at certain points of the OT, etc.
also, I read that Elohim is plural, or indicates more like a "small 'G' " god Another question raised there.
 Geeis18
Joined: 10/15/2005
Msg: 45
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Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 4/1/2006 8:20:48 PM
Jesus is Jewish, and he's their/our King, the Christ. I think the bigger question is why the Jewish nation (or world) in general reject their anointed.


The reason that jews do not beleive in jesus and we rejected "YOUR" anointed is because the first rule in jewish law by accepting any leader is that the leader can not contradict ANY PART of the FIVE BOOKS OF MOSES, as we believe them to have come straight from god through moses. jesus contradicted the five books on several accounts, all you have to do is read the five books and you will probably come up wth more times then i will.

It is interesting to note while most rabbinical opinions agree that jesus lived, there are some who say that he never did. They come to this conclusion by saying that the ONLY record of him is in the "Talmud" (jewish legal/history script) under the name yaishu. and according to this record he lived 200 years before paul said he did!! This rebbinical opinion says the yeishu was a rabbi who went against jewish law and was thrown out. He did not at that time have any followers. About 15 years later, 12 years after yeishu died, the rabbis were concerned that many people were looking to convert to judiasm and met to discuss what to do. They decided to ignore it. One rabbi with 2 of his students were unhappy with the decision of the "board" and decided to invent a religion using jesus as a messiah. Somehow, this became "son of god" . This rabbi's name slips my mind in aramaic, but in english he was called paul.

Now as I said most opinions today beleive that jesus really did exist and that there is merely a mistake in the dates, but it does make me wonder.
 Geeis18
Joined: 10/15/2005
Msg: 47
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Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 4/3/2006 7:06:38 AM

jesus was actually talking about the ritual washing that the jews practiced -- which bordered on OCD!


i am sure that you are very knowledgable on the jewish practices of washing ones had. Becuase if you are not then this would be a case of talking out of ignorance. (funny theres a lot of that going on here)

The ritual washing that the jews practiced is still very much in effect today. We still wash the same way. Let me quickly go through the amount of times we wash and for what occasion.

1 - when we get up in the morning before anything
2 - after we dress
3 - before we eat bread (usually one or two meals per day)
4 - When we are through in the washroom

Moving backwards let me ask you some questions;
4 - Do you mean to tell me that you don't wash your hands after you are done in the washroom??
3 - I personaly wash my hands regularly without ritual (to be explained later) no matter what I am eating. A persons hands go all over the place so it makes sense to wash them before one eats.
2 - As we dress, our hands touch places that we would never touch if we werent showering/dressing. These places arent exaclty clean and because of that it certainly makes sense to wash you hands afterward.
1 - The same applys for when we wake up. While you are asleep do you know exactly where you hands went?? Yet you are content to spread whatever it was that they came in contact with when you say brush your teeth??

If you think that this is OCD then please don't shake my hand, I would have to add that to my list of when you must wash you hands afterward.

The ritual washing that i refered to is rather simple. We fill a large cup (about a quart) with water, and pour the water over each hand a minimum of 2 times ( Some do it 3 times). The pouring is done to the entire hand in one quick motion that enables the rush of the water clean whatever there may be on the hand.

The washing is actually not a cleanliness issue, its a purity issue. But as you can see it really is not more times then needed.


Jesus said that it's not what goes into the body that makes you unclean, but what comes out.


2 points on this:

1 - This is one of the many times that he contradicts the 5 books. I wont try to quote because i doubt any of you are fluent enough in ancient hebrew to understand. But suffice it to say that we all know about eating only kosher so that one stays clean.

2 - Even though he agree that things coming out of the body make you unclean (big suprise there, who doesnt) you say that washing you hands after being in the washroom makes you a borderline case of OCD??

Once again I ask you to verify your "facts" with someone who knows what they are talking about before you post. The issues discussed here are common knowledge among the 2nd grade students of most orthadox jewish schools. This means that your less knowledgable in these matters then my 10 year old nephew!! Why do you feel qualified to argue these points??
 Geeis18
Joined: 10/15/2005
Msg: 48
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History
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 4/3/2006 5:54:13 PM
I had a conversation about this with some of the messianic faith it went like this.:

quote from your posts in a forum:


SHALOM ALL,

I am a Jewish female who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah. I am a Jew! There are many Jews who finally beleve. The scales are being removed from our eyes, and we are being regathered to our homeland! AS PROMISED!

Likewise,... it was prophesy
that He would come unto His own, and they would receive Him NOT! One of the truest tests of His Righteous Identity.

Please remember He prayed we woud be ONE, as He is ONE with the Father. Don't let a nametag cause division,...please!

At times it is better and wiser to..."lean not to your
own understanding"! Especially when ..."His ways are above our ways"!

Baruch HaShem...Bless His Name!

And SHALOM,...to ALL!

Annie
SHALOM ALL!

If the Bible gives the definition of a "Jew" as being a person who's 'heart' is circumcised to G-d, why don't believers ALL call themselves JEWS? ROMANS 2: 28 & 29

Frankly,...I don't care what you call yourself if you belong to G-d! But I do wish
others woud allow me the same
kindness!!!! I love G-d, and am chosen to be His! I am a JEW! Born Jewish, reborn Jewish, and will die Jewish.

Your Sister,
Annie


If you indeed were born jewish then i certainly recognize you as such. For there is a verse well known among religous jews , "For even though he sins, he is jewish." As well as a well known jewish law that once a person is jewish through the blood of their mother they can not change that. Having said that, if you mother's jewish then you are indeed jewish, slightly deluded, but jewish.

If you mother was not jewish then you are not jewish and while you can convert to judism if you truely feel so strongly, I caution you that while you are converting, if you beleive in jesus then it is not judism that you are converting to. Personally I dont really care one way or another except to say that if you want to call yourself jewish then you should first learn every law in halacha and if you agree with those laws then (convert properly if need be) you can honestly call yourself jewish. The jewish code of law was compiled long before jesus was around. so there should be no problem using it if you are truly a believer.

good luck
Avi



Shalom "G",

Thanx for sending an email.

Just for more exact info., my Mother was Jewish!

The only thing I 'converted', was my heart toward G-d.

I am not really sure why you wrote, but I am pleased to meet you!

Kind Regards,
Annie

I wrote to find out whether your mother was jewish or not. If she wasnt then i would contest your claim to being a jew. Being that she was, I agree that you are jewish. I would like to know however why you change judiasm to fit your desires?? Does it not make sense to find out everything you can about judiasm before you go and start adding your own feelings to it??

thanx for hearing me
Avi



Hi G,

My real knowledge of Judaism, cae from my parents and extended family. Although I went to Hebrew school, that seemed more abou learning the language than a sustaiing faith. My grandparents were Orthodox, but my parents were more Conservative. As for myself, the basic teaching let me know it was a vluable heritage, but it lacked a personal relationship, which I needed. Therein, is the basis for my embracing Yeshua. Or perhaps,...He chose me! I can not truly say which is the real tuth. Maybe my need for an everpresent companion was the open door that allowed me to complete a faith decision.

However, Faith is a personal thing, and everyone reaches a point of taking a position on G-d. I am one, that does not claim to have all the answers. But I have enough answers for myself to be reasonable content with a workable Faith. (most of the time!)

Sincerely,..I wish you the same!

Kind Regards,
Annie

Hi,

Do you meant to say that if you would have had more of a knowledge of judiasm then perhaps you wouldnt have strayed??
That seems like a silly answer, if your not happy with your relationship with your husband, do you go out and spend time with some other guy, or do you go and spend time with you husband in order to grow closer to him?? It seems to me that if you relationship with god is lacking you should go look for him in teachings and books that there is no conflict on. Not go looking for someone that has no connection to him. I wonder why you think the jesus is a path to god, perhaps you should get an artscroll chumash and start going through the five books. take a hebrew english dictionary with you if you wish to challenge the transalation.

Interesting to note that what you are saying here is that you were not comfterable with judaism for personl reasons, and so you decided to add to it. In other words what you are practicing is not judaism, it is something of your own creation. Actually, lets call a spade a spade. Judaism with jesus is christianity. So although you are jewish by birth and will remain jewish throughout your time of confusion, you are a practicing christen.

I am very content with my faith as well. Thank you. I always feel very close to god, There have been times when ive seen with my own eyes that he is watching over me.



Dear One,

Firstly, "MY" Faith is not open for debate. Secondly,..it is not a matter than someone else can really understand, partly, because it isn't theirs. That said, I would ask you to research Jerimiah 31:31. Lastly, the people of the day Yeshua walked the land, were speaking Hebrew, and wre Jewish, and so was He!

If anything has changed in my spirit, I am more a Jew now, with more knowledge of my Jewish faith than as a child.
Rather than only reading 5 books, I have read a great deal of ALL of the Old Testament.

Shalom,
Annie


hi,

The reason I specified the chumash is because the chumash came from god while the rest of the old testament was recorded by various rabbis and spiritual leaders. As such, the law in the chumash apply to everyone individual and leader alike. You claim to read all of the old testamet but you go along with where jesus contradicts it??

You claim that you are happy with your religion, yet you call it judaism when its really christianity. If you are so content then why are you fooling yourself? Your faith is yours and yours alone. but it is not judaism, to call it that is an insult both to judaism and christianity. I believe that everyone should have faith as they see fit, but please do not digrace my faith by calling what you practice, judaism.

I wasnt religious all of my life, and I almost fell into the same trap you did, however I thank god that he gave me the gift of intellect that allowed me to see jesus for what he is, a farce.

When I speak to you, I am not trying to convert you as you are already jewish from birth and as ive said before there is a famous phrase "yisroel af al pi she'hu choteh, yisroel hu." It merely pains me that someone can follow without intellect. God made u a human not a monkey, he gave u intelligence and the ability to analyse various aspects of life. It would be morally irresposable not to use that intellect in seeking truth.

v'im at rotzuh l'omeret at she'asit kol zeh, sge'amerti, ani omer luch nearishkeit. k ani yodeah v'gam at yodat sh'kol zeh sh'at omeret al zeh, at omeret zeh bli daat. bli daat al ma she'haya b'chumash. bli daat al ma sha'haya b'talmud. at yaddat rak ma she haym b'j4j omrim.

ani ten lach bracha she'at yochela lh'shtameish ha'seichel she'lach la'asot chesban al kol she'amerti, v'kol she'asit. v'im ha'sechel ha'zeh, at yechola l'roit ha'emet.

bracha v'haztlacha



Dear G,

I think that you have vented,..at the expense of insulting my 'intellect',...is as far as I am willing to converse!

Tis will be my last email.

Shalom.
Annie

PEACE and LOVE are prescious!


hi,



I am more a Jew now, with more knowledge of my Jewish faith than as a child.


I apologize that i neglected to see the above phrase last time i wrote you.
I would like to say you cant be more jew or less jew. either you are or you arnt. I would also like to point out that by your own account you didnt know anything about judaism as a child, as such the more knowledge is more then what?? nothing?? It is quite obvious that this has not changed you still know nothing.

There are two aspects of judiasm that you will eventually count greatly on.

The 1st one is that you made your choice out of ignorance, as such you can not be blamed for it and will therefore be spared hell.

The 2nd one is that if you maintain that you know about judaism, then you also maintain that you deserve that hell however you can bank of the fact according to judasim hell does not last for more then 11 months.

And dont worry about firey hell cause we dont beleive int hat either. There are three types of hell, hell of snow, hell of pergatory and hell of acensionan and decenion.

But i assume your not going to care about that, and you really shouldnt because you are ignorant and therefore spared this ordeal. as far as the vers in jerimiah, if you can quote it to me in hebrew then i will listen. however, i refuse to acklowledge any bible written in english as i have seen transalation errors.

as per you subject of speak tenderly there is no way to tenderly tell you that either a) you are ingnoratn or b) you ar going to hell.

Please do not fdefile judaism anymore by calling your religion judaism.

enjoy your life
Ha'rav Avrohom ben Ha'rav Boruch Levi



Please do not write me again.
I am sorry you have been abused, but abusing another will NEVER help you heal.

Your dialogue has NOTHING to do with extending the Love of G-d, or the furthering of Judaism. When your behavior shows more LOVE, you will find yourself closer to G-d,
and maybe then,...He can use you in this difficult world.

I challenge you to seek a HEBREW account of Jeremiah 31:31. I suggest you PRAY that G-d will interpret the truth of that scripture to you!

Please,...do not write me again!

Shalom,
Annie


hi,
You challenge means nothing as I am very familiar with the verse its talking about the second temple. There is no need to look it up. I know it by heart, I quoted it to you in its ORIGINAL text in a previous e-mail.

When a father yells at his child for playing with a knife it is out of love not abuse. Every jew is precious, we are taught to nurture every jewish soul regardless of behavior for the soul is, in and of itself a small part of godliness. We, all of mankind, are gods children and what i say are not my words but the words of many leaders before us. As I do now, they spoke not in anger but in love and frustration.

Judaism has nothing to do with spreading the love of god. Judaism is a way of life and belief. No where in any book does it say that jews have to spread the love of god. That is a christen concept.

I am not sorry to hear that you no longer want to discuss this with me. And I am not disapointed that you do not for soon you will awake to your denial and understand that which I have stated here during our correspondence is nothing but the truth. I have gone through this time and again with so many people who used to believe as you do. The current count for myself and my father in the past 2 years is 147 people who were turned by "jews for jes.." came back and recognized their true religion. Not all of them were jewish but they were all calling themselves jewish which can cause major problems with intermarriage. Now those that were jewish are practicing true judaism and those who were not, continued their quest for the truth with the knowledge that what they were practicing was not judaism.

And all of those who were jewish from birth, they all have gone through this process with me and have discarded me only to wake up and return to true judaism later. The reasons for that is simple, 1) the human mind can become very confused when it doesnt have enough information, but humans have a gift that when you hear the truth, you know its the truth. 2)Your soul knows the truth and when he becomes awakened from the truth he will pull you to it. Now, I have told you the truth and you know it is the truth. It is only a matter of time before you accept that.

And so, because I am sure that you will soon accept that, I will do as you ask and I will not contact you again. I wish you the best of luck.
Avi
 willow25m
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 49
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 5/25/2006 7:07:45 PM
I once spoke to a guy who wanted fervently to be Jewish...I asked him if his mother was jewish-he answered no....I then asked if he had approached a Rabbi or the Beth Din for conversion, he said he was shomer shabbos, he wouldn't disclose why he wanted to convert to me other than that he felt a sense of prestige being labelled Jewish....I asked him....*you think obeying 613 mitzvot (commandments) is fun?* He said he thought he only needed to obey the 10 noachide laws. I told him his top wasn't kosher, it had mixed consitituents, he needed to be able to stomach cholent every friday night of his life and have a bris. At this, he said...*NO WAY*....I can be Jewish and not observe all the laws.

My point is, everyone will create their own realities regardless of Halacha. Jews 4 Jesus will believe they are such, as strongly as a homosexual will believe their sexual acts are moral.

It is my belief that Jews 4 Jesus or so called messianic Jews have no desire to desecrate the word of hashem but that they want the best of both worlds and lack decisiveness.

Anyway, who can say my belief is more valid than any other----only Hashem

Shalom
 TallCindy
Joined: 12/16/2006
Msg: 50
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/28/2006 9:18:48 PM
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
The major difference between being Jewish and not being Jewish is where you sit on the fence of this very easy question. In short, Jesus was a man like any other.
Being Jewish means you don't believe what everyone does. If the mother is Jewish or is Jewish by conversion. Jesus was not Messiah.
Most of you won't like the above. Cult groups like Messianic Jews are just offshoot cults of Christianity. The orthodox have kept this religion together through the centuries.
We live in a society that tries to poopoo our differences and says to accept. What a bunch of hooey.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 51
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/28/2006 10:10:41 PM
Thank you so much to the Jewish people for stepping forward and speaking out for your faith! It gladdens my heart to see it...one of my favorite lecturers, even though I am neither Jewish nor pratice Judaism, is Rabbi Tovia Singer of Outreach Judaism, a great scholar who knows Judaism and Christianity inside and out. He frequently has to combat misinformation about the differences between Judaism and Messianic Judaism and Christianity...

One of my favorite sayings of his is that the best gift grandparents can contribute to their grandchildren is helping to provide for a good Jewish education so that the prosletyzers will not succeed.

Your culture and faith has been made war on by Christendom overtly (and perhaps now more covertly) for two millenia, and you have the right and the priviledge to be proud of your Jewish heritage and faith on its own merit.

Kudos and Yasher Koach!
 SteveHD
Joined: 3/9/2005
Msg: 55
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 12/29/2006 5:18:07 AM
I've read through the forum and just wanted to throw out a couple of comments/questions.

Before anyone starts the Hitler thing again, check out the story of the S.S. St. Louis (not U.S.S., just S.S.). I remember my uncle had loaned me a book on it that talked about the voyage and the people that were on the ship, what happened them, how they tried coming to the U.S. and were turned away, went to Cuba and were turned away and ended up going back to Germany...it's been a while since I've read it, but I do remember it changed my understanding of what happened during WWII. I'll see if I can get the name of the book and publisher I read. Anyone else familiar with this?

Forgive my ignorance for this next question, but how would we know today if anyone is decended from David?

Finally...from what I understand...cursed internet education...Christianity was a movement amongst a group of Jewish people who chose to follow Jesus. There were other people during that time that we're claiming to be a messiah to start an uprising against Rome. So from Judaism, sprang forth Christianity, which might have been like a New Age movement at the time. So are Christians....bare with me....just a different kind of Jew (Faith not heritage)?

Where is the Trinity first mentioned in the Bible?


"Test all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 62
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2007 3:40:04 PM
at lex


No. He couldn't. Put in the very simplest terms, the Messiah predicted in the Hebrew bible would have brought about a messianic age of some sort, but that didn't happen with Jesus.


^.......since you were brought up Methodist, you should rightly know that the kingdom of JC was "not of this world"........so if you are looking for an earthly messianic phenomenon to have taken place then you are gravely mistaken!
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I haven't converted to Judaism yet, but it is on my mind.


^.......practicing Jews do not really encourage non-jews to convert......Jews were "chosen" by the God of Abraham,and thus have a direct lineage......they didn't volunteer or sign up for the mission!
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I don't know how to tell my family. Or what to do about Christmas (since it's the only holiday we all celebrate together, my brothers flying in from out of state and all...


^..........tell them you are just there for the food! .....i'm sure they'll understand!
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Not to mention the fact that there won't be any Jewish men around to date after I do convert, so I would be really limiting my social life...


.....now you are using your noodle!!!......which is why i would suggest you start believing in the flying spaghetti monster!.......you'll really be the toast of the party!
 lonewolfoo9
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 63
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2007 6:21:44 PM
I don't know if this is my opinion but one taught to me. A Jew is a believer in the God of Abraham. Abraham was spiritually awaken to the fact of a one God. He had a spiritual awakening. Now Moses was not alive then and so I guess the name would be more like Hebrews. Jews also were not the chosen race, God did not chose the Jews, the Jews chose God. And because they chose God during the exodus, they considered themselves to be chosen when in fact its the other way around, is it not. Plus from what I understand and don't hold me to it, is that. The early chirstians were Jews first, and Jesus was a reformer, therefore the fullfillment of the law. Jesus then taught love and not the fear of God. The reason why many Jews in the past believe that Christ was not the Messiah is because of the catholic claim of devine birth which would be a no no to the Jewish belief that no man can be devine. Its not the belief that Christ was NOT the Messiah, its that Christ was not devine at birth. Which I believe also. Christ had to become the Messiah and practice Gods lifestyle so that he could become enlightened and function with God Consciousnes. Thus, The Father and I are One. That Jesus understood that Man and God are one, if we allow ourselves to live in Gods reality. Seeing that the Jewish people do not believe in the trinity, then they have no connection to God but are more like servants as Christ tried to promote Oneness through the Holy Ghost as Gods energy with all the qualities and attributes of God. Therefore with the holy ghost (energy of some form) you can become one with the creator. From what I understand, told to me by a Kabbalistic Rabbi.
 Imadogperson
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 64
Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?
Posted: 1/6/2007 7:15:30 PM

Are Messianic Jewish people still Jewish ?


They are apostates.
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