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 AUTHOR
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 2
Heaven and HellPage 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
On earth, we are sinners, but in Heaven, it's different. We'll be perfect. That will be our eternal destiny- Heaven or Hell. But just because we will be perfect, doesn't mean we will be bored. Picture life without stress, without a broken heart, without debt, headaches, death... It will be PERFECT and I think no human mind can really register that.
 acesolak
Joined: 6/28/2005
Msg: 3
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/10/2005 10:11:40 PM
Are we gonna have TV up there? lol
No work, no worries, no reason to live, absolutely no progress.. since we'll be already perfect? That'd be boring.
What will be the day to day activities in Heaven then?
I don't mean to interrogate your way of thinking but.. don't you wonder about these things?

-Solak
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 7
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 12:19:08 AM
Once you get to Heaven can you choose to sin?
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 8
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 7:54:19 AM
^^ I don't think so. I don't think we have to worry about that! Think of how weird that will be... We'll be perfect, but we will still learn new things... That's nuts! Perfect people don't have to learn anything. Look at God. I think (just my opinion) that there are different levels of perfect. In Heaven.


Are we gonna have TV up there? lol
No work, no worries, no reason to live, absolutely no progress.. since we'll be already perfect? That'd be boring.
What will be the day to day activities in Heaven then?
I don't mean to interrogate your way of thinking but.. don't you wonder about these things?


And I agree with you. It DOES sound boring because we aren't perfect and can't grasp perfection. But look at it this way... If you believe we are created in His image, then He HAS to be funny. We are pretty funny people down here who like to have fun and do fun things. It will happen. I don't know what we'll be doing exactly up there, but we'll be having fun. If you look in the Bible, it says a lot of times how when Jesus went to visit people, he brought joy and laughter. Picture any time you had a genuinely fun time, that didn't include sin. But intensify that... It wll be awesome up there!

j-roc: I think it says in the Bible we WILL be working. I just don't know what we'll be doing. I dont think it will be anything we aren't going to like though. No bad bosses or anything :P
 masterspirit
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 9
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History
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 1:26:46 PM
j-roc,
That's a good way to cope with the level your on now. But imagine being immortal, fearless and limitless. A son of God with the universe as your playground. Limitless knowledge at your fingertips. Always loved, never alone, and music-imagine the music! Everyone having the briiliance of Beethoven as a norm and it only gets better from there. Nothing but beautiful women everywhere and all they want and all they are is love!!! If you don't want that you're crazy!!!!!
 vonBismarck
Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 12
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 2:05:53 PM
Dear Masterspirit:

Your comments are interesting, and reflect the musings of a 6 year old, when asked if they would like to visit a chocolate factory! If they never visit the chocolate factory, then it is a dream that will always enchant them. They would have visions of swimming in chocolate and eating huge amounts and so forth, (just like the cartoons of the Depression Era in America). However, anyone who works in a Chocolate factory soon tires of the routine, and grows to hate chocolate! At the Laura Secord (Fanny Farmer equivalent in the US)factories and stores the employees were told and encouraged to eat as much as they liked, and the wise managers knew that after about three or four days, they would slow down and eventually after about a week, stop eating company products off the line. They would soon grow tired of chocolate.

Believe me if everyone was a Beethoven , no one would bother doing anything with music! If everyone was a Rembrandt. then noone would paint! There was once a Twilight Zone show where this guy dies who had led a bad life. He wakes up in a great hotel, he has the presidential suite. He orders breakfast and it's there in an instant and is perfect. He wants a girl and poof one is supplied instantly and she's perfect. He decides to go golfing and is instantly transported to the course. He shoots a perfect 18 on 18 holes, and no matter how hard he tries, he never misses. Pretty soon he begins to want a change. He wants to burn toast and he cant. He wants to find an ugly girl and he cant. They are all perfect. Everything is perfect. He starts to go slightly mad, and runs into a guy who seems to be incharge. He says to the guy, "Gee heaven is okay, everything is perfect, but what do you do for real excitement? But look this is heaven and I should be able to get everything I want, and I want some excitement! I want some variation, I want problems to solve!" THe man looks at him again but this time says, "What ever gave you the impression that this was heaven?" Fade to black...

Get the point.

Von..
 masterspirit
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 13
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History
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 2:37:40 PM
I find it amusing that you compare my understanding of things to a six year old!! All that your doing, however is projecting your own experience into something you don't understand, either. Mine happens to be while childlike, not childish, probably closer to the truth. You are not a realist but rather obviously lack the capacity to understand something outside of your parameters of present experience. The same applies to my understanding of music in heaven. People will develop to a point where ALL spiritual gifts will be shared and what seems impossible now will be normal later. In order to understand heaven you have to think outside the box. You can believe as you wish but I'm gonna have a damn good time in heaven!Let me add here that the desire to acquire knowledge becomes selfless in heaven and is done so to share with others, having evolved beyond the selfish need to challenge oneself.Boredom is replaced with just being. While you seem to be an expert on the level of consciousness your on, you obviously have trouble seeing beyond it.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 14
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 7:48:17 PM
Asb, if you can't choose to sin in Heaven, then what happened to free will? God doesn't want robots does He?
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 16
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/11/2005 9:49:26 PM
^^^So again I ask what happened to free will? Supposedly Adam and Eve were made flawed so that they could have free will. Why didn't God avoid 6000 years of pain and suffering by not giving mankind free will in the first place?
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 18
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 12:32:15 AM
I have no idea Count. That's a good question. I'll let you know. I'm going to look into it!
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 23
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 7:26:37 AM
The Bible talks more about Hell than Heaven. I think because if someone tried telling about Heaven, they wouldn't do it justice. All I know for sure is that the streets are paved with gold. I also hear that it's so pure, you can see through it. But the thought of Hell kills me. You know what would bug me the most about hell? The fact that there is absolutely NO LIGHT. Ever in a room that is COMPLETELY dark? No sliver of light anywhere? Can't see literally ANYTHING? It's scary and it sucks. your eyes are trying to constantly adjust. But they can't.
 dud
Joined: 9/9/2005
Msg: 24
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 7:32:45 AM
i believe everyone has their own heaven. everything you ever thought of is there. everything you want. its your heaven, not "god"'s.

the only hell is regret.

if heaven and hell actually existed the way most people think of it, id rather go to hell. i think id enjoy the company more lol. just dont think i could get along with that god guy. he's too full of himself.




 dud
Joined: 9/9/2005
Msg: 26
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 8:28:05 AM
is there sex in heaven? maybe this should be a thread...
 Cardboard_Booster
Joined: 10/24/2005
Msg: 27
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 9:03:49 AM
"Find your happy place..." - chubbs.
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 28
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/12/2005 5:24:36 PM

John 15:13 No one has greater love than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends.


I like that verse a lot
 vonBismarck
Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 30
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 4:35:17 AM
Dear Master Spirit:

It is a person's right to believe what he believes no matter how far fetched that may seem to others. However, if he or she places that belief out on a public forum like this, then they must be prepared to put up with the comments of others. Do not ever get the idea that I object to you feeling the way you do. I do not, never have. My goodness, believe away in things unseen, all you like. If you are right, then score one for the big guy!

However, on a forum such as this it is a trick to write what you believe down in such a way that it is attractive to others, and becomes something others would aspire to share! For example that line about the music. If everyone had a huge talent for music, chances are there wouldn't be ANY! Everyone would end up hating it. It would be like wishing for more sunshine in the Sahara-No one does!!! because that's all there is for goodness' sake!

By telling me "You are not a realist but rather obviously lack the capacity to understand something outside of your parameters of present experience.", your logic takes a real turn for the worse! Read this again! Because I (in your words) cannot "imaginate", I am not a realist!This is an oxymoron of biblical proportion!

You go on, "The same applies to my understanding of music in heaven. People will develop to a point where all spiritual gifts will be shared and what seems impossible now will be normal later. In order to understand heaven you must be able to think outside the box. You can believe as you wish, but I'm going to have a damned good time in heaven....Boredom is replaced with just being...."

"Like the love of God, it passeth all understanding".... (lol)

There is no scriptural basis for much of what you are saying, and is the result of great imaginings, no doubt what you have said is outside the box. It's outside of the scripture and into the realm of fantasy. That's okay too, because who can say for certain, eh?

We are merely discussing topics that neither of us can prove, and it is fun, but when responding, please try and have your answers make sense. Okay?

Ed..
 vonBismarck
Joined: 11/9/2005
Msg: 31
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 4:39:32 AM
Dear Creepy:

You are a fountain of knowledge, a veritable flood of intelligence. How do you research all that while answering a thread? Must be multi-talented, to say the least! King James himself would have taken months to compile such an answer (God bless him)!

Well done!

Ed..
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 32
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 8:32:37 AM

Revelation 4:8 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)


8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
.................................................

Some Other passages on heaven:

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2 Kings 2:10-12

The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
Job 26:10-12

Psalm 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

2 Corinthians 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Philippians 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Revelation 4:2
And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


First off, I want to say that awesome you know scripture. But with the Bible, especially Revelation, all of this is symbolic. Sure there are some that will be literally as is, but some are just symbols.
 masterspirit
Joined: 10/20/2005
Msg: 33
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History
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 11:34:48 AM
VonBismark
I want to expand a bit on some of my points. I assumed you would argue the point that you are a realist, I then chose to attack that stand in favor of something that sounds more negative yet means the same. I did this because I think that it is a very negative thing to be totally lacking in creative thinking when dealing with the unknown. Just as it is to be totally lacking in logical thinking as well. I always try to find a balance. There actually is a biblical referance to the fact that all spiritual gifts will be shared at some point. I am not fantasizing here but rather seriously thinking about how life will be in heaven. The current purpose of spiritual gifts is to share them with others so everyone can be brought to the same level of knowledge and understanding. You would call this fantasy because on this level of existance such occurances are rare. See, if you can't remove yourself from this view that all desires end in some low-grade apathy then you can't move beyond it and see anything else. As far as sharing views, I do so to learn, but your approach is condescending, at least it appears that way to me. For you to argue my beliefs are based in fantasy--well it really pisses me off--quite honestly. I have spent a great deal of time reasearching and thinking about what I've come to believe, having studied many religions, not just idly daydreaming, as you may believe!!! I hope you can understand how your approach can be insulting.
 acesolak
Joined: 6/28/2005
Msg: 37
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 4:51:58 PM
Most people here are so reluctant to go to heave, right? With all the nice things, perfection, etc. that's there!

I want to ask all of you. What don't you have here, that you'll have in heaven? Several people mentioned sex, heck I can have all the sex I want. Love? You can have that here on Earth.

What's the ultimate satisfaction in heaven that you don't or won't have here on this planet?

-Solak
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 38
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 4:56:06 PM

If heaven is beyond ones comprehension , is hell too ?


I think so, why not? When you hear a story or something from a friend, and they say to you, had to be there... you vice versa, your story or their story usually doesn't give it justice. For instance, I could have just been to the best island in the world. And when I come back I could tell you, ya, it wasn't bad. There weather was cool...

But it still wouldn't capture it's beauty. Same with hell. I don't think we could even begin to comprehend how bad it is.
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 40
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 7:31:38 PM
How can that be when Hell is TOTAL LACK of God? Meaning God isn't there. Completely cut off?
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 42
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 7:38:11 PM
And that it is! That's one reason why hell is hell. No God.
 ASB
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 47
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/13/2005 7:42:52 PM
God gives you warnings, options, etc... but He also tells you the consequences that go along with things. So you can't be TOO rough on Him about it.
 grplaman
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 51
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/15/2005 4:22:43 PM
I'm Heaven we wont sin. That in it's self is a relief. But, nor we ever get bored....we are going to be busy doing tons of things for God/with God and forwever learning new things! We will have the whole Universe as our playground. Also, in and out of many dimensions. Everything here will be dull and boring compared to Heaven and what God has waiting for us. I believe God is going to erase our memories of this life of ours.
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