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Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 1
7th day sabbath and Sunday worshipPage 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Should Christians worship on 7th day Sabbath or on Sunday?
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 2
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/4/2005 2:55:24 PM
"The sabbath was made for man; not man for the sabbath."

I have Christian friends who make their personal sabbath whatever day of the week they like. I even knew one guy who chose not to talk on the phone on his sabbath!

Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 3
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/5/2005 6:38:21 AM
Ifwe recall right if you were caught keeping 7th day Sabbath during this time they killed you for it.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 4
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 6:54:08 AM
It's actually a compliment to be called a legalist, aren't these the people who are morally upright and good, even in this country keeping the laws is regarded as good and breaking the law causes punishment to come on your head.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 5
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 11:30:34 AM
My nagging question is if the sabbath must be on Saturday, or any particular day, for that matter, how are policemen, firemen, hospital workers, and (gulp) airline pilots to observe it consistently?
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 6
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:06:31 PM
I agree with that, funn1, but Jesus still stirred up controversy amongst the legalists for picking food and healing on the sabbath.
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 7
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:47:08 PM
The Jewish people do not believe the promises of the Old Testament have been fulfilled. They do not believe Jesus Christ is the awaited saviour. They are still waiting and thus will continue to worship on the Sabbath.

Kara was born Jewish, but believes that Yahshua was the Messiah, this makes her a messianic jew, we keep 7th day Sabbath because Yahshua (Jesus) kept 7th day Sabbath.
Only the Orthodox Jewish people believe that Yahshua is not the Messiah.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 8
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:50:05 PM
Well I would have to say, that anyone who feels it necessary to observe the Sabbath, will request the schedulers that this day is not one that they can work. There are plenty of people in this world who don't believe the same, in fact some don't even believe in anything. These people are willing to work all days of the week.
It is our constitutional right to worship on our chosen day of Sabbath.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 9
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 12:53:00 PM
Also we know of observant 7th day Adventists, and Jewish people who are required to work on the Sabbath do so for no pay, or they donate that day's pay to the poor.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 10
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 3:42:49 PM
Oh, I've been to a couple of churches that had service on Saturday night as well as Sunday morning. Seems like they didn't give a flip... or maybe they were hedging their bets?
Joined: 12/6/2005
Msg: 11
view profile
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 5:38:03 PM
lev 23...Feasts of the Lord and biblical Sabbath.

Jesus fulfilled the Law,not done away with it. Consider the Torah of God on Mt Sinai to be a wedding agreement, it is a covanent contract God made to Israel in the wilderness. Did you know Moses broken the first set and went back up the mount for a second set. First was the physical Law of God, then the Spirit of Law of God aka divine/agape Law.

matt 5...
Christ Fulfills the Law

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

matt 19...
Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

matt 22...
The Scribes: Which Is the First Commandment of All?

34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Words of Jesus ..and you will love God with all your heart, soul, mind and body ,and your neighbour as oneself. (Hm... the Shema!) And Jesus taught the Spirit of the Law! zech 7:12,romans 7:6,romans 8:1,gal 3:2...

And what of the offspring of the woman (Israel) revelations 12....

The Woman Persecuted

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

***17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, ***who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.***

john 15

The Spirit of the Law is agape/divine love that come from Yahweh,and it fulfills the law. To whom was Paul addressing about food and days? The Gentiles or Jews? Define 'first day of the week' as spoken of in Acts? Do we not go from Sabbath to Sabbath?

Acts 20:7 And on (1722) the first of the (3391) sabbaths (4521),the disciples assembling to break bread...

1 Cor 16:2 greek/interlinear... every (2596) one (3391) of the week (4521) each of you...
strong's numbers

3391-mia mee'-ah irregular feminine of 1520; one or first:--a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.
4521-sabbaton sab'-bat-on of Hebrew origin (7676); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:--sabbath (day), week.
7676 shabbath shab-bawth' intensive from 7673; intermission, i.e (specifically) the Sabbath:--(+ every) sabbath.
7673 shabath shaw-bath' a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):--(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

The Sabbath is a day of rest an given for mankind's benefit. But also symbolic of the 1000 year rest of the Messianic Age by the Messiah Yehoshuah/ Jesus.

romans it speaks about the law! 1-11

The highlites...

The Just Live by Faith

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 2
God’s Righteous Judgment

1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
The Jews Guilty as the Gentiles

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

Circumcision of No Avail

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Romans 3
God’s Judgment Defended

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:

“ That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”

5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

All Have Sinned

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written:

“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Boasting Excluded

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Christ in Our Place

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 7
Freed from the Law

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Sin’s Advantage in the Law

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Law Cannot Save from Sin

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8
Free from Indwelling Sin

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

*Again I say what is the Spirit of the Law? What did Jesus teach peoples?

romans 14...

Romans 14
The Law of Liberty

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

***The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith?] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

The judaic law has 613 laws! Jesus,being a jew keep the Feasts of the Lord and the biblical sabbath. He even kept the Feast of Dedication which is Chanakah. so what food and day was spoken of in Romans if not judaic law!

colossians 2:11

Colossians 2
Not Philosophy but Christ

1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
( did you just get that!-hidden...aka rhema, living word,revelation from Heaven!,gnosis... God speaks THRU His word aka scriptures via the wind of the Spirit of God!HM... breath..wind....the good book is your guide, but revelation comes from God alone,in and thru the Messiah Jesus -by the Spirit of God.)
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Not Legalism but Christ

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Traditions and doctrines of man, legalism,dogmas, creeds,theologies of man, another gospel and another Christ, doctrines of devils etc.-aka apostacy.Called the Great Falling Away in thessalonians. The Spirit of God knows all truth, in depth, width, breath, so that no one need to teach you! The Spirit of God is your Teacher, that is what Jesus left us with! His Spirit aka the Spirit of God! God's Temple is Spirit and we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth! Read your bibles, ask God to reveal His Truth to you.

Now Jesus is the High Priest in judaic circles ok, Jesus interceeds when we fall into sins. Jesus imparts favour/grace in the Heavenly Temple of God. The Spirit of God tranforms the earthen vessel! God's timing ,His way! Our lives are hidden in Christ Jesus,only God knows the heart of mankind. What were the religious leaders of Jesus day, scribes and Phariscees....all nicy nice on the outside and full of wickedness on the inside! They acted holier than thou,self glorifying themselves...pompous,arrogant, shutting out Heaven to the seekers of God. Jesus knew it! The scribes and Phariscees were legalists,they had a religious spirit and um..spirits are very real btw! Strain and flea/gnat and swallow a camel ok! Jesus didn't mince words ok, he's dynamic,colourful personalitywise and spoke bluntly!

So anyways, Jesus never did away with the law, the commandments of God Jesus fulfilled them, but he also condemned legalism, and works, as they are of the flesh. Can't get into heaven via works aka brownie points ok, and faith alone is not enough either cos even the demons believe who Jesus is and they are still going to Sheol.Faith alone does not cut it either. There is a call to surrender to God in all things,of Self. I will prove my faith by my works, Paul said it. There is 'fruit' cos the Spirit of God works thru the earthen vessel that submits to God!

And unless a seed dies, it can not bring forth life! An well thru the young tender plant sprout fro mthe ground, the soil determines if it will survive, there are the elements of wind, storms and weeds,there are birds who will also steal the precious seed. Seed is just not the Word here but the 'breath' of the new birth from above. Many plants die, but of those that fall on good ground ,they grow to maturity, flower and bare fruit on many yields. Hm... many are called yet few are chosen. That verse alone should make people ponder seriously. And matt 25...

There is a cost to following Jesus, get real and be loyal to Jesus and to God.

Matthew 25
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins

1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

(got oil, this is the Spirit of God and one needs an abundance of the life of Spirit!)

The Parable of the Talents

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’ 26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

( God gives gifts and talents, both physical ones and spiritual ones, to each of His own, be proper stewards of such. For it must bare fruit to God)

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

(hm. they had the works ,and the gifts,but where is the love? The compassion ,the charity ...? The love for all mankind?) Paul says in cor 13... tho I speak in the tongues of men,and of angels but have not love. I AM NOTHING!
And tho I have the gift of prophecy, and understanding of mysteries,and all knowledge,and tho I have all faith so that I could move mountains but have not love, I AM NOTHING!

Face it God loves mankind, He sent His own Son Jesus to be the bridge back to God , the Creator of all. Yes, this turned out to be strong fuller soap. But people need to seek God from a sincere heart, so if repentence is needed, so be it....we are but children in the eyes of God, so were are still learning, and well... both God and Jesus hasn't given up on mankind just yet! Seek God and Jesus is your scriptures, that's where they live after all, that is where the wind of Spirit speaks thru.

Joined: 12/6/2005
Msg: 12
view profile
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/6/2005 6:12:26 PM
Well I was trying to get at the Spirit of the Law aka agape love. Now God will lead all into truth, even in the sabbath and Feasts of the Lord and other holidays for that matter. He is the author of the 'good book' and He knows best.

Now I was instructed by rhema to keep the Feasts of the Lord and biblical Sabbath. But that is strictly between God, Jesus and myself. My walk is not your walk,as is my tribulations and purgings are not another's purgings etc. God deals with each individually.

But I did try to point out the common tread and what Jesus taught. We are only accountable to God and God showed us the way thru Jesus and His teachings. We are also all at differ levels of spiritual learning. Now don't get high minded cos God will show up and show you Jesus and one will be measured by Jesus's standards. I had this happen myself a long while back! You get humbled real fast! LOL.

In all things, it is best to take it before God Himself. And always remember the scriptures are the only guide,so it is good to meditate on it,and bring one's quetions to wrestle out efoe the Throne of Heaven, but also heed the wind of Spirit which brings revelation to the words written. In the meantime, lets not judge, that's God 's job.
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 13
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/8/2005 5:02:39 PM
Yahshua is the Hebrew name for Jesus, we prefer to use this name as this is His true name. The Hebrew alphabet never has had the letter J and we hold it somewhat suspect this name that has been pinned onto the Savior. There is some thought and teaching that this name Jesus is based on pagan names and not on Hebrew names at all.

Sabbath for a devout Jew begins at sundown on Friday night and ends on sundown on Saturday night.

As to anything being pitched out the window due to it being an old covenant, I really haven't studied it extensively, but just to shed a different light on the subject, is it possible we should out of love for Yahweh (God) and Yahshua (Jesus) consider that we want to keep both the old covenant and the new covenant?

Steve & Kara
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 14
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/8/2005 9:07:33 PM

God's personal name appears over 5,700 times in the Old Testament. This name was revealed to Moses at the burning bush Exod 3.1-15. In Hebrew it is written as the four letters "YHWH" and probably meant to be pronounced Yahweh (YAH-way) .
The exact pronunciation is unknown because the Jews consider this name Holy that they would not say it aloud, except at special times, such as the Great Day of Forgiveness. Even then, only a particular priest was allowed to speak God's name.
When Jesus read YHWH in their Bible they carefully substituted another word for God that emphasizes God's power. This word is Adonai and means "MY LORD"l The Jewish scriptures (Old Testament) were written in Hebrew with constants but no vowels. Hundreds of years after the scriptures were first written, scholars who copied the Bible wrote the vowels for Adonai under the constants for Yahweh to remind the reader not to pronounce God's Holy name. If it was pronounced with this mix of vowels and consonants it sounded like Yehovah, or Jehovah, but this is not natural to Hebrew pronunciation.
When the Old Testament was translated into Greek in the second or third centuries B.C., the translators did not translate this Holy name. Instead, they used the Greek word for Adonai, which is kyrios, and means Lord. Many translations show the Hebrew word YHWH as Lord, written with small letters.
The Greek of the Hebrew word Messiah or Mashiach (meaning the Anointed) is "Christos" and is transliterated to English as Christ. The Greek of the Hebrew word Yahshuah {or Iahésuah} is "Iesous" and was originally translated Iesu to the Latin and then to divers languages {meaning "He is the salvation".} Only later when divers languages adapted the letter "J" was it translated Jesus. The poetic name of God is IAH {uttered like in alleluYA meaning "you all praise the Everlasting Lord."} mentioned in the Psalms, the writings and prophets. Salvation or to save in Hebrew is SHUA, as found according to the Torah {That is the first five books of Moses} in the name Iosua that was first translated from Hebrew to English by William Tyndale. Also found in the name Iheshua in the books of Esdras {or Ezra & Nehemiah}.
Thus there are many transliterated derivatives of the Hebrew name like "Iesous, Iesu, Jesus" etc.. For in translating one language to another, there will be a unique way of expression, for example:
1.) In English the name that sounds like Yeshua is even used today in Israel; and it's interesting of the name to start with YES bearing to mind 2Corinthians 1:19 that "in him it was Yes:"
2.) In Portuguese we could pronounce the name as Iahésuah since there is no letter "Y" used in the modern Portuguese alphabet. And it is proper to have "és" that in Portuguese means "you are", like God said His name "to be" in Exodus 3:14.
{It is interesting that the uttering of "Yesua" almost sounds like "yes you are"; and also when we sneeze, it does sound like the abbreviated name Y'shu; that usually afterwards somebody will consciously say "God bless you" or in Portuguese "saúde" meaning "health to you"; And truly he is the Christ our health.}
For edification sake according to the Scriptures, the inspiration is to just receive the name in it's simple Hebraic meaning that "He shall save his people from their sins". Matthew 1:21

"To him giveth all the prophets witness, that through his name shall receive remission of sins all that believe in him." Acts 10:43
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 15
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/11/2005 7:16:35 AM
Here is the answer to these verses in our own words "I told you Saturday, I didn't mean any other day, or I would have said so"

Clear enough answer?

Steve & Kara
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 16
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/11/2005 1:16:01 PM
With the Church doing the Holy work on Sunday are you trying to say that the entire Churches of the world have been wrong for thousands of years?

I did not think so. One day os rest is what the image of God requires. The ultimate rest comes from being with Jesus.
The End
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 17
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/11/2005 7:30:37 PM
Very possibly, we ran across an interesting site at where it speaks of the Sabbath and says this.

The fourth commandment instructing us to keep the Sabbath day holy is thirty percent of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments contain 322 words. 98 of those words are are about the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was held in high esteem in both in Jewish circles and in early Christianity. The Sabbath was made at creation, two thousand years before there were any Jews. After Abraham’s time the Sabbath applied to all people, aliens, and animals within the gates of the Israelites. (An alien is someone who is not a native of the land. This is the Hebrew “ger,” a righteous non-Hebrew who has been grafted into Israel. See Romans 11:13-21.)

God intends that the Sabbath be regarded as something honorable, something significant, not for its own sake, but because of what it represents. Keeping the Sabbath is the only one of the holy days to be ordained in the Ten Commandments. It is tied to two specific and highly significant acts in history: 1.) God’s “resting” after six days of creation (Gen. 2:2) and 2.) Israel’s deliverance from Egypt (Deut. 5:15).

God’s model of work and rest demonstrates how much of our lives is to be
spent in labor and how much is to be spent in worship. In both the Old and
New Testaments, the Sabbath calls to mind God’s sovereign rule and His
merciful redemption.

The Sabbath is not a yoke of bondage. It’s a day of joy, rest, eating, and enjoying Scriptures, fellowship, etc. The Sabbath was never intended to be a restraining time of punishment. What would your reaction be if your boss came to you and said, “I want you to take tomorrow off to rest. Enjoy yourself, eat, rest, read, just don’t even think about work.” Would you feel burdened?

The Sabbath is a holy time of resting from our weekly work in order to come into a joyous worship of God. It is a time of release from the stress and pressure of making a living. It is a time to rest from our normal pursuit of physical gain and to remember our Creator.

Keeping the Sabbath honors God, our Creator, who also rested on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3). It also unifies our families and sets priorities for them. This day of rest refreshes us spiritually and physically—providing time when we can gather together and when we can reflect on God without the stress of our everyday activities.

The study of when the Sabbath was changed to Sunday is very interesting. The New Testament is totally silent with regard to any change of the Sabbath day or any sacredness for Sunday. The adoption of Sunday observance in place of the Sabbath did not occur in the early Church of Jerusalem by virtue of the authority of Christ or of the Apostles, but rather took place several decades later.

In 132 A.D. Bar-Kokhba led a revolt against the Romans. When he was done, 50 percent of the population of Judea was dead and tens of thousands of men and women who remained alive were sold into slavery. Jews were forbidden to set foot in Jerusalem, and the province was renamed Palestine. It was a dangerous time to be identified with the Jews. During this period, the predominate day of worship among Christians gradually began to change from the Sabbath to Sunday. The day changed, in part, because of the need to disassociate the Christian movement from the Jewish nation.

Years later, the Church of Rome: Canon 29, Council of Laodicea, 364 C.E., worried about Judaizing and gave the following statement: “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, the Sabbath, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day (Sunday) they shall honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ.”

The Catholic Encyclopedia states that it was the Catholics who changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday and claims this as a mark of its authority. Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine said, “Sunday observance is from when the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

Needless to say this is a highly informative site, it also includes other Hebrew Holy Days if you are interested in learning about them.

Steve & Kara
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 18
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/11/2005 9:23:58 PM
Well, actually it is written the sabbath day is the day to be for God.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20.8

But I see your point also,if one is to look at this this way there is a way....

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20.8

But like sister_wife has said this was Gods commands in the old coventent and as ent_person said Jesus provides the rest, but with God making us an image of Him, He knows what is best for our bodies and that is what is being said work six days of the week and take one to be the sabbatical for you for the Lord. just as he has done in the creation of the wonderfull world we see.

Galatians 4:4-5“ But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born
under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of
sons. ”

Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 19
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/12/2005 10:02:33 AM
your write [Is it written any where which day of the week is the 1st?

it is written at this website

How to determine the day of the week, given the month, day and year
First a brief explanation: In the Gregorian Calendar, over a period of four hundred years, there are 97 leap years and 303 normal years. Each normal year, the day of January 1 advances by one; for each leap year it advances by two.

303 + 97 + 97 = 497 = 7 * 71

As a result, January 1 year N occurs on the same day of the week as January 1 year N + 400. Because the leap year pattern also recurs with a four hundred year cycle, a simple table of four hundred elements, and single modulus, suffices to determine the day of the week (in the Gregorian Calendar), and does it much faster than all the other algorithms proposed. Also, each element takes (in principle) only three bits; the entire table thus takes only 1200 bits; on many computers this will be less than the instructions to do all the complicated calculations proposed for the other algorithms.

Incidental note: Because 7 does not divide 400, January 1 occurs more frequently on some days than others! Trick your friends! In a cycle of 400 years, January 1 and March 1 occur on the following days with the following frequencies:

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
Jan 1: 58 56 58 57 57 58 56
Mar 1: 58 56 58 56 58 57 57

Of interest is that (contrary to most initial guesses) the occurrence is not maximally flat.

In the Mathematical Gazette, vol. 53,, pp.127-129, it is shown that the 13th of the month is more likely to be a Friday than any other day.The author is a 13 year old S.R.Baxter.

The Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582 in parts of Europe; it was adopted in 1752 in Great Britain and its colonies, and on various dates in other countries. It replaced the Julian Calendar which has a four-year cycle of leap years; after four years January 1 has advanced by five days. Since 5 is relatively prime to 7, a table of 4 * 7 = 28 elements is necessary for the Julian Calendar.

There is still a 3 day over 10,000 years error which the Gregorian calendar does not take into account. At some time such a correction will have to be done but your software will probably not last that long!

Here is a standard method suitable for mental computation:

Take the last two digits of the year.
Divide by 4, discarding any fraction.
Add the day of the month.
Add the month's key value: JFM AMJ JAS OND 144 025 036 146
Subtract 1 for January or February of a leap year.
For a Gregorian date, add 0 for 1900's, 6 for 2000's, 4 for 1700's, 2 for 1800's; for other years, add or subtract multiples of 400.
For a Julian date, add 1 for 1700's, and 1 for every additional century you go back.
Add the last two digits of the year.
Divide by 7 and take the remainder.
Now 1 is Sunday, the first day of the week, 2 is Monday, and so on.

We are sure there are many other places in the internet alone where it speaks of Sunday being the first day of the week. You might reasearch dogpile web search engine to find information, we have learned much from all we research there, we just typed in the question what day is the first of the week?

Steve & Kara
Joined: 9/7/2005
Msg: 20
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/12/2005 3:48:19 PM
God might of rested on the 7th day, but no one was there to know what day it was. I personaly think you don't need a said day to worship him. Is it to remind people to do it. I always wondered about that. I always thought that was his way of saying everyone needs a brake. Why your taking your brake thank me for giving it to you. I personaly don't think he is going to be up set if your not a member of a church some where, as long as you know him.
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 21
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/12/2005 5:29:12 PM
Actually sundown is at different times all over the world. Time was created by Yahweh and He understands when sundown is for each person, no need to think Sabbath would begin around 8am. A good source of what time sundown is is then input your zipcode and it will give you the precise time for sundown and when sabbath begins.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 22
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/12/2005 5:34:48 PM
you write but no one was there to know what day it was

Actually, Adam and Eve were there.

Steve & Kara
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 23
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/13/2005 8:27:00 AM
I just checked Genesis, and all was created by Yahweh (God) was created in the first 5 days and the 6th day Yahweh created Man, although woman wasn't created at that time. This creation was the final creation until He saw how lonely man was and created a helpmeet for him, who Adam named Eve. So I must retract part of this statement in that Eve wasn't there on the first Sabbath, the first day of rest. Sorry for the confusion in this area.

Steve & Kara
 Dei Gratia
Joined: 7/28/2005
Msg: 24
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/14/2005 4:32:56 PM
Oh People I have sinned, for my words are of me a mere man and the words of God stands as Jesus said.
I ask for forgiveness here.

Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that He did not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” We saw in chapter one that the earth will abide forever. Here again in the clearest words possible Jesus tells us that He did not come to abolish the law but that the law will be in effect for ever.

Which law is Jesus referring to? The law that will be in force throughout all eternity, the Ten Commandments. How can Sunday-keepers claim that Jesus abolished the law, when He says plainly in these verses that He did NOT abolish the law? Jesus fulfilled the law by perfectly obeying every one of the Ten Commandments.

We saw in First John 3:4 that sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments. “Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” When Sunday-keepers throw out the Ten Commandments, they are throwing away the definition of sin.

When did God institute His Ten Commandment law? We know that Satan sinned in heaven before the earth was created, so the Ten Commandments must have been in force then. We also know that Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, so the Ten Commandments must have been in force in the Garden of Eden. We saw in Chapter one that those who are saved will be keeping God’s Sabbath day, Saturday, holy throughout all eternity. The Ten Commandment law is the constitution of heaven. It is the law whereby God’s entire universe operates. If it were not, the entire universe would have the problems we have on earth today.

In fact, one of the main reasons God created the earth was to show to the universe what happens when people continually break God’s law. First Corinthians 4:9 tells us: “For we are made a spectacle to the world, and to angels, and to men.” The word “spectacle” is translated from the Greek word theatron, which means “theater.” This present earth was created to be the theater of the universe where God is demonstrating to all the intelligent beings in the universe what happens when a society disobeys His law, the Ten Commandments. As the final result of the drama taking place on this earth, all of God’s creation — men, angels, and other forms of intelligent life throughout the vast reaches of space — will thoroughly understand that without obeying God’s law there can be no peace, for they are witnessing the trouble, misery, pain, and death that are the natural consequences of disregarding the law of God.

Isa 24.4-5 The wars and trouble, the pain and suffering all over the earth today are a direct result of people disregarding God’s Ten Commandments.

And I can say that I have an infection on the right foot that is a direct result of not obeying the Law.

I beg you always refer to the Holy Bible for it is never wrong. always ask for God's help when reading it He will show you what is to be, if not ask, seek, knock, and repeat till it is. Amen.
Hebrews 4.2-12
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We saw that we can never quit sinning without God’s grace, God’s help. Paul says in Romans 7:18 that there is no good thing in him. We are full of sinful tendencies. The idea is to replace our thoroughly sinful characters with a character formed by God’s grace. When that happens we won’t sin anymore. But, in order for this to happen, we must want this with all our heart and mind. In order for this to happen it must be our supreme desire to want to follow God perfectly and to keep His commandments. God will never force us to obey Him.

Jesus came to earth as a human being and condemned sin in the flesh by never sinning, showing us that we can also do this. When the “requirement of the law” is fulfilled in us, we will not be sinning. When the “requirement of the law” is fulfilled in us, we will be keeping the Ten Commandments perfectly, including properly keeping holy God’s Sabbath day, Saturday.

Galatians, like Romans, has a lot to say about being justified. Consider Galatians 2:16. “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Remember that being justified means being made righteous, and that being righteous is keeping all ten of the commandments. Remembering also that God’s grace is the power given to those who really want to obey God, we see in these verses also that we are justified by faith. We are made righteous by faith also. Faith, therefore, operates like God’s grace to give us the ability, the power to obey God’s law. This is why Paul says that “by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified,” because nobody can obey the law without God’s grace or faith.

Verses seventeen and eighteen make it clear that it is possible for us to fall away after we have come to Christ. “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.“

The next verse talks about being dead to the law. “For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.“

If this law that a person is dead to is the Ten Commandments, and being dead to the law means that we no longer need to obey the Ten Commandments, then are we free to commit murder or adultery, or any of the other sins prohibited by the Ten Commandments?

Notice how Paul became dead to the law. Verse nineteen says that he became dead to the law THROUGH THE LAW. The Ten Commandments convicted Paul of sin, and by the Grace of Christ he was able to overcome sin so that he no longer was under the condemnation of the law. If he never breaks the law, then he does not have to worry about the law. He has developed his character to the point that he naturally never sins. He is dead to the law. He is a born-again Christian, who, according to First John 3:9, “cannot sin.”

This verse is reminiscent of Galatians 3:24,25. “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

How is the Ten Commandment law our schoolmaster? The law points out our sins as Paul says in Romans 7:7: “What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” When we look into God’s law, the Ten Commandments, and compare our characters to that law, we realize that we are in a terrible condition. When faith comes, when the power from Christ to overcome sin and obey the law comes, we are able to quit sinning. When this happens, we no longer need the schoolmaster, for our characters are then in harmony with Christ.

Galatians 2:21 tells us what we saw in Romans, that it is by the power of Christ, His grace and His faith, that we are able to obey the law. “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Notice that Paul does not frustrate the grace or power of God to keep him from sinning. Paul, therefore, must be obeying all ten of the commandments. When he says that righteousness does not come by the law he is saying again that he can not keep the law by himself, without grace. Remember that the Ten Commandments define righteousness. (Psalms 119:172) Paul also says here that if he could keep the law without Christ, then Christ did not need to die.

Next let us continue into Galatians, chapter 3. Verse one says, “O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been evidently set forth, crucified among you?” Notice the phrase “obey the truth.” What is truth? We saw in Psalms 119:151 that all of the Ten Commandments are truth. “You are near, O Lord; and all your commandments are truth.” Someone bewitched the Galatians by telling them that they no longer needed to obey the Ten Commandments.

As we continue in Galatians 3 remember that verse one said that the Galatians had been bewitched. “This only would I learn of you, Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” Who is it that receives God’s Holy Spirit? We saw that those who disregard any of the Ten Commandments cannot have the Holy Spirit, for the Bible tells us in Acts 5:32 that God gives His Holy Spirit to those who OBEY Him. “We are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him.” Since it is impossible for us to obey the law without the grace or faith of Christ, we cannot receive the spirit by trying to obey the law without Christ’s help. Therefore grace or faith must come first to give us the power to obey the law so we can have God’s Holy Spirit. And we saw that God’s grace or faith can only come if we want to obey the Ten Commandments with all our being.

We saw in chapter one that Satan gives people his spirit and makes them believe that it is the Holy Spirit. Sunday-keepers cannot have the Holy Spirit because by keeping Sunday they are not obeying God.

“Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” Here we see that the Galatians had become self-confident, believing that they could keep the law by themselves without the grace of Christ. Of course they could not keep the law without grace, and so when they became proud and self-sufficient they became backsliders.

You receive God’s Spirit by being willing to obey Him, by being willing to put fourth the effort required to overcome sin and keep His commandments. If you manifest an attitude of rebellion against keeping the commandments, or if you become self-confident that you can keep the law yourself, you cannot receive the Holy Spirit. When one becomes self-confident he thinks that he is righteous in himself. This is the recipe for failure.

Continuing with Galatians 3:6 “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” We see here again that true Christians are modern-day Israel.

Verse 8: “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.” We saw earlier that to be justified was to obey the Ten commandments. Paul says that it is through faith that we get the power to be able to do this.

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.”

We have seen that no one can keep the law without help from Christ. That is what Paul is saying here when he says “no man is justified by the law. . .” He then goes on to say that the just shall live by faith, by grace, by the power of God. When our conscience against sin is strong by the power of God, we will not sin; we will not break any of the Ten commandments. Paul says in verse ten that if you are going to keep the law all by yourself, you had better keep them all that way.

We are seeing that there are many texts in the New Testament in many different books that say this same thing over and over again.

For I will learn for my mistakes and always wish to do God's will.
He shall come first in all that I do.
Thank God for Jesus!

Remember that Jesus, Himself, told us to keep the commandments if we expect to be saved. “And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said to him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:16,17) How could it possibly be any clearer?
Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 25
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/14/2005 6:37:48 PM
Wow Dei, we are rejoicing with you, if only one persons eyes are opened then this was a question that has borne fruit. We know it may be sudden but we would reccomend two places that have a book that is very eye opening and a copy of the scriptures that actually has Yahweh's name still printed in it. The book is entitled Fossilized Customs and can be found at, the scriptures can be found at
The name of the website for the scriptures is institute for scripture research.

We will be praying for you as your eyes are now open and will continue to be opened to the most amazing truths that Yahweh will reveal.

Steve & Kara
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