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 AUTHOR
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 8
Cigarette prices - F'ing NutsPage 1 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)

As a non smoker, I don't think that my healthcare tax dollar should be going towards paying for the health problems of a smoker (stroke, heart attacks, certain types of cancer, etc). I'm glad there are large sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.


Should there be extra tax on cheeseburgers because they are grossly unhealthy? If cigs are so bad, why not ban them? Oh yeah, the tax dollars!!! Also, if people didn't die prematurely from smoking, they would stay alive much longer. Obvious, I know. From the non-smokers' tax perspective though, do you think it would be cheaper to care for all these extra people who don't die from smoking? You'll have to put them up in nursing homes, give them Social Insurance, OAS, etc. Plus, they'll still get illnesses and die, that's what happens when you get old. So please, spare me your tax argument, it's not valid.

Bought a pack last week, fu*ckin $10!!!
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 9
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:06:50 PM
That's like blaming a junkie for doing heroin, whilst the heroin is coming on registered ships who pay port tax (which is also true). Ludicrous! If cigs were illegal to begin with, I woulda never started.

Such hypocrisy...
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 10
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:07:43 PM
I didn't see any arguments with my substantial points, WorkingGirl. Why is that?

P.S. There is no EXTRA tax on cheeseburgers, silly.
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 11
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:14:00 PM
The extra tax on cigarettes is at the wholesale level. That is, the manufacturer has to pay duty, just like alcohol. So I guess it's OK to gouge people, as long as you don't like what they do, huh? Remember, they're legal.


I'm not going to debate anyone on this...I really couldn't care less


Coulda fooled me...
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 12
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:16:56 PM
@suther

Minimum wage is $7.40/hr.

Lucky me, I make eight bucks!


Smokers are notoriously tunnel visioned.


No, I agree with you. Make them illegal!!! In the meantime, stop making cigarette addicts (yes, addicts) the target of increased taxation. When someone's down, you shouldn't kick them. And increased cig taxes just take money out of my pocket that I would have spent elsewhere, but it doesn't deter smoking. Instead, it hurts small business. If I had $10 to spend at the store, and smokes are only $6, I'll buy a drink and a paper as well. If they're $10, what do you suppose I'll buy?

Sounds like you can't see the forest for the trees. Tunnel vision, uh huh.
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 17
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 2:52:57 PM
I'm sorry, I guess you don't understand the concept of sarcasm. I certainly don't think smoking should be banned, though not because I like smoking. I live in a city where cigarettes are banned in all public places, so no issue there.


Doing what we do now works.


I'll bet you're American, so that means your government is less strict with tobacco companies. The tobacco companies there basically get to self-regulate, despite all the lawsuits. If the lawsuits hurt so bad, they'd fold up their tents and go home.

One more thing, pal. My IQ is 135, does that still qualify me as a "stupid smoker"?

@jacel
I wish I had that problem; I usually go for hours without satisfaction.
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 19
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 3:05:56 PM
I'm sorry about your mom, sweetie. My auntie died of lung cancer from smoking, age 47. I just don't see the price stopping people, that's all. I'm paying $10 a pack; when I started, it was $6.75, and then went down to $2.75. That's when Chretien said he wanted to combat smuggling...

@wiggens:

I know quite a bit about the subject


Are you even remotely familiar with the law in Canada? It's certainly much stricter than in the States, and tobacco use has only marginally declined since the stricter laws about advertising, warnings, etc.

Still think your a better "argue'er"?

Hahahahahahahaha
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 21
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 3:16:14 PM

My aunt had an unusual deterrant while trying to quit. She set a date, and filled a jar with cig butts...then with water, let it sit for a week or so. The day she quit, when she craved a smoke, she'd open the jar and take a whiff...OMG!! She has been smoke-free for 20 years.


Cleaning ashtrays and butt-stops is horribly gross, I've done it lots. Just goes to show how powerful of an addiction it is...
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 22
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 3:18:55 PM

Wiggens, where's the proof that smoking has decreased in the US?


Woooorrrrd!!!
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 23
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 3:22:39 PM

If you think about it for a moment, rising prices do have an effect on the things we choose to do.


I would submit that buying smokes is not a choice at all. Does a junkie choose to buy a point? The only way I see that is in the proliferation of the Native "bagged" smokes. They are a lot raunchier, but they're only $15/carton. If I don't quit soon, I'll be going to those...
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 25
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 3:48:28 PM
You are correct, sir. Plus, this is money that goes almost entirely to the government. It seems hypocritical that on the one hand, they decry cigarettes and smokers. On the other hand, the gov't makes many times as much money as do the tobacco companies. If you pay $4/pack, the gov't gets prolly $2.50; the tobacco company gets $1 profit, plus $0.50 cost.

You wouldn't put the motor in the fishing boat?

I've been somking since I was 10; I'd imagine if I still had all the money, I'd be buying the Lingenfelter Vette...
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 27
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 4:03:20 PM
Believe me, I want it. I have quit multiple times before, but always came back to smoking. I suppose the patch or the gum would be worth checking out, but I shy away from prescription solutions. My mom quit from Wellbutrin, but she was like a zombie for the time she was on it. Not to mention the high rate of suicide for users of that drug, argh. I've had enough problems with depression to chance that one...
 Polly_G
Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 28
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 4:10:37 PM
I pay a little over $10 for the cheapy cigarettes...$12 or more for anything better.

The thing that bothers me about this is that its a tax on the poor. More people who poor smoke than those with money yet its those with money who are making the rules.

If I had a child, yes, I'd put them before cigarettes but if I have a choice to live off of bologna sandwiches for a week yet continue to smoke...I smoke.

The ads only serve to remind me that I want a smoke even when I'm not craving one. The pictures on the packs don't serve as a deterrant for me either. If I get the one with buddy with the bad teeth (and how many smokers do you whose teeth are THAT bad?) I ask the cashier to take it back because I prefer the one with the limp cigarette saying smoking causes impedence...oh yeah cuz we know people who smoke don't have kids...not.

I'm all for education and doing what you can to keep smokes out of the hands of children because that's when I started and why its so hard to quit now. But instead of smoking cigarettes now there has been a leap in the amount of kids who smoke pot...but hey they aren't smoking cigarettes. I'm actually for the legalization off pot BUT not to minors...let them learn to live clean before experimenting with any drugs.

All this money spent on education campaigns...why don't they spend it on the nicotine patch to make it free if they are that committed to getting people to quit. Let it be their choice instead of feeling as though you were forced to.

We know smoking is bad for us...we got it. We can't smoke anywhere anyway. Why not at the very least make it so its not taking food out of our mouths.

To me the cost of cigarettes is actually having a huge impact on the poor. They were already eating crappy and now they are eating worse. Unhealthy body, unhealthy mind = extremely difficult to quit smoking. As far as I can tell, the government is just making the problem worse...as usual.
 CoffeeCanuck
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 30
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 5:24:18 PM
Does it piss me off that cigs are the price they are? You bet it does, it makes me mad as he!! !

They need to be HIGHER!
 ~softEDGE~
Joined: 6/12/2005
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 6:00:20 PM
wellbutrin put me in the hospital for 3 weeks back in '92,
so yeah, lemme tell ya; it DOES indeed have side effects.

i just quit smoking; have had no really serious cravings
but i've been pretty sick with bronchitis and sinus infections, both.
when i feel better i'll do every and anything i have to to stay quit from the nasy stix.
what an awful habit, inhaling lit chemicals into my lungs and bloodstream.
vile, evil, disgusting, BAD ultra!

at $35 a carton per week, think of the savings of $1,820 a year alone, people.
not to mention the health benefits rather than risks, which are amazing.
it's not the PRICE of cigs that's nuts; it's the price us nuts PAY to smoke!
good luck to anyone facing quitting and deciding to stop!
 sammysalt1
Joined: 12/17/2005
Msg: 35
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/4/2006 10:15:20 PM
Just means buming a smoke isn't going to be free all the time. So maybe kids will not start it. Means parents will keep better track of their smokes. There are some good points. Yes kids will still get some, but maybe not enough to start a habit. Sure some will, but it will be a fewer number I think.
Sorry of thinking of kids smoking, but someone has got to. Mess with the cost of smokes and people will eat you alive. That is so true. Thats why I don't smoke.
 cuter_than_anyone
Joined: 10/28/2005
Msg: 39
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/5/2006 8:15:05 AM
i have noticed, in this thread, that most (not all, babylonia being a HUGE exception) non smokers are extremely angry people

i find this a little funny

i paid $3.85 last night which is pretty typical around here. i will have to say though that if smokes were $10 i'd quit. if i had to rip out my own lungs and wear them as a hat i would not pay $10 for cigs
 cuter_than_anyone
Joined: 10/28/2005
Msg: 41
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/5/2006 8:28:14 AM
hadn't planned on it :)

it's been on the polls to substantially raise taxes on cigs. i voted a big fat NO. i don't think it's a fair tax and i wonder what we'd do to replace that money once people quit smoking, died or whatever.

i wonder though, how a lot of low income families deal with it. that could be $70 a week for a pack a day smoker and i tend to think this is selfish and ridiculous if someone who has a low income and kids, spends this much

i hope people would be more responsible. even at $3.85 it's a high price. however, i don't have a family
 ~softEDGE~
Joined: 6/12/2005
Msg: 42
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History
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/5/2006 4:33:34 PM
Do not cave during a craving. Don't think about whether you will smoke tomorrow or in an hour from now. Just think "I'm not smoking right now". If you get a craving, WAIT ten minutes before you decide to indulge. If you still have the craving after 10 minutes, then go find someone to bum a smoke off of - but I guarantee you that you will not! Generally, if you wait, the craving ends and you have won yet another round.
thanks, babylonia!
i had already been telling myself i'll do anything, well, practically anything to avoid the stix!
a walk, a glass of water, some raw veggies or even drawing/doodling, phone call, ANYTHING.
just to get through that few minutes, thanks for posting that tip and your kind words!

so far not any really bad cravings; knockin on wood and hoping i am just so fed up with the stanky things it won't be tough to STAY quit.
it's what i really want, afterall, MY choice and decision to be smokefree.
 Polly_G
Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 45
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:26:21 AM

Yes, it is a shame that parents can barely afford to expose their kids to second hand toxins. I'm almost ashamed to live here. They already took away our lead paint chips.


First of all, I know very few people who actually smoke in front of their kids. Most have a designated room with vents or go outside. Second, its an addiction...one which is legal and the government profits off of.

I've said it before, if the government was actually wanting people to quit they would make things like the patch free and not raise the cost of cigarettes. Most who smoke do so because of stress...poor people have more overall stress than someone who is above the poverty line. I've been through food and shelter insecurity and know how trapped it makes you feel.

Its very easy to cast judgements when you haven't walked a mile in someone's shoes.
 cuter_than_anyone
Joined: 10/28/2005
Msg: 56
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/9/2006 9:53:32 AM
congratulations and good luck

someday soon i will be done done done done

smoking and speed skating, for me, are unmixy things
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 60
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/9/2006 11:57:21 PM
We're being taxed to the max. with gasoline as well, but we don't hear everyone crying that the government is targeting low income people etc.......


Most poor people don't drive Navigators and Escalades.


YES even more so than some dumb as teenagers who dont have a clue


I started smoking when I was ten years old, FYI. And before you try to blame my parents, just remember how sneaky you could be when you were a kid.
 \El Toro/
Joined: 12/3/2005
Msg: 61
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/10/2006 12:31:11 AM
I'd like to see a tax on extreme sports. Don't you think that all that arthroscopic surgery and physiotherapy costs something? Generally speaking, these are people in my peer group (18-30 y/o) who have yet to pay any significant amount of tax to offset what it costs to care for them when they break their legs taking twenty foot jumps off-trail.

What if we were to tax sugar? Any doctor worth his/her salt will tell you that refined white sugar consumption is the singular reason why Type II diabetes rates have skyrocketed since the fifties.

Saturated fat? Tax that MF'er for sure!!! How many millions of cases of heart disease (and resulting deaths) in North America can be traced to that one substance? OMFG!

Can we have a tax on prescription drugs? That shit kills thousands of people a year, though families of victims get paid off for their silence. Much the same way the first tobacco lawsuits were swept under the rug.

As an aside, I do believe strongly in banning smoking in all public places. I don't mind puffing outside if it means that people don't have to breathe this filth. This has been the law here in Ottawa since 2001, and most people who work in hospitality (including smokers) support this measure. Even smokers' eyes burn in a pub with 50 people lighting up, even with adequate ventilation. I feel that that's a workplace safety issue for the employees more than a concession to non-smokers' rights, though it works out for all involved.

Like I said, it's not a choice to continue to smoke. All evidence gathered about tobacco addiction puts it in the same class as heroin and crack cocaine. Of course, tobacco use is legal; thus usage rates are many times higher than these other substances. I still don't get how the average non-smoker can have sympathy for junkies, yet still look down their nose at smokers. I became hooked on a drug that is legal, government-controlled and obtained in any town with a store anywhere in the country. The gov't certainly makes more from cig taxes than it pays in health care costs, when you factor in all the other things that kill smokers, and how young and how quickly they generally die. The hypocrisy is absolutely staggering...
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 67
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History
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/12/2006 12:14:56 PM
I go the cheaper way,...(well not cheaper than quitting but doable)

You can now buy a 200 gm bag of tobacco leaves,...the full leaves,...for about 18 bucks can
then you cut them up as you need,..roll your own with tubes,..another 1.50 or so for 200 tubes,...

and you have more than a carton for under 20 bucks,...it's a good deal for those of us who don't want to quit,...and don't know a bootlegger who I'm told,... sell a pre rolled bag of 200 cigarets for 45 bucks can$ taxes in,....(it was on the news,..ok )

 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 71
view profile
History
Cigarette prices - F'ing Nuts
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:51:09 AM
The truth is sooner or later,..
one way or another we will all quitt,..

but when someone gets on my case about it I simply tell them that the thought of putting all those people who work in the tobbacco industry out of a job,..and being responsible for their children going hungry possibly homeless is too much of a burden for me,...
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