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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 4
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Yes women have the upper hand everywhere , they may say they do not but they do not know what they are talking about or where we come from , I have been here over a year and get no mail and have sent hiundreds of mails alot of really good ones pertanent to the woman's profile , yes that is ahours days and weeks of , work , I feel the same as the op .

I have lowered my standards , does not work , women want a guy who is GQ, rich and at least 6 ft tall .

I know I am a super great catch , a comodity , my female freinds tell me so and they a very beautiful and successful but taken , for some reason I think women are stupid , they always complain about the bad en they choose over and over , I know I am many woman's confidaunt , I wish I was not but their lover ......


Guys it sucks to be a guy , women have it made , they complain about too many men approching them and too many e-mails
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 6
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 11:03:15 AM
Belfast girl , I do not care , no women ever even tried to beat on my door when my attitude was different , you are older anyhow , you grew up and see things different now , you cannot even imagine being in a guys shoes that even with a**** and very confident attitude that I had , being turned down more than 10 times a day when I tried , changes an attitude , you may make fun and all that but even though you are older and guys do not hit on you every second like you were 20 , they still may hit on you every other second , if you were in my shoes you would understand , more than 20 dating sites and hundreds of dollars later nothing , not even a start , my female friends all tell me , if they were not married or involved ..... still full of crap .

You do not know , just laugh at the thought of me during your next date this weekend .
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 7
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 11:34:43 AM
Yoiu never saw my first posts a year ago , I was so different and confident , still nothing , it is all the facade in life that most women see.

Age equals experience lady .


Like the saying says , , the devil is not smart cuz he is the devil but because he is old . Yes you may see the same in the same posts, they are the receint ones , you wish to see
the sweet , wisdomous me that I mentioned earlier ?

Still if I went to my old self I think I would still be in the same boat .

Before I was married it was the same crap too nice too short for almost all women except for one , got married she died , after that , was too nice , too short for almost all women still .


So I sucked at being me , even though women here rooted for me , just in the forum , now I do not care ?

Wanna see the real me ? the one inside not being a little turd ? hehehehe, yeah sure
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 11
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 12:03:23 PM
Sweet rebel ,

Not saying you are old but you are very attractive anyhow, but you are older than most of us dirty little pigs want . Most women clearly get asked out but as women get older more of us die out and get taken or want someone much younger .

When women are younger they get hit on alot and get tons of mail in the internet . All of my female friends complain about getting hit on alot and use me as a human sheild when they go out .

This frustrates most guys , now you know where we come from , before your marriage how did you fare ?


I am frustrated , I almost want to pay women once again to go out with me to experience me before even judging , well the first impression of pauying is not good to begin with , heheheh
 bucsgirl
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 14
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 3:17:48 PM
I don't think either sex has the upper hand. You could make the same argument for men, as traditionally they are more the "choosers". They're the ones making the initial contact, it's just up to women to say yes or no. They make the first choice and that is to ask or not ask. Of course women can do the asking. I've done both. Either way you're both making a choice.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 17
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 8:54:23 PM
Yes we have the upper hand because we control when sex will happen therefore we have the power.

@ yes-man are you kidding? Richie Sambora is in Bon Jovi's band, he is always interviewed with with Bon jovi, you totally know who he is! Im in shock!
 lexus430
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 18
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 9:05:15 PM
of course they have the upper hand unless your a wife beater
 lexus430
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 19
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 9:12:58 PM
richie was my xgirls girlfriend before "heather" he still looks like slyvestor with long hair
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 20
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 9:15:25 PM

richie was my xgirls girlfriend before "heather"


richie is a guy!!!!
 lexus430
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 21
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 9:17:58 PM
i know my x dated ritchie before heather did duh
 lexus430
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 23
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 10:14:54 PM
sounds like a raper to me
 lexus430
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 25
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/2/2006 10:32:36 PM
let them have it who needs the headache
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 27
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/3/2006 7:01:45 AM

The irony is that you control when sex will happen because we (men) allow that control. No such right of control is granted women in the state of nature. We grant you that upper hand. What happens when men collectively tire from this abuse of power?



it's not an abuse of power at ALL. it's being the gender that has a bit of self control that's all. if women were as sexually open as men nothing would get done in this world people would be going at it like animals. already with women's lib women are more in tune with their sexuality and what you see is a general sense of displacement, imagine if ALL women acted on their sexuality the way men do. just stop and think about that for a second.

a few things:

women have the power sexually until they share their sexuality then the power is handed over to the man because she becomes more emotional and then he can think clearly and then he calls the shots, about how many men use our sexual offering if it is doen too soon and then lose interest just as quickly? so should we women whine about that? no we won't because that is just the law of the jungle. instead what we will do is use our rationale and think with our heads instead of with our pelvic
area.

most men, whether they admit it or not, automatically lose interest in a woman if she offers herself sexually too soon. MOST men (and I say this confidently Darktranquility you are an anomaly so this comment does not apply to you) want nothing more than to have a woman sexually right away but secretly he is hoping for the challenge he wishes that she will hold out because if he gets that right away he WILL lose interest. It's biological, men are wired that way because they are wired to procreate so once they plant the seed they are ready to move on, now if there is an emotional tie it does make it harder for him to move on, that is what ultimately distinguishes us from animals, the fact that we have emotional thought process.

So Darktranquility maybe you just have more estrogen than testosterone...I dunno what your deal is and why you are solely interested in women who put out the first time you meet them?

So I ask you men that take such offence to this comment of us ladies having the "power" sexually, is it really power that we have or is it just that we give you what you ultimately want? I doubt any guy will answer this honestly so let's make that rhetorical question shall we?
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 28
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/3/2006 8:54:04 AM

I can wait a *little* while for a woman to come around IF the reasons for her reluctance are innocent (a virgin, a bit inexperienced, shy etc). But if her reasons are manipulative (wants to prove she can hold out to appease her and her friends or whatever social pretense is guiding her)....


so the only one you would wait for is a virgin? do you date 15 year old girls? (no offense to any 15 yr old out there) what WOMAN holds out on sex to appease her friends?

how about you start treating women like human beings Darktraquility and why don't you give us the benefit of the doubt. If we "hold" out on sex it's because we too want to be sure of what we feel. We do not want to ruin a good porcess of getting to know someone with premature sex. There is plenty of time for sex in the relationship, the discovery part is all part of the fun, once that discovery period is gone there is no turning back so why not enjoy it as much as you can? If that is being "manipulative" then I'll take the title proudly.

Darktranquility I'm starting to think you don't get laid much which is why you have this fixation with meeting fast women. Take it from a woman, don't try so hard and you will have better luck.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 30
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/3/2006 9:05:01 AM

I can wait a *little* while for a woman to come around IF the reasons for her reluctance are innocent (a virgin, a bit inexperienced, shy etc). But if her reasons are manipulative (wants to prove she can hold out to appease her and her friends or whatever social pretense is guiding her)....


so the only one you would wait for is a virgin? do you date 15 year old girls? (no offense to any 15 yr old out there) what WOMAN holds out on sex to appease her friends?

how about you start treating women like human beings Darktraquility and why don't you give us the benefit of the doubt. If we "hold" out on sex it's because we too want to be sure of what we feel. We do not want to ruin a good porcess of getting to know someone with premature sex. There is plenty of time for sex in the relationship, the discovery part is all part of the fun, once that discovery period is gone there is no turning back so why not enjoy it as much as you can? If that is being "manipulative" then I'll take the title proudly.

Darktranquility I'm starting to think you don't get laid much which is why you have this fixation with meeting fast women. Take it from a woman, don't try so hard and you will have better luck.

PS the estrogen comment was not a strawman argument it was an honest observation of what I think might be your case. I really think you are an anomaly. don't take offense to that comment. it was not meant in an offensive way.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 31
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/3/2006 1:03:36 PM
Women, especially younger ones, tend to wield this power of denial to their exclusive benefit without concern for the impact of this behavior on others. That's a pretty good fit for the definition of abusive.


Duci, I'm really shocked at your opinions on this topic...this isn't like you.
so now because a woman holds out on having sex with a man she is being abusive? exactly how is she abusing a man? what by giving him blue balls? (sorry I couldn't resist LOL) And what shocks me more is this martyr stance that you have taken for men alike, because "you poor poor men have to endure such "abuse" when a woman won't put out!?!? Are you as a gender THAT simplistic that you cannot live without sex with a woman in the courting process without labeling it as abuse? at the end of the day who cares WHY she is holding out if she is not ready she is not ready. end of story. if you feel you are being used then move on. and in order to be used one has to be giving and I don't understand what you would be giving in order to feel abused when a woman won't put out?

WOW honestly you are making your gender look very simplistic right now. And if you are that simplistic again, be thankful we are the gender that can still think with our heads a little....
At the end to the day you think younger women play these games, then that is yet another reminder that they do not have the maturity to meet you at an equal level mentally therefore you might want to stick to women closer to your age group. I cannot feel sorry for a fully grown man who complains about being taken for a ride by someone considerbly younger who neither has the experience nor the strength in character developed yet to act maturely and in a appropriately considerate manner.



you may find that the personality type that will tend to jump right in the sack may also do other things that are interest killers


Ohhh like what?...say....suddenly feel a sense of entitlement to the man or the "non-existent" relationship? these women suddenly become obssessed with trying to capture a man to hold him down to act as if they are suddenly in a relationship with you? Well if this is what you were implying by "these women do things that are interest killers after the sex happens soon..." well what do you expect, you have shared together with another human being the utmost intimate thing you can share, two human beings give each other their bodies, the most precious gift a person can give to another, how could these women NOT feel like they are entitled to some emotional reciprocation and connection? when in actuality all that's on a guy's mind at that point is "I can't get myself out of here fast enough, who the hell is this person?" THAT is what is so ASSED BACKWARDS about sharing intimacy with a stranger, the fact that it should be shared with someone you trust and who reciprocates the connection to you.
So are women being abusive or simply protecting themselves?

Your friend might not feel this way, but then your friends are either a very small minority or they are simply not being honest with you. Look at any thread on that topic here even and 8 out of 10 men will tell you they lose interest if it happens too soon. I don't make the facts up, it's men and women and how we relate.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 33
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/3/2006 2:53:07 PM
It's just said I guess is the word to see sexual intimacy in particular being talked about like trading baseball cards. Who got the better deal, who's getting what and who's giving what. If that's the way it is, I'd just as soon not bother. I can tell you it won't be that way with me, I don't use sex as a bargaining tool or a weapon. It's not something "traded" for something else. I don't think of it as a commodity but rather a communication of the love I feel for someone, something special and wonderful. Not "Let's Make A Deal".
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 41
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/4/2006 3:32:08 PM
It's not that she isn't "putting out"... it's why she elects to take that action that is issue here.


ok let's stop beating around the bush here and you spell it out for me and tell me why a woman chooses to hold out on sex, hence your "abuse" theory.


In the classic Hobbesian "state of nature," which would be humanity without social order or structure, a woman has no such right of refusal and therefore no power, in this context, at all. The strong take what they will. The alternative to men choosing to endure this would be women reverting to a very primitive state of existence. That is simple reality.


oh my god and you're quoting Hobbes? a man who's very theories were criticized because his views on how we as people would exist in a world where we had to fend for ourselves, were purely imagined? I mean c'mon never in the history of society have we lived in a world where we were one against the world, possibly even in prehistoric times we may have been close to that, but even with cavemen the prinicples that I have discussed here of how women and men relate, form a pure animalistic sense of being, were still prevalent. So please, to introduce Hobbes theories is like saying "well if we were all born with a clone of ouselves then life would be a lot easier since all we would have to do is send in the clone to deal with all the unpleasant tasks we hate to endure" I dunno...silly example but the gest of it is, that it is a purely imagined theory with no real basis on how it would ACTUALLY be since we have no idea what it would be like. It's like speculating about death.



Are you implying that a younger woman lacks the mental or emotional capacity to act in a appropriate manner? Perhaps they are not responsible?


no, I'm not implying it, I am flat out stating it. What is innaporpriate for someone of your age group is perhaps more excusable for someone who is starting out in life. Some women, people, in their younger years do not have the maturity to act in ways that are emotionally and mentally equal to what is expected of someone who is 10 or 20years older than them. I'm not making excuses for anyone I'm just saying that is how maturity happens, it's natural. There is a reason why when we are 20 we are different then when we are 30 or 50. Otherwise people would not change whatsoever mentally from the age of 20 to 50. So what I am saying is that when you take a 20 year old person of either sex and put them together in a marriage with someone of a close age, for example, you know that their mistakes and their trials and tribulations will be somewhat similar. They will be growing together at a smiliar pase, if you will.

But if you take a person in their early 20's and pair them up with a person who is 10 or 15 or 20 years older then you cannot expect those two people to have the same maturity levels, when one has the advantage of `10 years more life experience. So can you fault a person who is still trying to figure themselves out for making mistakes that a person who is already figured themselves out would NOW not make? I can't. why? because I know I was a different person when I was 20 then I am now, 15 yrs later. So if I got involved with a man that was 24, and he made mistakes that were inexcusable in my eyes, do I blame him and his inability to mature as quickly as I'd like him to or do I blame myself for getting involved with someone I knew had a lot of catching up to do to be where I am today?



There are so many assumption withing this paragraph that are designed to make the man look at fault for their actions and the woman blameless for hers....


look you brought this up, you made the following statement: "Offering herself to soon is not in and of itself a catalyst for loss of interest.... you may find that the personality type that will tend to jump right in the sack may also do other things that are interest killers." just explain what you meant by that then? Funny how in one instance you blame women for withholding sex and being abusive towards men when doing so and in the next you fault women for giving it up to soon and doing things that are interest killers!?!?! so what is it then?


You can't really look at the trend in conversation on here and expect that it is a fair representation of the opinions of the majority of men.


the trend here in parcticular was just a convenient offering to reference my statement. And yeah of course I can look at a trend here, this site, in the forums there is a plethora of examples of how men and women relate. It's funny because after coming here and having read so many theories on how men and women relate i have never seen so many truer examples to back up these theories than seeing them here come to life before my very own eyes.

But also I am a woman and I know the way men are, I also have many women friends and grew up hearing things from other women on how men are. I also have read many many theories on gender relations. It's basic knowledge that goes back to prehistoric times where we acted less with emotion and more from an instinctual place, men will quickly lose interest once they plant the seed, regarldess of what his motives are prior to this. Look anywhere for the basic laws of attraction and you will find what I am speaking of.

and oh my GOD please don't quote Ashly Judd, I thought we were having a semi-intelligent exchange!!!!
 redviking
Joined: 6/16/2005
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/6/2006 7:44:14 AM
Has anybody stopped to think that some guys lose interest in women who "put out" too soon because... we know that she does that with EVERY guy, we're not special, we don't want the dsieases those other 347 guys gave her, and we don't want the baggage, and we want a woman with enough self-respect to not sleep with a guy when no other feelings are involved? I'm not saying we want the virgin Mary here!- but most guys, if they've grown up a bit and are looking for a "relationship" not a "f*ck buddy", don't want a woman who sluts herself out!
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 47
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/6/2006 8:07:24 AM
^^Thank you very much, I rest my case!

Plain and simple, decent guys don't want an imbalanced tramp. I do however question the types of men that do go for that. So women that won't put out are less about playing games with men and more about practicing who they preach they are. If a guy has no time to stick around for that, his loss, easy lays are a dime a dozen..."go get em'tiger"! You can still show interest in a man and be affectionate with him as the intimacy grows without having to put everything out on a silver platter like it's the only thing a woman has to offer. As was said above, "it's all about self-respect" and if a person respects themselves that is proof that they have the capacity to respect others, ie. YOU.
 Sgtkode
Joined: 12/5/2005
Msg: 48
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/6/2006 9:21:17 AM
Women all want bad boys until they get a beating from thier bad boy! Then they call me and I haul his butt away. Then they take him back and the cycle keeps going. So take your bad boys, ignore the nice guys and I'll keep my job.
Thank-you
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 49
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/6/2006 11:14:35 AM
this thread morphed into women not putting out and guys wanting to use them for sex , mud slinging and all , I did my share of mudslinging here , women felt insulted by my venting , this is funny how people take comments on their experiences and feelings very personally.


Bottom line , my experiences okay , not pointing to any of you women or anyone else , do not take my intrepretation of my experiences personally , if you do too bad for you , life should be taken a little easier and not against a particular person .

Everyone talks about history , anthropolgy , cultural experiences , the logic of it all .... blah blah, blah ,

This is my experience and why I beleive in my view in my little world that you may mock at , this is my experience and alot of people may share it or may not .

This is where I am comming from :

I am the kind of guy that is a giver , I am celibate by choice , I know alot of women , all are my freinds that I have helped one time or another , I have been there for them , gave them protection , got in debt for them , picked them up when they were down , I really think I am a great guy and a catch, I have been told , I am a professional that earns good money and has several homes . Every one of the 20 or so women I know say that one day I will find me a woman that appreciates me , it has been three years and none of them accepted my advances of something more than a friendship , I am not bad looking either . I have not had a real date in almost a year and I try hard .


The women I meet all have dates on a regular basis , have lovers and get to choose from one of the suiters that persue them .

I have been in only one relationship in my life and I thought life was not like this , I am a widower with no children , it is frustrating to see how most women have it made in the dating world , they complain how many guys try to hit on them or try to approach them to talk in public and private places .

I decided to use the courage I have and strike up conversations with women in coffeeshops , bars and other public places where single women may gather , yes I may get their number after many many tries , call them and get flaked out wich is normal , do it again the next day , the next day for three years , I see these women always get hit on from at least once a day to several times , it is a normal life for a single , even mildly attractive women , this would be a pipe dream for a guy at least for me .

I go to dance clubs and try to strike up conversations with women , some just ignore me , others just rude , some though seldom like 1 out of ten are horribly rude and mean , the nicest just pretend they have to talk to their friend or have to go to the bathroom , after ore than 10 tries , even with seemingly unattractive women , I strike out , this is normal .

Then I try these online dating service organizations , I have tried like 20 of them and even spent hundreds of dollars a month on them , I send mails , alot even over a hundred of them on each site , carefully writing to them in a personal way while mentioning items on the profile .

From this I get nothing but in the forums I can see that the women are outnumbered by two to one at least and that 10 percent of the guys get the responses on a regular basis by women , especially the ones that women really see to meet their specifications , tall , handsome, successful have a very impressing profile . Women here often complain on the amount of mails they get or how many guys are hitting on them in real life .

After a year trying really and seeing the women have to do very little to get results with men in general , it is frustrating , over and over I see it , alot of guys in the end HAVE to settle with a woman that wants him in the end because his dating pool is much smaller than most women .

people here may say tough that is life , yes I know that is life , yes life is normal for me to be humiliated when I try nicely , I am a confident guy , people depend on me in my social , familiy
and professional life .

Sorry for having vented and calling women STUPID I see alot of bad decisions made by women I know and I often have to bail them out then they stay on their lost course again without consideration that I exist .

I always state how I feel to women , I have tact , strenght but I am gentle .

I feel that women now days or it always existed do not want a real man of substance , just crap they dream about .

You can mock and say anything but I will probably still be trying hard being the peac.o.c.k.
competing with alot of guys , in the end I am sure I will just give up and take any woman that comes along that wants me in the end , I guess it is called settleing ..... too bad you women still have the upper hand , guys have to do so much work and it is not always for sex .
 sddude
Joined: 11/4/2004
Msg: 50
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/22/2006 8:32:19 AM
Kiwi you lie , there is no way a guy would beleive that you get no mail unless you have restrictions , you are too beautiful , I am sure you get a ton a week , maybe a hundred a month is too little for you ?

hahaha , no way , kind of like a little boy that claims he did not eat chocolate and is smeared all over is mouth with it .

If you do not get mail , then guys who look at your profile are insane .
 DeagleNINja
Joined: 9/10/2005
Msg: 51
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/22/2006 10:28:59 AM
If women do have the 'upper hand' as you put it, then it's only because so many men are setting such a low standard. I've compared some of the emails that I get to the emails that my female friends get and there are a few differences.

1) The most obvious being that women get about 10x as much email on average. As has been said many times before, if women have to speed more time sorting through email then they have less time to give any particular email the time it might warrant. Guys who play the 'numbers game' are only shooting themselves in the foot because they assumed they were the only guy to think of mass emails...

2) Emails from women tend to be polite and genuine, not rude or insincere. Anyone with half a brain understands that women enjoy sex as much as men do, however trust is more of an issue for women than it is men when it comes to enjoying the act. When a woman requires that she know a man fairly well before doing anything sexual with him it isn't because sex is the last thing on their mind, rather it is because she wants to be as sure as possible that if and when she does decide to engage in this activity with a man that she can trust him to be a decent person and respect her feelings and wishes. A man that doesn't make the effort to understand a woman is unlikely to be a gentleman in the bedroom.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 52
Do Women realy have the 'Upper Hand'? Ladies?
Posted: 2/23/2006 5:53:53 PM
romeo If you choose to look at dating and mating and consider it as a game that's what you'll get. A game. At some point, someone asks and someone says yes or no. Traditionally it's been the men asking and the women responding, but that has changed. Maybe not to your liking but that's the way it is. If it changed overnight and it was ALL the women asking, then you'd still post that women have the upper hand. What about the female wallflowers who sit around at social events and just wait for a man to ask them to chat or dance? I guarantee if you approached a woman totally by herself and asked her that, she would not feel like she was in a "power position". Upper hand, hardly. That is in your scenario that you painted, there are those of us who are proactive rather than reactive. Ideally, it's neither. It depends on how you view it and decide what you are going to do about it. Maybe, just maybe you're attempting to approach women who are not approachable, maybe it's in your approach. Who knows, but I'd rather sit home doing crosswords and enjoying that then to have to deal with the scenario you presented.
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