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 Mistchf
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 4
are women playing GOD when they become pregnantPage 1 of 54    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
Unfortunately Spark, seeing as you are in Canada, it's the government that is giving the women the perception that they are God. I have been involved with social services in the US which led to a lot of reading on how fathers are treated in Canada. There is actually an underground agency that helps fathers re-locate overseas to begin a new life because the court system there pretty much guarantees that they will not HAVE a life if they are divorced with children. And keeps their children away from them. I don't know the whole scope of the situation but what I've read is pretty sad. Lots of suicides of very young fathers who get tired of trying to fight to see their kids.

I hope the recent publicity of the whole situation there helps to make a change for fathers in Canada. Any mother who wants to keep her child away from their father (unless he's abusive of course)isn't a mother.
 mogrl
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 5
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 9:10:32 AM
this is why you need to have a court order telling her and you about the visitation and about the financial resposibilities.
Oh and one more thing,it`s up to the man to use a condom if he`s soo worried about making babies.
 doll parts
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 8
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 9:18:15 AM

she brought a life into this world and will mold this innocent to be what she wants it to be :in
her image} that seems to be a lot of responsibility for a mere human? Maybe they are not just playing God,maybe they think they are God!


Of course it's a lot of responsiblity for a mere human! You almost come off as sounding like you believe that if, left alone, these babies could raise themselves! To these babies, mothers are God!

I understand your point, and these kinds of people are everywhere...but notice I used the word 'people'. It's not just women. What right does a man have to see his child, if he isn't willing to share half of the responsibility of raising one? No right, in my mind. And the same would go for a woman in that situation. And yes, that does involve money. I'm not saying that I think it's fair for fathers to be cut off from their children, but in reality, what else is a single mother to do, when she's got no money to buy the things her baby needs, and the father comes knocking on the door, emptyhanded? What would you do?
 doll parts
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 10
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 9:29:10 AM
Definately true...and I also think it's sad when children are used as leverage. But I can also picture myself in the situation some mothers are in. Alone, tired, desperate...spiteful, trying to take care of a baby (with probably 2 or more others running around) and then to have the father come and demand to see his baby, which I have been taking care of singlehandedly...I can't say I would be above telling him to f*ck off, or pay up. Especially if it was on an ongoing basis...

But then again, I would have taken his ass to court a long time ago, and tried to settle the situation for both of us. But that's me, I'm talking about other women. I can understand where they're coming from is all.
 Liongirl25
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 25
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 2:03:06 PM
I am pregnant right now; my fiancee literally "disappeared" after he found out (after stating many times how he couldn't wait to get married, have children, etc.) Another important point to add: I was ON birth control when I get pregnant, crazy but true.

Tigerwoods: your arguments are very well thought out and you are very articulate but I don't agree with your statement regarding what kind of person would actually want to bear the child of someone they know doesn't love them anymore? A genetic reminder of a failed relationship. How depressing and how sad to feel that way about the life inside you. I feel that it would be really selfish to be excited about your child then decide you wanted an abortion because the man wasn't around anymore. Having the man in your life who impregnanted you should NEVER be the end all be all in that case.

In my situation I just really grew attached to this baby right away. The fact that she was conceived from what I thought was a loving situation is enough justification for keeping her in my mind.

I do know, however, that everyone's situation is different and I am not about to judge anyone else's decision.
 Liongirl25
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 28
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 3:48:32 PM
Livewire: no bashing from me! You make a good point about not bringing a child into a dysfunctional relationship. People can say, well, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place, or had sex, or been on birth control, etc. etc, but the reality of it is, very few people abide by the rules that they set forth for others. It's easy for people to pass judgement when they've never been in a particular situation themselves, we've all experienced that.
 shortstuffT
Joined: 11/12/2005
Msg: 29
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 4:29:11 PM
i completely believe about the whole manipulation thing with some women. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. My son only met his father once which was last year and my son is now 11. His father for years wouldn't believe that my son was his. People tried saying i tried trapping him and i just laugh and tell them to smoke another stoggie and share with me cause that's just insane. The other side being my husband has 2 children with his ex's being both manipulating by going behind his back and going off their pills without telling him after being in long relationships with him just to have the money and control. Now he sees the kids as much as he can but the one mother only goes on about his responsibilities when she wants money and won't even let his daughter call him Daddy. So i see the men that don't care and the ones that do but the women who play with their emotions and their heads cause they love their kids even if in their eyes (the man's eyes) unplanned.
 Mistchf
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 37
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/8/2006 9:19:39 PM
"Well being from Canada also I have to speak to this statement.

I can't speak for Ontario, but here in Nova Scotia, the courts have to abide by the federal child support guidelines. Judges can no longer arbitrarily assign child support. There is a formula based on the persons income. And if a parent paying support can prove undue financial hardship , the payments can be adjusted."

Sorry but I don't buy that. The courts don't have to abide by anything unless they are MADE to. Any from what I have seen, those that try to MAKE them pay a significant price. I know because I have. If the case were as simple as you state and Judges couldn't be ARBITRARY in their decisions, there wouldn't be a need for underground services nor would there be such a suicide factor.

Judges can do what they want. If they are in violation of "federal guidelines" it's up to the person that they violated to take it higher. Not many can, or will do that. Thus, Judges don't have to follow anything. Because there isn't anyone who can afford to challenge them. Just another government ploy to dispose of the middle class (already a dwindling segment)so they can do as they please with no one to challenge them.
 Broken_Soul
Joined: 1/5/2006
Msg: 41
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/9/2006 2:42:42 AM
i will/would ALWAYS let this baby be apart, of its father's life.

even if things didn't work out for me and him
or we ended up, splitting up he will ALWAYS
have rights to see his child.

and i'm NEVER going to tell him you will never
see your child/baby as, long as he/she is alive.


right now i wan't him around more than anything and
apart of the baby's birth, but for "unexpected" problem's
that poped up involveing his job he will be gone for
quiet awhile.

But when he returns back home he, will always
be apart of our baby's life and our baby will
know his/her daddy.

We plan on getting married.

He will be a HUGE part of MINE and our BABYs life.
No matter what happend's down, the road.
 Mistchf
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 43
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/9/2006 10:55:49 AM
haha..worstguy if you were speaking to me note that I got a laugh from it. That's not pent up emotion it's called passion...and there's no doubt that I'll speak my mind about government and kids!! But I laugh a lot too In the end, everythings important but nothing really matters!!
 Mistchf
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 44
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/9/2006 11:33:25 AM
Blindheart..
A wonderful story, no matter how long!! And exactly as things should be when dealing with a child. Too bad you aren't able to teach classes on it. The adults in the life of the child should be able to work together (whether they are together or apart)for the happiness of the child. Your son is one of the lucky ones..

Corvanther..
Your story is more the norm and why I have such a passion for it. The courts, CPS, DHFS are supposed to be there for us. And they all too often fail. There's no reason for it and it shouldn't be that way. But it's a system designed to be costly, not to help people. Thanks for your input and making the point of who suffers in these situations.

Tiger...
Can you say condom? If a man is sleeping with a pregnancy con artist I would think he'd be aware. The original thread of a woman using a child AFTER the fact is abhorrant. However I don't have any sympathy for a man that doesn't want children and leaves the responsibility of birth control up to the "pregnancy con artist".

Fantasy...



Service With...
Get busy on that would ya!!!
 baddest_shark
Joined: 1/18/2006
Msg: 46
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/9/2006 12:21:07 PM
This is such a silly question...I just had to reply.

The ONLY woman allowed to blame GOD is the "virgin" Mary.

LOL
 Liongirl25
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 52
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/9/2006 3:14:24 PM
To Elsolaluna: Interesting theory. I feel sorry for you that these are the kind of women who you have had the misfortune to be surrounded by! It's too bad you believe that nonsense. I am not going to dispute that there are some women like that, but as far as the majority? Women are not all unthinking, uncaring unfeeling Stepford- like automatons that so many men of the men believe us to be. I think the main problem is maybe NEITHER ONE OF THE SEXES UNDERSTANDS ONE DAM THING ABOUT THE OTHER. Except for maybe on the most base of all levels. So we go around concocting these half-baked theories that just continue to drive more of a wedge in between. Maybe a little more active listening and empathy would be beneficial.
 Liongirl25
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 58
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/10/2006 8:30:46 AM
Elsolaluna: I agree with this last post of your's more than I did the first. You clarified some things you were talking about and now I see your position. I think that one's lack of introspection and personal growth is definately a dangerous thing. I see that quite frequently in both sexes. Same goes for holding intractable positions. No amount of communication is going to help in most cases. V. frustrating.
 Liongirl25
Joined: 12/9/2005
Msg: 59
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/10/2006 8:44:41 AM
I also wanted to say to Spark389: It seems to me that everytime a women expresses her opinion here, or describes her situation, you only take out of it what you want to hear. You seem to think that we are all die hard feminists, and man haters and we want to have your children to punish you and take over the world, etc. Sure, maybe some women think like that, but none that I surround myself with. Just because I had one bad experience with a guy doesn't mean that I won't give another one a chance. Do you think when we are little girls we sit and daydream while we pick flowers and think about how wonderful it will be to have a child out of wedlock?! Of course not. It would have made me very happy to share my baby with the father (I did love him after all) but he didn't want that. If he changes his mind later on, I will give him every opportunity to see his baby. I think it's very important.

When Peacefrog and I were talking about what happened to us, we are talking about one PARTICULAR man in our lives who wronged us. It is not a personal attack against you. Did you get me pregnant and take off? No! Are you the father of Peacefrog's child? Of course not. You can't speak for every man as though they have honorable intentions and we women were the evildoers. You can't look into these men's hearts and minds and profess that they are pure and clean. You have never met them.

You are attacking all women when in all actuality, your situation sounds pretty similar to what Peacefrog and I are dealing with, but, of course with a gender role reversal. You got screwed over, we got screwed over. We should be commiserating and learning from each other. Not blasting each other and taking potshots. It's childish and unproductive. I have been guilty of it too, but it is a complete waste of time.
 Synical
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 84
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/12/2006 12:19:40 AM

The reason why is because as soon as the wedding happens the child support ends


I think you must be thinking of alimony, which would end when the person remarries. Child support continues until the child reaches the age of 18, parents marital status completely aside.
 Broken_Soul
Joined: 1/5/2006
Msg: 85
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/12/2006 12:29:05 AM
Hey Synical!

How are you doing, tonight?.

Just wanted to say hey.
 Synical
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 86
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/12/2006 12:55:22 AM
the guy says wow that sucks ......you know I don't want kids


Then he should have been a little more careful about using protection, if he was that against having children. Since he didn't, it's perfectly fair that he pay monthly to help raise the child he created.


never got the choice


Choice A: Wear a condom.
Choice B: Don't wear a condom.

Looks like a choice to me. He made his choice, he can take responsibility.
 Synical
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 103
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 2:48:34 PM

Is there anyone out there that believes condoms are a reliable form of birth control?


Any doctor who's ever made his/her way through medical school, any family planning clinic, any person with an informed opinion.

Condoms are still the most advised use of birth control, short of abstaining altogether. Not only are they one of the most effective when used properly (98% effectiveness), but when used with an alternate form (spermicide foam, cream, jelly) are nearly 100% effective.

It's not a matter of what you "believe", it's a simple matter of fact. Doctors and family planning/family health clinics still recommend condoms as one of the safest and most reliable forms of birth control, not to mention convenient, and disputing it when it's a well known fact just makes you look ignorant.
 dud
Joined: 9/9/2005
Msg: 104
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 2:59:57 PM
no. pregnancy is real. god is not.
 Synical
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 105
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 3:58:39 PM
Yes they do .. that's why I said 98% effectiveness. Check it yourself, tons of articles and stats online. When used properly, 98% success rate.

There is no guaranteed birth control, short of abstainance .. that doesn't change the fact that condoms are still the most advised form of BC on the market.
 techgirl27
Joined: 9/5/2005
Msg: 106
view profile
History
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 4:00:26 PM
I really don't think so. My way of thinking says women are very much at the MERCY of god (insert capitol G if needed) when prego. Increasingly it seems that they are faced with the prospect or reality that the kid's dad is not going to support in any way. Who else is gonna tell the dad they have to shape up?
 Synical
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 109
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 4:49:10 PM
Original idea, but no court of law would uphold that contract should she get pregnant and decide to keep the child. The only answer, if you truly do not want children, is for you to use proper protection, regardless of whether she is using any or not.

Or, back to plan A and get snipped.
 Nazakoo
Joined: 8/12/2005
Msg: 111
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 5:03:09 PM

It seems to me that women are having kids for reasons only important to themselves


It is not just the woman who made the child... it took sperm to make the child and there for the woman didn't SOLELY make the baby... Yet in a court of law they are able to take that stand and statistically woman gain custody of the child more often then the male does.


It's a womans choice if she takes a pill or what ever .It's her choice if she aborts,adopts or chooses to sell it to the highest bidder or if she decides to keep it.


The pill Okay.. as long as it has been agreed before consentual sex had started... as for the aborts that I find to be the biggest joke this country has yet...

What gives a woman the right to terminate a life... one that both a man and woman created together? This alone I find absolutely frusterating... If it were a joint decision okay however... the legal system gives a woman full reign over a babys life while its inside the womb... as for the arguement "My body, my choice" Get over yourself... You gave that right up as soon as you decided to have sex.

My biggest question I have here... It takes two to have a child.. It takes two to have sex... It takes two to give materials for a new life... Where do we get off giving utter control to one person or the other...

In closing my next question is to what end do we give someone else the right to dictate a decision that should be made by the two who originally brought the new life into existance.

 Nazakoo
Joined: 8/12/2005
Msg: 113
are women playing GOD when they become pregnant
Posted: 2/13/2006 5:29:05 PM

That is ludicrous just use birth control and if fate plays a hand act like a real man. Good thing your father and mother didn't have your attitude


I am all for that, My question is what gives us as a society the right to put the entire decision in a mothers hands solely? Shouldn't it be a joint decision? And if not, why?
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