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Joined: 2/23/2006
Msg: 1
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
So here i am thinking what would i do if myself or a loved one was faced with the option of just existing but not actually living ((not a trick question by existing i mean having your lungs and heart kept going by machine)).If suffering a terminal illness or irreversible coma with no hope of recovery what would be the fairest option? .For me i would rather go out with dignity and grace surrounded by family not just kept going by machine and waiting for the inevitable to happen to prelong my suffering and the suffering of my loved ones who see me just as a vegetable .I know everyone has there own views on this subject and not everyone will agree ,but thats a personal or moral choice and one that can only be made by the individual.
Joined: 10/28/2005
Msg: 2
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/15/2006 3:57:10 AM

i mean having your lungs and heart kept going by machine

this is man intervention..pulling the plug is not correctly considered "mercy killing"

kept alive is more so unmerciful life
 Tonys Journey
Joined: 3/2/2006
Msg: 3
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/15/2006 4:34:32 AM
A very deep and thought provoking topic.I cannot really comment on this as I have not faced the situation where a Relative or Family Member was terminally ill and lingering on.
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 4
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/15/2006 2:44:47 PM
I have told my family that I do not want to be kept alive by a machine as to me that is not living.
I don't want them to have to watch any suffering.
Joined: 3/8/2006
Msg: 5
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/15/2006 2:48:26 PM
yup i think if you cant do it by yourself...its time to rest Peacefully
Joined: 3/7/2006
Msg: 6
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/15/2006 5:56:00 PM
I too, have a living will, but, on discussing it with my GP, he tells me that another treating doctor can ignore this missive.
I believe that is quality of life that is important, which means that when you go to sleep at night you WANT to wake up the next day.
I have been left disabled by a stroke, most would say I am not badly disabled, and with what I can do, I am not, but, the not being able to do the things that I once loved makes my quality of life not worth anything. I feel that when I was taken into hospital at the time of the accident that left me this way, the treating doctor would have known how limited my life would be, and advised my parents, and (then) partner how it would be, and THEY would have known I would not want to continue existing as I do now.
Last year, my mother suffered a second stroke which would have left her totally paralysed, not just 50%, and I initiated the conversation to remove life support, knowing that a woman as alive and vital as her would NEVER be happy spending her lif in a wheelchair, or bed.
I don't know about this phrase "dying with dignity", but I sure do know about a living death.
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 7
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/18/2006 4:38:58 PM
Its strange but our poli's tell us we live in a democracy that enshrines our human rights but on the single and most important decision of our lives, we have less rights than a dog lying on a road from terminal injury.
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 8
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:08:36 PM
Wake Me Up Please

Wake Me up Please, is my cry, shame you cannot hear
For I’ve been in a coma, almost seven years
Lying in this hospice ward, lying here alone
Far from my family, far away from home

Hearing every word, knowing what’s been said
Listening to the people, who’d like to see me dead
You feed me through a tube, or straight into my veins
What I'd give, Just one chance, Taste real food again

The fat nurse with the pony tail, such a love is she
Skinny one, lousy ****, degrades my dignity
Pakistani Doctor with his cold hard stethoscope
Interns, who cannot wait, to have a little grope

Brian used to come here, every single day
Never did believe in God,,,, Still he used to pray
Now the twinkles gone, from his shining eyes
Looks at me emotionless, no more does he cry

Does he still remember, the nights of love we had
In those days so long ago, before it all went bad
I remember holding hands, kissing by the sea
I remember everything, as if it was a dream

Jamie comes up now and then, grown to quite a man
Every time he comes. He holds me by the hand
He always says “Ah Mum, Why can’t you give some sign?”
Question never answered,,,,, monitor beats in time

My precious, precious baby, was only two years old
Now she’s simply gorgeous. Hair a silken gold
She still comes by to visit, forgets me more each day
Just a fading memory. Simply won’t go away

I hear the doctors talking. They say that it’s now time
Who will be the one. To disconnect my lines
I cannot say I’m scared of Death. I’ve nothing left to fear
Wake Me Up Please, is my cry, shame you cannot hear

.........................beep ................... beep..................... beep
There are always Two Sides

But in saying that, my kids are instructed to pull the plug ASAP
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 9
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/18/2006 8:09:45 PM
I read a poem once about a soldier with mortal wounds, caught in no mans land in the trench's of France in the first world war. I can't remember it exactly but it read something like this

'My life is ebbing away,
my pain my only reality,
my dreams are consumed in its fires.

Waiting for the end,
but hoping that I'll be carried,
through the gates of death,
on the back of a mate,
who cares enough to try'

Maybe the hope of people in this situation is that they are not left to face death alone but are accompanied to the threshold with love, care and compassion. It doesn't matter who pulls the plug, its what is in their hearts when they do so.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 10
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/19/2006 2:31:16 AM
Joined: 3/7/2006
Msg: 11
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/19/2006 9:22:02 PM
when do doctors become the grim reaper there job is to preserve life by all means when does 1 person decide your lifes over . lm a very very strong believer of saving all life until you can do no more and that means the person or creature has died .yes there is suffering and pain but there is always a chance there could be a cure. people who have serious brain damage may be the exception .l watched current affair many months ago and there was a dr holt who had a cancer treatment his success rate was high very high .he was not looking for publicity many of his patients wrote in about him he was based in wa .the goverment investergated his treatment and said that kemo was better.current affairs had thousands of files of people who had been successfully treated .some people went to him with their gp giving them no time they could die anyday this was many people. they went to him and where cured they went into remission .some with days left are still living after 10years of the treatment and no what it says is the goverment dont want to loose all the revenue they make out of the drug companys .dr holts treatment would of cost the worlds drug companys billions so much for our goverments money before life .footnote dr holts treatment has been taken over by many people but they are not allowed to advertise it as a cancer treatment. his treatment involved microwave only2 sessions
 Tonys Journey
Joined: 3/2/2006
Msg: 12
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/19/2006 10:28:08 PM
Countryboy very interesting aspect you bring up there my Friend.Do you know of any Websites to do with DR Holt?
Joined: 3/7/2006
Msg: 13
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/19/2006 11:56:08 PM
yes tony there is l just found some a minute ago l searched threw google dr holt australian search there is many things on there it became a very passionate thing for ray martin he chased it up for months he was on the goverment back l think there was some silencing inthe end unbelievable l guess its like petrol l know this forum is not about that but l bet they have a perfectly running none petrol car but wont release it the petrol companys would lose billions and the goverments l guess if that happened they would allow smoking back in licensed places
 Tonys Journey
Joined: 3/2/2006
Msg: 14
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/20/2006 12:30:38 AM
Thank"s Country,much appreciated my Friend.
Joined: 1/31/2005
Msg: 15
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/24/2006 12:05:43 PM
no idea, buy youthanasia is a good megadeth album
Joined: 11/25/2006
Msg: 16
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/3/2006 8:56:37 AM
Hmmm, the problem is: it is a bit hard to change your mind, after your dead
Joined: 4/24/2006
Msg: 17
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/3/2006 9:28:39 AM
ok this is simple for me, everyone i know knows that if its a machine keeping me alive, then keep me alive long enough to prep the organ reciever, im the doner, let me go when everything is done. if if im on my way to death euthenise, if im gonna be a vegtable euthenise, i dont see why they dont do it now, there are so many people who are dying and are in agony and all they want is to be let go of but they keep working on them till these paople are completely gone, some may go through resus 5 times. i figure if its good enough to do it to an animal then whats the difference if its me asking for myself. i ask for it when my animals are hurt beyond repair, why cant the same consideretiopn be made for people?
Joined: 1/2/2006
Msg: 18
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/3/2006 4:18:55 PM
i think the main problem with this is not so much for the ppl who cant speak for themselves.. but the ones who can.. many ppl.. have expressed wishes beyond reconigtion to die. but cant do it themselves... (quadraplegics etc)

i have seen lots of documentaries about the subject.. and some ppl who wish for this are going to die.. no doubt.. but would rather do it at a time with a little dignity and less pain.

why is that so wrong? especially if they do not have religion to worry about. (non believers)
Joined: 9/13/2006
Msg: 19
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/3/2006 4:20:28 PM
If we cant support ourselves (breathing and heart), is that really living?
Havent we all had science / biology class where we made a dead frog twitch with electricity? Is that frog alive?

I have made it EXTREMELY clear that I am not to be kept 'alive' by machine only. PULL THAT PLUG.

They also realise I dont want funeral, burial, cremation etc - my body parts are ALL available for transplant and or medical science - perhaps I can do as much or more after my demise than I did while alive?

Joined: 7/27/2006
Msg: 20
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/3/2006 8:22:43 PM
I think euthanasia occurs more than we know. I've heard of overdoses on medication etc. and know when my sister was dying of a brain tumour, she had a sign over her bed saying do not resuscitate
Joined: 11/12/2006
Msg: 21
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euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/4/2006 4:59:40 PM
This is such a hard topic

very thought provoking

As a nurse.....i am against euthanasia as my job is to maintain life at all times

as a person....I am so for euthanasia and not even just cases where a machine is keeping you alive

I know a lady who has Idiopathic Neuopathy....every bone in her body hurts, every muscles makes her scream out in pain....its not something that comes and is there constantly.....she is currently having 800 mg of pethidine a day and a miriade of other medications to "keep her comfortable" but it doesnt.....she has a shot of pethidine and 5 minutes later needs another shot....doctors have given up and say there is nothing more they can do for she lives her life in excrutiating pain....her husband's distraught because he sees her in pain and is helpless to do anything.... its so so sad

I thank god ( if there is a god ) that when my furr babies are in pain or sick or dying....i have the choice to have them one , animal or human should have to suffer so

If ever i am in that state i hope beyond all hope that someone will make the decision to ease my pain

The most amazing thing in this world is......its ok to kill a criminal with lethal injection but not ease the pain of someone whose life is nothing but pain.....criminals as usual get the better end of the stick yet again.... but thats a totally different
Joined: 9/13/2006
Msg: 22
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/4/2006 5:43:34 PM
Gypsy - I wholeheartedly agree
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 23
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/7/2006 2:43:07 AM
This was featured on SBS last week.

Not featured was a reders digest case from a few years back about a burns victim.

A serious one.

Despite the pain killers changing his dressing was like being skinned alive but, because the guy was so badly hurt he could only communicate his pain by facial expression.

The most disturbing one on SBS was a woman who had gone through agaony beating cancer. She was clean but there was a big risk that the cancer would come back.

So she went to Mexico to buy some illegal euthenasia drugs and then chickened out on bringing them back.

Where this was disturbing was the whole scene. She had no advice about beating the cancer again if it recurred. NO up to the minite advice on advances in medicine. She WASNT a death waiting to happen.

But she still bought the drugs.

If euthenasia is indtoduced, as a legal option, but requiring medical, and possibly, court approval, then that will keep the damn cowboys out of the whole scene.
 grease monkey73
Joined: 12/1/2006
Msg: 24
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 12/8/2006 2:07:08 AM
if someone chooses to die before they become a burden on their familys and friends shouldnt they have the choice to do so without the comments of those around them who havent been thru their suffering and pain with after years of drooling and spitting up blood feeling like shit being unable to see those around them and in a vegge state of mind not knowing one day from the next shouldnt they have the right to ended it ...
Joined: 1/6/2007
Msg: 25
euthanasia /murder or mercy killing?
Posted: 3/6/2007 6:54:34 PM
Seeing as euthanasia started to come up on the 'should drugs be legal' thread I thought I'd switch to this one.

From the posts already here I see there are several circumstances being discussed...

...people actually being resuscitated and/or kept alive by machines but unable to communicate and having relatives left wondering whether to switch the machines off. Most people seem to say that they would want their life ended in that circumstance. I suspect I would too.

....and people with serious injuries or physical limitations reducing any chance of ever having quality of life who are asking to die. And my heart goes out to Maree12 in message 6 on that point.

...and people in pain from terminal illness wanting to have the process shortcutted and also asking to die but too weak to do it themselves,or at least needing assistance.

Such terrible situations, all of them. The latter two would necessitate someone actively killing that person rather than flicking a switch, so the issues are more compounded. It might entail assisted suicide where you simply assist and be with someone ending their own life (still illegal) or where you actually end their life yourself. And sh1t, in a practical sense how hard would that be...I mean, ask yourself, not just would you do it, but what METHODS would you be comfortable using to kill someone you love even if they have asked you to? That's a big and hard question.

I saw a woman on TV the other night whose mother had a very distressing illness with no hope for recovery. The daughter injected a high dose of morphine intending to end her mother's life, but it didn't work. She then suffocated her with a pillow. Can you imagine finding yourself in that position? Terrible terrible situation. She actively campaigned for legalising euthanasia in NZ thereafter, wanting doctors to be able to end life for people like her Mum rather than have family members ever faced with doing that sort of thing for their loved ones. She wrote a book, and as a result was jailed for what she did. My heart went out to her too.

I have never been in this position myself. My husband never once expressed a wish to die, quite the opposite actually. As each stage of physical degradation befell him I waited for it with dread, for the day he might ask that of me. I would have done whatever he wanted me to do. Having been there I can say that with absolute certainty. And he knew it too. But all he wanted to do was live on. Had you asked him two years prior, before this became his reality, whether he would want to live if he couldn't move his own head and legs, had to be bathed and carried around, vomitted shit, had to wear a nappy, had a catheter, had a pain relief permanent feed in his leg, and all of that degradation, I'm sure he would have said, nope, kill me if I get like that. But when he was there, when that was his lot, he wanted to live.

And as for quality of life...well a few days before he died there was a massive storm and he asked to be taken outside to watch it, which he did, with a rapturous expression on his face. And he had periods of playing computer games from bed and singing and laughing up to the last day of his life. I must say it changed my views somewhat. I am not against euthanasia, very for it in fact, but what stunned me was how strong the will to live was, and how the opinion of an able bodied person on what would be acceptable as quality of life may not necesarily or automatically be the perspective of the person who is there at that time. It's not safe to assume we know how we'll feel when we get there.

At face value I would say that any law that causes someone like that poor NZ woman to go to jail for what she did for her Mum is ridiculous. But then it's never been that simple has it. What if someone can't communicate to you that they do want to die now... how do you know they want to die? Even if they expressed that opinion at another time in their life - remembering that perspectives can change. What if they changed their mind once they got there but couldn't tell you? Or what if they are on morphine which doesn't leave them lucid and is causing them to think in strange ways? And what about someone who would euthanise Mum in the blink of an eye for the inheritance, or because they just couldn't be bothered with the effort of any care she may need? And people like that are out there. If it were legal, would they get away with murder? So it starts to get very subjective, and the legislators would have to take all of these sorts of possibilities into account in trying to draft a law to suit. No wonder it's not so simple.

Oh, and can I just say to all those who worry about being a burden on those they love...I see that so differently. To have someone trust you enough that you want to, and will, care for them through the hard times is a privelege for the one doing the looking after. Of course we hope these sorts of situations never happen but if they do, that trust you put in another person to care for you at your most vulnerable, is a gift, not a burden. And they get to keep that gift when they eventually lose you. Seriously. I'm so not the nurse-y type, but I was blown away by that degree of trust and intimacy. If you want to choose not to live because of pain/incapacity that you can't bear that's your right, but don't be motivated to leave because you think you are a burden on people who love you.
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