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 AUTHOR
 ©hristina
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 1
Dating Someone On Welfare **Page 1 of 33    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33)
I KNOW THIS IS QUITE LENGTHY, BUT I'D REALLY APRECIATE THE FEEDBACK!

Background: I am a single mother to two children, no involvement or support of any kind from the deadbeat. I work full time, this is my sole means of income, and do not use daycare. I am fortunate enough that my job is one that allows me the leniency to have my children with me most of the time. (Mine is a rare case, I understand that) I have no financial help whatsoever, so all expenses, even emergency medical, is on me.

My neighbour is also a single mom, to two children. Limited involvement, and no support from the little girls' father. She does not work. She collects social assistance payments. She is currently looking for work, as the provincial social assistance program will cover 50% of her daycare expenses, if she makes less than a certain amount annually. Which she will. She has no education to speak of, very little work history of any value, and is likely to end up as a barmaid or other minimum wage job.

*******************************************************************

A minimum wage job will land her approximately $1000 a month after taxes. Minus her $600 monthly expense for her half of daycare expenses. Leaving her approximately $400 a month for bills and provisions for her child. (Plus her Baby Bonus, but we all get that) No to mention.... Transportation to and from work/daycare. Additional related expenses.

Social assistance currently gives her $900 a month, and provides her child with FULL medical/dental/optical/prescription benefits. They also help with costs of things like winter clothing. On social assistance, she comes out $200 ahead in monetary terms, and has benefits her children would not have otherwise. AND she gets to watch her children grow up, which she would miss out alot on by working full time.

*********************************************************************

1. She said she is looking for work partly because no one wants anything to do with a single mom on welfare... Would you date a woman/man on social assistance, if for the time being, it was the most logical and beneficial route for them to take?Would you rule someone out as dating potential for being on welfare? Do you think they are lazy by default?

2. If it's all supposed to be about doing whats best for your children, Isn't the higher income that welfare allots, coupled with medical benefits, the better choice for the children involved.?

I am not saying all people should collect these payments, and I see alot of people who shouldn't but do. I know there is abuse of the system but for people like my neighbour, it seems the system SHOULD be there for her.

Personally, and I KNOW I'll catch heat for this.. I think she should stay at home, raise her own children, and accept the help from the government until her children are school age and working is more feasible. She makes more than I do that way, has benefits, and can be a full time mom and not miss out on anything. That, I think IS what's best for the children involved.
 OnTheBus
Joined: 9/12/2004
Msg: 2
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:10:57 AM
fascinating topic a real moral dilemma.

look at it from pure biology. a mother will do anything she can to raise healthy offspring.

but, she should do what SHE feels is best for her and her kids. If working increases her self esteem and makes her a better mother, then good for her. If she is comfortable with the opposite, then fine. It is none of our business.
 Shanadoah
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 3
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:14:10 AM
Such Bitterness!

Leniency? why not cut her some slack and watch yourself!

Get a life!
 ©hristina
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 4
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:19:04 AM
How am I bitter?

The leniency in my job is for a variety of reasons, and I am grateful for that, as I don't think I'd be able to have the job otherwise.

As far as she goes, her and I discussed it at great length, and she told me being unemployed ruins her chances with people on a social level, and that is her motivation for finding work. I don't care that she needs welfare. That's why I was surprised others do.

As far as cutting her some slack, I'm the one that thinks the system SHOULD be helping her, for the time being. I am not judging her or putting her down in any way.
 OnTheBus
Joined: 9/12/2004
Msg: 5
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:22:02 AM
saying "get a life" is mean spirited.

I think it is a valid question
 Shanadoah
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 6
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:22:06 AM
I stand corrected and apologize.

Riddle me this!

Why do you care what she does?

As for dating someone on social services....hell no!
However, who the he-- am I?
 Mandrake48
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 7
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:24:02 AM
whoa...shanadoah..I just read the whole thing and I don't see the bitterness you just alluded to! Take a chill pill!

Yes, I would date someone like that...doesn't matter to me...it is about the connection and chemistry. If that is present then everything else will take care of itself with time and communication.
 ©hristina
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 8
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:26:34 AM
Why do I care what she does?

Because I care about people, on a whole. And I find it troubling that someone would be forced into a negative situation just to save face on a social level. And yes I feel, missing out on raising your children and working your ass off for less income and no benefits is a negative thing. It troubles me that people look down on someone on welfare without knowing all the facts.

She will do what wshe wants, but the points she brought up sat uneasy with me, and I wanted to know if others felt as I did... that being on welfare is not necessarily always a bad thing.

I'll be the first to admit, if I couldn't have my kids with me at work, I'd stay home and take care of them. I can't afford daycare and wouldn't miss my sons first steps, first words or other such milestones for anything.. ESPECIALLY if it meant a decrease in financial stability and less means to provide.

EDIT: And if I AM bitter abotu anything, it's that she makes more on welfare than I do, but if she works her financial situation will drastically DECLINE, and here's the issue. I barely make ends meet sometimes. I go without quite often because of MY limited income. And the government and society on a whole tries to push these mothers out into the workforce, knowing that daycare expenses will eat up a good bulk of their income, leaving mother and child, or father and child, WAY below an acceptable level of income. No child should grow up in poverty.
 Shanadoah
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 9
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:29:04 AM
Mandrake

Got any?

read between the lines simp
 AREALANGEL
Joined: 2/5/2006
Msg: 10
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:29:27 AM
I would like to see a state where you can collect $1000.00 a month on minimum wage..???

The ones I know may collect up to 600.00 if that..

Most minimum wagers work part time..if you have seen the want ads lately..they are wanting part timers..no insurance..fire at will.. Miss welfare mom needs to be re-educated and get self esteem classes and get on birth control. Social programs in the community are dwindling down to nil..so it's up to mentors who have made it in this world.. to come together and get these moms' going on the right path to freedom and make the best in life..to be all they can be..

The community needs to get together and start workshops for these mom's to become active in the work force..it does not take overnight to do this but it's a start..Quality day care and a good job is what makes a woman want to become worthy..
 Mandrake48
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 11
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:35:36 AM
shanadoah...stop over analysing things...keep it simple!
Yes I can read between the lines, and still give this the validity that it deserves without judgement of the person/s involved. Try it you might learn something!!
 Shanadoah
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 12
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:37:19 AM
K Mandrake...I'll try best I can.
 ©hristina
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 13
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:38:10 AM
$600 a month only reinforces my point.. But here in Ontario, the minimum wage is considerably higher than in most states.

But some mothers DO have healthy self esteem and I think the birth control comment is unfair. No one (or at least most) do NOT plan to be single moms, and any number of unfortunate circumstances can lead to that.

The community DOES need to pull together. I am a subscriber to the whole "it takes a village.." theory.

Re-education is ideal, FOR SOME, and some type of job placment would be great.. but until society can pull up its socks and adress the issues at hand, who are any of us to stigmatize the collection of social assistance for those that TRULY need it.

Remember though, even the most educated, confident person can still wind up a single parent so it's not always about improving the parent.. soemtimes it's about IMPROVING SOCIETY'S VIEWS OF THE PARENT!
 Shanadoah
Joined: 9/25/2005
Msg: 14
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:40:08 AM
You can have a PHD and still have a hard go as a single mother/father.

Whats your point?
 GatoLoco
Joined: 3/14/2006
Msg: 15
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:42:55 AM
I would if she is cute
 mafinkc
Joined: 9/6/2005
Msg: 16
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:47:05 AM
For me, no, I wouldn't get involved with someone on welfare. I noticed you're in Canada, so I don't know what the norms are there. It sounds like it's similar to what things are around here (although I don't know what a "baby bonus" is).

I do find it odd that your friend is more concerned about working in order to improve her lot in the the dating life than she (from your comments) seems to be about being self sufficient, providing for her own children and not being a financial burden to others (who have to pay the taxes - and, as a result, have less money for their own families - that provide her with a work-free life).

You also stated that she has very little education - why? What's the rest of the story? Did she drop out of high school? If so, then I'd say she chose her own place in life and needs to choose to change it.

Yes, it's difficult but difficult times are what reveals our strength and character.

Everyone *should* be responsible for their own lives and families. Why isn't the father providing financial support for the kids? Is she pursuing support? Those children are his responsibility and, if he is refusing to provide for them, he's shirking the burden onto the public just as much as she is.

I have full custody of my two children and have never received a penny from my ex (we don't even know where she is), so I can relate to some extent. I'll likely never get any of the payments she owes, and that's fine. We've had our moments of living off soup, raman noodles and oatmeal around here before.

So, back to the basic question: no, I wouldn't get involved with someone who chooses to live off welfare.

OK, flame away.....
 Lexy47
Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 17
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:47:11 AM
First off.....good thread and nowhere do I see any bitterness.I would have to say do whatever it takes for the children....the only problem I have with this... she's not being a very good example to the kids.
Would I date someone on welfare.......probably not
 Mandrake48
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 18
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:48:03 AM
snow flake...really enjoy your sense of social justice and collective conscience. I agree also with your comment "it takes a village". There is still way too much apathy in this country and it causes a lot of problems.
 catman40
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 19
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 6:55:14 AM
BOY . you people are mean . what is soo bad being on welfare ? There is alot that may have happen . take me . I am disabled . I have epilepsy . I joke about myself all the time . " we make good matines . hold the bottle in hand when have a seizure . there you go sir shaken not stirred . " I know some who are in wheelchairs due to a illness or accident . Your asking " what can someone offer that's on welfare ? " well ... first off they are very loving . second , we are what is called A built in babysitter .
 fristknight
Joined: 2/10/2006
Msg: 20
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:02:56 AM
does money really matter in a relationship if you enjoy see and being with each other

does it matter if the person make more or less than you

does it matter if the person is smarter or you are smarter
 ©hristina
Joined: 2/19/2006
Msg: 21
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:03:24 AM
Thank you Mandrake...

Mafinkc... not going to flame.. just address a few things...

I don't think it matters that I am in Canada, as I'm sure the borders don't change people as much as we sometimes tend to think. I'm sure it's relatively the same anywhere.

Baby bonus is a government subsidy to help lower income families... here in Ontario it's higher than most places.. myself I receive $513 a month for my two children.

I also found it disturbing that my neighbour was looking for work solely to increase her social standing. She fully admits that staying home on welfare is the better choice financially, but said she is tired of the dirty looks, the shame, the stigma attached to being on welfare. She said some peole can be downright cruel about her situtation, calling her a lazy pig for collecting welfare. She's tryign to put an end to that as it's tearing her up.

She has very little education yes, not quite sure why really. I know she has her GED (general equivolency diploma) but that in a lot of places around here, that is NOT equivalent with a diploma and therefore doesn't enable her for alot of factory/casino jobs (as is the bulk of work in this area) She has no college, and I don't know why. I'm going out on a limb to say perhaps it is financial but I don't really know.

She is pursuing support.. Soa m I for that matter... but it doesn't always work out that way. My ex actually quit his job and went on welfare to get out of paying.. an example of abusing the system.... soemtimes getting these deadbeats to pay up is next to impossible.

And sad as it is, that is just the case sometimes. It takes all kinds, I supose, but I really do believe if we all subscribed to the older ways.. the traditional values.. if we all pulled together perhaps the issues wouldn't be so troublesome. Free daycare perhaps? Harsher penalties for non supprting parents? I don't know.. but as it stand, it IS the way it is..

And if I were her, and had to choose between being home with my kids and collecting welfare, or working and not beign there for my children and having less money than welfare... I'd be home with my kids. No question about it. Flame away!
 Mandrake48
Joined: 12/19/2005
Msg: 22
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:04:09 AM
Catman40...godbless! Nice to hear from you...and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with dating someone on welfare pal! Nothing at all! I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you find that special one!
 carrie bradshaw
Joined: 2/21/2006
Msg: 23
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:05:38 AM
This thread is stressing me out.
Carrie
 lil.miss.vixen
Joined: 11/12/2005
Msg: 24
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:07:19 AM
i debate this issue with many people, and they say its not a bad thing. i don't think its a bad thing IF it is your last resort. i think that if you have tried everything you can to do it on your own and you just can't do it....then by all means giv'er. HOWEVER!!! as soon as i say welfare breeds, people look at me funny....and then realize that thier mother/father was on it. for some its not the best option, especially if they are lazy and just decide to LIVE off the government. but for those who need it just for a little while and do actually stop it, then i say good for them!!
would i date someone?? it depends on thier lifestyle. if they live like they're on it, and take advantage of it, then no. if they actually appreciate the help and not being an ass about it, then maybe i would.
 Indigo Rose
Joined: 12/14/2005
Msg: 25
Dating Someone On Welfare
Posted: 3/18/2006 7:10:14 AM
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age, or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. (Universal Declaration of Human Rights, United Nations General Assembly, 1948)
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