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Joined: 11/6/2005
Msg: 1
Church History At A Glance!Page 1 of 1    
After reading the Bible especially the new testament, I became perplexed with the question of how we came to have all the churches that we have today. I just couldnt understand how we have all these churches when the Bible only talks about one. Little did I know that the Bible was talking about the universal church of beleivers.

So anyway to make a long story short I started to study church history. It was upon doing this that I ran into a well knowen event called The Reformation.

Now for anyone who is famillar with The Reformation, my question is, when is the next Martin Luther going to come and when is the reformation that the church is badly need of going to take place?

Now this may seem a bit protestant, but hey the church is in shambles and I would be liar if I denied it.

For real, I want to hear some thoughts,

Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 2
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Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/19/2006 10:14:31 PM
I have no idea when the next reformation will happen, but I agree that it has to be soon, I am a "believer" but have not set foot in a church in years. The reason being that every single one I went to I found that there was more hypocrasy in the churches than there was outside of it. Prime examle is the Crucifix, which has taken on an "IDOLISTIC" form, along with statues of Mary Christ and many others, when the bible specifically points out that IDOLATRY is wrong. Ritualism is also a problem, especially in the catholic church, where there is ritual for almost everything, like confession, which is to be done to GOD not any of his deciples, and the Hail Mary prayer, the communion prayer, all have threads of ritual to them and should they not be questioned? I don't know, I believe in God and do my best to live by his teachings, and until I see people in churches practicing what they preach, and being the loving neighbours they are supposed to be, I will not set foot in a church. Heck, I didn't even get married in a church lol Anyway, those are my thoughts. Sorry if they offended anyone. I will not go on any further, but anyone wishing to continue this discussion further, I invite you to message me, because it is a worthy topic to converse over.
Joined: 11/6/2005
Msg: 3
Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/19/2006 10:29:14 PM
I see what you are saying about the breaking off the churches to from ones that are more Bibical in pricipal, but what about people like King Henry the 8th, He started the anglican chuch because the Pope wouldnt grant him an anullment so that he could marry Anne Bolin. Truth be told he started it because he was a horny **stard.

Think about all the people who go to that church today. How many of them would you guess have any clue how the curch was founded? What about the people that fall for the traps of the church founders. Are they as guilty as the founders? I mean after all the church was founded out of sin. Does this mean that all these people only think that they saved rather than Know. Is is possible that these people will live their lives thinking that they will get Heaven only to get punished at the gate.

Sorry that this is philosophical,but sometime these type of questions plague me.
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 4
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Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/19/2006 10:45:14 PM
There seem to be two points of view in the exteme on how to handle faith; one: Everyone
must think and behave the same because it is right and good, we the elders have learned this
and will inforce it. Anything different cannot possibly be right. two: Each person is responsible to their own conscience first and foremost. The ultimate determination of right
and wrong rests upon the individual. / Now take that as the far ends of a spectrum of human
behaviours in regard to faith-morality-ethics issues and combine that with desire in most people to socially interact (community).
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 5
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Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/19/2006 11:26:39 PM
This is a good topic. I was involved in the Jesus Movement of the early 70s and am now involved in a user friendly type Church. I was thinking to myself the other day about all the Churchianity and it occurred to me that the youth of the late 60s and early 70s started the Jesus movement to get away from garbage like this. I think something has to give soon. The Churches are getting larger and larger and it seems all you have to do to get to heaven anymore is become a Church member. I wonder how Jesus would react to bookstores and coffee shops in the lobbies?
Joined: 5/14/2005
Msg: 6
Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/20/2006 1:31:54 PM
This is an excellent thread. I think that most Christians have this issue on their hearts and minds. I can't say if there will be another Martin Luther type in earth's history. Let's face it: even he had his faults. So is any one human going to bring the church back into proper focus on the Word of God? We can only guess. (Note: God knows though. So I'm not worried!) But if you look through the earth's history, it becomes readily evident that the primary thing to weed out the "fairweather followers" and false doctrine, and restablish a solid foundation is persecution. I believe that the Western world will eventually condemn all things pertaining to Christianity, and will force the church to go underground. That's when we'll see things turn around. There won't be any more room for the garbage that goes on now. Don't get me wrong. I'm not looking forward to those days. They're going to be very difficult. I can already see the beginnings of it creeping into Canada, with freedom of speech being denied to Christian pastors. But I am comforted to know that it will build faith in Christ in those who really choose to follow Him.

And no, people are not accountable for each other's sins. We are responsible to grow in our individual faith though. We are commanded to be of sober spirit and to test everything. It comes down to personal choice to seek truth or just accept whatever you're being taught.
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 7
Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:55:06 AM
You first have to understand that if the true church of Christ was on this earth right now, most of the people would not recognize it. I say that because when Christ walked on this earth, most had no idea of who he was and most of those who came to know him, shunned him and put his message for nothing.

If you read the NT, you will get an idea of the basic structure of the church that Christ set up to replace the one that went by the structure of the OT. The jew's of the law of Moses saw no sense to change what had worked for them for untold years. So Christ was like an anti-prophet, bringing change they (jew higherarchy) had not authorized to the people.

The old roman church did it's best to set itself up according to the things mentioned in the NT that the church was consisted of. But they added and took away from it.

One other thing to remember when searching for the true church of Christ, from a to z of the Bible, anytime God was talking to his church (people) he did it through a prophet. That prophet then told the people what God wanted of them. When the people became wicked, unrepentant, un-hearing of what the prophet had to say through revalation, God would not use a prophet anymore.

ALL christian religions (except a few) will tell you that in our day God cannot talk to us thru a prophet. They will tell you the apostles and prophets died with Christ in his time and we need them no more. We have the Bible and that is all we need.
It's strange but I am sure this is what the jewish priests were telling the jews when they asked if a prophet would return to their midsts. I'm sure they told the masses that all they needed was the Torah and the law of Moses.

We, 2 thousand years later are a duplicate era doing and saying as the jews did and said before and while Christ was on earth. All we need is the Bible. We don't need revalation by a prophet to tell us where we err and where don't err.

For any who seek the truths of God by faith and repentenance, I would recommend the reading of what James states...

James 1: 5,6,7.

...If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraidith not;and it shall be given him.
...But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that waverth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
...For let not that man think that he shall recieve anything of the Lord.
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 8
Church History At A Glance!
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:30:11 PM
I had to smile when I saw how you spelled "Hierarchy" as "higherarchy". It is one of those challenging words to spell...I don't point it out to reprimand you but I did appreciate the irony of the spelling!

I would argue with you now ...that you are speaking of historical facts and not religous dogma. I could really make this post long but I will try and keep it short and sweet.

If there was a Jesus, he was a Jew and he lived the Jewish way and died a Jew. Part of what compounds the problem here is that IF there was a Jesus, there was no real firsthand eyewitness testimony to what he actually said and did. That is a hard cold fact and no one this planet past or present can prove otherwise.

Now that we have dispensed with eye-witness accounts what else do we have to go on? Well, we have later document fragments and documents, some of which survived and others that have been referenced by early figures in the Church history. The gap between 33AD and 180AD in Christianity is awkward and blank.

In a nutshell, you should have one founder giving away to 12 apostles all with pretty close versions of their own shared experiences with the Lord. This diagram would represent a triangle of one working down to many. However, in the real history, we have no records of any apostles, and even at the time of Paul, we have competing groups of Christ worshippers. All of Paul's works are in Greek. Writing as little as twenty years after the resurrection and everything is still in Greek and not Hebrew or Aramaic. Instead of having one focal point at the top of the triangle, we see actually a more wide diverse of Christianity which had to be forcefully narrowed by the time Constantine became emperor. The council of Nicea was ordered by the Emperor for everyone to get on the same page.

Alaska, I should caution you when you make faith-based statements to decipher historical events or alleged historical events. There is nothing wrong with those faith-based statements is just that they prove ineffective when dealing with history. It is why hearsay and belief statements are inadmissable in a court of law. They would be open to wide interpretations.

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