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 stoneside
Joined: 9/3/2004
Msg: 3
Stereotypes and the open mindPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Stereotypes tend to be based in fact. Sometimes they are true, sometimes not. I prefer to find out for myself on a case by case bases.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 10
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 1:54:40 PM
There's an unknown rule that says that we become that which we don't confront.

There are people who can’t do the same, that has to be accepted as it is; if there are..... there are!
Can we believe that other may or may not be that way...??? Of course we can! Is that true..???
We will not be able to say until we interact with THAT PERSON and OBSERVE that specific person.




This is a quote of something that I wrote about a similar subject, but it reflects my point of view on this matter.
I believe that appearances are appearances, and as such meaningless whether they are good or bad; attitudes/behavior a complete different thing.



http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4434089.aspx
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 17
Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 4:12:29 PM
Because we've all live and had experiences, we tend to stereotype and put people in categories. We do it subconsciously.
However, some can consciously overcome that and just really see people for who they are, just as another human being.
I have had my own struggles with this, and I'm just human, so haven't been able to completely be free of this, but I know that when I have, it's always been an amazing experience. Sometimes I do and the person falls into the stereotyical mindset and that just makes it harder the next time.
Anyone who says they never stereotype is just being dishonest with themselves. Sorry, that's just what I believe. We can try to overcome it and I do the best I can.
It's like a switch that I wish I could turn off.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 22
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 7:34:38 PM
^^^^^^^^^I just love people who pretend to know others and the way they think/believe better than themselves.......
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 27
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 8:37:27 PM

It's a fact that humans stereotype so to say that you don't is to be in denial. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. So how am I pretending? Prove me wrong instead of simply trying to make me look bad.



Stereotyping protects you from situations. For instance, when I think of a murderer I see them as dangerous.



Here you say what you DO, You THINK of someone and place the person on that category/group.

THAT’S stereotype.

When BASED ON YOU DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOUR (because you call me “liar” and tell me “what” OR “HOW” I’ve to think about myself


“For people to say that they don't is to be in denial, which is way worse than admitting that you do stereotype. Our human minds are hardwired to stereotype. It's how we think.”




invalidating MY self determinism by doing so)I decide not to interact with you, I’m NOT placing you on ANY group, but using MY RIGHT TO DECIDE TO INTERACT OR NOT INTERACT WITH A PERSON WHO DISRESPECTED ME SINCE I DON’T ACCEPT DISRESPECT FROM ANYBODY.

This decision comes from my OWN determinism, BASED ON YOUR DISRESPPECTFUL ATTITUDE TOWARDS ME, and I don’t know if you are a disrespectful person or not, all I know is that YOU disrespected ME, and NOT because you fall on the “group of the disrespectful ones”


‘Our human minds are hardwired to stereotype. It's how we think.”


Who told you it is what we think…??? Jung and Adler..??? Wilhelm Wundt..???
Bismarck..??? Pavlov..???........Please!
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 30
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 9:00:30 PM


Your stereotype is the behavior of what cause the disrespect. So if you see stereotyping as disrespectful then you stereotype stereotypers as disrespectful.


Wrong, I see YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS ME AS DISRESPECTFUL.



I really don't see the need to prove this point because it's widely accepted.


Does it make it right??? Remember when it was "widely accepted” that earth was flat??


I'm not going to "google" anything, I don't believe in written words, but SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 33
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/16/2006 11:33:38 PM

Granted that stereotypes are hardwired into the human psyche...
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:rp6gdzx1WLEJ:www-tech.mit.edu/V123/N47/smc47.47c.html+are+people+hardwired+to+stereotype&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2


I hope you're happy now. *yawn*



..........words...............*yawn*
 Say Hi to David
Joined: 8/2/2004
Msg: 34
Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/17/2006 12:36:02 AM
To round this out...

EVERYONE judges. It is required and automatic. We make our conscious and subconscious decisions based on our perception which is entirely dictated by our experiences and knowledge.

The perjorative usage "being judgmental" is a different beast altogether. It applies when someone lays a moralistic view on another's choice/predicament and is much closer to the concept of stereotyping.

The difference is that a stereotypical approach applies assumed generalizations to each and ever specific individual that belongs to the group associated with those assumptions.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 36
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/17/2006 1:49:27 PM

We all use oversimplified notions, at first



Who are "ALL"..???
So, I suppose that if I say I don't do that, I'm wrong, because you know me better than myself....... as well as the other 6 billion people on the planet, right..??

Well that's great, the "knowledge" about this field is being completely discover and absolutely proven to work, that may explain why we have such a wonderful society, with such wonderful interaction and understanding among people around the world, with no criminals corruption etc etc..etc.

What makes you think that what you read on a book or hear from an "authority on the field" is a fact..??

Did you personally contrast that information with people in society everywhere around the world..???

You study all those things...........so what..??? Do you have scientific evidence that those are FACTS..???

Or maybe you think that because you studied that you are in possession of the truth..???

Do you know WHO in psychology advanced the theory (theory, NO FACT) that man is a thinking animal, and the "scientific evidence" that leaded him to that conclusion..???
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 38
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/17/2006 2:20:45 PM
What do you want me to produce fact of..???

In my original statement on this thread I expressed MY personal opinion, after that somebody came and called me "liar" and told me "how" I have to think about myself, and I respond to that unsolicited attack.

So, what do I have to prove..???

BTW the ‘earth’ subject; was presented as an example that I decided to use because I believe that most of us we are familiar with it, no because I believe in it.

Sorry but when someone says : "everybody"........"all".........that's NOT an opinion.

Actually you are right...........I just saw that he specified that it was he's opinion, it seems that I miss that yesterday, so I apologize to you and drew.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 42
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/18/2006 4:33:50 PM
I'm not interested in pursuing this thing, I just want you to understand that is not polite telling people that they behave in a way they don't, some people may some people don't.
I've been in half of the world and have never seen two people with the "exact same behavior"
I've seen more of those studies that you can think of, so I know what they are; anyhow, I see your approach much more positive now.

I don't know about you but I like to treat things as clear as possible, for me a fact is a fact, an empirical fact, no matter how you look at it will continue to be empirical it is usable as reference, but is not a real fact.

You say for instance:

"Many things about our personalities are very individualtistic. Other things are common to our species as a whole."

Which is an acceptance that not "everybody" is the same at this, that, etc.

For instance the examples that you just mention don't apply, I never assume anything, sometimes I even have problems about that because I agree that there are a big percentage of people who expect you to assume things, because that's what many are use to, but I learn very long ago that's one of the biggest mistakes I can do.
But again, is NOT everyone.

Yet I'll invite you to go around to other countries and cultures, and you'll be able to have you own evidence regarding those things that you mention as "common to our species as a whole" and you'll be able to SEE that they are not so "common", In fact for my personal Observation up to now I've found only one thing that I believe is common to the entire human race (I believe).

Another point important I believe is to see the fact that people USES their mind to decide things, no ONLY stimulus-response pattern of behavior which is like animals operate, there are people unable to do this (or unwilling) who react towards those stimulus, but there are people (I believe A big%) who uses the information they are observing on present time and evaluate that information in order to reach a viable conclusion at the same time not allowing any of the info contained in pass experiences interfere with the present situation, I don't know if you have noticed but I have seen a good % of people able to operate this way.

On this very thread there are some examples of it, some people say they OBSERVE THAT PERSON, and probably decide based on the person’s behavior.
So, if that's what they say they do; who has the authority to tell them they don't?? The fact is that we haven't observe THAT person, so who's to tell someone no you don't do what you say you do, you do what I say you do, is a little arrogant, (not to mention the invalidation of the person’s way to think)don't you think??

Anyhow, I wish you get something useful out of your knowledge, I encourage you to do your OWN observation, and personally revaluate the knowledge (especially the foundations of it) handed to you to see yourself whether they are usable data or not, if they are positive they will resist any exam, if they aren’t, it’ll give you the possibility to find the right data.

Good luck to you
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 44
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/18/2006 8:13:32 PM
What about if I tell you that I have done certain type of exercises on observation not to allow the brain to do that, or to not accept that info (however you want to see it) but to have the brain as a tool that I use and is under MY control..??
How about if there is X (very large) # of people that I know has done that as well???

What about if you OBSERVE and find that there are many people capable to do this without any training at all..??

You may or may not believe this, but this is exactly what doesn’t allow me to assume things, this and the no acceptance of pass experiences as well........??? But only the data existent at this point in time.....mmm????

I'm not going to tell you what to do with your life/knowledge etc.

But I can tell you this that is something that allowed me to move forward very fast, and that you may find useful.

There was a time where I believed that "it was important to prove to myself and/or others that I was right".

One day I realize that it was way more important "to be right".
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 47
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/19/2006 6:56:41 AM
Hi drew;

I'm not discussing what people like/want or not to assume or not assume. The comments that I've made have the purpose to direct the attention to the fact that there are a lot of things to be considered before to put everyone on the same box, nobody has been proven to be in possession of the truth.

If there was something which has been proven to be absolutely truth and functional regarding this matter, I believe everybody would be doing that and the product would show the improvement on society as a whole.

You'll probably agree that this is not the case, as far as I know the conditions that make men's life difficult etc are far from decline, so it doesn't seem that there is something out there that really works.

I really have to say that I don't enjoy this conversation, for me this is like talking about the conditions of flying pigs, I haven't seen any, so that's no real for me, and there's no point to it.

I acknowledge the fact that you just like me or anyone else is entitled to believe/think or not believe/think whatever you think is appropriate.

And that's the main purpose of bringing this up, if I say "this is what I think" or "this is how I act" I expect you and everyone else to acknowledge that, just like I acknowledge the fact that others believe different ways.

I believe that the intellect-self determinism and Identity is the most private area of a person.
I wonder how would you feel if I go to your home and without your consent, and by force make you change the way you live because "I think" (regardless of what makes me think that) that the way you are doing it is not right.

What I'm talking here is about respect towards a person self-determinism, you can take whatever I believe in and bring it to pieces (in my case) what you can't do is tell me that I don't believe what I believe, or tell me what I have to believe/think.

If you take a look, probably you'll be able to see that this has nothing to do with the fact that you may or may not be right. But if you do that without my consent you are invalidating WHO I am, and nobody has the right to do that to ANYONE, regardless of how much "knowledge" that person has.

I think that, if there's something that can be done is to direct the attention of that person to an specific point so the person can see it and as a result of this experience realize that there's something that he/she wasn't aware of it on a personal bases.

So, the whole thing comes down to this, I respect you, and expect the same from you, I don't believe that there are many things we don't know, it'll probably take us more time to find the correct answers, meantime let's have the party on peace...mmm???
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 52
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/20/2006 7:44:13 AM
Hi moon;


No my first Language is not English, and I'm learning by the way, and sometimes I say the opposite of what I mean and I would appreciate any help on it (I'm aware of the difference between help and invalidation).

Like on the last paragraph of my last post I said: "I don't believe" and I wanted to say "I believe".

Anyhow, this subject has become funny, now it looks like all we do is stereotype, so I suppose there's no room for KNOWLEDGE left and many other conditions of human nature.

But I saw that you are questioning certain conditions, like me for instance not being human etc, well, I guess that's good, if you are able to see that there maybe something ELSE besides of what you were told, that will probably help you to reconsider those "axioms".


As for me "lacking" a certain part of human instinct, I've to say that I understand your interpretation of it.

But perhaps I'm not "lacking" perhaps I decided to get rid of it because it's probably "system of protection and 'cognition'" developed by evolution which I no longer need, maybe evolution itself + acquire knowledge allow me now to see that I can use my evaluation skills to determine whether a situation contains a real potential danger or not (as well as not making so many mistakes by relying on it as an assessment tool), which may be way more accurate.

Yesterday I made a comment about that to someone and give this person an example of it that you can see here:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4463648.aspx.

To find the more accurate answer to a question I commence by addressing the subject like something that I never heard about, and start from there questioning every piece of "evidence" there may be.

Like I said on that example, the computation A=A=A will bring you back to the starting point
And probably that's the reason why at this point (on this thread) we may have the impression that we don't do anything but "stereotype", but I think that IF that was true the result of it would be that "we are all the same", somehow human beings seem to be different, react different, understand different, ACT different, process their thoughts in different ways, ad infinitum, which is what give us the IDENTITY that make us unique, so -from my view point- I think that "something" is NOT quite right on that equation.

As a side note, if you feel leery (about that what you mention) and decide to take a PERSONAL look on this subject, I would suggest you to be prepare to get very leery, because you MAY found a lot of people with what you called "lack of fundamental human instinct".

Regarding the meaning of words, I would suggest to keep in mind that there are many different words, and all of them have different meanings to represent different things, yes there are some a little confusing and synonyms etc, but when we are trying to make an assessment we should look for the ones (or use an specific definition) that CLEARLY separate them from the rest to avoid us to go into confusion

And last, I saw some people is looking –or at least trying- to look into the subject in a subjective way, I encourage anyone who wants to do that, to do so.
I think that there are NOT authorities on this field, there’s a lot to find out, an ultimately, I believe that nobody can know a person better than a person itself other than by assumptions and pretensions.

Here is an example of a friend of mine who when to get "therapy" and the end result as to the "help" she got:

"and she said "oh, that's common, you'll grow out of it" and no i didn't just grow out of it. that was WRONG of her to just dismiss me like that..because i actually did have those issues that needed help with."

Anyone who looks into the end results of the actions performed by the "professionals" may be able to find (depending on the objectivity of the observer and level of perception) this type of results time and time again as well as others far worse than that.

So yes, I encourage anyone who wants to know to do your own personal observation on the subject, after all your life is yours, and YOU are the one who is going to live it.
 Gmaverick
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 55
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Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 6/20/2006 10:32:26 AM
Tks I'm working on it.

No I don't assume anything, whatever I say on that line is directed to encourege you and/or anyone else to observe the subject personally, including the knowledge coming from books, other people observations/conclusions etc, in other words everything consider as "facts" for which we have no evidence of it on a personal bases.

Well; I don't know how you come to the conclusion that I said that "it is you who need to look within..." I'm encouraging anyone who would like to do that to do so.

That thing about invalidation seems that came out very wrong.
You said " and I don't mean to offend, but I'm curious...is english your first language?”

(Let’s see if I can do it right this time) so I wanted to say that I know the difference between genuine curiosity and invalidation) trying to let you know that you don’t have to worry about your concern of been disrespectful, but then I decided to say that I could use any help as well, and I guess I forgot to finish the first part.
But no I haven’t run into something like that yet, and if I had, as you can see now that I clear it (I hope) it has nothing to do with it.
So now is me who says, sorry if that offended you.
 awesomefiftyman
Joined: 12/1/2014
Msg: 56
Stereotypes and the open mind
Posted: 12/18/2014 4:17:03 PM

gambit
I did a search found lots on sterotyping but nothing on the actual topic of stereotypes. Another thread had some one say "We all stereotype." My question is do you believe this? Are we (as a species) able to remove preconceptions from our minds when seeking another for freindship/dating/marriage/sex?

I personally think that we cannot, it is a defense mechanism either to something alien to us (ie another culture) or in response to our inadequacies (ie she's too pretty). Can any guy say he hasn't looked across a bar at a woman (at some point in their lives) and said "What a $lut," similarily when a woman sees a big muscular guy, or a nice car does she actually think "Well he is over compensating," or "Totally into himself."

I do not think it is too important that we DON'T stereotype but rather to recognize our thought/actions and try to over come them. So "she's too pretty" can be reasoned out to "by whose standards...mine...F*** that" not always going to be that cut and dry. Similarily the muscular guy might be very giving and soulful (although i hope not becuase then I'm screwed!!).


Nice post gambit.



The positive benefits to children of forming gender stereotypes outweigh the negative effects of making some mistakes and thinking too narrowly about gender-related behaviors.
http://www.feminish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Brannon_ch07.pdf
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