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 AUTHOR
 Ratero-park-man
Joined: 2/2/2006
Msg: 2
Christianity and Intimacy and DatingPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Good Question

I think intimicy is ok just as long as it doesn't go to far like in and past foreplay. But making out like kissing and holding and cuddling and all that, I don't know if it is wrong. I will be honest i have done that with my ex but I didn't think it was wrong. I enjoy intimicy and romance as long as it doesn't get to that stage you know.
 statueman
Joined: 2/11/2006
Msg: 7
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 7/12/2006 4:28:47 PM

Loving sex done safely and wisely is fine, married or not. If Christianity says otherwise, OK, but that's arbitrary and wasteful, IMO.


Fornication, like opinions that do not line up with the word of God are both a means to an end. The 4th estate derives pleasure from sharing with usin's who believe that there is a practical side to stimulus and response. To bad we've never figured that one out when learning from Moses, Isaiah and Jesus Christ. We just took it all in blind faith since we don't have con-science-ses like those practical free-willen atheists.


Pregnancy, disease and destructive emotional attachments are examples of negative consequences.


thanks for that... i thought those were just for people who are going to hell because the bible told me so.

we churchians are kinda dumb like that though... we believe everything our pastors tell us and never try to figure out little things like why we shouldn't have sex before marriage. So thank you

4th estate

for unlightening us on such an issue as Christianity and Intimacy and Dating.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 9
view profile
History
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 7/12/2006 10:24:18 PM
Be careful about how you share your thoughts on here Sally. There are some here who lie in wait for a Christian to confess human emotions and then jump on it to "prove" Christianity is not true.
 flormimi
Joined: 4/7/2006
Msg: 12
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 7/15/2006 7:56:24 PM
The world today is a tough place to remain pure. Let me try to impart a small amount of wisdom from lessons learned. When you allow yourself to succumb to the physical is will cloud your perspective The guidelines for relationships that our in the Bible are for our protection. Sex when within the confines of marriage is a beautiful consumation of the love between a man and a woman. Sex can also be one of Satan's tools to lead us down a wrong path. When you have sex before marriage even if you marry the only person you've had sex with, it breeds an atmosphere of mistrust from which the erosion of the relationship can and often does occur. If you can be Holy and pure God will honor that and bring you someone designed just for you. Would you not rather have that? Physical attraction while I agree is imrportant can be fleeting when you find out the other person is not equally yoked. If in fact your friend is committed to God himself/herself he/she will honor your desire to remain pure. If you find yourself being tempted beyond you ability to resist, The bible has provision for that Either don't put yourself in one on one situations where temptaion is great or marry.
I promise you having been there done that staying pure allows you the opportunity to really see who you are with It gives you amazing perspective and allows you the the opportunity to do what is right in God's eyes. Instead of viewing abstinence as as some sort of penance view it as a gift you give yourself
 SteveHD
Joined: 3/9/2005
Msg: 14
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 1/3/2007 12:37:13 PM

Her question to me was, "How can I show my boyfriend I care for him if we cannot have any intimacy? How will our relationship ever grow?


B.S.

Both people take it a day at a time. Sex is something personal between two people and not something that should be discussed so freely, much less judged by others.


And if two people who love one another are free to express that love in a physical way without being thrown into hell, or worse yet, judged by their piers.


The peers shouldn't be judging anyone if they call themselves Christians last I checked, God is a forgiving God.
 SteveHD
Joined: 3/9/2005
Msg: 16
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 1/4/2007 11:34:09 AM

If two people love each other and want sex GET MARRIED!


Yeah...that's right...so the next time you're at strip joint that you frequent and see Sassy, let her know that your desire to have sex with her has now resulted in a desire to marry her. Same thing for the guys that go to the bar to pick up women...it's not some fling...that's your future wife who you will share the rest of your life with.

Sorry...but I don't think sex is a good enough reason to get married.


Im also sick and tired hearing two people saying "I LOVE YOU" but Im not ready to marry yet.


The alternative is for people to make a life long and life altering decision when they are not ready, because they want to get their rocks off. Something tells me that may not be the best advice.


if neither of ya'll are ready to get married then don't have sex because both of ya'll are in dought in ya'll love for each other


Hardly seems like that would work either...I know how much I love someone, and I trust them when they say the love me. That doesn't mean that I'm in a position in my life or they are in a position in their life to make a life long and life altering commitment.


How hard is this to comprehend nowdays?


It's easy to understand. I trade one night of pleasure for a life-time of commitment to one person. That'd better be one helluva night. This may work if EVERYONE does it, because then EVERYONE is ignorant of what sex could be like with other people, or love with other people for that matter. That's not the case and I don't think it ever will be.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 17
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 1/4/2007 10:35:30 PM
Many, perhaps most, single Christians are extremely troubled over issues of sex, their ability to live up to the standard of never having sex until marriage, and the guilt they carry for having had any sexual experiences in the past. Many people leave the church because they can’t live up to the virginity expectations of the church.

Most try to repress their longings for intimacy and that causes them to think about sex even more because they can’t have it. It’s a bit like trying not to think about flying monkeys when someone tells you not to thinking about flying monkeys.

Examples of even extremely well-known preachers becoming too obsessed with sexual thoughts to refrain from it are everywhere. You hear of them regularly – the famous evangelist who admits to playing with himself in front of prostitutes between sermons, the pastor who is well-known for his sermons against being gay but reluctantly admits that he has been seeing a male prostitute for the past couple years, the priests who molest children, and the list goes on.

When people here say that society has not changed all that much in the past couple thousands years or that God never changes I must admit that I cringe a little. Some things have change a lot since then and God has even changed his mind or been repentant on a number of occasions as noted in the Bible (I recently listed several scriptures to this effect in another thread but I won’t take the space to do that here).

As far as marriage is concerned, remember that society is very different now. Whereas the norm was once that marriage was primarily a kind of tribal business arraignment between parents coupling their bride and groom children – and the bride and groom were likely to be, what, maybe 14 or 15 years old – this is not the case today.

When today’s seniors were unmarried in their mid-twenties they were considered “old maids”. Now people may not marry until 30 or 40 years old or more. That’s two to three times the former age of marriage – a long time for most humans to perfectly abstain from experiencing sex. For many, the years of guilt are too much and they leave the church with a feeling of being unaccepted.

Many Christians believe that the act of sex consecrates marriage so the first person you have sex with is the person to whom you are married in the eyes of God. It is also said the Bible teaches that once married, the only thing that can free you to marry anyone else is if you were separated by death not by divorce. Therefore any kind of sex with a second person before the first dies is fornication, even if you have a second marriage ceremony.

Of course these are issues that some people would have scripture-flinging flame-outs over, but what I getting at here is the question, is there room for people who have had sex with more than one person in the church? One could also ask, is toll of guilt and strained mental stability worth it? How specifically could that turn into being blessed? And can you have a full sex life if you are married as virgins at the age of 43 and don’t yet know anything about the give and take and openness and sharing that are required for a good and truly intimate sex life? In fact, even more basically, what is considered sex and what is not?

For Christians, sex can be a heavy stone to carry.
 statueman
Joined: 2/11/2006
Msg: 19
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/11/2007 2:41:05 PM
why'd you dig this old thread up?

Jesus also says to cut your hand off or gounge your eyes out if they offend... so if the heart offend do you you think he meant for us to cut our heart out.

we are all sinners

that was his point

especially to the outwardly self righteous folks who kept to the law

Jesus words were meant to put everyone on the same page... so that we could all love one another and not get caught thinking we're all that and a bag of chips.

Jesus was not trying to show the perfection of those who thought they were perfect but the perfection that comes from a purified heart that only a truely honest person can attain...

iow's If you find you've gotten to the point that you don't even sin in your thought life then you've achieved an intimacy with God that few will achieve in this life.
 TongFuMstr
Joined: 10/27/2007
Msg: 21
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/11/2007 4:27:50 PM

Well lets see matt 5:28 says that whoever looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultry in his heart...

to look on a woman with lust~~~what this is saying, IMO, is not just a quick momentary thought that you put out of your mind, but a lingering thought that you allow to remain, and i think, IMHO, you are basically ravaging/doing her in your mind! it's the action that is taking place in your mind, not just the temptation that you shrugged off. That's adultery of the heart/mind! and the Bible says that God sees into the hearts of man, and judges accordingly, because, IMHO, as you think, so you are. Whatever you think, (and i'm talking about dwelling on, not just a passing thought), you're apt to do! Not always, but likely. That's a big struggle for most Christians, especially when we weren't brought up that way. We have to retrain our thinking, so to speak, be on guard and catch ourselves a lot, and stop putting the garbage in that we used to. It ain't easy, but because we believe thus, it is a necessity! I work in the RV business, (recreational vehicles), and the people i work around make it very hard for me, i slip and fall, but i get right back up and try again, i'm getting stronger! it's a process every day for the rest of our lives, but the end result that we believe in makes it soooooooo worth it!
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/11/2007 5:14:05 PM
This is something I never really understood about christianity.

If you go by the bible...technically, then it requires marriage to one person.. in the case of divorce you can not remarry until your former spouse is no longer living.....UNLESS you are lucky to have married someone with a single brother...HE can marry the widow of his brother (eeeewwwwwwwww) If you marry after a divorce and your spouse is still alive you are an adulterer. That is very clear. Adultery is much more serious than fornication. (yet I know scads of christians who've remarried at least once, it's a mystery)

I believe "marriage" was originally created to protect the woman from having (sex) and children and no one to look after them... basically being used. The "suggestion" against fornication (it isn't a law) was for the same reason... to protect people from the very real consequences, physical and emotional, of being sexual with one another and to remind people that sex has deep responsibilities attached to it. This follows with the admonishment against lust... lust is not desire, it is purely selfish, and can lead to violation... as in "coveting" it can lead to a disrespect of someone elses property or person. It is also related to envy. There is NO WAY a human being could go through their whole life and never experience desire for the opposite sex (unless they were gay) It's as strong a drive as hunger, or the need for sleep. But "lusting" is more akin to wanting to USE someone for your own gratification. It's like the difference between enjoying your food with thanks, and gluttony. We have to eat to live, but we do not have to be gluttons. We can appreciate the opposite sex, even be attracted, but that doesn't mean we have to sleep with them or allow that to damage our commitments to our loved ones. It's like Cheesecake.. I can walk by a shop with a scrumptious cheesecake in the window, and think, "oh my...that looks wonderful - it would be nice to have some of that", but I can also say to myself.."I just ate though and I don't really need it.... I can have something at home later, maybe I'll make a special sundae just the way I like it!".

It's difficult to speak of this subject to someone who hasn't experienced sex. Sex is very powerful... especially when you are young. Sex is NOT intimacy though... it can be a part of it, but it isn't by itself. It is completely possible to be intimate without sex... intimacy is sharing a part of your inner self, your "soul" with another. It is the trust built on learning that you can be who you are with someone and that they respect you deeply and care for you. When people are ready for sex having this intimacy will only ENHANCE that. It can't replace it though... and it can't be the foundation for intimacy on an emotional and spiritual level. Sex never replaces real intimacy... in fact in the wrong circumstances it can ruin it.

There are a million other ways to show someone you care about them... than being physical. If someone is truly convinced that being sexual before marriage is not for them I would suggest NOT playing with fire... I think deep kissing and other forms of sexual, or sensual play could make it more difficult to stand by your convictions. And also give out mixed signals... and maybe even mess up communication between two people.

Ultimatley I believe...scriptures or not, that going against one's inner moral code is where the "conviction of sin" is. If you know who you are and what you believe (other than what you are told) in then it is much easier to stand by your convictions. If you are not sure what is deep in your heart as to your personal boundaries and morals are then nothing anyone says, or is written anywhere is going to matter.... this is the root of rebellion. You have to look within and let your heart speak...that still, small voice inside will let you know.

Good luck

*disclaimer The views represented above are the opinion of the person only and not that of this television station, or it's subsidiaries... it has been presented for entertainment only.
 raptor_red
Joined: 11/7/2007
Msg: 23
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/12/2007 6:24:19 PM
I'm proud to say I'm a virgin waiting till marriage. I'm a former Christian, but I still have Christian-like values. I applaud you for having good morals and giving this some thought.

With some of my past boyfriends (including a born-again virgin), we established boundaries in the very beginning. That way, we knew what was off limits. I think it's good being upfront about it, so later on it doesn't feel so awkward. If a man can't respect your decision, he's not worth being with.

One doesn't need to have sex to show the other person how they care about them. IMO, this can be done by being yourself, smiling, telling that person how much you care for them, holding hands, baking brownies/cookies, preparing a romantic dinner over candlelight. It's just the little things that show you care about someone.
 statueman
Joined: 2/11/2006
Msg: 25
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/13/2007 7:58:40 PM
Lets face it... christianity came to many cultures where having sex was a common as shaking hands. In Acts the Apostle told the Gentile believers to "abstain from sexual immorality". New testament letters of Paul attest that Moses was taugth throught the known world so the Moses version of what was moral and immoral was prolly pretty well known.

I doubt very seriously that they didn't have the same difficulties then with this subject that we do now.

I'd love to say it's all just a personal issue... but it obviously falls under the catagory of self control. Most of us fail the test... sex before marriage becomes a great stumbling block to people who think that Moses laws are some sort of majic wand that can make or break us. The only thing in my experience that breaks us is our own slant on what we percieve God likes or doesn't like about us. (I'm speaking only of christians here.) I think we start to get into a trick bag of psycho-symtoms when we try to incorrectly measure our past and present mis-deed with the words of God.

In comes Paul... "whatsoever is not of faith is sin..." so in a sane christian who can be honest with themselves they live without doing things that would offend their own conscience. It is not the knowledge of sin that saves us but the willingness to repent that gives us an out... better to marry than to burn... says Paul.

So their you have it... can you handle heavy petting or do you give yourself totally to abstaining from such since you know that it will only lead to the marriage bed before the marriage.

Sex is a commitment to have children and raise them up to become folks that love God.
(Again you asked so I'm speaking my christian mind here...) Sex should not be taken lightly. But lastly some things should be kept between yourself and God as Paul says. Why offend the conscience of a weaker brother? However... if you really want to please God and live according to spirit of the letter then you will treat sex with great respect endeavoring to put it in a marriage bed and a union sanctioned by the Holy Spirit.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 26
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/19/2007 11:49:33 AM
This is something I never really understood about christianity.

If you go by the bible...technically, then it requires marriage to one person.. in the case of divorce you can not remarry until your former spouse is no longer living.....UNLESS you are lucky to have married someone with a single brother...HE can marry the widow of his brother (eeeewwwwwwwww) If you marry after a divorce and your spouse is still alive you are an adulterer. That is very clear. Adultery is much more serious than fornication. (yet I know scads of christians who've remarried at least once, it's a mystery)
- Msg: 33

Wow ravenstar66, a rational and thoughtful post on a subject that often makes people act in mysterious ways! I hope people will read the entire post.

*WARNING The views represented above are the opinion of these persons only and not that of this television station, or it's subsidiaries... it has been presented for the entertainment of rational thinkers and may cause irritation to the rationally unstable .


 romanticoptimist
Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 27
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/19/2007 5:06:58 PM

This is something I never really understood about christianity.
That's because what follows is assumption laid upon assumption and a surprisingly legalistic stance from you.
 eye4light
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 28
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 12/19/2007 5:37:53 PM
Actually, what she said was a pretty mainstream Christian reading of the Bible.

It seems that if you are going to accuse her of making "assumption laid upon assumption and a surprisingly legalistic stance", you should explain your charges.
 7thour
Joined: 12/2/2011
Msg: 29
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/18/2012 9:23:15 PM
Nope...no sexual touching at all. Not foreplay or anything. Not even thinking about it in your mind. It is a sin in Gods eyes.

Having said that, be glad you are human.

We all sin and there is only one sin that a Christian can commit to prevent himself from being with God after death and that is to deny Christ. I am not telling you to do anything. I am saying that you and your girlfriend have to decide for yourself what you are willing to do and not do.

Personally for me I have to be in a committed relationship before I am intimate and I am a Christian. I have been married and in that marriage our intimate life was not a match. I won't let that happen again so I have made the choice to have sex before marriage for that reason. I want to know if I am a match with my partner and if he is a match for me. Sex is a big..major part of marriage and I don't want to be stuck with a man who has issues with sex. That won't be known until you are in the act of it. His/her responses to certain things will let you know.

I have a very good male friend of mine who married a woman before they had sex (his second marriage) who claimed to be open sexually. After they were married he found out she didn't like and refused any kind of foreplay. They were married for 17 years.....that was terrrible for him.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 30
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/21/2012 10:28:35 AM

"How can I show my boyfriend I care for him if we cannot have any intimacy? How will our relationship ever grow?
What a sad, sad question.

Why would you even allow yourself to be close to someone in a romantic sense if you cannot be intimate? Why do you think God would be against that? Just think about it.. beyond what the bible says.. why.. ?

It also sets up a certain haste to marry.. and we can see with the divorce stats what a genius idea that is.

I personally think that some people are 'married in spirit' without the 'benefit' of legalities.. whereas some who are legally married are not even close to such a deep and soulful connection.

I cannot imagine living my life based on what it says in a book (especially one riddled with translation errors and contradictions) when it doesn't actually make sense to me. Sorry, I find this whole topic beyond sad.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 31
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/24/2012 8:37:32 AM
^^ Well said Dun!

There are many, many people who believe this though.. as if loving someone in its entirety is going to send them to hell. It boggles my mind! But I am no longer fenced in by such things.. all I feel now is pity, not frustration.

The fact is, some people want to be restrained by such black and white fences, and I say.. let 'em have it :)
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 32
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/24/2012 5:24:59 PM

The book is very misunderstood at times.

Not just at time, all times.



Its easy to do, when one takes something written 2,000 years ago, and applies it to today with out understanding the context in which it was written.

Then take the fact that it has been re-written and also translated multiple times with essentially makes it useless as it can be in no way close to what it originally was intended to be.

Because it would be reinterpreting gods words.
 lagoda
Joined: 11/20/2009
Msg: 33
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/25/2012 4:30:43 PM

This is something I never really understood about christianity.

If you go by the bible...technically, then it requires marriage to one person.. in the case of divorce you can not remarry until your former spouse is no longer living.....UNLESS you are lucky to have married someone with a single brother...HE can marry the widow of his brother (eeeewwwwwwwww) If you marry after a divorce and your spouse is still alive you are an adulterer. That is very clear. Adultery is much more serious than fornication. (yet I know scads of christians who've remarried at least once, it's a mystery)


It is indeed. For me, that has to be one of the single most compelling reasons to think that there must have been some significant scriptures that just got filed into the apocrypha. It hardly makes sense. It would have been helpful for the church to have given more forethought to that, considering the emphasis that is placed on marriage and procreation. For the more committed Christians, there's no chance for intimate life whatsoever after divorce, they pay by committing adultery (remarriage) or just become fornicators. You haven't lived until you've had a spinster or worse yet, a married woman, preach to you about the impact of this particular sin and the duty to remain chaste. It's not surprising that young people leave the fold. But I'm sure many pastors have adapted. People should be able to enjoy their lives, without paying for their mistakes for the rest of their lives. It's bad enough marrying the wrong person.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 34
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 4/25/2012 5:48:23 PM
Aristotle:
Then take the fact that it has been re-written and also translated multiple times with essentially makes it useless as it can be in no way close to what it originally was intended to be.
And it's much worse than even that.. we don't actually possess the originals. So what are we to compare the plethora of differing copies to so that we can even determine the original meaning/intent?

I now honestly shudder inside when 'true believers' say that such things should be taken on faith. Not to be rude, but this is usually stated from a near complete ignorance of the history of their own religion.

Since when is certainty built on such uncertainty? Sacrosanct and infallible no less!!

Ugh, I digress.. I shouldn't even be speaking on this subject. I looong ago reached my gag reflex. And the irony is that the people who are so totally attached to winning new converts are exactly the ones who push everyone away... I'm sure their God would be proud, lol....
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 35
Christianity and Intimacy and Dating
Posted: 5/23/2012 12:53:34 PM
there were laws during Biblical times called Nidah
they concerned the women's mentrual flow.
a man, even her own husband,was not permitted to touch a woman (or his wife) during certain days prior to ,during, and after the flow.

To this day orthodox Jews still follow this law. so , for them.... while dating,they do not even hold hands if they are very religiously orthodox. this is because it would be rude for your date to ask you if you are on a certain day of your flow. so there is no touching at all.

Christians are also taught in church not to have sexual relations before marriage. there are many good reasons for the teaching. I , as an adult, have different feelings now about such things,...but i do see the wisdom within them.

for the OP: there are many ways to show love to your boyfriend other than sexual love. there are ways to build emotional intimacy between two people other than physical.

and I do not believe that God is sending anyone to hell to for having sex outside of marriage. we will probably all be meeting there if that were the case. with the exception of very religious Christians and Jews and those of other faiths who practice abstinence before marriage. I have met many couples who are happy that that is what they choose.
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