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Show ALL Forums  > Technology/Computers  > Piracy vs Privacy      Home login  
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 DarkKnight_RB
Joined: 7/16/2006
Msg: 2
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Piracy vs PrivacyPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
To answer your question about why it is legal to record a song off of the radio (assuming that you are not distributing them) and not to download a movie or MP3 songs for that matter is a question of quality. Songs played on the radio are normaly not as clear as a CD. However MP3's are CD Quality music. This means that if you copy a song from the radio then you do not get a CD Quality song where as when you get an MP3 you do. The second Question is a question of Distribution. TV stations and Radios pay for the right to distribute media. However most places that you are downloading songs or music from are not paying for the rights to distribute media. So look at it this way the person that you are downloading a movie off of is the one copying the movie from cable. Then you and 100 other ppl are geting that copy off of him. Which is not leagal no matter where you are.

As far as why they sell blank media the majority of it is that it is legal for you to copy a CD for your personal back up assuming that you are buying the CD originaly. Also it is due to the fact that even with all the illegal uses of media there are still 100s of legal uses such as companies backing up there software and servers with them
 apostle
Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 3
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 7/31/2006 9:21:12 PM

Why is it ok to use a radio and tape to record and play music in the privacy of
your own home, but it's not ok to use a computer and a blank dvd to watch or
record a movie? What's the difference?


The difference, as defined by law, is distribution.

It's really that simple.

If you download it from another source, you're distrbuting it.

If you upload it to someone, you're distrbuting it.

This could be confusing for people in regards to applications/games since
they are freely (demos) available on the internet to download. If you are
confused about this issue, than you should grasp the difference between
Retail vs Demo products.

It's perfectly legal to record TV shows, and they even have Digital cable
box recorders for that, because you're aren't going to distribute the material.
Once the material is distributed to someone else, you're comitting the
illegal act.

If you record TV, Music, Movies, anything basically copywritten, and distribute
it, you are commiting piracy/ Whether or not you sell for profit and we all have
the NET Act that Bill CLinton signed into law in 1995 to thank for that...

BTW, it was kind of ironic that Maven put that in their release. ::


 munky29
Joined: 9/28/2005
Msg: 4
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/18/2007 12:51:48 AM
ARRRRR matey , me gettin tired of all ye folks talkin bad about thee pirates... no one will ever stop us all... ARRRRR
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 6
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/18/2007 5:36:49 PM

You wouldn't steal a car


I would if I could friggin download one.
 munky29
Joined: 9/28/2005
Msg: 7
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/18/2007 6:06:48 PM
i just love the douchebags that takin ppl downloading sooo personally when they arent even connected to the industry. its theft... morally wrong WAAAAHHHHH ... cry me a river , build a bridge and get the hell over it. piracy will never stop and you moral high horse pricks cant do a thing about it.
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 9
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/20/2007 11:40:09 AM
Not only that but no one ever complaied when I recorded a movie off cable with a VCR or recorded and LP record or CD on a cassette tape.
 munky29
Joined: 9/28/2005
Msg: 10
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/20/2007 2:56:08 PM
myself , i personally hate going to theaters unless i have to , when i watch a movie , i want silence. i just hate being around that many ppl that cant shut the hell up. i would much rather see a service come out where you pay 20-25 buck the day a movie comes out to download it and watch it at home. id never go to a theater again if that could happen.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 11
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/20/2007 9:06:03 PM

If you download a file, you aren't distributing it, you are merely receiving a copy of it.


I'm not going to pass judgement on the moral or ethical issues surrounding downloaded content but there seems to be some confusion about the legal definition.

Copyright is the "right to copy". As you pointed out when you download you make a copy.

If you didn't pay any money for the content, you're not allowed to make a copy in any way shape or form.

There are all sorts of copyright licenses you can enter into with the copyright holder: non-exclusive right to redistribute, exclusive right to redistribute and so on and so forth. This is why movie trailers explain you have a right for limited home performance. Ie, if you buy or rent a video you can watch it at home but you may not use it for a public performance or distribute it it. You can however make a backup copy.

Say you bought a DVD. You can make a copy and give it to a friend. He can own it as it's an "off site backup" but he is techncally not allowed to watch it. You could I suppose skirt this by saying he's checking to see the copy is intact.

But I wouldn't want to go to court against the MPAA with that rather weak argument. Your chances of winning are slim - but not zero.
 Wrenchspinner
Joined: 10/19/2004
Msg: 12
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/20/2007 9:19:39 PM
I dunno about all the assertions about analog vs. digital regarding quality. I've been a music collector for many years now and as a dedicated audiophile I can't say I can recognize the "warmth" and "fullness" in an album (and yes I have a pretty decent collection of vinyl) compared to the .ogg and .mp3 files I have in the old data box. Then again, just like with my records I'm never tryin to reproduce my music with some POS music program, nor playin 'em on some tinny POS speaker system either, so ......

I've read this debate over and over and can't say I side with the analog bunch at all in this matter. The one thing I can definitely say is that to reproduce quality sound from a turntable and a vinyl album is a much more involved process than queing up a file.

When CDs 1st hit the market I can remember buyin Pink Floyds "Wish You Were Here" and The Cars "Heartbreak City" because they were a cuppla my faves at the time and ..... since I had the vinyl, so I could compare the audio quality between the 2 different formats.

The conlusion I reached very quickly has been a thought that's stuck with me for the past 25 yrs or so which is the CDs were every bit as warm and clear and all without all the hassle of deionizing and thoroughly cleaning the turntable and album just to play the stuff ! I really don't miss all the "process" involved in playin vinyl at all ;>)

As always however, YMMV :>)

Kim
 Wrenchspinner
Joined: 10/19/2004
Msg: 13
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/21/2007 6:33:43 AM
I suppose perhaps there could be a bit of a difference between the "listeners" ear vs. the "musicians? ear there late ol buddy, but for me, it's just not there ;>) I suppose it could just be my affinity for absolute clarity in reproduction that also fuels my bent towards the digital realm too though.

Maybe the wow and flutter, rumble, hiss and all the other elements of musical reproduction with a turntable and a vinyl disc that have to be addressed to sucessfully have aural clarity in the analog realm are appealing challenges to some, but for me it's a tiresome process that seemingly yields no benefit. But .... that's only my own perspective ;>)

My own CD collection is all ripped onto my hard drives at a rate of 450kbps and in .ogg format instead of .mp3. I have made side by side aural tests of these files compared to 128kbps rips and can seemingly detect a difference in the depth of the medias reproduction.

Runnin an Ubuntu OS I use XMMS to mete out the tunes to the Klipsches and can't really comment on how WMP or your own Mac system might compare to what I use. It's been about 4yrs now since I had XP and I've never owned a Mac, so ....

Since aural perceptions are such an individual perspective, I mean who but the listener can say how anything "sounds" to them, I don't think it's a point for argument, only relation of personal perspective. My perspective lies in opposition to many audio "purists" although I feel myself to be one as well .... Hi Ho :>)

All in all, it's all in what you like I guess, right ?

And lemme tellya, if I could download a Lambo ..... all you'd see is taillights
 Wrenchspinner
Joined: 10/19/2004
Msg: 14
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/21/2007 7:47:51 AM
I thought making back up copies of material one has purchased and legally own IS legal. The understanding I have of the illegality aspect of it all starts when one shares a purchased medium that is then copied or ULed to the web allowing others "to" copy it.

I think legally, even offering a copied (copyrighted) CD, software title, DVD, VCD or any other copyrighted materials to anyone constitutes theft (even without any monetary value being placed upon the copy) of the author(s) copyrighted material, but making a gazillion copies for ones own use is perfectly legal so long as the "copier" owns a validly acquired version.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 15
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/21/2007 9:54:48 AM
I agree records sound fuller and you can see it on a scopt. But, the pops and crackles, recyled vinyl, wear? No thanks. I'll stick with faulty digital. It's close enough for me and you utterly can't beat the convenince.

Besides, taken to the logical extreme the "vinyl is better" argument leads to "but a live performance is everb better". We all make compromises, it just depends where we draw the line.

Certainly in a car even the worst recoridng is ok what with wind and engine noise.

My watchmaker has a sterro that I'm pretty sure costs more than my house. His jazz cd's sound pretty much like being there.

I'm not a big believer in "good enough" but the tradeoff of convenience vs. quality dictates that if I can hear anything anywhere because of digital I'll "settle" for that.
 harviej
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 16
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Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/21/2007 2:19:56 PM
So where is the "privacy" to vs the "piracy?

Here I though I would find out about Billy Gates checking my computer to find an illegal copy of powerpoint or something.

I justify my 'piracy' (which I limit to mp3 music files) by the fact that I have bought more music since napster came out than in the previous 20 years.
 harviej
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 17
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Posted: 6/21/2007 5:18:23 PM
Well put rubydave, with
[qute]I'm guilty too, but don't try to 'justify' it. Do you steal milk from the supermarket because, 'hey, I've bought lots of milk from here before'. ?
but that has what I was saying backwards.
I buy 'milk' to use your great analogy, precisely [i[because I have stolen it. After two decades of thirsting for 'milk', and the 'supermarket' selling me some now, we are both ahead. And the cow didn't have to do any extra work either.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 18
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/21/2007 7:30:41 PM

One minor snag with that scenario: DVDs are copy protected with CSS, so in order to make a fair-use backup you'd have to defeat the CSS copy protection scheme. Not technically difficult, but doing so breaks the law in many countries.


I *think* it's only illegal in the US where bypassing a copy protection scheme is a violation od the DMCA ("Digital Millenium Copyright Act").

Canada has always been WAY progressive than the us in allowing people to mess with what thay've bought.

There is pressure (from US copyright holders, naturally) to change this:

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2049/125/
 munky29
Joined: 9/28/2005
Msg: 19
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/28/2007 4:28:04 PM
i think all of the execs and such that want to prosecute pirates need to go out and see a movie in the theaters ( you know they dont have to) , i went and seen the new die hard last night and there were infants crying , toddlers saying "mommy look at the jet OVER AND OVER, not to mention the bevy of douchepumps that cant get off the god damn cellphones....and they will see why people like me download movies and watch them at home.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 20
Piracy vs Privacy
Posted: 6/29/2007 12:56:47 AM
Just suppose they really do want to download it at home and own a copy. How many stidios let you do that? None.

This is the argument that's been made for downloading movies for years. And finally studios are making some inroads towards this - Apples' iTunes store now sells movies. And people are buying them.

I'll agree some people just want free movies - but not all of them. Some/many are willing to pay; the studio as perceived as being at fault here for not keeping up with technology and selling what people are begging for.

Shaw said "The reasonable man goes along with the status quo, the unreasonable man does not. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

Would the studios be selling downloadable movies if it were not for all the illegal downloads? I don't think so; they're a traditionally narrow minded and not very visionary sort. Look at how vehemently they protested VCRs even though the eventual widespread deployment of same utterly revitalized the movie industry.

The #1 barrier to sales is when you make it hard for people to buy your product. The ability to buy any movie ever made by pushing a few buttons and paypaling some small number of dollars is every movie freaks wet dream. Slowly the studios are waking up to this idea and in the long term scheme of things a couple of years worth of stolen downloaded movies really means absolutely squat.
 Wrenchspinner
Joined: 10/19/2004
Msg: 21
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Posted: 6/29/2007 10:28:11 AM
rsx, I think your logic is spot on in this issue and quite refreshing BTW !

In all honesty I'd never considered the thought that IF the movie industry simply made their products available for DL it would have eliminated a lot of the underlying problem which is : consumers want it and when faced with the problem of not being able to legally procure a product, there's always gonna be someone industrious around to enable them to do so anyway.

People in general are actually honest by nature and most would prefer to legally acquire movies, but when left without a viable alternative will turn to less dubious methods to achieve their intended goals.

And yes, yes, the common cry from the "everything in software should be for free" crowd has been heard time and time again but try extending similar principles to the real world like someone claiming someone elses alarmed and locked car should be available for anyone who needs a ride and see how far their sympathies and philosophies extend in that realm when it happens to THEIR car. "But that's a completely different thing" is the cry you'd likely hear arising, yet a logical comparison of the 2 scenarios yet remains, at least in my (twisted:>) mind :>)

But, back to my own personal perspective regarding going to a theater versus poppin in a DVD or keying up a file from a HD. If you put me in a dark room ask me to be still and quiet ..... I fall asleep !

So, I much prefer viewing a movie in the comfort of my own home where I control the lighting, sound quality and volume, can hit the pause and head to the "little room" or into the kitchen where I can whip up a grand snack that won't come anywhere NEAR $10 I'd be charged for a crappy watered down drink and a bag of lousy popcorn in the captive confines of a theater and then head back, push play and enjoy the entertainment at MY leaisure :>)

The cable and satellite industries uncovered the huge cash cow known as "pay per view" some time ago, the movie industry just needs to get with the program, make their products similarly available and quit ****in about people wanting to DL movies. Their only realistic complaint is they aren't gettin paid for 'em, but that is THEIR fault for the lack of availability which THEY have control over, yet choose to instead NOT make commercially available.

I also agree with the "unreasonable man" comment. Folks lying around and simply following the crowds are NEVER the innovators, their niche instead is as consumers of the unreasonable mans labors ;>)

Kim
 Wrenchspinner
Joined: 10/19/2004
Msg: 22
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Posted: 6/29/2007 8:44:21 PM
Ok,maybe I'm missin somethin here, but here goes. What part does a movies format have to do with whether it can be made available for DLing ? I can see how standardized formatting for DVD (disc) distribution could be a concern, but that already seems to have been addressed, so what's format got to do with it ?

Kim
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