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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > Regarding dutch dinner dates...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 -=Kalidor=-
Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 5
Regarding dutch dinner dates...Page 1 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
I think you just have some outdated concepts of etiquette. Obviously back in the 50s and 60s the man was going to pick up the tab -- men had jobs, women had.. baking... it was expected and that's just how it was.

And I hate to use the cliche, but come on.. we're in the 21st century here. The land of equals and opprotunity.

How is a guy supposed to know if you're "worth the investment" before he even goes on the first date? You're putting an awful lot of expectations at someone's feet who you really may not know all that well.

And as I said, its a bit outdated. Now, as a general rule, I would typically pick up the tab anytime I ask a girl out -- but I find this attitude of gross expectation somewhat offensive.

I dunno.. that's just me. Then again, I've never been one to date the "Princess" types, so the girls I go out with are a bit less hung up on such petty things as keeping track of who picks up the tab. We go out to have fun and enjoy each other's company, not to keep an accounting log of who pays for what and when.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 6
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History
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 12:35:06 AM
The chauvinistic portion of the anachronism I am compels me to provide. The hope within me is that a woman will be reasonably eager to reciprocate in some way in reasonable time.

Please shoot me if I ever endeavor in the making of bitter memories. I don't know why I thought 4 months away from here might quell the proclivity some of us have for being preoccupied with negative gender stereotyping. I want an equal, but I also want a woman. I don't think we can begrudge the OP or any woman for wanting a man in addition to an equal as well. Sometimes we just have to say to h*e*l*l with convention. I don't think is necessarily one of them. Bona note bellas.
 TheMarchHare
Joined: 8/9/2006
Msg: 13
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 5:33:50 AM
Ik houd van Nederlandse dinerdata. Oops nevermind. wrong topic.
 His Eminence
Joined: 3/12/2006
Msg: 17
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History
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 10:00:54 AM
OH MY!!!!

Life is SO confussing!
 RANGER FAN
Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 20
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 10:11:51 AM
A female comedian once made a joke about how women are always yelling they want equal rights up until the time the check for dinner lands on the table. I laughed pretty hard at that but then thought well she does have a point. LOL :)
 -=Kalidor=-
Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 29
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 11:03:56 AM
Again, I have no issue with paying and will do it without even thinking about it.. but my issue *is* with your attitude on the subject. Again, you're here with the "Me! Me! Me!" mentality


I have no expectation that a man should invite me out to dinner, or even pay for a coffee. If he does do this, then he is showing me that he has a level of interest. It's not about "money". It's about willingness to "commit". If a man is willing to invest his hard earned money and his valuable time in me, then I think it speaks to his character, that when he makes a commitment, he will not run if the going gets tough. He wants to invest in a relationship and build on it. I'm not saying that a man who suggests dutch doesn't have these attributes, but it makes me wonder about his level of investment...and I mean investing his emotions, his time and his money....something which I am willing to do, as well. I'm actually very generous in this way.



Now you qualify that mess at the end with an almost "Oh, yeah, me too!" but it doesn't seem like it based on your actions. What gives you the right to put yourself up on a pedastal and force the man to do all the work. Am I applying for a loan or buying a car here, or going out with a girl? If that's the way you want to live your life, more power to you I guess. But for me, I couldn't ever see myself wanting to date someone so shallow and/or petty. You're right, it *isn't* just about the money. Its again about this level of demanded expectations. You put an awful lot of worth on the man's ability to invest in *you* but I don't really see any indication in your attitude that you're putting the least little bit back into that. You claim that "You would do the same thing if you asked a guy out" but based on your commentary I bet that doesn't happen very often, does it? If you don't consider a guy 'worthy' who may or may not want to go dutch, I can't imagine you'd 'waste your time' with someone that you had to make the first move on -- after all, what is someone who has to be asked out investing into you?

I think you need to wake up and realize the dating world doesn't revolve around you. Dating is not a ritual, its a medium for two people to get to know each other. Your idealism is going to make it very difficult to find an emotionally independant man -- but from the sound of it, that's not what you want anyway.
 RANGER FAN
Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 45
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 12:45:23 PM
I have never not paid for any initial dates but the best girlfriend I ever had (together for 4 years) insisted on paying every few times out and I really respected that. I paid for all the major deals but still in my mind it was a equal partnership in so many ways and even more so when we lived together. I think everyone is different but if I was picking up the tab for everything every single time we did anything then I would feel she was dating my wallet more than me after a while.
You know after reading this thread I found it ironic that the women that were not willing to ever pay 1 single cent were calling the guy who was willing to pay his fair share cheap. Wouldnt the women that refused to pay 1 single cent really be the cheap one? Just a thought? :)
Anyway I will never value any woman by $$$$ and I actually feel badly for women that are so obsessed with $$$ that they look to that first and foremost over every other very important qualities. Some people in my family are very wealthy. It did not make them happy people. My mom is worth millions and she is far from happy. I hope everyone on here finds what is really important in life. In the long term who paid how much for a first date is really not some major test of charector at all in my humble opinion. :)
 racefan1
Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 48
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 12:58:38 PM
i was asked out by somebody that lived almost 2 hours away. he wasn't able to commute so i did. i also have children that i had to pay for child care for about 6 hours as there was almost 4 hours involved in just travel time. there was also the issue of $3/ gallon for gas. between the 2 i had already invested almost $70 just to go on this date. i was then told how much my half of the dinner bill would be. i'm not sure that i was offended so much as it occured to me that for $100 i could have had a great time with my kids, and friends would be all that this date could result in, because he clearly had nothing to offer me. now you could say that that means i'm only seeking financial support, but it's more than that. i was the one doing the driving, i was the one taking 3 times the amount of time from my family and otherwise busy day, and i was buying my own dinner, where is the give and take here? not the kind of relationship that seems to be of any use to myself or my family. sorry, it's the truth. a relationship happens when two people have something to offer one another, even if it's just companionship. there was nothing there for me that i couldn't have gotten from my own kids.
 RANGER FAN
Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 59
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 1:52:11 PM
LA Star:

I have never not paid for any initial dates = I have always paid for all initial dates, lol. :)

Sorry poor wording on my part. :)
 -=Kalidor=-
Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 62
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 2:00:11 PM
OP: I don't know what part of my posting you didn't feel answered your questions, but I'll do so again here:

Your concepts of dating are outdated. Your perception and assumptions about what is to be 'expected' are offensive. And wanting an equal partnership does not equal 'friends with benefits'. In fact, I never brought sex up once in my explanations.

I notice that when people don't get the answer they want to hear, they cite that they didn't get an answer at all.

I have nothing against you personally, but I know for certain I would never want to be involved with someone such as yourself who preoccupies herself with such insignifigant hangups. You want to make dating and relationships fit a formula of etiquitte and that's just not how the real world works. Dating is about finding out about each other, enjoying each other's company and spending time with each other.

Do you see the repeating theme here? "Each other". It mutual. I can't pretend to know what it is you think you're looking for in a relationships -- but based on the information you presented, it seems trite and more like a chess game to you than the budding of a relationship.

You seem to be more hung up on these literal expectations than simply just taking things as they come. So when you ask what people think of something, don't dismiss their opinions becaues you decide they don't agree with you.

Its not a personal attack, merely my own observations based on your posts. Me saying that I would never want to date you because I find your philosphy on dating offensive isn't even a personal attack -- I imagine you feel the same way about me.

But that's how it goes sometimes. So rather than come here trying to find reassurance for your way of thinking, just keep hitting the dating pavement until you find that perfect guy (For you) who's going to put you up on a pedastal, go out of his way to woo and bribe you into accepting him and live happily ever after.

The end.
 -=Kalidor=-
Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 72
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 2:25:29 PM
I already indicated in my first response that I will pay for a date. But its because I want to, not because I 'have' to. And I fail to see how directly responding to your comments and philosphy makes it about 'me'.

I think you're just dodging the issue (yet again) of people not agreeing with you so their opinions don't matter.
 His Eminence
Joined: 3/12/2006
Msg: 88
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Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/20/2006 5:56:56 PM
Has anyone asked Emily Post about this matter?
 -=Kalidor=-
Joined: 7/14/2006
Msg: 101
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/22/2006 1:18:19 PM
I like how everytime the Op gets an answer that she disagrees with she reminds the posting populace what the topic is 'really about'.
 Sinzuous1™
Joined: 1/20/2006
Msg: 104
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/22/2006 6:50:28 PM
When a Man asks me what kind of food do I like and I telll him and then he says that sounds expensive - makes you think - well - if you didn't wanted to know what kind of food I liked why did you ask, its not expensive its good for you its seafood man....I didnt ask you to buy my meal - I told you what kind of food I liked - so when a man asks you what kind of food you like tell the truth and if he asks you out to dinner you decide if you want to go or not and you decide if you want to pay your way or not
 Jim0647
Joined: 5/18/2006
Msg: 110
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/23/2006 8:20:25 AM
If I ask a lady out to dinner, I feel I should pay, after all, I did the asking, and if I hadn't asked her, she wouldn't be there, would she? I don't see it as mooching or anything else like that, it's just good old fashioned manners. If I meet someone I'm so interested in that I want to spend time to have dinner with, I'm more than willing to pick up the check. Even if she asks me out, I will offer to pay. And what would I expect from my investment? The pleasure of her company over dinner, and if it was pleasant time, hopefully, the opportunity to pay for more dinners, and pleasant times spent together.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 118
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Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 8/25/2006 10:55:10 AM
I thought this thread was about being with an attractive, intelligent, Dutch woman on a dinner date.....

Sigh..... so much for my dreams.

I think a man should pay at the beginning, and that's just me being old fashioned. If you are a couple, then eventually the woman should start to contribute equally. It's still nice to treat them to a surprise now and again.

I'm assuming here that both parties are making equal salaries.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 144
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 9/7/2006 7:58:43 PM
I didn't read this entire thread, too much hate for my taste. But, if a man asks me out it's understood he will pay for that date. After that, if I suggest a date, I'll pay. If he suggests, he should be prepared to pay. That is not old-school. Old school would dictate he pays for it all, no matter who suggests what. I can't say what others do ~ but the last couple of times I offered to pay for something, the man I was with refused to allow that. (And in case it matters, they were younger/much younger than me and no one pursued sex after or during.) Guess that sort of ruins the argument that older men have doomed the situation for all you younger men. It's personal preference, if you don't want to pay ~ you may get turned down. Sorry ~ but it's the way it is. Maybe not for everyone ~ but that is how it's worked in my world since I was in my teens (which is a long time ago.) Good luck to you all.
 Trees202
Joined: 10/31/2006
Msg: 154
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:11:44 PM
To answer the questions: I'd like to say that I wouldn't get offended if he suggested going dutch...but in all honesty I probably would feel a tinge of...offense? Maybe offense isn't even the right word. Honestly though, it wouldn't bug me that much.

In the rare event that I DO go to dinner with a guy; I am always prepared to pay for my half. When we're done eating I reach for the check and say something stupid like "let's seeee how much do I owe" so that he knows I'm ready and willing to pay for my stuff...without t hinking I'm paying for his too! :-p

Honestly though, 9 times out of 10, the guy will grab the check away from you and say "not a chance; I'm paying" or something like that. When that happens, I insist 2xs to let me pay for my own and then relent but firmly state that I'm picking up the tip.

I've only had a guy want me to split the meal once. It was date #2. He had paid for date #1; date #2 we went to a fairrrrly expensive sushi restaurant and the bill was like $60+! He didn't offer to pay the whole thing there...and while I was kind of surprised that he didn't I was also glad; I woudl have felt terrible had he paid for it.


*Also, when i KNOW the guy is going to insist on paying...I tend to order something fairly cheap.
 cupidstrikes
Joined: 2/17/2007
Msg: 155
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 5/13/2007 9:40:14 PM
I want a demonstration that a man is willing to 'invest' in the idea of a long-term relationship.


So to you, your idea of an "INVESTMENT", is ALWAYS one of a financial matter?


There is much more one can "invest" in another, aside from financial investment first of all.

Example: I was with an older woman once. She has a child who I helped raise for the time we were together. For quite sometime (while I was with her) I wasn't working. One of the reason's for this was because she lived about 50 mins away (without traffic) from me and I was constantly back and forth from her place. (when I was there she never wanted me to leave and so I'd be there for weeks at a time)
I was there babysitting her son constantly as she had no sitter, aside from her mother who only watched the child once a week.
Did I not have an "investment" in the relationship because I wasn't always working?
Sure I did. I played husband and father. I would take them to run their errands, (shopping, banking, etc.), drive her son to school in the mornings, install and fix things around the house, while she was at work I'd babysit her son, bathe him, cook for him, feed him, teach him, play with him, put him to bed, etc.
I pretty much did everything a husband would do in a marriage, except for the fact that I wasn't working, because I was always back and forth from there and the commute to/from either city would have been too much on a daily basis (we're looking at 3-4 hours of driving each day).
Yes, I could have gotten a job in her city (or close to it) but when we fought I'd be back here, home in my city.
I know this is slightly off topic but I'm just trying to show you that an "investment" in a relationship doesn't always have to be a financial one.
Just as how some women claim that being housewife is a full time job and if they had to get payed for it financially it would be very costly.


I think your logic is flawed. Instead of him looking for a FWB, I suspect he's rather tired of supplying free dinners to leeches who are only there for that.


I too believe that logic is flawed. If we're talking about several dates into it that's one thing. HOWEVER, if we're talking about the initial 1-2 dates that's something completely different. Dating is about a "weeding out" process. Sometimes people will have several dates throughout the week with several different people. Some of these dates may not go further than 1 or 2 meetings because the parties involved eventually find out they're not right for one another.
Now with that being said; could you imagine how costly it could be if a guy was expected to pay for EVERY first/second date and he dated several people throughout a week/months time?
Especially considering the fact that many of those dates may only be a one time thing?
If we're talking about the 3/4/5 dates then that's somewhat different. By then it's been somewhat established that both parties are very interested in each other and that things could end up becoming serious.
But the 1-2 date? As you said that's more of an "orientation" between both parties for them to get aquainted and see how things go.


he's looking for a lifelong mate as well, and wants a demonstration that YOU are willing to "invest" in the idea of a long term relationship.


No offence but the way you make that sound there....
Well you mean you're looking for a guy that you know will completely financially support you if you get married so you can stay home and not do anything; including NOT raise the kids, NOT cook for the poor s.o.b or NOT clean the house?
A Peggy Bundy if you will?


The way we were raised is based on practices of our parents, which worked in their time.


These days are very much different from those our parents came from. Even the "quality" of people out there has degraded. Sad as it is, it's true.
Back in those days it was the "norm" for the man to go out and work and take care of his family financially, while the woman stayed home and raised the kids, cleaned, the man could come home from work and expect to have a hot home-cooked meal waiting for him as he arrived, etc.
Many women don't even want that these days. They just want a "sugar daddy" that will support them COMPLETELY. The poor sob will be the bread winner AND have to come home and find his own meals, clean for himself (and her), etc.
While the woman shops all day and goes to spas and spends the day with the rest of her female friends that do nothing either.
Are women like fair?

Equality is the name of the game these days. Evidently equality doesn't apply when it's handy or economical. .


So you just contradicted yourself there.
If equality is the name of the game then shouldn't both parties in a relationship contribute to it, as opposed to the male being looked upon to contribute EVERYTHING?

You're making equality not apply when it's handy for you by what you're saying here!

 His Eminence
Joined: 3/12/2006
Msg: 156
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Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 6/9/2007 9:39:32 PM
Being a refined gentleman, if it is a highly fashionable and very expensive restaurant, I always allow the lady the honor of paying.

In a MacDonalds or Wendy's I INSIST on picking up the tab. Of course, I always encourage her to "'biggy size".... it is only fair!
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 165
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 3/30/2008 1:40:53 PM
Oh girlfriend ^^^^^^^ I concur and wish I'd thought of that.
 Dumpling-Girl
Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 166
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Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 3/30/2008 1:51:47 PM
This is just a message to the guys who think that there are so many women out there dating to get free meals, out there ready to take advantage of you as men. I don't really think there are, because it's really not worth sitting through dinner with a toad just to get free food. If a woman is on a date with you, chances are that she is hopeful that things will work out, and that you both have a good time. Take the stick out of your ass, and just offer to pay to be nice and gentlemanly (and stop worrying about being taken advantage of). Yes, it does help impress a date. Yes, going dutch can look cheap. And yes, sometimes you might pay and in the process, do something nice for a person whom you may not wind up dating in the long term. Oh well. It's not the end of the world now, is it? Goodness gracious, doing something nice for someone without getting anything in return! What a thought!
 violetstreak
Joined: 7/22/2007
Msg: 174
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 3/31/2008 5:41:33 AM
I have no idea why any woman would expect the man to pay as a sign that he is truly interested in persuing her seriously.
I mean... isnt the fact that he asked her out "sign" or "persuance" enough?

But then again, thats just me... I am very independant and I dont need anyone to take care of me. I guess I like the idea of couples that take care of eachother...as in equals... not one having to specifically take care of the other based on his gender.

If a man asks me out, I still offer to split, in fact sometimes I will offer to pay in full if he has had to travel a greater distance than I to meet for said date.
There are times that he pays for everything, times that we split, times that I pay for everything it just depends on what we each agree on when the bill arrives. Never do I expect someone to pay simply because they asked me.
I have agreed to go with as much enthusiasm as they have asked me... so regardless of who voiced the final question "would you like to go to dinner" I feel we are equally invested in the interest of the date.

oh and for the record... I had a solid male role model too. My father is and was always around, worked extremely hard so that my mother could be home with us, our house was paid for and cared for, we had cars, vacations, 3 meals a day, he bought her wonderful gifts whenever there was extra $, he gave me an education... we didnt want for anything and I can truly attribute that to him. But its interesting, I feel THAT is what makes me want the opposite. Something more equally earned/shared rather than feeling taken care of.
Just my feeling
 pelmary
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 183
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 3/31/2008 4:59:14 PM
I might pay for my own dinner but I would never pay for his. If he cannot afford his own dinner then he should stay home. If that were the case, I doubt that I would be going out with him anyway.

That being said, if I got into a more serious relationship, and he had paid for expensive dinners, I would reciprocate by inviting him over and cooking something very special for him. I do not expect a relationship to be one sided. That wouldn't be much of a relationship.
 celts123
Joined: 5/15/2008
Msg: 195
Regarding dutch dinner dates...
Posted: 5/20/2008 1:15:06 PM
The problem with "whoever asks should pay" is 80%-90% of the time the man asks the woman out. Therefore that produces almost the same results as saying that the man should always pay. A lot of men don't mind paying the entire bill. However I don't think that a woman should have a sense of entitlement and expect a man to pay to the entire bill. A couple of times a woman has asked me out and I never expected her to pay the entire bill.

Different people have different viewpoints. Some women would get offended if the man tried to pay the entire bill. Other women would get offended if a man wanted to go Dutch. It's a catch 22. Besides first dates shouldn't be that expensive to begin with. The actual date should be more important than how the bill was paid.
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