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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Jack Straw v The Veil      Home login  
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 corleo
Joined: 8/22/2006
Msg: 2
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Jack Straw v The Veil Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
every woman he has asked to remove their veil in his surgery has, cant see the problem myself.. he just wants to see their facial expressions when hes talking to them.. think i would ask for that myself... they can veil up afterwards so whats the problem??
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 10
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Jack Straw v The Veil
Posted: 10/6/2006 8:37:38 AM
In the current climate of civil unrest, anything directed towards the Muslim community is deemed a sleight or an underhanded attack on their religion and lifestyle choices. It's Ok for them to tell us how we should behave around them to avoid offending their religious beliefs... I wonder how they would feel were we Christians to enforce our religious beliefs on them???
It's a pity this kind of thread keeps appearing regarding another perceived unfairness perpetrated upon the Muslim community, but the frequency of them speaks volumes don't you think???

And before anyone accuses me of being racist I am not... I am a realist....
 Trikeit
Joined: 8/10/2006
Msg: 15
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Jack Straw v The Veil
Posted: 10/6/2006 12:05:58 PM
Have to say i also agree with hilltoplegs if i went into a shop with a balaclava on or through a street at night i would get arrested and they what to live in our country if we visted there country we would have to abide by there rules if they don't like it tough they can go back to there homeland
 bootielicious
Joined: 9/10/2006
Msg: 25
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/6/2006 7:27:33 PM
Hmmm... I think the fact that Jack Straw cares enough to ask these ladies to unveil is a reflection on how good he is at his job and how seriously he takes each case he comes across.

As users of the net we all know how easy it is to miscommunicate as it is faceless and words are often open to misinterpretation. Taking into consideration that for the majority of these ladies English will be their second language, (if not all) there is already room for confusion. We rely on mannerisms and jesticulations to guide us on the meanings of words and the passion behind them, as well as tone of voice.

Surely by wanting to exercise all his senses during discussion and debate, he is merely trying to fully understand the person he is dealing with, in order to give them the best possible solution.

Maybe this is why each person he has asked has willingly agreed to do it as yet? They understand that for them to get the best result, every possible advantage given to them should be utilised and the power of communicatoin is immense, be it positive or negative.
 bootielicious
Joined: 9/10/2006
Msg: 28
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/7/2006 9:02:21 AM
Does that mean they should be doing moonies while travelling by car or public transport?? Or is it just my friends who do that?
 bootielicious
Joined: 9/10/2006
Msg: 34
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Jack Straw v The Veil
Posted: 10/7/2006 10:24:44 AM
My step dad's sister lived in Iran for some years. Yes they lived in luxury out there, but... and it is a big but, the locals treated her like she was a piece of s*** and she even experienced being stoned on one occassion as they don't like white people and more importantly don't respect white women.

I think we're bloody civilised and we do try and think about other cultures without condeming them, sham other cultures don't all adopt this attitude!
 aquaplane
Joined: 9/22/2006
Msg: 66
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/12/2006 2:16:44 PM
I think jack straw is in the right. He is not racist. The worst racists I know are Muslims, not all Muslims are racists, just the worst ones I know.
Such outward shows of difference do not promote integration, is integration a target?
I doubt the freedom of choice of the wearers of veils from my personal involvment with Muslim males and their treatment of women that I know.
 Loose_end
Joined: 9/12/2006
Msg: 70
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/13/2006 2:24:34 PM
As has been already pointed out many times already, the indigenous population of this "multiracial" country do not find it comfortable to talk to people while parts of their face are so clearly covered...

If i wanted to settle into a new life in a new country, i would make great effort to dress and speak in a manner that doesnt make the natives feel uncomfortable

When in Rome.......

Burka wearing wannabe ninja's would do well to try the same.
 poirot
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 77
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/17/2006 6:29:10 AM
Respect works two ways. We cannot have a situation where it is one set of beliefs that is considered to be sacrosanct but not another. Modern democratic societies are a result of consensus and you can't be both in and out. Take your pick.
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 81
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/19/2006 2:42:13 PM

God does not have a son.
Jesus did not die on the cross.



Uhoh think I just spotted an anti christian comment there..... aren't you meant to be espousing the virtues of all faiths living in harmony, allowing each individual to believe what they wish??? Therefor do not belittle my faith if you wish me to offer the same generosity to Islam ...
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 84
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/19/2006 11:44:44 PM
Ok I stand corrected, but the wording was a tad ambiguous... It's the 'that's it' comment at the end, I took it to mean that that was the way things are and tough titty, not that is the only difference....
If that Is the only difference between our religions then why is there such hatred? Why DO followers of Islam call us infidels? Why do they believe that women should remain covered? Not specifically veiled, because as we've heard that is the choice of the individual (or her husband)..but covered...Why are they not allowed in certain areas of the mosque to pray?
Is Sharia law a law specified by the Islamic religion or only by Islamic people ?
There just seems to be a huge gulf between us..I have many Muslim friends, but none who are veiled. A lot wear the headscarf and two or three wear the pinned scarf that covers the head and throat and shoulders...But none the whole veil and none want to or feel that they are any less pious because of it...
I just feel that the ladies who choose to wear the most extreme forms of the veil are excluding themselves from British society..A recent report in the mail followed a woman for a day whilst she wore the most extreme veil and catalogued the feelings of separation and solitude she underwent.. The difficulties of maneuvering and carrying out the simplest of tasks and the sheer physical discomfort... Why would anyone want someone to feel that way? especially someone they love?
I am just at a loss.........
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 89
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 10/31/2006 1:18:01 PM
^^^^^ Ehhh who's fault is that then??? The veil adorned Islamic fundamentalists, or the white skinned mob of Maureen Messent Islamaphobes????



 bootielicious
Joined: 9/10/2006
Msg: 92
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 11/2/2006 1:52:59 PM
I think after reading this thread it just confirms my thoughts that religion in any language is basically didactic crap! It's a method of controlling through the unknown. has anyone watched The Village?

If everyone lived by high moral standards and showed everyone equal respect until proven that they don't deserve it, then we would more than likely be living a far more harmonious life. Live life by your own set of rules that leave you with a clear conscience and make you a good role model, not for what you believe in (religion) but for who you are.

Some people depend on religion as they don't have anywhere to turn. I believe that the church for some is a good place. Some people need a sense of belonging and it can provide that. I know people that are very religioius and they are caring people, but I also know people that are religious and would watch their child die before allowing them to have a blood transfusion, although some people would wonder if they new something we didn't know since blood contamination has become such an issue.

The veil issue is not religious... so why is this where the conversation is going?
 pantsonfire
Joined: 7/19/2006
Msg: 98
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Jack Straw v The Veils
Posted: 12/3/2006 12:57:31 AM
Please stop writing in all those apostrophe's, I have to keep reading in accenuated scentences and they don't work, it's giving me a headache ....
Jack was right, veils aren't the thing to wear in places of important discussion and or high security .. Anywhere else I don't care.. One minor pint ..I was at a bus stop the other day and a veiled lady needed change for her fare.. She asked all the Asian people at the stop ..None of whom had change but never asked myself or the 2 black ladies who were waiting .. and I had change... So who is ostracizing the veiled ladies, us or them ???
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