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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?      Home login  
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 fordgirl6s
Joined: 8/17/2006
Msg: 1
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
im not a felon but my boy friend is and he brought it up to me the other day when
he goes to fill out an ap for a job they do back ground checks on but aliens you can't do back ground cheks on them thay might be running from the police in there country and no one would know . so i ask why felons can't get a jobs but they can .and by the way this is not racist in any way so don't say it is.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 2
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 6:19:43 AM
In the topic of your thread you mentioned "illegal" aliens, but in the message, you discuss "aliens". There is a big difference between the two.

"Illegal Aliens" are not legally allowed to work in the United States ... they are "illegally" here and are usually subject to being deported when discovered.

However, "legal" aliens are allowed to work and are subject to background checks just the same as an American citizen.

Background checks are done on "legal" aliens ... my ex husband is from Germany and I had a roommate from Wales ... both are "green card" aliens. Both have had extensive background checks done on them for their perspective jobs, not to mention that they had to provide background checks related to their applications to be accepted as an alien from their perspective countries. These are on record with the US Government with the Immigration Department. The ex roommate from Wales is currently working for the local police department in the city where he lives ... believe me, they do background checks.

The term felony is used for very serious crimes, whereas misdemeanors are considered to be less serious offenses. A felon is a person responsible for committing a felony, which is generally a social stigma.

In the United States, a felony is one of the highest types of offenses, and may be punishable with death or imprisonment. It is a crime punishable by one or more years of imprisonment, and regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor.

Crimes commonly considered to be felonies include, but are not limited to: aggravated assault and/or battery, arson, burglary, drug possession, embezzlement, treason, espionage, racketeering, murder, and rape. A third offense for drinking and driving is also a felony in most states. Originally, felonies were crimes for which the punishment was either death or forfeiture of property.

In modern times felons can receive punishments which range in severity; from probation, to imprisonment, to execution. In the United States felons often receive additional punishments such as the loss of voting rights, exclusion from certain lines of work, prohibition from obtaining certain licenses, exclusion from purchase/possession of firearms or ammunition, and ineligibility to run for or be elected to public office.

In addition, some states consider a felony conviction to be grounds for an uncontested divorce. These, among other losses of privileges not included explicitly in sentencing, are known as collateral consequences of criminal charges. While controversial, these disabilities are explicitly sanctioned by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, a Reconstruction-era amendment that deals with permissible state regulation of voting rights.

Theoretically, federal law allows persons convicted of felonies in a federal United States district court to apply to have their record expunged after a certain period of time with a clean record. However, the U.S. Congress has refused to fund the federal agency mandated with handling the applications of convicted felons to have their record expunged. This means that, in practice, federal felons cannot have their records expunged.

For state law convictions, expunction is determined by the law of the state. Some states do not allow this, regardless of the offense, resulting in a subclass of citizens. These citizens can have extreme difficulty finding a job or even a place to live, regardless of qualifications or references, often resulting in their return to a life of crime.





I hope this helped ...

 athletic2222
Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 3
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 6:54:03 AM
Your boyfriend won't take the jobs that the Illegal aliens are talking. Many are working for minimum wage or less. These aliens are not getting executive positions at IBM. They are more likely selling oranges on the highway.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 4
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 6:58:45 AM
Yes ...

"Illegal" aliens would possibly be selling oranges on the highway.

"Legal" aliens are getting the executive positions.

There is a difference between "illegal" and "legal" ...
 !somewhere
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 5
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 6:59:47 AM
If I were hiring a person, and it needed to be somebody who could be trusted, a convicted felon likely wouldn't be considered for the job.
Perhaps you want to trust a person with a felonies on their criminal record. People trying to manage their businesses or be responsible for their investor's money can't trust him.

As for people hiring illegal aliens, I'd suspect that it's simply a cost-saving move. These people are being hired because they'll work for less than a citizen would. Most of them are also not being hired for positions where they must be trusted.

Your boyfriend's criminal past may limit him to having to apply for some "less than desireable" jobs. However for many of these jobs, in some areas, illegal aliens can be found to work cheaper.
Also an illegal alien does not expect health and dental and other benefits. They also have no means of reporting an employer for unfair labor practices. this makes them even more desireabe to some employers.

The convicted felon isn't desireable at all. He can't be put into a position of trust.
Yet his being a citizen, means that the illegal aliens will get the menial "lettuce picking" jobs, before he does,.
 !somewhere
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 6
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 8:05:54 AM
too late to edit my last post

I just want to add:
convicted felons can bitch and whine all they want, when they can't find a job.
But in reality, it's nobody else's fault. They commmitted their own crimes. Being turned own for prospectective employment is another consequence of their crimes. They should realise they caused this themselves, accept it as a consequence of what they've done, and not bitch like it's someone else's fault.
 sassyfox
Joined: 4/29/2006
Msg: 7
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 8:11:09 AM
OMG....felons have paid the price. Geeeeez...not giving them jobs is like asking the criminals to commit more crimes.
 epsilonbj
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 8
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 10:00:01 AM
^^^I agree completely with you, just want to add that as a society, it won't be the first time we shoot ourselves in the foot. we basically force them to commit another serious crime ( like robbing a bank ) to scrap a living and then we wonder why in the heck they did that....they did that because we are too dumb to realise that we are pushing them to be repeat offenders......30 years or prison life later, the parole board will declare them fit to be re-introduced into society......

well, it also depends on what felony he committed and what job he is applying for. cutting trees in the forest.......and if in the process he meets a grizzly and wrestle him to the ground...
 sammy salt
Joined: 5/15/2006
Msg: 9
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 1:13:32 PM
Just a guess, but people in jail have been there for a reason. There for its a trust thing.
Illegal alien's will work harder for less pay with out questioning it alot of the times. The company saves money.
Its just a quess.
 Byrd
Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 10
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 3:05:21 PM
Thank God for illegal aliens they take our jobs, and they take our women...If it wasn't for them more of us guys would be missing football.
 Huggablehottie
Joined: 8/3/2006
Msg: 11
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 3:32:13 PM
I think the legal system here in the US stinks.
Criminal records leave a paper trail, and haunt you the rest
of your life, even if you didn't commit the crimes.
Even if you did commit them, and have learned your lesson,
done the time, there should be second chances given,
especially if they were nonviolent crimes.
And to the person who says that it is the felon's own fault, blah blah...
how should they then be able to support themselves or their families?
Do you want more people on welfare, do you want more homeless persons,
more people in mental hospitals,
do you want people to go out and sell drugs or commit other crimes just
to get by???
People are human, they make mistakes.
There may be crimes you commited, and never got caught for!
Or how about the people who have a lot of wealth and are able to
cover up their criminal histories, the poor don't have that luxury.
 fordgirl6s
Joined: 8/17/2006
Msg: 12
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 3:45:25 PM
not all the time
 fordgirl6s
Joined: 8/17/2006
Msg: 13
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 4:22:50 PM
I agree with everyone except !somewhere,cotter,athletic2222,and byrd. A word from my boyfriend on your thoughts......i am a convited felone and i have even put in aps for stock boys at stores and been turnd down . Jobs . i never went to the pen i served my time did probation ten years ago thats ten year people but still i can't find a job i do get work from time to time but it not enogh to pay bills . and as far as the thing on the alian thing they tack are jobs and live off the goverment the min they get here . they get every thing food money and every dang thing i need but were is this country going . when i can't get a desent job and they can im not askinggg for corpite jobs but factory work would do for me and i can get them becase they get them.and the fact that i have a back ground . and as far as what cooter said not all of them get cheacked . but aren't u tierd of them not gettting taxes taken out of there cheaks and you bust your but to mack a dollar and get them tacken out and they get the whole lump sum .just another thought to think about . and don't say they get taxes taken out cause iv'e seen one of ther cheakes when they weren't looking mine was 500
and there cheak was 1000 and no taxes and i worked the same hours they did .just athought.
 !somewhere
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 14
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 4:50:08 PM
I agree with everyone except !somewhere,cotter,athletic2222,and byrd.
?????
you disagree with me? On which point?

I stated that I would not likely hire a convicted felon.
Are you telling me that I would hire one?
I know myself better than you do.


I also stated that:
-illegal aliens are hired because they often work cheaper
-your boyfriend's past may limit the types of jobs he can apply for
-an illegal alien does not expect health and dental and other benefits
-an illegal alien has no means of reporting an employer for unfair labor practices.
which of these points don't you agree with with.??????


In my second post I stated that: not being able to find a job, is an ongoing consequence of a felony conviction.
How are you disagreeing with this? It basically stateds what you said in the opening post about his not finding a job.

You asked why a felon can't get hired, and illegal aliens do. I simply listed some obvious reasons why.
I wasn't trying to argue with you, or defend illegal aliens. I was just simply responding to the opening post.



I will state that I do sympathise with your situation, and hope for the best for both of you.
 Byrd
Joined: 7/19/2004
Msg: 15
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 5:04:41 PM
You friend served time in a county jail on a felony conviction and did his probation over 10 years ago and still cannot get a job.?.The only way I could see that happening is from a crime of volience maybe someone is in fear of him..I did juvi time on a manslaugther when I was 13 which was self defense but people were in fear that's why I got time at all I was ward of the court..The last time I did something moderatly bad was a burgulary I was 22 and I just moved to Santa Barbara they charged me with a felony but it didn't stick of course the crime made the paper so I couldn't get a decent job for years..So I shoveled sh t at Earl Warren Showgrounds..I washed dishes, unloaded trucks, worked 12 hours a day in a rescue mission for room and board, I also worked as a security guard for about 20 years I never had a felony on my record..I don't know about the state of Illinois I haven't been there for almost 30 years but when taxes are taken out of a check it's usually just a third taken two thirds are usually left..You may not agree with me but it's my 2 cents.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 16
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 5:21:55 PM
I agree with everyone except !somewhere,cotter,athletic2222,and byrd.

the alian thing they tack are jobs and live off the goverment the min they get here . they get every thing food money and every dang thing i need
I would be glad to send you a personal email with some clarifications in it, but you have too many filters on your profile in order for me to do that, so I will do it here in the thread ... for all to see and read.

Someone is still not able to distinguish between "legal" and "illegal" alien here.

Legal aliens are not allowed to get government money in the form of food stamps, welfare, or the like. I know, I was present and accounted for when my husband (at the time) signed a paper saying that if he ever did, he would be deported.

Legal refugees do however qualify for this and you may not realize the difference in their status, but there is a difference. However, both are "legally" here, both are subject to background checks before entering the United States and both always ... repeat, always will have to pay taxes on their income unless they have been assigned a special status that I will discuss further down in this post. THEY ARE LEGAL.

Illegal aliens are here because they snuck into the country illegally and they do not get government assistance ... because they have to prove their status in our country in order to do so. No welfare department anywhere will give them assistance without them being able to prove they are here legally.

It's illegal to hire them and anyone who does can get in a lot of trouble but they work so cheaply that some will run that risk.


and as far as what cooter said not all of them get cheacked
Yes all "legal" aliens do have to get a criminal background check before they enter this country and their records are on file in Washington. I know ... I helped my husband (at the time) get his before he left Germany and "legally" immigrated to the United States.


but aren't u tierd of them not gettting taxes taken out of there cheaks and you bust your but to mack a dollar and get them tacken out and they get the whole lump sum
Some legal refugees are here for a short time with a special status that allows them to earn tax-free money for a very short time in order to help them establish themselves. However, they are here legally and have that special status. It is not a permanent situation ... and once that status is gone, they are on their own and must also pay taxes.

In my original post, I did not make a statement about how I felt ... one way or the other ... about the way a felon is treated. I merely pointed out the difference between a legal and illegal alien and gave information related to the "background check" of a legal alien.

I purposely also gave information related to the definition of a felon so that anyone posting in this thread would know what you are speaking of and what the status of a felon is in many states.

Please note that I wrote the last paragraph in bold ... in order to emphasize the fate of a felon. I did that on purpose ... to make the readers of this thread aware of how many felons are treated even after they have supposedly paid their dues and rehabilitated.

I still will not state my feelings on this, but will continue to be here to help when it comes to clarification on legal and illegal aliens.

 athletic2222
Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 17
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 5:25:45 PM
To fordgirls boyfriend. I'm sincerely sorry you can't get work. \

I don't believe your tax story about $500 = $1000 with no tax.. it just doesnt add up so you are lieing and just promoting your distrust.


Take this as helpful advise: You must prove that you are trust worthy where as everyone else gets hired first and then has to prove they are not trust worthy. It may be worth adding a letter to your application explaining that you made a mistake 10 years ago, but you are an honest hard working person who won't let them down.


It's hard for a man to feel like a man if he does not work. I hope your situation changes.
 Mister_Right
Joined: 6/12/2006
Msg: 18
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 5:38:55 PM
Illegal (and legal) Mexican workers generally have a great work ethic.

They work hard unpleasent jobs for long hours in areas like janitorial, agriculture and construction labour.

On the other hand, the average criminal is a lazy bum whose greed combined with an aversion to work led him to a life of rotating between loafing in prison and ripping people off on the street.

Guess which one I would rather hire or work with?
 packleader
Joined: 8/18/2006
Msg: 19
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 7:03:27 PM
Fordgirl.....Some states have programs that work with business` to actively encourage those entities to hire felons...some are set up to give tax breaks to business and other programs actually subsidize wages for a stated period of time.These programs are designed to help felons get back into society.....probably you need to check with the state enployment office for any info on this or some states may have some sort of rehabilitation office for these matters.Good luck.
 SOBEIT19
Joined: 10/15/2006
Msg: 20
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 7:31:41 PM
Your boyfriend will have to go for work as an independent contractor, unless he can afford to have his record expunged he has no choice. He will have to take work where he is not around client money, or store products. No one will hire him... and they wonder why felons end up back in prison?
The only jobs I see illegals taking are in construction here in Florida.. They work for builders who will hire two of them for the price of one, experienced licensed, union american.

They do the framing, the plumbing, the electrical, the roofing, painting etc.. They are not selling oranges on the roadsides here
 athletic2222
Joined: 10/13/2006
Msg: 21
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 7:50:34 PM
^^^^ The Illegals you mentioned have good jobs but for half the wages.. I'm sure the felon in question here would not accept that. He is venting at illegals for the wrong reason. Yet I'm sure it's true that if they weren't here there would be more job opportunities.

Some good advice in this thread OP. Take it and improve your life.
 cazar
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 22
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 8:22:44 PM
from working in the prison system at home and being in law enforcement...there is a great
quandray in the american system...from jobs..

ex felons...employers dont trust them...
illegal aliens..employers trust them somewhat
aliens... employers trust them somewhat

... employers trust someone who has never been in trouble, high credit score etc etc
unfortunatly that doesnt happen every day..

Lower salaries for illegal aliens? ...sure.. is it right...no
Lower salaries for ex inmates ? sure..is it right..no

will it ever change...doubtfully...
 chinua
Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 23
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 9:35:09 PM
how do you do a backround check on an illegal alien?? how do you know he didn't committ a crime back in his own country?? as for legal aliens( we call them immigrants here) how do you check on them?? are the employers willing to contact germany or wherever tthey came from??.............just a few thoughts.
 chthonic
Joined: 7/24/2006
Msg: 24
why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 10:09:48 PM
and as far as the thing on the alian thing they tack are jobs and live off the goverment the min they get here . they get every thing food money and every dang thing i need but were is this country going . when i can't get a desent job and they can im not askinggg for corpite jobs but factory work

fordgirl6s

If this is your boyfriend's writting, I can tell you one reason why he isn't getting as much work as he hopes and it's got nothing to do with a criminal record. Even to do factory work or stocking shelves you need to be able to read and spell. You should start proof reading applications for him before he hands them in. Also since he isn't working much send him off to a local library to improve his speech, spelling, grammer and all that boring crap, it matter's to an employer. Trust me, I don't have a criminal record but I dropped out of school young and have found everything I do to better educate myself helps quite a bit. As you stated at the begining of the thread this isn't racist, well if it isn't stop blaming the aliens and maybe try a little empathy towards them and their situation. They didn't take your job in anyway shape or form, the employer didn't hire you and that's the problem, not them. Hope this helps, best of luck to both of you
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 25
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why can't felons get jobs but illegal alien's can ?
Posted: 11/18/2006 10:57:20 PM
how do you do a backround check on an illegal alien?? how do you know he didn't committ a crime back in his own country??
You don't ... because where "background" checks are necessary, they will not be hiring any "illegal" aliens. A true background check includes determining the citizenship or legal right of a person to be in this country. And if they are not a citizen of this country, they also have to show proof they are legally allowed to work here ... ie have a work visa, and they would have fingerprints on file with the government as well.

as for legal aliens( we call them immigrants here) how do you check on them??
Fingerprint cards, the Department of Immigration ... where their background and fingerprints are recorded in the process of granting them "alien" status, checking with previous employers if they have been here working for a while.

are the employers willing to contact germany or wherever tthey came from??
Some do ... it depends on the job they're applying for. In the case of my friend from Wales who works for the Phoenix police department ... his background check went back to his birth ... ie he had to account for all of his time from birth until present. But that wasn't difficult as he already had all that information recorded up until he became a legal alien. So all he had to do was add what he had been doing from that time forward ... much as a person does when they apply for any job and the application asks for your employment background.

I personally helped my husband (at the time) make a time line (so to speak) that accounted for his time spent in the same manner when he applied for his green ("alien") card. And they do call and check on previous employers in your country of citizenship before you are considered eligible for "legal alien" status.

Believe me, the older you are when you apply for your immigration, the more difficult that can be ... as some employers may no longer be in business and there is no one to attest to your claim that you worked there or that the company ever existed.

If anyone has more questions ... feel free to email me and I'll do my best to help with clarification. Or it can also continue to be discussed here ... for all to read.
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