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 AUTHOR
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 1
The War on Drugs Is a SCAMPage 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
It's 2005, and the U.S., not to mention other countries, has spent hundreds of billions of dollars in chasing, arresting, trying and incarcerating the users of illegal drugs. The result--not too impressive. Drug use has declined somewhat among certain segments of the population, but not very much and not everywhere. And the stuff is pathetically easy to get.

Entire segments of the Federal Government are involved. The DEA, FBI, BATF for starters. And all 50 states have special organizations to deal with it. We're talking tens of thousands of cops, judges, prosecutors, lab techs--the list goes on. The resources devoted to fighting this "war" are astronomical. And yet, things are little better than before.

If this were a real war we would have long since surrendered and made peace. It's a war we're not winning and will never win. It's time to admit we lost. Most politicians, if you get them to talk after a few drinks, will admit that it's a scam, a political pork barrel that provides tons of jobs for law enforcement and corrections officers. Let's legalize and tax these substances, and use the money for things like education, defense, and Social Security. Our society will be the better for it.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 2
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 8:53:30 AM
Absolutely, and by legalizing we can reduce the deaths of people who are the victims of criminals scrambling to steal enough money for their habits. If the products are not only more available but cheaper, a sort of natural equilibrium will be reached as the worst addicts OD and die, while society readjusts. Some might claim it would make it easier for children to get them. But children already get them. I could have when I was 13--and that was 20 years ago.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 3
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 9:14:11 AM
Yes, watchman, but that does not take into account the billions that would be saved from not having to enforce the drug laws anymore. I think we would save billions of dollars in the equation, and have less crime as well. As for lives lost--they are already dying, and to be honest if they want to kill themselves with drugs it is their problem not mine. Making the drugs illegal does not save people from themselves. And there are many things we could do with the money.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 4
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 9:17:17 AM
And at least half the monetary cost you mention stems from the illegal nature of these substances. If they were legalized that cost would evaporate.
 darjeeling
Joined: 3/11/2005
Msg: 5
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History
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 10:49:25 AM

Entire segments of the Federal Government are involved. The DEA, FBI, BATF for starters. And all 50 states have special organizations to deal with it. We're talking tens of thousands of cops, judges, prosecutors, lab techs--the list goes on. The resources devoted to fighting this "war" are astronomical. And yet, things are little better than before.


Absolutely true. Plus the costs of incarceration must be incredibly high.

This all started in the late 80's when crack cocaine unleashed a pandemic of violence as rival gangs fought to control "markets" for the lucrative trade. Which spawned advanced weaponry, SWAT teams, and helicopters for local law enforcement agencies across the country, to stem the tide.

Where prohibition was the causative factor in making the enterprises so lucrative to begin with.


Most politicians, if you get them to talk after a few drinks, will admit that it's a scam, a political pork barrel that provides tons of jobs for law enforcement and corrections officers.


As well as judges that privately believe current drug policy is a losing proposition, and needlessly bloats the judicial system.


Let's legalize and tax these substances, and use the money for things like education, defense, and Social Security. Our society will be the better for it.


I think the case could easily be made that decreases in drug use stem more from drug education than the effects of interdiction to limit the supply. Some form of legalization / decrimnalization takes the profit motive out of the equation, wherein the money saved could also be earmarked for viable drug rehab and education.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 6
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 12:56:04 PM
Amen to that Treq. The "drug war" has done nothing but corrode our civil liberties. We now live in a country where it's possible for them to seize you property on the mere suspicion that you have drugs--and once it's seized it's almost impossible to get back whether you are guilty or not.

Drug testing--if, as the pro-choice folks claim, there is a right to privacy, then mandatory drug testing surely violates that right.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 7
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 1:44:30 PM
Oh, and what about things like sobriety checkpoints? It's an excuse for cops to search your vehicle without bothering to have just cause. If you ask me, they are not interested in catching drunk drivers except as a bonus. They want to find drugs; otherwise why would they have drug-sniffing dogs at these checkpoints?
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 8
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 2:33:53 PM
As far as that goes, we've already discussed the monetary aspect so I won't belabor those points. But we are also talking about the erosion of civil liberties and the conversion of the U.S. into a police state. There was a recent story where cops burst in on a group of old men at a VFW hall playing cards because they had a tip there were drugs there. The only drugs were one man's heart medications--and he was so startled by the cops charging in with automatic weapons leveled that he had a heart attack!

The war on drugs is pissing into the wind and getting it back in your face. It's well beyond the point of insanity. It's not going to work. It's never going to work.
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 9
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 2:45:12 PM
LOL--noodler, I never thought I would meet a man more cynical than myself--but there you are!!
 Avatar000
Joined: 3/2/2005
Msg: 10
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 3:11:23 PM
"In reality, illegal drugs are at least as harmful, if not more harmful, than alcohol and tobacco. Illegal drugs kill fewer people only because fewer people use them. Keeping them illegal holds use down: 18 million marijuana users compared to 116 million alcohol users; 6 million cocaine users compared to 60 million tobacco users."

"The single greatest difference between legal and illegal drugs is that illegal drugs generate no profits to spend on advertising and marketing. Once a democratic society legalizes drugs, the forces of free trade and free speech will take over. Cocaine, marijuana, heroin, PCP, LSD and other currently illegal drugs will be mass-marketed as alcohol and tobacco are mass marketed today. Far more people will use newly legalized drugs and far more people will die."
Penalties against drug use have prevented and delayed millions of people from using alcohol and other drugs. People have a natural respect for the law, especially children and adolescents. According to the 1987 National High School Senior Survey, half of these students never used marijuana, 85 percent never used cocaine, and 99 percent never used heroin. Compare this with the same students who have never used tobacco (33 percent) and alcohol (8 percent). 6 Although illegal for minors, alcohol and tobacco are more acceptable drugs to use, and they are inexpensive and easy to obtain. It is clear that social tolerance and availability do contribute to an increase in drug use.


--well, maybe. But let's be brutally honest. If they are going to use drugs they know can kill them, and they die, that's there problem. I believe there might be a surge at first, but as the addicts die off it will even out.


"Penalties against drug use have prevented and delayed millions of people from using alcohol and other drugs. People have a natural respect for the law, especially children and adolescents. According to the 1987 National High School Senior Survey, half of these students never used marijuana, 85 percent never used cocaine, and 99 percent never used heroin. Compare this with the same students who have never used tobacco (33 percent) and alcohol (8 percent). 6 Although illegal for minors, alcohol and tobacco are more acceptable drugs to use, and they are inexpensive and easy to obtain. It is clear that social tolerance and availability do contribute to an increase in drug use. "

There are so many problems with that I don't know where to begin. Quite aside from the high probability these statistics are fudged in order to fit a preselected agenda, tolerance of the "legal drugs" is not uniform--33% never used tobacco, versus 8% for alchohol. Why? Tobacco has been demonized far more than alchohol, but nothing like to the extent the illegal drugs have been. It's reasonable to conclude that if the drugs were legalized and more money spent on education the numbers would changed even more. Furthermore, that survey is nearly 20 years old and does not necessarily reflect the current situation.

"Between 1972 and 1978, eleven states in this country decriminalized marijuana. Advocates who lobbied states in behalf of decriminalization insisted then that decriminalization would not increase use. But it did. During the decrim years, marijuana use rose 125 percent among high school seniors, 200 percent among older adults, and 240 percent among teenagers. Interestingly, marijuana use in this country peaked one year after the eleventh and final state decriminalized."

Maybe that's true--but if it is, so frigging what? The main problem is not the drugs themselves but the crime surrounding their illegal sale and use. And pot is far more used than reported. If there were a 200% surge in the use of all these drugs I wouldn't mind since crime would probably drop 200% or more. Let the addicts snort, shoot or smoke themselves to death. It's their business, and I for one am sick of shelling out tax dollars to try and stop them.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 11
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History
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/30/2005 3:12:20 PM
Great Post Avatar, and by in large I agree! I'm not sure about legalizing everything, but just decriminalizing pot would help our country immeasureably. While young men jump out of Chinooks in Colombia some ***hole down the street is growing pot or worse yet setting up a meth lab. Drugs support terrorists because we enable their black market. That commercial is a crock folks. Hate to brake it to you, Marijuanna is far and away America's number one cash crop for one reason, prohibition. I think that there is an intracted hysteria with some drugs in our country, but as a recovered coke head of twenty years this May I don't believe unfettered access to everything is a solution. CAMP, citizens against Marijuanna Purveyance: Not long ago Budweiser was their biggest contributor. Conflict of interest? In my mind it is.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 12
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The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 3/31/2005 10:52:27 AM
Great post Trewg! Hemp was big for the war effort before, this war was all about oil. Amazing concept, when confronted with an issue of National Security might we also actually visit the taboo of Planned Obsolesence?
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 13
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History
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 4/1/2005 12:04:35 PM
Thanks for the articulation Trewg! I'll learn how to drive the computer some day.
 acosta99
Joined: 4/9/2005
Msg: 15
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/8/2005 1:59:00 AM
legalize lcd,
-it's natural,grows from rye bread naturally from the ergot fungus.
-it's one of the most non-toxic drugs on the face of the earth.
-except for elephants,which are for some reason,extremely sensitive to it.
-any thoughts?
 acosta99
Joined: 4/9/2005
Msg: 16
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/8/2005 2:16:19 AM
no thoughts
 viceguy2
Joined: 4/3/2005
Msg: 22
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/9/2005 9:56:25 AM
Great insight Watchman...on this and other issues (abortion)...God bless!
 shannanigan
Joined: 12/26/2004
Msg: 23
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/9/2005 10:18:46 AM

Do you really believe that the speed pilots use allows them better reaction time than without?



Not to mention speed also gives you a short attention span.
No thanks, I'll take my pilots on normal, responsible reaction times

 shannanigan
Joined: 12/26/2004
Msg: 24
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/9/2005 10:37:03 AM
Prohibition simply made Bootleggers rich and gave rise to organized crime.
Just like making drugs illegal makes Dealers rich... it does nothing to
stop drug use.

If we are going to make Pot illegal, then Alcohol should also be illegal.
It kills more innocent people than pot smoking... there is no comparison
between those two. Drinking Alcohol is much worse, but its completely legal.

That said, I think drugs are totally lame. I've watched too many friends
die from heroin, addicted to cocaine, "brain dead" from smoking pot... but
I've also seen so many more people destroy thier lives with booze.
 eccentric
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 25
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/9/2005 10:54:37 AM
Hitler was very against smoking and drinking

He said you have a duty to stay healthy, that you had no rights to your own body, and that it belonged to the state.
 eccentric
Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 26
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/9/2005 7:09:26 PM
My point being that the state has no right to stop me from destroying my own body
 ivychevy
Joined: 5/14/2005
Msg: 27
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 5/16/2005 8:33:36 AM
Hi
I have worked with many teens and the issue is always the same - as long as they have access to them they will try them ! The rate at which they are available now these days is incredible here in Canada! Way too many kids are doing the hard drugs - if drugs were legal - it just may cut down on the availability to kids - something has to be done to save these children - these are the kids who will be taking care of me when I go into a retirement home someday - very scary thought !

How do we try to save them from this awful life of drug induced thinking ? I like the fact of legalization.
 SelfSufficient
Joined: 12/14/2005
Msg: 28
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 7/3/2006 4:41:29 PM
Of course its a scam with the CIA and federa government being the biggest importer of illegal drugs into the country. Tha is not even taking into account that the was on drugs is itself illegal and unconstituional. If the alcohol prohibition took a constitutional amendment they wh didn't the war on drugs?


I usually ask someone that is for the war on drugs the question:

How much violence are you personaly comfortable with using to keep someone from smoking a joint?

Somtimes that makes a light go on in their head.... sometimes not.
 sd_matt
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 29
The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 8/14/2006 9:04:35 PM
Left and Right will debate all day yet they fall for the same bottle of placebos.

One is Gun Control and the other is The War on Drugs.

Method; Take an object or substance and assign it human qualities. Then make it more illegal. Avoid people with first hand experience..ie..police who have spent time on the street or people from AA or NA who have openly talked about their "gateway" into abuse. Be sure not to ask those people who have first hand experience for solutions. And be sure to assume that all alcoholics and addicts want to stop. And assume that all gun owners are criminals. Remember always to generalize.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 30
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The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 4/15/2007 9:27:19 PM
OP on the Government side you forgot the CIA actually running drugs ... a bit contradictory for a government to decry illegal drugs while at the same time profiting from them. As long as everyones attention is focused on any heatted topic that they have no intention of solving it is easier to do as they please and not raise much fuss.

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/blum1.html
 maxxoccupancy
Joined: 2/5/2007
Msg: 31
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The War on Drugs Is a SCAM
Posted: 4/22/2007 5:49:21 PM
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition www.leap.cc has a lot of good information on the Drug War. Spain, Italy, and Luxembourg have decriminalized most drugs, and their crime rates have declined. They still have drug use and addiction, but no illegal drug traffic. Portugal and Holland have effectively decriminalized all drugs, and their respective crime rates have declined even more. Britain, Canada, and Switzerland are now approaching the drug problem as a medical, rather than a criminal problem, though they maintain the illegal traffic.

In America, the Drug War was launched in 1968, and stepped up in 1970, 1983, and 1990, all followed by major crime increases. Just as with alcohol prohibition, the illegal traffic causes more problems than the drug itself. Drugs hurt the drug users, while drug prohibition is hurting and killing innocent bystanders. I've heard from police chiefs who would arrest every drug dealer in town, only to have the demand filled by dangerous gangs.

Thousands of innocent people have been killed in botched drug raids, high speed chases, and gang violence that never happened before the war on drugs. Thousands more have had their homes raided, while more have been imprisoned--even people who've never had anything to do with drugs. Inner city neighborhoods have been turned upside down, and civil liberties have been torn up. Respect for the rule of law has been lost, and whole police departments and federal agencies have been corrupted.

I am supporting Ron Paul's presidential campaign because he is talking about the drug war. He has consistently worked in Congress to try to give the states back their sovereignty, and their ability to deal with local drug and crime issues.
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