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 summer999
Joined: 11/2/2006
Msg: 8
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A biblical relationshipPage 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
I would put it another way.

It seems today all anybody really wants is rights and freedoms. What happened to responsibilities? It is my right to have as many chidren as I want with as many different men as I want. BUT I want no responsibility to bring them up, provide for them and all that boring stuff.

Till death do us part ... or I get a better offer, or I need to find myself, or the sacrifices I have to make of my time/interests/personal growth get to be too much. Then I will get a quickie divorce and start it all over again elsewhere.

It may be called religion or whatever other label one wants to put to it. I call it being a good person and taking responsibility for my actions. One day that may give me some rights, like the right to be treated with respect by my children and the right to know I did a great job.

Just my old fashioned, boring 2 cents worth.
 Scheherrazade
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 9
A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/27/2006 7:03:48 AM
Marriage has almost always been about financial stability. Up until almost less than a couple of hundred years ago a woman came with a dowry of anything from goats to gold. After WWII when the largest group of women moved into the work force, it was out of necessity because the single income household could no longer support them. There are many women in this day and age who would be perfectly happy to stay at home and raise their children but cannot afford to because their husband does not make enough, not to mention the female work force has started looking down on housewife's and homemakers as a job for the uneducated. The welfare system has made it easier for a man to abandon his family and not worry about their upkeep. There are also a growing number of men who have gotten a taste of being submissive and enjoyed it.

This country was built on the concept of freedom of religion. We all have the right to worship whatever god we want too. The only way your biblical relationship is going to work is by two Christian people who are seriously committed to the idea.
 txtobyfan
Joined: 10/29/2005
Msg: 18
A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/27/2006 7:30:12 PM
I disagree...teh Bible is as relavant now is it was when it was written. If the "Ephesians" woman is outdated, then that makes the whole Bible outdated. When God says submissive, he doesnt mean a doormat, and he wants women to marry men they can respect. On theother hand, men have to cherish woman like they cherish themselves (and we all know how men hold themselves in such high esteem,LOL) I have morals, and it hasnt been a problem for me..If you want a man to respect you, you have to respect yourself (Lord, I sound like my mother here!!) Just a thought from a middle aged ol lady....
 Scheherrazade
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 20
A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/28/2006 7:36:18 AM
Maybe more a failing of the times than of men. In this day and age its almost impossible for the man to take the entire burden of them family on himself without the assistance of his wife working outside the home. That also has a lot to do with our children being undisciplined. As a single mother I know how difficult it is to control a child when you can not keep constant tabs on them.

If I'm not mistaken the bible says "Women, submit to your husband" Not Be submissive. There is a big difference. Submit means give yourself to your husband, body and soul, while being submissive means having no will of your own. For a marriage to work there has to be a certain amount of equality in them and respect from both parties. Yet in times of crisis, the majority of women tend to look to their husband and say "Okay, whatcha gonna do now?" When the man fails that responsibility is when the marriage is likely to fail.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 22
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/28/2006 8:54:28 AM
At the time the Bible was compiled, women were pretty much the most treasured livestock a man owned. That did not change much for centuries and in some societies, it still hasn't. Some women relish the idea of being so "pampered". I have nothing against women who want this kind of life but I personally want someone who thinks for themselves enough to keep my mind sharp.

Sparing the rod? Using physical attacks on children as "punishment" is a cowardly act of vengence from a bully or simply out of control anger. Either way, it is a teaching example of violence used to solve problems. If someone bothers to use the brain God gave them, they would provide positive inspiration to kids. It really works but it takes using your brain. Having been around kids a lot, I see the results of unspared rods. They are the sneeky, lying, angry, cheating bullies their parents taught them to be. The thing these kids got best at, is hiding their issues from their parents. This is the only thing they seem to use their brain for. What is most sad is how they rationalize their own behavior and actually see themselves as "good people". This is even easier if they can push off their sins on someone who died 2000 years ago. The Bible is full of many great lessons but keep it in context. The lessons should be used to inspire us, not to rationalize the worst in us. Some may have rationalized so much that they consider violence against children a good thing. For inspired kids, bravery, honor, and courage are second nature. To them, it is not hard at all. I am extremely proud of the Eagle scouts I worked with as kids. Many are now serving their country because they want to. To them, bravery, honor, and courage is what they thrive on, not something they would rather not do.

If God had meant for us to take on a bear or shark with our bare hands, then God must have considered us nothing more than food. Is there some confusion in the meaning of the words "Pray and Prey"? Many animals have God given capabilities to kill anything in their domain, including us. We were not even given fur to keep the cold out. Instead, we were given a brain making us potentially far superior to the most deadly natural predator but only if we use it.

My profile has pictures of me at Yellowstone. Few places can give you a greater sense of God's power than seeing Grizzlies while standing in the mouth of a volcano 30 miles wide by 50 miles long. Our little personal man-made drama's are laughable jokes. The POF site can be an opportunity to meet some wonderful people or a place to display your insecurities. Make it what you want but don't be upset when you get what you ask for.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 26
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/28/2006 10:58:59 AM
A man "allowed" to be a man is really a quite funny concept. A man who finds himself "allowed" to be what he is should find a new environment. That one is not healthy, it is manipulative. He should be respected for what and who he is just as his partner should be respected for what and who she is.

Men did not evolve running the home, women did simply out of child birth and early childhood development needs. Men were the providers and developed physically and mentally different from women in many ways. When men run the household, they tend to be autocratic yet not particularly efficient. That is largely due to men being more project oriented and women process oriented. People in a relationship should be partners with each contributing what they do best. Running a home is a process. It should also be noted that in raising boys and girls, the most effective processes are different for boys and girls. Boys benefit more from milestones and singular acheivements where girls benefit better from the social processes. We should celebrate these complementary differences.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 30
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/28/2006 2:00:49 PM
I work with scouts as well as special olympics. The only "stronger" I have seen from corporal punishment was their will to hide future transgressions. Telling a challenged (possessed?) child to cast out his demons and even beating him to try to get that result has been done many times in the name of religion. As for a human taking on a bear or shark, well there are bears and sharks and there are bears and sharks. I would be interested in hearing about a single incedent of a human taking on a full grown healthy grizzley or large shark bare handed and winning an actual battle to the death. Some animals will turn away and leave but it is out of fear of the unknown, not overwhelming capability. Usually, the human has some weapon just to survive. The animal attack is often quicker than the time it takes to produce adrenalin and reach the muscles.

I too was raised in a Baptist environment but I had the nerve to check out some of the facts I had drummed into me and found many to be outright lies not unlike the UFO stories. One concerned ancient metal alloys with fantastic properties that seemed to be virtually identical to the UFO metals found a few years ago near Roswell. The fragments are on display in Roswell. I am interested in seeing similar religious artifacts with special powers. A local artist later identified the fragments as his waste from jewlery making. The testing done in the interim on the metals was highly exaggerated. The problem in making claims in a religious setting is that the setting is one where faith itself is the point. That opens the door to fantastic stories meant to inspire awe in those listening without questioning their validity. Often such questioning could result in corporal punishment. Just look at a typical Baptist preacher's hair. It is styled to resemble some devine vision. Sorry if I sound synical but I have seen too many people hurt by the actions of others in the name of religion or out of some religious rationalization. I have a number of relatives who are preachers.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 32
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/28/2006 9:20:36 PM
The Romans had some very good weapons and technology. Their armies were well trained. Capturing animals with traps, nets, ropes and a lot of man power was not only possible, it is still done today with almost no change. Ancient man hunted with sharpend sticks and typically picked on non-predators. He hunted in packs using his intelligence for teamwork. Many animals also hunt this way including sea mammals and even some sharks only they don't have to find or create weapons. They are born with them.

Bullies are often gang members with guns nowadays. I figure its a much better turning point when a person can rise above the desire for revenge than to get shot by a crack head.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 47
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 12/30/2006 9:10:33 PM
People wear clothes to protect from the elements much like hermit crabs and to conform to society's norms. What we learn from our society in the form of rules change from one society to another. Organized religion is a creation of society and its form also varies. Odd that I was taught in sunday school how men have one less rib than women and why. Since I have an even number of ribs the same as women do, I guess that would make me deformed. Should I cast out my extra rib so I will have an odd number?
 ligonmaximus
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 62
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 1/15/2007 7:04:52 PM
I am a christian but I don't know much about "biblical relationships" I do know all how a healthy relationship should be between men and women. In a healthy relationship both men and women should live independant lives. This means they should both have a life outside of the relationship. All that means is both men and women should be in a relationship that NOT co dependant. I am not talking about cheating or anything like that.


I think the real issue is here is that many men in modern society are not real men many us are man boys Even though we are men physically we nare not Real men. A christan man should be a real man who takes charge and makes decisions, is strong, confident, a real go geter, a leader, but NOT a control freak. TONS more to what I am talking about but will end here for now.
 ligonmaximus
Joined: 4/23/2006
Msg: 66
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 1/15/2007 7:53:04 PM
Thanks countrygal...... I see it all the time with my fellow christian men they let the women take charge even with simple things like deciding where all we are going to eat lunch after church. I want to take charge and decide but being the new guy at church that isn't going to happen. lol I think churches should do more to make christian boys into REAL men. I am not saying we should drive up to church with Harleys covered with 100 tattoos but they should teach all christian boys how to grow up and stop being dependant on first their mother then their future wife/girlfriend for happiness.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 69
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/8/2007 8:17:13 AM
This thread needs to be thrown into bin 13 ,95 pecent of the junk on here is just that,junk.

So 95% of everyone else's opinions are junk but this opinion of yours is not?


People wanting to someone to prove there is a God is stupid. Why don't those that don't believe God is prove he isn't rather than trying to make others prove he is.

In the world of logic, the only reasonable proof is to prove God exists. Proving anything, including God, does not exist, is a task greater than knowing everything in the universe.


Some who believe God doesn't exist are those that believe ice don't melt...

Look up the word sublimation. Ice does not have to melt to evaporate and thus no longer exist as ice. In this regard, it is much like CO2 and dry ice. In a pressure vessel at room temperature, dry ice will melt into a liquid.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 72
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/8/2007 10:37:01 AM
I really don't believe ice always melts when it ceases to exist as ice. The scientific term is sublimation. The point is that trying to prove God does not exist is a waste of time. To do so serves only to attack someone elses religious beliefs. That is disrespect much like dismissing the opinions of others.

The Bible on the other hand, is not God's creation but a text compiled and published by man. It is clear from this thread that people disagree on its interpretation, literal accuracy, and even its completeness. The story of Adam and Eve is part of the creationist concept that conflicts with observations in science. The observations in science are of many creations in the universe and assuming there is a God, they are God's own creations. His creations before science are his words, not man's words or interpretations. When it comes to choosing which to believe, I choose Gods words over man's. I really don't consider God to be a liar as many interpretations of the Bible would. After that preface, one only has to look at what God's own words are to find understanding and purpose. The laws of man can and are broken. The laws of God cannot be broken. It happens that in my profession, use these laws. Most call them the laws of physics. Any time I fail to follow them, I am not successful. When I pay attention to them, I am successful. Many professions deal with the laws of man. Success does not depend on following them or any laws, they simply depend on convincing others. Would preachers fall into this catagory?

TTicker, what do you think you need to know or better yet, what are you willing to learn?
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 76
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/8/2007 1:29:46 PM

God's laws have been broken ,or being broken and continue being broken.


Show me where God created any law that has been broken? Just one single incedent. Among Gods creatures, it would appear the laws as described in religious text are broken quite often. Never have the laws of physics been broken although there are plenty of cases of false witness from those claiming otherwise.

A preacher's success is measured by how many people he can get his message to. That requires convincing people of something in order to get them to listen.

Evolution is backed up by many things including genetics. The very chemical building blocks that form humans are also found in all other living things. Specific traits found in other animals are found in humans and have been traced to specific genes common to both. In experiments, genes have even been taken from one species of plant or animal and put in the other to bring a specific trait to the other. This includes crossing between plants and animals. God has shown us these things and given us the brains to understand them. Religious leaders have killed a great many people in attempts to suppress this knowledge. All this while teaching thou shall not kill and thou shall not commit false witness. They did the same thing to those who claimed the earth was flat.

Since when has a preacher been qualified to teach physics? What would it take to CONVINCE YOU that a person is qualified to teach anything? Was the Reverend Jim Jones qualified? How about David Koresh? There seem to be quite a few religious teachers able to convince suicide bombers that they are serving God.


I do not belive God is a liar either. But I also do not believe you can read every interpretation of different bibles and stay with the true and living God's laws and commandments which is his word.

Don't forget works like the Tora, book of Morman, Koran etc. What about religious works that predate some civiliation's written word? Is your book still in the language it was written in and did that language change any?
So you feel there is only one version of the Bible and somehow Gods work such as dinosaur remains, continental drift, erosion such as the grand canyon, and evolution is just some joke God came up with to keep us busy? Maybe some test of faith?

Am I twisting words too much or are the religious leaders creating suicide bombers, apolyptic cults, inquisitions, etc.?
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 79
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/8/2007 6:43:53 PM
So you deem the science behind evolution wrong in favor of the physics of creationism taught by preachers, not physicists. So what part did I get wrong? Since the vast majority of physicists, scientists etc. find all the scientific evidence is against creationism and supporting evolution, does that mean there are no scientists QUALIFIED to teach?

As for contradicting myself about the existance of God, I would have to say that would be a misinterpretation on your part. In the common understanding of time, the universe as we know it is about 16 billion years old and our little ball of scum covered magma about 4.5 billion. The sun, an average star among hundreds of billions, has been in relative stable fusion for most of that time. Somewhere early on, our ball of magma got hit by some other space debris and the moon formed. Many other pieces of icy junk collided and the conditions were ripe for life.............. All this though violent, followed a set of laws we still have today. None of it answers how the laws came about.

Note, I do believe Jesus existed and was executed by the government under the supervision of the occupying Roman empire. It seems he had a different opinion about religion and some people get upset about such things. We see that here in this very thread.

Dave,either post things in the proper way or stop posting

If you don't like a particular thread, you don't have to participate.

So is a Biblical relationship modeled after the acceptable relationship of biblical times? If not, then what has changed about the Bible?
 greenboy
Joined: 1/6/2006
Msg: 86
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/9/2007 5:09:41 AM
i saw this posting and just had to read it. i am in, and have been in the southern baptist denomination most all my life. i have attended other denominations and was even a member of a non-denominational church for 17 years. but what i have learned from each and every one of the churches that i have been in is one thing, the creation of man.
when God put adam to sleep he did not take the bone from aams heel, to put man over woman. he did not take the bone from the head, to make man feel inferier to woman. he took the rib from theside of adam, putting women equal to man in most aspects of life.
my dad, who graduated from the south western baptist theological simanary, had a talk a few years back after the baptist came out and proclaimed that the women shopuld in all things submit to their husbands. i did not have a problem wit hthe statement but i did question the tone that it was presented in. my dad had a problem with the fact that they said nothing bout the husbands responceabilty.
the bible gives a list of things to women to do when they are married, i can't think of them all. but it only gives the man one thing, love your wife as jesus loved the church, even as far as laying down his life. that in itself covers so much more than dying. he served the church he washed peoples feet. he gave everything that he had, he comforted people, everthing that jesus christ did he did for the church and that is how wifes are to e treated.
now if your man was to treat you the way that jesus treated the church, do you think that women would have a problem being submisive?
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 89
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/9/2007 6:40:45 AM
It is quite clear, not everybody is willing to learn, at least not from science.

If a biblical relationship is not as it was from biblical times, then what has changed in the bible? If the bible can be changed, what are all the implications from that?
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 94
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/10/2007 7:49:45 PM
Ticker, I am not the one that called for this thread to end, it was you. I really don't care if you are willing to listen to anyone including me but I actually enjoy this thread. If you don't like it, simply don't participate. Is that too hard for you? If you are not going to try to understand, why do keep comming back? Usually, the pig gets annoyed and leaves when being taught something the pig does not want to do.

Ticker, you do accuse me of denying the existance of God and in no way have I done that. I have stated that trying to prove God does not exist is virtually impossible therefor it would be quite a leap for me to deny the existance of God. I do question the accuracy of the Bible and all its translations, versions, missing or included books etc. That gets back to the topic of a biblical relationship. I really don't think a Taliban styled relationship fits the modern world. God did not give women (or men) a brain and free will to be wasted. At least that is my opinion although it is contrary to 47% of Americans. On the positive side, 53% of Americans accept science and a majority of those still hold religious beliefs.
 Ahoytheredave
Joined: 8/29/2006
Msg: 96
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A biblical relationship
Posted: 2/10/2007 9:08:38 PM
I assumed everybody had heard the old line, "One shouldn't try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig". I simply did not figure on you not knowning the old phrase. I guess I overestimated.

I really don't know where you got the Mormanism bit from but if you wish to make that assumption about me also, I am willing to let you enjoy the fantasy. After all, I could not prove what I believe to anyone although some could be convinced.

As for why I participate in any given thread, its usually because it is an active thread. I did not re-activate the thread but since it was active so I checked it out. Your comment was that you did not want the thread to continue but for some reason, you keep comming back to it. Again, why is it so difficult for you to ignor a thread you don't like?

You really don't have an understanding of my "belief" system but then that would require an open mind about science. You seem to equate it with some blind faith but that is not what it is at all. It is a set of conclusions based on evidence and logic but it would not be science if the conclusions were not subject to change. That is what the word theory is all about. As for evolution, I am not aware of any evidence contrary to the theory of evolution and a lot in favor of it. Scientific evidence must be repeatable by others skilled at the necessary art. I am open minded about it and I am assuming from your comments about it, you are not.
 anastasis300
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 104
A biblical relationship
Posted: 4/4/2007 8:34:25 AM
Song of Solomon describes the perfect Biblical relationship. It's basically a textbook of Judaic Tantric Yoga.

I'm currently translating it. I'll give you some of what I have so far.

SONG OF SONGS

"Oh, let him keep kissing me with the kisses of his lips!
For thy love tastes far better than wine!
Thine oils, they do smell so sweet!
Pouring oil sounds the name of thine!
That is why the ladies love thee!

[Second Station]

Beckon me to come to thee!
And let us chase one the other
For my King brings me to his secret chamber!

[CHORUS OF FAIR ONES]

We are enthralled with thee!
and you do so exite!
We savor thy lover better than wine to be
They do love thee aright!...........

v.5

I am darkly tanned and beautiful!
O daughters of Jerusalem
Like the tent skins of Kedar
Like the secret veils of Shloahmon
Do not stare at me because I am tanned!
For the Sun has tanned me!

My Mother's sons have been cruel to me
But they are the very ones from whom
I was made to take care of Vineyards

So I need to take care of my Vineyard!


Chap. 2

Like a red apple tree in the Trees of the Woods
So is my Lover among all the men
Under his Shade, I saw such great delight
And knelt down on my knees
And his Fruit tasted so good upon my palate!

Just tell me this, O my soul-lover
Where is that spot where you Bishop you Lamb?
Where is that spot where you make her lie down
At midday and noontime?

For how should I too go astray
and wander off like all those other sheep
of your passionless male peers!

If you do not know, fairest woman of all
Let your fingers walk down my pasture trail
And then guide your young feminist goats
to the tents of real Bishops!

...

"I insist, O daughters of Jerusalem, that you neither awake nor stir my lover til she urgently yearns."
...
"Hurry up, my lover! and leap like a Gazelle or a Young Stag up into my mountains of spicy Bether!
...

Sounds like a plan....
 badmane2
Joined: 2/23/2007
Msg: 122
A biblical relationship
Posted: 5/29/2007 4:11:55 AM
God love us sinners. He just hates our sin.
 badmane2
Joined: 2/23/2007
Msg: 126
A biblical relationship
Posted: 5/30/2007 6:28:24 PM
All you really need to know is Jesus is God. Confess your sins to him and ask him to be your savior. Thats how you get to heaven.
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