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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1
Tories Unveil Attack AdsPage 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

Tories unveil their attack ads
Canadian Press

OTTAWA — The Conservatives have unveiled three new television ads directly attacking newly minted Liberal Leader Stephane Dion.

The English-language ads, which begin airing immediately and will be followed by a second series of French ads, assert that Mr. Dion is a weak leader who would take the country back to the past.

They also assert that he was a flop as environment minister, charging that greenhouse gas emissions went up and air quality went down under Mr. Dion's watch.

The ads use footage from last fall's Liberal leadership debates, including clips of Michael Ignatieff, now Mr. Dion's deputy leader, and Ken Dryden admitting that the Liberals failed to meet the Kyoto targets for emission reductions.

One ad includes a clip of Mr. Dion plaintively responding to attacks on his environmental record, telling Ignatieff he doesn't know how hard it is to set priorities.

The Conservatives, who have secured a prized spot for the ads during next weekend's Canadian broadcast of the Super Bowl, refused to say how much the party is spending on the election-style campaign.


What does this tell us? I think we can make a few safe assumptions because of this:

First, it looks like the Tories are expecting a spring election. That's a lot of money to spend if the election is 8 months or more away.

Second, the Tories have more money than they can spend in an election campaign and clearly feeling stakey. I'm going to guess that most of that money came from corporations and individuals who really liked it when Harper was decrying Global Warming as "alarmist." So the money used to attack Dion on the environment is coming largely from those opposed to environmental regulations.

Third, despite all protests to the contrary, Harper is just another politician. All this talk about saying what he means and sticking to it has been shown to be nonsense. I always thought that it was politically stupid to attack Kyoto as he did since the only place that played well was Alberta and he already had all the seats there. He needed to make inroads in Quebec and Ontario where Kyoto was wildly popular. I forgot that huge fortunes and corporations depend on ignoring Kyoto. So despite being unpopular among the general public, his stance was very popular where it counted.

Fourth, the Tories have adopted a Karl Rove style of politicing: namely hit your opponent on his strengths, not his weaknesses. They went after McCain on his war record, falsely claiming he betrayed his government while a POW. They went after Kerry on his war record. The Tories are going after Dion on the environment because that's the issue he won the leadership on, and where he is strongest.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 2
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Posted: 1/31/2007 7:56:35 AM
I must admit that I just couldn't believe it when I read the news yesterday of the letter from Harper (above from ewok123) about the Kyoto accord.

Just like in the US, it's always about oil and gas...money and power…never about the environment!

Since he realized that he's slipping in the polls, he's now pro environment??? Talk about being a hypocrite!
 Ottawa_Chicklet
Joined: 8/5/2006
Msg: 3
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Posted: 1/31/2007 6:02:48 PM
I pretty much agree with the OP. I will say, though, the Kyoto Accord is quite flawed so backing out of it is not a bad thing. However, I do believe that the environment should be the top issue right now, and it seems to be a growing concern for most Canadians.

I'd like to think Canadians are quite informed, and would never fall for any type of "Rove Style" dirty election campaign.
 Etownboy79
Joined: 8/3/2006
Msg: 4
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/3/2007 3:40:55 PM
I'm no Harper enthusiast, nor am I in favour of any environmental programs to date, but in Harper's defense I think I'll point out some inconsistencies in the complaints posed in this thread.

1. One poster said he would like to see a government body that listens to the people's requests. The letter from the Canadian Press clearly indicates that some new polls have concluded that the issues surrounding the environment are becoming a "top priority" among Canadians. Perhaps then, Harper actually is listening to the people, and doing something they think they want, despite what Harper himself believes. Irrelevant is the fact that he may be playing into the favour of the voters, because he is at least taking action to do what they want.

2. This thread is based on the perceived anger that could surface from some possible upcoming tory attack ads that we haven't seen yet, directed at liberals. Further into the thread, "ewok" posted a newsletter from the Canadian press. The newsletter contains some left-winger quotes that are clearly attacking Harper for his flip-flopping on the envronment issue. So, then, is it okay to criticize a possible attack ad that we haven't seen yet, with the help of other attack ads? My point is that atttack ads are totally acceptable as long as they're truthful. If your opponent has made a mistake, expose him for it, since his credibility is just as much on trial as are his political agendas. However, I realize that if Harper is using tax funded dollars to campaign himself during the expensive time slots of the superbowl, and not using sponsored dollars by some large corporation(s), I would be totally opposed to that. I would not be opposed to corporate sponsorship though, since that money doesn't come out of my pocket.


That's about it I guess. Other than who is financially responsible for the ads, I don't think there's any real issue here.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 5
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/4/2007 5:59:13 PM
There's still a little bit of journalism here in the Canadian media, so when the Tories came out with this Harper's comments that the Kyoto Accord is just a socialist, anti-capitalist, job killing plot were reported. Kind of sucks for them now. Every time that ad runs it's just going to remind people that the PM is the biggest supporter of unregulated pollution in the country.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 6
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/5/2007 11:06:31 AM
The message is ridiculous. Cameras are on these guys all the time. I've heard a film editor say that he could take any public figure and make them look ridiculous by splicing together some stumbles. The issue is the environment and the Tories are the worst choice of all the parties on that issue.
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 7
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Posted: 2/5/2007 3:02:33 PM
i chuckle when i hear the part about the GST and how the liberals promised to get rid of it but didn't. Hmm,the conservatives were the ones who introduced it in the first place, hopefully we wont forget that. That and wow, they reduced it by a whopping 1%, guys, we owe the harper team our lives for that.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 8
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/5/2007 3:50:33 PM
I've got to hand it to you Matty, you've taken on a thankless task in defending this bunch. But you might want to tone down the partisanship a little. I've been a political junkie all my life and every politico I've ever known can **** about his own party better than anybody in any other party.

I'm sure in Tory circles this ad is getting griped over in far more unflattering terms than we are in this modest forum.
 gerrymac
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 9
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Posted: 2/5/2007 3:59:53 PM
Contributions to political parties are tax deductible. Therefore I, and everyone else, is supporting these advertisements. I find this offensive.

The intention, at least of any that I've talked to, of donating the monies to political parties is to support advertising and other costs during election campaigns. Not between campaigns. This is the first time money attacking another leader/party has been spent in this way between campaigns.

Apart from this, there are limits on what parties can spend during election campaigns. Running advertisements immediately prior to an anticipated campaign to avoid the rules is unethical and dishonest.

Finding loopholes in the rules is dishonest. No rule can be written to exclude all possibilities or abuses. The POINT of the rule is the SPIRIT of the rule. Violating the spirit of the rule by using a loophole is weasel-y. Using doublespeak is weasel-y and dishonest. How can we in our culture teach kids to obey rules when our political leaders use "loopholes" to avoid them....just what does that teach our kids?

Nixon used to read the American Constitution at night to find loopholes so that he could do things and not be held legally accountable to them. George Bush is playing the same kind of game. And, clearly, Stephen Harper is too.

Here we have a government that is using practices & language learned from the Republicans in the US (this has been documented.....for instance Harper's language around the issue of Global Warming is identical to that of a document produced for the Republicans in the US to suppress concern about issues involving Global Warming....he has hit on every talking point in that document. For instance, until recently he never used the phrase "Global Warming" but instead referred to "Climate Change"...which is exactly what the document produced for the Republicans to manipulate the public on the issue of Global Warming said to do).....and sets a new low for the political tone in our country. The "attack" ads are part of that pattern.

Oh, and Dion was only in charge of that department for a short time, and in that few months produced a detailed policy document on how the government should deal with the issue which was then cast aside when the CPC got elected.....blaming him for the slow implementation, which is the norm for these types of policies, is ridiculous. Blaming him for "not doing anything" is also ridiculous.....he produced the document that parliament was going to act on and which the Conservatives indicated quite clearly, in the minority government of the time, that they were going to block. Even if the Martin government had existed for longer it would have been difficult to implement the policies because of the resistance of the conservatives. NOBODY in government other than Dion was talking about this as a serious issue back then.....
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 10
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Posted: 2/5/2007 4:06:16 PM

What does have to do with the topic of the thread anyways?


because the issue of gst is in one of the attack ads.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 12
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/6/2007 3:21:56 PM
Dion didn't have one of the big cabinet posts and couldn't effect real change. But he became convinced of the need for real change and ran on that.

And the comments about Harper come from his history. You can't say it's fair to go after Dion on his past record, than try to ignore Harper's. Harper is starting to say the right things now, but you can't claim he's a leader not swayed by polls once you see his complete flip flop (or should I say dithering) on this issue. I warned you that seeing your party win is always disappointing. This is just an example that he's yet another politician.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 13
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/6/2007 7:30:06 PM
Kyoto isn't enough. But this is a global problem and this is the first step and what everybody was able to agree to. You have to take what you can get and go from there.
 gerrymac
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 14
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Posted: 2/7/2007 7:46:52 PM
1) "The worst Canadian attack ad I've ever seen was by the Lberal's during the last election"

What station was that on?

Oh that's right, they never actually broadcast them.

So, that means they weren't really "advertisements" doesn't it? Because they were never broadcast.

So that means they couldn't be called "attack ads", because "ads" is short for advertisements.

2) Possibly Turner has heard from more than 65 constituents now. And that wasn't much of a representative sample anyways, since it's 65 people who have access to computers and who read his blog....so not something I'd base my political career on.

3) "What dunrich has said about kyoto is dead-on"

Or remarkably uninformed and misrepresentative. Wrong even.

Perhaps you should try reading some of the IPCC report. Or the executive summary even. Or, hey, I personally would encourage you to invest your life savings in oceanfront property. In Florida. Or Bangladesh. Have the courage of your convictions.....it's DARNED safe to live in London Ontario and not be concerned about rising ocean levels. ME? I'll buy property on a darned big hill a good bit back from the ocean.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 15
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/7/2007 9:39:06 PM

The Liberals are master mud slingers. Look at the hype they created saying Harper is a right wing neo con Bush butt kisser. Allot of posters in these forums bought that crap. Its constantly mentioned in political discussions involving our PM. "Bush light" is a popular expression and its off base.


This is coming from the same guy that's referred to Martin more than once as Mr. Dithers. Did that come out of popular expression? Not likely.
 gerrymac
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 16
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Posted: 2/8/2007 4:48:20 AM

and it was on the Liberal website for days.


Errrrr, the video was on there for a day. [As I vaguely recall, the video was not supposed to be posted up there as it hadn't been approved to be by senior liberals] And the video was taken down as soon as there was public criticism of them being there as inappropriate. And considering the massive cancelling of social programs and the tens of billions of dollars spent on the military in the last 12 months, as a metaphor they were certainly spot on.

Anyways, you had to go LOOKING for them to find them. Kinda different than the current TV advertisements which just show up in front of you while watching television.

Similar negative commentary existed about the conservative ads. And they were still run. Multiple times.

That does kinda say something doesn't it?

As for the comparison with Republican neo-cons, since the Conservative Party of Canada is using the same image and marketing consultants, the same advertising strategies, policy documents paid for by the Republicans (such as on Global Warming and Kyoto....which is well documented), and the same electoral rhetorical approaches, I fail to see how the comparison is inaccurate.

And just how is Kyoto a "crock" when a large proportion of other Western nations signed onto it? Obviously the world is full of true misguided idiots if so many signed on and the protocol has so many flaws. Or maybe you just don't understand it....or are determined to misunderstand it.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 17
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Posted: 2/8/2007 7:14:47 AM

and anybody in their right mind who has read this accord slash crock of shit and how its supposed to work would agree as well


Harper's reasons for scrapping the accord was simple. The accord would affect the Canadian oil industry by forcing them to find new ways to reduce emissions. This means a lot of R&D which they just don't want to do in the first place. Why? Because they already know that it can't be done so they would need to reduce production which means the lost of HUGE profits.

But then, that's not the true reason though for scrapping the accord. The oil industry is in fact large contributors to Harper. Follow the money? Harper is imitating Bush. Bush scrapped the accord because it would've affected his profits not to mention very large contributions from the oil industry for his campaigns.

Now because the Liberals are saying that if elected, they will take action in to the accord, the oil industry will pump even more money to Harper so he can use the exact same shameful methods used in the US to discredit his opponents.

This is not the US!...Harper made a huge mistake by using similar tactics that they use south of us and it will show in the next elections.

Even after all he has said about the accord, he now realizes that the next elections will be partly based on the environment so of course, he is now changing his views and tones down on the issue at hand. Hypocrite!


the fact remains that the Liberal's are the masters of despicable campaign ads.

Martin made some mistakes and paid dearly for them but he didn't even came close to the ones Harper did so far which of course, will take him down in the next elections.
 gerrymac
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 18
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Posted: 2/8/2007 7:38:35 AM
POSTING the video on the website had apparently not been approved. Sorry for the insufficient specificity in the previous post.

And if they hadn't been posted, you never would have seen them. So just HOW are they masters of "despicable" ads? (and since they weren't broadcast, they're not "ads" now are they?)

And I'm not even sure how suggesting that the military might end up being on our streets IS "despicable". Don't you admire and support our military forces? They get called out onto our streets for civil emergencies all the time.

And ya, I know I'm "twisting" your words. I'm doing so to make a point about what you're doing.
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 19
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Posted: 2/9/2007 8:57:37 AM

not quite what I was getting at.....I personally believe the Kyoto Accord IS a socialist scheme to transfer wealth from the rich countries to the poor countries...the targets are set so high that there is no way for countries like Canada, US, and China to reach them, what is there to do? wellllll....we can BUY credits from less polluting countries....geeee...how convenient....
the whole concept of transfering credits is not only testiment to the fact that this is a Socialist scheme...it is counter-intuitive, how is this gonna help the environment if rich countries can just say F it to the targets and just buy their way to target achievement, its dumb, dumb dumb dumb...I say give Harper more time to develop a real plan that is realistic and attainable


Actually, if the Liberals would’ve taken steps a long time ago to work on the accord, we would’ve been on target without any problems. The Kyoto accord is a tool that countries use to help each other find alternative sources of energy. Buying credits is a way of saying you failed and this is what it will cost you for NOT putting your pants on. It’s more or less a punitive fee and there’s nothing wrong with that.

The targets were easily attainable and even endorsed by "the largest energy union in Canada, the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers union. Other unions, including the large and influential CAW, have also endorsed Kyoto. Union centrals across Canada, including the Canadian Labour Congress, and the Alberta and BC Federations of Labour have followed suit."

Now why would these unions who represents millions of workers in Canada endorse an accord which according to some, would destroy our economy and even worst job losses??? It just doesn’t make any sense does it? They do because they know that all allegations are unfounded.

Bottom line, oil and gas companies are using scare tactics to prevent the Kyoto accord. They are using their power to control governments…always did and always will.

Follow the money? You betcha!

Here’s some interesting reading…Enjoy!


Even though the national debate over ratifying the Kyoto Protocol is now over, the stage is set for the next one: how to implement Kyoto. With all the talk of job losses, it is surprising that very little has been said about how to mitigate employment impacts. This has to change.

Premier Klein, his cabinet, and several industry associations have been leading the charge against ratifying the Kyoto Protocol. Arguably their most successful tactic is to scare Canadians about massive job losses if Kyoto is implemented. However, it is clear from other actions that Premier Klein and industry spokespeople are not strong advocates for workers, and this situation is no different.

In fact, organized labour has overwhelmingly supported Kyoto ratification. The largest energy union in Canada, the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers union, endorsed an energy policy that included Kyoto implementation. Other unions, including the large and influential CAW, have also endorsed Kyoto. Union centrals across Canada, including the Canadian Labour Congress, and the Alberta and BC Federations of Labour have followed suit.

The reason for their support is that they know that job loss allegations made by Kyoto’s detractors are unfounded. Research shows that though some energy workers could lose their jobs in the short term, these losses will be offset by the creation of new jobs in emerging industries in the energy sector and others.

The Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters (CME) has stated that 450,000 jobs will be lost because of Kyoto, a figure cited everywhere by anti-Kyoto lobbyists. What the CME does not tell us is that over the same time period, 1.8 million jobs—four times as many—will be created. The more recent figure of 244,000 job losses also doesn’t consider the other side of the equation: 1.3 million job gains.
Overall, even under Kyoto, there would be a net increase in jobs in the Canadian energy sector. A 1997 study commissioned by Environment Canada showed that investing in renewable energy creates 60% more jobs that the same investment in conventional energy production. The same investment in energy efficiency creates five times more jobs.
So, post-Kyoto, even the Canadian energy sector will have more jobs created than lost. The problem, however, is that workers who lose their jobs won’t necessarily be the same people who fill newly created jobs. As it is clearly unacceptable to have these workers bear the brunt of climate change action, it is necessary to implement a strategy that allows Canada to meet its Kyoto Protocol commitments while providing transition support and employment for those who may lose their jobs.
Just Transition acknowledges that when society is facing an imperative to change how it does things, workers should not be left holding the bag. A comprehensive transition plan would have two components. The first involves retraining and educational opportunities for displaced energy workers; income assistance so workers can take part in these programs; and relocation funds for those who have to move to find employment. For the estimated 13,000 Canadian energy workers who will be displaced, this component would cost approximately $1 billion over ten years—a small price to pay relative to current annual federal surpluses.
The second part of this transition strategy focuses on encouraging investment and job creation in emerging energy industries. According to a federal government study, simply implementing policies to reach Kyoto will create additional business and investment opportunities in Canada of at least $90 billion over ten years. From investment opportunities come employment opportunities.

But Canada should also engage in active industrial policy to shift our economy away from fossil fuels and cultivate homegrown sustainable energy industries. The federal government could establish energy efficiency funds (modeled on the Toronto Atmospheric Fund), shift subsidies from conventional energy to renewable electricity production, and fund public transit.

There are tremendous economic opportunities in becoming more energy efficient and developing new technologies in alternative fuels, fuel-efficient vehicles, and in wind, geothermal, solar, and tidal power. Over the next decade, global demand for these renewable forms of electricity is expected to continue the double-digit growth it experienced every year of the 1990s (there are over 12,000 jobs in the Danish wind industry).

Making industries, residences, and businesses more energy efficient will only make the Canadian economy stronger. Some companies have already shown that meeting Kyoto can benefit their bottom line. British Petroleum, one of the world’s largest energy corporations, reduced its greenhouse gas emissions to 10% below 1990 levels. Even more remarkable, they did it eight years ahead of schedule and at no net cost. Energy efficiency investments were recouped through savings on energy bills. The federal government can encourage this kind of creative action by giving tax credits to Canadian companies that purchase highly energy efficient machinery.
The federal government could pay for all these smart investments—transitional funds for workers, incentives for sustainable businesses, investments in transit, etc.—out of the income raised by auctioning off tradable emission permits that would be used in a domestic emissions trading program. In other words, a Just Transition strategy could be entirely revenue neutral.
Let us not forget that doing nothing about climate change also carries costs, in the form of increased air pollution and other public health impacts; destruction of natural resources and ecosystems that our economy—not to mention our survival—depends upon; and more extreme weather events such as hurricanes, floods, droughts, and storms.

It is clear that climate change can be addressed, and so can the unintended consequences of changing and restructuring the Canadian economy. Environment Minister David Anderson has publicly supported a transition strategy for displaced Canadian workers. Poll after poll has shown that the vast majority of Canadians believe that Canada must act upon the commitments it made to adopt and implement the Kyoto Protocol.

All that remains is for the Prime Minister and his government to exercise the necessary leadership and implement the solutions already at hand.

Dale Marshall is a researcher with the BC office of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives and author of the report, Making Kyoto Work: A Transition Strategy for Canadian Energy Workers, available at www.policyalternatives.ca.



I say give Harper more time to develop a real plan that is realistic and attainable

Harper is not interested in developing a real plan. Never was and never will. He is backed by the oil and gas industry...how can we possibly trust him? Anyway, he made it clear in the past that he would do all that he can to fight Kyoto.

Give him more time? He had time and made a mockery out of it and even worse, out of us. I want him out!
 gerrymac
Joined: 4/28/2005
Msg: 20
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Posted: 2/10/2007 6:49:06 AM

that is NOT enough time to develop a viable, realistic plan for the environment


And yet he had time to develop one for Afghanistan, oil companies, taxation, day care.....

Ah, sorry, just noticed your "realistic" qualifier....I guess you're right....he hasn't developed "realistic" policies in THOSE areas either. My bad.

In fact, the CPC has spent almost no policy effort on the environment in that time, particularly relative to most other things they've spent time on.

So, pretty weak excuse, pretty weak excuse.

And, geeez, they're the government....can't they HIRE people to develop background, policy direction, etc? Does it ALL have to be done by Steve?

[actually, apparently it is....no wonder it's not developed yet]

For the rest of you here, calling the issue "Climate Change" instead of "Global Warming" is a direct lift from a Republican "talking points" manual designed (literally, using research) to diffuse public concern about the issue. Harper consistently uses almost all of the talking points from that Republican document (identified as such by me because that American poltiical party commissioned it and then used it as a way of deflecting public concern about Global Warming).
 gentalltheway
Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 21
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Posted: 2/10/2007 4:27:37 PM

he has NOT had time, they've been in power for a year

Well, it was more than enough time for him to scrap the Kyoto accord wasn't it? How about his clean air act? Didn't he did that one on his own? Now that was a real farce! So now we have to give him MORE time so that he can try a little harder, right? Enough is enough already! Harper has no class whatsoever! Furthermore, he sold us out to the Americans with the softwood deal not mention about his support to Israel last summer which was a HUGE mistake! He allowed and supported a terrorist state (in my opinion) to attack a country where an estimated 50,000 Canadians lived! That is simply unforgivable!


the idea of buying and selling credits is testament that it is a socialist scheme to transfer wealth from rich countries to poor countries

I truly don’t see where the problem is! This is an accord that needs to be taken seriously and having the possibility to buy and sell credits is an incentive to make it work. You do reduce your emissions, you have more credits while if you don't, you are penalized by having buying some until you get your act together. What's wrong with that? If you agree to have credit cards, you have to work within the rules therefore if you don’t pay in time, you will be penalized with interest fees, right? What would be the point of having an accord where you can pretty much do whatever you want except working within that accord? Sounds kinda dumb to me.


who do you want in?

That's an easy question but the problem is to find the right answer. I couldn't care less if it was Liberals, Tories or any other one as long as they have there shit together. One thing that is primordial is to NOT kiss American butt every time you have an occasion to do so like Harper does with Bush. Chrétien was caught in the scandal that had for effect for them to lose the past elections but at least he put his foot down when it needed to be done just as Martin did in regards to the US. That I respect! And let's be honest here by saying that most governments (Provincial and Federal) did some dishonest crap in the past. The Liberals just paid for everyone else.
 intheswim
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 22
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Posted: 2/15/2007 7:11:34 AM

Kyoto passes in Ottawa, it is now law! The liberals, NDP & PQ raped the
conservatives in the house....this is incredible. BUT, get this, Harper say's he will break
the law. Constitutional experts say he does not have the power to
pick and choose which laws he will follow...in other words, he can not
behave like the dude south of the border no matter how much he
wants to.



A nice end run by the opposition parties. Idiotic but nice. Typical Liberal bs, sell the sizzle and draw all attention away from the fact that there is no steak!

Kyoto will not reduce co2 emissions. It will simply hobble the developed countries and give carte blanche and a subsidy to the developing world to increase their emissions. Nice. Brilliant even....drives me nuts when sheep spouting slogans replaces serious thought. However, the liberals, and their fellow travellers, will say and do anything, to get elected, and then do...well usually, not too much of anything except confiscate our earnings, mortgage our future, and that of our children, on feel-good programs that don't accomplish much except to get them re-elected. It's all about income re-distribution. Far too many in this country have a sense of entitlement to the fruits of the labour of others. We get taxed almost out of existence, and for what? Throwing it all away on schemes to make the liberal party look good.
Lets see them denounce their pension, which vastly exceeds the actual average earnings of working Canadians. Then I might be inclined to be less cynical.

The liberals and their supporters view themselves as the naturally governing party and nothing else will be tolerated. I have to admit to no great love for Myron Baloney either. I'd simply like to see some responsible government here. I believe, that Harper is going to be our best bet.

The so-called attack ads were simply snippets from the liberal leadership convention. It was the liberals debating fellow liberals. They wrote it all themselves!

No kittens were eaten or otherwise harmed producing this.....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 23
Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/15/2007 9:57:57 PM
I think the Liberals have shot themselves with this bill as well (and they are hypocrites). They did nothing about Kyoto obligations except pay lip service, and now they want to give the Tories a two year deadline to do what they wouldn't do.

I'm not a partisan anything; I don't think the Conservatives have a monopoly on hypocrisy, I just started this thread about a news event that I thought showed Tory hypocrisy and nastiness. I'd happily weigh in on a thread about this bill that's passed and criticize the Liberals, New Democrats and Bloc. But that's not what this thread is about.
 intheswim
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 24
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Posted: 2/17/2007 9:18:44 AM
Mr. Dion replied that the Conservatives were raising false allegations to divert attention from their attempt to skew the process for selecting judges to favour right-wing ideologues.


This as opposed to 30 odd years of the Liberals doing exactly the same thing, only favouring the left? Pot calling the kettle black methinks. The usual liberal double standard.
Nothing wrong with the right trying to correct the situation to restore some balance.



Earlier in the day, another Conservative minister argued that Mr. Dion's stand that the provisions should be allowed to lapse will undermine the confidence of the United States and other allies in Canada's resolve


Only a fool will underestimate the fears and general xenophobia of the americans. They are freaking out in general and this would only add more fuel to that particular fire. Most of them are unaware that the entire population of Canada is little more than the equivalent of some single US states. They are always asking me why Canada does not match the US military in it's commitment. It's the perception that counts here! We absolutely do not want to be seen or, even give the impression that we are being ' soft ' on potential terrorists. Many in the US already are clamoring for the borders to be locked down. As our largest trading partner, we don't need to make that situation any worse than it is already. That said, it does not automatically follow that Canada has to agree with US foreign policy. Only that we are doing our part to protect the security of North America in general. A distinct difference!

Then, I have to try and explain that after all the years of Liberal mismanagement and neglect that the Canadian armed forces are, for the most part, using equipment that's older than the soldiers being asked to use it. Many of them are buying for themselves needed pieces of kit from their own pockets. The conservatives are addressing this and it's about time!

Nothing wrong with having a weapon in your collection, provided it's only used if it becomes absolutely necessary. One of the few bits of Liberal legislation that had some foresight.


But several independent experts in this country and the United States doubt that allowing the provisions to lapse would harm Canadian interests in Washington or with other allied governments.


Unsubstantiated......nice...more sizzle....no steak.



Canadian authorities have never used these preventive-detention and investigative-hearings powers, even in the arrests of 18 men last summer in Southern Ontario in an alleged terrorist bomb plot.

This is strong evidence Canada does not need to keep these provisions on the books to deal effectively with terrorism, Mr. Dion said.


What evidence? Much like a new fire department that hasn't had to use their equipment yet.
By that standard, there's lots of evidence to suggest that it's not needed.
Once again...more sizzle....but where's the beef?



Seems likes he's trying to use a page out of his neocon friends playbook, in the wrong country.

So we are looking at a set of laws that we never even bothered to use ONCE in five years, while also protecting the country well. But if we get rid of those same laws , we are all going to DIE in the next ten minutes.

The politics of fear....


Another attempt to portray Harper as another Bush....fearmongering? Seems the Liberals have the market cornered on that. More sizzle...

It's amusing as can be watching the Lib-left freaking out. Just can't stand it can you?

Lots of Canadians looking for some sense and middle ground. One year of Harper working with a minority government, and he's being castigated for all that he's not done, and, hold him responsible, at the same time, for things that he's inherited from the Liberals themselves.

Liberals...sleight of hand, misdirection, and outright lies.

" We are all going to die in the next ten minutes".....sizzle sizzle sizzle.....
 intheswim
Joined: 1/8/2007
Msg: 25
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Tories Unveil Attack Ads
Posted: 2/17/2007 11:42:02 AM
Lots of partisan rhetoric...Neck deep from every side. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

I don't see a 'saviour' in any of our politicians. Neither do I swallow whole, the pronouncements of any of them. See above...partisan rhetoric.

They all wish to present to us, the masses, their own position as the way, the truth and the light.

Liberals constantly preaching tolerance. Of course, that means tolerating anything of the Liberal party line and no tolerance of positions to the contrary.

Personally, like many other tolerant Canadians, I'm very tired of the Canadian dog being wagged by the Quebec tail.

Tired of being lectured on tolerance by people from a province that has language police.

Demanding official bilingualism from the rest of the country while enforcing unilingualism at home.

I'm willing to wait and see what Stephen Harper does actually do....and, I'm willing to give him an honest opportunity to do it.

The Liberals have had their opportunities...lots of time and a majority with which to do it.

In their own words..." we didn't get it done "

Quebec has a Toronto complex....however, neither is the centre of the Canadian universe.

The louder the Liberals scream and, the more name calling that goes on by them, the more I feel that Harper is on the right course.

I can't speak for the rest of the country but, enough of PM's from Quebec already in general, and Liberals in particular!
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