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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Pro Life or Pro choice?      Home login  
 The Ram
Joined: 6/5/2007
Msg: 1
Pro Life or Pro choice?Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
what is the consensis?
how far do you go when debating this emotional subject?
should women have the last say ?
luckily, it hasnt happened in Australia, but there have been numerous accounts of abortion clinics being bombed elsewhere in the world...
And why is it that some extreme pro life supporters go to such lengths to uphold their beliefs?
there are a small number of pro lifer's that harrass women outside a Belmont abortion clinic...the poor girls that go to this clinic are already under enough emotional stress, without having abuse thrown at them just before they walk in...but thats just one of my views...
Joined: 7/8/2007
Msg: 2
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 7/14/2007 10:18:52 AM
Pro choice! yeah i don't get it either why would you bomb anything if your pro life? it completly contidicts their whole cause? crazy!
Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 3
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 7/14/2007 7:15:02 PM
you have a right to it if you want to accept it. it is no one else's decision to make.
in my opinion, people are becoming way to politically correct, and politicians are the most incorrect of us all.
Joined: 6/12/2007
Msg: 4
view profile
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 7/14/2007 8:04:46 PM
No opinion. Had a massive discussion with my sister, who is now a midwife, about this.
She was demanding I form an opinion. There will never be a winner in a debate on this topic. On the one hand you have women who know they are spend and not able to provide a child with the home it needs. On the other you have a fetus dependant on its mother for protection.

Some animals are able to halt the progress of a pregnancy until the conditions are better suited for the survival on a baby. Others are able to reabsorb a fetus if conditions are poor.
I don't think there is anything sacred about a fetus until it is able to survive on its own, breathing and eating.

That said, it must be heartbreaking for a mother to have to make that choice. Why not give them support no matter what they choose to do. Not ear bashing them to try and force them to to do your bidding.

Opps, I guess that makes me pro choice.
 ~ charli ~
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 5
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 7/15/2007 5:32:08 AM
Pro life. Surely pro lifers don't want to see a child born to a mother that didn't want it in the first place and as a result, resented the child? What about that fact that they may not have the emotional or financial capacity to care for the child sufficiently?
I hope the pro lifers can one day look at what DOCS have to deal with and all the unwanted children out there that are emotionally damaged as a result and realise that pro choice should be respected at all times.
 Goddess of dreams
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 6
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:24:56 AM
Some serious topic here

I am pro abortion close to 100% within the right reasons.

My paternal grand mother died about 64 years ago because she did backyard abortion. If she would have done it the right way her four children would have had their mother in their lives. the youngest was 2 and my grandmother was only 34.

Personally I don't think I could abort a being in me but I am sure people who make such a hard decision need to do it under professional care.
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 7
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:38:25 AM
There was an article that was front page news here this week about a woman who left her three year old daughter behind for hours because she "wouldn't hold her hand". I listened to general consensus in my travels about what a "terrible" mother this woman was and how could she leave her little one. This woman is 25, she had just moved to a new town and had three or four children (depending on whose speculations you are listening to), all under the age of about six.

I say look beyond the box. Perhaps this was the snapping point for this woman, maybe she was not responsible for her actions. Who are we to judge? As a forty year old mother with three young children I know the limits you can reach. I also know that you never know what you will do in a given situation unless you have walked a mile in that person's shoes. With the break down of the family unit in today's society and the grinding isolation and loneliness some people are subjected to is it surprising that more and more of these types of incidents are occurring? Or is it just that media coverage is more extensive these days?

What does this have to do with pro-life? I suppose the point I am trying to make is that we should never judge a person's situation until we have a full understanding of what they are going through.
Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 8
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:49:15 AM
Pro choice.
Altho I dont advocate women using it as a method of contraception.
ie. women who have multiple abortions.
I think if a woman finds herself in the position a second time (for whatever reasons), she should be atleast offered sterilization as a option.
These procedures done correctly in the 21st century are reversible anyways.
Joined: 11/3/2006
Msg: 9
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:51:38 AM
pro choice and i really do hate that big sign the prolifers put up on the highway..........Likes knows what im talking about an eye sore never seen a prochoice one yet
 Goddess of dreams
Joined: 5/12/2007
Msg: 10
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 3:56:58 AM

I say look beyond the box. Perhaps this was the snapping point for this woman, maybe she was not responsible for her actions

^^^^^^^^Absolutely correct.

About 4 months or so a mother here in Melbourne left her new born at a hospital, medias of all kind kept on going on about this mother and even one person offered her a house if she would collect her baby.

One thing that never crossed my mind until a family friend who is a nurse said "" I wonder why the father of the baby wasn't even mentioned and why just the mother it takes two to have that child" So true

In abortion and anything to do with children it's always the mother who is judged and blamed. I wonder if in your town the father of the 3 year old was even mentioned.
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 11
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:16:21 AM
Goddess, no mention of the father whatsoever.
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 12
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:54:23 AM
I dont believe any person other than the woman involved has the right to have a say, whatever the circumstances, womans body, womans life, a baby is not viable until over twenty weeks, and a termination will not be performed after that time unless medically neccessary.

So little is said about the natural abortions and around 40% of pregnancies are aborted in the first 12 weeks naturally. So go petition the designer if you are going to petition or abuse pregnant women or clinics.
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 13
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:03:47 AM
Definitely something very personal where every woman should have the right to choose for herself. The women I have met who have had to make this decision certainly didn't make it lightly. It was pretty harrowing for them & I think the women that use abortion as a means of contraception would be in the minority.
Joined: 7/3/2007
Msg: 14
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:29:28 AM
Pro Life .... all the way

I can not and would not ever judge any woman for choosing to abort their child. This is my story .... I am sharing it freely for no other purpose other than.... I want to put it out there ....

I had an abortion at 17 and never even gave it a second thought .... I did what I had to do at the time.... I didn't see any alternatives nor did I look for one .... My partner left it up to me, either way he promised to support me but didn't participate in the decision making process .... I received no counselling prior to or after the abortion.

For 20 years I believed it didn't affect me and I had done the right thing.... I did what I had to do... Notice how many "I's" and "me's I have used above??? however, 5 years ago while in a counselling session it came up .... at first I stood on solid ground nothing could shake the lie I had cemented over my emotions and the truth of this issue ... I left the counsellors office still hell bent on what I had done was the right thing to do ... The following week "although hesitant " I went back to see her and again we touched on this subject and again I danced around it and glossed it over with all of my well rehearsed justification .... we moved on to another subject and at the end of the session when it was time for me to leave ... I couldn't .... I just sat there.... Then she asked me if I was ok and I just lost it... I cried uncontrollably for an hour and then daily for weeks on end .... at this point I had 6 of my 7 children ... every time I looked at them I felt the pain that I had covered over for so many years .....

To this dayI can identify with that pain and although I know that I did what I believed at the time to be the "ok" thing to do I no longer justify what I did. What I did was selfish and self centered and my partners lack of involvement in the whole decision making process was irresponsible...

Today I have told my older children that I had an abortion and they all know that there will come a time when they will meet him or her. I have told them the story as I have shared it with you ... I asked and they gave their forgiveness to me and my (then) partner their father. Most importantly, I have forgiven myself.

Today when people say that they had an abortion and it didn't or hasn't affected them I don't and wont ever believe them .... I lived and was imprisoned by the lie ... only in truth are we truly set free .... What I find interesting is how I opted to take what I believed to be the easier way out given the choice of adoption ... (makes me sick to the stomach now to even write these words) .... I knew I couldn't adopt my child out... It would of ripped my heart out to give my child away so I killed it instead .... Abortion is selfish, Adoption is selfless.... Given the option and knowing what I do today If I had to make the choice again I would choose to give my baby life and give a gift to the lives of a childless couple.
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 15
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:34:28 AM
Pro - choice ................... and I feel for every woman that has to make that choice.
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 16
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 1:29:15 PM
Today when people say that they had an abortion and it didn't or hasn't affected them I don't and wont ever believe them

Don't forget, everyone is different.

You had an abortion and I am so sorry it has deeply affected you but you are sad at the choice you made only because you don't know how you would have felt having made the other choice? People can feel bad about it but still know they made the right choice. Others don't feel bad because they know they made the right choice.
Having a baby at 17 would have been a massive struggle and what if you had ended up on your own? How would you have supported the baby?
As I said, I am sorry you feel this way, but don't beat yourself up. It's a hard choice to make but you did it for the right reasons at the time.
Joined: 7/3/2007
Msg: 17
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 2:44:58 PM
^^^^ thanks for your sentiments o p ..... Fact is I do know how I would of felt ... 2 years laterI gave birth to my oldest daughter .... I could never of given her up, not even if I had too .... I don't beat myself up over what I did, you are right I did what I believed to be the right thing at the time however, today I realise, all for selfish reasons, I was not given any other choices.... It is done and gone ... If I could change it I know I would, my regrets I will always carry, but the burdon of guilt I once felt now lies on the shoulders of Jesus .... we are talking about a life here not some thing that can or should ever be discarded .... Having a baby at 17 would of been a struggle had I of ended up on my own??? I had family, friends, I chose not to share it with them .... In todays society the sole parent pension would have covered me....

I think the most important thing is, should you or any other person you know be considering abortion it is crucial to seek or encourage counselling before making this choice. It was not something that was offered too me, or even something I believed I needed .... Personally I don't know any one who has had an abortion and not been affected by it, 3 of the 5 I know felt the pain many, many years down the track and the other 2 on the birth of their first child. It doesn't matter who you are, it has to have an affect, whether or not you choose to recognise those affects largely depends on the individual. From the moment of conception that child has bonded with you, it relies wholly and soley on it's mother for survival. The hormone oxytocin is promoted upon conception this produces the natural nurturing, care taking and bonding abilities of a woman ... I do not take away the responsibility of a man on this topic but unless you are a woman you can't truly understand all of the dynamics involved.
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 18
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:04:45 PM
I guess people are affected on different levels, though.
You say that you won't believe people when they say they weren't affected? I know someone that has been through it and now has 2 healthy children and she had counselling and does not regret it one bit and is not sad about it. We all do things for different reasons and I guess it's sad you didn't have counselling but some people truly don't regret it and are not affected by it, as they know they did the right thing, given their situation at the time.
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 19
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 4:54:33 PM
This is why it has to be pro choice. Everyone has a different experience & unique circumstance. How can you generalise such a deeply personal experience? Poss I'm so very sorry you feel you did the wrong thing & that you didn't receive the councelling & support you so obviously needed. As well as knowing adult women who have had to make the choice (each for very different reasons); I also have a very close family member who fell pregnant to an abusive partner when only just 16. Her mother let her know she would be there to help her no matter what she decided. For those of us with her on the day it was the longest & saddest day of our lives, but in the end it was her choice. As she said to me, "How can I look after a baby properly? I'm just a kid, I can't even look after myself". Having seen the toxic nature of the entire family of the "man" she was involved with; every option had dire concequences.
At this point she's still young & although she wishes the contraceptives had worked better & that she never had to make the decision in the first place, she has also used the whole sad experience of that relationship & what happened as a massive learning curve. Her life now is back on track & she has found a wonderful, loving partner to share it with.
I've miscarried & that was painful enough; I can't imagine having to make the choice. The thoughts of what if are natural I think Poss. You did the best you could with what you knew at that time. You have obviously found solace & redemption in your beliefs. If Jesus was with you right now, do you think he would condemn you; after all his teachings of love & forgiveness? We tend to be our own harshest critics. You were still really only a child yourself, with none of the vast life knowledge & experience you have now to help you.
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 20
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 5:41:01 PM
I am sure that all women that have been in this situation, or may be facing it, will find your words very comforting Jannick.

Joined: 7/3/2007
Msg: 21
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 6:59:51 PM
^^^^You have obviously found solace & redemption in your beliefs. If Jesus was with you right now, do you think he would condemn you; ^^^

Absolutely not .... He doesn't condemn me .... in all things through His grace I recieve His forgiveness and love ... I am not condeming me .... I am being responsible for the choice I made .... I am sharing my story ... for every choice whether right or wrong their are consequences ... of course I have regrets but I have forgiven myself for my mistake because yes...You are right, I didn't know any better .... and for a long, long time I didn't believe that it had any affect over me, what so ever and I would have gladly argued that point with any one .... Today I have mourned and accepted the death of my child, the murder that I said YES to....
Thanks for the Sierra
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 22
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/13/2007 8:32:31 PM
[I am being responsible for the choice I made..... for every choice whether right or wrong there are consequences]
I agree with you totally Poss & I'm glad you are finding ways to grieve & accept. If only we could live in a perfect world where the sorrows of the world didn't exist. Life just isn't that simple at this point & we all just have to do the best we can & be willing to support those around us as they try to do the same
 Sierra Leonne
Joined: 9/10/2007
Msg: 23
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 3:17:57 AM
That's all any of us can do jannick, be true to yourself & be honest with others about how you feel. I guess it just came across a little harshly on such a painful issue. It sounds like you too have had difficult choices to make & have come through them a stronger woman.
Joined: 9/17/2007
Msg: 24
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 3:21:43 AM

that is how I feel for myself you are free to make your own decisions about your life

That's fine, I didnt say your opinion was wrong, but didn't you see Poss' posts about what a hard time she has had dealing with what happened and the choice she made?
I think your wording could have been a little bit more subtle, that's all.
It's a very touchy subject.
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 25
Pro Life or Pro choice?
Posted: 10/14/2007 6:48:02 PM
Pro choice... there are too many different situations out there to judge what is right and wrong
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