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Joined: 4/7/2007
Msg: 11
Capital PunishmentPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I read each post/opinion and am un wavered in my support of Capitol punishment. Although it may not be the deterrent it once was, it certainly assures the fact that the executed criminal will never violate the law again. Notice I used 'criminal' instead of person because once an atrocious crime is committed I feel that person has lost 'person' status.

It's my belief that we're all part of nature's big plan and that is survival of the fittest. Weak, old or sick animals are always the first to go, we're no different. Yes, we have developed into a so called 'society' with rules for surviving within that society. The fact remains that illnesses exist that have but one cure. That one cure is to eliminate them from society.

You want to place them in an escape proof institution for life? I'm fine with that, as long as the funding is 100% private. That way we all win. Anti death penalty advocates get to ease their conscience, and pocketbooks, by knowing their charges are given "the years and years to actually, truly and completely regret what they did." We, those on the other side, get to live in a safer society with a bit more disposable income.
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 13
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/28/2007 9:35:51 AM

Not just swiftly execute them and not give them the years and years to actually, truly and completely regret what they did.

I'm not sure where you live that they execute swiftly, but I have yet to see the death penalty carried out in a timely fashion. Even in Texas, when a convicted murder has three or more witnesses to the crime, they get moved to the head of the line to be executed, its still years in the process. A murder does not walk out of the court room and into the execution room. There is the appeals process, court dates that take months and years to happen, then the execution could be scheduled years after that. It actually cost tax payers more to go through the process to execute a prisoner than to give them life in prison. I think the process gives them plenty of time to regret their actions, but I am incline to believe if they are capable of cold blooded murder, there is a slim chance they have the moral fortitude to be repentant.

As for being for or against, I am for. I was born and raised in Texas and we believe if you come to our state and kill somebody, we will kill you back. If there are three or more witnesses to the crime, we will move you to the head of the line. No justice system is perfect, but we try our best to be fair. I think if a person looses a family member to cold blooded murder then they should rest easy that the killer will not have the opportunity to put another person though what they are going through.
Joined: 11/9/2006
Msg: 14
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/28/2007 11:13:36 AM

"I'm a believer in capital punishment, but only in cases where there was absolutely no doubt the accused is guilty."

Unfortunately there is no such thing as "absolutely no doubt the accused is guilty".
Our conception of justice is based on the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is (obviously) not the same thing "absolutely no doubt".

I think the important part to remember is that everyone makes mistakes (witness may forget details, prosecutors may withhold evidence, juries may be biased... etc). Courts make mistakes: Which means some innocent people will be wrongfully-convicted, and some guilty people will be wrongfully-acquitted.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 21
view profile
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/28/2007 2:08:55 PM
I am all for capitol punishment. In fact I dont think its tough enough. Rapists and child molestors show be put on death row!!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: 11/9/2006
Msg: 25
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/28/2007 4:54:59 PM
For my fellow Canadians, I think this might help clear up the issue of the Death Penalty and why it was abolished from Canada:

"In 1976, capital punishment was removed from Canada's Criminal Code. After years of debate, Parliament decided that capital punishment was not an appropriate penalty. The reasons for this decision were due to the possibility of wrongful convictions, concerns about the state taking the lives of individuals, and uncertainty as to the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent.
# In Canada, the abolition of the death penalty is considered to be a principle of fundamental justice. Canada has played a key role in denouncing the use of capital punishment at the international level.
# The Supreme Court of Canada has held that prior to extraditing an individual for a capital crime, Canada must seek assurances, save in exceptional circumstances from the requesting state that the death penalty will not be applied."

(Official statement on Capital Punishment by: The Department of Justice Canada,

Not only is the Death Penalty illegal in Canada, we can't even extradite capital crime offenders to nations with the Death Penalty!
Joined: 11/8/2005
Msg: 28
view profile
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/28/2007 8:44:15 PM
I am completely against capital punishment. Nearly every industrialized nation has abolished capital punishment. Even Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Msg: 30
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 8:42:07 AM
First, I am not the most politically correct person in this world, though I really try to respect and embrace and understand other subcultures in our USA. I have been described as a conundrum, but I have seen and experienced a lot of devastation in my years.
The reasons for criminal punishment are supposed to be punitive and as a deterrent. This is in a lot of ways a farce: A man collects bribes, but because he is in a position of public trust, he gets ten years in prison. A thug commits a felonious assault on a police officer, and he may get two years, run consecutively with all of his other many offenses for which he (or she) is on trial, when the police were trying to take a legitimate threat to members of Society off the street.
One of the things that bothers me about this is that the violence of the two crimes are disparate, and on the streets, property crimes are minimalized over threats to human life and welfare. However, if the ploice do not arrive in court in a body cast, the resistance to arrest and trying to run over an officer with a car, to shoot them, or whatever seems to be minimalized. Now do not get me wrong. There are plenty of police officers of whom I disapprove, and just like many other jobs, there are people that just show up for a paycheck. I cannot comment any more on that right now, except that to say that I am sorry for everyone that has encountered a lame officer when they needed legitimate help, but there are very many sincere, dedicated officers out there, and those are the ones with whom I hope you encounter!
That being said, I will bring my perspective back to my opinions on Capital Punishment. First, I take offense to the fact that the taxpayers house them and feed them, while they have cable television and recreation, for years and years and years, while the System pays for their appeals and their legal fees. Secondly, the reason lethal injection doesn't always work effectively isn't because the "cocktail" isn't effective, but because the veins of the recipient are shot from years of intravenous drug abuse. Next, an IV drug addict will beg, borrow, or steal (or worse) if they need money to fuel their next fix. Additionally, DNA testing is advanced enough that in most cases that it should be used punctually to vindicate or convict (excluding a clever defense attorney suppression hearing) the culprit of the crime. Nevertheless, when you look at a person that has a criminal record longer than Santa's Gift List, how many crimes with which did they also skate, that led them to be a prime suspect in the crime at hand (pun intended)? I was virtually crucified on this or another web forum for suggesting that the career criminals should finally be able to do some good with their lives by being used for experimental drug testing, because lab rats (that never actually wronged Society, but are still just rodents) can only go so far, and to determine effectiveness on humans, there need to be human subjects. This would be a true way to pay one's debt to Society.
Were the Victims treated "humanely" when they were brutally raped, bludgeoned to death, and/or however killed by a person with steel eyes and no remorse? Did they get any discussion in their means of death? I do support the Death Penalty, but not the twenty years of appeals for which the taxpayers foot the bill!
Of course the lawyers want to keep this system. I remember a case of an admitted murderer that said he wanted and deserved the death sentence, but his lawyer kept the case going, saying that his client should not be executed, to keep the lawyer's paychecks from the taxpayers coming. While the only way to wind up on Death Row is Capital Murder, once again, the criminals are bestowed with more rights than the Victims and their families that seek vindication! If lethal injection is inhumane, because if someone has ravaged their own body to where the veins no longer work (no one forced him/her to become a junkie), then let's go back to the firing squad assuming that they will not miss!
Of course, I have some issues with that, too. But then again, many of us know people that kill for pleasure, and they are known as hunters, and most of them I know eat or donate the meat. Let those people man the firing squad that puts down these human ANIMALS! For some people, there is simply no rehabilitation. Isn't that what Society does with ANIMALS that are not fit for Society? It disgusts me every time I see do-gooders protesting over an execution, but they have no idea what these people are really capable of. I hope for their sakes, if they are successful in setting them free, that they are not their next victims of savage brutality!
[I overheard a criminal defense attorney bragging to another defense attorney about the light sentence he got for his client, and I could not help but hope that his family would be this criminal's next victim, because of his smugness and demeanor. It is a given that there will be a "next" Victim!]
Finally, there are studies are the racial differential in the administration of Capital Punishment. Some try to say that the Whites have more money, so they get better lawyers. Others say that Black on Black crime is minimalized. I wonder if swift and effiecient justice would benefit ALL taxpayers (at the expense of the lawyers that want to keep cases going through appeals)? Sadly, when people are playing the high risk games of Life and suffer the consequences, and then the culprit is apprehended, Society is better off for getting two off the streets for the price of one (taxpayer/lawyer representation speaking). Why are the KILLERS on Death Row entitled to so many more rights than their Victims? Give these families some vindication already! Have some Band Aids for your bleeding hearts! These people are not only NOT angels, but they are dangers to the public safety!

I think Capital Punishment should be expanded, but more importantly, more swifter in execution (pun intended) because the taxpayers should not have to pay. These people are criminals! They took other lives! DNA testing would be far less expensive than twenty years of housing, lawyer fees and appeals.
My opinion may not be popular, and I am sorry if you are reading and have a loved one on Death Row. I ran out of symathy a long time ago.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 31
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 8:59:12 AM

My opinion may not be popular

...mine either...but then..I agree with there may be some tiny glimmer of hope.

Funny thing...these Fifi laws for the criminals...Should anyone take it upon themselves to "knock" one off for the good of society...most likely would be out in 5-10 years.

SO: Sell all your assets and put it into longterm positions in the names of people you trust.
Sit back 5-10 years on the taxpayers free board and rent in a prison cell and study law, or whatever cranks your fancy{ get a degree or two without stressing about paying bills}....get out of jail free as an unsung hero to society with a nice chunk of loot to start over.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 34
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 9:56:50 AM
^^^good points.
Joined: 10/12/2006
Msg: 36
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 2:29:27 PM
Against it.

"Scientific studies have consistently failed to find convincing evidence that the death penalty deters crime more effectively than other punishments. The most recent survey of research findings on the relation between the death penalty and homicide rates, conducted for the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002, concluded: ". . .it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

(Reference: Roger Hood, The Death Penalty: A World-wide Perspective, Oxford, Clarendon Press, third edition, 2002, p. 230)

DNA is not always evident and not always conclusive when it is evident.

The company you keep: Death Penalty Permitted
· Afghanistan· Antigua and Barbuda· Bahamas· Bahrain· Bangladesh· Barbados· Belarus· Belize· Botswana· Burundi· Cameroon· Chad· China (People's Republic)· Comoros· Congo (Democratic Republic)· Cuba· Dominica· Egypt· Equatorial Guinea· Eritrea· Ethiopia· Gabon· Ghana· Guatemala· Guinea· Guyana· India· Indonesia· Iran· Iraq· Jamaica· Japan· Jordan· Kazakhstan· Korea, North· Korea, South· Kuwait · Kyrgyzstan· Laos· Lebanon· Lesotho· Libya· Malawi· Malaysia· Mongolia· Nigeria· Oman· Pakistan· Palestinian Authority· Qatar· Rwanda· St. Kitts and Nevis· St. Lucia· St. Vincent and the Grenadines· Saudi Arabia· Sierra Leone· Singapore· Somalia· Sudan· Swaziland· Syria· Taiwan· Tajikistan· Tanzania· Thailand· Trinidad and Tobago· Uganda· United Arab Emirates· United States· Uzbekistan· Vietnam· Yemen· Zambia· Zimbabwe

Of these countries USA and Iran execute more child offenders (-18) then all other countries combined. Edit:,12271,1428377,00.html
Julian Borger in Washington
Wednesday March 2, 2005
The Guardian
The US bowed to international and domestic pressure yesterday, becoming the last country in the world officially to abolish the death penalty for offenders who were under 18 when they committed murder.

In 2006 murder made up 12% of all violent offenses, that still leaves 88% of the prison population.(USA)

I agree with the posters who suggested violent offenders work while incarcerated, or the gladiator idea if they don't wish too, or apply as human guinea pigs. I don't agree with the present system of coddling the criminal either. Life in prison and work to pay for being allowed to stay alive and also to pay society and the victims back for their financial losses.
In this day of identity theft shouldn't we be much more careful whom we put to death.
I wonder how many of you who want the death penalty would like it if it was your innocent family member who got lethal injection, because they failed to prove their innocence in time.

Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 37
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:20:25 PM
Killing is killing, whether it is capitol punishment, abortion or war. I believe that most inmates can be rehabilitated. Some don't have the mental capability and should be kept separate from society but most can choose to change.
I, too have worked in prison - mostly with drug dealers and prostitutes but some have taken a life and lived to regret it. I think living with that knowledge would be an extremely heavy burden, especially if the victim is part of your community like a spouse or family member.
I think forgiveness is a better way. Addictions are the biggest part of the problem and most crimes are committed under the influence or to cater to addictions.
Addicts can't be trusted because they value their drug of choice more than anything. Without alcohol there would be less violence. Without cocaine there would be less robberies.
Sometimes I like the inmates better than the staff but all are people equal in the eyes of the unconditionally loving God I worship.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 40
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 8:24:08 PM

The theory of deterrence is based on the idea that the threat of punishment must be severe enough to counter the benefits or pleasures that the criminal would receive from the crime. In addition, the punishment must be administered swiftly so that potential criminals will see a clear causeand- effect relationship between the crime and the punishment. When punishment deters potential criminals from committing crimes, it is called “general deterrence.” Another kind of deterrence, “specific deterrence,” refers to the inability of convicted criminals to commit further crimes as a result of their punishment. There is no doubt that capital punishment serves as a specific deterrent: The executed criminal will never kill again. However, experts and others have long debated whether capital punishment is a more effective general deterrent than life in prison.

Specifically the deterrence effect is 100%.

". . .it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

In some cases...prudence be damned.
"Generally" speaking, as it is 100% specifically effective, it far supercedes the Right to Live Safely of the general populace, in the event that the criminal were to wander the streets again.

Child murderers / rapists/ the Dahmers of the world...why should society be forced to pay $100000.00's for their "safe" upkeep ? Rather see that money going to the families of the victims.
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 41
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/29/2007 9:35:55 PM
No amount of money can restore life after murder or innocence after rape. Revenge does not make a person feel better. We delude ourselves in thinking that it will. No punishment is enough to take away the pain. Only forgiveness can relieve it.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 42
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/30/2007 12:04:27 AM
^^ Of course, never suggested otherwise.
However, why let a criminal have a second crack at his personal expressions of angst at the expense of the rest of society?

Specific deterrence works 100% of the time.
Joined: 10/12/2006
Msg: 43
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/30/2007 6:55:56 AM

Specific deterrence works 100% of the time.

Unfortunately, there is no returning a life if we inadvertently punish an innocent.
In extreme cases like Dahmer and his ilk I agree that we should execute. However, being a fallible race with many corrupt people in and out of the justice system, we have yet to find a way to prove with 100% surety that we are indeed executing the right person after the first crime is committed. Except on rare occasion where such crimes are recorded or witnessed by many.
In the meantime perhaps a change in the way we treat criminals who are incarcerated would be a step in the right direction. Those that have (beyond a reasonable doubt) committed atrocities against others should be made to work the most heinous jobs we have and no inmate nor company should profit from that work. All monies earned could then be divided between the victims and the justice system to offset the costs incurred. I would also like to see those we call dangerous offenders (the three strikes), executed rather then simply locked away from the general population, as we know those particular people are incurable.

We must IMO always be careful to rise above our outrage and not become the very thing we wish to eradicate.

 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 45
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/30/2007 9:00:12 AM

In extreme cases like Dahmer and his ilk I agree that we should execute.
..Except on rare occasion where such crimes are recorded or witnessed by many.
...I would also like to see those we call dangerous offenders (the three strikes), executed rather then simply locked away from the general population, as we know those particular people are incurable.

Cases with incontrovertible proof.

We must IMO always be careful to rise above our outrage and not become the very thing we wish to eradicate.

Agree in principle.
In truth...the dark side of my nature would wish they suffer the same as their victim....before granting them eternal "peace."
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 46
Capital Punishment
Posted: 10/30/2007 4:39:31 PM
I have to agree...scientific study has PROVEN that the death penalty works. Not one person who had it carried out ever committed another crime. Absolute proof positive that it works.

I figure that those who are "without a doubt guilty", like Ing, Bernardo, Olson should be executed. In public. Those who "accidentally" shot a bystander in a driveby shooting need the same treatment. Their own attitude towards human life requires society to make sure they never, ever harm another human being ever.

Lesser crimes could be punished by public humiliation. This works in some countries. Being "caned" seems a bit extreme, even to me, but, when the general populance is asked, their greatest fear (which stops them from committing a criminal act) is fear of public humiliation at being caned. Nobody wants that to happen. Few re-offend after that kind of thing. There was a case where an American kid got caught stealing cars...and the president of the USA even went to bat for him to get this kid out of caning. The family moves back to the states...and within days the kid steals another car...basically thumbing his nose at the authorities, the President and his own family. That kid needed to be publically humiliated...but managed to turn the tables. Sick pup.

We could clear up a lot of prison space by this method. Instead of allowing prisoners to intermingle, they could be kept in solitary. This way they don't come out "better criminals" such as they do now. They could be encouraged to get their diplomas...perhaps even forced to in a way...their sentance isn't up until they DO get it.

Killing off the murderers could work. Or...they could be dumped on an island and left there. Let them fend for themselves, and have the Navy patrol the area to keep out anyone, and keep them there. Or even dump them in a box canyon in the mountains and allow the army to keep tabs on them there. No other fences (except for the entrance gate one) alarms....they had disreguard of human life...then society can disregard theirs...but leave it to them to survive on their own.

Or...leave them in solitary....with a rope. No books. The only thing they get to read is court transcripts from their trial. Fed 3 times a day. They could have an exit out to a "dogrun" outside. Separate from everyone else, and only open for an hour a day. Any trouble with them going back in...they get stunned and dragged in.

As it is....some prisons are factories and shops. Many companies have their mail-order program set up through prisons, with the prisoners taking the orders, etc. Feel comfy with that? I know I don't. but, they have something to do.
Joined: 11/9/2006
Msg: 49
Capital Punishment
Posted: 11/3/2007 11:04:17 PM
I think what the OP is trying to describe is the "Paradox of the Death Penalty".
I'll try to describe it, as best I can, please bear with me if there are a few mistake (I'm going from memory here):
IF (Premise 1) Murder is a capital crime, punishable by execution THEN
it logically follows that an accused will be tried by the state in a court of law.
IF (Premise 2) Courts make mistakes THEN
it logically follows that at some point in time a mistake will be made and an innocent person will be wrongfully convicted and executed.
IF (Premise 3) The state acts on our behalf THEN
it logically follows that when an innocent person is killed: We, the people, share the guilt of killing an innocent person.
IF (Premise 4) The killing of an innocent person is murder THEN
it logically follows that we, the people, are guilty of murder which carries the penalty of death.
 Mr. Raitano
Joined: 10/23/2007
Msg: 50
Capital Punishment
Posted: 11/3/2007 11:26:56 PM
One of the problems I see with it is that it isn't used the way justice was meant to be dealt out...swift and severe.

An average of 18 years on death row before you exhaust all of your appeals.

In China you can be tried, sentenced and executed all in the same day.

Executions should be carried out in full public, and no more needle.

Hanging, firing squad, ax-man/guillotine, hell I would even be ok with burning at the stake for the really bad ones like child molesters, rapists, and so on.

The punishment for the crime should be so vile you never want to commit the crime. And just to show other what will happen to them if they do.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Msg: 52
Capital Punishment
Posted: 4/21/2009 11:46:03 PM
Keeping someone alive with a life sentence while subsidizing their legal fees is an unnecessary expense ro the taxpayers. A dog that is designated as viscious is automatically "put down" and a two-legged animal should be no exception to that standard. Further, if humans are supposed to be capable of rational thinking then they should be that much more sentenced to death.
Their Victims did not have the luxury of humane treatment, did they?

Why do they have a physician examine a person on death row to make sure that they are heathy enough to die, anyway?
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 53
view profile
Capital Punishment
Posted: 4/22/2009 1:43:27 PM
Murder is the intentional illegal killing of another person. You're idea to let the person live with their guilt is seriously flawed. Alot of them don't have any guilt and would kill again if given the chance. The murders family has to do without them if they live or not. Either (s)he's in prison or dead. Also executions don't happen that quickly. It normally takes several years before it actually happens. I think that if you had any first hand experience with criminals you would change your mind.
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 55
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 12:38:23 AM
i disagree with every form of execution bar lethal injection with anaesthesia.
we don't make a habit of hanging, shooting, stoning or beheading animals when putting them down. even if a dog has attacked a child, it's still put down humanely.
humans can commit the most grotesque crimes and it's not that they ''deserve'' to die with dignity but they are entitled to it(?) cruel and unusual punishments especially carried out publicly as a deterrance (islamic countries) ignores that the perpetrator has a family that also suffers, doubly so, casualties of the crime and the punishment. barbaric punishments, imo, denotes us as barbarians.
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 56
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 1:14:10 AM
quotes are from the following thread: (msg 49)

I find them to be fairly well outlined in the constitution, a basic set of laws that appropriately points out that the death penalty CAN and SHOULd be used in some cases.

not disputing the rationale of the death penalty. do note though, ''appropriately'' is your opinion only, it's not a unanimous view.

Define "human rights"
it does say not to use cruel punicshment, but doesn't define cruelty.

common sense tells you that. referral to the constitution not required.
in the past, executions were limited to the methods they had available at the time.
you rationalize using shifting beliefs. it's still cruel.
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 57
view profile
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 1:41:33 AM
I have zero faith in the courts or the prosecutors in this country so I would like it to be eliminated. They have on many occasions put people in prison for crimes they did not commit so how can I trust them when a persons life is at stake.
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 60
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/2/2010 11:05:10 PM
IF you are going to have capital punishment, get on with it. 6 months on death row, and then done. Not 25 years on death row; that is not a deterent. And it certainly aint cost effective.
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