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 Leigh AKA PL
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 2
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Black-only schoolsPage 1 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)

The Toronto District School Board (TDSB) is considering the idea of operating a "black-focus" school to serve the needs of their non-white students.

There have been many heated debates about this issue stating the pros and cons of such an arrangement.

Are these "focus" schools popular in other areas?
Has anyone ever attended one of these schools?

Is there a need for this type of school?


omg... are you serious??? I don't know Toronto laws... but if the UK suggested such a thing... omg... I can't imagine the outcry it would cause.... Can you imagine if we suggested ONLY WHITE PEOPLE IN OUR SCHOOL???? this is crazy
 Leigh AKA PL
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 8
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Black-only schools
Posted: 11/29/2007 2:57:39 PM

There are French schools, Catholic schools, Aboriginal schools, Christian schools, military schools, all girls/boys schools, art schools, boarding schools, schools for the gifted and schools for the challenged.


ya know what annoys me.... in England.... now a day's... children don't know much about christianaty as they (by law) have to learn about every other religious forms..... they seem to know about all that apart from our own belief...BECAUSE OF ENGLISH LAW.... it is not right..... my daughter will be 6 in two weeks... she has yet to learn about jesus as she has been learning about other religions... I am sorry... but this is not on.... I am from Wales... moved to England two weeks before the millenium..... my son was in Welsh language school... having to learn English for 7 hours a week... now it is all welsh schools are English with (if by choice) 7 hours of welsh.... ffs... how dare they interfer with our language.... it is gettting ridiculas now a days and way beyond belief and rights.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 lizardlegs
Joined: 11/26/2007
Msg: 19
Black-only schools
Posted: 11/30/2007 2:40:25 PM
This is a great idea. Its about time white and blacks were separated in schools. Whites have suffered far too long from forced integration.
 ok72076
Joined: 4/8/2006
Msg: 54
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/2/2008 8:14:23 PM
In Central Arkansas, Jacksonville has separate Boys and Girls Middle Schools, although they are basically on the same extra large campus.

The boys and girls mix before school and in a few electives. But all the core subjects are all in single sex classes.

As for separate by race, 15 years ago a lovely Sister, then in her late middle-ages, said something very profound about kids acting up in schools. She said that when black and white teachers were teaching in separate race schools, the black teachers didn't put up with any gruff and messes from the kids, spanking them with a thick paddle and other punishments without having to worry about offending no liberal whites . And the kids knew when they got home, they would be disciplined by their parents.

Now, you have so many young inmature parents who think their kids can do now wrong in school!

In San Antonio and other Texas cities, you have a lot of schools that are 90 to 100 percent Hispanic in various area. Don't know if you can call that a focus or not.

In Central Arkansas, to get whites into the majority black schools, they have a lot of MAGNET schools with special emphasis and focus on certain areas, depending upon the School. The teachers are suppose to tie in and give special emphasis to what ever the Magnet school advertises. The magnets start at elementary level and go up to high school, with more optional electives in theme area than in a regular school. North Pulaski High School runs its own restaurant with students cooking and serving meals.
 AncientCelt
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 55
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/3/2008 9:31:24 PM
Kind of amazes me that a race of people that have been championing for equal rights and have gotten them, to champion for a black only school is a step back, I see lady posted in an earlier thread about teaching more black kids about the black contribution to society, and I agree there has been alot, but what about the Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the German, and so on. All these folks have contributed to society as much as the black. Give you a lil info about a school that opened here in Philly 3 years ago. It was built by Bill Gates and is called the School Of The Future, every child enrolled gets a Lap Top, and a desk top for home, they have no books, everything is done via computer, but in order to get in this school, guess what you have to be black, and this school is also aided by tax payer money, so tell me is that fair ?
 Javan2
Joined: 7/9/2005
Msg: 57
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/4/2008 2:57:54 AM
AncientCelt Says: Bill Gates and is called the School Of The Future, every child enrolled gets a Lap Top, and a desk top for home, they have no books, everything is done via computer, but in order to get in this school, guess what you have to be black, and this school is also aided by tax payer money, so tell me is that fair ?

Others who are reading this; AncientCelt is misrepresenting the truth. The real truth here is that this school is located in the black community and whites are welcome, it's just that whites don't want to go into the black community to get to these schools, it's not that they are kept out, it's that they don't want to go into these communities to get to the schools.
 curtis0986
Joined: 1/30/2007
Msg: 58
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/4/2008 4:14:46 AM
I dont know where most of you people been in the past 20 years but there are schools all across the U.S. they are called afro-centric,and no you just cant send your child there they are put into a lottery and selected and they are not just for blacks.
 Javan2
Joined: 7/9/2005
Msg: 59
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/4/2008 5:01:58 PM
trubblemakr, yeah, ok; See how rightous you canadians become when your members of different races choose to date and marry. See, how high & mighty you canadians become then.
 downtown_massive
Joined: 12/31/2007
Msg: 61
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/4/2008 7:33:07 PM
"i believe the objective is to educate children in their own culture...how is that bad?"

....the thing is, I think that non-black students that are having difficulties with school will be able to enter this school....and so i believe this statement is NOT racist in that sense IF only BLACK students were only able to enter this school.

But what most people aren't talking about is that this problem WAS solved awhile back I did a paper on this and used a crapload of research to back up my argument:

The solution to the problem of disadvantaged children dropping out at higher rates than the provincial average has already been solved. The solution of course, was not racial, religious or cultural segregation. The solution was to address the root causes - poor role models, lack of parent time and skills to provide support etc. The program was successfully implemented in Regent Park and resulted in the dropout rate going from over 50% to 10%. The provicial average is 25%.

The program involved the community, public and private sector resources to provide mentoring and support to the students, 80% of whom went on to some form of post-secondary education. A few weeks after the report of the success of the program appeared in the Globe, another report stated that the Ministry of Education would not confirm that funding would continue, due to other, higher priorities. That of course prompts the question, what could be a higher priority?

_____________

...I think this issue is a great debate topic...because this will be setting a precedent for the downfall of public education.....too bad the idea of this kind of school is a BAD idea.

Lumping all "blacks" into one category is racist unto itself.

let's keep it going.
 downtown_massive
Joined: 12/31/2007
Msg: 62
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/4/2008 7:58:12 PM
...oh yes, it's also funny how the media / school boards / ministry of education are not putting any ONUS on the responsibilities of parents anymore...since when was it the responsibility of the school to teach children the BASIC difference between right and wrong...and to instill BASIC good morals...?

...when did it become ok, that teachers of the same colour as their students is the ONLY way of having these students succeed?

Man , i hope that a whole bunch of "white" teachers get hired at this new school...and we'll see the fireworks....I wanna see the racist black parents will say, "only black teachers can teach about black history".....and then it'll become a a circus in the media about the school board's hiring practises being RACIST....I wonder if any white teacher would be able to sue.?? And I also wonder how many black teachers in the next year hired on to fill these new positions, since there's plenty of factual evidence that there aren't many black teachers teaching at a high school level in the last 10 years at the TDSB anyways???

A "black" - focused school isn't going to help "black" students feel better about themselves or curb whatever disadvantages that they may have...the Public schools already have had special programs in place for ALL students that are disadvantaged....

And can anyone tell me the last time that English, Math, Science, Physics, Music could be primarily taught in an Afro Centric way?

Get Real. I'm a visible minority and this type of judgement makes me sick and makes us look bad as a city as well as a country who's motto is : multiculturalism.

But you know what? I guess I shouldn't pass judgment on the future effects that this will have in Toronto. Let's give the black students this opportunity and see how they do....who knows, maybe this new school will surprise us.
 Lario
Joined: 5/2/2005
Msg: 64
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/5/2008 3:10:29 AM
This is an absolutely ridiculous idea. and speaks to the victimization syndrome... These kids are victims because the school system is not serving their needs ?!?!?!.. Horsecrap.

Schools should teach the 3 r's first... Reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic . These area essential. If the kids are not learning the basics, they'll never become tomorrows scientists, teachers, doctors, engineers. Get the 3 r's down and them move to the arts, music, etc.
 marathonman11x7
Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 73
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/7/2008 9:50:16 AM
Its sad that "race" is still the negative force in societies today. Its ironic that one of the most important institutions needed to combat the negativity actually must compromise real education to even attempt to do its job. In a multi cultural nation(even a nation that is NOT multicultural) representation of various cutural groups must be fairly presented in education. this is obviously relevant in literature, arts and history(and other social sciences). Those are the areas in which there is or can be a "focus". A focus is ONLY needed when there is and/or has been a VOID or misrepresentation/underrepresentation. The "focus" concept is NOT new; its NOT de visive it simply focuses. There have been schools that focus on arts, sciences,industry even gender(although gender "focus "schools are almost always private).

The problem is that there is still a need for a focus school on misrepresented cultural groups that make up significant portions of a nation. IF, the curriculum is already multi cultural adequately there would NOT be a need for schools that have that "focus". I have found that the 2 Canadian curriculums I have reviewed are sorely lacking and misrepresentative of cultural "minorities" in Canada.

A part of the fore mentioned problem of need is that so many still think and believe in the concept of "race' even in the field that is responsible for fighting ignorance.....education. therefore adult fools see these things as 'racial' issues and not cultural issues that are important to the healthy strengthening of a nation. An educational system that supports ignorance is a system that ultimately continues a mechanism that weakens a nation.

I ran a private school that had a focus on CHRISTIAN education. Most of the students were African American,Latino or Native American. I changed the curriculum to fit my students cultural needs. In a nation in which they were the cultural minority and underrepresented when not misrepresented in the media and in other areas, I felt it Imperative to do what any VALUABLE educational system must...STRENGTHEN THEM. I felt it imperative to make sure they had food to strengthen their bodies, spiritual food to strengthen their spirits; cultural food to strengthen their communities and sense of self and well being ...beginning with knowledge of self; academic food to strengthen their minds and foster tools to lift up their nation. Some may call this a "focus" school. I suppose in a sense it is.....focus on doing something to help children have the tools to BEST help themselves once they become adults. Others may use the term specialty school...it is......the specialty is on allowing children to see how special they are.

As I see it, the educational system being caught up in ignorances many adults carry had to compomise from instituting a better more comprehensve multi culltural or TRUE curriculum throughout the educational system and instead have a "focus school".Shame that there is still a need, but there is. I applaude them for trying to do SOMETHING positive.
 dkhoney
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 74
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/9/2008 3:25:01 AM
Attendance at this type of school will be a matter of choice, not force. While all people are equal they are not the same, different students have different needs and intrests. Expanding the educational options made availible to parents for the education of their children does not seem to me to be a bad thing. As other posters have mentioned, we currently have schools that offer different choices ( Catholic, Islamic, Gifted, Acedemic, Vocational etc). I fail to understand the hoopla regarding the creation of an Afrocentric school. The other thing that is puzzling is the complete disregard that people have seem to have for other cultures in this country that prides itself on its supposed commitment to diversity. As the child of mixed parentage I would have welcomed the chance to attend such a school. By virtue of growing up in Canada I am well versed in all aspects of Canadian culture. I am surrounded by it when I go to work, go to school, turn on the television or read a newspaper. To gain an understanding and appreciation for the aspects of my cultural background that are not from European roots, I had to make the effort as an adult to seek out information on my own. The teaching materials used in my classrooms reflected the majority of the students, they did not represent me. When other cultures are discussed in classrooms, they are often reduced to the food they eat, dances they perform, music and mythology. It is unfair to expect teachers to be able to address every single cultural background in a class of 30 students in depth and in a meaningful way. By default, teachers and the curriculm in mainstream schools speak to the majority population and try their best to be respectful of others. In a city the size of Toronto, there is a large enough population of students to justify the creation of a school geared more strongly to the commonalities present thoughout the diaspora of "Black" cultures. This is not segragation. Segregation is about the forceful legislated seperation of people. This is a matter of choice. Some parents may choose to send their children to this new school, others will not. Just as some parents send their children to boys schools or girls schools or school with uniforms or Catholic school this is simply one more option. It seems to me that in our country we need to reduce the number of children that fail to graduate high school. If we keep doing the same things we are going to get the same results. If the creation of schools that speak to the needs and intrests of students currently at risk increases the number of graduates I am all for it. And that applies to Jewish schools, Sports, Arts, Academics, Islamic, Boys, Girls, Christian, Islamic, Hindu, First Nations(s) and so on.
 dkhoney
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 75
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/9/2008 3:55:26 AM
I respectfully have to disagree with your perspective . It is true that Canada was not built on the backs of slaves as was the case with our neighbors to the south. That being said, as Canadians we really do need to stop patting ourselves on the backs so much for being more tolerant then Americans. Canadian history is full of incidents of injustice and racism. The Chinese head tax, the moves to stop African -American settlers from entering Alberta and Saskatchewan in the early 1900's, not to mention the historic and ongoing treatment of First Nations(s) people in this country are but a handful of examples. As Canadians we seem to think that so long as we aren't burning crosses on someones front yard that there is no racism here.

As far as the comment about "some group squeez[ing] canadian taxpayers for their own personal agendas," are not the parents of these children Canadian and are they not taxpayers? My parents are taxpayers as am I, yet I don't accuse you of squeezing me for my tax dollars that go toward the creation of a curriculum that benifits white Canadians more than it benefits other Canadians. Isn't the point of education and the tax money earmarked for that purpose intended to provide the best possible educational success for all students? As a citizen of this country I want my tax money to be used in the most effective way possible. If 40% of one group of students is failing to graduate, I don't think we can say these kids and their parents are just bad people. Something else needs to be done because clearly, what we have in place now is not providing the end results I think all Canadians are looking for. Namely, educated people who are able to contribute to our society and become taxpayers themselves. If this school increases the graduation rates of these students and reduces the number who end up in the justice of welfare systems I would call it money well spent. I would rather pay now for 3 or 4 years of high school as opposed to paying for 20 years of incarceration or 60 years of welfare.
 dkhoney
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 76
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/9/2008 4:01:13 AM
To postulate that Black schools will teach students to hate white people means by default that schools which are predominatly white teach students to hate black people. Utter nonsense. Now I am sure people are going to jump all over me but so be it. Why is it that anytime a minority group seeks to do something for themselves people complain that they are racist or promoting segregation but if those same people keep going with the status quo and fail, people point at them and say they need to try harder or pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Seems to me a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 handsm5
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 78
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/9/2008 5:30:16 AM
I don't know much about Canadian school law - or American 'school law' for that matter ;)
I DO know we have schools here in PA - where the students (and teachers) are 90% black...yes, most are in/near the city area's but the point remains -
{the actual figures are between 87% - 90%) for some.
If (this) law is inacted, will there be 'WHITE ONLY' schools? If so, go for it. May help both sides.
Finally, here in PA, even though a city school is 80+% black, the revenue collected to FUND these schools comes from - the homeowner property taxes, which continue to escalate. The very large majority of these tax paying homeowners (at least 70% last check) are paying for 'these schools'...
So I would say - if the black community wants their 'own / all black' schools, we do this.
Each ethnicty funds their own schools :)
 marathonman11x7
Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 81
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 6:57:31 AM

i dont think it teaches anyone to hate anyone
but merely instills separatism and alienation
if YOU BELIEVE THIS, YOU THEN BELIEVE THAT ALL GIRL OR ALL BOY SCHOOLS "INSTILL SEPARATISM AND ALIENATION" MORE SO THAN COED SCHOOLS?

Canada is multicultural however 97% of those cultures are European! There are VAST numbers of schools in Canada in which 97- 100% of the students are of European descent. Do they all instill separatism and alienation ? It would seem that by YOUR "logic" they do.


our resources should b put towards educating all people equally, not some individual group or class of people who may or may not think they have superiority over another,
As I stated in my earlier post...this HAS NOT BEEN DONE. The educational system in many if not most if not all Canadian schools is EUROCENTRIC.
Canada is multicultural , period ,anyone truly interested in learning more about a certain culture has ample means to do so by visiting a library or surfing the internet, these forms of education should be voluntary not paid for by joe taxpayer or supported by the right wing separatistsic idealists
Canada is multi cultural...however the educational system or rather the curriculum used is NOT. Perhaps the left wing separatist or idealist are LESS interested in Canada and its well being than their own narrow,logic deficient political views. IF an effort to educate CHILDREN CAN be more productive and more efficient why not try it rather than whine about the possibility of change.....pocketbook change rather than positive change? Are there Native focus schools? YES Is there a need for more and at that more efficient ones? YES! As a world citizen I'm more interested in the most efficient and productive means of educating children rather than POLITICS .
 marathonman11x7
Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 82
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 7:12:20 AM

Yes, the US is full of racism. We speak our minds, thats how the world knows about it.
Not exactly...the world knows about racsim in the USA NOT simply because "minds" or more appropriately the mindLESS speak but rather due to the fact of the OBVIOUS.Its the history and present day OCCURANCES. In the USA no longer are the ultra ignorant racist in vogue but rather those who are but try to find covert means of expressing it. the fact is that racism will exist as long as the tools for its INSTITUTION continue. Unfortunately the educational system by and large is part of that institution in most cases. Is overt racism as rampant in Canada as in the USA? No.
Having said that,I'll say EDUCATE as to the foolishness and falacies inherent with the concpt of race in a factual manner and racism will eventually erode like the thought of the world being a flat plain in whioh ships wouled fall off at a point.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 97
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:26:02 AM
Well heres the way I see it, over the last few yrs theres been a lot of shooting going on by gangs in TO. The Bay Street boys don't want there pristine white sons shoot. So support from them will be welcomed by the originators of this project. Eventually they will use this system to segregate whoever they will consider to be a bad black kid, and transfer him to that school. Get them all in one place. This will create chaos and influence the mindless ones to give them the wrong impression of Black Children. If you had a school full of bad white boys its normal but bad black boys is worst. The drop out rate for Black kids is not because they don't know there heritage its because they see no future in a white world, there kids still. We all know that opportunity knocks for everyone in this country. Theres going to be prejudice fools constantly, no matter what race or country your in. Hey I'm Irish Italian, I wonder is there going to open a school for me. I need a little insight too.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 99
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/19/2008 3:45:48 AM
In the last provincial election in Ontario, Tory of the conservatives wanted to finance Religious schools to the tune of 500 mill. It was an issue that I imagine many people would have liked to see. What many of us forgot was before him in the conservative party Harris during his term, wanted to finance Private schools to the tune of 500 mill. Same amount different reasons, same schools would get them. It was all about us, the public financing private education without the general public allowed.

It relevance is, same message, different causes.

My buddy at the time offer the idea that for those who need religious study, why not focues on it as a subject or class in every school. It would not be hard to offer a class or subject for Black culture. After all, it would be easier to reach all the Black children if it was offered in every school, if the student wished to take the course.

For me I cannot feel that there is another under the table reason for this.
 untamed one
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 101
Black-only schools
Posted: 2/19/2008 12:36:01 PM
I'd want my child in a school without the threat of getting raped or shivved in a school, so yes , without the threat of being put in school with dumbass troublemakers is very appealing ,. please sign my kids up for caucasian school , where kids have a basic knowledge of english already as per the charter of Canada .
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 102
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/19/2008 5:15:32 PM
IMHO...multi-culturalism is very destructive and a contradiction both in terms and in practise .
If you create an environment where people are not able to retain their culture ... where they are forced to homogenise into a politically correct borg like culture , then , you will have succeded in destroying diversity ....not to have supported it.
I believe in people's basic freedom to associate with whom they choose.
I support diversity , whether it be religious or for blacks or whites or any colour.
 cedar77
Joined: 7/17/2006
Msg: 104
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/20/2008 5:09:26 AM

Opening up a White (Euorocentric? Anglocentric?) Alternative school "that will focus on the sources and knowledge and experiences of peoples of European and/or Anglo descent as an integral feature of the teaching and learning environment". Oh wait, we already have these schools all over the place......its called the public school system.

I do not agree.
I believe that modern public schools are concentrating on political correctness and social engineering , where European heritage (white ) is slandered and demonised at every opportunity. This , despite the fact that Europeans have very much to be proud of ...as all cultures should be.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 105
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/20/2008 5:32:49 AM
--We Americans, most anyway, allow immigrants to live their lives with their own culture.--

Well thats multi-culturalism, my Grandfather lived in Canada for 60yrs and couldn't paste together a sentence in English. He lived in an Italian district of the city. He could understand English but could not speak it, it mattered not to me, I love the guy. So it seems that we aren't much different than Americans on that.

Its an issue to day even to say Merry Christmas to someone, they want Happy Holidays instead to bring the reference off the original tradition of what Christmas is.

For me I tell no one they Can't wear a burka, baseball hat, sacred knifes, turbin, cowboy hat, head bands, what clothes you should wear and etc.

When in Rome you learn to live as the Romans. Its Rome!
 forumschick
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 115
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Black-only schools
Posted: 2/20/2008 10:39:29 AM

i think the concepts of heritage, culture, and racial pride need to be instilled by parents.


I disagree, the concept of heritage and culture should be taught by parents for the sole purpose of kids to know and learn their individual background.
Given how incidental your ethnicity or heritage are, there should be no pride or personal satisfaction instilled by anyone because of it. Never, ever, ever!
Instilling any pride because of heritage, ethnicities, gives way to the implication of superiority amongst the rest of ethnicities, culture, etc. There is only one race; human beings…

Diversity is the number one culprit for perpetuating the vicious circle that is Prejudice and Racism. Whatever your heritage is, doesn’t make you anymore special than the rest of the world. Individuals are different because no human being was created like any other. We are unique for the simple fact that we are just that; human beings.


This is a great idea. Its about time white and blacks were separated in schools. Whites have suffered far too long from forced integration


Prejudice never shows much reason; therefore, it cannot be removed by logical argument.
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