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Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 2
Transhumanist technologies and sexual selectionPage 1 of 1    

With nothing to compare to, how could we make choices as to what we find beautiful and that we find unappealing?
Where would the variety be?
Today, we see a lot of "bottle blondes", all trying to look the same. Not much choices there ,is there? We see the teenagers all dressing alike to express their individuality....might as well stamp 'em out with cookie cutters!
We need variety. We need differences. We have to have things to compare to.
Everything serves a purpose. From the ugly looking deepsea fish that could give a "Hannibal Lecture" type nightmares to the butterflies...all have a place, and a purpose. Sometimes when that species place and purpose is overtaken, then their time has come...and they pass away into the pages of stone we call fossils.
Joined: 11/8/2006
Msg: 4
Transhumanist technologies and sexual selection
Posted: 2/8/2008 6:01:58 AM
I doubt the technology you speak of would make individuals any happier as changing one's look is simply like putting a band-aid on a pimple. The puss of the pimple is still there, it is simply hiding behind a band-aid. Ask most people who have had plastic surgery if they truly, honestly, deep down feel better about themselves as an individual and you'll most likely find that they are not any happier. This is so because they are looking for happiness outside of themselves. Physical beauty does not necessarily equate to inner beauty, which is the source of true happiness. True happiness comes from within. Anyone can attain happiness regardless of physical appearance. This happiness needs to be found within - not without. Furthermore, one must have a healthy sense of self in order to have truly healthy relationships with others. This technology would not help a persons' happiness level nor give them a healthy sense of self, it would only act as a band-aid covering what ails them within.
Joined: 5/12/2014
Msg: 6
Transhumanist technologies and sexual selection
Posted: 5/15/2014 6:15:57 PM
Possibly but if according to the Russian 2045 timeline. Avatar d will be the uploading of conciousness into a Holographic body and the whole concept of Human features will be trancended not to mention the fact that with super intelligence factored in,will this even be a priority.

For me personally I want to explore the Meta Universe and Interstellar migration to meet other civilisations who have a tottally different construct to their reality""

If you want something a bit more mind blowing than that,have a listen to Jason Silvas sound byte on the
(Trancension Hypothesis) and what happens after the Singularity has been achieved:
Joined: 4/18/2013
Msg: 7
Transhumanist technologies and sexual selection
Posted: 5/18/2014 7:58:55 PM
Mirror, mirror on the wall......
Who's the Fairest of them All

Shortly, we'll be able to take our genetically engineered apples over to our step daughter's house for a lil snack too.
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 8
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Transhumanist technologies and sexual selection
Posted: 5/23/2014 3:37:43 PM
My question is do you think this would make the world a better place? If people could change their looks at will so no one was physically unattractive? I think it would because people would then be more likely matched by true compatibility and this would lead to an increase in happy relationships. It would also effectively end discrimination based on looks in our society. Additionally good looking people will have to straighten out and work on their personalities, and humble themselves to be like the rest of humanity. Do you agree with my assessment? Do you think the world would be a better place if humans had these options?

I think that a better question to ask, or obsesses over for its intellectual value, would be "why do humans tend to gravitate towards a certain type of aesthetic outward appearance when choosing with whom they will consort?" I don't think that a "concept of beauty" is as much given to us by "media" as some people in this thread would have us believe. Instead I think that media uses a general sence of beauty to bombard us with "fashions to be bought". In other words media takes advantage of a shared inherent concept of beauty that already exits.

I think that our concepts of beauty and the reason why we pursue "the beautiful" has a more genetic reason as opposed to self conscious reasons.

Have any of you ever heard of the silver fox experiment?

(There was a better video but I couldn't find it - it talked some about bone structure changes)

In the silver fox experiment foxes were selected for temperament. The silver foxes that were not as aggressive toward humans were bread together, over time this selection of temperament lead to physical characteristics changes with in this breading group. The group gradually became more docile and more "cute", indeed changing the characteristics of the silver fox to resemble that of the modern k-9 (both physical and temperament). Could this be done in reverse? Could we select for physical characteristics and affect temperament? I think that it would be possible but more difficult to acomplish.

Anyway, I think that this selecting for beauty (among humans) works much in the same way. We are compelled to do it because there is some evolutionary component driving us to "select" in this manner, and for a reason, though that reason is not readily apparent to us at this time.

My real concern is the people who are cheating this process with modern cosmetics and/or cosmetic surgery, where as, changing ones appearance through genetic manipulation seems a more correct approach, as long as it was tested and safe. At least then the proper genes would be being disseminated into to gene pool.

As to what I think concerning the morality of genetic manipulation/enhancement, I think that this quote from Willard Caylin sums it up:

"I not not only think that we will tamper with Mother Nature, I think Mother wants us to.

It is inevitable I think, the true moral concerns lie in how we go about doing it. A good/simple/easy example of where some moral ideology on the subject can be found, would be the movie "Gattaca" - the same place I got the above quote from.
Transhumanist technologies and sexual selection
Posted: 5/23/2014 5:44:16 PM
I consider Gattaca one of the "classics of all time". Everybody should go get or order this movie and watch it this weekend. Go on now...git. Watch it. (Ethan Hawke, Uma Thurman, Jude Law, etc.)

Concerning only the ability to change or choose one's appearance (and one's offspring's) (independent of other utilitarian or practical genetic tinkering), and how that would or wouldn't affect our general sense of happiness or our awareness of character in a world where nobody is "ugly"...I try to run it through my head in different ways, different directions, turn it over, etc, attempting to extrapolate or predict how it really would go. I come up with different inklings and want to say this or that about it, but nothing to really stand behind and put my money on...except for one thing. I'm just not sure that I can predict things very reliably per the posed thread question, but in the process I realized something else that I think is an interesting notion. And I want to use more than a couple of sentences to explain it...

I use the word "homogenized" in certain subjects, because it applies and works. So I want to make sure that everyone understands the word.

A while back there was a T.V. show called Trading Spaces, in which two couples or families would re-do a room in each other's house, the common element in all episodes being two people who'd direct and help with each party's idea of re-doing the other's room. I didn't watch much of it, but I caught one time when these two people were talking a little bit about their experiences doing the show. One of the things they said that stuck with me was that they'd traveled the country, did shows with very different kinds of people, very different kinds of houses, in many different kinds of places, etc...yet, something that seemed so odd to them was that, no matter where they went, whenever they'd go into someone's house, "there was always that same old damned coffee table". They used the word "homogenized". They said that despite all the different places, they all seemed to be so homogenized.

One of the things that's wrong with the concept of "attractiveness" in our culture is that in many social circles or stations, or whatever, so many people try to tailor themselves all towards a kind of general common center, or point of gravity, so to speak...differences can be found, but it all still seems to be within certain homogenizing ideals or parameters. "What is beautiful", and why it is beautiful, has been turned on it's head and turned upside-down, in some respects. Many elements of individuality are discouraged, covered up, weeded out, and down-played...when very often it's traits of individuality which define attractiveness the most.

So, I believe that in a world where we can greatly affect our own appearance, aesthetically, and therefore there conceivably no longer has to be anyone who's "ugly"...people may remember one of the biggest definitives of attractiveness. There may be born a trend towards being different, much more drastically than what one might immediately think of. In a world of relatively bland homogenization, what "attractiveness" is or means may be realized, and even the most basic beliefs and assumptions of what's pretty or handsome will be challenged and played with, with lots of people swinging back to those so-called "oddities" or "deviations" of appearance that we already have but are thought of as undesirable now. (I don't just mean eye or hair color as we have today.) And of course this will be combined with the resultant revelation that there really are very different ideas of what's attractive, but just not collectively acknowledged as such, which will drive this trend even more.
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