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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?      Home login  
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 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 3
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?Page 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Caucasians probably originated in Central Asia in the Afghanistan-Uzbekistan region and then expanded south and west from there. People usually think of Caucasians as "white" however many, perhaps most, Caucasians are not very light skinned. Caucasians are not descended from Arabs, however Arabs are Caucasians.
 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 6
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/28/2008 8:53:44 PM
We often see Caucasian used as synonymous for "White" however that is not accurate. As a racial group Caucasians include Northern Europeans, but it also includes many people from Central Asia, the majority of people on the Indian Sub-Continent, and the Mediterranean regions. Given the population of India today it is probably accurate to say that most Caucasians are not "white."
 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 7
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/28/2008 9:02:55 PM

ever notice how the Afghans look like Caucasians?


Here is a story about the famous "Afghan Girl" from the National Geographic cover.

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.php?title=Afghan_Eyes_Girl
 SoLongThanksForAllTheFish
Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 8
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 9:20:07 AM

When my friend mentioned that I couldn't put 2 and 2 together because you think Arabic you think of a person that would be very dark skinned but there are light skinned Arabic people some even have Nordic Caucasian traits like blue eyes which is not common but not impossible either


Arabs are not a race. They are a cultural/language group.

Semites could be considered a race, perhaps, but I've never thought them particularly dark-skinned. On the other hand, I wouldn't assume they're an offshoot of Caucasians.

In any event, white-skinned people are thought to have originated from the area of the Caucasus (hence the name) then spread elsewhere. I'm sure there are as many theories as there are people who seriously study this, but I think that's the most widely-accepted view.
 SoLongThanksForAllTheFish
Joined: 6/14/2007
Msg: 9
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 9:32:01 AM
Oops missed the main question... Could Caucasians be an offshoot of Semites?

It's possible, I suppose, given their locations and relatively close looks - but I don't know the current thinking.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 10
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 3:32:42 PM
Well, if we talk of Causasians colloquially, we are referring to Indians and Europeans, all of which are supposed to have migrated in successive waves from the Middle Eastern basin, upwards to the general area of the Caucasus, and from there North and East to Russia, and West to Europe, from the Middle East again, West to North Africa, and South to India.

It is possible to migrate from Africa direct to Europe, but you'd have to cross the Mediterranean. Also, this migration would have had to have occurred before Roman times, because Europe was already populated by then.

The general migration of tribes in Europe, such as the Celts, and the various Germanic tribes, always paints a pattern of migration that comes from Eastern Europe and Asia Minor (Turkey). So the people of Europe appear to have slowly migrated in successive waves, which work backwards to Eastern Europe and Asia Minor. But the ancient peoples of Eastern Europe and Asia Minor have similar successive waves of migration tracing back to the Middle Eastern basin (Iraq). The only exception is that the peoples of Greece appear to have taken to the sea, and re-entered the coastal regions of Middle East, and even stretched into the coastal regions of North Africa, via the sea. But even the Greeks can be traced back to the Middle Eastern Basin.

Africa is a little more complicated, because we are entirely reliant on what is evidentiary methods that don't include a historical record, which is incredibly surprising considering just how quickly a historical record existed in the Middle East from colonisation.
 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 12
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 4:44:04 PM
I read somewhere that the Celts had a caste system similar to the system found in India and the some believe them to have common origins. We do know that the Celts resided in Asia Minor, so it's not too far of a stretch to suspect they may have been connected to the Indians. Modern DNA testing could probably confirm or rule out that theory.
 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 13
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 4:59:27 PM

DNA has shown the path we took with little or any margin of error. It was out of Africa and the Mediterranean was not an obstacle. Some of the first to see America were from France by way of the Atlantic coastline who migrated as far as Peru, if I remember correctly, approx 20,000 years ago.



That idea is a matter of hot debate among anthropologists and so far it seems that most still fall on the side of an Asia only migration to America. However there is some MtDNA evidence which suggests that there is also a European connection, as well as similarities between the American Clovis and European Solutrean stone technology. Personally I believe that there is a good possibility that some prehistoric Europeans managed to make it to America
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 15
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 9:37:34 PM
....the word 'caucasian' has more of political definition than anything else, but for simplicity i'll refer to it as a taxonomic term.

.......the forerunners of 'caucasians' emanated from the high altitudes of present day northern india, pakistan, afghanistan, (aka Aryans).......which in turn migrated to these mountainous regions from the plains of India.....in doing so they slowly lost their pigmentation (as it would be expected) since the climate is considerably cooler.

....as populations grew they then migrated outward(in multiple directions) into the low lands, very likely in stages...........there may have been clusters of these pple who moved eastward but did not thrive there as well(though some may have ended up as far as Japan, but i'm not sure of what recent DNA testing has concluded)..... as there were some who moved northward towards n.central russia..........and most notably there was a group that moved westward, probably coming in from multiple directions............and it was this group that may have branched out and settled into smaller pockets.....some stopped as close as present day Iran, others moved onward into what now is turkey as well as in the arabian penunsula.......yet others may have gone from Iran through the Caucases (or around them)into western russia and then into northern europe.

...the group of Aryans that headed into asia minor may have eventually colonized the lands surrounding the mediterranean........while the group coming in from russia went on to occupy most of the northern european landscape......as they migrated, each evolved to suit their environment giving them the distinct superficial differences that we see today.
 Aaaammm064
Joined: 1/17/2008
Msg: 16
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 2/29/2008 10:12:40 PM
Not sure, but watch the movie True Romance. There's a good scence between Dennis Hopper and Christopher Walken concerning something very similar to your question.
 quietcowboy
Joined: 12/25/2007
Msg: 17
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 3/1/2008 4:19:22 AM

When my friend mentioned that I couldn't put 2 and 2 together because you think Arabic you think of a person that would be very dark skinned but there are light skinned Arabic people some even have Nordic Caucasian traits like blue eyes which is not common but not impossible either


Some of this is due to the fact that the Nordic would hop in their boats and raise hell all over the place during the middle ages. Central Europe has people that have Asian characteristic left over from the Gengis & the boys. Pure single race people in the Northern Hemisphere for the most part doesn't exist. We've been raping and pillaging each other far too long for that to be possible.
 Prairiephotos
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 18
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 3/1/2008 9:08:43 AM
Long before anyone knew of DNA physical and social scientists as well as politicians broke all of mankind into three races: Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucasian. Negroid was the easiest to pigeon hole, it included everyone who was black. However they always did have trouble explaining how black people ended up in Australia and New Guinea. Mongoloid included all East Asians and Native Americans, and some anthropologists did include the black skinned people from Australia. From the start the Caucasians presented classification problems. Including all of the light skinned northern Europeans was easy, however the farther east and south one looked the skin became darker while the Caucasian facial features remained the same.

Some held the belief that the light skinned Europeans represented the "pure" Caucasian race and that those with darker skin were the result of racial pollution from the other two races. That resulted in laws which prohibited marriages between races and during the first half of the last century Eugenics (racial hygiene) became quite popular.

Fortunately mankind is starting to outgrow those old fashioned racial ideas and recent science is showing that what had been thought to be pure is actually a rather complex genetic soup. The old classifications still do have some use. Physical and forensic anthropologist can look at bones and get some idea of what a person looked like and where they may have been from. But if we go back to our two thousandth or so great-grandfather we are all related, and he's black.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 20
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:59:07 PM
Well, I am Greek, Turk, Libyan and Brasilian, and I DONT consider myself "Caucasian", and neither do most "Caucasians" I know consider me one of their kind.

The popular definition of "Caucasion" has been changed, blurred, and redefined in lilly white 21st century North America. The classifications have socially morphed and THAT is what you/we deal with in our lifetime.

Years of being singled out and treated differently led me to the point I am today as someone who quite doesnt fit into "Caucasian" North America. I accept the "Middle-Eastern" moniker readily. Unfortunately, there STILL are stark differences in races and ethnic groups.

Blacks do not realise this difference. Most blacks I have had contact with look at race in a black and white binary spectrum only. If you are not black, then you are either Euro white or Asian to most of them. There is no other view.

In actuality, many blacks have more Caucasian "white" blood in them than I do. I am roughly the same skin tone as Obama or Beyonce`, for example, but they are considered black, while I would certainly be lumped into the white category by both of them , I bet, even though I have North African blood. That is just plain wrong to me, so yes, call me Middle-eastern, because I am certainly not "Caucasian" enough to fit the definition of mainstream North America.

We can argue semantics all day, but at the end of that day, I am classified differently than Mr. Germano-Anglo, who is considered mainstream Caucasian. That is it, in a stereotypical nutshell, with or without scientific notation.

To put it another way, as I am getting the crap slapped out of me in an alley by skinheads, I am quite sure that claiming "fellow Caucasian" will not cause them to cease and desist.
 Vancer
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 22
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 5/19/2008 9:37:01 PM
I always thought Caucasians were originally immigrants whose features slowly changed due to an attempt at balancing out the depressing, cloudy, rainy, cold miserable climates they ended up in.
 GGarbo
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 35
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/14/2009 7:13:55 PM
Vancer is correct.

At one point Europe was shared by humans who migrated from Africa and Neanderthals. The theory as to why we survived and the Neanderthals didn't was due to our diversity as a species making us more adaptable for basically whatever was tossed at us.

Whenever a species is isolated in a different climate, it will have physical adaptations that are better suited to that climate.

So we are likely related to Arabs but not off-spring of them. Now when it comes to what their influences on our ancient cultures may have been, that I don't know.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 36
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/14/2009 9:25:16 PM
Although other posts have degrees of correctness, #33 is spot-on.
Middle-easterners are [by and large] caucasoid. The whole nordic/germanic blue-eyed blonde white stereotype is nothing more than a stereotype and not representative of the race as a whole.

Afghans, minus their Greek and Mongol influences, are likely closest to the Aryan stock, though that isn't necessarily synonymous with Caucasian. Sri Lankans are also likely derived from ancestral Aryans. Germans are not.

On the whole race issue...Caucasian and Mongolian are well-defined and substantiated morphologically and genetically. I don't know about Australasian. Negroid is not valid as a single race, as it's a large assemblage of human groups who simply share some of the ancestral features lost by Caucasians and Mongolians. The best approach would be to recognize multiple distinctly African races, some of which might be composed of only one or two cultural or language groups, rather than none, or a single false collection of dark-skinned African groups.

On species dispersals: Three species, at a minimum, left Africa. H.erectus was the earliest, and was largely an Asian species. It may have interbred with H.sapiens, and probably gave rise to H.floresianus. This species lived a LONG time, and was making fire and tools long before we, or even most of our ancestors, existed. H.neanderthalensis was a short-lived species which I think arose in the Middle-East. H.sapiens also arose in and radiated from Africa. Oddly, H.antecessor and H.heidelbergensis, both of which are ancestral to Neandertals and ourselves, are only known so far from Europe to my knowledge.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 43
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2009 6:03:48 PM
The Aryans actually migrated out of India and through central Asia, though some were also "crowded out" to Sri Lanka. A second reason for European features in Afghanistan is because it was on the eastern edge of the Byzantine Greek empire. As a literal crossroads for millenia, there have been many cultural and genetic influences from all directions - Mongols, Greeks, Russians, and the various peoples of the mountains and steppes between.
 JMars
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 44
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2009 6:34:24 PM
I ca't comment toward the racial dimension, but more "ethno-culturally" a group of people that schoalrs have dubbed the Indo-Europeans arose on the steppes of southern Russia approximately 8000 years ago. The success of the their culture, combined with global warming and cooling trends sent them on migrations startiung roughly 6000 years ago and "ending" (lol) roughly 4000 years ago.

The Eastern Branch of I-E's were most likely the ones more properly known as Aryans, as the term is virtually exclusive to the East I-E languages ... as seen in the Indic arya and in the name of the nation state Iran.

One of these Aryans eventually reversed course moving back into Europe via the Mediterranean and on into Central Europe ... laying the foundation for Greek II, Roman and Celtic cultures. This migration ended about 3500 years ago. The Celtic language show all of the characteristics of an Eastern I-E language, no matter their cultural similarity to the Nordic peoples, and their language also likelty preserves the term aryan in the original name of Ireland.

The link between this wide group is probably best seen in the name of the most widespread deity of their culture ... Old Norse TyR, Anglo-Saxon Tiw, Old High German Ziu, Gothic Tius, Baltic Dweios (sp?), Latin Jovis or Ju-piter, Greek Zeus, Old Persian Sius, Sanskrit Dyauspitar, etc. The suffic "pitar/piter" means "father", while the primary concept references the radiance of the heavens. This is where the term "Skyfather" comes from, though the name really contains much more meaningful connotations of radiance and glory and spirit.

Anyway, even given the disparity between the small populations of invading barbarians vs. the large indigenous populations, right there we find an ethno-cultural link between a very broad range of modern peoples.

And of course, the Western I-E went right on "migrating" as their histories progressed. Greece and Rome were all over the Middle East, which was itself all over Eastern Europe. Even the vikings traded with Muslims and operated out in the Eastern Empire as warriors and merchants. So, there was plenty of oppurtunity for "cross pollunation".
 JMars
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 46
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2009 9:18:46 PM
Linguistic data (words for various flora, fauna, terrain) suggests the steppes of southern Russia as the Indo-European homeland; which aligns geographically and chronologically with the so-called "kurgan" culture, archeologically speaking.

As this is where the Indo-Europeans most likely had their homeland, it is also the homeland of it's various branches, such as the Indo-Iranian or Aryan.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 47
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/17/2009 9:25:42 PM
As well as large chunks of Amerindidian peoples. Linked by mtDNA and linguistics, although in this case, the peoples are of mongolian descent. mtDNA often isn't a great reference point for ancestry, as it's highly skewed towards one individual who may have ultimately contributed next to nothing to the descendants beyond the contents of one egg.

Humans have evolved so quickly in the last 10000 years that racial differences have probably become more exaggerated recently than they were back then.
 CerebralRomantic
Joined: 3/2/2009
Msg: 57
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 6/19/2009 10:02:16 PM
[ A friend of mine explained to me that Caucasians are actually direct dependents of Arabs that originated in the middle east and migrated north past the Caucus mountains hence the word Caucasians. Now this friend of mine though very articulate but I would not call him an expert. I asked another person and they said that theory is incorrect that Caucasians originated from Europe. I hope I'm not stirring the pot hear just curious. Really, if your a believer in evolution then you would agree that all mankind had a starting point and just migrated as they saw fit.

So I'd like to hear from other people, let me know what you think. ]

Your friend is mistaken.

Caucasions share heritage with Indians more so than Arabs, and the actual point of shared heritage is with people in the Indus River Valley who died off many many centuries ago, long before the Romans.

This civilization is largely accepted as being one of the oldest known civilizations humanity has ever had.

We certainly may share heritage with people from the Middle East, but we are not their direct decendants. The closest analogy would be distant cousins.

. . . Although your friend is certainly more on track than whatever idiot said Caucasions orriginated in Europe, because the more familiar form we see today originated in the Caucuses which for the record are in Russia not in the Middle East.

Hope that helps.
 stay_in_stitches
Joined: 3/16/2011
Msg: 59
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 7:27:45 AM
The short answer to OP is no. Caucasian, as a term describing a racial or ethnic group, is a misnomer originating from studies done on craniology by scientists around the early 1800's.

On the other topics brought up in this thread, you have two basic views on the origins of modern humans.
1) Recent African origins
2) Multiregional origins

The main difference between these views is which migrations from Africa resulted in the populations which led to the different racial groups we have today. Was it the later migration of Homo sapiens who replaced Homo erectus & Neanderthals entirely? Or was it an earlier migration which absorbed other species of archaic humanoid followed by concurrent evolution each in their own region of the globe? Keep in mind that these migrations range from 60k years ago to 200k years ago, which generally adhered theory marks as the beginnings of anatomically modern humans. Also note that the older species, Homo habilis & Homo erectus are thought to have emerged in the range of 1.8 to 2.4 million years ago. You will have to decide for yourself if this is important to you or whether it even matters.

Now lets touch on the other aspect which arises from these discussions, which is the historical period of human existence. This is the part that includes the rise of modern civilization & often leads to heated argument. When investigating the evidence, one should include the last 10k to 15k years. This takes us back in to the stone age and includes what is referred to as the megalithic era. These are the periods when large stone structures were erected across the globe. There is tremendous debate as to who constructed these sites, most famous of which could be the Great Pyramids of Giza, although there are much older examples of archeoastronomy, such as Newgrange passage tomb in Ireland. Common sense would assume that the most rudimentary forms of these structures would be the oldest & the more refined examples of these sites were constructed at a later age. Mounds & use of wood predates the erection of stone structures. In other words, the megalithic age runs into and overlaps with the bronze age.

When studying these subjects it's difficult to keep one's own racial or ethnic perspectives aside. However, it's imperative that one does exactly that in order to form an objective understanding as opposed to a subjective understanding. Failure to do so is what often results into taking on the beliefs of radically misinformed groups, such as Nazi Nordicism, Afrocentrism, & even Scientism.

Education starts at the home. Teach your children to read & you will contribute in changing, for the better, the world in which we live. The one-drop rule ain't cool. Every ethnic group has contributed to society, but you will never know to what extent unless you READ ABOUT IT.

Cheers
 sillymeh
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 60
Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 4:33:40 PM
Man wasn't created in Eden 6,000 years ago, you shouldn't tell people that.
I've found artifacts that are at least 12,000 years old. There are mines in South Africa that are 100,000 years old. The dawn of mankind was actually 400,000 years ago..
Most Caucasians are not direct descendants of middle eastern cultures.
 Drakens1
Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 61
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 10/2/2011 12:28:31 PM
Perhaps the original poster was confused by linguistic groups. Iranians are part of the Indo-Europeans along with obviously Europeans. Iranians, however are not Arabs. Arabs are a semitic people, which ironically when they are against the Israels, who are also semitic, calling them anti-semites is sort of saying they're self-loathing.

As for where homo sapiens came from, recent evidence suggest that we interbred with several other close species, such as the homo erectus, neanderthal and the asian denisovians . It seems like our ancestors would have sex with anything that looked remotely compatible. So basically we are the summation of all the different hominids that have existed on Earth.
 arwen52
Joined: 3/13/2008
Msg: 62
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Are Caucasians decendents of Arabs ?
Posted: 10/2/2011 8:35:33 PM
We're all descendants of Africans. And we're all descendants of single celled animals.

We are all made of star dust. Literally.
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