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 AUTHOR
 matchlessm
Joined: 11/11/2007
Msg: 7
Polygamy Page 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Violetskye,

First off, why would the fact that something grown men and women did in their home harmed themselves, but no one else, make it any less their own business? It's usually not illegal to do things that harm only yourself, nor should it be.

Also, everyone seems to be overlooking a very important point about polygamy. During the years when Utah and about a half dozen other western territories applied to the U.S. for statehood, most of the country took a very dim view of Mormonism. Reflecting this disapproval, Congress agreed to grant these territories statehood only on condition that they agree to outlaw polygamy "in perpetuity." It was treated pretty much like slavery (with some justification, I think.) And so, all these new states had to include that condition right in their constitutions. Where it still is today.

What this means is that Utah, Arizona, Idaho, and the others CAN NEVER make polygamy legal without seceding from the U.S.! And because the U.S. would never allow that, these states can never legalize polygamy. But what if some other state legalized it, and a polygamous group married there moved to Salt Lake City? Unless Utah had passed a law that specified otherwise, it would have to recognize the marriage for all legal purposes.

You may not know that there are polygamous communities scattered here and there in Utah, and the authorities pretty much wink at them. Which is damned shameful, considering that these places are known hellholes. The ones that *have* been broken up revealed sky-high rates of spousal abuse, child abuse--including sexual molestation--and substance abuse. Not very glamorous (let alone fair!) for the pretty 16-year-old girl who's been brought up to play her unquestioning role as breeding stock in one of these sorry arrangements--as likely as not servicing a lecherous, mean, 65-year-old drunk.

And no, I'm not a divorce lawyer!
 ~Scoundrel~
Joined: 10/1/2006
Msg: 8
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 2:38:38 AM
Polygamy is better for women than it is for men. With all the rich guys hogging the best girls the rest of us would be stuck with the uglies or nothing at all.

What woman wouldn't choose being the third wife of JFK over the only wife of Bozo the clown?
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 9
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:31:51 AM
Polygamy is affront to everything I believe in, and should therefore not exist.

I am all for polyandry, however.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:45:11 AM
I had my hands full enough with one at a time.
 boyzni3
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 12
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:48:32 AM
The divorce and remarriage cycle here in the US is serial monogamy, cause you are only married to one person at a time, and as far as residing in the same household after a divorce, How does that benefit the kids? Sure in some situations, but not in all as this could be very confusing for the children and cause them resentment towards a step parent.

As far as polygamy being legal, I am all for it as long as young girls, under 18, are not forced to be in a polygamist relationship, which is usually what happens. If there was a way to ensure that the wives were not brainwashed and were told open mindedly about other cultures and monogamy, then to each their own. The problem with most religions though is that they teach their children that only their way is right, and do not offer any unbiased information about other religions.

And while were at it, I want homosexual marriage to be legal to.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:51:35 AM

And while were at it, I want homosexual marriage to be legal to.


I didn't read the article but saw the headline where those that were allowed to be married during that period of a few years ago now can't get divorced. Talk about not being able to buy a break!
 *Bulldog*
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 14
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:00:36 AM

Polygamy is better for women than it is for men. With all the rich guys hogging the best girls the rest of us would be stuck with the uglies or nothing at all.

What woman wouldn't choose being the third wife of JFK over the only wife of Bozo the clown?


Simple application of supply and demand, really. As men can have more wives, the demand for them increases. This bids up the price of wives (whether in terms of what characteristics guys must bring to the table, or in terms of dower).

Traditionally the people who have objected to polygamy are men, and men from neighboring states where polygamy is common.
 isspringhere
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 15
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:14:44 AM
polygamy, hmmm.........................the idea of having 2,3 or however many wives you were allowed to have and having sex with them sounds pretty apealling, but my god.........can you imagine the b*tching, whining, jealousy and all the drama you would have to deal with every day. One bitch is bad enough. Most definitley not for me.

King Solomon had 700 wives and they called him the wisest man that ever lived.............HUH?????? The man had 700 wives!!!!!! how the f*ck is that wise??????
Then on top of that, he had 300 mistresses!!!! DAMN, he was a busy man!
 Argentum Crinis Philogus
Joined: 4/3/2007
Msg: 16
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:19:43 AM

I don't like it and wouldn't be able to accept it unless I can have many husbands. While he out with his other wives, I would be with my other husbands. No polygamists in my family that I know of...there are rolling stones though...


This would be more descriptive of polyamory, a growing trend.

Best.
ACP
 Mae B
Joined: 7/19/2005
Msg: 17
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 11:22:06 AM

Polygamy is affront to everything I believe in, and should therefore not exist.

I am all for polyandry, however.



Amen sister!!

For those of you that can't google

In social anthropology, polyandry refers to a form of polygamous marriage. Polyandry is a specific form of polygamy in which one woman is married to two or more husbands simultaneously. Polygyny refers to polygamy in which one man has two or more wives.


I know several polyamory couples like this, the third in their triad is a male not a female.
Ahhh to have 2 men earning more than $100k in my clutches...
 matchlessm
Joined: 11/11/2007
Msg: 20
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 1:17:27 PM
boyzni3,

You have every right to favor polygamy--but it's a little like favoring a flat earth. For reasons I discussed in post #11, polygamy can never exist throughout the U.S. I'm kind of surprised to see that several women favor something as harmful and degrading to women as polygamy.

I wonder just how they imagine the women involved would go about enforcing their rights to marital property, considering that their marriages are illegal. The man could take everything, and (short of using violence) they couldn't stop him. And guess who'd be left to provide for the children, who get to join their mothers in poverty. But hey, why let little details get in the way of our grand ideas?
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 22
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 1:31:01 PM
Polygamy, not as the case of multiple "ritual or legal" wives, but having multiple partners is alive and well and ongoing in this world. However, it is defined by the income disparity between the haves, and have nots. For instance in a country like Canada or the US, where the disparity between someone with money and someone who does not is not that extensive. So a person with a mineal job, still can have shelter, food, basic fundamental needs covered, such society has a propensity towards monogamy, thus both men and women discourage such activities. But in societies where the income disparity is huge. And I mean here the have nots, do not have shelter, do not have a food to eat or the ability for their family to get out of that hole, polygamy it's not only socially accepted, it is promulgated by the women as well.

Now we may think of such activity as bad, but think about it. Historically it also was a huge necessity. Why? Men went to war. Men got killed. So there was a scarcity of men. So for one man of better means to take another woman and protect her children was not something bad.

Today in an advanced society people still practice what is commonly known as serial monogamy, which is still multiple sex partners, but one after the other, instead of at the same time. Consequently these days is not uncommon to see a woman with three children and they all have different father. A study of people requesting for DNA testing for organ transplant found that no less than 10 percent of the children were sired not by who they thought were their father. Thus adding more food for thought and variations to the form.
 ~Scoundrel~
Joined: 10/1/2006
Msg: 23
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 7:38:27 PM
This is from Psychology Today.

Humans are naturally polygamous

The history of western civilization aside, humans are naturally polygamous. Polyandry (a marriage of one woman to many men) is very rare, but polygyny (the marriage of one man to many women) is widely practiced in human societies, even though Judeo-Christian traditions hold that monogamy is the only natural form of marriage. We know that humans have been polygynous throughout most of history because men are taller than women.

Among primate and nonprimate species, the degree of polygyny highly correlates with the degree to which males of a species are larger than females. The more polygynous the species, the greater the size disparity between the sexes. Typically, human males are 10 percent taller and 20 percent heavier than females. This suggests that, throughout history, humans have been mildly polygynous.

Relative to monogamy, polygyny creates greater fitness variance (the distance between the "winners" and the "losers" in the reproductive game) among males than among females because it allows a few males to monopolize all the females in the group. The greater fitness variance among males creates greater pressure for men to compete with each other for mates. Only big and tall males can win mating opportunities. Among pair-bonding species like humans, in which males and females stay together to raise their children, females also prefer to mate with big and tall males because they can provide better physical protection against predators and other males.

In societies where rich men are much richer than poor men, women (and their children) are better off sharing the few wealthy men; one-half, one-quarter, or even one-tenth of a wealthy man is still better than an entire poor man. As George Bernard Shaw puts it, "The maternal instinct leads a woman to prefer a tenth share in a first-rate man to the exclusive possession of a third-rate one." Despite the fact that humans are naturally polygynous, most industrial societies are monogamous because men tend to be more or less equal in their resources compared with their ancestors in medieval times. (Inequality tends to increase as society advances in complexity from hunter-gatherer to advanced agrarian societies. Industrialization tends to decrease the level of inequality.)

Most women benefit from polygyny, while most men benefit from monogamy

When there is resource inequality among men—the case in every human society—most women benefit from polygyny: women can share a wealthy man. Under monogamy, they are stuck with marrying a poorer man.

The only exceptions are extremely desirable women. Under monogamy, they can monopolize the wealthiest men; under polygyny, they must share the men with other, less desirable women. However, the situation is exactly opposite for men. Monogamy guarantees that every man can find a wife. True, less desirable men can marry only less desirable women, but that's much better than not marrying anyone at all.

Men in monogamous societies imagine they would be better off under polygyny. What they don't realize is that, for most men who are not extremely desirable, polygyny means no wife at all, or, if they are lucky, a wife who is much less desirable than one they could get under monogamy.
 whothehellknows
Joined: 7/23/2006
Msg: 24
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:26:34 PM
If it is practiced between consenting adults without hang ups, I am for it. The problem with the way it is practiced in the US most of the time is it is between religious fanatics who use control and ignorance to keep females (especially young women and even children) under control.

I've known people in poly relationships and it worked for them. But they were all adults who could come and go as they please, not kept under lock and key on some religious compound in the middle of nowhere.
 wizardofossington
Joined: 6/17/2007
Msg: 25
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:32:53 PM
To have several wives can be a man's dream or nightmare....

Can you just imagine having like seven wives. I would name the name Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

 wizardofossington
Joined: 6/17/2007
Msg: 27
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:45:07 PM
^^^ That would be ok when you are young, but when you get old and worn out, those wives would be looking for a younger dude to fulfill their needs.


This is how I would do it, I'll work on 3 days on, 2 days off, 3 days on, 2 days off, 3 days....You get my drift.
 ~Scoundrel~
Joined: 10/1/2006
Msg: 29
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:13:16 PM

In the USA polyamy is against the law, just look at the cult in TX. What a mess, and all those young kids and the abuse


I'm watching Larry King now and he's got some of the wives on. They are saying there are no girls under 18 married.

They way they do it it's not a crime. Only one wife is a "legal" wife and the others are "spirtual" wives. In other words not a legal marrage. So, it's more like cheating except everyone knows. That isn't a crime.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:01:33 PM
Polygamy as described in fundamentalist mormon sect with underage girls is clearly wrong, but no more so than underage marriage.
Polygamy between consenting adults ........ well who cares what you or I think it is not our life to make those choices for. Always have found it funny when people get so upset about what someone else does in THEIR bedroom, if you don't like it don't participate you aren't being forced, nor should you force your views on them.
It would make for one fun tax return though, who deducts what? And insurance companies would be bent out of shape over all the new dependants.
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 31
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:30:36 PM
I know I'm going to tick people off but I think its sick. If you look at most religious cults/beliefs including mormonism that deals with polygamy, it always seems to be about older men sleeping with much younger girls. The girls are taught that this is the norm. Brigham Young married and slept with 6 teenagers, one as young as 15 years old. He had 57 kids and 16 wives. In any century this is sick. Its wrong and anyone doing it should not be allowed to live in the U.S. 15 year old girls dont' have the mental compacity to deal with this.
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 32
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:33:11 PM
Posted By: Mr. Mxyzptlk on 4/16/2008 733 PM
Subject: Polygamy
Message: Whether we're talking polygyny or polyandry, the restriction against polygamy in Western culture seem, like most of the repressive aspects of our culture, to stem from Christian misconceptions of morality - specifically, their misconception that they have the right to dictate definitions of morality for all of us.

There has never been shown to be any intrinsic harm in either form of polygamy, and some people obviously find some benefit in it. So, my own bottom line position on polygamy is the same as for same-sex marriage: definitely not for me, but I fully support it for anybody else who wants it.
*************
I think your totally wrong. In EVERY polygamy society, the bottom line is old men sleeping with teenage girls. The latest with the standoff at one of the outside LDS compounds. That isnt' a misconception; thats fact. I dont support it in the least. History has taught us 2 things. Many men can't handle money/power, or sex.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Polygamy
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:50:39 PM

I know I'm going to tick people off but I think its sick. If you look at most religious cults/beliefs including mormonism that deals with polygamy, it always seems to be about older men sleeping with much younger girls. The girls are taught that this is the norm. Brigham Young married and slept with 6 teenagers, one as young as 15 years old. He had 57 kids and 16 wives. In any century this is sick. Its wrong and anyone doing it should not be allowed to live in the U.S. 15 year old girls dont' have the mental compacity to deal with this.

It is about polygamy not cults (or any religion you personally do not ascribe to)

I think your totally wrong. In EVERY polygamy society, the bottom line is old men sleeping with teenage girls. The latest with the standoff at one of the outside LDS compounds. That isnt' a misconception; thats fact. I dont support it in the least. History has taught us 2 things. Many men can't handle money/power, or sex.

Funny my 3 would be wives were all over 20 when I met them. And because SOME men cannot handle money, power or sex you believe that gives YOU the right to dictate how I live?

I am no Mormon, just some lucky bast*** that is taking up the slack from all the deadbeat bums, crackheads and ex-cons. Maybe some women have just found a new solution "all the good ones being taken"
 matchlessm
Joined: 11/11/2007
Msg: 34
Polygamy
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:41:37 AM
kthyg,

Whether you, I, or anyone else favors polygamy doesn't matter much in practice. See my post #11. Contract law might come into play in one of the states that has authority to legalize polygamy, if its legislature drafted a statute that drew on principles of contract law. In other words, they'd be treating it as a common law marriage of one man and more than one woman. But these states could also just enact a statute much like their ordinary marriage statutes.

You may consider government regulation of marriage interference. But the Constitution neither delegates the power to regulate marriage to the U.S., nor prohibits the states from regulating it. That means that under the 10th Amendment, that power is reserved to the states or to the people. So, states certainly do have authority to regulate marriage. I suspect the reason states regulate marriage and divorce has as much or more to do with the problem of distributing property at death of divorce, determining rightful heirs, etc. as it does with public sexual morality. Probably the most important reason for marriage, though, has always been to provide a stable environment for raising children. And as the rate of illegitimate births has increased from its traditional 4% to ten times that, the record amounts of violent crime, poor education, and amorality among young people are good evidence of the social value of having children within marriage.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 35
Polygamy
Posted: 4/17/2008 6:28:49 AM

Men in monogamous societies imagine they would be better off under polygyny. What they don't realize is that, for most men who are not extremely desirable, polygyny means no wife at all, or, if they are lucky, a wife who is much less desirable than one they could get under monogamy.


Hahaha. And thus the truth of the matter comes out.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 36
view profile
History
Polygamy
Posted: 4/17/2008 8:05:48 AM
Yup polygamy is illegal because low status, excons, junkies and welfare bums get horny too. And of course they don't want to lose out by having all of the smarter lower status women opting for a better life as a second or third wife, where her and her children would be well cared for. And combining her genes with a higher end partner.

Religious reasons? puh-lease that King Solomon guy had how many wives? And that is not even counting concubines.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 41
Polygamy
Posted: 7/23/2008 7:00:55 AM
yes polygamy is more than just sex ....Polyamory is mostly just sex ..polygamy involves polyamory ..but polyamory dont necessarily involve polygamy...catching on now???

polyamory =sex between more than two people
polygamy= marriage between more than two people
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