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 Vyper®
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 1
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?Page 1 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
Maryland's highest court recently expanded the common-law definition of rape, by deciding that a man can be found guilty of rape for failing to heed a woman's call to stop, even after she initially had given consent.

The case involved two male high school teenagers who engaged in consensual sex with a female community college student in an isolated area of a parking lot. The woman engaged in allegedly consensual sex with one of the teenagers and advised the second teenager that he could also have sex with her, until her told her to stop. According to the woman, the second teenager attempted to penetrate her, with some difficulty, and continued to try to penetrate her for approximately five seconds after she said "stop." He stopped at that time, she subsequently gave him her telephone number, and the three of them drove off to a point where she dropped them off and picked up a girlfriend.

The first teenage boy pled guilty to second-degree rape and was sentenced to eighteen (18) months in prison; the second boy was convicted at trial of first-degree rape and other crimes and sentenced to fifteen (15) years in prison.

Under previous case law, as decided by the same Court in 1980, the boys' actions would not have constituted rape. In that 1980 case the court held:

Given the fact that consent must precede penetration, it follows in our view that although a woman may have consented to a sexual encounter, even to intercourse, if that consent is withdrawn prior to the act of penetration, then it cannot be said that she has consented to sexual intercourse. On the other hand, ordinarily if she consents prior to penetration and withdraws the consent following penetration, there is no rape.

In your opinion can a woman withdraw consent during intercourse? Is it rape if the man persists for five seconds? Two? How about if he completes a single, final downstroke before withdrawal?


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-te.md.rape17apr17,0,5827288,full.story

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/22/mg.morrow.eiglarsh.int.cnn

http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2008/14a07.pdf
 Ezzee
Joined: 7/26/2004
Msg: 2
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:52:00 AM
Yeah, I'm going to have to say that I agree that this might start getting ridiculus. I have no problem with someone changing there mind, but at some point, there has to be some point of no return.

After this, you really want to know what sex is going to be like? Watch this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q-gu6s0eGOk
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 3
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:09:30 AM
Hey I agree Trilby, I mean, seriously 5 seconds? I wasn't there, I don't know the specifics, and I haven't read the court transcripts but while a lot can happen in five seconds, what if he just plain didn't hear her? What if it just didn't sink in? I mean, if he was holding her down, and she was screaming stop stop STOP and he didn't stop, then yeah, nail his ass to the wall.

There have been times when I've been so focused on what I'm doing I don't hear the phone ring, someone knocking at my door, or even someone coming up behind me. For that matter, when I worked in an office I had someone talk to me for about 2 minutes before I even realized they were talking to me.

I've often been with women and in the heat of passion they say stop stop I can't take it anymore ooooooh don't stop don't stop ...........so is that rape too? I mean, I've had women say stuff like "treat me like the nasty whore I am"...does that mean she's really a nasty whore? No, stuff gets said all the time in the heat of passion.

Hey, yes, he should have stopped and the point is: he did and she even went so far as to get a lift from them. Is this something a woman who was raped does? Get a ride with their rapist?

Something is missing from the story that we aren't reading IMO.
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 4
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:35:54 AM
By the way it is rape if the guy changes his mind during sex, but I doubt we'll see many or any cases like that.


Actually this IS a very good point but in reality, rape is more about who has the power or control and who doesn't.

Not to get too graphic but I was with a woman once and I said to her (in the middle of things) I need a break (it was fricken HOT out) and she says "no you don't, clamped her legs around me and we went at it for 5 more minutes....is this rape? According to the rules yes it was..........


"Stop stop - oh please - don't stop" is what is being referenced on this thread ...


But my point was that it could have been, very easily. As you specifically said: it's a learning curve. Again, if he had continued for a minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, then that's a different story. But 5 seconds?

I forget now who posted it but if a woman said NO and meant NO, then fine and dandy. But how often to we hear of women who play "hard to get", how many times do we hear of women who say No, but means yes?

I mean really, picture it, she says Ok to have sex with 2 guys. One has sex and when it comes to the other guy's turn, he's just about to start and she says no....they were obviously already naked, they were already in position, he's on top of her, just about to enter and she says softy, no, he's lost in the world, she says no again, he goes Huh what? Oh f*ck me all to hell, so they get up, get dressed, hop in the care and drive home......it's not that far fetched.

Here's another example for you: I was dating this other woman. I was going down on her, beforehand she told me not to do something while I was there. Well once I got into it I kind of got lost in the moment and did what I wasn't supposed to do. Well she drew back and really smacked me upside the head. I TOLD you NOT TO DO THAT, duh, oops sorry, I got lost in the moment...NOT unheard of....(lol yeah, I've dated some winners lol)
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 5
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:47:52 AM
I need a break isn't classified as this has to end and end now


why doesn't it? By your interpretation? So as men we're supposed to "know" when no means no and yes means no and no means yes and i'm having second thoughts and want to stop or i'm having second thoughts but let's do it anyways?

In MY mind yes, I need a break means I want to stop now, not 5 minutes from now......


you were smirking proudly (or are smirking right now while you reminisce), it wasn't rape ;-).


To be totally honest? I didn't find it funny at all at the time....one thing I learned by that experience is to never date or get intimate with a woman who was bigger than I was.....(which is why I only date women my size or smaller).

And yeah, I understand you're kidding, rape the willing, lol that is funny but still....
 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 6
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:02:32 AM
We're not hearing the whole story here. Why would either defendant plead guilty in this instance if there wasn't MUCH more to the story?

Specifically, why would the first defendant when his action are not defined as rape in ANY court? The "5-second" second defendant has an argument to make but the first is completely innocent since consent was given prior to penentration.

The judge and the defendants had to know something else that was not publicized which would have resulted in harsher penalties. This was obviously a plea deal based on unpublicized information.
 WesternRose
Joined: 1/14/2008
Msg: 7
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:29:41 AM
I am rather confused why two threads now on the topic of Rape.
Is this a major concern as part of the ritual of Dating n Mating?

Rape is Rape plain and simple... both parties know what has happened, even after the effects of the alcohol have worn off.

If it feels wrong...then I would say it is more than just plain regrets but something bad has happened and a rape has occurred.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 8
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:08:35 AM
No-one says "STOP!" for no reason. Generally, stop means: "You are hurting me a LOT! Please stop now before you cause me serious injury!" So it doesn't matter when a person says "STOP!" Whenever someone says it, you have to stop.

If you were having sex with a woman, and she asked you if it was OK for her to stick her finger up your bum, and you said it was OK, only she rammed it in, and it was really hurting, or it freaked you out, and you said "STOP!" Should she keep on?

If your son was in a boxing ring with another boy, just sparring, and the boy hits your son a couple of times, and your son doesn't mind, but the kid keeps hitting your son in the same place, really hard, and your son says "STOP!" Should he keep on? Is it OK for your son to get brain damage?

Stop means that there is a reason to say stop. But you cannot find out why should stop, until you have stopped and listen to the reason. So you always have to stop.

It doesn't surprise me that she said stop. It sounds like she said that the second kid could have sex with her after the first kid was done. But they tried to have sex with her at the same time, like a gang-bang in a hard-core porn film.

It also doesn't surprise me that it was teenage boys who did this. Teenage boys are known to not listen to reason, even when they were killing someone.

I would imagine that these 2 boys wanted to copy a hard-core porn film, and that wasn't the girl's intent at all. Two boys against one girl? That's forced intercourse. She said stop. That is forced unwilling sex. That's rape.

If you don't want to be charged with rape, learn to listen.
 textodd11
Joined: 10/27/2006
Msg: 9
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:54:49 AM
OK, I figured the OP wasn't the whole story so I looked it up. This is referring to the case of Maouloud Baby v. State of Maryland. Here is a synopsis of the ruling just so we all have a basis for this discussion:

A Maryland State Court Rules that Women May Not Withdraw Consent After Penetration: The Perils of Relying on HistoryLate last month, in Maouloud Baby v. State of Maryland, the Court of Special Appeals of Maryland held that once a man has begun a consensual act of sexual intercourse with a woman, he may continue until he climaxes - even if she asks him to stop - without violating the law of rape.

In the State of Maryland, in other words, the law of rape presently does not authorize a woman to demand that her partner withdraw after penetration has already occurred.


As far as I can tell, the sentences of the two teenagers involved was evidentally later reversed.
 Leeanne
Joined: 10/14/2005
Msg: 10
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 11:49:07 AM
The moment someone says STOP - you STOP! No questions or hesitations about it! No one has the right to vilolate another persons body from the second they have decided not to partake in any kind of intimate activity! NO MEANS NO!!
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 11
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:01:03 PM
Did you want to see her again ??? Did you see her again ??? Did you feel you were violated or just exhausted & over-heated ??? If you felt violated after your shower or more than three weeks worth of them ... then yes ... I'm sorry for your experience ... you were indeed raped ....... If you saw or wanted to see her again ....... you're comments on this thread are rediculously self-serving ......


Sorry, all the above parameters you put into the situation have no bearing whatsoever on the situation being discussed: which is: stop means stop, or no means no.

If a husband has sex with his wife while she is sleeping, that is classified as rape. EOS. Doesn't matter if they stay married, if they still have sex, if they even invite 3 midgets a goat and hang a trapeze, he still raped her. EOS.

But I get it, because it happened to a man, it is somehow different in your mind. If this happened to a woman, and during the act she said her version of stop, and he continued, would you STILL say it wasn't rape or a violation of some sort?


Unless you have been the victim of a rape, you will never be able to understand or comprehend what your behaviour would be afterward. As a matter of fact, the behaviour after being raped is completely dependant upon the individual.


Well, there are common denominators that many victims of any crime do take and those are taken into consideration during the trial.

As for whether or not I can say I have or have not been a victim, according to the "rules", I have, I said stop, and was prevented from stopping. Now according to one on this thread, it wasn't.....so I shall leave that up to you.
 DAVE632
Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 12
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:06:23 PM
*edit* sorry didn't see the second page. I thought this was just a similar case ... the 5 seconds to withdraw is already being discussed so I jumped in with what I thought was another case. Statements and feelings are the same tho ...
*************


Another recent case involved a withdrawl of consent during the act and it took him - by her testimony - fully 5 to 6 SECONDS to pull out.

He was convicted. It is under appeal but his life is pretty much ruined, he'll be destitute forever paying the legal bills and may still lose the appeal and have to do HARD TIME.

Such "rape" convictions are ludicrous. No matter what is said about "my body and when I say NO I mean NO." and all that. Contrary to GIVING women power court actions like this take power away from women. Women are systematically being denied the capability to think for themselves and make decisions that they have to take responsibility for. Some women may THINK that is a great step forward for their cause by when EVER you lose the ability to make a choice and be held responsible, in the end it is a LOSS not a gain.

I'm not, as I've said on another similar thread, taking anything away from a true date rape especially where she loses her virginity that way but even that is considered 2nd degree. But the way this PC Rape rulings are coming in by lib left judges is ridiculous. I used to be a cop. I have seen the immediate aftermath of REAL rapes. Some of these rulings are a travesty and an insult to any woman who has been RAPED!!! If I was a woman who had been brutally raped by some psycho ( REAL rape is not so much sex as pain and terror ) and there are these PC rulings of rape by definition - a guy who thought she wanted it too, started intercourse and them was CONVICTED of RAPE because it took him 5 SECONDS to pull out ...??? - I'd be SICK to my stomach.

If society is going to allow women to ruin a life over 5 seconds of a previously consensual act then the least the courts could do is implement a series of degrees of assault and rape so that a 5 SECOND delay doesn't result in essentially the same penalty for the guy as some psycho who buttfu¢ks some 16 yr old for 3 or 4 DAYS until she needs extensive reconstructive surgery, carves his initials in her breasts and stubs out cigarettes on her clit. How ANYBODY can compare the two is beyond me.
 Lixiette
Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 13
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:16:02 PM
To state it plainly, it is rape if refusal from one party is expressed before, during, or even after the act. However, in the circumstances as the OP had posted... that is ridiculous.

I think each individual case needs to be re-evaluated. As the facts were reported, the woman (victim?) in the case did not sound like a victim at all. Why would she drive boys who apparently "raped" her after the fact?

Turn that situation around... say it was a man who apparently asked a woman to stop during the act, then when she didn't stop, he had to repeat what he said. Later, he drove her to a certain destination and left.

Wouldn't that man be pegged as a deviant? This is what that woman sounds like to me. Instead of being a victim, she sounds more like the predator. As the oldest of the three parties involved, she knew she had the upper hand over the two boys and she could play them however she liked.

Rape shouldn't be rape if there was no proof of mental or emotional trauma from the act. Mental and emotional trauma AS WELL AS physical force/act of rape are what makes up RAPE. If the woman was so obliging as to drive the boys somewhere after the fact, she was obviously the one calling the shots.
 9035768
Joined: 9/20/2007
Msg: 14
5 seconds/five hours
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:34:02 PM
The problem for me is not the amoutn of time, but WHAT happened in the amount of time.

A woman can decide mid-THRUST she doesn't want to do it anymore, just like a guy can.

The problem is in that five seconds what happened.
When she said, no or stop, after already consenting to sex you will NOT convince me he knew what she was talking about from one word. If she yelled, "Stop, I don't want to anymore." That would be different.

When he figured out what she was saying did he stop or blow it off? That is why there was a hearing. They had to find out if he was given a clue that what she said was related to the entire act, not just a technique, because consent had been given, previously.
A few people have mentioned how when you're concentrating you don't hear every, when you're thinking about something else, you don't process things as well.

This is not an excuse, but an explanation of why she can't expect to be completely understood when retracting a statement.

No means no, BUT you have to accept that changing your mind causes confusion. It is something to cry about, something to learn from but NOT rape. If he knew what she meant, if it was clear enough that a reasonable person would know what she meant and he continued anyway, it is rape.
If he wasn't sure what she meant until she started screaming and THEN had a small panic, stopping, then he was just very used and mistreated.
 DAVE632
Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 15
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:35:25 PM
""To state it plainly, it is rape if refusal from one party is expressed before, during, or even after the act.""

OR EVEN AFTER THE ACT ?????

And then you go on and argue the other side of the argument??????

No wonder the courts are so screwed up. Women judges!!!!

How the frig are guys supposed to interact. YOUNG guys especially haven't yet realized that 80% of women appear to be clinically BIPOLAR at certain times of the month. The arguments in here from women (some of them anyway) show the dichotomy of their logic. A guys says I have to stop. She sez "NO WAY" and locks him in place. That's OK. Another sez that it is rape EVEN AFTER the act IF SHE DECIDES it was. Then the courts step in and agrees with THAT level of muddled logic.

We're doomed guys.

How can one argue LOGICALLY when faced with that?

This is NOT a No MEAN NO discussion as far as the women are concerned.
It's like that list of RULES FOR MEN.



VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

but SNGL ... they were CONVICTED !!!

You're making the obvious MISTAKE of using LOGIC and COMMON SENSE

something many women and the courts appear to be completely lacking Just look at some of the arguments posted here.



It's :
I CAN CHANGE MY MIND ANYTIME I WANT

I DON'T HAVE TO INFORM YOU OF THE CHANGE

IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ADJUST - OR ELSE.

and we all know "OR ELSE" means sharing a cell with BUBBA for 15 years.

... completely baffling ....

***************

Let me paint a scene for the women here and see if they can see the logic.

You are REALLY into oral sex. You LOVE IT. You're gobbling some guy and REALLY into it.

He says "no. stop." YOU take ..... 5 SECONDS ..... to pull your mouth away.

Subsequent to that you are CHARGED WITH RAPE, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a lawyer, your name is printed in all the local papers and eventually ALL the National news too, you go to TRIAL and are CONVICTED (don't forget you can still get LIFE in some states for the DEVIANT ACT of oral sex) and sentenced to 15 YEARS in PRISON.

FAIR???


Or is it somehow "different" ????





 Lixiette
Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 16
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:50:35 PM

""To state it plainly, it is rape if refusal from one party is expressed before, during, or even after the act.""

OR EVEN AFTER THE ACT ?????

And then you go on and argue the other side of the argument??????


I admit, you've caught me there. Who knew a few little words could make such a big difference. I suppose I should specify... if refusal stemming from trauma of any sort is voice at any time, before, during, or IMMEDIATELY after the fact, then it is considered rape.

 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 17
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:11:59 PM

...or IMMEDIATELY after the fact, then it is considered rape.


Sorry, that doesn't fly either. For eg: a person wants to experiment with B & S, they ask their partner about it, and or go to a dominatrix. He says he wants to be spanked. She spanks him, they decided on a safe word beforehand (which is THE golden rule that no one goes forth without) and that word is Feline.

SO the dominatrix spanks him, he says stop stop stop, she spanks him harder, calls him her little ****, tells him to lick her boots. The session is over, he screams rape and abuse, she goes to jail. At NO time did you scream FELINE.

I have heard of cases where a woman consents to sex, then regrets it immediately afterwards when the heat of the moment is passed. Is that rape? no, that's regret. I have even heard of a case where a guy with a ahem "large" member had sex with a woman who heard about it and wanted to experience it. Then during the act it hurt and she found out afterwards that she tore something inside. She regrets it. Decides to play the rape card to explain the situation to her doctor. Sorry, that ain't rape.

Sorry, if you say yes, complete the act, and are sitting there having a smoke afterwards you can NOT call the rape card.......(bet hey, women do ALL the time).....
 no_1_bby
Joined: 5/3/2006
Msg: 18
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:34:11 PM

Just because he did not stop Immediately does not mean he raped her. 5 - 10 seconds is not rape.


K... well remember that the next time some woman is sliding her finger in your ass despite your protests.. errr... request for her to stop... "oh come on baby, just relax, you know you'll like it if you just give it a chance.."

I think the sentencing in this case is ludicris. I however feel that when told no, or when asked to stop now, that is exactly what should happen. I don't care if you are mid stroke or not even in. Pull your f'n pants back up and walk the f'k out the damn door.

And Oh.. I can NOT believe the guys on here who have said.. "do you know how hard it is to stop when you are hard and ready?"... OMFG that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard in my life!!!! I have walked away from guys who have changed their mind... and been in some serious physical discomfort along the way too.

I SAID no to a guy one night. Woke up naked beside him in the morning. Naked and sore from forced intercourse. I said no before any clothes came off. I said no when he climbed on top of me. What I don't know is if I was drugged 'cause I don't remember much after that point.
 DAVE632
Joined: 6/17/2006
Msg: 19
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:58:36 PM
""No, we don't. Just those that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Please do not generalize.""

It's hard NOT to generalize when news items like this fill our papers and courts. It's also taught big time in most of our school systems. Girls good. Boys BAD and the ones who are ALWAYS responsible when bad things happen.

I think a good portion of the discussion in here is that many women don't take responsibility for their own actions but the courts are backing them. Like I've said this is a BAD thing NOT a great stride forward for women's lib. Court decisions that reinforce a idiot's belief that NOTHING she does is her fault makes her a perpetual victim and so are all other women. It's a travesty of justice and a huge step backwards for women in general.

""K... well remember that the next time some woman is sliding her finger in your ass despite your protests""

EXACTLY the same scenario. I gave an example above and nobody has mentioned it. No means NO should apply to all parties equally. That is what BLIND JUSTICE is all about. It shouldn't be politicized or be pandered to for people with another agenda. And it should rule with common sense. Should a woman get 15 years in prison because it took her 5 SECONDS to pull her finger out of your butt?
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 20
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 2:04:44 PM
Game over at NO!

I know there are situations where there might be initial consent and then rape is alleged later or even if changing her mind while in the act does not guarantee there won't be charges later. But always respect the STOP.

I think there are always gauges beforehand to tell if it's unconditional consent or shaky consent from the outset. The description of the incident conveyed by the OP was a clear situation where the alleged assailant could have easily made the proper assessment that he should not go there even with the supposed initial consent. Situations that should be avoided are usually apparent from the beginning.
 rentahusband
Joined: 4/17/2008
Msg: 21
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 2:04:59 PM

No, we don't. Just those that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Please do not generalize.

and


Hmm...and ALL men are pigs, there are NO good ones out there, ALL men just want one thing...on and on...

Yeah, that's productive.


Please read carefully:

.......(bet hey, women do ALL the time).....

Do men do it all the time? No. Did I say ALL women? No. Did I insinuate ALL women? No.....Do women play the rape card after having second thoughts? Yes....you read about cases like this all the time (or at least occasionally), have I had people I know do this? Yes, Do I know guys that have had this happen to? Yes. If it happens then my statement is true.

At what point is stating a fact become generalization? Now if you want to nitpick, yes, ALL insinuates frequently, but it does happen quite often.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 22
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Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:24:08 PM
He stopped after 5 seconds, so because of the few seconds extra it took him to stop most of you people think he deserves to have his life ruined at such a young age? I seriously think anyone who thinks this is justified must be sick in the head. This is disgusting. She was so "traumatized" that she gave him her number afterwards and went off to hang out with friends. Give me a break. She had the ultimate power in this situation and she obviously knew it.
 Vyper®
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 23
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:50:31 PM
For those who may be speculating on my leaving out any material details to this case, please note that I included links to both an article covering the event (as well as a discussion on video) AND the official judicial opinion from the Court of Appeals, which includes a recitation of the underlying facts -- including the EXACT transcribed testimony of the young woman, as well as the teenage boy who was ultimately convicted.

A couple points:

(1) Thought at least one article states that she said that the boy continued attempting entry for "about five or ten seconds," under oath she said "five seconds" (although this seems more material to the outcome of this case for some posters than it does for others).

(2) One poster questioned whether she would have accepted a ride from the boys after being raped but, in this case, SHE was the driver; and she gave the boys a ride back to where she picked them up earlier.

(3)The facts, as reported, are not clear why the first boy pled guilty to any crime.

(4)This does not appear to be a "threesome" or (as someone stated earlier) "gang bang" but, rather, separate decisions of hers to engage in sex with each of the younger boys involved in sequence.

The replies so far, however, have been an interesting read!
 jd28spot
Joined: 6/22/2006
Msg: 24
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 7:04:50 PM
After reading the comments on this thread.........Now I KNOW I'm never, ever having sex again.....unless I first have a signed, notarized agreement as to what all the rules are. (not even sure if that's good enough to hold up in court should she change her mind at any point)
 Vyper®
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 25
Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:04:05 PM
True TBLZ. I do know that such is how it often happens. Plead guilty; get the recommended 18 months; and be out in 6, with your record expunged at the age of 18 vs. get tried as an accessory or co-conspirator and face the prospect of a fifteen-year sentence. It's really impossible to say what the factors were that led to his plea, but I think it is worth noting -- to Textodd11 @ msg 34 -- that the prosecutors office wields and incredible amount of power over us and it is (at least) conceivable that, under certain circumstances, one could be induced to plead guilty to something that he never did to avoid a more grave penal risk.

Moreover, I don't know that he could have helped accelerate his friend's egress because it appears as though he was some distance physically removed from the scene of the crime; not that cutting the time down to one second would make a difference, if I understand the position of some of the posters thus far.

By the way TBLZ ... e-GAD, you're hot! ; but I digress, LOL.
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