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Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 2
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Divorce rates and custodyPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
My quick speculation on this is if you must continue to be a unit and work through the communication problems necessary to be good co-parents, it is but a hop-skip-and-a-jump from there to working out how to be good partners.

It is perhaps a bit easy to "pull the plug" if you perceive you are getting rid of your "problem" - your spouse - and getting paid to do so.
 dont poke the bear
Joined: 11/28/2006
Msg: 4
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:26:59 PM
I am having a problem wrapping my brain around this post. I dont see how joint custody would effect divorce rates. If the child is spending an equal amount of time with both parents, then yes there will be less child support but there will also be less child expenses....what would this have to do with preventing divorce? If there is joint custody, why would "it be a function of having to remain a unit anyway"?
Joined: 3/31/2008
Msg: 5
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:29:49 PM

Maybe ,because less people are getting married.

Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 7
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:22:09 PM

I think these stats would indeed hinge on the fact that less and less people are getting married anymore.

Well, presumably the rate of marriage is about the same in, say, two different states in the US.
If one state promoted joint custody and the other state had primarily one parent sole custody... then the fact that the joint custody state had a declining divorce rate would be a very interesting stat would it not?
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 8
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:35:20 PM
Less people getting married would not affect the divorce rate per se. However, if less people are getting married for the wrong reasons, whatever that means, then the ones that remain would affect divorce rate.

Since joint, or shared, custody is something that happens after the split, for that to be a factor in the reduction of the divorce rate would imply the reason for the divorce is for one parent to get away from the kids. If it turns out getting divorced won't relieve one of parenting duty, then why get divorced?

While that view may help temporarily keep marriages together, I would venture that it would only delay divorce till the kids are old enough not to be a factor. Maybe in the interim they work things out, who knows, this is all speculation.

In my case, I wasn't looking to divorce my kids, I wanted to stay involved in their lives. And I didn't feel I could do that with a "typical" custody arrangement. I am not looking to "start over", but I felt after years of therapy with essentially no improvement relationship wise (at least half of the problem was me), I needed to change direction in my life, but that direction still included daily involvement with my children.

Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 9
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:37:55 PM
Because break ups are usually nasty; if each has the same amount of time, they can't use the childrens time with the other spouse as leverage, which most do.

Divorce is never a good thing for a kid, but sometimes you have to do it in the best way possible. In todays self absorbed world, there are horror stories of parents not putting their kids first, but their revenge for the other spouse.
Joined: 4/2/2007
Msg: 13
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:24:44 AM
Spot on ....its margo...........I won't go into my details, but the'' quick fix ''seems to be backfiring these days. The green grass hopefully is being .........."drought affected".Had my 6y0 ring me the other night in tears saying........"Dad, I miss you" How do you tell a 6yo boy who want's to see his Father............"I can't do anything about it , it's all about money..............."
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 19
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/1/2008 10:49:46 AM
It certainly would make me pause long and hard. The idea of losing time with my child if I broke up with someone would be tremendous incentive to try to work things out with him.

There is some research into the economic realities post divorce that is pretty interesting. Back in the 80's a sociologist (Weitzman) did a study (later discredited as having tremendous errors in its data) that women's standard of living dropped by roughly 70% while men's increased by 40%. This study was a big reason why child support increased substantially - and, as it was given a LOT of uncritical airplay is why we STILL, some 20 years later, still hold onto that fallacy as a truth.

A much larger study (Stroup and someone else, lol... I'll have to look it up) was undertaken shortly thereafter to correct this flawed study and find solid data... Results post divorce, women's family income declined an average of 20% (8% for professional families) and men's ALSO declined 10% on average. This makes sense... two separate families can not live as well as one.

The thing is, and I haven't uncovered anything to the contrary yet, Weitzman's flawed and discredited study was the political basis for child support reform to correct and even out the post divorce living standards. (again, based on the erroneous decline of some 70% for women and the increase of 40% for men). Once it was thrown out, shouldn't the issue have been looked at again with fresh eyes?

I believe (not sure on the numbers in this next bit at all) cs support was increased by some 20+%. Which would lead me to think that for some women their living standard hasn't changed much at all (corrected the average decline of 20%) and for some men their living standard would sharply decline (an average of -30%).

^^ Just something to ponder
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 22
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:27:19 PM
Maybe because some people are smart enough to understand that joint custoday is bad for childen, bouncing back and forth between two homes. That it is better for children to have just one home. When one parent has the child the majority of the time, they have a stable home they can call their own, stay in the same school all year long, can hang out with the same friends all year long. It would seem mainly with school, if the parents lived any distance(could be in the same town) that children would have to change schools at least two times a year.

People act like children are property and need to be split down the middle like the rest of the stuff they own. Joint custody isn't to make the children of divorce happy, it is to make their parents happy. As a parent the only right you should care about is the right to do the best thing for your children.
Joined: 5/5/2007
Msg: 23
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:48:22 PM
with full custody, only one parent loses fully enjoying raising a child. with shared custody, each parent loses half their enjoyment of child raising. joint custody forces both parents to look at the fact they will both have to sacrifice to some degree. for better or worse they say......and not having your kids.......even for a week at a time.....makes the marriage vows all the more meaningful!
Joined: 8/23/2007
Msg: 26
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/29/2009 3:15:18 PM
Well fine and dandy in a perfect world, but that is not the case with many of us.We are not doing it to be vengeful and we do what is best for our kids . If the either of the parent is unfit then they do not deserve custody of the kids , that would only be irresponsible of the other parent to allow to share custody, example if the father used excessive amounts of alcohol and the children were neglected while they were in his care and they witness dad being drink all the time that is not a safe enviroment and not responsible parent, so it all depends an each individuals case.
Joined: 9/9/2005
Msg: 28
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/29/2009 6:33:59 PM
My guess is that getting child support is a big factor. If she's not going to get it, she will second guess leaving.

I'm a strong advocate of the men getting custody anyway, they tend to do a better job and have a higher sucess rate with the kids.
Joined: 4/6/2009
Msg: 30
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 5/29/2009 6:58:47 PM
In a lot of cases, some couple tend to see the financial portion, the punitive opportunity and few other sides; and a little less with what is trully the best for the child.

Based on the premises that the couple divorce due to reasons other then internal violence or other extreme situations; there is no reasons why both parents can't have equal time, responsibilities and duties toward the child (or in a better relative perspective: no reason for the child to have full access to both of his parent); its a child! it's their child for god sake! Don"t anyone normal wants their child to have the best and be happy?

a kid need to be able to grow in a peaceful situation where both parents are able to still "work" togheter in a relative cooperative way for the best of their child, and not use it to score points against the other, monopolize the child or use the child for any form of leverage.

I will point out here, that am not saying that both parent must live togheter, as even apart, they still can "work" in mature ways towards the child needs, and even sometimes, the overall atmosphere is even better after the separation; thus enhancing quality of life for the child.

saddly, the reality of some parenting today seams to have forgot that. (All hail mighty self and $)

 Southern Artist
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 32
Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 12/31/2009 1:22:16 AM
There are of course exceptions but find your mate in a north State. Why? The Northeast, Midwest and Northwest have the lowest divorce rate in the country. The West(California), Texas, southeast have far higher rates. Basically, the warmer States. There are several explanations for it but if one actually think that it's worth thinking about you'll have your answer.
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 34
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 2/16/2010 8:05:06 PM
wene, you are definitely in the minority, but on the highest road! Were it true that most parents were so selfless, as this is the real issue at the heart of custody & CS, whether we want to admit it or not.
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 35
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 2/16/2010 8:25:37 PM
women file almost 3/4 of the divorce proceedings. they do this because they know they will win. women receive over 85% of child custodyand get most of the material assets. in state with high joint custody the woman doesn't hold all the cards, therefore lower divorce rates(the amount of marriages doesn't effect the rates, 6th grade math). indeed sometimes the man gets the kids and the woman gets the honor of paying the child support. i know this will anger the "we deserve to be paid for sex women" and i will be called a sexist pig but that's ok. i've been flamed several times by womem that hate having their special treatment shown.

It's not about being a sexist pig, it's about ignoring reality. Based on these forums alone, it is those of the male gender who affiliate divorce & custody most closely with money. There are plenty of women (and men, btw) who receive not a dime, yet choose to retain some degree of self respect & stress relief that comes from leaving a bad marriage. The problem lies in your statement that "they do this because,,," You know not why every woman chooses to initiate divorce proceedings; you know not how hard they tried to make their marriage work, or tried to get their partner more involved in parenting. Women receive custody more than 85% of the time because men rarely seek it. The truth is that men who seek custody actually prevail about half of the time. It may be true that the court is slanted toward the woman, with respect to custody, but it may also be true that this is a convenient excuse for men not to try, when the truth is that they aren't interested. The bottom line is that each situation is specific to the parties involved, so your words aren't sexist, they are merely ignorant. Qualifying statements of "that's ok", don't change the facts, and they don't fool anyone either.

"Success" as far as raising children goes, it highly subjective. Being raised by a parent who cares, even if they care just a tad, is always more "successful" than being raised by a parent who is intoxicated, as is often the case when a father wins custody. Not to downplay that particular father's role, but certainly a qualifier for gideon's statement. Statistics also show that a higher percentage of men who are abusive seek custody; is that success, or control? Were their ex-partners given "special treatment"? Clearly, numbers alone don't tell the story; what's your point?
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 36
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 2/17/2010 11:28:56 AM
Do the states that promote joint custody also require separation periods before a couple can file for divorce? One presumes that required separations are in place to ensure that people think more about what they really want to do; avoid rash decisions made in heated moments/periods of a relationship. If they find that being apart with a 50/50 split with the kids is not better, they miss the kids and maybe the problems weren't so bad, then it would not be the joint custody but the enforced separation period that results in fewer divorces, or working in tandem to promote resolving conflict rather than splitting up.

Some people also do actually want to live in the house with their children every day. 50/50 is much better for men than a "traditional" custody arrangement but it may still be difficult for one or both parents to live with.

Maybe it's not that the financials aren't as good for women if 50/50 means no child support but perhaps some of the women that are choosing not to file don't want to have their kids just 50% of the time and are willing to do whatever is necessary to avoid it?
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 40
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Divorce rates and custody
Posted: 2/17/2010 4:46:49 PM
For MARGO, Re Post #22.

A much larger study (Stroup and someone else, lol... I'll have to look it up) was undertaken shortly thereafter to correct this flawed study and find solid data... Results post divorce, women's family income declined an average of 20% (8% for professional families) and men's ALSO declined 10% on average. This makes sense... two separate families can not live as well as one.
If you find that info, I'd be interested in reading it (seems to concur with my non-scientific observations) I did google "Stroup" but could only find this
The Multiple Scandals of Child Support
K.C. Wilson is a reclusive social scientist living in Toronto, Canada
with his cat, Fur. While his background is in cultural anthropology, he
has spent the last 14 years studying our divorce practices and
everything surrounding them. He and members of his family either
went through divorce, or came too close, and it was life-altering for all.
He found it astonishing the gaps between expressed convictions about
care of children and equality among adults, and actual practice. Such
gaps beg many questions about rationales, “group think,” and
children’s needs, upon which he set to work. Where’s Daddy? : The
Mythologies behind Custody-Access-Support is one of the results, as
are Delusions of Violence, Co-parenting for Everyone, and The
Multiple Scandals of Child Support.
K.C.’s articles on male nurturing, co-parenting and gender have
appeared in parenting magazines and newspapers throughout North America.

I did find this on Weitzman
But perhaps the most shocking revelation...Weitzman's research numbers were wrong. A simple, yet devastating error in math. Everyone bought the numbers, no one checked the math.

According to David Kirp, "Careful re-analysis of the evidence shows that, at worst, the real decline is 30 percent: nothing to cheer about, but not so scandalously unfair. More importantly, things even out financially over the years. While women go back to work or remarry, thus getting richer, many men remarry and so add to their obligations."

Eleven years after the "Divorce Revolution" was published and 6 years after the first of her colleagues questioned her findings, Weitzman finally admitted her figures were wrong. She blamed a weighting error and a computer mistake made by a Stanford University research assistant.

But, "I'm responsible - I reported it," Weitzman said.

What Now? These terribly sloppy errors turn out to be more than academic. They are public policy. Weitzman's admission of the error was in 1996. Three years later, nothing has changed.
WOW! That's pretty scary to realize that you have ONE PERSON setting policy.....multiple countries. Apparently the issue has "STILL" not been looked at with fresh eyes? It's been 25 YEARS now....and so far as I know....MANY are still spouting that "flawed" data.
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