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 AUTHOR
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 1
The Global Poverty Act & Obama Page 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Sen. Barack Obama, is rejoicing over the Senate committee passage of a plan that could end up costing us more tax dollars. Mr. OBAMA (for himself, Mr. HAGEL, and Ms. CANTWELL) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations (12-7-07)

The bill is called "The Global Poverty Act." (S.2433)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:3:./temp/~c110Y8MUDD::

In an attempt to reduce poverty in other nations it could end up costing taxpayers billions of dollars. If approved, dedicates 0.7 percent of the U.S. gross national product to foreign aid, which over 13 years he said would amount to $845 billion "over and above what the U.S. already spends."

It would demand that the president develop "and implement" a policy to "cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief" and other programs.

(9) At the summit of the Group of Eight (G-8) nations in July 2005, leaders from all eight participating countries committed to increase aid to Africa from the current $25,000,000,000 annually to $50,000,000,000 by 2010, and to cancel 100 percent of the debt obligations owed to the World Bank, African Development Bank, and International Monetary Fund by 18 of the world's poorest nations.

Is he giving America a preview of priorities he would pursue if elected president?

Here's an article making reference to the Global Poverty Act that I borrowed excerpts from:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56405

I know that the Rev. Wright thing has been talked to death. But Obama continues to be a member of that church whose religious doctrine says "unashamedly black and unapologetically christian with a NON-NEGOTIABLE COMMITMENT TO AFRICA." Is that the elusive "change" he's been skirting around? The church ten point doctrine doesn't say non-negotiable commitment to AMERICA. It doesn't even say a non-negotiable commitment to african americans. it says AFRICA. (Last time I looked that's not around here).

His church website:
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Is Barack Hussein Obama giving America a preview of priorities he would pursue if elected president?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 2
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:39:40 PM
What about the poverty in the United States? I'm a home health nurse and take care of folks who have to choose between buying food and their medications. If that isn't poverty, I don't know what is.

The health care plan that he's promoting would make insurance for "children" less. What about parents who don't have insurance? I guess they still don't get insurance either? At least Hillary has a plan for "ALL" Americans.

Well if what the OP says is true ... there goes another reason I'd never vote for him. I've said it in other threads as well. I'm a Democrat, but if he's the candidate and Hillary is not with him on the ticket ... I'm not voting for him. I won't vote for McCain either. So I guess that doesn't leave me much choice but to look at the Independent party ticket ... sigh.

I have no idea why someone thinks this thread is redundant. I did a thread search and did not find any others with that topic.
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 3
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:19:50 PM
Cotter --

This came up in another thread about Obama. I replied on that thread that it should be a topic of it's own.

Apparently the Obama supporters decided it's not an important enough topic.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 4
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:25:47 PM


The health care plan that he's promoting would make insurance for "children" less. What about parents who don't have insurance? I guess they still don't get insurance either? At least Hillary has a plan for "ALL" Americans.

Whats McCains plan include?
I have no clue ... I'm not interested in McCain or concerned about McCain.

I'm concerned about a health care plan that covers "ALL" Americans and not just a select few. We already have that.

I'm also concerned about the poor of this country. I don't think we should be giving still more money to other countries when we have so many who need it here.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 5
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 4:14:12 AM

9) At the summit of the Group of Eight (G-8) nations in July 2005, leaders from all eight participating countries committed to increase aid to Africa from the current $25,000,000,000 annually to $50,000,000,000 by 2010, and to cancel 100 percent of the debt obligations owed to the World Bank, African Development Bank, and International Monetary Fund by 18 of the world's poorest nations.

Is he giving America a preview of priorities he would pursue if elected president?


Again, that 2005 G-8 conference statement was agreed to and negotiated by George Bush.

If you want to blame Obama on that one, it shows how skewed your thinking is. He had zero to do with it.
 kindapicky
Joined: 8/28/2005
Msg: 6
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 5:47:46 AM
Just my 2 cents:
I'm damn tired of being taxed so the "government" can decide who to give the money to. It's not the governments responsibility to force me to give money to anyone.
Does anyone know just how much money is given to who? North Korea? Africa? or anywhere else.
Let me keep my money and give it to who I want. Why do we have people homeless and starving here but Obama, Bush, or anyone else thinks it's Ok to steal my money and give to who they want.
WE THE PEOPLE, should know how every penney is spent.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 7
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:02:54 AM

WE THE PEOPLE, should know how every penney is spent.




Which is exactly part of Obama's platform :



WASHINGTON - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) and Tom Coburn (R-OK) today hailed the Senate's passage of the "Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act," a bill that will create a Google-like search engine and database to track approximately $1 trillion in federal grants, contracts, earmarks and loans.

"By helping to lift the veil of secrecy in Washington, this database will help make us better legislators, reporters better journalists, and voters more active citizens," Obama said. "It's both unusual and encouraging to see interest groups and bloggers on the left and the right come together to achieve results. This powerful grassroots alliance shows that at the end of the day, Americans want to see Congress work together to get something done and not continue to engage in the partisan gridlock that so often brings Capitol Hill to a grinding halt."

"Every American has the right to know how their government spends their money, and then to hold elected officials accountable for those decisions. I applaud my colleagues for unanimously supporting a bill that will aid the American people in that effort," Dr. Coburn said. "This bill is a small but significant step toward changing the culture in Washington. Only by fostering a culture of openness, transparency and accountability will Congress come together to address the mounting fiscal challenges that threaten our future prosperity."

"The group that deserves credit for passing this bill, however, is not Congress, but the army of bloggers and concerned citizens who told Congress that transparency is a just demand for all citizens, not a special privilege for political insiders. Their remarkable effort demonstrates that our system of government does work when the people take the reins of government and demand change," Dr. Coburn said.

More than 100 organizations ranging from Americans for Prosperity and Taxpayers for Common Sense to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and Greenpeace have endorsed S. 2590.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/


He contributed to writing and co-sponsoring that bill in ....2006.

Prompted into action by the people, as he himself notes.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 8
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:34:31 AM
Some facts on the bill:



TRUTH: The legislation neither authorizes nor obligates the federal government to spend more money. Rather, it seeks to put our current foreign aid programs into a comprehensive strategy involving trade policy, debt cancellation, and private sector efforts to ensure that existing U.S. programs are more effective and efficient.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated the bill would cost less than $1 million to implement.


This would be a U.S. strategy for U.S. agencies. The legislation does not prejudge what the details of the strategy should be—only what components should be included in its creation. Decisions on U.S. policy and spending would remain exclusively with the U.S. government.

TRUTH: The Global Poverty Act seeks to bring greater coherence to our development policy by integrating U.S. foreign aid programs with U.S. trade policy, debt cancellation, and public-private partnerships. Each of these areas is critical to the fight against extreme poverty. Currently, U.S. global development policies and programs are implemented by 12 departments, 25 different agencies, and almost 60 government offices. Increased coordination is sorely needed to be effective. The Global Poverty Act does not establish any new foreign aid programs.


The Global Poverty Act states that it would be “the policy of the United States to promote the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme poverty, and the achievement
of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.” The legislation does not state that the eradication of extreme poverty would become the exclusive goal of U.S. foreign assistance or seek to change other existing U.S. foreign assistance goals.


The Global Poverty Act addresses only the eradication of extreme poverty and the first Millennium Development Goal (MDG), which aims to halve the proportion of people worldwide who live on less than $1 per day. The treaties referenced are from another document, the Millennium Declaration, signed by the U.S. in 2000 along with all the countries of the world. The Global Poverty Act does not address the issues in the Millennium Declaration and only focuses on U.S. efforts to alleviate extreme poverty

http://www.bread.org/take-action/ol2008/gpa-fact-sheet.pdf


The Global Poverty Act passed out of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on July 31, 2007 and was passed by a unanimous voice vote by the full House on September 25.

The bill was passed by unanimous consent by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 13, 2008.

It's based on the Millennium Development Goal.



The Global Poverty Act breaks new ground in three important ways:

1.
For the first time achieving one of the Millennium Development Goals will be included in U.S. law.
2.
Over 20 government agencies currently participate in development activities, sometimes at cross purposes. The Global Poverty Act would ensure the maximum benefit to those in greatest need by coordinating the efforts of each agency that administers aid.
3.
13 of the world's major donors have reported on their progress towards meeting the Millennium Development Goals, while the U.S. has not. This legislation would require a regular report to Congress on U.S. progress towards meeting the first Millennium Development Goal.

http://www.bread.org/take-action/ol2008/global-poverty-act.html



And let's see what President Bush said about that.



To spread a vision of hope, the United States is determined to help nations that are struggling with poverty. We are committed to the Millennium Development goals. This is an ambitious agenda that includes cutting poverty and hunger in half, ensuring that every boy and girl in the world has access to primary education, and halting the spread of AIDS -- all by 2015.

President Addresses United Nations High-Level Plenary Meeting
United Nations Headquarters
New York, New York
September 14, 2005


So if you are arguing against the Global Poverty Act - you are disagreeing with President Bush.

edit : I KNOW it's co-sponsored by Obama.

My reference was specifically to the G-8 conference - which Bush attended.

Read the quote from Bush again at the UN. This bill is specifically mandating something that PRESIDENT BUSH agrees with.

Capish ?
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 9
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:42:45 AM
MG... You keep saying Obama has nothing to do with it.

Obama introduced the bill. AND I QUOTE.

Mr. OBAMA (for himself, Mr. HAGEL, and Ms. CANTWELL) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations

THAT MEANS THIS IS OBAMA'S BABY. Get it?
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 10
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 6:53:09 AM
MG...

FIRST you quote TRUTH: The legislation neither authorizes nor obligates the federal government to spend more money...

THEN you quote: For the first time achieving one of the Millennium Development Goals will be included in U.S. law.

(((((...will be included in U.S. law.)))))

which is it going to be -- you can't tell the TRUTH both ways.

If anyone wants to read this for themselves go to this website and plug in the bill number (2433). There you will see for yourself and READ for yourself on government records that Obama introduced the bill.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:3:./temp/~c110Y8MUDD::
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 11
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:01:45 AM
Let me put this in simple terms.

The United States is spending more money than it earns. (government debt) (even if there wasn't a war we still wouldn't be able to ballance the budget)

The United States is borrowing money from China daily to stay afloat.

The United States can't afford to take care of it's own people.

This legislation, in effect, will be the United States borrowing money from China ('cause WE don't have it) to give to Africa.

We have a federal debt. We don't have the money.

We don't have the money for us.

We don't have the money for them.
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 12
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 7:12:05 AM
Obama could have just as easily introduced a bill for the citizens of THIS COUNTRY. That would have kept him consistent with his campaign promises.

He didn't.

He spent the time introducing a bill for someone else with our money.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 13
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 8:30:00 AM
Jafo,

I know what your problem is, you can't read.

Let's carefully go over this, point by point.

1) Bush was at the G-8 summit and 2005, and accepted the goals you initially referred to.

2) He stood up in the UN, again in 2005, and committed the country to the Millenium Act - as I posted.

3) That act requires certain things to be done, to comply with it.

4) The bill Obama co-sponsored does exactly that.

5) The Global Poverty Act passed out of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on July 31, 2007

Here are that commitee's members :


Majority Minority

* Howard Berman, Chairman, California
* Gary Ackerman, New York
* Eni Faleomavaega, American Samoa
* Donald M. Payne, New Jersey
* Brad Sherman, California
* Robert Wexler, Florida
* Eliot L. Engel, New York
* William Delahunt, Massachusetts
* Gregory W. Meeks, New York
* Diane Watson, California
* Adam Smith, Washington
* Russ Carnahan, Missouri
* Gene Green, Texas
* John S. Tanner, Tennessee
* Lynn Woolsey, California
* Sheila Jackson-Lee, Texas
* Joseph Crowley, New York
* Ruben Hinojosa, Texas
* David Wu, Oregon
* Brad Miller, North Carolina
* Linda Sanchez, California
* David Scott, Georgia
* Jim Costa, California
* Albio Sires, New Jersey
* Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona
* Ron Klein, Florida
* Barbara Lee, California



* Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Ranking Member, Florida
* Chris Smith, New Jersey
* Dan Burton, Indiana
* Elton Gallegly, California
* Dana Rohrabacher, California
* Donald Manzullo, Illinois
* Edward R. Royce, California
* Steve Chabot, Ohio
* Tom Tancredo, Colorado
* Ron Paul, Texas
* Jeff Flake, Arizona
* Mike Pence, Indiana
* Joe Wilson, South Carolina
* John Boozman, Arkansas
* J. Gresham Barrett, South Carolina
* Connie Mack IV, Florida
* Jeff Fortenberry, Nebraska
* Michael McCaul, Texas
* Ted Poe, Texas
* Bob Inglis, South Carolina
* Luis Fortuño, Puerto Rico
* Gus Bilirakis, Florida


Btw, Ron Paul was a member


....and was passed by a unanimous voice vote by the full House on September 25.

The breakdown of the House ?


202 Republicans 233 Democrats


202 Republicans voted FOR it, it was unanimous.

The bill was passed by unanimous consent by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 13, 2008.

It's members ?


Chairman
Joseph R. Biden


Ranking Member
Richard G. Lugar
Christopher J. Dodd
Connecticut

John F. Kerry
Massachusetts

Russell D. Feingold
Wisconsin

Barbara Boxer
California

Bill Nelson
Florida

Barack Obama
Illinois

Robert Menendez
New Jersey

Benjamin L. Cardin
Maryland

Robert P. Casey Jr.
Pennsylvania

Jim Webb
Virginia



Chuck Hagel
Nebraska

Norm Coleman
Minnesota

Bob Corker
Tennessee

George V. Voinovich
Ohio

Lisa Murkowski
Alaska

Jim DeMint
South Carolina

Johnny Isakson
Georgia

David Vitter
Louisiana

John Barrasso
Wyoming

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/about.html


Again, unanimous, and bi-partisan.

It passed in the Senate.

It meets the goals George Bush committed the USA to, under the Millennium Development Goals.


Joint Declaration

At the Millennium Summit in 2000 we declared we would spare no effort to achieve the seven key Millennium Development Goals.

Signatories

This declaration has been endorsed by:

* George W. Bush, President of the United States of America

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/mdg/declaration-heads-07.asp


Where does that 0.7 percent figure come from ?


What is the 0.7 commitment, and where did it come from?




The commitment to provide 0.7% of gross national product (GNP) as official development assistance was first made 35 years ago in a General Assembly resolution, but it has been reaffirmed repeatedly over the years, including at the 2002 global Financing for Development conference in Monterrey, Mexico. However, in 2004, total aid from the industrialized countries totaled just $78.6 billion —or about 0.25% of their collective GNP.

http://mirror.undp.org/unmillenniumproject/press/qa4_e.htm


And Bush's support there ?


On the other hand, I believe it is very significant, and we have talked about it again, to have this great drive that has been announced by President Bush at the Financing for Development Conference. And it's the purpose to try to increase important resources for countries that are not as developed, for poorer countries.

We have heard from many leaders present, many heads of state, who truly expressed this was welcome information, a welcome announcement. And, of course, same goes for us. We are not a country to receive the help, but we clearly understand that there are countries who require this help to combat poverty very close to us, such as the case of Central America.

So we hope that these additional funds, I repeat, have been very welcome, well-received by the community of smaller countries present here. This time these same resources also, part of them, to be used in these countries of Latin America or Central America.

This effort of what has seemed to be called the participation in the Millennium, the Challenge of the Millennium, is important for us. And we have verified this importance it has for the community of countries.

President Fox - Mexico
Press Conference
Office of the Press Secretary
Palacio de Gobierno, Monterrey, Mexico
March 22, 2002

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/prsrl/8927.htm


So now, after it's been passed by House Committee , the House Of Representatives, Congress, and based on something that President George Bush has committed the country to

1) By speaking at the UN supporting it
2) By assisting those extra funds mandated at the Financing for Development conference in 2002, where that 0.7 figure was agreed to.


Now, let me say a quick word about our concerns, having laid out what's so great in principle. We have three concerns. The first is about the funding, which is way below initial promises. I'm sure David will have more to say about that. But I would like to refer to a document that the two centers, the Center for Global Development and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, issued, which lays out the extent to which the amounts so far have fallen far short of the original promises which President Bush made at an international conference in 2002.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:rv-NscJCvh
AJ:www.cbpp.org/11-9-04intl-transcript.pdf+Bush+%2B+montera
y+conference+%2B+0.7&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=ca




There was an agreement in Monterey (Conference in Mexico), all of the advanced countries would give 0.7% of GDP…the United States is giving about 0.19%.


It's Obama's fault ?

It's EXACTLY what your current President said was important.
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 14
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 9:10:59 AM
DID I EVER SAY ANYWHERE THAT NO ONE ELSE IS RESPONSIBLE?

NOBODY comes out of this unscathed. (That's why in my original post I added the blurb about our current presidents involvement)

Not BUSH. Not the rest of the Senate (that VOTED). (I didn't see Clinton or McCain on that list you posted)

What I have said and continue to say is...

Obama has no right (nor anyone else) to stand in front of me offering to lead my country with promises to end hunger (in my country), end health care issues (in my country), end educational shortcomings (in my country) and end our financial woes overall (in my country) then turn around and do NOTHING (for my country) and be part and party (standing up as the representative to introduce the bill) to GIVE OUR MONEY AWAY TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND TURN A BLIND EYE TO OUR NEEDS.

I totally agree this isn't solely about Obama.

Shouldn't we be fixing our own problems here FIRST? Isn't that what Obama PERSONALLY promised us -- that he'd FIX OUR PROBLEMS HERE AT HOME?
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 15
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 10:19:38 AM
Obama didn't just "support" this.

Obama introduced this. As did Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington.

Senator Chuck Hagel was the Chief Operating Officer of the 1990 Economic Summit of Industrialized Nations (G-7 Summit)
http://hagel.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Biography.Home

Clinton didn't introduce it (although someone said she voted for it)

McCain didn't introduce it or vote for it (no disputes? yet.)

This brought on a lively discussion. Good. Whether you're ok with what's going on or not is your choice.

I don't DIG for this stuff just to bash Obama. I find this stuff... investigate... give links for you to make your own judgement. If you feel this is okee dokee then that's your opinion. For those who don't feel warm and fuzzy about it -- well, they have a right to their views also.

The information is out there. Do with it as you please.

Don't turn around and bash me because I bring up the subject.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 16
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History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/11/2008 11:55:48 AM

"I applaud my colleagues for unanimously supporting a bill that will aid the American people in that effort," Dr. Coburn said.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c/

Tom Coburn is the Republican senator for Oklahoma, so if a Republican senator says that a Democrat bill is unanimous, I think we can believe him. Now, I don't know if US politics is anything like UK politics, but if it is, then Republicans will vote against Democrat bills, just because Democrats proposed the bill. Democrats will vote against Republican bills, just because Republicans proposed the bill. Even if both Republicans and Democrats both want a bill passed, there will still be a minority of Republicans and Democrats who will oppose the bill, because they disagree with it, or because if doesn't benefit their constituents, even if it benefits the country as a whole. Unanimous votes are almost unheard of in politics. It's like saying that everyone on POF who posts on a particular thread all give the same answer. If it ever happens, and it is incredibly rare, you know the answer must be right. Whatever else you can say about this bill, no-one is politics disagrees with it.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated the bill would cost less than $1 million to implement.
http://www.bread.org/take-action/ol2008/gpa-fact-sheet.pdf

Now, the TOTAL outlays for the 2009 Fiscal Budget for the United States of America, according to the Executive Office of the President of the United States, is $3,107 billion dollars. That is over $3 trillion dollars.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/summarytables.html

So this would cost less than 1 in 30,000 of a cent in the dollar. Basically, for someone who earns $30,000 a year, this will cost him 1 cent. Now, I don't know about you, but if any program could DOUBLE your income just by charging 1 cent to a person who earns $30,000 a year, and far less to anyone who earns less than this, it's a steal by anyone's stretch of the imagination.

Imagine that you could double medicare, just by charging 1 cent extra a year, to each person who earns $30,000 a year. Who wouldn't take this up?

IF, and I stress IF, this bill works, there are no downsides. It's ridiculously cheap, even for administrative costs alone, and no-one disagrees with it, not even a sinlge Republican. I cannot see the downsides of this bill.

If Bush had proposed this bill, I would hail him as a genius, and I really want him out. I am not pro-Obama, but what can I say? If this thing works, he will have achieved what almost certainly will be the most successful political program of the last 200 years. If every bill was as cheap as this one, and had unanimous support like this one, US policy would be the best in the world by far, and countries would be praising the US from Beijing to Baghdad.

If you don't believe me, ask anyone who is an expert in politics about how many bills in the history of the world were unanimous and cost a third of a millionth of the country's budget. Watch them say it's impossible.

All I can say is that if I was an American, and I really didn't like Obama before, I would seriously consider voting for him. Anyone who proposes a bill like this must know a whole lot more about politics than almost anyone else.
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 17
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/12/2008 7:19:23 AM
Obama went to a muslim grade school when he was a child living in Indonesia. He also went to a catholic grade school when he was in Indonesia. Ages 6-10. Then was shipped back to the states to live with his grand parents. Those are the facts according to Obama in his FIRST book. It's an interesting read--and more candid--I might add and I encourage everyone to read it.

Now -- before you put words in my mouth -- let me say this about that...

Obama went to a muslim grade school. That does not make him muslim. (did you HEAR me say that Steven?) I fault the media for misleading the American public by insinuating that he IS muslim because he went as a young child. It's the media's fault for that misconception NOT MINE.

What I posted on this site is substantiated by government web sites.

People will believe what they want to believe. But reasonable people absorb information from reliable sources and make decisions based on that.

As for me saying that Obama has ties to Africa ... well... here's my substantiated proof. Obama is a 20 year member of Trinity United Church of Christ. Obama, being a member has bought into that church doctrine which says "unashamedly black and unapologetically christian with a NON-NEGOTIABLE COMMITMENT TO AFRICA." Is that the elusive "change" he's been skirting around? The church ten point doctrine doesn't say non-negotiable commitment to AMERICA. It doesn't even say a non-negotiable commitment to AFRICAN AMERICANS. it says AFRICA. (Last time I looked that's not around here). Read it for yourself.

His church website:
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Name calling and angry statements are irrational and disrespectful Steven. QUIT
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 18
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/12/2008 8:23:51 AM

Obama went to a muslim grade school. That does not make him muslim. (did you HEAR me say that Steven?) I fault the media for misleading the American public by insinuating that he IS muslim because he went as a young child. It's the media's fault for that misconception NOT MINE.


A Muslim school, you sure ?

Really sure ?

As sure as you were on the last one ?

What's this Muslim school actually like ?



Interviews by The Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it's a public and secular institution that has been open to students of all faiths since before the White House hopeful attended in the late 1960s.

"The allegations are completely baseless," said Akmad Solichin, the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1, who added, "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here ... it's a public school."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16813267/


He refers to it as a Muslim school, directly. Let's see why ?



“In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies,” Obama wrote. “My mother wasn’t overly concerned. ‘Be respectful,’ she’d say. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I would close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended. Just a parched old nun and 30 brown children, muttering words.”

“Dreams from My Father


He's also writing from memories of his childhood. He's an outsider, in a secular school (which has a koranic studies class) that has a mainly Muslim student body - ie a "Muslim" school.

His step father was a non-practicing Muslim, who ate bacon.



After his parents divorced, he lived from age six to 10 in Jakarta with his mother and Indonesian stepfather, a non-practicing Muslim described by neighbors as someone who hung prayer beads over his bed but enjoyed eating bacon - anathema to Islam.

In Jakarta from 1967 to 1971, from first through fourth grade, Obama's religious upbringing depended more on the practices of the schools he attended than on any decision by his non-practicing Christian mother or his non-practicing Muslim stepfather. While enrolled at a Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, for three years, the Chicago Tribune reported, Obama was required to pray as a Catholic - four times a day.

When he attended a public school, Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1, as a fourth grader during his last year in Indonesia, he learned about Islam for a compulsory two hours a week. This was because he was registered, by law, under his step-father's name as a Muslim. Whatever Islamic instruction he managed to absorb as a nine-year-old, he did so for only two hours a week - plus occasionally accompanying his step-father on a rare visit to a mosque.

It should also be pointed out that Obama's school was not the fundamentalist Islamic madrassa depicted in media reports, but a public school progressive enough for its women teachers to be allowed to wear miniskirts and ecumenical enough for pupils to be encouraged to celebrate Christmas.


Christmas and miniskirts ? Not quite the typical "Muslim school" that one would imagine, is it ?

Although listed as a Muslim in the Catholic school (due to his father's faith), they also made him pray as a Catholic four times a day - not something they would do to a Muslim child in such a country.



As for me saying that Obama has ties to Africa ... well... here's my substantiated proof. Obama is a 20 year member of Trinity United Church of Christ. Obama, being a member has bought into that church doctrine which says "unashamedly black and unapologetically christian with a NON-NEGOTIABLE COMMITMENT TO AFRICA." Is that the elusive "change" he's been skirting around? The church ten point doctrine doesn't say non-negotiable commitment to AMERICA. It doesn't even say a non-negotiable commitment to AFRICAN AMERICANS. it says AFRICA. (Last time I looked that's not around here). Read it for yourself.

His church website:
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm


And the words of a white man that has been to services there :



Here are the facts:

It is true that Trinity describes itself as "a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian" and which "does not apologize for its African roots." The church’s Web site specifies a commitment to Africa and to "historical education of African people in diaspora." The congregation is overwhelmingly black; few if any whites can be seen in the photographs and videos of the congregation posted on the church's Web site. But none of that makes the church "racist" or anti-American.


Prof. Martin E. Marty
And in fact, a professor of theology at the University of Chicago Divinity School, Martin E. Marty, wrote this in April 2007, rebutting Rush’s claims on Fox News:

Prof. Marty: To those in range of Chicago TV I'd recommend a watching of Trinity's Sunday services, and challenge you to find anything "cultic" or "sectarian" about them. More important, for Trinity, being "unashamedly black" does not mean being "anti-white." My wife and I on occasion attend, and, like all other non-blacks, are enthusiastically welcomed.

Trinity would not comment to us for this article. Rev. Wright, however, appeared on Fox's "Hannity and Colmes" on March 2, 2007, and responded at length to the claim made by Rush. He said in part:

Alan Colmes: I want the public to understand where your church is coming from, because you're being accused of being a black separatist church, and thus Obama is being accused by default of being a black separatist. Can you straighten that out for us, please?

Wright: OK. The African-centered point of view does not assume superiority, nor does it assume separatism. It assumes Africans speaking for themselves as subjects in history, not objects in history.

There's no question that Wright has been a controversial figure, a passionate advocate for black self-help and to some, a radical. Jason Byassee, in a lengthy article on the church published in Christian Century magazine, said, "There is no denying ... that a strand of radical black political theology influences Trinity." He added, "Conservatives may find the Africentric church too political, and liberals may squirm over its revivalist emotion." But he praised the church's success in growing to more than 8,000 members, making this black congregation the largest single church in a predominately white United Church of Christ denomination, saying "the black church continues to makes converts in unlikely places, reflecting a God who makes a way where there is no way."

Wherever we looked we found ample evidence that Obama's church is pro-black, but we found none to support a claim that it is anti-white. Calling it "racist" is, in our judgment, a falsehood.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html



So there you go.
 _JAFO_
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 19
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/12/2008 10:00:18 AM
The topic was about the Global Poverty Act & Obama.

Obama introduced The Global Poverty Act bill. He's running for President. That's the point.

Others are involved. Senator Hagel of Nebraska and Senator Cantwell of Washington were also involved in writing it.

Others were involved who voted for it. I also realize it's for political good will for all concerned.

The point I originally made was that Obama is running for President. He needs to walk the walk and talk the talk. From this bill I see he is not making an effort to help the needy people in this country but rather he spent the time and energy working with other interests in mind.

I made statements straight from Obama's first book regarding the muslim issue. He said it was muslim school. I said that doesn't make him a muslim. It's apparent to everyone and it was apparent to him when he said it. With your cutNpast apparently you agree with me. So what's the problem?

I made statements about Obama's church quoting straight from his church website in Chicago. http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

You cutNpaste from news stories... I gave direct quotes from original sources and provided the links. I fail to see what the argument is about. I fail to see why this has become personal between you and me, Montreal Guy.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 20
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/12/2008 6:44:58 PM

I fail to see why this has become personal between you and me, Montreal Guy.


It's not personal, at all.

Your initial post on this was written in such a way that set out to place all the responsibility for the Global Poverty Act on Obama, and that's quite clear to anyone reading the title of your thread, and your post.

What I did was to show that research shows it was not - and that it was an effort that fulfilled exactly what your government has committed itself to, and your President had committed your country to.

So really, your post should have been titled " The Global Poverty Act & Bush."

It wasn't.

You then additionally make a claim that Obama wants to deal with America's enemies - and your government, your current government, does this on a regular basis. It even pays men who , to a high probability, killed (or were involved in the killing) of American servicemen in Iraq. It's doing that now, as you read this.

And this causes you no concern.

You claim that Obama went to a Muslim school, which (when examined) falls apart as anything worthy of discussion. People have extensively examined this aspect of Obama's life, and we have information that this "Muslim" school seems to offer little for discussion in regards to Obama's qualifications for president, and was in fact a secular school, with some religious classes.

You then make claims about Trinity, and fail to look at the words of whites that went to that Church, and who participated in services as guests. They felt no threat while there.

Personal ?

Not at all.

I just refuse to let someone try and paint a picture of a man like, one designed to somehow cast doubts on him and his abilities , one done without any study of the statements made and their actual basis in fact to the discussion of the man, and one with little desire other than to disqualify him with a broad brush by efforts to paint him as something that he is not.

If he is doing things that others are doing, like supporting the Global Poverty Act, and the negotiating with America's enemies - then if you are upset by him, you should be even more upset with your current president.

And you aren't.

Which tells me something, and should tell everyone something, about your perception of the man - and for your reasons for posting.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 21
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/13/2008 6:56:05 AM

Bush is not running for President Obama is.


Ahhh....but if one man does something as President, it's accepted.

Another is accused of it while running for President - and it's morally wrong.

Again, let's change some words - and see what happens.


Obamas church is admittedly Israelcentric,they are concerned with the Jewish Community , why should Christians feel a threat if they go there? you also failed to mention the man you quoted was a divinity professor at the University of Chicago....
Is his church Jewish ? this is a yes or no question...

Does his church express a commitment to Israel ?Yes or no....

Does the Global Poverty act assist some countries in Israel ? Yes or no...
( analogy based on the amount of money that goes to Israel today, as aid.)


Would you have posted that post, with the alterations I made, for a Jewish candidate ?

Yes or no ?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 22
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/13/2008 8:08:23 AM

MG-First off there is not a Jewish candidate .Correct me when the last one was .Feel free to do so. Second Israel is is great buffer for the USA right in the heart of the action . In the frying pan and on the fire .

Now ask yourself this; If there was a Jewish candidate..............would you go all out promoting him as you are doing for Obama and laying on a guilt trip in the process ?


Well, the essential question remains the same.

Suddenly, people are sensitive to the alteration of one word.

They claim misdirection and overwhelming of the opposition.

They claim Bush isn't a part of it ( but we are talking about a President, and a candidate for that position) doing the same thing - and being quite differently judged by it.

If Lieberman was running for President, would you say any of this ?

Oh it's " laying on a guilt trip" , is it ? Funny how one simple alteration makes people so sensitive, isn't it ?

If a Jewish Republican was running on a platform like Obama's , I'd do the same thing. If he had the abilities I see in Obama, I'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

If he was purple, yellow , or orange - I 'd do the same thing.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 23
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:20:55 AM
And if you make the same switch ?


1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Jewish Community
3. Commitment to the Jewish Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Jewish Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Jewsih Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Jewish leadership who espouse and embrace the Jewish Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Jewish Value System.”


OK, so let's take a look at Lieberman's synagogue, Kesher Israel.


Welcome to the Kesher Israel Web Page. You have reached a window to perhaps the most unique synagogue in America. Kesher Israel is located in downtown Washington, DC, some 14 blocks from the White House, and within 2 miles (therefore, walking distance) of the Capitol.

Kesher is a modern Orthodox synagogue, and it is the only synagogue in the downtown area in the District of Columbia. As such, visitors to the congregation range from those with traditional yearnings, to those who are fully observant. On any given Shabbat, participants in our prayers can range from Chassidic Rabbis, to people with limited Jewish backgrounds.

We also get our share of famous visitors. Among then are Moshe Dayan and Ezer Weizman during the Camp David talks. So too various members of today's Knesset and many of the most prominent contemporary Jewish religious and secular leaders drop in on at Kesher from time to time.

The membership too is unique, and includes a Senator, a Congressman, a significant number of Ambassadors, both to and from the United States, the Secretary of Agriculture, and several distinguished authors. Many of the members hold fascinating positions in government, or in other important national and international organizations.

http://kesher.org/kesher/index.html


It's bylaws ?


SECTION 1: Any adult person of the Jewish faith shall be eligible for membership in the Congregation, except that no person shall be eligible for membership who is married to a person not of the Jewish faith. Any member who may enter into such a marriage shall forfeit his or her membership in the Congregation. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, every person is welcome to attend services of the Congregation.

http://kesher.org/kesher/insidekesher/KIbylaws.pdf


Oh oh.....they only accept Jews as members - but other CAN attend.

Unless they marry a non-Jew - then they get kicked out.


ARTICLE IV - CEMETERY PRIVILEGES
SECTION 1: Any person of the Jewish faith may be buried in the Congregational cemetery. All burials therein shall be conducted in accordance with accepted Orthodox rituals.


Wow. Unless you are a Jew, forget burial there - and you only can have an "accepted" Orthodox service.


ARTICLE XI - DEFINITIONS
SECTION 1: A person of the Jewish faith shall mean anyone who is either born of a mother of the Jewish faith or is converted in accordance with traditional Orthodox Rabbinic authorities.


Hmm.... Unless you are born a Jew, or are converted by a "traditional Orthodox Rabbi" , sorry......hear you knocking but you can't come in...as a member.


Official Rules and Regulations for
Iron Kishke: The Kesher Israel Cholent Cookoff

***All proceeds from this event will be donated to Meir Panim, a hunger relief organization in Israel. (For more information on Meir Panim, see their website at http://www.mifalchaim.org/eng/main.htm) ***


Wow.... collecting money for a foreign country....how dare they ?

A note, in a survey they post there :


I am interested in the principles of Judaism, and their application to contemporary problems, both in Israel and in the Diaspora. I am disappointed that the synagogue has no forum in which these issues are discussed - the email site seems to be confined t social matters - which are indubitably important - and to support of Israeli, environmental, and other "politically correct" activities. I realize that discussion of ethical issues (e.g. "the Wall", or the appropriateness of the Kol Nidrei declaration) could be divisive, but fear that concentration on ritualistic issues could lead to the
moral bankruptcy of the "contemporary orthodox".


Sounds "Israelicentric" , to me.

{quote]Kesher Israel Green Group
Learn Torah
Appreciate Nature
Protect the Environment

We are committed to educating our community and serving as a model for other communities for Jewish environmental learning and action within the Orthodox world.
Please browse our site to read articles and text studies by Orthodox Jewish authors about the importance of protecting the environment, learn about the events we've planned to educate and mobilize our community, and see photos of us on our educational outings.
Connections

The Kesher Israel Green Group is proud to partner with Canfei Nesharim, an organization working to educate about the importance of protecting the environment from a Torah perspective.

Kesher Israel has committed to raise $25,000 over three years to support the Alexander River in Israel, in partnership with the Jewish National Fund. The Green Group is proud to support this commitment by coordinating the campaign.

Oh oh...more of the same.



So far from this being a critique in any way of Kesher Israel and what it does , it's done to show that some of the things that are being discussed here in regards to Trinity regularly seem to go on in other religious establishments , as well.

Without any problems from anyone.

Quite ironically, Trinity Church has white members.

Kesher Israel has NO non-Jewish members, and bars ones who marry non-Jews.


I have been a member of Trinity, a church with an almost entirely African-American congregation, for more than 25 years. I am, however, a white male. From a decidedly different perspective than most Trinitarians, I have heard Wright preach about racial inequality many times, in unvarnished and passionate terms.

I do have a bit of personal context. About 26 years ago, I became engaged to my wife, an African-American. She was at that time and remains a member of Trinity. Somewhere between the ring and the altar, my wife had second thoughts and broke off the engagement. Her decision was grounded in race...

The words of William A. Von Hoene Jr.


Had the same situation occurred at Kesher Israel , such a man could visit - but never be a member.


Of note, Trinity’s membership has included, and currently includes some white members. One of those white members was the former UCC Illinois Conference Minister, Jane Fisler Hoffman, who has taken another denominational post in California. A white male member of more than 20 years, William A.Von Hoene Jr., wrote compellingly in a March 26, 2008 editorial for the Chicago Tribune of how Dr. Wright counseled his African-American wife (then his fiancée) for four hours, trying to get her to stick to her original decision to marry Von Hoene after Dr. Wright learned she planned to back out of the marriage because he is white.

Trinity is not monolithic in terms of race or culture. It has members that are Latina/Latino, that are Spanish-speaking, French-speaking, and that are from many countries, including Columbia, France, Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Sudan and England. It is perhaps one of the most diverse congregations in the country.

http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/04/
rev-dr-brenda-eatman-aghahowa-barbara.html


So we have one church that has white members, at least one who has worshiped there twenty years.

Kesher Israel has never had a non-Jewish member.

Dr Wright, that vicious racist actually counseled that twenty year member's black wife to marry him - even though he was white.

If a rabbi at Kesher Israel had done that, and succeeded , he would have had to expel both of them as members - by the rules of the synagogue.

So tell me again, why is Trinity portrayed as racist - and yet this type of action by Kesher Israel is totally acceptable ?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 24
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/13/2008 9:39:37 AM
In both cases you try to focus on how bad Obama is, and others bear none of the same scrutiny for doing pretty much the same thing.

The Global Poverty Act was something that hundreds of people worked on and voted on, and was based on something the country was committed to do.

Trinity displays far more open doors to non-blacks than synagogues (or mosques) do for members outside their religion.



.his church is Afro-centric...that he has devoted his entire career to one segment of our society.


Most synagogues ( or mosques) are indeed devoted to one segment of society, and are typically oriented towards foreign countries, like Israel.

Pot meet kettle.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 25
view profile
History
The Global Poverty Act & Obama
Posted: 5/13/2008 10:47:27 AM

$845 billion over the next dozen or so years


That's the cost, as estimated.

80 billion a year (roughly).

Interest on the American debt (2006 figure) , was 406 Billion . That money does ZERO good, in terms of productive use.

http://www.federalbudget.com/



Total Outlays (Federal Funds): $2,650 billion
MILITARY: 54% and $1,449 billion
NON-MILITARY: 46% and $1,210 billion

Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2009.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm


The Iraq war costs look like they will far surpass a trillion.

With the right economic orientation, that 80 billion would be rather easy to achieve - and painless. It's the same percentage of the overall economy that other nations have agreed to support. I'd also make sure that those other nations, including my own, would be held to it without mercy.

We either are all in this together , as agreed, or we are not.
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