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 Author Thread: Does this recent experiment end once and for all the debate on who gets more messages?
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 14 (view)
Does this recent experiment end once and for all the debate on who gets more messages?
Posted: 9/3/2018 1:18:22 PM
I think this is just one more thing that adds fuel to the fire, but there is plenty of overwhelming evidence that women get most of the messages. The one that stands out the most is this one:

The most unattractive woman got as many messages as the second most attractive man.
The second most unattractive woman got almost as many messages as all the men combined.

Anyone remember the pig woman experiment? Some men have no standards.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 3 (view)
2017 Never Married & Married People Per Age Group (Canadian Stats)
Posted: 9/3/2018 12:52:28 PM

when the society returns back to the beautiful Christian values of marriage

So....never. Got it
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 15 (view)
Do men and women still speak the same language?
Posted: 9/3/2018 12:48:04 PM

Or do women have a hard time committing to texting or even a phone chat?

"The medium is the message" is term growing in popularity. The fact that she's not committing to text/phone conversation is her telling you that you're low on her list of priorities. Women make time for those they are interested in. There is no "hard time" with any of it.

Why do men have to start and carry on the conversations and all I seem to get in most cases is yes no answers.

Men have to because women by and large have no backbones when it comes to initiating conversation. Moreover, women DON'T HAVE TO. Many men are willing to put forth that effort. What women is going to stick her neck out for an unknown, when they already know that her inbox is filled with interested suitors? The cultural norm is still that men approach. That paradigm isn't going to shift any time soon (though the #metoo movement has been making some strides in male apprehension towards courting).

A better way to create an engagement is to go outside and meet people in person. The once-removed aspect of hiding behind a screen coupled with the abundance mentality of the next option being one click away has been doing a great job of watering down the dating scene.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 18 (view)
Now you're done with the jerks?
Posted: 8/2/2016 7:14:53 AM

that now suddenly, when they're in their 30s, with a couple kids, a crappy job, now they want a guy like me.... Why?

It's because they've "had their fun" and you're not the fun guy. You're the stable one for settling down with. You're the "husband material." After they've used their best years partying and getting banged by every d-bag they can stand, and done all their partying and whatnot, you're the one that gets to rescue them from their decade of terrible relationship decisions. You get the older, slightly less fun, slightly more jaded version of them. And, of course, all of a sudden she's "not a sexual person," or at least not with you. You get to have starfish duty-sex once a month.

I also wanted to highlight the top comment in the thread you linked:

Your credit history tells me how good you are at managing your money, your medical history tells me how healthy you are, your driving history tells me how good of a driver you are, yet your relationship history can be just wiped clean?

My suggestion to you is to not be altruistic with these older women. You have to be selfish with what you want. At the end of the day "giving her a chance" isn't the determining factor in whether or not YOU are happy with your relationships. You have to recognize your worth, and then find a woman that fits the bill for what you're looking for.

One last thing:

spends so much time in the gym that he starves his brain of oxygen and is just completely dumb

Please stop with this tired trope. There's no correlation between going to the gym regularly and being dumb. Maybe YOU should go to the gym more often, the results you get might surprise you. Women like men that are fit, despite this whole Body Positive Movement and claims that the Dad Bod is the new thing, you will get farther ahead if you look like a Calvin Klein model rather than a desk jockey.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 67 (view)
Online dating women have the upper hand
Posted: 11/21/2015 11:01:46 PM

So you are a young girl and super hot. Eventually you will get fvcked by one of these young guys that is hot, but next week he is into someone else. There are exceptions to the rule. Of course, but they are not a lot.

Unless he's willing to rape her, his ability to **** her hinges on her willingness to give him access to her vagina. Maybe one or two men will get lucky, but once she's "tired of playing games," the vetting process will be pretty extensive. So, him being hot will not override her desire to not be pumped and dumped.

So, in the next tier are the fvcking ass wipes that throw money at women and they the want to fvck them.
Then there are the nice guys, they are idiots as well, but instead of money, they have time.

These men both fall under the same category of trying to sell of their resources for affection. Women are more likely to use these men because they are trying to negotiate their attraction, which you simply can't do. A woman is either hot for you or she isn't. Appealing to reason is going to get you starfish duty-sex once a month from a woman what is probably going to dump you in 6 months or less.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 60 (view)
Online dating women have the upper hand
Posted: 11/21/2015 5:12:49 PM

1: Single men over 40 who are handsome, charming, employed and solvent have it the best.
2: Young, pretty women are second.
3: Older women next.
4: Then young men
5: Anyone fat or with lousy photos
6. MGTOW or people who whine or have their profile full of negativity

Young pretty women are above middle aged/established men. Hands down. They have the pick of the litter and have the liberty of being as choosy as they want to be and actually have success with their dating.

I would also put young men over older women. The trend seems to be that women in their 30s/40s complain that they can't find men their age that are willing to date them.

6. MGTOW is such a nonissue because any demographic of men can fall in line with MGTOW. In general, they are anti-marriage, not anti-dating as a whole. I'm not sure where you get the "whining" thing from, but I don't really read men's profiles. If you're talking about the men that do it on the forums, that really has no bearing on anything. These forums are obsessed with the Just World Fallacy that assumes that just because someone has a bad attitude that they will be unsuccessful with dating. It's like they completely ignore how toxic people (up to and including serial killers) can still pair bond.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 152 (view)
Are men on here really interested in marriage
Posted: 11/15/2015 8:46:43 PM
I certainly am interested in pair-bonding.

Any man that is seriously considering getting legally married with the current family law system and divorce rate = stupid.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 37 (view)
do woman mind if you aproach them to say hi in a supermarket?
Posted: 11/5/2015 9:37:13 PM
Opportunity is fleeting. You might see her regularly, but during all that time that you don't see her, she may be interacting with men who strike her interest due to timing and actually deciding to make a move. Don't drag this out. You make a move so you can stop wondering.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 16 (view)
Why do us men even bother at this point? Let us withdraw.
Posted: 11/5/2015 9:33:05 PM

Women, congratulations, you have won. I applaud you. You are better than us men in every way.

Pfff...hardly. The greats when it comes to just about every aspect of anything to do with humans are men.

Sounds to me like you're dealing with a bit of what the red pill community would call the "Anger Phase." It will pass in due time. I suggest you look into a Youtubers named Spetsnaz, Barbarossa, and Stardusk. Between the 3 of them, there's a wealth of information to help you work through your internal struggles and to get a grasp of moving forward. Society (at least in the states) has been steadily going down the drain, and you need to know how to weather the storm.

I can understand your frustration, but drop the defeatist mentality before you off yourself.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 50 (view)
I used to be a solid 8 and then I turned 30!
Posted: 9/3/2015 10:40:55 PM

I used to be a solid 8 and then I turned 30!

I'm assuming that you think that you "value" goes down. As a man your value continues to go up so long as your stay fit and you're financially responsible. Women are looking for things like maturity and stability when they are trying to find someone long term. Those things aren't so commonly found in a dude in his early/mid 20s.

Looks do have importance, but even then, if you look at a lot of men, they really became distinguished when they got some "salt and pepper" Check out the list of People Magazine's Sexiest men alive. 3 out of 29 of them were under the age of 30 when they were nominated.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 43 (view)
What are men in their 40's looking for
Posted: 8/6/2015 5:49:38 PM

What are men in their 40's looking for?

Women in their 20s and 30s.

I am a woman who has all her little ducks in a row

You'd be surprised how -little- men care about this.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 44 (view)
Paying big money on dating sites with little result....
Posted: 8/5/2015 4:25:38 PM
The odds are stacked against you. And it's pretty much par for the course that you were essentially told to stop whining. Additionally, people on here seem to have this sort of "just world" fantasy where if you voice your discontent on the forums, then apparently your "bad attitude" shines through your profile and repulses the women you're looking to date. Based on how many times I've been asked questioned that could have been answered by actually -reading- my profile, I'm pretty sure that most women just skim anyway.

Check out this social experiment that a man did on .

As you can see, even the most attractive men don't exactly have a myriad of women trying to get their attention. Generally speaking, men still have to pursue if they want to make the online dating work. Meanwhile, women have the luxury of sitting back and choosing from the men that message them. I'm sure that there is a lot of crap to filter through, but at least they know beforehand that a man is interested. Being the pursuer is basically just taking shots in the dark. That's one of the reasons why so many men just copy/paste messages.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 24 (view)
The MOSEKI Syndrome...
Posted: 7/17/2015 10:58:28 AM

Oh, it was MOSEKI that did in my last relationship. The order was reversed though KI SE MO.

Jeez man. I'm glad you got out of that. Hopefully you did it in style. I would personally would have sent them on a weekend camping trip or something and then packed all my stuff and disappeared.

As far as my relationships, I would definitely say the sex part is huge, but it would be seconded by lack of communication. Most of my friends that have been in in LTRs that fell apart though, I would definitely attribute it to the Money and/or Sex.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 134 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Datinguite
Posted: 11/30/2014 4:01:42 PM

I'm not the one who needs a break. I'm not on here 24/7 whining and b@tching about why I cant get dates

I'm not sure why you continue to come back if you're tired of all the "whining, b!tching." Moreover, who is spending 24/7 (or anywhere near that) doing all of this whining and b!tching? And where did you make the connection that "having frustrations" directly translated to "can't get dates?"

Plus, coming on here to "seek solutions" by panning women is a laugh riot of a solution.

Who is seeking out solutions by panning women?

But still, you are groveling around complaining and sniveling like an old man who didn't get a second helping of pudding.
I would expect you to be long over that. yet still, here you are, unable to *resist* sockin' it to us.
Go find your solutions, and leave us alone. We can't help you with your problem.

So much venom for no apparent reason. And all of the assumptions that go along with them are oh so charming. I guess when all else fails, throw around some shaming language with followed by a GTFO.

Hmm, loads of rocks being thrown here.

Well, that's what you're supposed to do. "Boys are stupid" after all.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 128 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Datinguite
Posted: 11/30/2014 12:39:55 PM

It would be nice to finally hear all the b@tching stop, and see men become more proactive finding their own answers.

Cultural shifts take a long time, but you're essentially talking about MGTOW, which is one of the subsections of the manosphere. Similar concepts being "Grass Eaters" and "Going Galt."

Perhaps you should consider taking a break from the forums and/or dating sphere. People are generally going to complain about their problems and search for solutions to them. I also don't see what's so bad about seeking help with issues, or is that not proactive enough for your liking?
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 110 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Datinguite
Posted: 11/29/2014 2:02:52 PM

Both genders get frustrated w/ eachother

And they are often different frustrations that are handled in different ways. I know it's a crazy idea to think about.

Unless you are Markus or a moderator, it's not your place to censor my posts or anyone else's.

There's a difference between censoring someone and pointing out that what they said is irrelevant to the current discussion.

I'm probably old enough to be your mother.

Which, to me, means what?

There that was specific to men. Is that better?

Indeed. I think that's one of the reasons why I don't really frequent these forums, aside from the hashed and rehashed talking points, something as simple as "staying on topic" is so problematic. But I digress.....
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 104 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Dating
Posted: 11/29/2014 10:51:11 AM

I'll see your link and raise you two of my silly!

I know right?! Having gathered data to back your claim is such a silly way to have a discussion.

Both genders are frustrated at times.

And this particular thread is talking about men's frustrations with dating. I'm sure you're intellectually honest enough to acknowledge that men's frustrations differ from women's frustrations. That being despite the fact that you blatantly downplayed it in your post. But who am I kidding? If men talk about their problems, that obviously means that women must dismiss/marginalize said problems by trying to talk about theirs instead. Go figure.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 101 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Dating
Posted: 11/29/2014 9:18:15 AM
I guess you're just going to completely ignore that this is called "Men's frustrations with online dating." I also see that you're going to ignore the links I posted. But thanks anyway.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 99 (view)
Men's Frustrations in Online Dating
Posted: 11/28/2014 9:34:15 PM
You want to see the frustration that men face with online dating? Check out this article:


The women that men find attractive are so flooded with emails that they essentially get pick of the litter, while men just continue to cast their line into the abyss. Even the "objectively" unattractive women are on par as far as messages received with the more attractive men. Men have to be very proactive on a dating site. Otherwise they're going to see weeks/months without being contacted. If a man is an aesthetically rudderless "regular guy," he's largely wasting his time.

Then there's this article:


So women find 80% of men to be below average in the scale of attractiveness. Which, IMHO, suggests that there is a pretty skewed expectation of what they think is in their league as well as what their standards are based off of. I don't think I should -have- to say this, but just to cover my bases, obviously there's more to decent relationships than just looks. Looks, however are a what get your foot in the door, especially when the next person is just a mouse-click away.

On top of all that, it seems like most women (outside of the lady forumites) put dismally little effort into creating a profile. They are so bland and cookie cutter that one could easily be replaced with another. Moreover, although the paradigm is shifting, internet dating is still seen as a “creepy” place to meet loser people.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 82 (view)
Im 40, he's 27
Posted: 6/21/2014 9:50:52 PM
He's gonna smash until he finds a nice 22 year old to get with. All you are is something to hold him over during his dry spell. You're deluding yourself if you think it will last.

The Jedi mind tricks are strong with this one.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 24 (view)
How long should a widow/widower wait after the death of their spouse before dating?
Posted: 4/14/2014 11:38:53 PM
Exactly 702 days.
Add 25 days for each year of marriage past the 10 year mark.
Also add 50 days for each child parented.

I'm currently working on a peer-reviewed article that details this algorithm.

Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 1210 (view)
what is everyones opin on tattoos?
Posted: 4/14/2014 11:33:53 PM

You're paying some random dude hundreds of dollars to use your body as a coloring book.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 113 (view)
Is this true:basically men want a sexy woman/women want a successful man?
Posted: 1/11/2014 5:47:57 AM
Women: Looking for the richest men they can attract

Men: Looking for the hottest women they can afford.

The rest is just details.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 54 (view)
Dating Younger Women: Maybe It's Not A Great Idea
Posted: 9/12/2013 12:16:23 AM
What difference does it make their staying power? For models, the mass majority of them end their careers around 25. I'm just addressing the common defense of not dating younger women because of a lack of maturity. Well, the trend is still that men will go for young(er) women regardless.

Women are valued for youth, beauty, and chastity.
Men are valued for wealth, power, and influence.

I'm not sure what you are bringing up the man's schedule when we are looking at the merits/pitfalls of dating different women. If anything you are just furthering my point. If a man has a busy schedule, he is going to have a hard time coordinating things if the woman also has a busy schedule.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 51 (view)
Dating Younger Women: Maybe It's Not A Great Idea
Posted: 9/11/2013 9:36:55 AM

Trust me on this....Hugh Hefner wouldn't be Hugh Hefner if it wasn't for the millions. I've met the man and contracted with Playboy for 10 years. Super nice guy no doubt and the man sends me a Christmas card every year. But I can assure you that his ladies at the mansion aren't there for the old age wisdom aspect. :)

Omg….no. You’re kidding. You mean to say that tons of young women aren’t gagging for his mummified liver spotted physique and droopy older man boobies and that enticing way he speaks like he’s a cow chewing cud so his dentures don’t slip??! I am truly mortified by this revelation and doubt life will ever be the same again.

What I think -should- be taken away from Hefner is the fact that when men have such options, they go for the hot young women. Jason Statham got engaged to a 26 year old model. James Woods dumped his 26 year old girlfriend for a 20 year old.

Even social media backs such things. Look at ages that some of our more popular models when they got started:

Heidi Klum – 19
Adriana Lima – 15
Claudia Schiffer – 17
Naomi Campbell – 15
Cindy Crawford – 17

Fewer sexual partners, body less damaged, less jaded/bitter from past life experiences, more energy, more feminine.

Based on my anecdotal evidence, "more mature" simply means more to complain about. It also translates to a busier schedule and just less availability to interact. No bueno.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 48 (view)
Girlfriend of 2 years went out with another guy dont know if she cheated
Posted: 9/2/2013 8:04:00 PM
Is there anyway of still saving this relationship?

Your relationship will be just fine if you are ok with having the smell of his c*ck on her breath.

I'm sure she -does- want to keep you around. She wants the stability/consistency that you provide for her while she can romp around with new guys that "didn't mean anything" or "one thing led to another" or "I was really drunk and it was just the one time, so it doesn't count."

Just don't freak out too much when you find NSFW pics/video on her phone.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 49 (view)
Q for all single mums
Posted: 8/27/2013 6:44:33 AM

Most of the women I know only do this when they really don't want to date the guy they're with.

I don't think you follow. Things have to be accounted for seeing how one party has a child. Working around the child's needs is the big issue. Can't exactly go to a bar if mom doesn't have a sitter, and that also means that you can't stay out later. Want to live in a certain part of town? No decent schools are in that district. Want to spontaneously fvck in the middle of the living room on a nice Sunday afternoon? Ha, good luck with that. The list goes on and on. It's a lot of compromising for the childless party.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 46 (view)
Q for all single mums
Posted: 8/24/2013 4:19:21 AM
One big issue when it came to dating single mothers is that her decisions were normally the final decision regarding just about everything. Whether it's where to live, to what activities to do, to when it's even possible to meet up and/or have sex, she isn't the one that has to be flexible even remotely as much as he does.

Of course the biggest fear any man should have is the psychological parent doctrine, equitable paternity, in loco parentis, etc. The names vary but they all basically state that creating a relationship with the child and "acting as a parent" can put a man on the hook for child support in the event that the relationship dissolves. So even legally, the odds are stacked against men wanting to open up their dating pool to single mothers.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 32 (view)
25 and lacking experience
Posted: 8/21/2013 3:38:52 AM
Learning game is just fine. As some some PUAs (i don't recall their names) mentioned on random daytime TV talk show, there's nothing interesting about the typical "what's your name? how are you doing? where do you work? what do you like to do?" interview mode of meeting someone. If you take these men's stuff verbatim (especially anything out of The Game or The Mystery Method) then you're not going to have a very good success rate. The general premise of game is to stand out from all the other confident men that are wearing square-toes, some nice Diesels, and a button-up.

Kezia Noble, a female coach that works with the PUA community, even states, "The Nice Guy = bland, forgettable, and replaceable. If you don't consider yourself that, then why are you marketing yourself like that?"

Women are still pretty passive about dating. If you decide that you're not going to do any approaching, then it's going to be quite some time before a woman of interest crosses your path.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 98 (view)
Sloppy Seconds: Acceptable or no? For older daters.
Posted: 8/15/2013 3:32:03 AM

Very true, but many women seem to do this and see nothing wrong w/it, yet if a man did it to them ,they're all butthurt.

I never really understood the hamster logic where being honest is somehow redeeming when you're putting the person down. I don't care how it's sugar coated, she is telling this dude that he's being put on the backburner because she has a better option that she would rather pursue.

So you're a grown man looking for a relationship with a "vagina off the assembly line?"

As long as it's legal, what do you care?
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 31 (view)
Would you have children with someone you wouldn't have a longterm relationship with?
Posted: 8/9/2013 10:58:45 AM
It does take two in order to conceive. However, it only takes 1 to determine whether or not it comes to term.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 56 (view)
POF Profile Translations
Posted: 8/4/2013 7:51:22 AM

Well, what I think the OP could have been thinking:

1. He/She is too picky.....and so choosy that none could have met his/her ideal as a partner. No one can be on pedestal, ya know.
2. He/She is a player or a commitment phobic.
3. May be he/she is so lousy in bed and no one wants to keep as a sexual partner.
4. May he/she has a mental defective, or physical defective, may be both physical and mental defective.
5.Other......that is not marriage material.
6. He realizes how sh*tty the institution of marriage is, and has seen how much crap his married/divorced friends put themselves through when it would have been much easier to just break up. So he decides to forego such an archaic and outdated practice.


Genuine, unique, driven, goal oriented, etc: words that sound nice but really don't mean anything. Usually just filler because the person doesn't have the capacity/attention span to write about....the subject they should know the most about.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 23 (view)
Friend zone
Posted: 7/5/2013 11:45:51 AM

Bet'cha it's written by a guy, though, since it's liberally sprinkled with assumptions about how women behave, as if we're some kind of Borg collective.

If it were written by a woman, would it really make any difference?

Opposites may attract, but it's been proven that relationships based on similarities are more stable and long lasting than those based on differences.

From the sounds of it, this guy has plenty of similarities, and has probably aligned his thinking/behavior with her imperative in several ways. Of course, we'd need more input than the OP has given. Regardless, so far it's amounted to 7 years of disappointment.

According to a lot of men (on these forums) men don't want to marry women, either.


Every living thing in the world does this.

Yes, indeed (ad populum btw), and that's the problem in this situation. Obviously what he's been doing for the past 7 years isn't working. He either needs to find a new woman to chase after of go about this whole thing in a different manner. Putting himself through more years of this emotional battering with a woman who clearly show no interest in an intimate relationship is not doing himself any favors.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 21 (view)
Friend zone
Posted: 7/5/2013 9:47:30 AM
Interesting article on Beta Game for you to read over.

Beta male game focuses primarily on identifying and assimilating themselves to be more like the women they hope to connect with, but it goes further than this. The methodology dictates that the Beta be perceived as being unique (or at least set apart) from the more “common” Alpha males whom his desired women naturally prefer. This is the beginning of the “not-like-other-guys” mental schema he hopes to evoke in his idealized woman.

Due to his inability to compete with an Alpha competitor in the physical, he must fight a psychological battle on his own terms. This involves convincing his target that her best parental investment should be with him (as per her stated requirements) as he more closely embodies her long term prerequisites. The Beta likens himself to her (and women in general) in an effort to maximize his compatibility and familiarity with her and the feminine.

This identification process is then further reinforced through the feminine social conventions he subscribes to. Feminine society (both beta men and women) rewards him for more closely assimilating its ideal – be more like an archetypal woman; sensitive, empathic, emotional, security-seeking, etc.. And not only this, but take de facto feminine offense when presented with anything to the contrary of a female-positive perspective. Lift women up, become less so they become more, and in reciprocation she’s more apt to breed with the Beta.

That’s the principle, not necessarily the reality. In some ways it’s a Cap'n Save a Ho mentality written on a grand scale. The fallacy in this of course is that like should attract like. They fail to understand that opposites attract, and most women don't want to marry other women, least of all a carbon copy of herself.

When presented with a competitor of superior status, both sex’s innate, subconscious reaction is to disqualify that competitor from breeding in as expedient a method as possible. For animals this usually involves some kind of courtship performance or outright competitive hostility. And while the same could be said for human beings, our natural social impulse requires we take a bit more tact. “Look at that girl, she must be a slut to wear / act like that”, or “Yeah, he’s pretty good looking, but guys like that are usually fags” are an example of the standard social weapons people use to disqualify their respective sex. Disqualify the competitor on the most base level – question their sexuality. Literally cast doubt on competitor’s sexual fitness to breed with potential mates.

While most men (Alpha or Beta) will make similar attempts to disqualify, the Beta’s methodology ties back into his need for feminine identification in his disqualifying a competitor. Essentially he relies on feminine ways of disqualification by drawing upon his likeness to the women he hopes to emulate (thus furthering potential attraction as he thinks). The competitor may not be gay, but he must be cast as inferior to himself due to his competitor’s inability (or lessened ability) to identify and empathize with his desired female.

With Alpha competitors, the field has already been plowed for him by feminine social conventions, all he need do is plant the seeds. The fact that the Alpha tends to embody the masculine opposite of what he’s embraced also feeds this drive. Women aren't attracted to the macho tough guy, they want a man who’s kind and thoughtful; a good listener. So the natural recourse is to amplify this disparity – he’s a 1950′s neanderthal throwback, he’s “bitter”, he’s a misogynist, he’s a child in a man’s body with a fragile ego only interested in fvcking women and moving on. He’s unlike anything on women’s collective stated list of prerequisites for an acceptable male. He must be ridiculed – as all women ridicule – for his selfish hyper-masculinity.

Furthermore, the Beta needs to make the Alpha seem common, while making himself seem unique. In order to effectively AMOG an Alpha, the Beta has to show his empathy for the feminine, and she must appreciate it or it’s been all for nothing (which it usually is). Not only is this an ego preservation mechanism, but it’s also perceived as a tool for achieving the desired sexual reciprocation / appreciation he desires.

All of this really just scratches the surface of how Beat game has evolved. Most of what I've gone into here, and primarily the feminine identity association, become ego-invested and internalized over the course of a lifetime. It gets to the point that under the auspices of relative anonymity (like the internet) that the Beta will still cling to his mental model, even in the face of very rational, empirical evidence to the contrary, for no other reason than that a woman, a potential mate with whom he could identify, might read his post and may become attracted to him. The Game is never dropped for him, even in light of proving his errors. Beta game is like the boy who decides to play on the girls team when a boys vs. girls kick ball game is started. He thinks it will endear himself to them, when all it really does is make him another girlfriend to giggle with.

Everyone has a Game in some respect. We don't live in a vacuum, our ideas about seduction (in whatever form) is influenced and / or learned externally. The validity of that Game may be more or less effective, but at some point a man is going to adapt to a methodology of seduction as per his conditions and environment warrant. Even mPUAs still need to adapt their Game for differing environments – different clubs, types of women, socio-economic levels, countries, etc. – there needs to be adaptation and improvisation. The same applies for Betas, but the disparity is that the Beta tends to think of a one size fits all approach. For all the complaints of worry about the Game community turning into scripted ‘social robots’, it’s actually the Beta who adopts a far more embedded script and is less likely to deviate from it. Betas tend to stick with what worked for them, what was reinforced for them, in the past.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 66 (view)
Intelligence and dating
Posted: 6/29/2013 7:48:08 PM
We're supposed to strive for mediocrity and never be superior or different in any way? Why? Because it makes other people feel bad and they might have to deal with their own insecurities? All people are not created equal in all things, but instead of teaching kids that, and getting them to work on their own particular talents so that they can be the best they can be with those talents, we lie to them so avoid "hurt feelings". Pffft.

All of those self confidence seminars "Be yourself. Let yourself shine!" Well, unless you have an actual reason to shine, then it's showing off.

I see this crap all the time. Gifted students are supposed to sit in class with their mouth shut because knowing all the answers makes the other kids feel "less". Beautiful people are supposed to NEVER talk about anything physical because it might upset the physically unattractive. If you're musically talented, and you perform a intricate piece in front of people trying to master "Twinkle, twinkle, little star" they will despise you for it.

Meanwhile, the moronic kids with the big mouth are being patted on the back for saying "I see ice cream" in math class, those with unattractive faces are being told how beautiful/handsome they are (don't believe me? Look on Facebook at all the people posting pictures of their kids. A good-looking kid will get one or two comments, yet the one with eyes on the opposite sides of his face will have 50+ comments). The kid who doesn't know the difference between a treble and a bass clef will get the solo in the recital, because we don't want parents to see the good kid and realize that their kid is starting things some others were doing before they tied their shoes.

The idea that we have to hide talent to save the hurt feelings of the insecure is offensive. How are we supposed to get ahead as a society when all the people with those talents never actually use them out of fear of being ostracized for being different? Perhaps instead of telling people to get off their high horse for having something you don't, you could work on strengthening your particular talents (but don't ever talk about them, because someone will come after you to knock you down a peg to make sure you're never proud and you never look "better" than they do).


I've mentioned this before somewhere in the forums. Its a case where the "haves" are not allowed to say anything about the "have nots." We are all trying to coexist so, those who are fortunate in some way shape or form are just simply supposed to accept their privileges in silence so that those who aren't fortunate can b*tch and moan with impunity. It's better to live that nice, dry, unnoteworthy life.

Things that are idolized will always be marginalized, and insignificant achievements are sensationalized.

I'm willing to bet that, when looking at the bell curve, there are more smart people that DID get a formal education than that didn't. Of course, everyone has their anecdote of "I know so-and-so, and they've got 4 Ph.Ds and they're dumber than a box of rocks. Plus they're only book smart. They're not emotionally smart and they have no street smarts. They're also socially awkward and neurotic."

It seems to me that this sort of "no child left behind" mentality has worked its way into the rest of modern society. Speaking of beauty, I see so much "fat acceptance" jargon. If you're not fluffy and have a healthy (lolz) amount of cellulite, then you're either a stupid gym rat or you're an anorexic bag of bones. Any sort of superstar within a craft is always more likable if they're also humble. That's probably one reason why I like rap music. They make no reservations about gloating how awesome they are. They struggled, they grinded their way to greatness, and now they're celebrating.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 96 (view)
So I did not kiss her on the the first date. Good or bad sign?
Posted: 6/6/2013 1:34:52 AM
"If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it.
If you don't ask, the answer is always no.
If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place."

You will seldom regret anything that you've done. It's what you have NOT done that will torment you.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 30 (view)
Are there friend zone indicators?
Posted: 5/22/2013 10:03:17 AM
Friend Zone indicators

- She flakes on you for no apparent reason
- When she flakes she doesn't try to reschedule. The most you might here is "some other time"

- She never dresses up for you

- Whenever you hang out, it's in a group setting

- You find yourself bending over backwards for her, and yet she is always unavailable when you need something.

- Similarly, you listen to her problems while she is not sympathetic to yours

- She talks about other guys in front of you

- She won't flirt with you
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 25 (view)
Gender equality and tradition
Posted: 5/21/2013 5:13:14 PM
Anecdote: This is post-coital conversation

Me: Who'd you go to dinner with?

Her: My friend Peter.

Me: Ah, so you had a date?

Her: No it was not a date! We are just friends.

Me: Really. Let me ask you something…did he pay for dinner?

Her: Well..yes. But he knows we are just friends.

Me: He wants to sleep with you.

Her: He knows that’s not going to happen.

Me: Has he tried to kiss you ever?

Her: No. Well, sort of. He tried a pre-kiss.

Me: WTF is a pre-kiss?

Her: He tried to hint at kissing me by kind of moving around weirdly near my face. I don't know how to explain it, but I could tell he was thinking of kissing me.

Me: Didn't he wonder why you were leaving so early on a Friday night?

Her: Yeah he wanted to go get drinks after, but I told him I had to get up early to go hiking with a friend so I couldn't… (guilty smile)

Paying for dinner (at least in my generation and younger) translates to getting used while some other guy is getting what you're looking for. I minimize my time/money/energy with a girl until there is legitimately something there. There are too many egocentric women out there that don't appreciate a man's efforts. I will willingly bend myself over backwards for a woman who I am committed to, but not someone who I am still getting to know.

As far as the whole equality thing. There is little incentive to change things when the status quo is in your favor. There are a lot of women who are independent and have no issue grabbing the reins. There are others that are also independent, but like to fall back on such traditional practices. I personally love the people who claim to be old fashioned, but aren't even old enough to have experienced the days of when such traditions were more prevalent.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 196 (view)
Do men really screw anything? Looking for honest answers.
Posted: 5/21/2013 4:46:52 PM
One thing I've noticed is that standards go down based on
1. Level of Drunkenness.
2. How long it has been since they've had sex.
3. Lack of options.
4. Likeliness that they will not see that person again.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 70 (view)
Arm candy
Posted: 5/8/2013 1:24:39 AM
So...a girlfriend that is hot? Yes please.

Beauty being the only quality that she has going for her? Obviously not.

Seems like too many posters are hung up on the term itself. A hot, smart, sane, compatible partner is still arm candy if you ask me.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 126 (view)
Male logic versus Female emotions..
Posted: 4/29/2013 5:30:53 AM

great !! so you can fix problems . what if you were the cause of the problem for a woman . would you fix it for her ?

Depends on the woman and it depends on the problem. If the man has no incentive to change anything, then obviously he won't make any efforts to.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 125 (view)
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/9/2013 9:47:22 AM (part 1) (part 2) (part 3) (part 4)

That's pretty much male disposability in a nutshell.

I think Angry Harry (part 2) brings up a really strong point that if a man were to be lying in the middle of the street with his penis cut off and located somewhere down the road, he would be laughed at.

Hell, even a fvcking dog wouldn't recieve such ridicule. The ASPCA would be all over that and it would be publicized ad nauseum. For men however, it's simply comedy.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 39 (view)
Arm candy
Posted: 4/8/2013 3:50:40 AM
I like the idea of having arm candy. Being with a hot partner is [more] motivation for me to improve myself simply because I want to give her incentive to stay with me. Living in the very health/fitness conscious community that is the military, I certainly see the effects of one partner being in shape while the other one is not. There is a considerable amount of "I need to look good for my [wo]man" talk.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 25 (view)
Is this true:basically men want a sexy woman/women want a successful man?
Posted: 4/4/2013 2:38:46 AM
Basically men want women to pass the "boner test." If he isn't aroused from looking at her naked, then she doesn't pass the test. Being successful driven and all that other good stuff isn't nearly as important as women make it out to be.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 27 (view)
She is not satisfied with what I make. Should I continue this relationship?
Posted: 4/3/2013 3:20:31 AM

She now doesn't like the some of my qualities which she used to before and gets annoyed with me doing stupid stuff.

Wrong. She NEVER liked those qualities, but now she is actually vocal about them. There are/were qualities about you that she liked enough to put up with the things she didn't like. Now that she is comfortable with you, she's going to try to change those things that she doesn't like.

Also, one negative trait of hers, which I have known since a long time is that she is very money oriented. Her whole life revolves around making money and saving it.

I don't know if this is necessarily bad. Money -does- make the world go 'round, and it's pretty disgusting how many people know so little about finance, but I digress.

She does spend money on shopping occasionally even buying high end items once in a while, but that's about it. Spending money on almost anything else, even if its for me or her family, is not something she likes to do. And knowing that, I usually try and pay for everything when we both are hanging out. I am cool with it.

Fail. This is classic entitled woman mentality of "What's his is ours, and what's mine is mine," and apparently you are "cool with it." Stop it. If she can't be bothered to show some reciprocity, then you shouldn't be shelling out your money for her benefit. Fvck that.

But whats bothering me is that she now insists that I don't work hard enough and she wants me to earn at least a six digit income so that we can lead a luxurious life.

So...she wants to piggyback off your success so that she doesn't actually have to play the game of life. Sounds like a great partner. *headdesk*

She herself earns a lot and currently, I earn more than she does! But since she is more educated than I am, I can foresee her earning more than me in future.

You make more than her....Full Stop.

If she wants to complain about how much you make, she should at least be on par with what you're making. Her education means almost nothing until something comes to fruition. Ask the people of the Occupy Wall Street movement about their thoughts on "projected income."

I used to work my ass off at work but lately I have been slacking off. My unsuccessful attempts to be an entrepreneur have failed as well. She has picked on this, and now thinks that I am not ambitious enough.

So perhaps you've been demotivated and need something/someone to put a fire under your @ss. From the sound of it, however, her methods are very toxic and condescending. I say this...if you have dreams, then chase them. However, don't over-extend yourself to the point of hitting a wall all because SOMEONE ELSE wants to benefit from YOUR accomplishments.

She thinks that a quality family life is possible only if I earn more than I do right now.

I think it's quite possible to have that life if SHE earns that 6-figure income that she requires of you. Perhaps she should try to motivate herself to being successful instead of trying to manipulate you into doing all of the legwork.
She's the educated one after all, right?

PLEASE tell me that you don't have a joint account with this woman.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 80 (view)
Do you believe in typical gender roles?
Posted: 3/29/2013 5:28:09 AM

If you take 100 men and 100 women all with similar type of jobs (ZERO high risk jobs) and take those who die as a result of an accident or suicide out of the study, study them for longevity, on average, the women will outlive the men. I am talking of death by natural causes.

Do you have any actual sources to cite? You know..a little more intellectual vigor than "the research out there."

They did a big study on this. Where did they get the data? From preists and nuns. They live an extremely similar life style.

Same goes to you. Who is "they?" And why not pick two jobs that -are- the same instead of two jobs that are -mostly- the same?
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 101 (view)
With all the whining about men hold most CEO positions
Posted: 3/25/2013 5:54:54 AM
Pretty plain and simple Apex Fallacy.

Most CEOs are men so therefore lets apply that line of thinking to all men.

And the 2 big issues we see are:
1. Not enough women have the drive, ability, wherewithal to make it to being CEO status, and often times instead of creating their own ideas, that try to barge in with their claims of discrimination and simply piggy back off the successful men that did all the work (i.e. Facebook/Yahoo). After all women have "unique" ideas, but apparently said ideas only like to come to light AFTER the groundwork has been laid.

2. What was essentially touched upon, women aren't exactly rallying for the blue collar jobs. They would rather rally for "comparable pay" so they can continue working their pink collar jobs but get paid the same for doing -different- work.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 10 (view)
Do you believe in typical gender roles?
Posted: 3/21/2013 10:27:04 AM
I may be a little off base here, but when I think gender roles, I am concerning myself mostly with how she acts, not so much what her "duties" are. I want a woman that expresses feminine attributes. Seems that with this constant strive to compete with men, women have also adopted masculine traits as well. Living in Japan for the last 10 months has been quite an eye opener as to what it means to be feminine. I can see why so many servicemembers will extend their orders and/or retire over here.

I would still expect a partner who works at least part time and who cooks. As far as cleaning goes, I've have always been the cleaner person by comparison when looking at my past relationships.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 5 (view)
Question for Men! Help...
Posted: 3/17/2013 7:35:08 AM
The only time I really talk on the phone is with other guys, and when I am trying to make plans. You wanna go for hours talking a out xyz? I have unlimited texts for that. Conversations can be continual and intermittent at the same time.
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 5 (view)
Cell phone etiquette
Posted: 3/11/2013 8:07:31 AM
Having your phone out on display? Fine.

Can't seem to pry yourself away from your phone for an hour? You're not worth my time.

I think the biggest indicator is juxtaposing how much time/effort is spent texting you vs how much time they are on the phone when you are I their presence.
People love to use the "I'm busy" excuse, but they sure have no problem with updating their Facebooks with drivel and texting a mile a minute to all their other friends.

It just seems to be getting worse with the younger generations.
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