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 Author Thread: Man I've not yet met has told me he loves me!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 47 (view)
Man I've not yet met has told me he loves me!
Posted: 6/8/2017 9:51:22 PM
RED FLAG ALERT! RED FLAG ALERT! If you are very curious about this guy, no harm in going on a date with him, BUT I would not have much confidence that this could turn into a serious relationship. Proceed with caution. Him saying he loves you without even so much as having talked on the phone is cray-cray. He obviously doesn't love you so it is one of three possibilities: A) He is an immature, delusional, pathological romantic who BELIEVES he can fall in love with someone from their photo and messages. So he BELIEVES he loves you because he has romanticized and idealized you from whatever communication you've had to this point. So he is being honest but he is very immature and half nuts. B) He knows he doesn't love you in the meaningful, deep sense of the word, but throws the word "love" around very lightly. What he really means is that he is infatuated with your online version of yourself. So again, he is kind of being honest but uses exaggerated language to express how he feels. Immature and in need of a dictionary. C) He KNOWS he doesn't love you and is purposefully being deceptive in order to manipulate you in the misguided belief that women fall for that kind of crap. This means he is a liar and most likely a player. Certainly not capable of an honest, lasting relationship. This is the worst case scenario. If you really, truly have enjoyed chatting with him so far AND find him attractive from his photos meet him to get a better sense of what he's really like. Then you can determine if it is a case of A, B, or C. If it is C, run for the hills.

Two years ago I had a very intense long distance relationship with a man I met through an online gaming site. He found me instantly attractive and pursued me (from a distance) vigourously. He messaged me every day multiple times, and after a few days he was phoning me for long chats all the way from Australia. After that we began video Skyping every day, sometimes for hours at a time. It was just like chatting with someone who is in the same room as you. In LESS THAN 2 WEEKS he was telling me he loved me and wanted to marry me - that I was his dream woman. It was a big red flag for me BUT I figured he was maybe just a bit immature, overly idealistically romantic, and that this was just his way of expressing he was crazy about me. We made concrete plans for him to come visit me here in Canada. He even started talking about wanting to move here if things worked out and even began looking for jobs here! Long story short we had a very intense 5 month long distance relationship which involved multiple daily messages and video Skyping, lots of deep conversations and some pretty intense cyber sex thrown in as well. Well guess what? Surprise, surprise, as the time approached for him to come visit, he gradually but surely started cooling off. He had idealized me for weeks and eventually when he discovered I was actually human instead of some goddess that would fulfill his every desire, his intense "love" for me quickly dissolved. The end result? He bailed on coming to visit and did the "slow fade." We "broke up." Months later when we spoke post-breakup he admitted he ended up not being able to afford to make the trip all the way from Australia and was too embarrassed at the time to admit it. So he ghosted. Some "love" eh? And I was the "woman of his dreams" who he claimed he wanted to marry? Pffft....please. These guys will lovebomb you in the beginning to hook you but are hopeless at sustaining a TRULY loving relationship. Go on a date with him, but if you smell a rat, DO NOT PROCEED! I learned the hard way and would never trust a man who lovebombs me ever again.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 115 (view)
weird that oral sex does nothing for me?
Posted: 5/9/2017 2:00:24 AM
Has never done anything for me. Now is that because every single man I've been with has poor technique? I don't think that's what it is. It's just I like the stimulation to be a big rough in that area. A tongue is too gentle. Stimulate my clit with your fingers? Oh yeah baby. Finger me inside? Even better. **** me with your penis AND manually stimulate my clit at the same time and I am sent into a sexual stratosphere from which few return, lol.

If it turns my guy on to go down on me, well then by all means I'm not going to stop him as long as he knows I'm likely not going to get off on it. But using the above methods he will have me quivering and emitting groans of ecstasy so fast I don't think he will care about the oral...

And one thing I am damn good at is GIVING a blow job. It's my expertise....several of boyfriends/ men I have dated told me I gave them the best blow job of their LIVES. My last boyfriend said that blow jobs didn't do anything for him and he couldn't cum from them. I had him cumming in 5 minutes ;) So hopefully given all of this, a guy won't mind the fact that I'm indifferent to receiving oral sex.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 25 (view)
7 years. Nearly 8 without sex.
Posted: 5/9/2017 1:29:47 AM
I was in the exact same situation as you Uncle Tom90 (and almost still am). Ironic, since I've always had a healthy sex drive. Although I'm sure the reasons for you are quite different from mine.

Without getting into what it was here, back in 2008 when I was 37 I experienced a life-shattering, horrifying and deeply traumatic event that completely destroyed my life in every way possible. And I do mean in EVERY aspect. Not a 'normal' trauma that most people deal with at some point in their lives, but one that is so rare, you have a 1 in a million chance of being so unlucky. The aftermath was even worse - my long-term boyfriend and I broke up under the stress. I developed SEVERE PTSD for several years (thank god I no longer suffer from it anymore). I also plunged into a deep depression for many years which affected my relationships with my family and friends. It's much better, but even now I have to work hard to keep it at bay. All to say when your life is chaos and you endure years of emotional suffering and hell, you're happy to just survive the day, let alone have sex or a relationship. I isolated myself socially and did not even WANT a man in my life for many years. I gave up on love and resigned myself to living like a nun for the rest of my life. I purposely shut down my sex drive. It was rare that I would masturbate.

The years went by, and I gradually became more social, going out a little bit more. Then 2 years ago (2015) a man came into my life who was so persistent that he broke down my sexual defenses. It was mostly a long distance relationship but for 5 months we had a very active mind-blowing cyber-sex life. Let's just say this brought my libido back from the dead with a vengeance! We called off the relationship because of the distance, but boy, I was all revved up and ready to date again for the first time in over 7 years! Signed up for POF, met a guy, hit it off, dated him for a month, and finally had REAL WORLD sex for the first time in over 7 years!! I had multiple orgasms and it was great! What sucked was that he had a cold sore so we couldn't kiss during sex, so that did put a damper on things. Well too much of a damper for him I guess, since he dumped my ass 3 days after we had sex for the first time :'( I was crushed. Not so much because I was super attached to him or anything, but just the fact that FINALLY after 7 LONG years of abstaining from sex by choice, I opened up and allowed myself to be vulnerable for the first time and WHAM! It was like getting kicked in the stomach. And it wasn't just a bad dating experience, but frankly probably the worst of my life. No man has ever ended it with me after only one roll in the hay....they all couldn't wait to keep coming back for more!

So basically I went over 7 years without sex, finally had sex and was looking forward to continuing to explore things with the guy, and I got dumped before he even gave it a chance. Well that was almost exactly a year and I have not been intimate with anyone since. Like a turtle who's hurt or scared I'm back in my shell now.

So the final result? I have had sex only ONCE in the last 8 years. And couldn't even kiss the idiot 'cos he had a cold sore.

So I feel ya.....all you peeps out there who go ridiculously long periods of time without sex......some of us it is by choice because we are not in a place emotionally to have a relationship (even if we normally have high sex drives), for some they just don't have a high sex drive so they don't try very hard But it totally sucks when you DO want a loving, sexual relationship and it's just not happening. Even though many men find me attractive, flirt with me, would date me, my self esteem and confidence has taken a serious beating...because the rare guy I DID want to have a relationship with rejected me. To answer the original question - yes for me it has badly affected my mental health and self-esteem not being in a loving relationship for over 8 years now.

Sorry, didn't mean for this to be an autobiography! lol Just feel it's more helpful when people share personal stories that they share the details.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 31 (view)
Guy I dated briefly has a new girlfriend but still wants to hang out. Why?
Posted: 5/8/2017 9:43:00 PM
UPDATE: Thank-you everyone for your comments on the situation. Just to clarify - I have NOT slept with this guy since dating him last summer, nor will I. In response to some of the cynical comments assuming that I will give in since I find him attractive, you are wrong. Nothing puts me off sleeping with a guy more than knowing he is involved with someone else. He has tried to booty call me a couple of times since we dated and I politely but firmly turned him down. Another example - many years ago, I was dating someone briefly and one night the guy had me over for dinner. We started kissing and it was at that moment he told me he was also seeing someone else and wanted me to know but still wanted to date me. I told him thanks, no thanks and walked right out of his apartment. I would never sleep with someone who is already in a relationship, just to be clear.

I have not gotten together with him since my original post. I initially accepted his invite to get together for dinner (strictly as friends) but left the date vague as to when. I never followed up with it. Well as usual, a month went by and like clockwork I heard from him yet again a few days ago. We chatted for a while and he said that things are going well with his new girlfriend. He also said he would never cheat on her. Then he suggested that we get together and hang out and catch up. This is why I find the situation confusing and part of me thinks he does genuinely want to be platonic friends and is not looking to cheat. But perhaps, even at my ripe old age of 45 I am still naive. If a guy wanted a booty call, wouldn't he avoid mentioning that things are going well with his girlfriend?

And the final bombshell update; today on Facebook it came through on my newsfeed that he has put his house up for rent and is moving out. It is obvious that he is moving in with her. Last summer when him and I dated he said when he got to the point where he was thinking of moving in with someone, he would rent his house out initially for a while before selling it. I have to say I am truly shocked that he is already moving in with this person and they have only known each other for 5 months. Based on his dating history with me and other women last year, he certainly didn't seem in any hurry to settle down or make things serious so quickly. Maybe it's just me, but 5 months seems like a ridiculously short amount of time to take such a huge step. You barely know the person. I am stunned that a guy who seems commitment-phobic would want that so soon.

Anyway, that is the update. Again, I don't understand why he even wants to stay in touch with me, especially given this latest revelation. He's obviously really into her. Why bother? I highly doubt he's still interested in having sex with me, and even if he is, he knows I won't sleep him now that he's with someone else. Meanwhile he is still active on POF, his profile is not hidden, and still says he is "actively seeking a relationship." Huh?!?!

Anyway, I really want nothing to do with him anymore for so many reasons. Especially this latest revelation of him moving in with her. Would not feel comfortable even being platonic friends under that circumstance.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
Guy I dated briefly has a new girlfriend but still wants to hang out. Why?
Posted: 4/19/2017 1:36:28 AM
So long story short, I dated this guy briefly (about 6 weeks) last year who I met off this site. We got along great, had fun when we went out, and there was no question we both found each other physically attractive. But for whatever reason, he decided not to pursue a relationship with me, before we had a chance to really get to know each other. I still haven't been able to quite figure out why given our physical attraction and the fact that we have so many common interests, and whenever we went out we would talk for hours...etc. etc. But anyway. I was pretty pissed off when we ended things about 9 months ago (not to mention my ego took a major bruising). Didn't plan to stay in touch with him. But for the last 9 months he has persisted in staying in touch with me on a semi-regular basis and we end up having an extended online chat about once or twice a month (through private messaging on Facebook). Nothing deep, just shooting the breeze, catching up, and inevitably he ALWAYS asks how my dating life is going. We also almost always end up flirting playfully with each other during these chats. No question we're both still physically attracted.

In January he invited me and treated me out for a movie. For the entire week following the movie he messaged me every day to chat. Half of it was asking me how my day was, but the other half was him making it clear that he's still very attracted. Still he never came out and said "I'd like to date you again." Just lots of implications, including a suggestion that he come over to my place (booty call alert!). He has tried booty calling me a couple of times since we ended things last year, but I have made it VERY clear to him that I'm not interested, and that I only sleep with a man if I'm dating him. By now he knows I'm not into casual sex.

A couple of weeks after we went out for the movie in January, we were online chatting and it came out that he is actually seeing someone AND was dating them even when he invited me to the movie and that whole week following when we had very flirty chats and he tried a booty call. I was pretty shocked but played it cool and told him I was happy for him that he has met someone. Next thing you know, a couple of weeks later this woman has posted a photo of the two of them for her Facebook profile pic! And changed her status to "in a relationship." And they even went on a trip to Niagara Falls! WTF. Who does that after only dating for 3 months??? Seems pretty needy and rushing things to me on her part, but whatever. Meanwhile he has no pics or indication of her on his profile.

So to get to my question...well a couple of weeks ago he messaged me, we chatted, and he asked when I would be free to get together for dinner. But meanwhile he's still with this girl with no signs of an impending break-up. So my question is - why the heck does he even want to hang out with me? He has a new girlfriend...wouldn't he rather spend his free time with her? And he knows he's not going to get a booty call from me, plus he's obviously getting laid, so trying to have sex with me can't be the motive. He finds me physically attractive but only wants to be a platonic friend? I just don't get it Why would a guy who dated a woman briefly and broke it off with her, want to stay in touch and hang out with her, despite having a girlfriend? Is there a small part of him that is still interested in me? (But obviously not as much as her). I should also mention he is still active on this site. Don't think she would be too pleased with that.

Any insights welcome! Truly baffled. Thank-you!!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 38 (view)
ex sex
Posted: 3/13/2017 9:58:48 AM
I've had ex-sex with at least 3 different exes and while it was very enjoyable I would never do it again. Because it was enjoyable it stirred up all kinds of feelings in me - both physical and emotional, and made me desire them again, for more than just a one-off ex-sex encounter. Of course I didn't get back with any of them and it just re-opened old feelings and wounds and caused me more pain than it was worth. With one of them the sex was so amazing and intense, I ended up having the biggest orgasm of my life. I will never forget that orgasm! Apparently he never forgot it either because 15 years later he stalks me on LinkedIn on a regular basis lol. If you are someone who cannot deaden your feelings for someone when you have sex with them ex sex is a terrible idea! Never again.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 110 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 2/21/2017 1:02:44 AM
Thanks norwegianguy, for once again, a very well thought-out response that takes all the details that I've shared about the situation into account. Great advice. Unfortunately however, since my original post I have completely lost interest in him romantically (and maybe even as a platonic friend as well). Not because of his cheapness per say, but for a variety of reasons that are too long to explain and complicated to get into here.

The bottom line is that in the last month and a half he has demonstrated that he is one of the most self-absorbed people I have ever met. I always knew he was that way a bit but I put up with it because I liked so many other things about him as a person and as a friend. The bottom line is that he wants and enjoys things that others do for and give to him (whether it's emotional support, going along with things HE wants to do, talking on the phone for hours 'cos he loves to chat, etc. etc.) but he barely reciprocates. I have been his best friend (almost like a girlfriend but platonic) for 3 years now and been there by his own admission "through thick and thin." But recently I really needed his emotional support as a friend for a change, for something VERY important, and VERY painful. I told him this. I thought his reaction would be "OMG, I'm so sorry, please come over and we'll talk over a couple of glasses of wine." But instead he told me he could not "bear" to hear my sad story or offer me any support at the moment because he was "feeling too emotionally fragile" himself about his own troubles!!! Yet I have been there every time he has needed me over the last couple of years - through his mother's illness and death, and many, many other things. Him calling me at 2:00 am and holding his hand through a panic attack too many times to count. All while I, like anyone, was dealing with many of MY own troubles. But that didn't stop me from being there for him.

Let's just say I was flabbergasted at his reaction and could not believe it given what a good friend I've been to him. At that moment my feelings for him even as a friend completely changed. All the affection I had for him flew out the window I was so hurt. I have withdrawn from him as a friend since then. He knows I am upset and we are now barely talking. I don't even want him as a friend anymore. I can't stand his self-absorption. And he has lost a couple of other friends recently as well for the same reason. Because he is not there for them when they need him but they are there for him. At this rate he will grow old and die alone....womanless and friendless. I'm done with him, that's for sure.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 108 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 2/20/2017 5:47:38 PM
I think some of you clearly did not read my original post or comments properly. I said very clearly, several times over, that I was NOT looking for him to spend ANY money on me. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my hesitation. What was turning me off is that he is so cheap he is unwilling to even PAY HIS OWN WAY to do ANYTHING. I am not one of these women that expects a guy to treat me most of the time if we are dating. The last guy I dated we each took turns treating each other from the getgo, and that is how I am when I'm in a long-term relationship as well. And I would be happy to treat him to go out and do things together. But I can't afford to do that all the time nor do I find it fair that I should have to. We both make about the same income. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want to go out to a restaurant or show or activity once in a while. I'm not even saying every week....just SOMETIMES. I have realized that he is basically a hermit who prefers to be at home alone with his "toys" and material possessions rather than someone who likes to get out in the world and experience activities and enjoy the company of other people. Could explain why he hasn't had a proper girlfriend in well over 10 years.

So I have decided not to pursue this romantically for a variety of reasons. I am someone who values creating fun memories and spending time with people I care about rather than sitting at home staring at my new widescreen TV or superhero figurine by myself. Life is for living and the world is an amazing place. So obviously him and I are not compatible as he does not share this sentiment.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 26 (view)
If a guy talks about sex a lot with you is that ALL he's looking for with you?
Posted: 2/6/2017 11:32:26 PM
Thanks Norwegian guy for your advice and I hear what you're saying. I guess I just find it odd that at the beginning of the week he was warm and friendly and messaging me every day but by the end of the week, he was making less efforts in his messages and still hadn't invited me out, but tried to get me to come over last minute. And then to not contact me at all in the last 4 days? What gives? I mean sure I could straight up ask him but I doubt I would get an honest answer anyway. And sure I could suggest meeting up with him this week, but frankly I really had wanted him to invite me. I wouldn't feel good if I have to be the one to ask him out. And don't you think that the fact that he hasn't contacted me in 4 days means he's lost interest or just is not that keen? I need a guy's perspective on this. 'Cos if that's the case I really DON'T want to contact him and suggest getting together. As for your last suggestion about talking to him...I agree. But only if we get together in person. If he's not interested in doing that soon I won't bother to talk to him about it....I'll just let it go.

And Coma White - I get your point too. And that's what I'm afraid of - that he's not that into me but will happily take sex if I'm willing. I know he has had "friends with benefits" before so maybe he's hoping I can be one of those while he continues his search for his "one true love" (which is setting yourself up for failure, but that's another topic..).

I will share our last message exchange with you guys and would appreciate your opinion on it. At the beginning of the week, he was warm, flirty, and chatty and telling me it had been great to see me. But by Friday, this is the message I received from him; much less warm, much less chatty, much less flirty, and he ended the chat in a pretty cold manner. and again no proper, planned invite. Maybe he was having an off day, but it left me with the impression that he doesn't have feelings for me one way or the other...but hey if I'm willing to have sex with him than great, but if not he can't be bothered. Again, haven't heard from him since this message. But please correct me if you think there's another explanation for his demeanour. Thank-you! Here it is:

Him: how did things go?
Me: Hi 🙂 Do you mean with my appointment with the executors and the bank?
Him: yup
Me: It went well, thanks. We're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
Him: good stuff
Me: Yeah. You crossed my mind while I was there when I saw the woman's Financial Planner diploma on the wall of her office lol
Him: she's worried about losing the money
Me: Sorry, who's worried about losing the money? Me or her? lol
Him: her
Me: Hope no money will be lost by no one lol Getting ready for your game night?
Him: no game!!! my friends are all busy
Me: Awww, bummer
Him: painting some little dudes
Me: Haha miniatures?
Him: yup
Me: Cool. That will keep you out of trouble for a while.
Him: an hour or so 😉 what are you up to?
Me: Got home not too long ago. Said bye to my sis who left to go back up north. Have been nursing a coffee trying to stay awake. Pretty tired. Keeping a watchful eye on my new house guest. Things are going smoother today with the kitty horde than yesterday 🙂
Him: lol
Me: Are you wearing your knit slippers?
Him: yes 😊
Me: Oooooohhh. Those sound cozy.
Him: i have a 2nd pair 😉
Me: Lol, tell me more. I'm not sure how men's foot size converts from women, but what shoe size are you? And I am talking about your FOOT size lol 😉
Him: they are stretchy
Me: Your feet are stretchy? Have you had that looked at?
Him: slippers!
Me: Lol I know...just being silly. You should post some pics of your miniatures after you've unleashed your artistry on them.
Him: meh... I'm not good
Me: What are you doing after you finish painting your little dudes?
Him: watching a movie i guess
Me: Do you think you will end up watching Shyamalan's "Unbreakable" at some point?
Him: lol probably you?
Me: Yeah I'd watch it if I get the opportunity. More curious now to watch it after we saw that weird ending the other night.
Him: you're welcome to come over. it's a bit of a mess
Me: Lolll. Well thank-you. I'm super exhausted tonight but that would be fun if you want to watch it some other night in the near future. I'll provide popcorn 🙂
Him: oki doki
Me: OK, well I'll let you concentrate on your painting 🙂
Him: ok ttyl
Me: Bye, have fun
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 22 (view)
If a guy talks about sex a lot with you is that ALL he's looking for with you?
Posted: 2/6/2017 8:08:08 PM
Thank you all of you for your thoughtful, intelligent replies. Nice to hear from people actually trying to help and who don't need to zing you at the same time to do it. I should clarify that him and I dated before quite a while ago and we have been briefly intimate in the past. So he is not some stranger on the internet or some guy I have only been out with once or twice who I barely know. But neither is he currently a lover or boyfriend. I'm not sure what his agenda is. Last week we messaged every day and I was pleased that he sent me a few messages asking about how my day was or other non-sexual things. So maybe sex is not the only thing he is looking for. But at the same time he hasn't exactly rushed to ask me out again since our movie last week. Since I posted my original post, a couple of days ago he invited me to come over to his place and watch a movie with him. This was at 7:00 pm on Friday. I was too tired to go and it smelled too much like a booty call (not that
I've ever given him a booty call before) so I thanked him for the invite and suggested we do it another time soon since I was very tired. I am waiting for him to extend another invitation to me to do an activity out of the house - something planned, that feels more like a date, but already a week has gone by since we went for the movie and it hasn't happened. Plus since I turned him down on Friday to go over to his place he hasn't messaged me. So now I don't know what to think. Do you think that maybe because I turned him down and he hasn't contacted me since that this means he was just looking for a quick hook-up, but now realizes he won't get it so has moved on? OR, do you think it's possible he's genuinely interested but because I turned him down he thinks I'M not interested so has given up? So confused, aargh.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
If a guy talks about sex a lot with you is that ALL he's looking for with you?
Posted: 2/2/2017 10:18:22 PM
OK, I realize there are many different types of men out there; hence why I am asking this question. I have recently reconnected with someone I dated briefly a while back (all his initiative). We have been messaging more frequently in the past month or so. We talk about a variety of things, but not to any great depth. And inevitably the conversation always turns to playful sexual flirting and banter. Part of the reason for this is when we dated we were extremely physically attracted to each other, and still are.

I actually quite enjoy the sexual talk BUT it IS bothering me that there is not equal air time devoted to other topics in great depth. We touch on stuff like how his/ my job is going, how our pets are, etc. We joke around a lot as well, but fairly superficial stuff. This week he invited me out to a movie and we saw each other for the first time in many months. It was a pleasant evening. We've chatted every day since but eventually it always ends up with sex chat. I don't know if he will invite me out again soon. I think we are both being careful and not rushing back into it since it didn't work last time.

I'm relatively new to online dating and find it is a completely different animal from traditional dating. In the past I would spend time with a guy, we would get to know each other and see if we liked each other and then the sexual element would just fall into place after. By then we would already know each other a bit as people. This guy has always been focused on the physical aspect of the relationship more so than the emotional connection. He hasn't ignored the emotional connection but it seems less important to him at this stage.

So my question is this - are there some men out there who like to START relationships focusing on the sexual aspect and then for them the interest in getting to know the woman deeply as a person comes later? In other words, they have to have a sexual relationship BEFORE they can start to develop true feelings and want to know her in depth? OR, if a guy starts a relationship focusing on the sex, does it almost always mean that's all he is looking for with this particular woman and is unlikely to ever develop true feelings for her? If that's the case I don't want to waste my time. But if he is just simply one of those guys who for whatever reason needs a sexual connection to open up his emotional connection then I'm willing to give it a try. It's not how I have ever started a relationship before. I have often had very deep emotional connections with men at the SAME time we were getting sexually involved. So this "sex first, emotions later" kind of guy is alien to me. OR, given the above behaviour is this most likely a case of a guy who just wants to use me for sex? Don't feel like getting burnt.

Thanks so much in advance for any advice! :) Only useful constructive feedback, intelligent insights and advice welcomed. Fortunately there's still some of you out there willing to do that ;)
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 68 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 1/9/2017 9:21:02 AM
First off, thank-you to everyone here who took the time to properly read my post and who left an intelligent, constructive answer. More thanks if you were one of the few who had a smidgen of understanding of what I am feeling and didn't jump to all kinds of judgmental and negative conclusions. After reading posts in these forums on and off for a number of months sadly it seems that many are just looking for opportunities to criticize and jump all over people who sincerely ask for advice here. Thankfully it's not everyone.

Just want to clarify a couple of things about the situation and my feelings since it seems some of what I wrote was misinterpreted by some. First off, I would never dream of telling a friend how to spend their money. When I wrote that I was pissed off that he went and bought a $500 television what I meant is that I was more disappointed by it than anything (in light of what I'm about to explain here). Despite this, I didn't say a word to him about it because it is not my place to do so. But that doesn't mean that I'm not disappointed when he talks about spending money on material possessions for himself but turns down plans to spend money on activities. Let me explain more about why I get disappointed and then maybe you will understand where I'm coming from. Many times HE is the one who will invite ME to do something - suggest that we go to a decent restaurant (NOT fancy, just one step up from fast food) go to an exhibit, or even a concert. It's always with the understanding we will go dutch, which is fine with me. But then when push comes to shove and the day draws near to do the activity, he will pull out saying that he quote "can't afford it" or "I'm too broke right now to do that." But then, literally just a few days later he will talk to me about what he bought himself that day. So a huge part of my annoyance is the BULLSHIT. For example, we are both HUGE fans of "Game of Thrones" and the music from the show. A couple of months ago he learned that the Game of Thrones concert is coming to a city nearby. HE was so excited and told me about it and suggested that we go together. I said that I would love to. But when push came to shove a few weeks later when the tickets went on sale and I said I would like to purchase the tickets he said "I can't go. It's too expensive and I don't have the money because I have to save for a new car." But that VERY SAME WEEK he went out and bought a bunch of stuff and since then he has spent hundreds of dollars on "toys" for himself. So obviously it simply wasn't true that he didn't have the money to go. This has happened many, many times throughout our friendship. He is just simply someone who prefers to spend money on THINGS for himself rather than on activities with other human beings. But it's best not to lie to a friend and say you don't have money and then turn around a day later and tell them all about your big purchase on your latest shiny toy.

Of course I wouldn't expect a friend to spend money on something they have little interest in. Not doing so is not what makes him cheap in my opinion. What makes him cheap is that he won't spend money on things he IS actually interested in - like the concert example above. Another example is that we're both long-time vegetarians and huge food lovers. But the only place he's ever eaten dinner with me at is a local vegetarian fast food place. Any other attempt on my part to go somewhere different once in a blue moon is met with "I don't have the money." Even the few times HE suggested we go somewhere different he flaked on the plans, crying poor. The worst example of this was my birthday last year. He invited me out to celebrate my birthday - even offered to take me out for dinner. We made plans to go the following weekend. I thought it was really sweet of him and was really looking forward to it. The day before we were supposed to go out he contacted me and actually cancelled! The reason? "It turns out I don't have the money right now. I have a lot of expenses and have to save for X, Y, and Z in the next few weeks." I was flabbergasted that he would not just postpone, but outright cancel my birthday dinner after HE was the one who suggested we go out and celebrate in the first place. I was very hurt. No matter what, I would NEVER cancel on a friend after extending an invitation to take them out for their birthday. And yes there have been times in my life where I have been broke. Regardless, I would put it on my credit card or borrow the money if I had to. But to do that to someone is really sh*tty and beyond cheap in my opinion.

A few of you said that because we are not romantically involved that that explains why he doesn't want to go out to a decent place for dinner. But I personally don't see the connection. I have never expected him to treat and he knows that because I have made it clear that I would pay my way. In addition I have been going out to dinner for YEARS with my friends - both male and female. I have had many guy pals through the years and one of the primary ways we hang out and catch up is by going out for dinner and having a fun evening. Has nothing to do with romance. I'm sure many of you have been out to a restaurant for dinner with a platonic friend.

Some of you commented that he might not even be interested in me romantically so why am I even entertaining the notion. That is entirely possible. I said from the beginning that I am not 100% sure he is interested, BUT that there are many signs that he is. If you were on the receiving end of the following, ask yourself if YOU would think the person was interested. Some of the things he has said to me that make me think he MIGHT be interested are:

"You're so etc."
"You're such a catch."
"You and I are like Beauty and the Beast - and you're obviously the Beauty."
"I should have married you a long time ago when I had the chance."
"At my mom's funeral everyone thought you were my girlfriend and I let them believe that. You being there really improved my reputation."
"I would sooooooo date 'Linda' if I ever had the chance. I would love to date her if she would have me. But I would date YOU before I would date her."

On his Facebook page a couple of weeks ago, he posted the following about me for all his friends to see:
"Thank you to the wonderful lady who played her version of Hallelujah to me yesterday at a time when I felt real low. She wishes to remain nameless and she doesn't want me to share the recording of her cover of that wonderful song. Thank you, sweetie. You have the voice of an angel and the patience of a saint. You're a wonderful friend, through thick and thin, you've never given up on me."

These are just a few examples of things he has said to me in recent weeks and months. There are MANY others - and some have even been overtly sexual.

Just a couple of days ago he sent me a couple of pics of himself in his new superhero boxer shorts! lol I didn't ask for them. He just sent them.

So I'm not crazy to think he MIGHT be interested. He has also told me many times that he has never made the first move on a woman and never would either, no matter how interested he is. He is just too shy. The only reason he actually had a short-term relationship last year is because the woman literally threw herself at him.

Maybe some of the men here can, in light of the above signs, shed some light on the situation. Would you say/ do those things to a platonic female friend you had no/ little romantic interest in?

Regardless, his cheapness is a major turn-off for me, hence my original post (and by the way, to those of you who still think he isn't cheap and just has "other priorities" he himself has referred to himself as "cheap" and "a cheap **stard" many times. He's almost proud of it). And again, I don't expect him to pay my way on anything. I'm simply talking about his stubbornness to even pay HIS OWN WAY for activities he himself has expressed an interest in doing. Whether or not he would be different or more willing to do activities if I was his girlfriend is an unknown. If I thought he would be more flexible in a romantic relationship I would probably be willing to give it a go. It's a shame because we are so ridiculously compatible otherwise. But I don't want to get involved with him just to "test" and see if he would be less cheap because we're suddenly sexually involved. Because if he wasn't a bit more flexible about doing activities I would only end up breaking up with him a few months down the road. Hence my original post here asking for advice about whether or not I should even broach the issue with him.

Hope this clarifies a few things! Thanks again for reading and all intelligent and constructive feedback welcome. :-)
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 10 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 1/3/2017 5:37:14 AM

I got to wonder how many of your girlfriends take you out and spend 40$ on a dinner date for you? And are you mad at them as well for not doing it? When a man is single he has no one to spend money on but himself and does it just to make himself happy.

Nestaron: Did you not read my entire post or did you just not understand what I was saying? I never said I wanted him to "take me out" or spend money on me. I am talking about him being willing to occasionally spend money on HIMSELF and simply come out with me IF we were dating. Isn't that kinda normal IF you have a girlfriend?

And to answer you question - yes, absolutely my girlfriends and I go out for dinner together. That is in fact what we normally do when we see each other. We usually don't go anywhere fancy - just somewhere nice with decent food and with restaurant prices these days, it is usually around at least $30 a person total including wine, tax, and tip (here in Canada tax is 15% which is why it is hard to get out of a restaurant for less than $30, unless you order very little and don't order any booze). And yes we even treat each other on special occasions (birthdays, etc.). Crazy eh?
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 9 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 1/3/2017 5:24:13 AM

OP...His material possessions in the long run will cost him less than being in a relationship with you.

cooldog65: That's a really snarky and unfair thing to say. To say that, you are talking as if I am some materialistic woman who is high maintenance and expects a guy to treat me to a lavish lifestyle or something. I am ANYTHING but. I pay my own way every time we go out AND I have even treated him a couple of times. I would continue to do this in a relationship with him because I know he doesn't have a lot of money. I wonder if you really read my post or if you just like making mean and unfounded comments. I am not talking about going out every week like many couples do. I am talking about going out only on occasion (like maybe once every couple of months) to somewhere or an activity other than fast food or a movie. And PAYING FOR MYSELF when we do. Do you really think that's too much to want from your boyfriend? So how is it that buying his material possessions (which he does regularly) will cost him less than being in a relationship with me? Given that he spends WAY more on them than he would on doing on activity with me once in a while? And given that I am generous when I'm in a relationship and would treat him sometimes? And given that if the relationship evolved to living together/ marriage he would actually SAVE money long-term on housing and many other expenses that couples share? Then there are all the emotional benefits that he would get (and already gets from me). I am very good to him and am his biggest cheerleader and confidante and best friend. He has told me he doesn't know what he would do without me and that he is so grateful to have me in his life and that I have been there for him through thick and thin. I am the one who he called several times at 2:00 am this year when he couldn't sleep after his mom died and he just wanted comfort. He does the same kind of things for me as well. We have a very loving relationship even though it's thus far only been platonic. That is extremely rare to have in a friend let alone a romantic partner. Yet somehow you don't think that is worth spending a LITTLE money on? It's totally normal to spend money to do activities with your boyfriend or girlfriend sometimes. And on the spectrum of spending I'm actually pretty low maintenance compared to a lot of women. Unfair comment on your part.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 8 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 1/3/2017 4:54:53 AM

So, what if he says that he is willing to loosen up if he has a girlfriend? How does that work? It will be a constant bone of contention between you two. You two are just not compatible. I'm shocked that you felt you had the right to be angry with him for spending his own money.

gc deb: I was not angry with him for spending his own money. What I meant was that I was upset in light of the fact that he chooses to not ALSO spend money in order to have fun and do activities with his closest friend (me). And says quote "I can't afford to go out." This is simply not true. It's more that I sometimes feel hurt that he seems to value material possessions more than quality time with me.


And, once again, you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole from the very get go, or in this case even BEFORE the get go.

That's not what I feel I'm doing. Don't you think I am being smart by giving this issue serious consideration BEFORE getting involved? Unlike many others who just go with their emotions and don't give much thought to long-term compatibility and then regret it months down the road? The way our friendship is it would be very easy to slip into a relationship. He has hinted many times that he has romantic feelings for me. But I don't want that if we're just going to break up a year from now over this issue.

This is not how it works. You don't find an incompatible male and try to make it into a compatible one. If a guy is incompatible, that means he's not the one for you. Even if a guy is 90% compatible and the rest of it is a bunch of deal breakers, it means he's incompatible. Even if there's only ONE major deal breaker, it means he's incompatible.

I'm not trying to 'make' him compatible with me. Throughout our friendship we have discovered that we are very compatible in so many ways - so many it's almost scary. This is the only issue (for me). Of course it's a dealbreaker IF he is completely inflexible and if he doesn't take his partner's needs into consideration. You see unlike a lot of people I don't expect complete compatibility with someone and I also believe relationships are give and take. Heck even good friendships should be give and take. There will always be differences with your partner but if you're willing to meet each other halfway on certain important things then that's what really matters. I go into a relationship EXPECTING to compromise on stuff that I normally would not do if I was single. So my point of this post is that I'm wondering if he also has an attitude of give and take when he has a girlfriend and how I can ascertain that. Him and I just friends now so obviously we don't treat each other like boyfriend and girlfriend. I'm wondering if he has a girlfriend if his behaviour or willingness to compromise would be different than with a platonic female friend.

Hint: You can't change people. This seems to be particularly difficult for you to accept, but it's really true. People are who they are and they only change if they want to, not because you think they should.

This is not difficult for me to accept. Again you are being harsh and jumping to conclusions. Of course people don't fundamentally change. I'm not naive. But I've had enough relationships and observed enough with my friends to know that people DO change quite a bit in many ways when they are in a romantic relationship. They often do things that they never would have done when they were single thanks to the influence of their partner (for good or bad). Just as an example my male friend whom this post is about was dating someone briefly earlier this year - someone he had been platonic friends with first. After they became romantically involved he actually bought her a number of gifts. This is something he NEVER would have done for her when she was his friend. In the 3 years I've known him he's never bought a single gift for ANY friend for any reason - not for birthdays or Christmas. But suddenly when he considered her his girlfriend his behaviour was different. He also compromised on a few other little things with her and did some stuff that he didn't do when he was single. Do you see what I mean? I am not trying to change him. What I am trying to do is before getting involved with him ascertain whether or not he would be WILLING to do things with me as his girlfriend that he won't do with me as his friend. Just as I would be willing to modify my behaviour with him for certain things that I know are important to him.

Hope that helps to clarify the point of this post. Would be nice if people did not jump to such negative conclusions so quickly.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
Is there any way to address a potential boyfriend's cheapness?
Posted: 1/2/2017 11:21:17 PM
I've been friends with this guy for 3 years and in the last year we've become particularly close. He's basically my best friend and I know I am his as well. We have a ridiculous amount in common, message each other almost every day and often talk on the phone for hours at a time. We're also very emotionally close and can talk to each other about anything. I definitely love him as a person but also often find myself developing romantic feelings for him as well. I often refer to him with other people as my "boyfriend without benefits" lol. However, I know that if we were to ever get involved and become more than friends I would have to be the one to initiate. He has told me many times that he has never made a first move on a woman due to being painfully shy when it comes to romance - any previous girlfriend he's had it was because she was the one who initiated. This is very challenging for me since any relationship I've had was because the guy pursued and courted me.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately but every time I am close to telling him how I feel or subtly making a physical move on him there is one thing that always stops me: his cheapness. Now when I call him cheap it is not because I expect him to pay my way. Not at all. I always pay my share. But he is so cheap he will even avoid going out and paying his own way on most things. He just doesn't want to spend money on activities period and would rather just stay home most of the time. When we hang out we almost always do one of only three things - a movie, a fast food restaurant, or we spend the evening at his house. I am perfectly happy and enjoy doing this 80-90% of the time. But I would so love to do something different once in a long while. But any time I suggest going to a non-fast-food restaurant he always finds an excuse not to go, claiming he can't afford it. Same with any other special events such as a concert, festival, exhibit, etc. etc. In 3 years of friendship we have not even ONCE done any of these things. I understand that money is tight for him and I would not expect to do these things on a regular basis (or again. expect him to pay for me). But I know he could afford to do it once in a while or on a special occasion. And not even ONCE in 3 years?

Meanwhile, even though he is tight on cash he often tells me about his latest purchases on material possessions for himself: expensive collectable book, DVDs of entire TV series, comic books, "geeky" figurines/ decorations, etc. etc. Just today he told me he bought himself a brand new TV for $500! There was nothing wrong with his other TV. I was super pissed off and had to control my reaction. It is becoming insulting and hurtful (not to mention downright boring) that he is willing to spend all this money on material possessions but never splurge slightly on a $30 or $40 dinner (or any other event) to go out with me and have a nice evening. I am the type of person that puts my money towards fun activities and experiences in the world, creating memories and having good times with people I am close to. If I had limited money to spend I would never choose material possessions over spending fun times with people I care about.

It is a shame because otherwise I feel we could have an amazing relationship if he was willing to be even a little bit flexible and OCCASIONALLY come out with me and do an activity or have a yummy meal in a sit-down restaurant and just relax and enjoy each other's company. My feelings for him are strong but any time I think about becoming more than friends this stops me dead in my tracks. In the short-term I'm sure I could tolerate it because everything else is so good between us but in the long-term I know his constant cheapness would really upset me and severely limit what we can experience together as a couple. Do you have any advice for this situation? Is there any acceptable way for me to address this with him or would it be inappropriate given that I am not even his girlfriend? Is there any way to ask him if he would be willing to loosen his purse-strings a bit if he had a girlfriend? I should mention that while I am not 100% sure he would want a relationship with me all the signs are there. Thank-you for any advice!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 44 (view)
Second dates?
Posted: 10/29/2016 2:46:16 AM
I agree with LetitiaLeGrande and LJane_6. For the record 99% of the men I have been out with in my life on a first date have treated. Only one time, many years ago did a guy invite me out and it was obvious he didn't want to pay. In my experience, the men I have dated have WANTED to pay on a first date. I have taken a break from dating the last few months, but prior to that I went out with 4 different men from this site. They ALL paid the first date without hesitation, even though I sincerely offered to pay my own share. And they weren't cheapo first-date coffee dates either. Three of them involved several drinks and snacks at a pub. The other one the guy took me out to a very nice dinner. I did not expect to go out for dinner on a first date. It was his idea and he seemed very keen to do it. So if a guy asked me out and didn't pay? I would assume either a) he's not interested in me romantically and this is his way of letting me know b) he's interested but too damn CHEAP to pay (which would be a major turn-off for me since I don't like cheap people as I am not one myself) or c) he's interested but can't AFFORD to pay (which would also be a turn-off because at this point in my life I want someone who is in the same place as me financially - stable enough to be able to afford to treat the occasional drink, movie, or dinner out).

Incidentally, lest you think I am sexist and that men should always treat you are wrong. Out of the 4 men mentioned above, 2 of them made it to a second date. And guess who treated? I did. One of them was a dinner and the other one was a movie. So yes, reciprocity is important. But if a man asks a woman out on a first date, it is just shows good manners and class that he pick up the tab. For me it makes me feel good inside, it makes HIM look good and therefore makes it more likely that I will feel romantic attraction towards him. If a guy treats me like a friend then a friendship is all that he is going to get.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 29 (view)
Sexiest Musical Instrument
Posted: 10/18/2016 12:26:21 AM
Well I've played piano since I was 5 years old and before I did my Nursing degree I did a Bachelor of Music at one of the top universities in Canada (and the world). I'm also a classically trained singer. Believe it not the human voice IS an instrument. Also played recorder in elementary school (VERY unsexy) and trumpet in high school (also unsexy in my opinion but fun to play!). The problem for me is that I dated so many musicians in my younger years and most of them were arrogant, self-involved, conceited jerks who lived "only for their art" and cared little else about what was going on in the world (Jazz musicians are the worst for that). There are always exceptions. So personally a guy who plays an instrument doesn't do much for me since I've been a professional musician myself. It was my world for so many years so I don't see it as anything attractive in the opposite sex. Now a brainiac scientist who works in the medical or natural sciences field? THAT is a huge turn-on for me. But if I HAD to pick an instrument I would have to say guitar, depending on how the guy plays it. I have a guitarist friend I used to sing 16th century Renaissance love songs with. That guy freakin' MADE LOVE to his guitar. When he played guitar it was like he was having sex. I almost blushed at times in our sessions, lol!

So, nice to hear that some men find a woman who plays piano sexy :) What about voice? Does a woman with a beautiful singing voice do it for you? And if so what style of singing is the sexiest/ most attractive - Classical, Folk, Celtic, Pop, etc.?
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 29 (view)
Advice/Opinions Needed
Posted: 9/22/2016 12:37:24 AM
Don't stop meeting other people, but yes, by all means keep hanging out with her. While it is RARE that physical attraction can develop if it's not there at all in the beginning, it is certainly possible. I am living proof. Many years ago, I became platonic friends with a guy. I really liked him as a person but was NOT physically attracted to him AT ALL. I didn't find him ugly but he seriously did absolutely nothing physically for me at all and if someone would have asked me if I thought I could ever be attracted to him romantically I would have said "great guy, but no way." Well boy was I wrong. Now I have to admit that it did take quite a bit of time and a very emotionally close friendship. We became VERY close emotionally and were hanging out at least a couple of times a week every week. About 4 months into our friendship I sensed very strongly that he had romantic feelings for me and I realized I was falling madly in love with him. He ended up being the person I still consider my soulmate. It was an absolutely EPIC romance. Sadly we could not be together longterm. But my point is that YES, physical attraction can certainly develop when strong emotions come into play. But you'll need to decide how much time you'll want to invest in this if her feelings don't progress soon. If you're happy being friends with her indefinitely then perhaps that's how you should approach it and continue to date others. That way, best case scenario - she DOES end up developing feelings for you. Worst case scenario you make a friend.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 17 (view)
not the one liner i was hoping for
Posted: 9/17/2016 11:28:52 PM
gtomustang writes:

the good news is, if they weigh 300lbs, its not so much a problem. I have a female friend like this, age 47 but with the body of an 18 yr old. So, she can be as bad a conversationalist as she wants to be.

If only it were that easy. Just have a smokin' hot bod and the men will flock to you, conversation skills be damned. I don't find this to be true. I am 45 years old and still have the body that I had at age 20. I still look good in a bikini. I regularly get comments from men about how sexy my body is. But that has not made my luck any better in the dating department. Yes, I have received messages from hundreds of men here on POF. I am a good conversationalist by nature anyway so if I choose to respond to a message I am going to make an effort. But if all it took was a hot body to maintain a guy's interest I would be in a relationship right now. Furthermore, I decided to go against my comfort zone and messaged a handful of men on here I found attractive. A few responded, but more than 60 % didn't even answer back. So sorry gtomustang, but I don't believe that to be true. I wish!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 13 (view)
Help appreciated
Posted: 9/15/2016 1:56:31 AM
@cindi_rella: Here in Canada and the United Kingdom (where this gentleman is from) we have a thing called universal publicly-funded health care. So we can't use that as a reason to scam people. Americans, take a cue.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 3 (view)
Rejection due to type of pet; Did I put my foot in my mouth?
Posted: 9/1/2016 9:19:50 PM
This is a tough one. I totally understand what you're saying. I am a huge animal lover and while I have never had pet rats myself I know people who have and they absolutely adored them. Rats are incredibly intelligent, affectionate, and not to mention totally adorable! So it's a real shame that people have these false notions about them without ever having taken the time to get to know them.

One approach you could take is to simply not mention that you have any pets at first. Now if the guy actually outright asks if you have any pets, well you could simply say yes, but not get into the specifics. If he presses to know what type of animal, you could simply say "well usually I like to just introduce people to them in person." If you sense that the guy likes you and you like him and have already been out a few times, you could even say "well maybe you could come over sometime and meet them for yourself." Sometimes when someone has a prejudice, that quickly evaporates when they get to meet the animal and see how cute he/ she is.

Again, I would avoid mentioning what type of animal for as long as possible, and only tell the guy if he really pushes to know. But otherwise, try and keep it a bit of a mystery if possible. And if it's a guy that you're really clicking with and he meets your little rats, he may be pleasantly surprised. I find it pathetic that a guy would rule out dating someone he's clicking with just because the person has rats.

So try one of the above approaches or just keep your fingers crossed that you can meet someone who has an open mind.

I can tell you one thing man would ever come between me and my animals. Don't like or accept my cats and dog? Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 29 (view)
Happy 3 month trails
Posted: 9/1/2016 9:03:16 PM
Wow, this woman sounds like the female version of the last guy I dated (see one of my other recent posts for the sordid tale). We dated for about a month and then when we finally had sex he dumped me. Less than 2 months later he came back, we went out a couple of times, he made it clear he wanted to start dating again, but then nope - dumped me AGAIN. Has not asked for a third chance but has recently been messaging me again. Not sure why. I would think he wouldn't be so stupid as to ask for a THIRD chance, but if he ever did there is no way I would date him again.

We need to set this guy up with your girl - they can take turns dumping each other every other week! LMAO!!!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 29 (view)
Worst reasons you've given when dumped?
Posted: 8/28/2016 8:18:28 PM
Not so much reasons for dumping me, but some memorable lines from conversations that I had with exes when the end was obviously near:

"I don't enjoy your company anymore" (This was after a year of us being extremely close platonic friends and bound at the hip, so much so that he fell in love with me and asked me to be his girlfriend. We were together romantically for about 5 months and he had very obviously enjoyed my company right up until about a day before he said that, lol)

"Sometimes I think I want a relationship and sometimes I think I should just sow my wild oats. Back in England women didn't notice me, but here in Canada, I am always getting compliments about my accent and women are actually paying attention to me for the first time in my life." (Said by my British ex-boyfriend a couple of days after he begged me to officially label him as my boyfriend, to which I finally agreed after 4 months together. I decided to dump his ass 3 days after this lame comment)

"You are a very independent woman. I don't think I could keep up with you." (Said by one of my exes when we were discussing the possibility of marriage)

"I don't know...I just don't have that to desire to you know....CONSUME you." (He then breaks up with me. Six months later he BEGS me to get back together with him after I lived overseas for 6 months. He was "bi-curious" and as he's begging me to get back together says "I missed you so much, I even slept with a couple of guys while you were away!" Oooh, that's so romantic, lol. We did not get back together.)
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 6 (view)
Is chemistry effected by how long you wait to meet in person?
Posted: 8/28/2016 7:54:23 PM
I think it can affect it. Not quite the same thing, but related; I DEFINITELY think that how long you wait between the 1st and 2nd date or the 2nd and 3rd date can affect chemistry. For example if you really click with someone on the first date and you're excited to see that person again, you want to kind of ride that wave of momentum. If you wait too long to get together again, that feeling of excitement can slowly fade. Happened to me with the first guy I went out on a date with on this site. We had a very good first date and we both expressed interest in seeing each other again. He stayed in touch with me. But one week turned into two and by the time 2 weeks had gone by, I was turned off that he hadn't asked me out again and also the momentum had been lost. Then he suddenly started messaging and flirting with me again, but I had really lost interest at that point and didn't answer him.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 20 (view)
Is conversation this hard at our age?
Posted: 8/25/2016 1:17:14 PM
Wow, 3 dates already! Look at you OP, you stud! LOL
Glad we were of help :)

Let us know if any of those dates lead to more interesting dates!
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 7 (view)
Is conversation this hard at our age?
Posted: 8/24/2016 9:20:24 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the way you're chatting if that's how you usually chat with women. The last girl could barely spell though, so your writing shined in comparison, lol.

I'm pretty new to online dating myself so I'm still learning myself but I have found that guys tend to ask me out pretty quickly after we begin chatting. With this last girl, it's either one of two things; she was just having fun with the conversation but wasn't really interested OR it's possible that her comment "So u been on any dates yet...What u actually hoping for" was her indirect, passive way of giving you the chance to ask her out. Maybe at that point, you could have said something like "well how about we continue this conversation in person over a drink?" (or however you want to put it). Maybe when you didn't ask her out she got bored or disappointed and decided to not bother with the convo anymore. Either that or she simply wasn't interested so just bailed at that point.

How long do you usually wait to ask a girl out after you've been chatting for a day or two?
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 4 (view)
Is conversation this hard at our age?
Posted: 8/24/2016 8:33:10 AM
Seems like a pretty convo you guys were having. She seems to be making an effort. Would have been nice if she had asked you some questions about yourself too. But you did a good job keeping the conversation going - asking questions, making little jokes, and doing active listening. So what's the problem? What happened after the last line of your message? Did she just never write back?
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 3 (view)
Worst reasons you've given when dumped?
Posted: 8/24/2016 4:58:26 AM
I'm with you Diligite_Cordis. I think it's a total, disingenuous cop-out when someone breaks things off and doesn't even have enough courtesy or respect for the other person to be honest about what went wrong for them. I can see why one might hesitate to have an honest conversation if the other person is being highly emotional or is on the verge of having a meltdown or is about to flip out if you tell them the real reasons. But if someone is asking calmly, respectfully and maturely to please tell them why they are being dumped, I think you owe it to that person. I have been honest in the past with previous boyfriends and if pressed I would answer honestly to anyone. If however, I became physically turned off by someone over time, I would stop short of telling them that since that would be hurtful. But that's usually not the reason why one breaks up with someone. If you weren't physically attracted to you wouldn't have dated them in the first place. I have lost physical attraction for previous boyfriends with time, but I think that's just because I fell out of love with them because of their personality....and that then killed the sexual attraction on my part.

I am someone who feels MUCH better knowing the truth than being fed some lie to spare my feelings. Hurt my feelings with honesty! It's far more painful not to know. For someone like me who tends to overthink, overanalyze, and ruminate about stuff for weeks, it's a lot easier to just know the truth than for your mind to left to wonder what happened and go through EVERY possible reason under the sun why the person lost interest. Sometimes that can be DOZENS of possible reasons that leave you feeling like crap.

Just grow a pair and be honest with the person if they asking.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 16 (view)
Would you have a cyber sex relationship with someone if you weren't dating anyone else?
Posted: 8/23/2016 9:59:07 PM
Well I can report that yeah, while it can be fun to have some cybersex with someone you find attractive, it is not sustainable for very long and ultimately, it is hard for emotions not to come into play, even if you have no plans to have a real-world relationship with the person.

So basically my ex, who I was in a long-distance relationship with for about 6 months last year got back in touch with me a few months ago. We know the relationship can't work in the real world (he's in Australia, I'm in Canada and he is barely getting by financially). But the online sex was amazing when we were together last year. After he got back in touch with me a few months ago he soonthereafter started trying to "seduce" me (virtually) and get me to have cyber sex with him. I kept turning him down and told him that since we're no longer in a relationship and have no future together, I'm not into it. But that we could be friends. Well he didn't give up. He was messaging me literally EVERY DAY to chat...sometimes up to 7-8 times a day. It was borderline stalking. And it was like he became obsessed with getting me to cybersex. And if I didn't answer his messages in a timely fashion he would get all upset and try and guilt trip me into giving him more attention (ie. "you just don't care" "why are you avoiding me" "I know you're online" "it's funny you don't make any time for me" etc. etc.).

Well after my most recent "real-world" dating disaster, I finally relented and gave in and started having cyber sex with him again. But I'm not naive...I realized that it won't last forever and that when one of us gets into a serious relationship it would come to an end.

So for about the last 6 weeks we've been having cyber sex at least 1-2 times per week and he's been messaging me literally every single day. He also added me back as a friend on Facebook and invited me to play some online Facebook games with him.

Well the last time we had cyber sex was about 10 days ago. Then suddenly after that, I don't hear from him like usual. One day goes by, then two, then three, then a whole week. This is after he has LITERALLY been messaging me almost every day for the last 3 months, and when I don't answer him he gives me heck.

So I realize after not hearing from him for over a week, that chances are that this means he has started dating someone or is having a cyber-fling with someone else. Fine. But just freakin' tell me if that's the case. No reason we can't stay on good terms.

So I sent him a message saying basically that I found it odd that he hadn't been in touch with me for over a week and that must mean he is dating someone, and that's fine if that is the case, but why not just tell me.

He got all uppity, refused to answer the question and said "it's always me that says hi" and told me to "go back to bed" in a very condescending tone. So I wrote "What the f*ck is your problem?" Then he writes back "You're so full of it. I'm over you. Have a nice life." Then he UNFRIENDS and BLOCKS me on Facebook. WTF????

I don't understand how this guy goes from borderline stalking me for the past 3 months to suddenly not contacting me for a week, to suddenly blocking me. Meanwhile, anytime I haven't answered his messages in the past few months he gets pissed off and guilts me. But the one time I call him on his week of silence he gets all pissy and blocks me. I know he's an idiot and was obviously just using me for cybersex. Still, it hurts to be blocked by someone you once cared deeply for what seems to be a ridiculous reason.

Anyway, yeah the cybersex sessions we had were pretty hot. But it's not worth it when the guy starts acting like an a$$hole.

Won't be doing that with anyone again. :(
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 16 (view)
It was something he said.
Posted: 8/22/2016 12:45:28 AM
In your profile you write:

"I'm a nice person. I can be impatient and a little too big for my britches sometimes but hey, who's perfect?"

Well since you are admitting that you aren't perfect and thus, by deduction could very well say or do something in passing that might rub someone the wrong way (unintentionally), why not cut the guy some slack? If in the grand scheme of things, what he said was pretty mild and you otherwise enjoy his company or talking to him, give it a bit more time before ruling him out. Especially if he said whatever he said while you were out on a first or second date. People can be very nervous and not quite themselves on the first couple of meetings. This nervousness can sometimes come out in the form of awkward comments, but not necessarily be indicative of their true personality once they've gotten to know you a bit and feel comfortable around you.

People are very quick to judge and throw opportunities away...try not to fall into that trap over one little comment. If however this kind of commentary or invalidating attitude becomes a regular thing and it's obvious it's a character trait that's a different story.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
Are you a man with ADHD? Are you a woman who has dated a man with ADHD?
Posted: 8/20/2016 4:52:56 AM
I recently dated someone with ADHD, who also a few other mental and physical health problems. Being a compassionate and understanding person, I was willing to give him a chance because I really liked many things about him and the sexual chemistry between us was pretty hot. We dated twice, and he dumped me suddenly both times over relatively small things. He was taking meds for the ADHD and I didn't know him when he wasn't on meds so I can't compare. The meds seemed to be helping a lot. But since things ended I read up a bit on adult ADHD and it seems he displayed some of its symptoms while we were dating not just towards me, but in general as well, namely:

*Blurted out inappropriate comments
*Was moody and easily frustrated (would often rant negatively about people in his life, his bad day at work, etc. etc.)
* On our last date (after he pursued me for WEEKS), at the end of the evening he went from being Dr. Jeckyll to Mr. Hyde in under one minute after I said something he didn't like (even though I said it very positively and meant nothing bad by it). He then jumped to false conclusions about what I had said and was not interested in listening to what I thought or asking me any further questions to clarify.
* When annoyed with what I said, rather than talking about it, he lashed out at me and started insulting me
* Poor anger/ emotion control: After our misunderstanding he proceeded to be angry and sulked for the rest of the evening. This, after having been a perfect gentleman and in a good mood all evening prior to the misunderstanding.
* As we said goodbye, he asked to have sex. I told him I wanted to wait until later in the week. He kept bugging me to have it NOW (I read that ADHD makes the person want what they want when they want it). I turned him down and asked to wait a couple of days. He then immediately told me he no longer wanted to date me anymore!! Again, a very hasty, impulsive thing to do!

Plus, his relationship history indicates he gets bored with women after about 6 months (sometimes shorter, sometimes longer) and moves on to next woman. Also has a very casual attitude towards sex and has slept with MANY women.

So while his meds helped with some of his symptoms, it seems it's not helping with the above symptoms. OR, do you think this can't be blamed on ADHD symptoms and that the guy's just a jerk regardless?

ADHD MEN - Have you ever behaved this way with a woman/ women you dated? How has your ADHD negatively affected your dating life? Do you start and end relationships impulsively and then regret it? Do you always have one foot out the door because you are distracted by the thought of dating the next even more attractive woman that you can find? Are you less tolerant towards your girlfriend/ dates' behaviour because of your ADHD?

WOMEN WHO HAVE DATED MEN WITH ADHD - What's your experience been like? Does any of what I went through above sound at all familiar?

I don't think I would date a guy with ADHD again as this has left a sour taste in my mouth. And what's sad is that I know that people with ADHD need to be with partners who are compassionate, tolerant, and understanding, and willing to learn about it. I am all of those things, so would have probably been very good for this guy. But HE was so intolerant and turned such a small thing into a big thing that it ended the relationship before it even had a chance to take off. Quite the irony.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 20 (view)
Any never-married, childless women out there who met their first husband after age 45?
Posted: 8/17/2016 4:13:34 AM

Note the OP said ".....just as much as any other woman WHO WANTS KIDS". She didn't say ALL women want kids.

Thank-you Minimetoo for pointing this out. Apparently some people's reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. Perhaps they are the one that needs the "professional help."

Thanks to everyone here who actually offered intelligent advice, constructive suggestions, insightful opinions, encouraging words, or simply shared your own related personal experience. Isn't that what the forums are supposed to be for?

I'm always amazed when I see people posting comments that have little to no merit and are simply designed to insult the OP. Or go on a bitter rant that is clearly related more their own psychological issues than anything else. When people post something, open up about themselves (sometimes about very painful experiences), and genuinely ask for helpful advice, why do some feel the need to do this and be so negative? If you can't think of anything intelligent or helpful to say, then just STFU. Bad enough if you lack the ability to be empathetic or compassionate when someone shares a personal story about their life...but to go so far as to try and insult the person? I think it says a lot more about the person making these types of comments than it does about the OP it's directed at. Some people get a kick out of trying to make others feel bad to try and boost themselves up. Sad and pathetic but true. These forums are here for people to offer constructive ADVICE and moral support. Direct your hate and bitterness elsewhere (and stick it where the sun don't shine).
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 29 (view)
I need help. not attracting what I'm looking for.
Posted: 8/17/2016 3:46:29 AM
You say you want an old-fashioned gentleman, but an old-fashioned gentleman is not going to be interested in a woman who posts a semi-naked photo of herself in her underwear on a dating site. He will be even less interested in having a relationship with a woman who makes her living taking her clothes off in a bar and dancing naked for strange men. Are you actually saying that you are currently working as a stripper at age 55? I didn't think they hired women much past their 20s or 30s for that kind of thing.

Any decent, old-fashioned guy who see your main profile pic is not even going to bother reading your profile. It just send the wrong message and image. He will be seeking a woman who is attractive, can dress a LITTLE bit sexy but with class.

You need a serious image overhaul. Even though you are not, your photos make you look like a slut. I am not saying you ARE a slut, but that's how it comes across.

Listen to the advice here. Otherwise, you will continue to only receive messages from low-class, ungentlemanly players who will contact you because they figure you'll put out easily.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 16 (view)
Sexless Relationship in Georgia....should i stay or should i go?
Posted: 8/17/2016 1:57:49 AM
I'm always amazed when I hear about people choosing to have a kid with someone they haven't even been in a relationship with for very long. You barely knew him that early on in the relationship. You're still young, so why wouldn't you have waited until you were with him for a significant period of time or married to him? You would have found out about this problem before having a child and it would have been a lot less complicated to break up.

Having said that, it's too late to put the bun back in the oven, so hopefully you can work it out with him for your child's sake if there are other good things about him/ the relationship. As someone else mentioned, apart from his libido, what are his strengths? Do you love each other? Is he at least affectionate or cuddly, even if you're not having sex. Physical affection can help make up PARTIALLY for not having sex as much as you want because you're still connecting with the magic of touch. But if he doesn't even hug, kiss, or cuddle with you in ADDITION to barely having sex with you, that's pretty stark, and you will feel very deprived in the long run.

I agree with some of the other posters - you need to see a counsellor with him and if he refuses, then continue to go alone for professional help and advice. The other thing is he should see a doctor to determine if there is a physiological reason behind his low libido. Perhaps his testosterone levels are low (the hormone that heavily influences one's sex drive). In which case, he could be prescribed some. Is it possible he has some erectile dysfunction and because of this he is less inclined to have sex for fear of performance issues?

Whatever the case, you strongly need to suggest to him to see both a doctor and a counsellor because it is affecting your relationship outside the bedroom and your feelings for him. He needs to know that in the long-run, this will be a dealbreaker and that you don't see yourself staying in a sexless/ affection-less relationship. If he loves you and doesn't want to lose you, hopefully he will step up to the plate and do whatever he can to improve things.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 9 (view)
Any never-married, childless women out there who met their first husband after age 45?
Posted: 8/14/2016 8:50:45 PM
Thank-you sleeps_in_mouse_pajamas and diaboloacetin for the advice and words of encouragement. Good suggestions :)
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 8 (view)
Any never-married, childless women out there who met their first husband after age 45?
Posted: 8/14/2016 8:41:32 PM

This process of elimination could have eliminated a Mr. Right, if you're being super picky, and will only settle for total perfection. Are you totally perfect in every way?

No of course I'm no perfect. Far from it. And I don't expect or even WANT perfection in a guy. If you read any of my recent threads about my recent dating experience you'll see that the guy I did end up dating was FAR from perfect - had quite a few problems that would have led many women to not want to date him. But because he also had quite a few things about him that I liked, I wasn't going to not date him just because he wasn't "perfect." But I take your point about perhaps being more receptive to some messages from some guys. I tended not to respond the messages that were boring/ lacking effort, but it's true that there could be an interesting guy behind a boring first message once you get to know him.

In another thread, the OP stated she wanted to be monogamous but not have the bf/gf distinction for at least 4 months.
She met a guy that did not treat her like a boyfriend and just wanted a roll in the hay.
Not sure what she expects when she's sleeping with men that she doesn't feel are boyfriend material.

ClooneysTutor, why the eff are you picking on me? Sounds like you have an axe to grind. I wrote you an extensive reply to the similar comment you left on my other thread. Did you even read it? Not that I have to defend myself to you, but I explained in great detail why it generally takes a few months before I start feeling more deeper "boyfriend" feelings towards a guy I'm seeing. For me it is not a superficial term (I know for some people it doesn't have much meaning) to refer to someone as my "boyfriend." So it takes a few months before I do. And the guy that I dated and slept with recently I did consider to be a potential boyfriend. Otherwise I would NOT have had sex with him. I liked him, was enjoying his company, was physically attracted to him and we had a lot in common. So I saw potential there. Obviously that changed after he acted like a jerk the last time we went out.

Again, sorry you had negative experiences with some women who held out on calling you their boyfriend. As I said in my other thread, just because you dated some b*tches who used the label as a manipulative tactic doesn't mean you should judge all women who wait a while before using the b word. Everyone is different.

When I hear a story like the OP's all I can think is that she could have accepted kids into her life at any time, but she choose to keep everything at arm's length - waiting for ... PERFECTION. Kids rarely come at the perfect time

I actually wasn't waiting for the perfect time at all, but I was waiting until after my career was established (which wasn't until my 30s), met the right guy to have them with, and got married. I did not want to be a single mom or having kids with some guy who's not even my husband. I wanted my kids to grow up in a 2-parent, stable household. But because I never got married the kids thing never happened.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
Any never-married, childless women out there who met their first husband after age 45?
Posted: 8/14/2016 6:16:20 AM
Turning 45 very soon. When I was much younger I always envisioned myself married with kids long before this age. Had several long-term relationships in my 20s and 30s (lasting anywhere from 2-4 years, and a number of short-term ones as well). I consider myself an attractive woman who has a lot to offer as a partner. I have never had problems attracting men and the 3 long-term relationships almost led to marriage. But for a variety of complicated reasons, which were different in each case, they came to an end. I ended 2 of them, and my last one ended because my life was in shambles because of a very traumatic event, life-destroying event and I could no longer be the partner that my boyfriend needed me to be, so he called it off. While I wish he could have loved me enough to just wait it out and weather the storm with me until I recovered, I partially understand why he could not. Trauma puts a TREMENDOUS amount of strain on a relationship and they don't all survive it. He was a good guy and treated me like gold for most of our relationship so I don't hate him for ending it. But it was very sad.

I stayed away from dating for the next 7 years to try and pick up the pieces up of my shattered life. Managed to do that for the most part. Got back in the dating game earlier this year by trying OLD for the first time. I recently had a very negative dating experience. I was closed off and anti-relationship for so many years it was really hard putting myself back out there, but I decided to take a gamble and give it a shot. I was very selective about who's messages I answered and even more selective about who I accepted a date from. Met what I thought was a super nice guy, dated him for a bit, took a leap of faith, had sex for the first time in 7 years.....and promptly got dumped after only one roll in the hay.

This has left me feeling VERY discouraged. I've already had to accept that I won't be having children of my own which makes me really sad because I wanted to have some just as much as any other woman who wants kids. I've always adored kids. So of course I'm envious of all my girlfriends who managed to do that. But I will just have to accept that it was not in the cards for me. I will never know what it's like to be pregnant or the joy that comes with loving and being loved by your child. But now despite my best efforts, I am losing hope that I will ever meet a decent guy that I find attractive and who feels the same way about me. And I'm no spring chicken and feel like over the next 5-10 years I will be losing my looks as well. I want to grow old with a great guy but now feel like my age is working against me.

Has any never-married person out there ever met their partner after the age of 45 and also gotten married FOR THE FIRST TIME to this person? How did you meet them and how long did you date before getting engaged? Did you find it harder at this older age to do so? Why did you not meet your spouse earlier in life? Any advice or tips or recommendations?

Really feeling discouraged. :( I just don't want to be one of these people who grows old alone, dies, and a pack of wild raccoons breaks into my place and eats my body before anyone can discover it.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 78 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/10/2016 5:38:26 PM
Thanks for responding again. Your point is valid about my dating style being different from his. Yes I prefer a more straight-forward traditional style of dating (ie. once you start having sex with someone, you don't date/ sleep with others, but rather focus on the person you're with and explore where things can go with them). It seems for him he likes to start off casually with women, not be exclusive and keep his options open for quite a long time. So yeah, our styles don't mesh. And to be honest his style is not a style that my previous boyfriends have had, and they weren't exactly super traditional guys. But it was obvious after a few weeks of dating me that they weren't going to be dating others, by their own choice. So this guy threw me off with his uber-casual, non-exclusive approach.

You asked him if he has seen anyone since you. Thats a little invasive, he ended it with you, what he did after that is up to him. I dont understand why you asked this? I'd be a bit wary of someone if I ended it and they asked me this. He gave you an honest answer and your upset

Well I didn't put it like that but yes I did say in a friendly way "So how's your dating life been going the last few months?" Given that he's been active on this site for several months, any time I've logged on, I just assumed he had been dating people. I was surprised that he said that he hadn't been dating anyone. And then it was HIM who VOLUNTEERED that he had had sex with someone. It was a bit weird to hear him say he hadn't dated anyone but had slept with someone. It didn't UPSET me so much as kinda made me wary and gave me the impression that he sleeps around a lot and will even have a one night stand with someone he's not dating. Very casual attitude towards sex, and it was a bit off-putting to me, rather than upsetting. Made me feel like if he could sleep with someone so easily when he's not even dating them, that he would be the type to be sleeping with multiple women at the same time.

[quote}Your boundary setting around sex is a bit off as I mentioned before. I'd expect someone who was confident in sexual relations to be able to put them in more effectively. Everything is a bit serious as well. It's sex, it's fun, it's not a box with a set of rules you must follow.

Well actually I do have a very fun approach when it comes to sex and him and I had a lot of fun building up sexual tension over many weeks leading up to our last date. I am very playful in that area. We had actually been having detailed conversations about all the fun we could have in the bedroom and what we were looking forward to doing. However, I am not on board with a situation where I'm having sex with a guy if he wants to have sex with other women at the same time. How does that boundary of mine imply that I'm not confident in sexual relations? I really don't understand. So a woman is only sexually confident if she's okay with the guy she's dating sleeping with other people? Would appreciate if you could clarify that.

I've never had an exclusivity chat. I just assume we are. I generally focus on the relationship as a whole not just sex. If we are going out and about and enjoying ourselves the sex comes naturally.

I agree, and generally that's also been how things worked in the past. But with this online dating business it seems to be a whole other kettle of fish. I mean it would be naive and presumptuous to "assume" that you are exclusive with a guy when you've met him from an online dating web site and you actually SEE that he's online on the site literally every single day. So what does one do in that situation? You've been dating someone for a little while (let's say a month) and you're having sex with them and seeing each other fairly regularly but you see that he's logging on to the dating site every single day. Obviously if he's doing that he's not being exclusive and is fishing around to see what other women he can meet or communicate with. Remember I met the guy off this dating site. He never shut down his account. Quite the opposite - he was logging on every day. Ok, if this goes on for a little while. But what if several more weeks go by and he's still active on the site? How does one bring this topic up?

I guess I would just prefer to know BEFORE I sleep with a guy what his views on sexual exclusivity are so I don't make false assumptions (ie. thinking I'm the only woman he's having sex with when that is NOT the case). I am not down with being a guy's sloppy seconds. Not only is it gross, it also tells me that he's not focused on getting to know me properly and giving our relationship a proper chance. Plus a guy that is willing to f*ck other women while he's having sex with you clearly isn't all that into you. I would rather know that before I have sex with him to avoid getting hurt. Once I sleep with a guy, if the sex is good, it really makes me have stronger feelings for him and I want to avoid that if he's not reciprocating it. So how the frick do you find this out BEFORE you sleep with a guy you've met online?

As for 'acts like a jerk ect' if you honestly believe that then why are you so upset about it?

Well because before he acted like a jerk he acted like a nice guy and I liked him and was looking forward to getting to know him better. So yeah, of course it's upsetting when someone you like starts insulting you and then tells you they don't want to see you anymore because you won't invite them into your house to have sex. Like, what??? It's very hurtful being treated that way. So yes, I think he's a jerk, but it still hurts.

I think he has been honest, you just don't like what you heard.

Actually he wasn't straightforward or honest with me, and that's where the big problem is. I would be less upset if he HAD just communicated honestly with me. As I've said before in this thread, when I asked him in a light-hearted manner if he wanted us to date other people, THAT'S when he should have been honest. He should have said "Yes, I'd like to keep this casual and for us to be free to date other people." Then I probably would have asked him if that meant also sleeping with others and he should have answered honestly. But he was anything but. It was at that point he started insulting me and made it clear that he didn't even want to answer my question or discuss it. He turned into a sulky schoolboy. That's hardly him being honest.

If you don't like the truth about him and are unable to accept him as he is, or if he isn't offering what you are hoping for, move on, it's as simple as that. If you want to get to know him then bend and adapt with him, learn from him his ways and teach him yours. Just don't expect it to be forever. It's not about the relationship it's about getting to know the man imo.

Yes, well I am moving on now, and even if I wanted to continue to get to know him that's not an option since he told me that night after I didn't sleep with him that he doesn't want to date me anymore, just be "friends." I did not answer that text and we haven't had contact since. Even if he wanted to date me at this point, I'm not interested. I would not trust him as far as I could throw him. He pursued me for weeks the second time around but then breaks up with me because I don't invite him into my house to have sex? What a f*cking a$$hole move. And how can you have even a casual relationship with a man when he's not even capable/ willing of having a BASIC adult conversation about what his feelings/ intentions are? I can only imagine what a terrible communicator he must be in a relationship.

I'm done with him. Does make me sad though that he had so much of what I like in a man. But this has also left a VERY sour taste in my mouth about online dating. Not sure how to get around this "I'll keep shopping for bigger and better"/casual mentality that people seem to have with OLD.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 75 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/10/2016 6:36:56 AM
{quote]Sounds like there's no gray area between boyfriend and fiance from your perspective.

Ummm, what gave you that impression? Geez, there's a HUGE difference between a boyfriend and a fiance for me! And for any sane person. If things are going well I'm usually in a boyfriend/ girlfriend thing within a few months. But a fiance? That would take AT LEAST a couple of years with the guy before I would even consider getting engaged to him. Calling someone your boyfriend after 3 months is a far cry from considering them your future husband (although obviously I'm feeling that at some point in the future my boyfriend could turn into a husband if things go well for a couple of years). So yeah there's a HUGE grey area between boyfriend and fiance. Anyone who considers a new boyfriend a soon-to-be-fiance is nuts in my opinion.

I think you're rushing in and offering sex to keep a guy on the hook.

Again, what specifically leads you to believe that? Everything I have said indicates the opposite. I knew this guy for 6 weeks before I had sex with him, of which 4 of those weeks were regular dating (one date a week with regular contact in between). And after sleeping with him I didn't consider him my boyfriend... but rather someone I was dating and interested in getting to know better. Doesn't sound like "rushing in" to me. And I didn't "offer" sex to keep him on the hook. I had sex with him because I wanted to, because I found him very attractive, was extremely turned on, and trusted that we would continue to date each other after having sex for the first time. I was wrong on the last part though. If I felt that the only thing that would keep a guy on the hook was sex, I wouldn't even bother. I want a guy to date me for ME, not because I'm putting out.

Also, the fact you described this guy as an overweight, health plagued geek seems like maybe you think he should be grateful to have a woman more attractive then himself. Maybe you thought if you picked a guy that wasn't as attractive as you that he'd commit more easily?

No not quite. I certainly didn't think he should be "grateful" to have a woman a bit more attractive than himself. I've said several times in previous posts that DESPITE him being overweight and having physical and psychological health problems, I was STILL VERY attracted to him. He had a very cute face in MY opinion, and I actually like a guy with a bit of meat on his bones. His health problems were concerning but I'm a very compassionate and non-judgmental person so I would never not date a guy because of that. And the bottom line? I loved many aspects of his personality, and we had much in common...and to me that trumps his looks and other problems. Personality is ultimately what makes the man sexy (unless he's butt ugly...not much personality can do there). The reason I mentioned his flaws is NOT because I didn't find him attractive, but rather that I found that for someone who objectively has so many flaws himself, he's pretty arrogant, judgmental, and intolerant of other people's flaws (mine included). And you would think that someone with so many problems himself wouldn't be so quick to dismiss attractive women he's dating over relatively minor things. You would think that he would be a bit more open to giving a woman he likes a chance and not just drop her at her first faux pas. He acted like a guy who thinks he's so great that he's holding out for Miss Perfect and won't accept anything less. THAT'S why I mentioned his flaws...not because I wasn't attracted to him. I was VERY attracted to him and he turned me on bigtime. Objectively I was SLIGHTLY out of his league, but didn't expect him to be grateful...not at all. But I did think he should at least give me a chance and not be such a jerk to me. I actually felt lucky to have met a guy I liked that much. I just don't think I deserved to be jerked around by him and dropped over the slightest infraction. He said and did many things while we were dating that were off-putting. But did I drop him over them? No. Because in the grand scheme they were pretty minor and I appreciated his strengths more than I disliked his flaws. He however towards the end, acted more like an arrogant player who thinks they're so good-looking and so awesome and such a catch that they shouldn't settle for merely a regular attractive, smart, funny and kind woman like myself. He's acts like he's holding out for Miss Model With No Personality Flaws. I'm attractive, but certainly not a model and while I feel I have a lot to offer a man, I am keenly aware of the fact that I am FAR from perfect and have flaws. I have my own quirky foibles. But since I am aware of all of this I don't expect perfection in the guy I'm with either. But I would hope he would have enough self-insight to also have that kind of an open-hearted and open-minded attitude. Especially since he's claiming to want a long term relationship. But clearly not in this guy's case.

clooneystutor, obviously you sound very cynical about some things due to some b*tches you have dated in the past. But you seem quick to don't know me, and even after I explain that I don't play games or jerk guys around, you are still convinced that somehow that's what I'm doing. But everything I have said is completely truthful...I hate games, I hate the dating scene bullsh*t, and when I'm dating a guy I treat him very well and am completely honest with them. I am a good-hearted person and am very sad about what happened with this guy...I'll get over it though. I will however be a lot more cautious in the future...As for you, try not to judge other women so harshly and assume the worst just because you've had some bad experiences with douchebag b*tches.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 73 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/10/2016 2:55:58 AM

I've been with some women that treated me as you described OP.
No labels but wanted the serial monogamy.
You know how that comes across to me?? Pure manipulation.
Like, I'm stuck in some probationary period while you vet me. Probe me.
Maybe you want to suck the courtship right out of me? Make me WIN you over?
As 1 gal explained, she wanted to work 2 days a week before she'd put a label on it.
Another wanted a home owner.

clooneystutor: If you've had negative experiences before with women who wanted to purposely "hold out" on certain materialistic conditions being met before putting a label on your relationship I can understand your feelings. I can't speak for those women and if they are using it as a form of manipulation then that's completely unacceptable. I cannot speak for their possible ulterior motives in doing that; I can only speak for myself. For me personally it's a psychological thing based on how deep my feelings are for the guy. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with him performing certain behaviours or providing certain things. I need to feel that I'm falling in love with a guy (and vice-versa) and that we will be there for each other, at least in the short term, before I consider him my "boyfriend"; that he's become an integrated part of my life, has met some of my friends and maybe even a family member; and that I feel that I know him at some deeper, beyond-superficial level. None of that happens in the short space of dating someone for only a month or two, even if you are having sex with them. It's not about putting some arbitrary timeline on it (ie. I quoted '4 months' as an example of how long that MAY take, depending on the relationship, not as a 'rule.'). To me the word "boyfriend" conjures up something more serious than just saying that you're "seeing" or "dating" someone regularly.

My personal approach is that until the time that I have deeper "boyfriendy" feelings for a guy I consider him the man that I'm seeing or dating. I am most certainly monogamous sexually with him, and if I am sleeping with him I am not going to even bother going on dates with other men. Not my style, not my emotional makeup, and frankly I don't have the time or energy to regularly see more than one man at a time. I know some people throw labels around casually and pretty early on in a relationship with someone they barely know...but for me calling a guy my "boyfriend" has a more serious meaning to it.

What exactly do you want to know about the men you shag for a couple of months before you put a label on it?

I want to know what kind of character he has, what he's like as a person beyond a superficial level. Is he truly a trustworthy good guy? I want to see that he's become a somewhat regular part of my life and that I can depend on him for certain things. I want to feel a certain level of emotional closeness and familiarity with him. I want to see if he has been sexually monogamous the last few months we've been dating (I can usually pick up on dodgy behaviour after a while). I want to know that we are both committed to giving this relationship a go beyond the short term. All these things take time and aren't things that happen in the first few weeks you're dating/ sleeping with someone. As I said, it takes me a while to develop "deep" feelings for someone. There's absolutely no pressure on my part for the guy to become my boyfriend...I'm not stuck on that label. And since I don't have a casual attitude towards sex, if I'm sleeping with a guy it means that I find him very attractive, like him as a person, and I am certainly not shagging other men. It means that I see potential for the future and am exploring that with him. But I would never automatically call a guy my boyfriend just because I've had sex with him a few times. Again, for me it's a more serious term. But I can understand that for some people it's not that big a deal to call someone their boyfriend or girlfriend after only dating them for a few weeks.

I find women like you manipulative game players. You keep men on the hook with sex and dangle relationship carrots to see how far the men will go to keep you.

Well I'm sure there are women like that and that sucks that you've dated some. But that's definitely NOT me. There's no game playing on my part waiting to label something. And I've found that the guys I've had relationships with didn't care about labels in the beginning either...there were one or two that I dated who complained after about 4 months that I wasn't calling him my boyfriend. But the reason I wasn't is 'cos the guy was acting like an untrustworthy, immature idiot so I just didn't feel that way about him (and I subsequently broke up with him). But looking back, any SUCCESSFUL long term relationship I've had I've noticed that we started referring to each other as boyfriend/ girlfriend within less than 3 months. And it just kinda happened organically. We didn't discuss it...we just started catching ourselves using those terms naturally and introducing each other that way to people "ie. Hi Bob...hey this is my girlfriend Lisa." But we were having sex after about 1 there was a 2-month gap where we were simply "dating" monogamously without labels.

This guy prolly figured out you want to be WON OVER and figured he'd play along with your PEZ dispenser as long as he can.

Again, sorry if that's been your experience with some women. Not cool. But no, that was not what happened in this case with this particular guy. We never even had the chance to discuss labels or lackthereof because he shut me down so quickly when I tried to bring up the topic of sexual exclusivity to see if we were on the same page. That's when he started insulting me (as you clooneystutor put it so well earlier in this thread "he thought that he could insult you into avoiding that conversation."). I couldn't even find out from him if he wanted to sleep with multiple women, let alone discuss what our feelings about when the boyfriend/ girlfriend label would be applied. If anything I sensed that he WANTED to feel that he still had to win me over. He said "we are still in the courtship stage and I should still be trying to win you over." It was as if he was implying that because I wanted sexual exclusivity that this meant he had already 'won' me...and that he didn't like that....that he felt that it was too soon to feel like he had won me over to the point that I no longer wanted to f*ck others...he perceived it as me no longer being a challenge to him. I think that he ASSUMED that because I was willing to be sexually exclusive that this meant that I was "committing" to a serious relationship and trying to lock him down as my "boyfriend." That was a false perception on his part, but I think believing that freaked him out and turned him off. Of course if he would have just had a conversation with me like a normal adult he would have learned that I wasn't trying to push him into a committed, serious relationship right away...that I just wanted to establish what our sexual boundaries were.

So I get clooneystutor your point if you've had negative experiences with women holding out on calling you her boyfriend, but that's not my mentality. From what I've read, you and I are on the same page as far as our approach to monogamy. The only difference being that I generally take longer to refer to the guy I'm seeing as my "boyfriend". And if anything, with this guy, it seems that he is quite happy to date a woman for SIX months without even referring to her as a girlfriend (hence his 2 relatioships last year). So I doubt that me being the type to wait to label it was a factor in his decision to not date me anymore.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 69 (view)
I want to have my cake and eat it too
Posted: 8/9/2016 6:22:32 PM

On one hand, you want to be sexclusive, but on the other hand, you don't want a label either for at least 4 months.
Why would you want to continue sleeping with someone that you don't consider boyfriend material?
Shouldn't you figure out that answer first before sleeping with them, AGAIN?
Your strategy clearly didn't work with this chap.
He DID NOT treat you like a boyfriend after the first shag.
You didn't want a boyfriend so soon and he didn't treat you like one. What's the problem?
Seems like you got something backwards in your logic.

I just don't see sexual exclusivity as the same thing as being boyfriend/ girlfriend. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. To me calling someone my "boyfriend" has a more serious connotation to it and means that they have become a major part of my life and that there is a mutual commitment to TRY and make it work beyond the short term. I would need to have a certain level of deep feelings and attachment to label a guy my boyfriend. Maybe for some women that happens quickly, but for me it takes time - at least a few months to feel that way. And yes, I would only sleep with someone who I felt had the POTENTIAL to become a boyfriend and who I want to be with in at least the short term, and who feels the same way about toward me about giving it a chance. And I would only sleep with someone who I've developed some affection for...someone who I like and feel some compatibility with.

I DID NOT expect him to treat me like his girlfriend after the first shag and I had no plans to immediately start treating him like a serious boyfriend either or label it as such. I did however assume we would continue to date each other - I did NOT expect him to stop dating me so abruptly after the first shag. I thought we would continue spending time together at least, getting to know each other better and continue to have sex and NOT sleep with other people at the same time. What's wrong with having sexual exclusivity and not having a label such as boyfriend/ girlfriend? What if you want to have sex with someone because you like them but don't want to put labels yet on the relationship? Is it unreasonable to want them to not have sex with others while they're sleeping with you? I dunno, I didn't think I was out to lunch on that.

Since I am someone who takes a few months to develop DEEP feelings for someone enough to call them my boyfriend, are you suggesting that I not have sex with them until then? That's way too long for me to wait if I'm attracted and I would think it would be too long to wait for most men as well. I'm also monogamous when I'm sexually active with someone.

Or are you guys implying that until I consider someone my boyfriend I should just have sex with them no strings attached and not even ask them if they are sexually monogamous? And risk dating someone who's f&cking multiple people and then only find out he was doing that months down the road? Please clarify...
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 66 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/9/2016 4:26:02 PM

Ok, imo you appear to have high expectations of dating...

That may be true. I never had major issues in the past with dating (other than the usual that everyone complains about) but I only recently have tried online dating for the first time in my life. And I certainly never dated anyone who ever acted like this guy, thankfully. And I am already feeling that it's a very different thing than dating that happens organically when you meet someone in real life and neither of the two people dating have online dating profiles. I am starting to realize that it seems that most people approach OLD much more casually than dating having met via more traditional methods. So yeah, I guess I'm going to have to adjust my expectations of OLD accordingly and try and develop a much more casual mindset myself. Either that or just stick to more traditional ways of meeting people, which has worked well for me in the past.

...without the necessary boundaries or self worth to obtain that with this man

Ouch. No need to insult me personally, especially without even knowing me in real life. So why do you have the impression exactly that I don't have the necessary "self worth"? And self worth for what exactly? I have no issues or lack of confidence in terms of what strengths I feel I have to offer in a relationship. I feel I have a lot to offer and consider myself an attractive woman. I have had several successful long term relationships in my life and have even received a couple of marriage proposals from former boyfriends. So no, I don't have self worth issues when it comes to men. Not sure what I've said in any of my posts to make you say that.

I'm not sure he is a player. It depends on his interpretation of a girlfriend and the set up around each one to decide if he was messing anyone around. Lots of people date casually, have sex but don't consider it gf/bf. It's not my choice but plenty do and manage that. So he ended with you and a few months later had sex with someone else? I wouldn't consider that a player, he didn't mess you around as soon as he knew he didnt want a relationship with you he let you know. A player would of left you dangling, dipped in and out, or had sex with you and her without a second thought. A man having a one off threesome is normal for those brave enough to go for it. If it was a regular thing and he wanted you to take part in it, then yes maybe hes a player. A man having a one off sexual adventure is......a one off sexual adventure.

I can't be 100% sure either that he's a player. But many signs, added all together (not each one on its own) point to it. And it wasn't me who first suggested this guy is a player. Other posters here also brought it up and used that term to refer to him and it seems that the majority opinion here is that the guy is at very least a jerk or a$$hole and behaved poorly.

Yes, lots of people date casually and if both parties are into that then more power to them. Nothing wrong with that. But communication and honesty is key. This guy right from the very beginning told me multiple times that he is searching for a long term relationship. NOT "I'm ideally hoping to find a long term relationship but am also ok dating people casually or having one-night stands in the meantime." Even on his profile, it DOES NOT say the standard "looking for a relationship" which is what most people put. But rather he chose "ACTIVELY seeking a relationship for long term." Even I don't have that on my profile. With me, the first time we dated we ended up having a one-night stand because he ended it right after that. If he didn't want a relationship with me, don't you think he shouldn't have slept with me? He knew I was looking for something meaningful and long term because we had talked about it. I also told him that I had never had casual sex before in my life because any time I had sex it was with men who I was in a relationship with. So why invite me over to his place and sleep with me if he knows that?

He dated at least 2 women last year for 6 months each and he ended it with both of them. He said that they were both quote "very upset" when he broke it off. So clearly they felt it was more than casual with him. Not saying that alone makes him a player. But why were they not good enough for him for him to consider them his girlfriend after a number of months together?

Just to clarify; there was only a 6-week gap between when he ended it with me the first time and then contacted me again a second time and invited me out. So he ended it with me and then had sex with someone a few WEEKS later, not months. Guess it was another one-night stand because he said he hadn't "dated" anyone since me.

So maybe he's not a player, maybe he is. He's certainly not being completely honest with the women he's dating about how casual he wants to keep things. And that's not cool. Three women in a row now who have been hurt by his casual attitude and him breaking it off...without any explanation as to why. He couldn't explain why he broke it off with the previous 2 women - just that it "never progressed beyond dating." I would have had less of a problem with his behaviour if he just would have been an honest straight shooter with me. In the entire time I've known him and spent time with him (since March) he never once said he only wanted something casual with me or even anyone in general. Not once. I gave him many openings to tell me that's all he wanted with me, and he never indicated as such. He also knew that I was only looking for a serious relationship since I made that clear from the beginning. So the fact that he came back and pursued me for a second time, one would logically think "ok he has always only said he's looking for a long term relationship, he's never once said he only wants casual with me, and he knows what I'M looking for, so we must be on the same page."

Yes, I liked him, found him attractive and enjoyed his company and wanted to see where things could go. But it takes me months (usually at least 4) of dating a man before I would consider him or call him my "boyfriend." Guys that I have dated before have even complained that I wasn't calling them my "boyfriend" after a few months. So contrary to what some people implied here (I'm lookin' at you Norwegian Guy ;) ) I was not looking to jump into a full-blown insta-relationship with him. That takes time. But I knew that given the chemistry and sexual tension between us that we would end up having SEX very soon (he said he couldn't wait and discussed at great length all the things he was looking forward to doing with me). So I felt that I needed to address the issue of SEXUAL exclusivity with him. I would not want to be sleeping with a guy if he is sleeping with someone else, even if we are only "casual" and not boyfriend/ girlfriend. I just think that's gross. So the reason I asked him if he wanted us to be dating other people is because he had already made it clear to me that he couldn't wait to start having sex with me again...and I wanted to find out from him if he was the type to have sex with more than one woman at a time. If he had said that he wanted to be free to have sex with other women, I would have told him I liked him but would have declined to start dating him again. Sexual exclusivity doesn't necessarily mean that you are in a full-blown, committed relationship with the person or that it means you want long term with the person. It just means that for however long it lasts, you've both agreed to not shag other people. You may even still be going on dates with other people, but stop short of sleeping with them. That's the conversation I had wanted to have with him, but he shut me down right away. I guess I accidentally gave him the impression that I wanted an insta-commited relationship with him. But really all I wanted was to talk about was the sexual aspect. Like loveisatemple commented earlier just be honest with the person; he should have just come out and said "I only want casual right now with you and I think we should both have the freedom to sleep with other people unless it gets more serious." It's the lack of honesty and mature, straight communication that makes it so upsetting. And clearly I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I am now struggling with how, in future situations, to broach the topic of sexual exclusivity with a guy you're dating. Let's say you are dating someone for a month and it's getting hot and heavy and you're about to have sex. How do you as a woman broach the topic of sexual exclusivity with a man BEFORE you sleep with him without freaking him out or giving the impression that just because he's the only one you're sleeping with that that means you consider him your boyfriend? I would not want a repeat of this with another guy. It's funny because with my last serious relationship it was so simple. We had been dating for about a month, things got hot and heavy and I knew we were about to have sex. I said to him "just curious...are you the type to have sex with more than one woman at the same time? Because if that's what you want that's okay, but then I won't have sex with you, as much as I would like to." His answer? "No, no! I'm not into that. I wouldn't sleep with more than one woman at once." We then proceeded to f*ck like rabbits. See how simple it can be when 2 people are willing to communicate maturely? We never had any other serious "where is this relationship going" talk and eventually just morphed into boyfriend/ girlfriend. That relationship lasted 4 years and we almost made it down the aisle. But then again, I didn't meet him online so maybe that's why it was less complicated. So I don't want a future guy I'm dating from OLD to feel I'm pushing for a serious commitment early on from him when that's not the case (I see sexual exclusivity as different than a commitment or calling someone your "boyfriend"). Any recommendations on that would be much appreciated. Thoughts from men on how to communicate on that?

In the end, who knows if this guy is a player or not. I can say with certainty however, that he is not completely honest, says things that are misleading, has a very casual attitude towards sex, acts like a jerk rather than communicating in a mature manner, and seems to have unrealistically picky and shallow standards of a woman before he's willing to open his heart to her and consider her "good enough" for him. By his own admission he told me he's "much pickier" than he used to be. And apparently none of the last 3 women he dated (myself included) were good enough to be labelled as a "girlfriend" or worthy of long term. Yet he couldn't put a finger on why they didn't measure up. And all 3 of us got hurt (by his own admission). Yet he's not exactly God's gift to women. So what gives? As a couple of my real life friends said to me; he will end up being one of these guys who continues to serial-date for years to come, having one superficial relationship after another, but never settling down with anyone because he thinks he's too good for them and deserves perfection. Then one day at age 50 or 60, after his health has continued to decline and he completely loses his looks, he will wake up, wonder why he's alone, and look back and regret having tossed aside so many good women. Or maybe he won't care. Who knows.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 63 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/8/2016 11:53:54 PM

I agree with you that just because a guy isn't interested in pursuing something serious with YOU specifically, that that doesn't make him a player. This is not a case of that on my part, that just because he ended it, I'm feeling so lousy that in order to save my ego, I'm resorting to calling him a player. Not at all. Like everyone, I've dated men before that I really liked that ended up not being interested in a relationship and I accepted that and did not consider them players for it. With this guy, it's the whole picture that adds up to it. As I mentioned in my previous comment in response to loveisatemple, things revealed themselves over time that have led me to that conclusion (as well as numerous other commenters on this thread). He hasn't had a "girlfriend" in several years despite being on and off POF during that time. However he has had sex with multiple women during that period of time. Last year he dated (and slept with) 2 women for 6 months each, seeing them regularly. Now don't you think that a guy who TRULY wants a SERIOUS relationship would, by the 4, 5, 0r 6-month mark consider a woman they are dating regularly as their girlfriend? Not this guy. He said he never considered either one of them to be his girlfriend. So good enough to hang out with and f*ck, but nope, not good enough for him for a serious relationship. Nice eh? He dumped them at the 6-month mark. When I asked him why, he couldn't give a real reason, just that it "never progressed beyond dating."

He also told me that since him and I dated the first time around a couple of months ago, that he ended up having sex with someone not that long ago. But when I had asked him earlier in the evening how his dating life had been going the last few months, he said that absolutely nothing had been happening and that he hadn't been dating anyone. So this woman he slept with wasn't a date?

And finally, he also told me that a couple of years ago he had a menage a trois with 2 female acquaintances one night, unplanned and spontaneous.

So let's see - by all of this we are seeing a guy who is extremely picky (unrealistically so) and clearly expects a woman to be out-of-this-world PERFECT for him to call her his girlfriend. But that he will sleep with any woman he finds attractive. And gets pissy when the woman (me) that he wants to have sex with wants to find out if he plans on shagging other women at the same time. And refuses to discuss it. Clearly he didn't like me asking because that's exactly what he wanted to have the freedom to do. So a guy who's ok with sleeping with multiple women at the same time but won't tell them if he is planning to do so.

So NorwegianGuy - still think his behaviour isn't that of a player? I think for most people it meets that definition.

As for your suggestion that I should have asked him if he was looking for casual BEFORE I went out with him, I felt that was something that was best discussed in person. We were messaging and texting a lot, but not talking on the phone. Human communication is complex and tone of voice and body language is crucial. So to me bringing it up on the date in a friendly light-hearted manner (which is how I brought it up) was the way to go. But even that approach set him off. He wanted to have sex with me with no questions asked beforehand. Looking back, there are things I would have definitely done differently that night while I was out with him and I take full responsibility for my role in all of this. As I have said before I am a flawed human being, don't expect to be with someone who is not flawed, and am always looking to learn from situations to improve myself and my behaviour for future relationships. So yeah I'm sure I could have handled a couple of things better (including the fact that in hindsight I should not have made out with him in the car - one of guy friends in real life also told me that was a bad move on my yeah my bad on that).

But given all the positives between me and him, and our common niche interests and the fact that we were really enjoying each other's company and are both very physically attracted to each other, do you think my minor missteps warranted him ending it, even if he only wanted casual? I mean the guy would have gotten laid a couple of days later, but that wasn't good enough for him. He was pissed that I wouldn't f*ck him that night and that I had the audacity to try and find out in a respectful way if he wanted to sleep with other people while he's sleeping with me. Do you think that warrants dumping a girl you're attracted to and enjoying your time with, even if you only want something casual with her? Why not just say "I only want something casual with you right now" and be respectful of the fact she doesn't want sex that night? How hard is that? I just have the impression from you that you blame me for the fact he acted like a royal jerk when we went out and that seems pretty unfair. I was willing to give him another chance because I liked him and wanted to hear what he had to say. That doesn't give him a free pass to act like an a$$hole, which he did. I was very respectful and fun and sweet with him all night, so I really didn't deserve the way he talked to me at the end of the night or to be dumped just 'cos I wouldn't put out on the spot.

So to me this all adds up to what loveisatemple succinctly said before:

"Well you thought he was a "nice guy". A lot of players are pretty amiable, charming in a fake way, have fairly successful lives and do not overtly reek of sleaziness. A few do not consider themselves players, claiming to want a 50 plus ltr like their folks, BUT, no gal does what they want 100%, or are perfect 100%, so they must dump these blemished peaches and keep looking for Miss Perfect, still claiming they aren't a player, just nobody is damn good enough, poor them, so "unlucky in love". Meanwhile they are dating the whole town."

Of course if you think there's any evidence to indicate this guy is actually looking for a serious relationship in general, then please share that with me. I see none, given his very casual relationship/ sexual history the last few years with women and how he also behaved with me. Other than the bogus "looking for a long term relationship" on his profile. And even if he is in his heart hoping for that someday, all this "player-like" behaviour on his part is only shooting himself in the foot. Mature people who genuinely want a serious relationship don't act that way. If you treat women casually then a casual relationship is all you are ever going to get, especially if you don't give obviously potentially compatible people a real chance.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 62 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/8/2016 11:13:24 PM
Just to clarify for those of you who are wondering why I mentioned his various flaws and referred to him as an "overweight, health-plagued geeky guy"; I wasn't just saying that to insult him or try and downplay how attracted I was to him. As FullMoonGuy commented I did indeed find him very attractive and loved his personality. And that's the whole point I was trying to make - that DESPITE all his many flaws I still found him very attractive because of what I perceived to be his strengths - easy-going conversationalist, quirky sense of humour, quite cute and we had A LOT of shared geeky interests (hence the "geek" reference). So my point was simply that it is possible to CHOOSE to overlook someone else's flaws in order to give a relationship with them a shot. If I had CHOSEN to focus on his flaws, rather than his strengths, I would not have found him that attractive. But being a 45-year-old woman I am realistic enough to know that EVERYONE comes with baggage, physical and personality flaws, annoying habits, etc, and will sometimes say or do something - even early in the dating process - that could annoy you or turn you off somewhat. After I dated him the first time around I was telling one of my girlfriends about him - both the good and the bad. As soon as I mentioned even a couple of his "flaws" to her she immediately said "Oh my gosh, you so don't need that! Too much baggage and problems!" And this was even before I had a chance to finish the list of all his physical and psychological problems.

So my point was that if I am able to look past his glaring flaws to give the relationship a chance (EVEN in the short-term...I don't think much beyond the next month in the beginning of a relationship) then why does he choose not to do the same? He clearly enjoyed my company, made it extremely clear that he was VERY physically attracted to me. The conversation always flowed very well between us and we laughed a lot every time we were together. He's got a very quirky sense of humour and I found his jokes hilarious and he appreciated that I found him funny. And on top of that, we shared numerous unusual "niche" geeky interests. So even if you're not head over heels in love with someone from the get-go, given all of the above, wouldn't you at least give the person a chance if you were TRULY looking for a long-term relationship in general? I would think that most reasonable people would. Which is why I now truly believe he is only looking for something casual. You are far less tolerant of people's foibles or their behaviour if you only want something casual. I wanted to know if he wanted us to date/ have sex with other people and asked him about it. That, combined, with me not giving in to having sex with him was enough for him to say "forget this"? Like WTF. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a guy who's generally looking for a serious relationship doesn't just dismiss someone over a relatively minor thing such as this if the woman has other qualities he's looking for, enjoys hanging out with her, and the physical attraction is strong. He will however end it if he's only in a "casual" mindset. But even then, I find it highly bizarre. He could have just said "I only want something casual right now". And it's not like I said I didn't want to have sex with him at all - just not that night. I even alluded to the fact we would have sex in a couple of days when we got together. So even if he only wanted casual with me, why the heck would he end it over such minor things? It's like loveisatemple pointed out...that some guys are just so unrealistically picky and cannot tolerate a woman not behaving the way he wants 100% of the time. So as soon as a woman shows any flaws, or says or does something he doesn't like, it's time to break it off and move onto the next one....and the next one....and the next one. Intolerance and unrealistic pickiness can often lead to a guy acting like a player, even if it's not his intention to be one.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 53 (view)
He ended it, but now wants another chance. Do I give it?
Posted: 8/7/2016 2:25:25 AM
First of all let me say thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far. I REALLY appreciate it and have read each and every one of your posts. I have had no contact with him since that unpleasant night and do not plan to. I really wish there was a way to respond directly to individual posts instead of having to cut and paste quotes. There's a few of you whose comments I will respond to directly over the next couple of days. To start:

loveisatemple writes:

Well you thought he was a "nice guy". A lot of players are pretty amiable, charming in a fake way, have fairly successful lives and do not overtly reek of sleaziness. A few do not consider themselves players, claiming to want a 50 plus ltr like their folks, BUT, no gal does what they want 100%, or are perfect 100%, so they must dump these blemished peaches and keep looking for Miss Perfect, still claiming they aren't a player, just nobody is damn good enough, poor them, so "unlucky in love". Meanwhile they are dating the whole town.

I think you have hit the nail on the head loveisatemple. I don't think this guy considers himself a player, but the fact is, even if your INTENTION is not to be a player and you don't consider yourself one, if you end up acting like one and hurting people as a result, then that DOES make you a player. It's now apparent to me, that like you said "nobody is damn good enough" for him. He told me he was seeing 2 women last year - each for 6 months at a time (supposedly not overlapping). Despite being with each of them for SIX months he never considered either of them his girlfriend, and ended it. He said it never got to that level of seriousness. So they were good enough to hang out with and shag for 6 months, but not good enough to be his girlfriend? This was a red flag to me, but I didn't consider it enough of a red flag at the time to not continue to get to know him. In hindsight it screamed unrealistic pickiness and "not-good-enough-for-me" syndrome. He also confessed to me when we went out last time that he had actually had sex with someone sometime in the 6-week period after he dated and dumped me the first time. Yet earlier in the evening he had said he had not DATED anyone since him and I had parted ways. OK, so you banged someone but didn't consider them a date??? WTF. I realized right then and there that this guy has an EXTREMELY casual attitude towards sex. Clearly it's no big deal to him and he will sleep with anyone he finds attractive, whether dating them or not. Eww. Hardly the behaviour of someone claiming they are looking for a long-term relationship.

OP, this guy seems even worse, he double dipped here, firing you twice. I mean, he said he was not feeling it the first time. So, what the hell?The truth is, sadly, being a prisoner to their nads. They should just be honest: I could care less about a future with you, you will do for now and don't get lippy or uppity or demanding or have needs or expect me to be emotionally invested.

Exactly. What I find so sh*tty, borderline-unethical and disingenuous is the lack of honesty. First of all, DO NOT put on your dating profile that you are "actively seeking a relationship" for "long-term." Maybe he is OPEN to that at some point far down the road with a woman (assuming she is perfect in every way), but clearly that is not what he is looking for immediately or in the short-term. He should really choose the "looking to date but nothing serious" option so he doesn't mislead or waste the time of women who are genuinely looking to build something long-term. And clearly he is using POF to get laid casually in the meantime. So just be honest to the woman you are dating that that is all you are looking for! And that you are planning to multi-date and possibly sleep with multiple women at the same time.

As for you saying "no gal does what they want 100%, or are perfect 100%, so they must dump these blemished peaches and keep looking for Miss Perfect, still claiming they aren't a player, just nobody is damn good enough" - again, bang on. And that's the problem. You see, like everyone I am FAR from a perfect human apparently despite all my many qualities, the fact that most men consider me a 'catch,' and all the good feelings and chemistry that had been building up for weeks between us, none of that mattered when I said something that remotely displeased him (ie. me asking him if he wants us to be dating other people). Time to dump me and move onto the next girl he meets on this site....until she says or does something to turn him off or displease him. Then rather than talk to her about it or choose to overlook a relatively minor offense, just throw the whole baby out with the bathwater and start over again.

Meanwhile this guy is about as imperfect as one can get - has multiple physical AND mental health problems, is not making much money right now due to starting his own business recently, grew up without either of his parents (which clearly caused some of his psych. problems), is moody, etc. etc. But in his mind he expects his future girlfriend to overlook all of his faults without giving her a pass for any of hers, LOL. Totally unrealistic, entitled, and hypocritical.

Apparently the overweight, health-plagued geeky guy is now the new player.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 13 (view)
Is it because I am middle eastern or ugly?
Posted: 8/6/2016 10:57:47 PM
I'm with Ouija2025 - go to Profile Reviews and ask for feedback there. But briefly; you are handsome so it's not that you're not good-looking enough. However, as mentioned you are not exactly tall so if I were you I would also message women who are on the short side themselves (ie. less than 5'5). Spelling and grammar are very important to most women (who know how to spell themselves). I will not answer a guy who has poor grammar/ spelling. Why? Because I want someone who is intelligent and fairly educated, and if you are making a lot of mistakes, it gives the IMPRESSION of not being too bright (even if you are). Also, you might want to change your username to one that is more about who you are as a person - not your ethnicity. One's identity is not tied up only to one's ethnicity. Give someone a chance to get to know you before advertising that you are Middle Eastern.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 1 (view)
Would you have a cyber sex relationship with someone if you weren't dating anyone else?
Posted: 7/31/2016 2:06:41 AM
I was in a long-distance relationship last year with someone in Australia. I am in Canada, so it doesn't get more "long distance" than that. It lasted 5 months. The only thing that sustained it is because we had made plans for him to come visit me earlier this year here in Canada AND the fact that he was willing to move to Canada if things worked out. He even started to look for jobs here. We sustained it through multiple messages and texts every day (always a "Good Morning" and "Good Night" message and lots throughout the day in between. We Skyped on video about every 2-3 days for sometimes up to 2-3 hours each time. He would send me random pics from his day - pics of his co-workers, him working etc. I introduced my sister to him via Skype. And there were lots of daily "I love you"s. On the sexual side, let's just say we got very creative with camera angles, lol. And I can tell you I had many satisfying orgasms throughout the months of our cyber sex life. I am being completely honest when I say I was genuinely falling in love with him, and cared for him very deeply.

But for a variety of reasons - major health problems and financial difficulties on his end, it all came to an end at the end of last year. I was heartbroken, but within a few months was over it and had moved on to dating people locally.

After several months of no contact, out of the blue he contacts me and has been pursuing me for weeks now in the hopes we can resume our cyber sex life. I am currently single, having had a recent dating disaster. I miss sex. I am over him emotionally and don't want a "relationship" with him because I see no future in him. But man, he is absolutely gorgeous (in my mind), has the sexiest accent in the world, and when I see him smile, it makes me melt. Not to mention a body to die for. So you know what? I said screw it, and tonight we had cyber sex and I even reached orgasm. So at this point, having cyber sex with a real, sexy, gorgeous guy who I'm comfortable with beats pleasuring myself alone in my bedroom.

Of course, as soon as I start dating someone here in real life that will immediately end. But until then, why not enjoy it while it lasts?

Has anyone else here ever had a regular cyber sex life with someone until you met someone in real life?
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 124 (view)
What Do You Do When You Can't Be With The One?
Posted: 7/26/2016 3:46:57 PM
OP - many years ago I was exactly where you are now. I had been in relationships before and even loved my previous boyfriends. But all those relationships were eclipsed by the one I had with the person I considered my "soul mate." We were madly in love and he treated me like a queen. It was a relationship born of deep friendship, respect, mutual admiration and passion. I really had never experienced anything like it before and I knew I wanted to marry this man and have children with him. Unfortunately due to him being of a religion that he would not marry outside of, combined with major geographical separation when I moved back to Canada (he was on the other side of the world and I had met him while studying overseas), we could not sustain it. I was never so heartbroken in my life. I actually did not have another relationship or even sex for another 3 1/2 years because everyone I met nor the depth of our interactions could ever measure up to him. So it took me YEARS to get over him and be willing to give another guy a real chance. But I finally did. And I can tell you that there is no such thing as "The One." There are many potential "The Ones" in the world for you. I have since had strong feelings and love for other men. Every relationship is different so you will never have a relationship that is the same as the one you had with her. But they could be just as good, just for different reasons. No two people are ever alike and no two relationships ever feel the same - they each have their strengths and weaknesses. So don't move forward thinking you will find a clone of her because you won't. And that's okay. But you WILL meet other women who are just as amazing, if not more so, and while your relationship with them will be different, it doesn't mean it will be any less meaningful. It's still early days if you only broke up in December. It might take you a couple of years to get her out of her system. But eventually if you CHOOSE to see the good and awesomeness in other women you can fall in love with someone else and make a life with someone else.
Joined: 4/27/2016
Msg: 4 (view)
In what ways do some men change (in an annoying way) soon after going exclusive with women?
Posted: 7/24/2016 2:51:38 PM

What's stupid about modern dating that people think getting that quick 'exclusivity' promise is the same thing as being engaged or moving in together...They just want that stupid promise so they feel less guilty about having sex or being less than perfect for whatever reason. It's as stupid as announcing your relationship in Facebook. It means NOTHING. It's a freaking label!

That may apply to some people wanting exclusivity when they're dating someone, but not for everyone. I recently tried to talk to a guy that I dated a number of times about exclusivity. NOT because I was in love with him or even thinking beyond the next month with him (ie. I was not even predicting how "long-term" our relationship would be). But I knew we were about to get down and dirty and I think it's pretty nasty to be having sex with more than one person at a time. So I wanted to talk to him and ask him if he is SEXUALLY exclusive when sleeping with a woman or if he thinks it's cool to be sleeping around. Also wanted to know if he was okay with me sleeping with another guy while dating him (not that I would do that, it's not my style, but I wanted to know what HIS mentality was). Because I don't feel like picking up a disease and frankly even if the other woman he was sleeping with was 'clean' it's just gross and is a turn-off in my book. So for me exclusivity is more about "okay, I don't know how long we're going to be dating for - it could be a month or it could be a year or two - but however long it lasts I am only into having sex with you if I know you are not planning on having sex with other people while we're together."

In this particular case trying to have this conversation with this guy blew up in my face. I think he interpreted me bringing up exclusivity as me meaning that I wanted to jump into a serious relationship with him. Which wasn't the case. For me to feel "serious" about a guy and start calling him my boyfriend take many months. So I never got to explain to him what I meant by "exclusivity" because he clearly didn't want to have the conversation. I think it means different things to different people.
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