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 Author Thread: Medical Insurance for all
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 206 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/10/2009 3:55:11 PM
You are so very RIGHT, Sorot! That's why so many of us are capitalists -- NOT because we are "greedy". It's because we care about what's best for our country, not just ourselves.

That's also why so many emerging countries, and even some European countries are shedding socialism -- because socialism is a failure. But free market capitalism has brought the US the highest standard of living in the world. For everyone.

The US does not have the highest standard of living. Purchasing Power Parity, had been declining since 1974.
there are 11-13 countries with better standards than the us.

I used to work in a stock marker where traders worked sholder to shoulder and it sounded like a football game. Today it looks like a ghost town.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 92 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/10/2009 3:46:10 PM

Along can Bill Clinton, ~ pushed NAFTA through ~ and erased the National Debit. ~
Why? How? did that happen? ~ we worked our way out of debit.

Clinton cut unemployment to about 4%. By adding millions of jobs, he added the number of people that actually pay taxes without access to the loopholes. I don't think NAFTA had as much to do with his surplus but I could be wrong.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 90 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/10/2009 9:46:30 AM
So instead of helping the unemployed get jobs at the Smithsonian,
working on projects that improve buildings,
programming computers,
move offices into more efficient buildings,
build and maintain cars, do climate research,
count how many people there are,work on roads,
dams, bridges and clean up the national parks,
build ships, railroads,
preserve historical sights,
grow food, and the myriad of other jobs proposed,

it's just so much easier to let them remain unemployed and unemployable so they can call them lazy mooching leeches which takes no forethought or intelligence at all.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 5 (view)
The Fair Tax Plan-Good or Bad??
Posted: 2/10/2009 7:24:55 AM
It's a great plan for the greedy that are upset at having to care about poor people.
It's all the same justifications of 'I work harder than lazy people' so my way will be better.

The website is mostly for proponents to find bickering points against our current system, which isn't that great because of the loopholes for the rich, but those that like the loopholes see it as an increase on their taxes.

Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks.

Why are them rich illegal aliens getting caught when they take advantage of them loopholes on their tax returns?

In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here.

Right we should depend on foreigners to pay for our own government.

Then there's the stock market, paying taxes on the purchase of stocks will devalue the value of those stocks before their purchased, that will help eliminate more investment and the rich will pull out and put more people out of work.

Getting rid of FICA will mean old people can die sooner and that just fits in with the greedy not having to care about other members of society.

I highly expect the retorts of the lazy mooches and leeches theories and to those that think they have to work harder than the rest of us I say suck it up and pay because I'm not going to bicker. You could take some of your hard earned money and hire a moocher and leech to reduce your tax burden instead of griping about how hard you work.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 11 (view)
Where Did it Go?
Posted: 2/10/2009 6:55:22 AM

if you don't recognize the reason for a problem, how do you correct it? if liberal policies are the reason for this mess why is it not appropriate to say so?

Fortunately, we did recognize the problem and started replacing republicans and bushies with intelligent people.

it was a plan put together quickly, and though not perfect had better oversight than obama's stimulus plan.

You're joking right? Why did this oversight commette not stop the billions in bonuses to the guys that steered their companies to bankruptcies?

How will you judge the website in Obama's plan that will disclose his expenditures?
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 110 (view)
Bush's Legacy
Posted: 2/10/2009 4:23:24 AM
George W. Bush (Dubya)
Currently cowering from public view
Somewhere in Texas

Past Work Experience

Ran for congress and lost.
Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments in Previous Positions

Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

Set record for most executions by any governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments As President

Attacked and took over two countries.
Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).
First president in U.S. history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board.
Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
Fist U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
Successfully prevented the auditing and investigation of $12 billion missing from the Iraqi war.
Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.'
Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.
Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available)
AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.
Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 32 (view)
From The President
Posted: 2/10/2009 3:52:29 AM

Student loans are no longer dischargeable in any chapter of bankruptcy unless you can prove that repaying the loan creates an undue hardship on you or your family. Prior law allowed their discharge once they had been in pay status for 7 years. The law changed in the fall of 1998.

I was in a coma and missed that law but I actually was referring to Bushies 2005 law that overhauled the bankruptcy laws so ALL people suffering from hard times couldn't use bankruptcy as a relief from falling on hard times. Coincidently, that was the same time the housing market started to dive.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
From The President
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:41:30 PM

Why do I have to pay back my student loans and not default, essentially looking at massive payments per month until I'm dead, while the Big Three, AIG, and now specific, choice Americans are given a pass on their debt and their supposed "mistakes" like the mortagage crisis, and various other poor decisions?

Well your buddy Bush took away your option to include those student loans from bankriptcy and approved giving AIG all that money so they could give bonuses to people that are already rich. And he relaxed the rules that allowed banks to sell people on the idea they could afford loans that had escalating interest rates.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 59 (view)
Date A or B or neither???
Posted: 2/9/2009 12:56:31 PM

Question- once a woman is over 45 is it too much to think that the "fireworks" feeling will happen like it did before? or should I be lookingmore at mutual comfort and see if something develops?
I feel like the Oklahoma Girl " I'm Just a Girl Who Can't Say No" !!
I dont want to hurt their feelings
I dont want to string them along, but what if I am giving up on something possibly with a really good future? and would I know that by now if that possibly was him?

Oh! Just wait for the fireworks like the first guy you divorced. That worked out well didn't it?
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
Where Did it Go?
Posted: 2/9/2009 12:43:58 PM

Example, buying a home that you can't actually afford, even though you could get a loan for it.
Example, misuse of personal credit (i.e. credit cards) and purchasing things when you don't actually have the necessary cash on hand. Misuse of said credit until debt outweighs actual personal worth.

The banks were one cause of credit misuse due to their extension of credit to those not actual capable of its safe use.
Also, the Clinton administration added to the housing problem with their plan of "Putting everyone in a home even if they don't have the money/credit to purchase one."

Right, blame poor people and those that try to help poor people.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Where Did it Go?
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:54:43 AM
The Federal Reserve is a corrupt monopoly of bankers that is the source of all money.
Guaranteed to produce bankruptcies for the powerless and manipulate unemployment to prevent inflation. They play with interest rates appearing to help when times bad but knowing that there will never be a way for all the borrowers to pay them back.

Top that off with an emotion driven stock market where the wealthy can use fear to drive money to themselves and leave the little guys wondering why their savings in a 401K turns negative.

I think the only way to minimize the chances for this happening again is to eliminate the FED and have congress take charge of the money supply again instead of allowing some private bankers dictate our monies value. Maybe even create several competing supplies of money so we can choose the supplier with the best value.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 13 (view)
Sarah Palin, Caroline Kennedy, social class, dynasty, the evil media elite
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:05:24 AM
Kennedy grew up in a family known for talking about the issues with concern for helping people got a law degree from Columbia
Lets call her an intellectual elite as though there's something wrong with having a brain and using it.

Palin grew up in a beer drinking household with animal carcasses piled up in the front yard and took 6 years to get a degree in turning the knobs on a radio and came to power by back stabbing everyone that helped her along the way.

The evil media elite could not find any stupid statements from Kennedy but Palin gives them a gold mine of idiocy.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 187 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:28:19 AM
Ronjo...The bash from Kev is an everyday occurance...get used to it. He is out of liberal talking points!
People think it is so damn easy to cover everyone with free health care...they do not look at the big are we going to pay for it? Do they want a lesser grade of service? Do they want to regulate a physicians pay? Think doctors are going to stay in the profession for 1/3 of the pay?
It is not a right to free health is not a right to food is a privilege.

Some people are to dumb to see that THEIR premiums would be lower with universal health care but still complain they have to pay too much already.
Doctors would have the same net income when their insurance rates are regulated as they should be.

The bottom line in the argument against universal health care is greed.
Doctors and insurance CEO's want their Mercedes and stock options.
Drug and medical supply companies want to sell medicine for as high a price as possible, for $100.00 a month they can sell pills and bits of plastic that cost a few pennies to produce and distribute.


Instead of giving you a link to a site with a conspiracy theory, I will quote from a site that is about universal health care.

Written by a couple of doctors:

The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

Outline of Talk Given To The Association of State Green Parties, Moodus, Connecticut on June 4, 1999

By John R. Battista, M.D. and Justine McCabe, Ph.D.

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money

Myth Three: Universal Health Care Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services
Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.
Myth Four: Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice
Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved
Myth Five: Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public
Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system (see The Harris Poll #78, October 20, 2005)

Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country
Myth Six: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient
Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.

Fact Two: The same procedure in the same hospital the year after conversion from not-for profit to for-profit costs in between 20 to 35% more

Fact Three: Health care costs in the United States grew more in the United States under managed care in 1990 to 1996 than any other industrialized nation with single payer universal health care

Fact Four: The quality of health care in the US has deteriorated under managed care. Access problems have increased. The number of uninsured has dramatically increased (increase of 10 million to 43.4 million from 1989 to 1996, increase of 2.4% from 1989 to 1996- 16% in 1996 and increasing each year).

Fact Five: The level of satisfaction with the US health care system is the lowest of any industrialized nation.

Fact Six: 80% of citizens and 71% of doctors believe that managed care has caused quality of care to be compromised

And what do the other doctors think?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than half of U.S. doctors now favor switching to a national health care plan and fewer than a third oppose the idea, according to a survey published on Monday.

The survey suggests that opinions have changed substantially since the last survey in 2002 and as the country debates serious changes to the health care system.

Of more than 2,000 doctors surveyed, 59 percent said they support legislation to establish a national health insurance program, while 32 percent said they opposed it, researchers reported in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine.

The 2002 survey found that 49 percent of physicians supported national health insurance and 40 percent opposed it.

"Many claim to speak for physicians and represent their views. We asked doctors directly and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom, most doctors support national health insurance," said Dr. Aaron Carroll of the Indiana University School of Medicine, who led the study.

"As doctors, we find that our patients suffer because of increasing deductibles, co-payments, and restrictions on patient care," said Dr. Ronald Ackermann, who worked on the study with Carroll. "More and more, physicians are turning to national health insurance as a solution to this problem."


The United States has no single organized health care system. Instead it relies on a patchwork of insurance provided by the federal and state governments to the elderly, poor, disabled and to some children, along with private insurance and employer-sponsored plans.

Many other countries have national plans, including Britain, France and Canada, and several studies have shown the United States spends more per capita on health care, without achieving better results for patients.

An estimated 47 million people have no insurance coverage at all, meaning they must pay out of their pockets for health care or skip it.

Contenders in the election for president in November all have proposed various changes, but none of the major party candidates has called for a fully national health plan.

Insurance companies, retailers and other employers have joined forces with unions and other interest groups to propose their own plans.

"Across the board, more physicians feel that our fragmented and for-profit insurance system is obstructing good patient care, and a majority now support national insurance as the remedy," Ackermann said in a statement.

The Indiana survey found that 83 percent of psychiatrists, 69 percent of emergency medicine specialists, 65 percent of pediatricians, 64 percent of internists, 60 percent of family physicians and 55 percent of general surgeons favor a national health insurance plan.

The researchers said they believe the survey was representative of the 800,000 U.S. medical doctors


If you wish to help doctors implement universal health care you can go to this link.

Our Mission: Single-Payer National Health Insurance

Greg Silver, MD (Fl.)
The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 47 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.

This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $350 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 181 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:23:58 AM

I know according to some in here that if they cannot pay their own way they would be considered moochers and leeches. The weird thing about that ... the very ones who are in favor of the illegal war and sending them over to get injured and killed ... appear to be the very ones who are opposed to getting them affordable medical care when they return ... opposed to Universal Health Care.

Scary how demented brainwashing works isn't it? I'm supposed to read about some dumb terrorist conspiracy theory to justify why universal health care is only for moochers and leeches.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 63 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:47:45 AM

I have a really difficult time believing that we could have arrived where we are and no one could see it coming, it's almost as if we were guided to this point. We no longer have the manufacturing ability that powered our economy, trade agreements made it to easy for american based corporations to leave the county and then sell back to us, add in giving China favored nations status and the out come for us had to be obivious

There are those that saw it comming but mostly kept it quiet because they were looking for short term gains at the cost of millions of jobs.
The wealthy controllers of economy know that when jobs are plentiful workers are able to command better wages by leaving a poor paying position for a better paying job. To keep employees around, employers have to give raises or other benefits like less expensive health care which cuts into their profit margins.
By insuring negative job growth, the employers can depend on the fear of employees keeping their jobs to cut salaries and benefits because there is no where for them to go to get better jobs.

When there is positive job growth, more people can afford to invest in stocks and the wealth gets spread out at the cost of the wealthy loosing control over having money flow into their coffers. So the wealthy spend lots of time money and effort trying to convince regular people that there is something wrong with the current situation that must change.

Rather than recognize Clinton did so much for average workers, reducing unemployment and improving their access to wealth, millions were spent to prove he got a BJ and hurt his family.

With the stimullus package going through, to help average workers you will see many attacks on the government by the wealthy because unemployment will go down again and their fortunes will shrink again. Obama. putting caps on the compensations of the robber barrons is kind of upsetting to them as they won't be able to spend $50,000.00 a month like their used to. They won't be getting 200 million a year for destroying the economy.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 20 (view)
Date A or B or neither???
Posted: 2/7/2009 3:48:31 PM
Obviously you should take the advice of whoever has been here the longest. After all, they must have heard it all by now and should be able to tell you about people they've never met.

The difficult thing might be trying to figure out who's actually been here the longest because they get booted or leave and come back with a new start date.

If you decide to dump them, you will never have to figure out why you might get dumped, so in order to display self esteem do it before you begin to have any feelings for them.

Just think of how much you save in the cost of fireworks, after all that short lived excitement, the fireworks are charred bits of trash anyway and if they explode in your fingers it hurts.

There is no such thing as a loving caring relationship that you grow into (except for me). And there is no such thing as feeling lonely when you can boast about being happy alone.

Why should you care about hurting someone's feelings? After all, they both should be treated as objects with a shelf life.

The more you dump them, the easer it gets to dump them and you'll be able to tell lots of stories about not finding the fireworks or chemistry and provide lots of wishful thinking about meeting the right ONE. There is only ONE guy that will match your needs so don't ever settle and you will appear so strong at sticking to your guns no one will ever want to ask you for a date except the ONE.

And when you do spot the ONE, just ignore that he is already taken or has dozens of women he strings along because they think he is the ONE for them. YOU will know that you won't be strung along too while he is waiting for his ONE and only.


On the other hand, you could just talk with these guys honestly about how you feel and make decisions on how you interact with them instead of seeking advise from a bunch of women that have trouble dating.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 178 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/7/2009 9:51:00 AM

February 26, 1993 attack by Terrorists on the World Trade Center. President: Bill Clinton.

Yes I must concede I made an error.

6 days after Clinton took the oath, the trade center was attacked. Which would mean Clinton was able to prevent more attacks without having to bankrupt our economy, take away some of our rights, and violate the Geneva conventions in the process.

I don't understand how a bunch of volunteers was an expansion of government and I don't understand what any of this has to do with [Medical Insurance for all except for drastically reducing the unemployment roles.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 174 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/7/2009 7:47:38 AM

Any country is subjective to Terrorists Attacks but thanks to our Homeland Security
in the (gasp) Bush Administration, We have not been attacked at home since 9/11.

By that logic(?) no one attacked us in previous administrations and so they all must have done a better job than
Bush and they didn't have to expand the government to do it like bush did.

If you consider the attack on our economy from within, no one has done more damage than Bush.

But I digress, this thread is about medical insurance for all if you haven't noticed.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 33 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/7/2009 6:25:14 AM

You see...there is one word that pops up several times in your post...allegations,allegation,alleged ...the last time I allegation WAS AND IS NOT PROOF!
The obama on the other hand has had it proven that his cabinet postitions would have been filled by liars and cheats...
Brain transplant indeed...pot to kettle?

Being that this thread is about Steele and Limbarf I am commenting on that and pointing out what I've found about them.
Why don't you start a thread about the topics you're trying to use to distract us and I'll talk about them there.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 172 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/7/2009 5:40:20 AM

Like I said in many other threads, there is politics, organized and legal mafia such as many governmental authorities in some countries, and there is illegal terrorism in some other countries. When these terrorists become in power then they suddenly become legal. Also, there are normal civilian people like any other civilian person in any country. Based on my vast experience, there is no much difference between a decent family in Senegal, Ukraine and USA. They all are decent peaceful, hard working people and just want a normal life without political nonsense.

Hijacking your own thread I see.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 128 (view)
Ann Coulter attacks single mothers in her new book.
Posted: 2/7/2009 5:38:22 AM
In September 2002, Washington Post columnist Lloyd Grove wrote a column titled, "Mystery of the Ages", raising questions about Coulter's actual date of birth.[73] At the time, Coulter was insisting that she was not yet 40, despite media reports to the contrary. Attempting to resolve the discrepancy, Grove noted that Coulter had given her date of birth as December 8, 1961 when she first registered to vote in 1980 (the year of the Reagan-vs-Carter presidential election), in New Canaan, Connecticut, where the legal voting age is 18. He said that Coulter's Connecticut driver's license also listed her birth date as December 1961, but pointed out that a driver's license issued to her years later in Washington, D.C., gave her date of birth as December 1963.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 31 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/7/2009 5:34:25 AM
Michael S. Steele, the newly elected chairman of the Republican National Committee, arranged for his 2006 Senate campaign to pay a defunct company run by his sister for services that were never performed, his finance chairman from that campaign has told federal prosecutors.

Steele paid $75,000 from the state campaign to a law firm for work that was never performed; and that he or an aide transferred more than $500,000 in campaign cash from one bank to another without authorization.

The bank transfer was made against the explicit wishes of other Maryland Republicans, who had hoped to use it to support the campaigns of state legislators, said aides to Steele and former governor Robert L. Ehrlich Jr.

In one of his allegations, Fabian points to a February 2007 payment by Steele's Senate campaign of more than $37,000 to Brown Sugar Unlimited, the company run by Steele's sister, Monica Turner. Campaign finance records list the expense as having been for "catering/web services." Turner filed papers to dissolve the company 11 months before the payment was received.

In a separate allegation, Fabian described the bank withdrawal. After the 2006 election, an aide transferred the funds that had been raised for Steele's lieutenant governor campaign -- more than $600,000 -- out of what had been the campaign's bank account.

Fabian characterized the transfer as improper because the aide lacked signatory authority over the account.

In another allegation, Fabian claimed that payments to two vendors in 2006 for work on the Senate campaign were made from Steele's state account rather than from his federal coffers.

Fabian also alleged that Steele paid the law firm Baker & Hostetler $75,000 for services that were not provided. The expenditure is listed in campaign finance records as an in-kind contribution to the state Republican Party.

If you call this honesty you probably need a brain transplant.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 33 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 6:52:19 PM

faith2565, that's an insulting comment and the little "winky" face doesn't make it any less so. do you think that just because people believe in our country, our constitution and our capitalist system that we haven't given this deep and meaningful thought? i really take umbrage at that.

It is only insulting to those that have a misguided fear, don't understand how capitalism is failing and an unshakeable faith in dogmatic rhetoric.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 18 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/6/2009 6:39:27 PM

It is your job to post the facts...not run your mouth[or keyboard]...back up your the proof. You can stop flaming and baiting ...your not doing much for your credibility here bub!

I guess you don't know how to google and you definitely can't stay on topic.

This thread is about how we feel about Steele, which I've already stated as I feel great republicans picked a liar and a cheat to lead them as it means their days are numbered.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 16 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/6/2009 5:17:06 PM

Got any proof there Kev...back it up with an unbiased report...Our taxes go thru the roof...more welfare...more entitlement programs...this is what happens when the DEMONCRATS are in power. Show me other wise....

Google the department of labor statistics and cross-reference the dates of presidents in power. That shouldn't be too challenging for you.

However, I believe you've been too indoctrinated to see the real facts and provide us with more pithy comebacks. i.e. Clinton left us the lowest unemployment in recent history and you can talk about his BJ.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 30 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 5:07:21 PM

Wait, will someone please tell me exactly where the money is coming from for the new bailout being proposed and ramrodded through by the Great Messiah President Barrack Hussein Obama? I'm just curious where this money is coming from.

With all that bragging about being a trained economist, one would think you'd figure that out.

It is sounding like socialism, but you guys is that really a bad thing. Europe, Asia, Africa and South American countries have been around for thousands of years. We are a very young country, maybe we need to look at our big brothers, better yet parent/grandparent countries and learn just a few lessons. Just think about it.

Actually, socialism is a scare term thrown around by repugnantins attempting to scare their uneducated followers.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 3:00:57 PM
I think it's gonna pass because there actually are a few republicans that can make sensible decisions, very few.

How about asking the people who ran our country into the poor house over the last eight years how they intended to pay back the billions they have borrowed from the Chinese, the new administration was handed this mess they did not create it,

They sure do have enough dumb followers that think borrowing those billions was a 'conservative' thing to do along with running up the biggest deficit EVER.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/6/2009 2:47:42 PM
Come on you actually think the DEMONCRATS care about the blacks, Hispanics or anyone else? If they did they would not hold them back with welfare, making them a dependent class ...voter base for the bet...all politicians care till they get your vote...

History says when democrats get in control unemployment goes down, repugnantins destroy jobs when they are in power.
Steele thinks the only thing unemployed people are good for is promising to pay them to lie for him and then he welches on his promise.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 20 (view)
How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 1:02:19 PM

When democrats are in charge, more people get jobs.
When repugnantins are in charge the rich get ricer by destroying jobs.

Reagan called for smaller government and tripled it's size.

When bush asked for a stimulus package for the rich, it was all about tinkle down economics
When Obama is promoting a package that will hire people repugnantins cry about it hurting the rich.

Democrats want to help people get jobs, Repugnantins want to improve their stock portfolio's
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
Steele new leader of the RNC, how do you feel about that? Limbaugh most influential republican?
Posted: 2/5/2009 2:54:16 PM
Steele is a proven liar and a cheat, a Rove and Cheney protege. Just another republican puppet that will help in the demise of the RNC.

With financial and other support from Karl Rove and Cheney, Steele formally announced his candidacy for the U.S. Senate on October 25, 2005. Polling in February 2006 showed the Lieutenant Governor lost significant ground against Cardin, although he remained statistically even with Mfume. He was endorsed by Mike Tyson during the campaign. Steele's television ads for the election never stated that he was the Republican candidate. Cardin won the primary election on September 12, 2006.

Steele's campaign hit several speed-bumps. Just prior to formally announcing his candidacy, Steele took flak for his defense of former Gov. Bob Ehrlich's decision to hold himself a $100,000 fund-raiser at a country club which had a whites-only membership policy, saying these policies were "not an issue" because "I don't know that much about that club and its membership...nor do I care, quite frankly, because I don't play golf."

Steele lost the general election to Cardin on November 7, 2006, getting 44% of the vote to Cardin's 55%. The Washington Post reported that on election day the Steele campaign arranged for buses of low income and homeless people from Philadelphia to distribute fliers at polls. The flyers contained incorrect information, including a statement that Michael Steele was endorsed by prominent state Democrats and African American leaders who had not, in fact, endorsed him. The homeless people were falsely identified as volunteers although they were paid, and the campaign funds used for this purpose of hiring the homeless were not timely or properly reported or attributed to the campaign.

I'm pretty happy about Limbaugh being held up as the standard holder for repugnantins, He continually reinforces my opinion of why he flunked out of college and can only make money as a jerk on the radio. The repugnantins are learning the hard way that their dogma and style have lost the power of influencing mindless dittohead mentality.

We now have someone that will show intelligence and intellect as a role model in the president.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 157 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/5/2009 8:37:08 AM

What he is talking about is that he has to pay US taxes even if he doesn't live in US. He gets no benefits from most of the expenses that his taxes go to, because he is not located in US. He has to pay taxes to the country where he is and US. Most countries don't do that. As long as you are in another country and pay taxes to them, you are not obligated to pay the country where you are a citizen. US is the exception. We double-tax people.

This is true only if you are too dumb to take advantage of:
Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
Foreign Housing Exclusion
and other Foreign Tax Credits

Which means double taxation is a myth.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 154 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:50:39 AM
If a business cannot afford to give it's workers health care, that business is not charging enough for their products or services and will probably fail. It will not be able to retain employees as the employees will always be looking for somewhere to get what they need.

If you don't like paying taxes as a US citizen that enjoys the privileges that come along with that, move to a country that doesn't require you to pay taxes.

It all boils down to some people thinking they have a right to be greedy.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 147 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:40:23 PM
Obama signed legislation mandating that all children get medical coverage. In his statements about it he claimed this is the down payment on his promise to make sure everyone gets covered.

I suggest all that don't want to pay into the system(s) that get implemented, move to some non industrialized country because every other industrialized country has medical care for all their citizens.

Might I suggest somewhere in Africa?
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 132 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/4/2009 1:29:06 PM

Thanks for the info Ryan. It seems a great system, however as the system we have in USA it has lots of flows. I am more than certain that many Canadians who have a decent income would prefer to pay less taxes partially due to completely socialized med care but have their own insurance.

If there are canadians that don't like to pay for the health care system there, they could move to the US where they can save money on premiums.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 120 (view)
Ann Coulter attacks single mothers in her new book.
Posted: 2/4/2009 9:05:42 AM
So this Ann Coulter can tell me? hmm? one smart chick, she married?

Nope, never was she's been engaged a few times but guys can't take it after a while and take off (another thing that happens to anorexics)

She was even engaged to a democrat, probably after not being able to find a republican to date. Maybe that's why she wrote the book "How to talk to a liberal, if you have to"
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 120 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:26:59 AM

Can you give us the source for this???

Funny how you rarely source your 'facts' but request sources for facts you don't like

It took me about 10 seconds to find a source for this:

According to a 2005 U.S. Census Bureau Study, Florida ranks third in the nation for
highest number of uninsured among the states. California is ranked first followed by
• The study found that there are 3.6 million uninsured in Florida. Thus, 20.2% of the
state’s 18.1 million people are without health insurance.
• In 2004, the Agency for Health Care Administration commissioned a study titled A
Profile of Uninsured Floridians: Findings from the 2004 Florida Health Insurance Study.
The study was conducted by The University of Florida’s Department of Health Services
Research, Management and Policy. The charts below are from this profile:
Table 1 – Distribution of Uninsured Florida Residents Under Age 65
Race/Ethnicity : % of Uninsured
White Non-Hispanics 44.3
Hispanics 31.6
Black/African Americans 19.5
Others 4.6
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 103 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/3/2009 2:55:56 PM

As to these grants for "special people" as you can see in Mckevinized case, there is NOTHING special in him, I would tell the opposite.

This from someone who proclaims:

what we wanted to do was trying to learn as less as possible

You're proving the point you've succeeded in learning as 'less' as possible.

I actually enjoyed spending my youth in a library and it paid off.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 116 (view)
Ann Coulter attacks single mothers in her new book.
Posted: 2/3/2009 8:38:12 AM

So Charles, this Ann Coulter carries with her a history of callous flaming of stereotypes?

Check it out and you can see this woman's diatribes against 'liberals' in her book section.
Rush loves her and would only need 1/2 of one of his viagra pills to pop a woody for her, they speak in the same style.

For what purpose does she do this? ~ to what end? and to who does it ultimately serve?

To sell books to the right wingers that need fodder for their own diatribes.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 97 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/3/2009 8:26:23 AM

Look, try reading this site I am going to give you and do the research on the info they present. You might change your mind:

Well this site contains the latest in ideas that have been used to make sure medical coverage gets more expensive for the poor and employers get richer.

The BS about Canadien emergency rooms being full and people waiting for weeks is just another unsubstanciated claim to avoid caring about 40 million uninsured americans.
You can't claim love of your country when you don't care about those 40 million and the 50 million underinsured that will have to declare bankruptcy if they have a serious accident or illness.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 91 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/2/2009 7:22:36 PM

The first thing to realize is that free public medicine isn't really free. What the consumer doesn't pay, the taxpayer does, and with a vengeance.

Who is saying it's free? The straw man.

YOU can vengefully pay your taxes and I will be glad to see the less fortunate benefit from it.

As for the rest of your figures, if they are actually true, It means those canadians are paying less than 1/3 for their medical needs as americans are and there are still over 100,000,000 americans with little or no health coverage and 0 canadians with no health care.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 87 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/2/2009 2:51:34 PM

There are sources here that explain how a Candien really feels about their Govn Health Care and other sources that also point out why socialized health care is a bit of a mess:

There is ONE canadian that doesn't like to pay taxes complaining and that's a reason to declare it a failure.

I notice that there is no evaluation of how much the system costs canadians overall and there is no comparison of the wait times and costs in our system at all. It doesn't address the fact that wait times to see specialists for 50 million americans is forever because they can't afford it.

However, it is fodder for some stupid propaganda.

Might as well chant "I love my country except for the 1/3 of it's people that can't afford health care."
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 82 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/2/2009 4:21:34 AM
Show me where I called anyone names...but now you can complain


your just a troll...flamer

like the leeches who will suck on the government tit for free!

Like I said, an incessant penchant for name calling and that was in just one post!

anyone can get a student loan...even you need it.

No, everyone cannot get a student loans but no loan was needed here, I had a full scholarship from the government to get my degree in electronics and computer science. Paid for by YOUR taxes.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 73 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:32:05 PM

Anyone...ANYONE can improve their lot in life. Education is a great way to improve your odds at a better job. Nice to know you went to work to provide for your family...that is what you are suppose to do. You did not go with hat in hand looking for the free goodies..
I have known many people over the years who came from nothing and made something of themselves. If a person really wants to...they can accomplish anything ..But to get used to the free EXPECT it from your friends and neighbors who actually pay for shameful.
And yes...ANYONE can choose to change just have to get educated and learn the right tools...not as hard as you think.

I guess you haven't noticed millions of jobs are disappearing from the economy. I'd like to see you in Wilmington OH or Peoria IL claiming those unemployed people can get a better job now that the companies that hired most of the town have laid off most of the populations there.
Families there are pulling their kids out of school because education costs MONEY they don't have.

Your fallacies are only there to support your incessant penchant for name calling.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 113 (view)
Ann Coulter attacks single mothers in her new book.
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:19:13 AM

Attacking her physical appearance? So if she were say, Jessica Simpson-esque then her message would be more palatable, or would you advise her to put down the sandwich?

It’s still the same tired partisan schpill, attack the messenger by any means necessary; character, physical appearance, anything at all to divert attention from the actual message for which no reasonable defense can be offered…

I'm sure there's many that like to see her emaciated appearance but my point was that the woman needs medical attention both physical and mental.

Funny how the paranoid can perceive that as an attack.

Her blaming single moms for society's ills is just as stupid as blaming society for creating single moms' ills.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 108 (view)
Ann Coulter attacks single mothers in her new book.
Posted: 2/1/2009 7:10:15 AM
Her overly ectomorphic frame matches her cerebrotonic attitude of looking down on those she doesn't approve of.
I would suggest she seeks a doctor about anorexia or some other illness that is eating away at her. However, I think like most anorexics, she thinks it's everyone else in the world thats wrong and thinks she's in perfect health and has to maintain her mean, stubborn appearance to shield the insignificant feelings that drive her to hold outrageous positions.

She needs a sandwich!
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 57 (view)
Medical Insurance for all
Posted: 1/31/2009 5:52:00 AM
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

It would make me happy to see health care for all so I'll pursue it.

I'm even thinking as far as mental health, make that mandatory and even force it upon those that need it. You know, like psychopaths that have no sympathy for others, the kind that have to call others 'freeloaders and beggars'.

I'd be very happy to tax the pants off people that have to repeatedly resort to name calling and bullying. I'd be happy to see it on a graduated scale that doubles their tax every time they strike out at others with such dribble and give that money to some underprivileged people that need it.

But that is just a day dream, I guess when someone is to small minded to come up with solutions and doesn't care about others all they can do is repeat the same ignorant behaviors over and over because it's the only attention they can get and we just have to grin and bare it.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 33 (view)
Ideas To Fix The Economy( for fun of course)
Posted: 1/30/2009 4:20:28 AM

Or how about a reward program for those of us who have been responsible

Implying that the problems are from those that are not responsible will not solve anything.
When the banks lend out 100% of the money they have and they want a 300% return, the only way they can get it back is inflating the money supply. The only thing the borrowers can do is declare bankruptcy when the rates become unaffordable.

Even responsible people are getting penalized.

Now you are getting into the spirit of this forum. Great ideas!

So if we agree with what you want to hear we are praised and if we have objections we are 'not in the spirit' of a forum, eh?

I say stop paying usury to the banks and force them all to fail. Eliminate the Federal Reserve and have the government print and mint all new currency. Exchange the old currency for the new currency but not for those who have made their profits from usury.
Our current supply of money is unconstitutional and doomed to repeated financial crisis.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 134 (view)
2009 plan for the economy
Posted: 1/28/2009 10:21:01 AM

what i fail to understand is how giving billions to any of the above mentioned organizations will create one private sector job

That's because you have no understanding that those above mentioned organizations hire people but don't have money to do it.

it appears to me that obama's only 2009 plan for the economy is to line the pockets of his supporters, or pet projects causes of his cronies.

appearences can be decieving. Obama is planning a website that will show where the money goes.

i am sorry, i don't think we should be running up a trillion dollar bill full of wasteful spending. this just boggles my mind...

Do you have any plan that will help or like most republicans, just come up with negative critiques?
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 73 (view)
Bush's Legacy
Posted: 1/28/2009 5:23:59 AM

The OP is about our OPINIONS of Bush's legacy.... I need a link to prove it's my opinion?

No link needed to prove your opinion, only to prove that opinion is based in truth.

Bush will be remembered for creating trillions in debt and leading droves of bullies into thinking might makes right. He blatantly started a war and funded the largest mercenary force to drain money into the pockets of his buddies and when they were caught, he ordered the accounting of it unnecessary to hide the trail.

He will be remembered for ignoring the constitution and declaring it "Just a piece of paper".
He will be remembered for ignoring the Geneva Conventions.

Having the most secretive administration ever, there are probably many things he won't be remembered for, like honesty, ethics, morality, and candor.
Joined: 2/15/2006
Msg: 24 (view)
Ideas To Fix The Economy( for fun of course)
Posted: 1/28/2009 5:03:42 AM
Seems to me that a bunch of amateur economists are about as good as a bunch of amateur surgeons.

What I do know is that a usury banking system guarantees bankruptcy and inflation.

Seems to me our economic system is broken and like an old car, it will be expensive to keep trying to repair it and we should consider getting a new one.
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