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 Author Thread: Why does he even bother?
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
Why does he even bother?
Posted: 12/5/2010 8:05:07 PM
I agree with one of the other posters that the most likely answer is he is looking to run around on his wife and things didn't work out for him.

Although, the guy could just be batsh!t crazy, too.

To which your response should always be: Buh-LockT!
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 46 (view)
Publisher on O.J.: 'I consider this his Confession'
Posted: 11/17/2006 12:02:51 PM
I am not a religious man, but if there is a Hell, OJ will be driving the bus down to it--nonstop. That guy is in for a pisser of an afterlife.....

What I always found impossible to reconcile was the fact that OJ had a gun and was suicidal as he and Al Cowlings bippity bopped down the expressway in his Bronco the morning after the murder. OJ made a phonecall (or talked to the police) that was recorded and he was clearly ready to off himself.

Now, if he was an innocent man, and loved Nicole, and all that BS, why would he be in that condition? Why would he not be wanting answers and working with the police immediately and completely? After all, he was a celebrity, and they are treated extremely well by the police until given every reason not to be given the royal treatment.

Bah.....The guy is guilty as the day is long.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
Way To Go Canada! (Uhm...NOT!)
Posted: 11/14/2006 9:56:16 AM

Shame on Canada? Nawww...The real culprits are the car/truck driving, electric using, heating and cooling needing, food eating, can't sit in the dark people that whine and moan about how everyone else is killing the planet. Take alook around you see any plastic, wood, leather, glass, food and packaging? Unless you live in a dark cave, walk or ride a bike everywhere, and grow your own food your just another culprit pointing fingers.

Ahhhh, so say the corporate oligarchy apologists.......there's a surprise.

There's enough blame to go around, but real solutions start at the top with policy changes and laws which require more conservation.

I really don't think that I or any individual has control over the fact that the average fuel economy of automakers has actually DECREASED since 1995, with Hyundai leading the way.

It's easy to point crooked little fingers at the consumer, but where the most change can be affected, it's more accurate to point it at the corporations who block and obfuscate true and smart environmental policy.

There aren't 30 THOUSAND lobbyists skulking around the beltway for nothin'....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 10 (view)
Sen. Schumer urges Allen to concede Virginia Senate race
Posted: 11/9/2006 8:16:11 AM
^^^ You seem to be freaking out about it quite a bit......

There was much MUCH more attention being paid to voter fraud and manipulation this time around than last time. There was a TON more information available about the fallibility of electronic voting machines, voter intimidation in VA via phone calls telling voters they'd be arrested if they showed up at the polls, more federal election watchers dispatched, more training of poll workers, etc etc.

For these reasons, voting irregularities, while still existing, were much less than in 2000 and 2004.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 53 (view)
Rumsfeld DOWN!!
Posted: 11/9/2006 8:09:28 AM

Rumsfeld's resignation is nothing but a bone thrown to the House and Senate as a way of begging for mercy.

I totally agree. If there are vigorous and needed investigations into the conduct of this administration as it applies to the war in Iraq, then Rumsfeld's resgination won't be enough given the amount of malfeasance that has taken place. If Congress bothers to look behind the curtains into Cheney's office and his dealings, one is going to find a treasure trove of illegal activity, from his Energy Task Force, to their meetings prior to 9/11 looking at Iraq oil reserves, to the ways in which contracts have been given to companies like Halliburton, as well as the massive amount of fraud and waste perpetrated by said companies.

I just hope Dems have the courage to do a proper investigation into all of the illegalities that have taken place. I don't have much confidence that it will happen, though.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
The Dems have the House
Posted: 11/7/2006 9:24:58 PM
A great and welcome change. The only thing that would've been bad for America was just more "stay the course" idiocy. Thank god that won't be the case.

Hopefully we'll finally get some oversight of the plundering of our treasury by the oh-so-broken no-bid-contracting process......
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 5 (view)
GOP Retains Contol of Senate & Congress......
Posted: 11/6/2006 5:24:32 PM
^^^ Try actually looking at the evidence.......if it's not too much trouble. Go watch Hacking Democracy and tell me there wasn't election fraud. I dare you......

You'll be the only one accused of wearing the foil.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 18 (view)
New Mantra: -San Francisco Values- You heard it on FAUX first!!!
Posted: 11/6/2006 5:22:24 PM

It doesn't...that's why the left has to act conservative to win an election...2000 didn't work...2004 didn't fly...sooo...2006 has seen a huge change in the liberal mindset. Why not be honest with what the left wants to accomplish? Why act conservative to win?

How funny. I just watched a Rick Santorum ad in which he bragged about working with Barbara Boxer and Hilary Clinton on various pieces of legislation.....

Hello pot? This is the kettle......dinner's ready!!!
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 57 (view)
For You Bill O'Reilly Fans
Posted: 11/6/2006 10:57:15 AM

yeah there were. and there were also ties with the kennedys.

cite please!
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 27 (view)
Unemployment Rate Hits 5 1/2 Year Low at 4.4 Percent as Economy Adds 92,000 Jobs
Posted: 11/6/2006 10:48:42 AM
Face it, Anticon, some people simply don't understand simple, basic accounting and math.

It's funny to me how neo-con stoogery bleats constantly how all Dem's will do is raise taxes, and yet, the truth of the matter is what they plan to do is UNDO the atrocious tax cuts for the wealthy, the BILLIONS being given away to the record-profit-making oil companies, and try to get our monstrous budget deficit under control.

A debt ceiling of NINE TRILLION dollars? Why do we have that? Why was that necessary?

Haha. Yes, the Republicans have done us such a great service in matters of our economy.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 15 (view)
New Mantra: -San Francisco Values- You heard it on FAUX first!!!
Posted: 11/6/2006 10:43:30 AM

Why is the LEFT hiding Pelosi? Dean? Reid? Let me tell you - because they are have SF values - which does not reflect American values.

Funny, I've seen Howard Dean all over the media in the last several days. He was on This Week with George Steph yesterday, all over CNN and MSNBC, and appeared in the documentary "Hacking Democracy" which appeared this past week on HBO.

Get out there and vote people! Time to decriminalize the Congress.......
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
Hacking democracy.
Posted: 11/5/2006 3:46:55 PM
The show was about the system and how it is dysfunctional. It wasn't about any particular political party or candidates. It was about voting systems which can so easily be corrupted that no one can be assured of an accurate vote count. Have you even watched it?
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
The Chinese move into Africa
Posted: 11/5/2006 3:31:42 PM
^^^^^ An absolutely fascinating (albeit scary) post. I think this is a reality no one dares to mention or talk about. Yet, I can easily see it coming to fruition at the current rates or use, non-reuse, lack of recycling, and lack of major funding for alternative resource use.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Hacking democracy.
Posted: 11/5/2006 3:10:31 PM
I just finished watching this. I applaud Bev Harris for her courageous work in discovering what is unequivocably a system which is rampant with flaws so huge you could drive a convoy of Mack trucks through them all. After seeing how Volusia County Florida actually came up with a NEGATIVE 16,022 votes in the 2000 Presidential election, it's pretty clear there's something amiss in the system.

We simply must demand more accountability in ensuring election results are counted accurately.....Otherwise, democracy is simply dead in its tracks.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
If you're meant to disappear, this is how it will happen....
Posted: 11/4/2006 2:35:30 PM

Bu$hCo? LOL

I'll be happy to explain to you what that means if you don't understand....

Let's say some mamby pamby didn't report something and another 9-11 type disaster happened. Then he would be buying into all the Liberalus-Americanus fear-mongering about every man, woman, and child in America throw into prison and losing all their rights...when in fact it's a security question. Let me guess?...We want to win the war...but only if it's a Democrat that wins it. We would rather lose than let a Republican win it.

Well first, if we're going to be saved from another 9/11 attack because of Joe Schlub overhearing a conversation in a restaurant, then what does that say about Bu$hCo's ability to defend this country anyway? I'll tell you: Not Much. If after spending untold billions of taxpayer dollars to beef up FBI, CIA, NSC, and other spy agencies abilities, plus creating an absurdly large bureaucracy in the form of the TSA and Homeland Security, they have to rely on Joe Schlub to prevent a terrorist attack, I want my tax money back.....

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the fear-based mantra that winning a war against a foreign enemy requires suspension of habeus corpus, mass-wiretapping of all US citizens, systematically condoning torture, and suspending other basic civil liberties via the patriot act. Isn't it amazing how we've been able to survive as a country all this time without such obvious invasions of our rights?

Of course, the above also assumes that the enemy is as massive, organized, and unified as Bu$hCo would like you to believe.......The truth of course, is nothing even remotely similar.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
Saddam Verdict Expected Soon
Posted: 11/4/2006 2:12:24 PM
^^^^^ Not to mention the fact that our illegal invasion based on lies and deliberately false information has killed more Iraqi civilians than Saddam ever did.......Yes, we are certainly the right judges in this one.......
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 1 (view)
If you're meant to be "disappeared," this is how it could happen....
Posted: 11/4/2006 8:19:59 AM
Let's say you were a known blogger on a variety of public political sites, and had often written hyper critical posts about the administration and it's derelict behavior. Perhaps more demonizing and radical than most, but yet still within the frameworks of decent political discussion. Let's further say one night you're having a frank and heated discussion about terrorism in a public place, say a restaurant. Let's say you were playing devil's advocate and arguing against another person who was a staunch (albeit vapid) supporter of Bu$hCo's new Military Commissions Act. Let's also say some mamby pamby customer who buys into all the Bu$hCo fear-mongering overheard you debating the legality of the Act and the rights of the terrorists being held under this law and/or those at Gitmo. Finally, the person who overheard this conversation makes a call to their local police on their cell phone on the way home saying these two people (you and your friend) were openly discussing terrorism in a restaurant and causing a disturbance. Police arrive thinking there's a disturbance and you and your debating partner are "detained" for questioning, at which point the local FBI or CIA are called in to listen to the interrogation because the subject of terrorism is involved......

Is it really so far fetched to think you could potentially find yourself in a situation like the one below?

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer
Sat Nov 4, 7:23 AM ET

WASHINGTON - A suspected terrorist who spent years in a secret CIA prison should not be allowed to speak to a civilian attorney, the Bush administration argues, because he could reveal the agency's closely guarded interrogation techniques.

Human rights groups have questioned the CIA's methods for questioning suspects, especially following the passage of a bill last month that authorized the use of harsh — but undefined — interrogation tactics.

In recently filed court documents, the Justice Department said those methods, along with the locations of the CIA's network of prisons, are among the nation's most sensitive secrets. Prisoners who spent time in those prisons should not be allowed to disclose that information, even to a lawyer, the government said.

"Improper disclosure of other operational details, such as interrogation methods, could also enable terrorist organizations and operatives to adapt their training to counter such methods, thereby obstructing the CIA's ability to obtain vital intelligence that could disrupt future planned terrorist attacks," the Justice Department wrote.

The documents, which were first reported by The Washington Post, were filed in opposition to a request that terror suspect Majid Khan should be given access to an attorney. Khan, 26, immigrated from Pakistan and graduated high school in Maryland.

According to documents filed on his behalf by the Center for Constitutional Rights, Khan was arrested in Pakistan in 2003. During more than three years in CIA custody, Khan was subjected to interrogation techniques that defense attorneys suggest amounted to torture.

President Bush acknowledged the existence of the CIA system in September and transferred Khan and 13 other prisoners designated as "terrorist leaders" to the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Under a law passed last month, they are to be tried before special military commissions and may not have access to civilian courts.

The Center for Constitutional Rights is among several advocacy groups challenging that law. They say the Constitution guarantees prisoners a right to challenge their detention.

The Justice Department argues that civilian courts no longer have jurisdiction to intervene in the case. They say keeping details about the CIA program secret is essential because national security is at stake.

"Information obtained through the program has provided the United States with one of the most useful tools in combating terrorist threats to the national security," the government argued in court documents.

"It has shed light on probable targets and likely methods for attacks on the United States, has led to the disruption of terrorist plots against the United States and its allies, and has gathered information that has played a role in the capture and questioning of senior al-Qaida operatives," it said.

Gitanjali S. Gutierrez, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, responded in court documents Friday that there is no evidence Khan has classified information. Gutierrez accused the administration of using national secrecy concerns to "conceal illegal or embarrassing executive conduct."

U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton has not indicated when he will rule.

Sure, you're not Muslim, you don't have a record of being involved with any kind of terrorist cells, but you WERE talking about terrorism loudly and in a public place.......could it happen? Any chance at all???
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Neoconservatives decry execution of Iraq war
Posted: 11/4/2006 8:05:48 AM
It's all going to start crashing down now, especially once the Dems win control of one (if not both) houses of Congress. It's like a ship's hull that has been can only take so much pressure before it completely gives way.

I hope we see dramatic, effectual changes as soon as the election is over......the harm that Bu$hCo has done this country is going to need broadly supported, dramatic acts to get the country back in the right direction, whether it be militarily, diplomatically, or economically.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Army , Air Force , Navy ,Marine Corps Times, calls for the resignation of Donald Rumsfeld
Posted: 11/3/2006 9:33:14 PM
So, when the Armed Forces' own newspapers are calling for the resignation of their supreme leader, how does George respond?

Just another nail in the coffin of the worst leader ever to occupy the White House.

2008 cannot come soon enough.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 9 (view)
Unemployment Rate Hits 5 1/2 Year Low at 4.4 Percent as Economy Adds 92,000 Jobs
Posted: 11/3/2006 10:07:35 AM
The tighter job market is apparently helping to lift wages, according to the Labor Department report, which showed that average wages rose 6 cents to $16.91 an hour last month, a shade above what economists had forecast.

No, not really.

6 cents equates to a 0.3% increase, which, projected over 12 months, comes to 3.6%, which is hardly anything to write home about. Given that inflation is somewhere around 3.0% overall, you can see that wages aren't going anywhere.......

So, let me see........I'll take my 0.6% net increase (which, if we take out a mere 25% to account for taxes) equates to a whopping 0.45% increase in real take home pay.

Wow, honey! Call the travel agent! We're goin' to Vegas, baby! We just hit the jackpot!

So, someone earning $35,172.80 ($16.91 x 2080 work hours per year) realizes an actual net increase of $158 per damn!
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 35 (view)
Bush's Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq's Oil
Posted: 11/3/2006 7:37:31 AM
I think when one looks carefully at the make-up of the top echelons of Bu$hCo, it is easy to see that this is, and always has been, about securing oil and giving the military industrial complex reasons to make more weapons and the insane profits that go along with it. You are dealing with a brutish, crude, and often stupid administration--plain ol' greed is not hard to believe as the primary motivating factor.

Dubya--an oilman
Bush Sr.--an oil man, on the board of The Carlyle Group, former head of CIA
Cheney--former CEO of Halliburton
Rice--former Shell oil executive

Not to mention all of the oil industry and military hardware executives which have been put in key positions throughout the gov't.

It's pretty simple, really, if one wants to actually look at reality.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
Bechtel pulls out of Iraq: Didn't come out the way we hoped.
Posted: 11/2/2006 10:08:19 AM
Bechtel has long been one of the primary beneficiaries of the US's hegemonic policies. They made hundreds of millions on these projects, despite the deaths of their employees and the projects that went unfinished or were never right to begin with. John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hitman, worked for Bechtel, and gives a chilling insight into how that company worked to essentially destroy a developing countries ability to pay off these contracts. Bechtel management constructed the contracts in such a way that they would put the receiving country in perpetual debt, never being able to pay off the costs of reconstruction. It was a very ingenious and subtle form of financial enslavement. Bechtel still does it to this day.

I don't feel sorry for them for a second. I do feel sorry for those who lost their lives to feed their incessant greed.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 25 (view)
Bush's Petro-Cartel Almost Has Iraq's Oil
Posted: 11/1/2006 2:45:51 PM
I'm still waiting for falldownfunny, Paul K, and others to construct a counter argument based on Late's line of questioning. Please, fellas, show us how it's all BS and just a bunch of conspiracy lies that are designed to benefit........ummm..........well.................hmmmm...... I guess I don't know exactly......




Once again, when faced with an overwhelming litany of well-researched facts and argumentation........the sound of crickets isn't far away.......

So instead, let's talk about Anna Nicole's baby........or Nicole Ritchie's skinnyness......or umm.......oh yeah, Michael J. Fox's "acting" in his stem cell ads.........

Yeah, yeah......that's the ticket......
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 4 (view)
Bush says he uses “the Google.”
Posted: 10/27/2006 11:27:23 AM

The only good thing are the potential jobs that will be created as the inevitable " I Used The Google" T-shirts get printed. Sadly, those will probably be done in China.

Order them while they last.......hehehe
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 29 (view)
Cheney endorses simulated drowning
Posted: 10/27/2006 11:12:04 AM

I don't think blaming America first is the way...but guess it serves some purpose. Reminds me of gutting the military and C.I.A. and then complaining they aren't doing their jobs to protect us...just not well thought out.

Please, provide a full report on Who, What, When, Where, and How.

Stirring Up Does not give many details of which group of Terrorist root problems you are resolving.

Please, continue

Try educating yourselves a little before being so haughty and glib. "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins outlines quite nicely the US's imperialistic machine and its inner workings in startling detail and accuracy. The author was one of those economic hitmen for over 20 years, and not just some reporter with an axe to grind. The man took his life in his own hands in deciding to write and publish the book.

Once you're done reading that, come back to the table and we'll see how glib you are.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 13 (view)
Cheney endorses simulated drowning
Posted: 10/27/2006 7:01:35 AM

support waterboarding for use on terrorists. We did it with a bunch of them some months/years ago and got good solid info from them within minutes.

Cite your source. Otherwise, you're just full of BS. What solid info do we have that we obtained via torture? Can you? Cite!

Yeah, that's what I thought...........
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 7 (view)
Electronic Voting machines
Posted: 10/26/2006 6:17:03 PM

We also need to get beyond the idea that any of this is an accident. Diebold established a reputation for security with its bank vaults and automatic teller machines. Do you honestly believe that any bank would use an ATM if there were any suggestion that it was less than absolutely secure? No, Diebold is quite capable of designing secure machines; the only reasonable explanation is that they deliberately designed their VGVMs to facilitate election fraud. How else to explain "a machine in ward 1B in the predominantly-Republican Gahanna, Ohio, recorded 4,258 votes for George W. Bush when only 638 people cast votes"?

An excellent post! It's amazing to think they can make virtually error-proof ATMs but can't seem to make similar-quality voting machines.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
General Says U.S. Could Beat N. Korea......sigh......
Posted: 10/26/2006 7:14:33 AM
Aside from winning against Grenada and Panama, has US been able to win any wars since WWII? and the recent conflict of Israel/Hezbollah demonstrated the lack of any tactical value precision munition have.

I do believe we kicked some major assage in the Falklands, too.

What I cannot believe is that, even with these crazed lunatics inside of Bu$hCo committing more and more crimes, while plotting others, the Dems insist they won't go for impeachment if they take over Congress.

For once, I sure hope they're lying....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 113 (view)
Air America files bankruptcy! YES!!!!
Posted: 10/25/2006 12:56:54 PM
Ah yes, leave it to ol' TP to get his fa-pinions wrong.......again.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 151 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/25/2006 12:24:58 PM
Although people as close-minded as Apollo need to see this more than anyone, ironically, they will take the least from it by viewing it, if their "head in the sand" approach to world affairs will let them view it at all.

This is the absolutely incredible special comment from Keith Olberman from Monday night that is more truth in 9 minutes than I've heard Bu$hCo utter in 6 years. Truly a must-see video clip:
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 140 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/25/2006 7:02:09 AM
^^^^^ The problem is, I don't think a message that big can fit in a space that small......
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Fox `shilling' in stem cell ad
Posted: 10/24/2006 5:43:00 PM
Limbaugh: simply the worst person in the world.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
What is a Flip Flop? What is a Lie?
Posted: 10/24/2006 9:25:12 AM
Uh huh.......he hasn't flip flopped. No way. You gotta be crazy......

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
New Republican ad claims MLK was a Republican.....
Posted: 10/24/2006 9:16:36 AM
Ahh, yes, more history isn't bad enough that the gov't had him killed.....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 68 (view)
Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 10/24/2006 9:13:00 AM
Thats the problem with someone like Obama. His voting history is very limited. There are some major issues that you have no concrete foundation to base an opinion on. In that respect he can say 1 thing to garner support, then cave and change position after its too late.

I dont see it as much of a stretch to come off as a moderate, or centrist, or whatever slur you call us, then retreat into the AD-LIB camp of the party/agenda. Its done all the time. Kerry did it. Gore did it before him. They basically tried to decieve on 1 or 2 issues that were important to me, but they both had long voting records to rely upon.

One of the things I think would be a GREAT thing for this country, then, would be to have multiple, unfettered debates between the candidates where 1) Questions are not pre-scripted, and 2) No one is allowed to whisper in the candidate's ear what to say, and 3) a respected panel of three moderators are used to represent center right, center left, and independent questions. Better still, I think it would be beneficial to have at least one of the debates designed like a town hall meeting, where the audience may ask the questions.

These types of extemporaneous situations are the kinds of things that will tell you tons more about a candidate than his handlers would otherwise allow you to see.

BTW, don't forget about things that ol' Bu$hy said when he was running for nation-building, conservative compassion, meaningful fiscal reform, blah blah lie lie lie.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 106 (view)
Air America files bankruptcy! YES!!!!
Posted: 10/24/2006 8:58:14 AM

Tim you only see a bias because you want them to say you are right in your opinions. However all the research said that the media outlets are mostly centrist and hover between the moderate republican and moderate democrats views. So as usual you are just left out on the fringe and pretty much just plain wrong.

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 2 (view)
Veering Off-Course?
Posted: 10/24/2006 8:04:21 AM
It's being reported that Bu$h Administration officials are discussing the benefits of replacing the "stay the course" sound bite with another tried and true Bu$hism:

"Thousand points of light"

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 105 (view)
History of Habeas Corpus
Posted: 10/24/2006 7:59:33 AM
^^^^ This sounds suspiciously troll-like in it's non-fact-spitting, hate-filled, name-calling spewage. I suggest we ignore our little troll and continue discussing the issue at the adult table.

Tripdave, the Constitution SPECIFICALLY gives the president the right to suspend habeus corpus temporarily in times of invasion or civil rebellion. What exactly do you think the Civil War was???
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 95 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:52:56 AM
Wrong. If you are labeled an "enemy combatant" regardless of your citizenship, you can have your rights to habeus corpus eliminated.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 3 (view)
Bush - We've never been, stay the course
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:49:44 AM
Well, Dubya lying yet again........there's a shocker.

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
Neo-Conservatism no resemblance to traditional Conservatism
Posted: 10/23/2006 11:38:25 AM
Excellent post, Harmony. I think you've summed up Bu$hCo as clearly and precisely as possible.

15 more days until election time. Make it count.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 10 (view)
STILL don't believe Bush is a drunk? : Administration OK With Iraq-Tet Offensive Comparison
Posted: 10/21/2006 2:52:45 PM

Hey inter......

re: msg. #9

Hate, spewage...... No, actually, just facts that you don't like, so you call it hate....... 'cause you have nothing else....nothing new...

It would be funny if it weren't so sad that rightwingys like you have to reach back 40 years and bring up something that has no relevance to events of the day. Shows just how precious little you have to go on.

Please, regale us with the misdeeds of FDR while you're at it. Maybe we should drag Jefferson into this as well. Wasn't he getting his servants pregnant? Somehow THEY have to be to blame for what's going on today too.........ehhh?

Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 23 (view)
The Book 1984 and current events
Posted: 10/21/2006 11:07:35 AM

U.S. Republican ad uses bin Laden image, words
Friday, October 20, 2006; 9:06 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republicans unveiled an advertisement on Friday featuring the image and words of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and a warning to voters that "these are the stakes" in the November 7 election.

The Republican National Committee ad, first shown on its Web site and scheduled for airing on cable television early next week, also includes images of al Qaeda fighters in training and other al Qaeda leaders.

"What is yet to come will be even greater," the ad quotes bin Laden as saying, before concluding with the words: "These are the stakes. Vote November 7."

President George W. Bush's Republicans, slipping in the polls from public dissatisfaction with the Iraq war, are fighting to retain control of Congress in the election. Democrats must pick up 15 House seats and six Senate seats to win a majority in each chamber.

Republicans hope to turn the debate in the campaign's closing stages back to their traditionally strong issues of national security and the war on terrorism, although recent polls show Democrats overtaking them on that turf.

Democratic Senate campaign committee spokesman Phil Singer called the ad a "desperate" effort to spur Republican voter turnout.

The bin Laden ad recalls one of the most famous American political ads, the 1964 "Daisy" ad used by Democratic President Lyndon Johnson in his race against conservative Republican Barry Goldwater.

It featured a small girl picking a daisy and a countdown to nuclear explosion before an announcer says, "These are the stakes."

It is just sickening the kind of abject manipulation being perpetrated here.

Here are some interesting video clips that relate to this discussion:

This one is rather entertaining:

This ad is similar to the ones being shown in Mo, but the one I cannot find features Osama Bin Laden and is much MUCH more blunt in beating you over the head in trying to scare voters.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 22 (view)
The Book 1984 and current events
Posted: 10/21/2006 10:39:10 AM
It's quite disconcerting after reading the above post, to apply it's ideas and principles to what we are seeing in the political discourse of today, particularly that generated by Karl Rove and the Republicans.

Here in Missouri, we are being constantly pelted with those "OBL terrorism" campaign ads by the Republicans because the race for Senator between Jim Talent and Claire McKassgil is so close. If you've not seen the ads, I'll find one of them and post a link here. They are absolutely disgusting. They are the most base form of psychological manipulation and scare-mongering. They are trying in a most shrill and desperate voice to stoke the fires of fear of a menace that is not at all a reflection of the reality. The postulate being put forth by Bu$h and his henchmen that "if we don't fight them there, we will be fighting them here" is so completely full of shit and without merit that it actually contradicts itself. And when you think about it, by fighting them over there the way we have, we are actually making it MORE likely (through sheer volume of new terrorists we are creating) that something will happen here. We're not making the US or the world MORE safe by our actions. That's obvious to anyone who bothers to look at the evidence (and that of our collective intelligence agencies) with any level of objectivity.

Don't buy into their insidious manipulation. Those in power want you to be afraid. They want you to be scared. They want you to think only THEY can keep you safe.

It's a sham of the highest order.

17 days to election! Throw these bass-tards out!!
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 54 (view)
Barack Obama The Audacity of Hope
Posted: 10/21/2006 6:32:52 AM
I just hope Dems don't nominate Hilary with a side of Obama as VP. As much as I like Obama, I will simply not vote for Hilary.......she is simply more of the same. I'd rather vote for McCain if those are my choices.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 8 (view)
STILL don't believe Bush is a drunk? : Administration OK With Iraq-Tet Offensive Comparison
Posted: 10/21/2006 6:29:30 AM

The only proven drunk in Washington is your idol and killer of Mary Jo....Yea...ol teddy is the bomb....It seems the closer we get to the elections...your hate and verbal spewage are increasing by the day! Good luck with that ....

Looks like YOUR hate and verbal spewage is going just as usual.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 9 (view)
Stock Market Boom: This only means rich people are paying more for stock. What about jobs? GDP?
Posted: 10/20/2006 12:11:20 PM

Deficiet cut by nearly 23% since last year.

Please cite your source please. I don't believe that's accurate.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 79 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/20/2006 10:39:44 AM
Just in case you want to know, below is a list of how each of your Senators and Representatives voted on this piece of legislation alphabetically and by state.

I should make one comment: Note how on a bill of this level of significance, something that inherently goes against the Constitution of the United States, something involving our individual liberties and rights, how these self-serving whores voted almost entirely down party lines. It is simply unconscienable that even something THIS important, this historic, can be simply dismissed as just another vote down party lines. Your representatives and senators do NOT care about you as citizens, and this pattern of voting is iron-clad proof of that. In no way are they deserving of the offices they hold.

Throw these people out of office in 18 days! They do NOT represent you, and do not care about anything except self-preservation of the power they've obtained. Send a message!

Ayes: 253 (58%)
Nays: 168 (39%)
Not Voting: 12 (3%)
Required: 1/2

Party Breakdown
Democrat Republican Independent
Aye 34 218 0
Nay 160 7 1
Absent 7 5 0

[Sort] District
[Sort] Representative
[Sort by Name] [Sort by Party]
Aye AL-1 Bonner, Jo [R]
Aye AL-2 Everett, Terry [R]
Aye AL-3 Rogers, Michael [R]
Aye AL-4 Aderholt, Robert [R]
Aye AL-5 Cramer, Robert [D]
Aye AL-6 Bachus, Spencer [R]
Aye AL-7 Davis, Artur [D]
Aye AK-0 Young, Donald [R]
Aye AZ-1 Renzi, Rick [R]
Aye AZ-2 Franks, Trent [R]
Aye AZ-3 Shadegg, John [R]
Nay AZ-4 Pastor, Edward [D]
Aye AZ-5 Hayworth, John [R]
Aye AZ-6 Flake, Jeff [R]
Nay AZ-7 Grijalva, Raul [D]
Aye AZ-8 Kolbe, James [R]
Nay AR-1 Berry, Robert [D]
Nay AR-2 Snyder, Victor [D]
Aye AR-3 Boozman, John [R]
Aye AR-4 Ross, Mike [D]
Nay CA-1 Thompson, C. [D]
Aye CA-2 Herger, Walter [R]
Aye CA-3 Lungren, Daniel [R]
Aye CA-4 Doolittle, John [R]
Nay CA-5 Matsui, Doris [D]
Nay CA-6 Woolsey, Lynn [D]
Nay CA-7 Miller, George [D]
Nay CA-8 Pelosi, Nancy [D]
Nay CA-9 Lee, Barbara [D]
Nay CA-10 Tauscher, Ellen [D]
Aye CA-11 Pombo, Richard [R]
Nay CA-12 Lantos, Tom [D]
Nay CA-13 Stark, Fortney [D]
Nay CA-14 Eshoo, Anna [D]
Nay CA-15 Honda, Michael [D]
Nay CA-16 Lofgren, Zoe [D]
Nay CA-17 Farr, Sam [D]
Nay CA-18 Cardoza, Dennis [D]
No Vote CA-19 Radanovich, George [R]
Nay CA-20 Costa, Jim [D]
Aye CA-21 Nunes, Devin [R]
Aye CA-22 Thomas, William [R]
Nay CA-23 Capps, Lois [D]
Aye CA-24 Gallegly, Elton [R]
Aye CA-25 McKeon, Howard [R]
Aye CA-26 Dreier, David [R]
Nay CA-27 Sherman, Brad [D]
Nay CA-28 Berman, Howard [D]
Nay CA-29 Schiff, Adam [D]
Nay CA-30 Waxman, Henry [D]
Nay CA-31 Becerra, Xavier [D]
Nay CA-32 Solis, Hilda [D]
Nay CA-33 Watson, Diane [D]
Nay CA-34 Roybal-Allard, Lucille [D]
Nay CA-35 Waters, Maxine [D]
Nay CA-36 Harman, Jane [D]
No Vote CA-37 Millender-McDonald, Juanita [D]
Nay CA-38 Napolitano, Grace [D]
Nay CA-39 Sanchez, Linda [D]
Aye CA-40 Royce, Edward [R]
Aye CA-41 Lewis, Jerry [R]
Aye CA-42 Miller, Gary [R]
Nay CA-43 Baca, Joe [D]
Aye CA-44 Calvert, Ken [R]
Aye CA-45 Bono, Mary [R]
Aye CA-46 Rohrabacher, Dana [R]
Nay CA-47 Sanchez, Loretta [D]
Aye CA-48 Campbell, John [R]
Aye CA-49 Issa, Darrell [R]
Aye CA-50 Bilbray, Brian [R]
Nay CA-51 Filner, Bob [D]
Aye CA-52 Hunter, Duncan [R]
Nay CA-53 Davis, Susan [D]
Nay CO-1 DeGette, Diana [D]
Nay CO-2 Udall, Mark [D]
Aye CO-3 Salazar, John [D]
Aye CO-4 Musgrave, Marilyn [R]
Aye CO-5 Hefley, Joel [R]
Aye CO-6 Tancredo, Thomas [R]
Aye CO-7 Beauprez, Bob [R]
Nay CT-1 Larson, John [D]
Aye CT-2 Simmons, Robert [R]
Nay CT-3 DeLauro, Rosa [D]
Aye CT-4 Shays, Christopher [R]
Aye CT-5 Johnson, Nancy [R]
No Vote DE-0 Castle, Michael [R]
Aye FL-1 Miller, Jeff [R]
Aye FL-2 Boyd, F. [D]
Nay FL-3 Brown, Corrine [D]
Aye FL-4 Crenshaw, Ander [R]
Aye FL-5 Brown-Waite, Virginia [R]
Aye FL-6 Stearns, Clifford [R]
Aye FL-7 Mica, John [R]
No Vote FL-8 Keller, Ric [R]
Aye FL-9 Bilirakis, Michael [R]
Aye FL-10 Young, C. W. [R]
No Vote FL-11 Davis, James [D]
Aye FL-12 Putnam, Adam [R]
Aye FL-13 Harris, Katherine [R]
Aye FL-14 Mack, Connie [R]
Aye FL-15 Weldon, David [R]
Aye FL-16 Foley, Mark [R]
Nay FL-17 Meek, Kendrick [D]
Aye FL-18 Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana [R]
Nay FL-19 Wexler, Robert [D]
Nay FL-20 Wasserman Schultz, Debbie [D]
Aye FL-21 Diaz-Balart, Lincoln [R]
Aye FL-22 Shaw, E. [R]
Nay FL-23 Hastings, Alcee [D]
Aye FL-24 Feeney, Tom [R]
Aye FL-25 Diaz-Balart, Mario [R]
Aye GA-1 Kingston, Jack [R]
Aye GA-2 Bishop, Sanford [D]
Aye GA-3 Marshall, James [D]
Nay GA-4 McKinney, Cynthia [D]
No Vote GA-5 Lewis, John [D]
Aye GA-6 Price, Tom [R]
Aye GA-7 Linder, John [R]
Aye GA-8 Westmoreland, Lynn [R]
Aye GA-9 Norwood, Charles [R]
Aye GA-10 Deal, Nathan [R]
Aye GA-11 Gingrey, John [R]
Aye GA-12 Barrow, John [D]
Aye GA-13 Scott, David [D]
Nay HI-1 Abercrombie, Neil [D]
Nay HI-2 Case, Ed [D]
Aye ID-1 Otter, C.L. [R]
Aye ID-2 Simpson, Michael [R]
Nay IL-1 Rush, Bobby [D]
Nay IL-2 Jackson, Jesse [D]
Nay IL-3 Lipinski, Daniel [D]
Nay IL-4 Gutierrez, Luis [D]
Nay IL-5 Emanuel, Rahm [D]
Aye IL-6 Hyde, Henry [R]
Nay IL-7 Davis, Danny [D]
Aye IL-8 Bean, Melissa [D]
Nay IL-9 Schakowsky, Janice [D]
Aye IL-10 Kirk, Mark [R]
Aye IL-11 Weller, Gerald [R]
Nay IL-12 Costello, Jerry [D]
Aye IL-13 Biggert, Judy [R]
Aye IL-14 Hastert, J. [R]
Aye IL-15 Johnson, Timothy [R]
Aye IL-16 Manzullo, Donald [R]
Nay IL-17 Evans, Lane [D]
Aye IL-18 LaHood, Ray [R]
Aye IL-19 Shimkus, John [R]
Nay IN-1 Visclosky, Peter [D]
Aye IN-2 Chocola, Chris [R]
Aye IN-3 Souder, Mark [R]
Aye IN-4 Buyer, Stephen [R]
Aye IN-5 Burton, Dan [R]
Aye IN-6 Pence, Mike [R]
Nay IN-7 Carson, Julia [D]
Aye IN-8 Hostettler, John [R]
Aye IN-9 Sodrel, Michael [R]
Aye IA-1 Nussle, James [R]
Nay IA-2 Leach, James [R]
Aye IA-3 Boswell, Leonard [D]
Aye IA-4 Latham, Thomas [R]
Aye IA-5 King, Steve [R]
Nay KS-1 Moran, Jerry [R]
Aye KS-2 Ryun, Jim [R]
Aye KS-3 Moore, Dennis [D]
Aye KS-4 Tiahrt, Todd [R]
Aye KY-1 Whitfield, Edward [R]
Aye KY-2 Lewis, Ron [R]
Aye KY-3 Northup, Anne [R]
Aye KY-4 Davis, Geoff [R]
Aye KY-5 Rogers, Harold [R]
Aye KY-6 Chandler, Ben [D]
Aye LA-1 Jindal, Bobby [R]
Nay LA-2 Jefferson, William [D]
Aye LA-3 Melancon, Charles [D]
Aye LA-4 McCrery, James [R]
Aye LA-5 Alexander, Rodney [R]
Aye LA-6 Baker, Richard [R]
Aye LA-7 Boustany, Charles [R]
Nay ME-1 Allen, Thomas [D]
Aye ME-2 Michaud, Michael [D]
Nay MD-1 Gilchrest, Wayne [R]
Nay MD-2 Ruppersberger, C.A. [D]
Nay MD-3 Cardin, Benjamin [D]
Nay MD-4 Wynn, Albert [D]
Nay MD-5 Hoyer, Steny [D]
Nay MD-6 Bartlett, Roscoe [R]
Nay MD-7 Cummings, Elijah [D]
Nay MD-8 Van Hollen, Christopher [D]
Nay MA-1 Olver, John [D]
Nay MA-2 Neal, Richard [D]
Nay MA-3 McGovern, James [D]
Nay MA-4 Frank, Barney [D]
No Vote MA-5 Meehan, Martin [D]
Nay MA-6 Tierney, John [D]
Nay MA-7 Markey, Edward [D]
Nay MA-8 Capuano, Michael [D]
Nay MA-9 Lynch, Stephen [D]
Nay MA-10 Delahunt, William [D]
Nay MI-1 Stupak, Bart [D]
Aye MI-2 Hoekstra, Peter [R]
Aye MI-3 Ehlers, Vernon [R]
Aye MI-4 Camp, David [R]
Nay MI-5 Kildee, Dale [D]
Aye MI-6 Upton, Frederick [R]
Aye MI-7 Schwarz, John [R]
Aye MI-8 Rogers, Michael [R]
Aye MI-9 Knollenberg, Joseph [R]
Aye MI-10 Miller, Candice [R]
Aye MI-11 McCotter, Thaddeus [R]
Nay MI-12 Levin, Sander [D]
Nay MI-13 Kilpatrick, Carolyn [D]
Nay MI-14 Conyers, John [D]
Nay MI-15 Dingell, John [D]
Aye MN-1 Gutknecht, Gilbert [R]
Aye MN-2 Kline, John [R]
Aye MN-3 Ramstad, James [R]
Nay MN-4 McCollum, Betty [D]
Nay MN-5 Sabo, Martin [D]
Aye MN-6 Kennedy, Mark [R]
Aye MN-7 Peterson, Collin [D]
Nay MN-8 Oberstar, James [D]
Aye MS-1 Wicker, Roger [R]
Nay MS-2 Thompson, Bennie [D]
Aye MS-3 Pickering, Charles [R]
Aye MS-4 Taylor, Gene [D]
Nay MO-1 Clay, William [D]
Aye MO-2 Akin, W. [R]
Nay MO-3 Carnahan, Russ [D]
Nay MO-4 Skelton, Ike [D]
No Vote MO-5 Cleaver, Emanuel [D]
Aye MO-6 Graves, Samuel [R]
Aye MO-7 Blunt, Roy [R]
Aye MO-8 Emerson, Jo Ann [R]
Aye MO-9 Hulshof, Kenny [R]
Aye MT-0 Rehberg, Dennis [R]
Aye NE-1 Fortenberry, Jeffrey [R]
Aye NE-2 Terry, Lee [R]
Aye NE-3 Osborne, Thomas [R]
Nay NV-1 Berkley, Shelley [D]
Aye NV-2 Gibbons, James [R]
Aye NV-3 Porter, Jon [R]
New Hampshire
Aye NH-1 Bradley, Jeb [R]
Aye NH-2 Bass, Charles [R]
New Jersey
Aye NJ-1 Andrews, Robert [D]
Aye NJ-2 LoBiondo, Frank [R]
Aye NJ-3 Saxton, H. [R]
Aye NJ-4 Smith, Christopher [R]
Aye NJ-5 Garrett, E. [R]
Nay NJ-6 Pallone, Frank [D]
Aye NJ-7 Ferguson, Michael [R]
Nay NJ-8 Pascrell, William [D]
Nay NJ-9 Rothman, Steven [D]
Nay NJ-10 Payne, Donald [D]
Aye NJ-11 Frelinghuysen, Rodney [R]
Nay NJ-12 Holt, Rush [D]
New Mexico
Aye NM-1 Wilson, Heather [R]
Aye NM-2 Pearce, Steven [R]
Nay NM-3 Udall, Tom [D]
New York
Nay NY-1 Bishop, Timothy [D]
Nay NY-2 Israel, Steve [D]
Aye NY-3 King, Peter [R]
Nay NY-4 McCarthy, Carolyn [D]
Nay NY-5 Ackerman, Gary [D]
Nay NY-6 Meeks, Gregory [D]
Nay NY-7 Crowley, Joseph [D]
Nay NY-8 Nadler, Jerrold [D]
Nay NY-9 Weiner, Anthony [D]
Nay NY-10 Towns, Edolphus [D]
Nay NY-11 Owens, Major [D]
Nay NY-12 Velazquez, Nydia [D]
Aye NY-13 Fossella, Vito [R]
Nay NY-14 Maloney, Carolyn [D]
Nay NY-15 Rangel, Charles [D]
Nay NY-16 Serrano, José [D]
Nay NY-17 Engel, Eliot [D]
Nay NY-18 Lowey, Nita [D]
Aye NY-19 Kelly, Sue [R]
Aye NY-20 Sweeney, John [R]
Nay NY-21 McNulty, Michael [D]
Nay NY-22 Hinchey, Maurice [D]
Aye NY-23 McHugh, John [R]
Aye NY-24 Boehlert, Sherwood [R]
Aye NY-25 Walsh, James [R]
Aye NY-26 Reynolds, Thomas [R]
Aye NY-27 Higgins, Brian [D]
Nay NY-28 Slaughter, Louise [D]
Aye NY-29 Kuhl, John [R]
North Carolina
Nay NC-1 Butterfield, George [D]
Aye NC-2 Etheridge, Bob [D]
Nay NC-3 Jones, Walter [R]
Nay NC-4 Price, David [D]
Aye NC-5 Foxx, Virginia [R]
Aye NC-6 Coble, John [R]
Aye NC-7 McIntyre, Mike [D]
Aye NC-8 Hayes, Robert [R]
Aye NC-9 Myrick, Sue [R]
Aye NC-10 Mchenry, Patrick [R]
Aye NC-11 Taylor, Charles [R]
Nay NC-12 Watt, Melvin [D]
Nay NC-13 Miller, R. [D]
North Dakota
Aye ND-0 Pomeroy, Earl [D]
Aye OH-1 Chabot, Steven [R]
Aye OH-2 Schmidt, Jean [R]
Aye OH-3 Turner, Michael [R]
Aye OH-4 Oxley, Michael [R]
Aye OH-5 Gillmor, Paul [R]
No Vote OH-6 Strickland, Ted [D]
Aye OH-7 Hobson, David [R]
Aye OH-8 Boehner, John [R]
Nay OH-9 Kaptur, Marcy [D]
Nay OH-10 Kucinich, Dennis [D]
Nay OH-11 Jones, Stephanie [D]
Aye OH-12 Tiberi, Patrick [R]
Aye OH-13 Brown, Sherrod [D]
Nay OH-14 LaTourette, Steven [R]
Aye OH-15 Pryce, Deborah [R]
Aye OH-16 Regula, Ralph [R]
Nay OH-17 Ryan, Timothy [D]
No Vote OH-18 Ney, Robert [R]
Aye OK-1 Sullivan, John [R]
Aye OK-2 Boren, Dan [D]
Aye OK-3 Lucas, Frank [R]
Aye OK-4 Cole, Tom [R]
Aye OK-5 Istook, Ernest [R]
Nay OR-1 Wu, David [D]
Aye OR-2 Walden, Greg [R]
Nay OR-3 Blumenauer, Earl [D]
Nay OR-4 DeFazio, Peter [D]
Nay OR-5 Hooley, Darlene [D]
Nay PA-1 Brady, Robert [D]
Nay PA-2 Fattah, Chaka [D]
Aye PA-3 English, Philip [R]
Aye PA-4 Hart, Melissa [R]
Aye PA-5 Peterson, John [R]
Aye PA-6 Gerlach, Jim [R]
Aye PA-7 Weldon, W. [R]
Aye PA-8 Fitzpatrick, Michael [R]
Aye PA-9 Shuster, William [?]
Aye PA-10 Sherwood, Donald [R]
Nay PA-11 Kanjorski, Paul [D]
Nay PA-12 Murtha, John [D]
Nay PA-13 Schwartz, Allyson [D]
Nay PA-14 Doyle, Michael [D]
Aye PA-15 Dent, Charles [R]
Aye PA-16 Pitts, Joseph [R]
Aye PA-17 Holden, Tim [D]
Aye PA-18 Murphy, Tim [R]
Aye PA-19 Platts, Todd [R]
Rhode Island
Nay RI-1 Kennedy, Patrick [D]
Nay RI-2 Langevin, James [D]
South Carolina
Aye SC-1 Brown, Henry [R]
Aye SC-2 Wilson, Addison [R]
Aye SC-3 Barrett, James [R]
Aye SC-4 Inglis, Bob [R]
Aye SC-5 Spratt, John [D]
Nay SC-6 Clyburn, James [D]
South Dakota
Aye SD-0 Herseth, Stephanie [D]
Aye TN-1 Jenkins, William [R]
Aye TN-2 Duncan, John [R]
Aye TN-3 Wamp, Zach [R]
Aye TN-4 Davis, Lincoln [D]
Nay TN-5 Cooper, Jim [D]
Aye TN-6 Gordon, Barton [D]
Aye TN-7 Blackburn, Marsha [R]
Aye TN-8 Tanner, John [D]
Aye TN-9 Ford, Harold [D]
Aye TX-1 Gohmert, Louis [R]
Aye TX-2 Poe, Ted [R]
Aye TX-3 Johnson, Samuel [R]
Aye TX-4 Hall, Ralph [R]
Aye TX-5 Hensarling, Jeb [R]
Aye TX-6 Barton, Joe [R]
Aye TX-7 Culberson, John [R]
Aye TX-8 Brady, Kevin [R]
Nay TX-9 Green, Al [D]
Aye TX-10 McCaul, Michael [R]
Aye TX-11 Conaway, K. [R]
Aye TX-12 Granger, Kay [R]
Aye TX-13 Thornberry, William [R]
Nay TX-14 Paul, Ronald [R]
Nay TX-15 Hinojosa, Ruben [D]
Nay TX-16 Reyes, Silvestre [D]
Aye TX-17 Edwards, Thomas [D]
No Vote TX-18 Jackson-Lee, Sheila [D]
Aye TX-19 Neugebauer, Randy [R]
Nay TX-20 Gonzalez, Charles [D]
Aye TX-21 Smith, Lamar [R]
Aye TX-23 Bonilla, Henry [R]
Aye TX-24 Marchant, Kenny [R]
Nay TX-25 Doggett, Lloyd [D]
Aye TX-26 Burgess, Michael [R]
Nay TX-27 Ortiz, Solomon [D]
Aye TX-28 Cuellar, Henry [D]
Nay TX-29 Green, Raymond [D]
Nay TX-30 Johnson, Eddie [D]
Aye TX-31 Carter, John [R]
Aye TX-32 Sessions, Peter [R]
Aye UT-1 Bishop, Rob [R]
Aye UT-2 Matheson, Jim [D]
Aye UT-3 Cannon, Christopher [R]
Nay VT-0 Sanders, Bernard [I]
Aye VA-1 Davis, Jo Ann [R]
Aye VA-2 Drake, Thelma [R]
Nay VA-3 Scott, Robert [D]
Aye VA-4 Forbes, James [R]
Aye VA-5 Goode, Virgil [R]
Aye VA-6 Goodlatte, Robert [R]
Aye VA-7 Cantor, Eric [R]
Nay VA-8 Moran, James [D]
Nay VA-9 Boucher, Frederick [D]
Aye VA-10 Wolf, Frank [R]
No Vote VA-11 Davis, Thomas [R]
Nay WA-1 Inslee, Jay [D]
Nay WA-2 Larsen, Rick [D]
Nay WA-3 Baird, Brian [D]
Aye WA-4 Hastings, Doc [R]
Aye WA-5 Mcmorris, Cathy [R]
Nay WA-6****, Norman [D]
Nay WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
Aye WA-8 Reichert, Dave [R]
Nay WA-9 Smith, Adam [D]
West Virginia
Nay WV-1 Mollohan, Alan [D]
Aye WV-2 Capito, Shelley [R]
Nay WV-3 Rahall, Nick [D]
Aye WI-1 Ryan, Paul [R]
Nay WI-2 Baldwin, Tammy [D]
Nay WI-3 Kind, Ronald [D]
Nay WI-4 Moore, Gwen [D]
Aye WI-5 Sensenbrenner, F. [R]
Aye WI-6 Petri, Thomas [R]
Nay WI-7 Obey, David [D]
Aye WI-8 Green, Mark [R]
Aye WY-0 Cubin, Barbara [R]
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 78 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/20/2006 10:31:39 AM

You and I, as common citizens, have no need to worry about being thrown in prison under the suspicion of terrorism.

Right up until the President, based on some heresay evidence from someone you don't even know, but who is deemed as "reliable," says you have engaged in terrorism activities. It is a completely different story if that happens.


THAT is a problem.

Locks are made for honest men and we are not dealing with men that deal in honesty.

Are you also referring to the liars who lied us into this war? Are you also referring to the liars who meet secretly with heads of industry to plan policies which directly enrich themselves? Are you also referring to the liars who refuse to pass legislation cracking down on abject fraud, bid-rigging, and outright theft of treasury tax dollars? Because if you're not, you're missing more than half of the problem.

They kill their own people with more brutality than we use on them and they come here with the intention to do the same to us. Are we going to let them or not?

You are a Rovian dream. Hook. Line. Sinker. If for even one second you think that the US is any less brutal in the way it murders and tortures, you have your head in the sand further than you even know. Pick up a copy of Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins, or go see Iraq for Sale, or view the documentary "The politics of Fear" done by PBS. Try and educate yourself on more than Republican limey fear-mongering ads showing OBL's face with some scary quotes at the bottom of the screen.
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 75 (view)
The Day Habeas Corpus Died
Posted: 10/20/2006 10:19:58 AM
^^^ Good golly, where to start with this one.......

I refuse to believe that our government, in all of it's internal corruption, has anything to benefit from locking us up and throwing away the key. If that were their motivation they have the world's most powerful army at their disposal to do just that...and yet it isn't happening even days after this law has been enacted.

The problem with this argument is the internal assumption that the gov't would have a need or desire to do this "en masse" to large numbers of people. They wouldn't do this because it would attract too much attention, and in all likelihood cause riots that would make the Rodney King uprising look like fiddlesticks. The actual problem is that this Act gives the president the right to INDIVIDUALLY scoop up anyone who gets too close to anything he doesn't want you to know, lock them up, and throw away the key never to be heard from again. It further chills the instinct (?) of a good reporter, journalist, or concerned citizen to dig deep into the tangled webs that are weaved by the existing elite and power structure to expose dangerous, corrupt, and/or illegal behavior. We have already seen how this administration outright lies, uses knowingly faulty information, and circumvents laws and the courts (via FOIA orders being refused, refusing to investigate potential wrongdoings, etc) in order to do whatever it wants. It is not all all far-fetched to see this new law abused just as easily as they've done others.

Most often, movements are started by one individual, or a very small group of people. They spread and evolve and sometimes become positive agents for change in a system that seems locked down and unchangeable. This law could essentially be used as a laser-guided weapon to snuff out such movements or calls for change at their very beginnings, before they develop the kind of momentum that gives them the inertia they need to become unstoppable. Quite clearly, this law could easily be used as a weapon of pre-emptive attack on dissent in this country, and "foreign combatants" are not the only ones this could apply to.

If you underestimate the power of those WITH power to ABUSE that power, you are incredibly naive, and ignorant of history.

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

I understand that it may be hard to admit (particularly with our undeniable vanity as a country) that someone would want to attack us on our own soil but...facts faced, like it or not, make it a conspiracy of a nation turned against it's own people or not, we were attacked. I refuse to buy into any paranoia that would suggest otherwise.

Unfortunately, you are most completely misinterpreting the meaning of what you quoted. We, in fact, have NOT been invaded, and there is NOT a rebellion currently under way. THOSE are the conditions for which haebus corpus can be suspended temporarily. A single terrorist attack, just like any number of previous single terrorist attacks, absolutely does NOT fit into the conditions of legally suspending haebus corpus. No way, no how.
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