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 Author Thread: Would relationships be better if the honeymoon hormones never went away?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Would relationships be better if the honeymoon hormones never went away?
Posted: 12/10/2018 1:55:00 PM

So I imagine what things would be like if the honeymoon hormones were not a temporary thing in most people, what if the brains of most people kept on producing those happy chemicals as long as you were together and only wore off in cases of abuse, death or a long period apart? would relationships much better if that was the case?


No way.
The thing is, that "everything is wonderful" period only seems that way because of those darn brain chemicals. Essentially, people in the "in love" stage, are HIGH all the time.

And it's no different at all, from being HIGH all the time due to the use of other drugs. Not just because the cost to the human body of being intoxicated all the time is real and problematic. The main problem is, people who are HIGH all the time, make lousy decisions. Over and over again. Not just about how compatible they really are, but about basic life day-to-day actions.

The only people I've ever seen who at least CLAIMED to experience the "in love" stuff all the time, were either so head up their own backside that they didn't realize that they were really just in love with THEMSELVES, or they were so rich that the fact that they made idiotic decision after idiotic decision, didn't hurt their lifestyle.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 18 (view)
 
choosing-between casual dating and intimate monogamy
Posted: 11/23/2018 12:01:28 AM
What I think this all comes down to, if I understand you correctly, is how you envision your life and relationship, as it is happening, but even more so, in a larger sense of respecting how you conduct your own life.

You want to enjoy yourself, but you want to like and think positively of yourself as a person, as you are enjoying.

One of the great fundamental challenges all of us have to deal with on some level, is figuring out who to try to please, and more importantly, WHY we should try to please them. The periodic ego-fad (which I've witnessed rising and falling like a pulsing tide in the US several times over my six decades) of proclaiming that pleasing oneself is the greatest and only accomplishment, invariably proves hollow to everyone who tries to make it work. Not because it's wrong to please yourself, but because the logic of it actually fails. The only reason to adopt the "My pleasures always come first!" attitude, is, for most people, actually a backhanded way to try to impress others with our bravado or careless personal strength.

What it appears you are proposing, is to try to "manually" set your sights lower than you have previously wanted to, in hopes of finding satisfaction by hitting a more readily achieved goal. That is, by ending your search for a true long term mate, and declaring that you positively WANT, the short flings that you have been finding.

That sounds a lot like a romance version of what my cat so often does, when she tries to leap from the counter to the sofa and misses by a foot...and then preens and behaves as though the tumble to the floor was her original intent all along. Not exactly sour grapes, more like an attempt at romantic revenge, against the gods of love themselves.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, just that it will only work if it's really what you respect. For myself, despite the search for a long term real mate being as insanely difficult as it is, I will stay with the so-far fruitless effort anyway, because that is what I know that I truly believe in.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Attachment theory seems to explain my dating type and problems
Posted: 11/10/2018 9:54:14 AM
I think it's a wild oversimplification, overall.
As with many fad relationship theories, it has some value in getting people to more closely examine and learn about themselves and their motivations, so I'm fine with people thinking about it all.

But the idea that there are only four kinds of attachment behaviors, is (in my experience) nonsense. In addition, such "theories" tend to assume that people aren't changed by their experiences, and don't evolve to become more certain of who they are, over time.

By the way, many of the people I've known who were in the "Secure" category of this setup, were that way because they were callous, shallow, and selfish. Not because they were well balanced and self-aware. They could be "relied upon," because they followed established "rules." Not because they had any concern or appreciation for the human values associated with the "rules."

Others who fit the more "defective" sounding descriptions, were that way because they DID care about others, and not because they were themselves weak or paranoid or whatever.

But as I said, as a starting place to get people thinking about how they behave and why, it's fine.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 30 (view)
 
Time wasters
Posted: 11/1/2018 1:08:07 PM
One piece of logic about this with which I firmly agree, is that IF you are the sort of person who DOES become convinced that anyone who fails to act quickly to meet you is a "time waster," or some other negative appraisal, then by all means, you should ALWAYS discard anyone who fails to respond as you like during your time limit.

In the same way, if you are someone who feels rushed when someone wants rapid decisions about everything, you should ALSO not make any attempt to speed yourself up, just to please one of the fast-moving people.

I've seen many couplings fail with great pain and even more time lost to both people, because one or the other person tried to behave as the other person seemed to want, rather than obeying their own nature and sensibilities.

Above all, I am convinced of the simple fact that when it comes to finding a mate, people are either compatible or they are not.

What I firmly DO NOT support, is any attempt to try to push someone who is incompatible, to force themselves to try to BECOME compatible.

Nor do I see any point, or any honor, in insulting incompatible people, as though the fact that they are different, makes them inherently or intentionally offensive.

So while I still oppose calling slower moving people "Time Wasters," I fully support discarding them, if you are unsatisfied with how they deal with you. It's best for both you and them, that you do so.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Is it too early for Christmassy jumpers?
Posted: 10/30/2018 5:15:34 PM
I have always thought that either the Pope, or perhaps Charles Henry Harrod, declared that one may only WEAR a Christmas themed jumper after Thanksgiving, but then again, it might have been a United States rule about Thanksgiving, in which case the rule would have been established by Rowland Hussey Macy Sr.

However, one may PURCHASE said items at any time.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Using different names?
Posted: 10/30/2018 2:53:36 PM
"So do the same people have accounts on different dating sites with different names?
It's like deja vu when I go to another site.
Why don't they use the same name?
The sites are all owned by the same parent company, lol."

Well, they are now. Years ago, POF was independent, and so was Match and OKC and the others. Then as American businesses are wont to do, one started buying up the rest (Match, mainly). Match closed out some of the services they bought, and screwed up the processes on others. Not sure why anyone would spend money on something so that they could sabotage it. Maybe to try to violently force everyone to buy paid memberships.

Anyway. I used to have different names on different sites, for a variety of reasons. Not to avoid being recognized (I always post a picture of me, or not at all). Sometimes the site wouldn't let me use the the name I used on another site, sometimes just because I had a different thought when I was signing up. When I signed up here, there were already several other Young Frankenstein themed names, and I liked the way that the running joke in the film about changing the pronunciation of a name was silly, that I chose a similar silly appellation.

However, I also discovered that SOME sites actually steal profiles from other sites, change the names on them, and add them to THEIR site, to "fluff up" their apparent membership. Almost like having a party, and setting up a bunch of mannequins in the room to make it appear that you have more friends, and the party is more "happening" than it really is.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Today's Catch is demeaning?
Posted: 10/30/2018 2:34:45 PM
Sounds like an act of some third rate website promotional person, who thought that they'd "cleverly" extend the "fishing" motif of the site.

If you aren't demeaned by voluntarily accepting the membership title of "fish," I don't see why you'd be bothered by being called a "fish" in other ways as well.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Time wasters
Posted: 10/30/2018 2:32:10 PM
"Why are there so many men (probably people) who message without any real intent? They chat for weeks without taking it any further and shy away from hints (or outright suggestions even) to meet. Opinions please. And what is your approach with people like that?"

Question: are you REALLY spending THAT much time talking to these people? Most people I have "chatted" with online, send perhaps one message a day, or every few days. It costs me perhaps two or three minutes per response, and I'm already online, or I wouldn't see their messages.

Is it just that you get your hopes up, and then you have all this excess energy pooling in you, and feel embarrassed about getting those hopes up? Is that why you are looking for something rude to say about them?

Of course, I'm old, and I don't participate in things like POF using my cell phone. All the notices that cell phones give me about everything from emails, to tweets, to notices from businesses, to you name it, would make me hate pretty much anyone who tried to talk to me through an interface like this, no matter what. No way I'm engaging in conversation with ANYONE using my cell, until we are well into a serious ongoing relationship.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13 (view)
 
The Numbers Game
Posted: 7/2/2018 7:40:15 PM
In my observation, most people really don't know how to use "numbers" in this sense. So I'm glad for you if you think the numbers are in your favor, or prove to you that you are doing well, but even the people I see who are happy with their "numbers," often don't really know what they mean.

For one thing, there's more than one goal people in OLD situations are here for. And the "numbers" apply entirely differently for some goals than for others.

If a person's goal is to go on lots of dates, and try lots of different people out, being in a "target rich environment" will help. If their goal is to find a mate, the way that probability rules work, the number of possible choices is almost meaningless. Especially since the chances that all, or even many of the possible "targets" are close to identical in a compatibility sense, is entirely impossible to predict, based on quantities, because types of human beings are not evenly sprinkled across the planet.

I find that most people think about the numbers the way that professional gambling establishments like customers to think. That is, they think that the more often they roll the dice, so to speak, the more their chance of success increases.

When actually, each interaction is entirely independent, and the chance of success is exactly the same, each time.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Legitimate sounding excuses for sending inappropriate messages
Posted: 7/2/2018 6:52:00 PM
I think that if you have a "picture of your junk" prepared and ready to send at all, no excuse is going to work. The closest I could think of, would be something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I had that ready for after our FOURTH date." If the woman you sent it to finds a joke excuse "charming" enough, AND accepts and enjoys men sending her such pictures overall, you might have a shot.

It's kind of like drunk calling someone. The fact that you get that drunk and then call people, is enough of a problem that the fact that you meant to do it to someone else, wont work unless the person you do it to, finds it acceptable to drunk call, in general.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Long Distance Relationship
Posted: 6/30/2018 7:33:50 PM
It isn't proximity that makes any relationship work, it's the exact people who make it work.
I don't think there's any magic involved, in any direction. I know people directly, and I have read of people throughout the past, who had wonderful life-long relationships which started out long distance, and some which remained long distance throughout the peoples' lives.

So yes, obviously, they can work.

I wouldn't say they could work for anyone who is convinced that being together most of the time is inherently necessary. That's one of the many "it depends on the people" things. Anyone who insists that a certain amount of sex is a "need," should immediately give up on the idea of anything LD, even if it's just a regular relationship with someone who travels regularly without them.

My own love relationships have all been undone by erroneous expectations. That's one way to look at it, anyway. The women expected me to behave in certain ways at certain times, and when I failed to meet those expectations, they decided to get rid of me. Distance was, in my experiences, an entirely random element, that neither helped or hindered anything.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
POF vs OKC vs EHarm gangland
Posted: 6/30/2018 7:01:27 PM
Amusing thought.

Aside from the fact that Match has bought control over POF and OKC (they appear to dislike forums), and EHarm is a religion-based pay site only, I've never observed any dating site members, having sufficient loyalty to a SITE, for such a "beef" to take place.

Lots of people complain about the sites they are on, but I rarely see people praising a site.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
POF vs OKC vs EHarm gangland
Posted: 6/30/2018 7:00:01 PM
Amusing thought.

Aside from the fact that Match has bought control over POF and OKC (they appear to dislike forums), and EHarm is a religion-based pay site only, I've never observed any dating site members, having sufficient loyalty to a SITE, for such a "beef" to take place.

Lots of people complain about the sites they are on, but I rarely see people praising a site.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Why Do Some Say 'Chump' For Trump?
Posted: 6/27/2018 5:50:22 PM

^ I'm Searle, not Seale;
and, may be less partisan or politically-polarised than you appear to believe. However, I've come to believe that during Donald trump's Presidential campaign his party came under so much physical attack that the response you mention is understandable

^^ As I began participating on this website at the end of last year, I wasn't exposed to or responsible for the demeaning names that you tell us Barack Obama suffered here two years ago. Nor am I a fan of such namecalling – even if the object of it is presented as a great mind and Statesman, though, evidently, much less than that.


You specified in your opening post, that you do NOT think that the previous President was or is due the same respect you call for everyone to accord to Trump, simply because he is the President.

So my criticism of your lack of actual principles in this stands.

Just so you know, since as you say, you don't know anything about the recent past here or elsewhere in relation to this, that I firmly and consistently oppose ALL taunting pseudonyms for anyone, regardless of whether I like them or not. I find them to be beyond childish. Whenever someone uses them, I instantly know that nothing they say will be trustworthy.

I have a very strong dislike and distrust of President Trump. This is both because he has openly behaved reprehensibly in every aspect of his life, and because he has openly directly exhorted his followers to ignore the law, and to physically attack his opponents. He has also stated repeatedly, that not only does he not believe in checking his information before making strong negative accusations against others, he actually believes that making things up out of nothing on the spur of the moment, and then repeating them even after he is TOLD that he is lying, is actually a "clever negotiating strategy." None of that, coming from his own lips, supports your glowing admiration of him.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Antigen Or Essence?
Posted: 6/27/2018 5:37:24 PM
I'm no medical expert, just another sufferer who has experimented and read a bit. So I have some suggestions for you to consider.

* The pollen you can see, is too large to trigger our reactions. It's the stuff that's too small for us to see, that gets to us. And so, when you react to it while it appears to only be nearby, it may well be that you are actually going through an invisible cloud of it.

* I've found that there's a certain amount of a sort of domino affect involved with allergic reactions. That is, my bad reaction to one kind of pollen, can sort of make me more susceptible to another that I usually don't react to. Not sure why that is.

* Lots of us have Pavlovian allergic reactions. Or there's a sort of advance allergic reaction, because we know from experience that we are GOING to suffer, our allergic reactions can kick in before the pollen actually reaches us. Sort of a psychological reaction at a distance, I suppose.

* I've had plenty of occasions where I came inside, away from the sources of pollen, and was affected by it anyway. But it often proved true, that I was still reacting to real pollen, just not pollen floating in the air from outside. Instead, I or others brought it into my environment on their clothes and skin. One thing that can help, which I do during the worst times, is to carry and use some kind of face wipes, to clean invisible pollen off my face and neck and hands. Wiping down or changing clothes can be necessary to avoid getting a dose that way.

* another source of the same kind of reaction, is fungus. That can grow indoors or out, and so we might be reacting to that, and think we are reacting to tree pollen (my main detriment).
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Why Do Some Say 'Chump' For Trump?
Posted: 6/26/2018 4:41:30 PM

Why Do Some Say 'Chump' For Trump?


Same reason why plenty of posters referred to Obama as evereything from "Obummer," to "O'barry" and worse, a scant two years ago.

I don't recall you protesting then, that it was disrespectful to the Office of President.

Apparently, you don't have PRINCIPLES regarding this, just favorites.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Help! Stuck between 2 guys... Needs advice!
Posted: 6/12/2018 4:24:22 AM
I would suggest that the solution to your situation lies within.

That is, stop looking at, and trying to analyze the two GUYS, and look at your own reasons for your own confusion; and your own reactions to each of them.

For example, for each guy, you have listed things that they do to entertain you, and nice things they have done for you, as though they are submitting "bids" for your affection. You have hinted that you enjoy everything each has done for you, but I get the impression that you might have fallen into a common subconscious thinking error, which is that you are OBLIGATED by other peoples' actions, to choose them, or to give them time from your life.

Bring your own REASONING about them out into the open in front of yourself, by writing it all down, so that you can look at it from a less biased point of view.

I also see some other things, because they aren't present: a big one, is that I don't see you saying that you actively WANT either guy. As a guy. I'm not talking physical attraction here, I'm talking about wanting them to be THE person in your life. I only see a hint that you want SOMEONE to be that.

Another sort of trick you can try, is to try imagining that each of them is the person who you wake up with every day, and with whom you perform all the MUNDANE things we all have to do. Which guy do you most want to ask to empty the garbage? Which guy do you want to argue with over things you disagree about? That sort of thing.

In any case, stop trying to decide based on how nice and good and kind the GUYS are, and look more at what you personally want, and why.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Refuses to let me lower upper age limit in search
Posted: 6/9/2018 12:49:04 PM
Nope. You are incorrect, that you SHOULD be allowed to look for what you want.

All dating and similar social sites have their own limits. This one used to be owned by a guy who decided that he would prevent very old people from chasing very young ones, and vice versa. He built those limits into the software here, and after this site was purchased from him by Match, they failed to reverse any of those limitations.

Sorry, but you're stuck with the limits as they are.

Of course, since Match also bought other dating sites, and then dismantled them entirely, it's possible they will destroy this one as well, and try to drive you into their for-pay-only site.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Has #Metoo invaded online dating?
Posted: 6/8/2018 3:38:17 PM
This is impressive. OP managed to get the Me Too movement entirely wrong, while demonstrating directly, most of the attitudes and illogical thinking that led to the movement coming alive.

Oh, and by the way, using the old middle-school style trick of claiming to NOT be reprehensible, while openly BEING reprehensible, was hilarious.

A bit clumsy in execution, though. You're not supposed to use the word "I" when you are trying to say what you are really thinking, as you deny thinking it. That gives a plotter away completely every time.

It reminds me of an old 1943 Elmer Fudd/Daffy Duck cartoon, where a fellow duck is pretending to show Daffy what he's NOT allowed to do during a boxing match, by doing it to Elmer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQywdYKur1Q
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Specific question about time travel, i did google.
Posted: 5/22/2018 4:08:27 AM
Time is among the least well understood aspects of our existence. It is less well known than the cause of gravity, which is also unknown.

We know various things which result in apparent changes in gravity, and in how time seems to pass, but these understandings are limited to various resulting effects, rather than making it clear what gravity or time actually ARE.

Really, the idea of TRAVELING through time, comes as a result of imagining time to be a fourth DIMENSION, similar in concept to the way we visualize height, width, and depth as being the first three dimensions. Since we know that we can travel in each and in all of those other dimensions, once we declare time to be a dimension, we presume that we can travel in that one as well.

But really, there is no evidence that time fits as in as a DIMENSION in that sense, at all. Time, like gravity, seems to be more like a resulting phenomenon, a sort of "side effect" of something else, rather than existing as a thing, in and of itself. Just as gravity appears to be a "side effect" of mass, time may also be a "side effect" of the way we perceive other aspects of the universe, and also not a thing, in and of itself.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Any old excuse to not meet.
Posted: 5/19/2018 6:35:48 AM
I think you, and most everyone else in this thread, are making the same mistake I've watched people make on dating aps since I started here years ago. It's the same mistake I saw people make before the invention of the internet, too.

First of all, you don't think of this dating and mating process sequentially, like it always ACTUALLY happens, you think of it as happening all at once, and then complain when human beings don't act as though they simultaneously experience the ENTIRE relationship in the first moment they see your picture.

No one EVER (no one sane, anyway) so much as says "hi" in the street, because they already know that they want to meet for a date, and explore your life with you.

And even more important to realize that that, no one goes out looking for a mate, only after they know exactly how to do it successfully and logically, because the only way TO know that, is if they've done it, and are already IN a forever relationship.

People say hello, BOTH to make first contact, AND to get a sense of their OWN fears and concerns about you. And to FIND OUT if they really want to follow through with something serious. Getting to know someone, especially remotely like this, is like wandering through a building we've never been in before, and trying to figure out if we even want to be here at all. We change AS WE WANDER. And so does our sense of the other person. Just as walking down strange hallways sometimes makes you change your mind about how soon to leave the building, the same kind of "well, but wait a minute" sense can happen in OLD.

If you DO find the people here who have a determined plan and a schedule to meet up with you, and process their "data" about you in a professional and forthright way, you'll also likely find that they will process you right on through and out the door, for the same reason. What you're asking for, is people who don't think twice, and don't even think at all about YOU, or about themselves, past that they like what they see in your photo, and the few lines of text you put in your "profile."

People change over time. That's what caused most of us to be single and looking in the first place. It's nonsense to demand that people who lost someone already, know every detail in advance of what makes for a good relationship.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8 (view)
 
How far would you go?
Posted: 5/13/2018 12:58:30 PM
I can't answer for you. I know that whenever I see "allergic to cats or dogs" in a profile, that I personally move on.

On the other hand, my own father is allergic to cats, AND suffers from asthma. He spent his entire adult life with my mother, who always liked having cats around. That was a marriage that lasted over sixty years. He outlived her.
So it depends.

I have heard various people claim that they were so perfectly matched that everything was wonderful for them all the time. Sounds great. Most of them hadn't been together very long, though, so I wonder if it's just that they were still enjoying the "in love" phase, followed by romanticizing everything.

I myself long ago gave up on ever finding that level of perfection, even for a short time. All of my relationships, within my families and outside of them, have had problems. Frankly, although I stay away from people who feel the need to say they have allergies to animals that I know I will have around me, I wouldn't put the same restriction on myself, unless the allergy was very bad. Because I know what I can and can't handle, and sniffles isn't a big deal.

Things like medical concerns are far less important to me, than character ones. I know all too well from my experiences, that the most fabulous lover, who was perfectly matched in lifestyle and other such ways, can be the absolutely most destructive person for me to be around, if they have fundamental character or moral issues.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Any expectations of who would be attracted to you?
Posted: 4/25/2018 4:13:04 PM
I have definite ideas about who would NOT be attracted to me, or find me to have potential as a mate. I rarely find anyone who I am at all sure WOULD be attracted.

Suggestion for you to consider for what you're seeing, is to recognize a very common set of dynamics on the other end. The guy side.
Specifically, from what I've observed, it is actually very RARE that guys use LOGIC to decide who a good match would be, before making contact. At least, not the kind of logic you are talking about.

Obviously, there are a batch of online guys who just use the splatter-shot technique. Spam as many people as they can get away with doing, and cross their fingers (or other appendages).

But the ones who actually do think and calculate things, might look less for compatibility, and more for susceptibility. That is, they write to anyone who they have the impression will give them a shot, rather than trying to noodle through whether or not it would make any sense at all to do so.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Kinkiness in dating/relationships
Posted: 4/24/2018 7:18:40 PM

How early is too early to be starting kinky stuff during sex play generally?
What do you consider as kinky?
Is it indicative of something "not good" if you start kinky stuff early in?
Or is it fine if both people are comfortable with the pace and everything?
What do you usually put off the table as an option early in? Most things or some or?



This is a very interesting subject area to me, because it is the most intimate and possibly the most risky of the touchiest aspects of trying to find a mate.

I think what makes it hard to answer that collection of questions, is that they are interconnected. The answers to each of them, change the answers to the others, depending on all sorts of timing and personal history or background things.

I think the simplest (ideal) situations, where both (or all, in the case of multiples) people are into the same things for the same reasons, that the answers are basically that it doesn't matter. If you and the other person are on the same "kink" page, doing whatever you do is unlikely to throw things off.

For me, the biggest first hurdle, is what the other person thinks of as "kink," and why. I remember as a very VERY young man, coming to the understanding that many people at least CLAIMED to think that anything other than missionary position coitus was "kinky." As many do, I suspect, I gradually discovered that different people think different things are kink or non-kink. And on top of that, some people are into "kinky" stuff because they directly enjoy the "kink" itself, and some get off on the feeling that they are tweaking the noses of unseen authorities by doing whatever it is.

Okay, the questions:
"Is it indicative of something "not good" if you start kinky stuff early in? "

It certainly can be. But not because it IS "kink." What can make it "not good," is WHY you go for your "kink" early. It's the same reason why having sex of any kind can be too soon: because you think of the other person as being a thing, rather than as being a person you hope to be involved with as an equal. I remember one girl, again a very long time back (college), with whom I indulged in some intimacy very quickly (which was fine back then), and it was fine until she asked me to hurt her during the act. For me personally, that put me off tremendously, at that time in my life. Mainly because I got the instant understanding that it really didn't matter to her that it was me there with her, at all.

"Or is it fine if both people are comfortable with the pace and everything? "

Since I don't support the vast majority of so-called universal moralities, this is axiomatic. Right is right, as far as I'm concerned. I'm certainly less likely now, to try to move very quickly with someone, than I was as a kid. But that's because I know now how much more complicated people are, than I realized back in the day, not because I think there's anything inherently wrong with speed to intimacy.

"How early is too early to be starting kinky stuff during sex play generally? "

I think this depends on a plethora of little things. It's akin to asking how soon is okay to share computer passwords. Or door keys. Whenever everything else feels comfortable and right, this will likely work too.

I think the biggest trick I run into, is what the other person thinks of as "kink." My ex-wife, I unfortunately discovered long after we were married, thought at least sometimes, that all sorts of things qualified as bad "kink," because they symbolized something she felt, I don't know, righteous about. Things we did when just getting together, became off-limits later, because instead of meaning that we enjoyed each other in all sorts of ways, they symbolized that I wasn't properly "respectful" towards her, or something. I stil don't know for sure, for reasons I wont go into here.

"What do you consider as kinky? "

Trickiest question to answer of all of these. Since "kinky" in this series of questions, seems to refer to "stuff people do for a bit of extra fun," as opposed to "bad things which everyone should disapprove of or oppose," I think almost everything can be "kinky." Heck, maybe there are three basic categories: 1, stuff that I don't think twice about, and assume almost everyone takes in stride (like kissing in various ways, and the more common sexual positions and activities that show up in R rated films); 2, stuff that is still fine with most people, even though they don't want to do it (such as having sex in places where most people don't commonly do it, such as on the stairs at home, or in almost public places outside and so on); and finally, 3, stuff that lots of people get very upset about, such as inflicting serious pain, and other acts of real blood-letting violence, including entirely involuntary sexual acts (i.e. actual rape, as opposed to symbolic).

I don't think I'd want to apply the term "kink" to the third category, because I think of "kink" as being more or less fun stuff.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 4/12/2018 3:53:21 AM
I think different words (and hence, different concepts) would be more accurate.

Instead of "free or slaves," recognize that we are born with a range of human characteristics, both limited and enhanced by DNA and circumstances, and that there are CONSEQUENCES to what decisions and choices we make.

You don't lack freedom of choice. It's just that with choice, comes consequence.

Thus, you are free to do as you like, but some actions may have more unpleasant "after effects" than others.

You don't HAVE to cater to the society you are in. But when you don't, you might not retain their cooperation.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5 (view)
 
I hate to ask a political question but
Posted: 4/10/2018 3:54:32 AM
I originally set out to be an Historian, which meant that I spent years studying the past, and how people make decisions, and what they tend to do and say. All of that comes into play when I am deciding on a vote.

Over the years, I have tried a number of strategies to choose who I vote for. So, apparently, has the rest of the bulk of the voting Americans. I and we collectively, seem ot have tried basing our votes on everything from overall likability, to various kinds of "gotcha!" scandal mongering.

One factor in particular that has come to be important to me over time, has been that of the candidates knowledge of and experience working with the MECHANISMS of government. This is because I have seen overall, that the less knowledge they have about such things, the less likely they are once in office, to be able to put their ideas into action, without screwing up something else that should be left alone.

I've seen two opposite results, when a candidate wins, who isn't experienced enough. Some are ineffectual, like Jimmy Carter, others are so insistent on getting what they want in spite of the mechanisms of the government opposing them, that they break laws, trample on justice, and generally destroy the unity of the country, such as Richard Nixon and Donald Trump have done. Although Nixon was a bit of an anomaly in this, since he had extensive experience (which is why I supported him in the first election he won). In Nixon's case, his essential character betrayed him, just as Trump's essential character betrays him as well: they both base most of their actions on built up resentment and self-righteousness, making it "okay for them" to ignore the laws of the land, and to attack legal-living fellow Americans.

I've tried voting AGAINST someone, and found that unsatisfying. But many times, such as the last Election, I didn't have the option to vote FOR anyone, because I so disliked ALL of the people running. I tried "protest" votes, selecting so-called "third party" people, without actually wanting them to win, and I found that to be a bad idea. I only did that once, and regretted it instantly.

Because of my extensive knowledge of political history, I CAN make use of the political advertising each candidate uses, even when it's so obviously biased and full of nonsense as it usually is. Because the ads that a candidate puts out, regardless of the claims they make, show us what the candidate THINKS OF US. If the candidate plays standard pandering games, pretending to love country, the flag, and mom and apple pie, it means they think we are all simple-minded boobs who they can use to accomplish whatever personal wishes they have. If they put out ads attacking half of us, it means they are paranoid, and will treat any concerns we have, with hostility instead of with careful logical consideration.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Not having much luck here? Maybe BICitis is to blame.
Posted: 4/8/2018 6:34:58 AM

Whittling your own list can only help you improve your odds can't it?


An oft asked question, and the same answer still applies:

Nope. Statistics don't apply in mate hunting. They just don't. Especially in this area.

If you try out a lot more people who you already don't like, you will NOT increase your chance of finding someone who you DO like.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings
Posted: 3/31/2018 7:04:39 AM
No point in discussing anything with someone who believes that anyone who supports good manners, is a "lefty."
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
What is stupid?
Posted: 3/27/2018 7:43:00 PM
If you want to explore this seriously, you need to start by recognizing that intelligence is an EXTREMELY complicated area. Not only are there all sorts of gradations of intelligence, but it's very difficult to measure, subject to inhibition by various means (i.e. drugs, exhaustion, physical defect), and so on.

Plus, when you talk about stupidity, there are at least two main definitions of that word. One is the strict idea that an entity is INCAPABLE OF LEARNING. The other is the more common usage of it in casual society, where it means anything from "I disagree with you," to "that's not considered stylish right now," to "I want to sabotage your right to be heard at all," and so on.
Mostly, it's a casual insult, without a definite meaning.

You also strayed into the area of people who are clearly just as "intelligent" as everyone else, but seem to be determined to ignore their own minds, and do things or say things that make no sense at all.

Huge subject area.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10 (view)
 
psychedelics as the origins of religion
Posted: 3/27/2018 6:17:54 PM
Neeah, I'm not buying it.

Doesn't make any historical sense at all.

What DOES make sense, is that the origin of religion is the common every day human effort to try to figure out how stuff works, to try to make life easier.

That's it, really. That's why there are so many different religions: everybody came to different conclusions about the same stuff.

And religions are historically a lot like large snowballs rolling down a hill. They pick up whatever random stuff they roll over along the way, and grow and change as more stuff happens.

The world seems pretty damn magical, if you don't know anything about modern science, long before and entirely without psychedelic hallucinations.

One of my own old fun ideas about how gods were first invented, involves envisioning a classic cave man era family, late in the evening, with the head of the family trying desperately to get some sleep, in spite of noisy energetic kids. After he's too tired to actually get up and box their ears for the third or fourth time, and they howl again, he shouts to them that a giant invisible being is going to punish them if they don't shut the hell up and let him sleep. When that worked, he started to add onto the idea as needed, to get all sorts of other stuff done.

Somewhere along the line, someone did get hallucinations by chance, and there was already a well established set of ideas about magic beings and so on, so the very logical people dealing with it all, just added that into the mix as best as they could.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Why would my ex girlfriend agree to coffee and not follow through
Posted: 3/18/2018 12:28:04 PM
This is something I've actually seen many times. Humans are fascinating, in that they often do things in a sort of a CONCEPTUAL way, without even realizing it, and I think this kind of act, or non-act, is that kind of behavior.

Basically, you have both been performing your breakup, in a sort of stumbling, step by step way. On her end, was the initiation of random short conversations every few days, as HER emotions were winding down. In the same way, you wound yourself down, by deleting her from social media.

The final agreement to meet up, which wasn't followed up on, was really just TALK of meeting up. You weren't specific about a when and where (at least you don't say you were), and she didn't come back with specifics either, she just made general positive noises about it.

Really, what you were both CONCEPTUALLY doing in that last conversation, was agreeing to part calmly on mostly friendly terms. Leaving things with a vague invitation given and accepted to coffee and chat, is kind of like one of you saying "I'll see you around?" And the other saying "absolutely, friend!" before you each go your separate ways.

It would be wrong of you, I think, to attack HER for not "following through," when it was YOU who came up with the not-entirely specific idea to get coffee sometime. After all, you didn't follow up either.

Any chance this is YOU conceptually continuing the breakup process yourself? Did you REALLY feel the need to "catch up?" Or was this really just another wind-down walk-through?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/4/2018 3:38:05 PM
One other element in all this that I forgot to mention, is that we are all dynamic, ever changing beings, in a dynamic, ever changing world.
That means that even with promises and entitlements and all our communication and learning skills, we ALSO have to be prepared to change our own mind, we also have to be prepared to adjust when others change THEIR minds.

While that doesn't alter the meaning of a promise, it does mean that sometimes we need to renegotiate.

Now. How MUCH we need to be prepared to renegotiate, is tricky. Some people will expect or demand that their mate be willing and ready to accept any change, to the point where making a promise is meaningless. I had to deal a long time ago with someone who wanted to completely change the rules between us, while still adamantly declaring that everything they ever said to me was still true. They were defending their past selves, while wanting to follow the desires of their present selves. That exchange was what taught me not to MAKE promises of certain kinds. Mainly, not to bother to promise the future, when all I really meant, was whatever was in my mind now.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Casual sex and dating...
Posted: 3/3/2018 11:43:12 AM
My entire allegedly adult life, I have been reading and hearing about how "easy it is to get sex." Never found that to be the case myself. No doubt due to my many defects.

All my life, I've been hearing people blame the inability to find a marital partner on the ease of getting sex. I've never seen that to be the case, even for the people who WERE having sex all the time with various people.

The reason why it's hard to find a person to be married to, in my opinion, is that marriage is extremely hard to "do." And more and more people don't want to "do it." Or, they want to "do it" for the wrong reasons.

Anyway. Back in college, I saw that it was the thing to do, to have sex with multiple people, and for that sex to be "casual." So I tried to do that. I not only had to work ten times harder than everyone around me to arrange it, I didn't enjoy it at all. The sex was sometimes okay, but I rapidly found that for me, it mattered a LOT that I did or didn't care about the other person. I guess I was born conservative or something.

Anyway, no, since college, I completely discarded the idea of even attempting to arrange a casual sex relationship. And no, if I were considering someone, and I found they were having sex with others as they dated me, I would end things promptly. Not because I disapprove of such behavior per se, rather because I already know from previous experience, that someone who thinks that way, isn't a good match for me. So there's no point to try to convince them to switch to me.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Why I think it's important to look for these specific qualities in a potential partner:
Posted: 2/26/2018 3:53:12 AM
I think you need to take things down a notch or two.

While your heading words (creativity, intelligence and so on) are nice enough, many of your explanations about each one are so energized, that they overrun any realistic application to a human being or a relationship. Overall, this reminds me of the sort of things I heard many a young person eagerly say when they were just entering college, and just beginning to enjoy challenging the greater part of the society they were just beginning to comprehend. And so they went way overboard in the challenges.

I agree that almost all of these named qualities are nice elements, but you go too far with many of them. Take "ideals/purpose" in particular.


A lot of people tend to tell potential partners to "accept me for who I am." This is something I often challenge individuals' perceptions on because it makes me wonder if they have ideals and goals for themselves; and whether or not they are constantly striving to become better individuals.


Being supportive of someone who is in the process of growing and striving to accomplish new things is nice and positive. But the number one reason why most of us who say "take me as I am" do so, is because we've been through or witnessed countless cases where the other person took us on for what they WANTED us to be, rather than for what we really were. There are few things more depressing and discouraging, than finding that the person who you wish loved you, actually wants someone who LOOKS like you, but is actually someone else. And that's what the over-emphasis you express on "becoming better individuals" entails.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
 
The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
Posted: 2/19/2018 4:06:40 AM
Glad to see you aren't another one of those people who have their own intensely prejudiced agenda, made obvious by their use of other people's (such as Rush Limbaugh's) crude and childish name-calling, and therefore ignoring the very studies they pretend to be using to support their prejudices.

Oh wait...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
 
Okay Well She Cheated....
Posted: 2/13/2018 4:37:13 AM
I don't know if there's really any completely reliable way to have confidence that someone who has cheated, wont do it again.

One thing that I have seen proven again and again, is that the REASON people give for cheating, seems to be the most important key to recognizing the ones who will or wont do it again.

* anyone who blames other people for their cheating, will cheat again. Whether they blame their mate, or they blame the charmer who they cheat with, doesn't seem to matter. Unless they accept 100% responsibility for their choice, they will do it again and again. If nothing else, because the world has THAT many people willing to facilitate the would-be cheat.

* people have to have a POSITIVE reason to behave themselves well, in any aspect of their lives, or they will be unreliable. That means, that fear of punishment or penalty or even of consequences, will not be enough. They have to WANT to behave well, in order to please THEMSELVES. Even knowing that their mate will be upset if they cheat, and caring about how their mate feels, isn't enough. They have to want to be LOYAL, for the sake of being loyal.

Another rather obnoxious fact to deal with in the age range here, is that the teens and twenties seems to be the portion of any human's life, where they are most likely to not yet actually HAVE a real, personal set of morals or philosophical standards. Instead, they have a mix of things they were told growing up, and things they wish they could get away with, which they are more or less experimenting with. They will repeat various principles by rote memory, so that you can THINK they believe this or that, and they might well think they do too. But it takes time and experience for a person to truly integrate what they believe, into a comprehensive personal philosophy or set of behavioral boundaries, and the teens and twenties are usually much too soon for them to have done so.

In a way, this particular story is something I saw happen over and over again when I was that age, and suffered through myself (of course). Young people made all sorts of brave and forthright-sounding promises and vows to each other, and earnestly believed that they were telling truths, when actually they had yet to have really understood the extent of what they were making vows about. The most common thing I saw, were people who would say with complete conviction, that they loved their official mate with all their heart...and then when they weren't right in front of them, the passion that they had deduced that claim from, would fade and be replaced by whatever passion or sexual attraction they felt for the NEXT person who was right in front of them, and they would suddenly doubt that the first passion was "real love."

So in a way, everyone cheated, and nobody cheated. Everyone was doing "experiments," whether they realized it or not. And it was extremely painful to each other, and often dangerous, but it was pretty much normal human behavior the whole time.

Just another reason why most people need to date for a fairly long time, before they can make or trust any promises they or the other person wants to make to them.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 20 (view)
 
Thought I was almost over her
Posted: 2/7/2018 4:30:53 AM

Could be some truth to that Igor. But don't you think both people in a relationship have a fantasy at least to some degree about how that relationship will progress in the early years?
We were at polar opposites when we met, she had been in a 20 year marriage where they shared a house but not a marriage for the last 3 years. I had been in and out of a few relationships that did not last, I did not fall deeply in love in any of them, hence my "failure to sustain relationships".
She was looking for a casual relationship and I was looking for the last relationship, doomed at the start possibly?


Aha. Yeah, that all fits a common pattern. Yes, in a big way, doomed from the start. Mainly because from the sounds of it, when YOU were launching into a concerted effort to finally find your one and only forever mate, SHE was just beginning to look to fulfill her combined desire to have the fun in life that she missed in her failed marriage, while at the same time, getting some emotional revenge on the various symbolic copies of her ex. You would likely have simultaneously made her happy (the wild and marvelous sex) and made her angry (wanting to settle down for another marriage). So her behavior towards you would logically be erratic.

To my way of thinking, people can often be like ballistic missiles in a way. Our past gives us force and direction that we don't directly control, and we follow "trajectories" that are determined by what we are, more than by what we wish we were. Even the most loving and thoughtful "missile" in the world, will still end up heading downrange to where the main thrust of their life sent them, even if they manage to deflect themselves somewhat through personal effort. Most of all, we wont stop trying to get what we think in our center that we need, until either we get it, or become convinced that it isn't possible.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Thought I was almost over her
Posted: 2/6/2018 11:57:59 AM
You didn't give any details I could figure out, but I think I can relate at least to the emotional "flow" that you may have gone through with this woman.

The main things I keyed on and felt a reaction to, is where you talked about how unusually wonderful the sex was,and how you repeatedly had to cross your own boundaries in your attempts to please her.

I went through something like that a VERY long time ago, and it was similarly the most involved I've felt, and the most eviscerated.

What I eventually realized in my case, was that what I went through, wasn't real. Both of us THOUGHT it was real at the time, but what actually went on, was that that the woman was living inside a fantasy world for herself, and I was living in a real world, trying to cross over to her version. That's why I could never please her: I was trying to make SENSE of everything, when I didn't know that I was living in someone else's story of the world. She didn't know she WAS following a scripted fantasy, so she couldn't tell me, she just kept expecting me to know my lines, and to know my role in each "episode," and when I repeatedly didn't, she thought I was trying to screw up her life in various ways.

In my case, the only real tragedy, aside from the five years I lost and all the personal pain and indignity, was that after I figured it out, it was clear that I went through it all for absolutely nothing.

Maybe your misadventure was similarly entrancing, but meaningless.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
WHO ASKS or DARE ASK WHY?!
Posted: 2/3/2018 5:00:36 PM
Okay, first of all, it's obvious that you cut and pasted this from somewhere else, and posted it here under your own name,without proper attribution (it includes the phrase "In my address, I stressed...").

Next, since the long diatribe contains a series of purely political JUDGMENTS AND OPINIONS, which you provide no supporting evidence for, it's most likely that this is all basically a propaganda attack piece of some kind, rather than a study or an investigation.

Next, every one of your accusations, are based on your source doing ZERO research on what was actually happening in the past, which led to the actions you are declaring to be "imperialist." If there HAD been any research, the attacks would include explanations for why the real reasons for each item, were provably false. Which is not there.

So. Are you another Russian troll? Or are you just a sucker for Russian trolls? Or is there some other propaganda group that you are fronting for?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 1/22/2018 3:56:51 AM
In the coping and surviving department...

this is the exact reason why many of us have death rituals for those we loved. The rituals are not for the sake of gods, or for the sake of the society around us, they are designed to allow us to participate lovingly in the transition that our friend has made.

I suggest that you fashion a ritual of your own to mark this transition, one that includes resolution as well as continuity for yourself, into the future.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Do I need to be more patient in my LDR - or am I right to be cooling off?
Posted: 1/17/2018 7:00:50 PM
Something I've seen happen MANY times, and take a variety of exact forms, is something I like to call a "proximity effect," and sometimes, "precipicitis."

It's a common human emotional phenomenon, where the person thinks some very big change through thoroughly, discusses it with other people even, fantasizes how wonderful it's going to be...

...and then when they get to the point where they actually have to make the first big step, THAT'S when all the fear and worry shows up.

Some people let that sudden burst of fear stop their plans, and they run away. Some hover near the final decision point, reassuring the other person that they are fine, while obviously backing away in confusion.

Lots of people finally take the step. Some don't.

Is there a best way to react to it? Well, as with all human behaviors, it depends on the exact person. But in general, from the various examples I've witnessed, pushing the person who is scared of taking the step away, seems to increase the likelihood that they will give in to the fear and run, while expressing calm confidence in their ultimate value and judgement tends to calm them down again. In particular, it can help to point out that the decision in question isn't actually necessarily permanent and inescapable once it is made.

That means that I would NOT recommend backing away as a strategy to sort of "punish" the nervous person, and I would not recommend it as a way to pretend you don't care, or anything else artificial.

As with so many unpleasant challenges in life, the best course seems to be to decide where you want to go, and with whom, and then start heading that way. If they fail to join up with you, you will still be on your chosen path. If they do, hilarity and fun ensues for all.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 57 (view)
 
Herpes Dating
Posted: 1/13/2018 6:18:51 AM
"^^^^^^^^^^
A "higher class of people"....

....ugh."

Oh yes. Didn't you know?

Germs and viruses are VERY class conscious. They NEVER infect anyone who wears a Prada tie, or Gucci shoes.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 22 (view)
 
smothering/clingy man
Posted: 1/9/2018 5:41:43 AM
forumsgirl:
BadGirlinOregon- "It is 3 am and I just got home from the hospital. I took him to the hospital because he has diabetes and his blood sugar was extremely high"

I thought so, more than two decades in nursing has given me good instincts, which is why I said............

"The GP will order blood work, if they don't, go see another one that will. It's key to his mental and physical health that both of you know which levels are ok and which are not, because some are not going to be ok."

You aren't seeing the Forrest for the trees, because you are both stressed.

PLEASE, read this, it will explain much of what is going on. Once you read it, you will get a much better picture of how his health is directly related to what is happening.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-and-depression.html


EXCELLENT example of what I did a horrible job of trying to get at earlier:

to solve any problem, it is essential to find out what the actual problem is.

Since I experienced my own episode of having a (now ex) spouse declare that I had to find more friends to hang out with, to solve what she was upset with me about, I keyed in too much on that error. I forgot about depression, especially physiologically triggered depression, which is ironic since it's one of my own challenges.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 6 (view)
 
smothering/clingy man
Posted: 1/6/2018 9:53:05 AM
My advice as a fellow male in my sixties, is:

go on hurting him.

It's not that I or anyone else likes being disappointed, it's that this is the kind of lesson or personal growth or coming to understand, that people can only do from within themselves. And the only way TO learn, is through having reality match the truth about each person.

What he has to do, is to recognize how much of his urge to be with you isn't really about you, per se. Maybe it's deep hunger, built up over the time he spent alone before, maybe it's due to a previous person pretending to like him, but just using him...heck, maybe it's a part of "sixty-itis," where he wants to get his childhood fantasies all done before he's really too old.
As for friends, many women don't know or refuse to understand this, but more men DON'T hang around with buddies after the teen years are over, than do. Understandable, since the commercials we are pelted with all insist that guys act like they are high school sophomores for their entire lives.

Anyway. Set yourself a reasonable deadline. Like, a year, perhaps. Part of being male, seems to be that old two-sided coin thing, where if we are aggressive enough to take action to be with you, we are also likely to be stubborn enough to refuse to understand a word you say until someone hits us in the face with a two-by-four. If he still refuses to adjust to reality after that amount of time, he wont ever, and you'll have to decide whether you want to accept the unending fusses he makes, or declare an end to the experiment.

The only specific warning I'd give you, again based on me, is do NOT try to come up with HIS solution for him. Whatever your thinking is, will only solve what your problem would be, if you were doing as he is doing. If he's a fairly normal male, telling him what to do in any detail, is likely to make him rebellious rather than grateful.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
 
Answer this Is it better to ask for foregiveness than to Ask for Permission
Posted: 1/5/2018 3:45:45 AM
The trickiest thing about wise sayings and anecdotes like this, is that a person has to have the background experiences that supports them, before they can see the insight clearly.

This one is probably something many of us should do more often, but not as a panacea.
For example, it doesn't work too well with the temptation to have an affair.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 14 (view)
 
A friend in Need
Posted: 1/2/2018 4:20:50 AM
I think there is something missing from the story here. It doesn't make sense to me logically, quite. Have any or all of these friends PREVIOUSLY given gifts to you? If it suddenly went from yes to no simultaneously for all of them, that would be a surprise.

The thing I personally have always hated about Christmas, has been the people who thought that gift giving was an obligation. A task to be performed by rote, so that they could be checked off of each other's list each year. Over time, I reached the point where I would rather get nothing, than get a pile of stuff from people who had no idea what I wanted or needed, and who were only shoving something in a box with my name on it to be able to say that they did.

So while I completely understand your emotions about this, I think you may be keying in too strongly on the exact details about gifts.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Is my Boyfriend gay and in denial or am i paranoid?
Posted: 1/2/2018 4:02:04 AM
Okay, I made it through the entire paragraph-free wall of text.

The biggest problem I see with your reasoning, is that you are only aware of two possible sexual orientations. That's why you keep lurching back to "is he gay?" whenever something comes up that shows he isn't the version of heterosexual that you were expecting or hoping for.

You don't need to assign him a category or a label. All you need to do, is to decide if whatever he IS, is what you want. From everything you've said hear, it sounds as though the answer is "no."
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5 (view)
 
why do i get messages from guys that want to give me for nothing in return?
Posted: 12/28/2017 4:54:14 AM
Actually, I saw this kind of behavior LONG before the ability to scam people online was even envisioned.

Yes, it's probably true that most people who do this are scammers, especially online.

But there is also a fairly common behavior that I've seen lots of males do, where they do what appears to be the same thing, but they are actually honest...in a way.

It all comes from the childhood lesson most people misunderstand (when they are three), where parents and other adults try to get them to see that "behaving nice" makes more people do what you want them to, or at least treat YOU well. The subtle difference between "be nice to get the best chance of others being nice," and "be nice because then others HAVE TO BE nice," is often completely missed by children, and lots of those children make it well into adulthood without correcting their mistake.

In short, SOME guys really do think on the surface of their own mind, that they want to give you things (money, free labor around the house, change your flat tire, take you to expensive places and pay for it, time putting up with you ranting about some other guy), and get nothing in return. They THINK they want that, because what they really want, is to be awarded the title of "wonderful guy," and not because they actually are annoyed that they have all this excess time and money that you are helping them dispose of. But since they got confused as a kid, and never bothered to think things through and correct themselves later, they continue to lie TO THEMSELVES about it all.

You are right to turn everyone's offers of largess away, not just because that protects you from the outright scammers, but also because accepting gifts from even the ones fooling themselves, will be an annoying experience for both of you. He'll get his hopes up,and you'll feel all the time, that the money or whatever you receive, has a sort of social goo all over it, that makes the whole experience unpleasant.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Perhaps It's Time To Put 'Justinelle' In Perspective
Posted: 12/28/2017 4:42:38 AM
General observation about this debate:

we DO have the option to recognize that it is BOTH true that the US has not always behaved honorably, AND that North Korea is a dangerous mess, due to it's obviously mentally unstable leadership.

Kind of like, we can BOTH recognize that some politicians in the US like to use Russia and Putin as "bogeymen" to win petty local victories, AND see that Putin is very dangerous, and really is working to undermine Europe and the US interests all over the world.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Are There Sexual Assault Double Standards?
Posted: 12/28/2017 4:36:47 AM
More than anything else, what needs to be recognized, is that you can't treat EVERYBODY as though they are one kind of person.

Yeah, it's true that no matter what we set up to protect innocent victims, some schnook is going to use it to take unfair advantage, and pretend to be one of the victims when they really are not. But if you declare that you are therefore going to ride roughshod over all the victims, just to make sure no fake ones sneak in, you're making yourself into the worst kind of dishonorable, lazy, self-destructive fool that there is.

Are there double standards in the world? Yup, everywhere you look. But again, so what? Are you going to throw EVERYONE into the garbage can, because one or two fail to think clearly?

Solution I found a long time ago: old fashioned personal honor.

YOU know when you are treating another person in a way that you wouldn't tolerate if it were done to you.

So stop doing that.
 
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