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 Author Thread: do you look like your pictures?
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 237 (view)
 
do you look like your pictures?
Posted: 8/7/2009 9:13:45 AM

Everyone I have met says I look better in person than my pics. Most people I meet don't look as good as their pics. Glad I can say its the other way around for me.


a lot of guys i've met have said that to me, too. and i'd REALLY like to believe it. but then i wonder, were they just being nice? flattering me as part of the process? i don't know... hmmm
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 225 (view)
 
do you look like your pictures?
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:00:51 PM
Do you look like your pictures?

When you go out and meet someone.... has this come up?


interesting, ummm 1, that in asking a question like this, you don't have a picture yourself... wtf?

anyhow, yes, i look exactly like my pictures. and almost every guy i've met thru online personals has said something or the other to that effect. i think it's really important to post pictures that are current. because, otherwise? it's kind of like lying, isn't it?

one time, from another site, i met a guy who, in his photo, had a full head of thick black luscious hair. when i met him? he was completely bald, except for one charlie brown hair hanging over his forehead. it was, to put it mildly, shocking.

he was also, btw, about 11 years older than he said he was in his profile.

and, it was at about that point that i started taking online dating A LOT less seriously.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 36 (view)
 
2 strikes and you're out?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:56:38 PM

I've been talking to this guy on-line for a couple of weeks when he asked to meet in person two weeks ago. I agreed. The night before our meet he cancelled saying that he had to do something for his aunt. We re-scheduled for this week and the night before he cancelled again stating that he was sick. We have re-scheduled a third time for this week. I am a little apprehensive, as I think he might flake out again. I want to emphasize that I did not push to meet him in person. I was content talking to him via email and phone for the moment.

So, my question is this: What do you think of this behavior and should I give this guy a third chance and meet him in person?


i dunno but sounds to me, dine 68, like your apprehension is quite warranted. i mean cancelling and re-scheduling once is one thing, but do it twice? mmmmm, sounds bad to me. there are a lot of flakes on these on line personals sites, so, he may just be one more. i will be interested to learn if he shows for date # 3 or not. please keep us posted!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 59 (view)
 
Can you fall in love over the phone?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:50:01 PM

I entered into an intense, deep phone (not sexual) relationship with someone here. We talked for hours every night for a month. Then he got scared to meet in person (being only separated). Has anyone else fallen in love over the phone only? I am having a really hard time getting over this and was just wondering if it is really just infatuation. Thanks.


i'm sorry, vic x star, but all i can say in answer to your question is:

...no, no, no, no, N-O, NO.

obviously the dude's got issues -- he's either married or otherwise a mess -- obviously you cannot know a person unless you actually KNOW them, in real time, and real space.

so... NO: you CANNOT fall in love with someone over the phone. unless you are going to marry the phone itself, this is not possible.

better luck next time! and next time? meet the guy in person A LOT sooner.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 42 (view)
 
TV Shows your Match
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:45:48 PM

What do you all think? Do you think the televisi0n shows the people you talk with tell you anything about the type of person they are?


absolutely, cinsav, i think it tells us a lot.

but it's like anything else: music, drama, literature, art, TV, museums, other interests -- all these things tell us something about the person.

for example, whether their tastes suck or not. :D ok, ok, i mean whether their tastes match our own.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 28 (view)
 
How far should you go once it gets to the bedroom?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:42:44 PM

For me, once I'm ready to become intimate with a man I'm still not ready to do some things in the bedroom right away. Is a man really basing whether or not he wants to be with a woman on their first sexual encounter?

I was wondering how both men and women feel or view this subject. Is it anything goes once the clothes come off or do you take it slow, build on trust and introduce new things later?


your philosophy sounds perfect to me, bella: "you take it slow, build on trust and introduce new things later".

that's my speed. in part because it takes time to feel intimate with the guy, it takes time for those lustful urges to blossom, and that, for me, is based mostly on how i FEEL about him as a person (as opposed to what he looks like or his bank balance or whatever other things women value in men).

i, too, am not ready to do certain things right away (like oral sex, even tho i LOVE giving oral sex!) because if doing it doesn't feel genuine and honest then i just can't do it.

great post!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 59 (view)
 
Still on the market?
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:35:47 PM

yes, but do you tell them that you are dating others or do you just take it for granted because you havent agreed on as you say to an "exclusive"?


well, one of the problems i have with online dating is the way that it can be so prescriptive. so rule-bound. what the heck is this third date rule anyway?

anyhow, so, my answer would be this: each situation is different and each person is an individual, so, play it by ear. if seems like it's right to say something about where you stand or whether or not you're seeing others, then do so. if it doesn't seem like the time (yet) to say something, then don't.

with my last BF, i did tell him how i was feeling about him, frankly and openly, telling him that i only wanted to see him and was at the point of simply having lost interest in anyone else, only to find that very soon after that i needed to break off the relationship for good for reasons completely unrelated to this question...

oh well :-) but i think the only answer to this question is: do what seems right and appropriate in the moment and given the particular circumstances of that connection.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Oh now, she looses the weight
Posted: 8/1/2008 2:54:40 PM

I dated and married my wife when she was over weight. She gained a lot during our marriage. I think she was up to 325. I constantly encouraged her to eat right and go the gym.

Our marriage failed for various reasons. It was never about body shapes. I'm not Shallow Hal.

Now that she's getting remarried, she can eat right and go to they gym? I hate to admit that she looks good.


you know, OP, what i find troublesome about this post? it's the way you seem to think her weight (whatever it is) is about you. or has something to do with you. or is what it is as a response to you. or as a means to bother you in some way or another (too much while married, not enough now because she's supposed to stay fat because she was fat with you).

there is also this weird way that you contradict yourself here: you claim that you are NOT "shallow hal", that the break up had nothing to do with her weight, but at the same time, it is NOW, that she has lost weight, that you hate having to admit "she looks good." so, in other words she didn't look good when she was heavy and only looks good, by your standards, now that she's lost the weight.

there's a lot here to think about -- but it surely seems to me that before you try to to make another LTR work with another woman that you realize two things: 1) figure out how you really feel about overweight women (if you don't like it, then don't get together with another overweight woman, get together with someone who "looks good" and is into fitness); 2) far more important than that, you need to figure out how to really come to an understanding that a woman's weight is about HER. that her body does not exist only in relation to you and to your desires. that a woman is a discrete being with a subjectivity of her own. and that a partner can only be a true and good partner for a woman if he understands that -- if, in other words, he understands that her body and her health and her choice to be fit or trim or fat or unfit -- these things are NOT about him.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 48 (view)
 
Would You Be Mad
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:38:08 PM
it would bug me seriously and alot if i found out that my boy friend had created a profile on a dating site

after all, there are L O A D S of sites where you can network, make friends, have discussion about all kinds of different topics

why choose a personals site, unless you're not too terribly sure if you like the person you're with?

nah, doesn't fly with me. two thumbs down.

...as for me, if i WAS in a committed relationship? no way would i be spending time here -- sorry folks, got stuff to do. don't have time to be spending time on personals sites... unless i'm single and looking for somebody.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 671 (view)
 
Is Intelligence A Curse In Relationships?
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:51:07 PM
oh gosh, OP, what an unhappy prognosis for us smarty pants types!

i don't think the forecast is anywhere near that grim, altho i was just saying to a friend today that i think my need for interesting, deep conversation has made me less than interested in a number of people i've met or talked to, and vice verse.

but i don't at all think that intellectuals are full of themselves or otherwise undesirable as partners. people of any level of intelligence or education can be any of the negative qualities you point out (controlling manipulative egocentric, etc., i honestly don't feel that i am any of those things and certainly do not desire to be with a guy who is! sheesh! )

i think it's the same as any other personality characteristic: there aren't that many people like this or like that or like this other thing, and finding someone suitable takes time...

and patience.

ciao!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
 
I Stayed for the Children
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:45:38 PM
The best thing anyone can do for a child is leave a dysfunctional relationship.

It is a lie that parents tell themselves when they say they are staying in an unfulfilling, going no where relationship for the children.

Take it from me -- I grew up in one of those home, and I'm still recovering. As child, I was dying for my parents to break up.


hey ameerra, your question is very clear: why do people stay in bad marriages and use the kids as an excuse for why they stayed?

answer: because they don't have the wherewithal to do the right thing -- for the kids -- and split up. because they are shallow wimps who don't care enough about themselves or each other or their kids to do the right thing and split up.

one of the most important things a child needs is a happy, stable homelife.

one of the most damaging things for kids is a homelife that is a sham, that is unstable or unhappy.

that is why i divorced when my kids were still babies.

now? they are happy, productive, professional adults.

why?

well, for a lot of reasons. but one of the most important of those has got to be that they grew up in a happy home with a happy mommy.

in a word, your point is well taken. and appreciated. it is a point that is often missed or overlooked intentionally by the more conservative among us.

thanks for bringing it up!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 618 (view)
 
If someone emails you with misspelled words and bad grammar, do you respond?
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:25:47 PM

ps: jazz-fan, i completely agree with all the sentiments you expressed. excellent comment. (and btw, i tried to e-mail you but can't because of your age restrictions. too bad. had wanted to get in touch. :-))

Try again :)


oh jeez jazz-fan, you've got other restrictions that won't let me through to you. it seems this connection is not meant to be made, unfortunately.

you can mail me, if you like.

in grammatical solidarity ;)
~merf
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 612 (view)
 
If someone emails you with misspelled words and bad grammar, do you respond?
Posted: 6/30/2008 10:07:32 PM
in answer to:

If someone emails you with misspelled words and bad grammar, do you respond?

personally, i care alot about grammar and spelling and yes -- i immediately delete e-mails i get if they are sloppily written or carelessly done. i feel this way: take the time to do it right if you want me to take interest. (ps: i am an english teacher, btw. :-))

ps: jazz-fan, i completely agree with all the sentiments you expressed. excellent comment. (and btw, i tried to e-mail you but can't because of your age restrictions. too bad. had wanted to get in touch. :-))
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 102 (view)
 
The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:28:41 PM
hey dallas flier,
interestingly was just discussing something similar on another site today.
it's an interesting question.
i think one of the real issues in online dating is peoples' sense that there must be exactly what you describe, an instant chemistry thing, which i suppose means an instant certainty that you are attracted to this person and "into" them.
that's a problem because it takes time, imho, to get to know a person and thus to know whether or not you're into them or "feeling" them in that way.
one of the things that happens in online dating (and i might be guilty of this myself, dunno) is that people write each other off instantly (for lots of reasons, some of which are silly and small and unimportant) so that what ends up happening is that they find themselves interminably single and wondering why.
it's just one of the many things about online dating that makes me feel it just doesn't work...
better to meet someone spontaneously and unexpectedly so that you are both just being yourselves and being "real."
ciao.
~merf.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 116 (view)
 
Is this as twisted as I think it is? Or just spectacularly funny!
Posted: 11/4/2007 9:36:25 PM
hey a bit nomadic -- what a very strange thing that is -- i think that is really just plain downright weird, and i am pretty certain i'd have dumped the guy on the spot. no looking back. anyone who e-mails something like that is just, i'm sorry to say, seriously deranged.

sheesh! what possesses people to do such things is way WAY beyond me...

ciao bella! :)
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 115 (view)
 
Is sex over-rated ?
Posted: 10/3/2007 9:23:11 PM
u m m m m m m m m, NO -- sex is definitely NOT over rated.

i repeat: sex is definitely NOT, i repeat, NOT over rated.

anyone who ONLY has sex to please their partner is a mess, needs therapy, and perhaps also couples counseling.

definitely can not and should not live without sex. it is unnatural and unhealthy and betrays a mind unbalanced and in desperate need of counseling.

that's all.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 84 (view)
 
Dumped mid date!!
Posted: 10/3/2007 9:19:54 PM
forget about it, OP, move on to the next guy.

either you messed up.

or he did.

either way, i think you need to just move on.

you were not happy at the time, SO unhappy in fact that you walked out of the place, embarrassing him, and sort of ending things at that point.

so, it's over -- move on -- find somebody who doesn't upset you.

good luck!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 70 (view)
 
Caught him... now what?
Posted: 8/6/2007 8:00:54 PM

but his profile is still on here and shows he's been online today. (He's told her he hasn't had the internet in weeks!) Do I say anything, or do I let it go?


yes, triple, say something -- what else can you do? keep it to yourself? that doesn't seem possible...

gosh, isn't it horrible the way people lie like that? i mean, why would the guy MOVE IN with her if he's still trying to hook up with other women?

it is because of that -- that he is planning to move in with her -- that i think you should tell her -- what if she finds out in a month or two that he's cheating? how will she get rid of him then? what a mess...

best of luck OP!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 104 (view)
 
0 roses... Would you email them?
Posted: 7/18/2007 8:51:42 AM
^^ ^^ ^^ i loved that response, cool dude! well said!

who gives a rat's patoot about virtual roses ???? it seems to me that people will come up with any excuse to actually AVOID meeting someone, getting close to someone, or actually DO the thing they say they are here to do -- which is find love, including "freaking out" about if they have roses, or their online/offline stuff, or whatever... why not just TALK to the person and see if you click?!?!

just recently i was talking to a guy on IM who sounded SO interested -- now? he needs me to send him my number again (can't find it), he also did not call sunday monday or tuesday when he said he would.

this is the thing i am most tired of in online personals -- the flaky people, the way people say one thing and behave completely contrary to that. it's just a phone call -- what's the big deal? it's just virtual roses -- who cares about it? it is totally and completely meaningless in both the short term and the long term and any which way one might look at it...

and that's my rant on this fine day.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
 
Workaholic or player?
Posted: 7/12/2007 9:19:56 PM

I don't need someone with issues anyway. I have enough of my own right now. I am curious to know why he took his profile down, and if I ever catch him on messenger when I'm on, I'm gonna ask him that...not that he'll tell the truth, but I'm still gonna ask.


why he took his profile down? because he's married? and got caught? because he's seeing a bunch of people, one of whom said "i won't believe you're really serious about me if you don't delete your profile," and so he did? who knows, what you do know is that it has nothing to do with you and therefore it must have something to do with some other woman, a wife, a GF, who knows... and my opinion? who cares!

glad to hear you've moved on!!!!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 48 (view)
 
Why do younger men love older women, but rarely *date* them?
Posted: 7/12/2007 8:11:36 AM

I think the guys who hit on you but don't want a relationship are pursuing you for the sexual fantasy side of the coin but some younger guys in your age bracket are certainly going to be thinking about having kids down the road and if they want to wait 8-10 years they may see that as an obstacle to a relationship.


that's exactly the problem. and it's part of the reason why i'm only interested in guys around my age or older than me (which, because i get hit on by young guys so often, is why i have a statement to that effect in my profile).

not to mention that altho i'm only 45 i have kids in their mid 20's. so, were i to date a guy (like that situation mentioned above) who's 24? he'd be 2 years younger than my son. and three years younger than my daughter. and that would just be too freaky weird. even just the thought of it makes me think a spontaneous "ewwwwww."

and as you say irreverent, i don't want a guy who has so much growing to do...

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 15 (view)
 
Workaholic or player?
Posted: 7/11/2007 7:20:34 PM
talksalot, these are the things that, taken together (not as individual things, but as a whole package) would likely make me ditch this guy:

--made a date with you, didn't keep it, made an excuse re: one of his kids
--wants to see you late at night, and, less important, he wants you to come to him
--asked you to come to his place (rather than going out to dinner and a movie or whatever)
--calls late at night and talks with his voice lowered

also, that line about "my only mistress is work" -- well, it sounds like a line. something he probably first said to his wife. <roll eyes> (er, well, it is only married men, of necessity, who can have mistresses. :-))

that he goes offline when you IM him? that could be for any number of reasons. i wouldn't worry about things you cannot know the cause of or don't involve how he is with you, focus on what he says to you or what he expects or wants with you.

but the things i bullet pointed above? these are facts. these are things that happened and/or are the ways by which he wants to have his relationship with you.

what do these things tell you? think about it. how do men act with women they're seriously interested in in a legit way? i don't think they act like this, or expect these things, or talk like that on the phone. and they definitely know better than to ask you come to their place rather than go out on a bona fide date.

nah, doesn't look good.

expect from men what you deserve -- respect, honesty, and to be valued for much more than your 'booty.' :-)

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 31 (view)
 
A new way of being sneaky
Posted: 7/11/2007 5:22:04 PM

Credit me with writing that late at night with anger in my heart. It just seemed to me that most people who you may have thought were being harsh, were just saying it the way it was. The OP IS young and not much experience. She needs to grow a bit more and with experience will begin to see where she may have used not enough discretion.


thank you for saying mea culpa, 2 wheel. i appreciate it.

and yes, you are right -- she IS young and thus probably also not very experienced and i guess that is part of the reason why i felt the need to say what i did about people not being nice. i mean -- many of us have kids ourselves, mine are in their 20's, and there isn't any reason why, online, we shouldn't be just as understanding and kind as we would be with our own children.

maybe that's assuming too much?

anyhow, about the bashing, bottomline: there are jerky men online and there are jerky women online and there are too many of both those species and one of the things that happens as a result of that is that a crazy sounding idea such as being suspicious of a guy who indicates "long term" in his profile (when long term is exactly what you're looking for) actually starts to make sense... when that happens, you know something is very wrong.

all i can say is, bottoms up!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 82 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/11/2007 8:00:43 AM
real authentic, i don't think you can actually close down a thread, my friend.

but i agree with you that some of the recent posts were just over the top harsh and nasty.

i don't know why (and i was just complaining about this on another thread) people have such a penchant on these forums for meanness and nastiness. it is very common. for example, for people to tell someone to "get therapy!" or otherwise judge a person's mental or emotional soundness, saying things like "you're obviously unbalanced." eg., i thought what TXZN said about your not having a male presence in your life or whatever that crapola was? very nasty, unnecessarily hurtful, and downright dumb. no one has the right to say that kind of stuff to a complete stranger and most people would not say that kind of thing even to people they are close to out of love... here it is just ire and meanness. it is very very sad the way people act, a damn shame.

expectations of civility in interpersonal discourse is something that seems to have gone by the wayside in these forums, that just doesn't stop people from being totally savage to others. and it's pretty ironic when the profiles of these mean people say things like "looking for a good hearted woman" or "looking for somebody nice sweet kind" when they act like brutes themselves... how are you going to find somebody nice when you talk to people like that?

best of luck OP, i wish you the very best! i am sure you will find somebody great!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 30 (view)
 
A new way of being sneaky
Posted: 7/11/2007 7:32:55 AM

That was me..... and guess what it's still going on. I would suggest you read the responses from men... I think they go out of their way to try and find some advice to say to the OP. Quite a few of the women on this thread are doing NOTHING else but put men down.


2wheel, why does it seem as if, from these comments, you have assumed that i was saying that only MEN are being mean? i wasn't saying that at all!!!! i don't look at the gender of posters, i just look at the postings, and what i was saying was that i felt people were being mean and nasty and that i don't like it and am tired of it.

you know, you just seem really over the top defensive -- maybe you are right that the men on this thread have been nicer than the women, maybe you are wrong, but that's totally off the point of what i was saying. i wasn't talking about women putting men down, i was talking about people insulting the OP.

quite frankly, you come across to me as every bit as obnoxious as the people you complain about... simply because women are talking about a problem they experience with men in online personals does not automatically mean they are "man bashing". it means they're talking about issues they have in this process.

yes, in every thread like this there are always a few fools who say stupid things like "99% of men are like this or that" but the discerning among us can see that for what it is. does that mean that women should NEVER be able to complain about the issues they encounter in dating? besides, if you're not one of the jerky types women complain about, then what's the point in being so defensive? you should be happy realizing that the pool of truly eligible men is much smaller than it seems... and if you're one of the good guys then, don't worry, be happy!


Frankly it seems to me that a fair portion of the females who do post have nothing but negative things to say about men in general and are more than likely not worth looking at, pursuing, or even noticing.


well now, that's just rude. do you know how many times on POF i have said something like, "of course this isn't true of all men, but there are men who do this or that" and i have been pounced on angrily by defensive men such as yourself and accused of "man bashing"? it is ridiculous!

and i am one of those women who, when female friends of mine actually DO man bash, saying things like, "men are pigs!" or "they're all **stards!", i am the one always saying things like, "now, you know that's not true!" and stuff like that. and yet on these forums i get attacked left and right simply because i have admitted to an issue women experience with men! am i supposed to lie and say that men are all marvelous and wonderful and good and honest?? is that what you want?!

did you ever consider the possibility that if there were fewer jerks in online personals there would be fewer threads like this one?

what i wanna know is, where is the "men bashing" on this thread, other than the 99% comment, can you point us to a place where a woman has bashed men?

that would be great, thank you very much.

grrrrrrrrr yourself!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 24 (view)
 
A new way of being sneaky
Posted: 7/10/2007 8:22:04 PM

If he truly wants a long term relationship... he wont try to get you in bed quickly...


bingo -- exactly my feeling, couldn't have said it better myself.

that is one good reason for waiting a while before jumping in the sack, especially when you met the guy thru online personals.

which i say only because i believe there is a higher percentage of liars, players, cheaters (what have you, and of both sexes) in online personals.

unfortunately, it seems to be a magnet for that type... blah.

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 22 (view)
 
A new way of being sneaky
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:57:16 PM
...the thing i'm wondering about, reading the postings on this thread, is why the heck can't people be NICE? so, you think the OP is inexperienced and naive, that she's saying something you've heard a thousand times (because of course you are so much more experienced and so much less naive?) -- why do y'all have to be so damn mean and sarcastic and snotty? why can't ya just be nice? has kindness actually become passe around here????

so what if the OP is 'green' in your view? she's talking from her own experience and the place she occupies in the world and in time. why can't you just be nice? if the thread annoys you? then MOVE ON and participate in threads where you have something to contribute. most of the people posting on this thread (there are a few exceptions, thankfully!!!!) have absolutely nothing to contribute but ire and haughtiness and snottiness. move on, will ya?

and perhaps give some thought to the possible connection between your difficulty finding a partner and your penchant for pouncing with your fangs and your claws when you spot a person you clearly consider inferior to yourself...

someone said he's tired of man bashing?

well, i am tired of this shit.
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
A new way of being sneaky
Posted: 7/10/2007 6:37:28 PM
OP, i have come across that a few times myself. way back when i first started in online personals, guy i was talking to (not from here) had "long term" in his profile. then, in his first e-mail to me, he tells me that he's not really looking for a "relationship" in the foreseeable future, does not see that as part of his life for sometime to come, wants to date various people, keep things open and let a relationship organically evolve if it is meant to be. he asked me if i am ok with that, etc. i said, sure, yea, that's fine (relationships take time anyway, and you always start out dating) but then i asked him: so, why did you list long term in your profile when that's clearly not what you're looking for? considering it takes all of ten seconds to change it, why not just change it so that your profile is truly honest? he said some BS about just not getting around to it yadda yadda.

then a few weeks later, this was like a day or two before we were to have met for a first date, he calls me at like midnight and tells me he's home alone unexpectedly and will i come over? well, he knew first of all that i was with my son and his GF and besides, he and i had not even met yet. so i said well no i don't wanna do that, etc... in response to which he starts giving me guilt trips and putting all this manipulative pressure on me -- "why am i so repressed? why don't i loosen up and just spend the night with him...?" and so on.

i hung up on him. didn't meet him. and realized he was completely full of shit. he's a really slick player who just wants a booty call but has dressed it up to make it look like something else. up to that point he had me pretty much fooled, i must admit. i had thought he was really cool and had been looking forward to meeting... altho, he had, in something like our 6th or 7th phone call, asked me if i'd have phone sex with him, which i declined. (doh! that shoulda been my first clue, but i just figured he was horny, and at that point was not as experienced as i am now at this.)

in response to 'what are you looking for?' his profile should actually have said "intimate encounter." and, had it said that? he and i would never have had a single conversation...

so yep, you're right, and it happens all the time. just gotta look out for the clues. and ask the right questions. and remember that where there's smoke there's fire -- in other words, if something sounds like bull? it probably is.

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 74 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/10/2007 4:23:35 PM
real authentic, hi -- this:


well i happen to like being sensitive and having BALANCE..i am very proud to be at one with both the feminine and the masculine that we ALL posses...


i liked very much. i wish more guys understood that. a guy who is a mister macho type and always proving and reproving his masculinity? this kind of guy is actually one of the least attractive kinds of guys to me.

in terms of what i had said about that statement, it seemed to me as tho you were saying that you had told her that it's ok she doesn't return your feelings so soon, which implies you told her how you felt. maybe you didn't mean that you told her it's ok she doesn't return your feelings, but that you were just saying that to all of us reading your thread?

but no, that was not said out of ridicule but out of my desire to talk really openly about the situation.

and even tho greyfold sounds kinda harsh in the message preceding mine, i think some of what he says is really spot on, and that you should consider it. it does also seem to me that your expectations were way too high way too soon with regard to this woman.

i think maybe for the future it's good to simply remain aware of the psychology of online dating -- we all have to do that -- and not let ourselves get carried away too fast.

think about it -- how many people do you know who will say things like (such as on the POF forums) "i thought he was the one" in reference to a guy she hadn't even met yet? it happens all the time. people get WAY carried away before even meeting and on first dates. it's a BIG problem in terms of meeting people this way.

but hey, we all learn through experience -- i certainly have -- so chalk it up to that and i do wish you much better luck next time!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 70 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/10/2007 6:10:35 AM
good post, TXZN. i think a dose of realism may be just what the doctor ordered in this case...

and i went back and looked -- and it was this comment that made me think the OP discussed his feelings with the woman on that first date:


anyway i dont blame her for not feeling that way, that soon.


if how you felt about each other was not discussed, then how did you know she didn't return your feelings?

anyhow -- joyful life -- i wanted to say, i am SO sorry to hear that that happened to you. very bad. and very sad. yes there are too many of those men on this site. i do wish there was a way to weed thru the people and somehow highlight all their profiles so we'd know who to avoid. :-P

oh well, lesson learned -- don't give up. the nicest guys i've met have been from here. so, there surely are nice guys out there...

cheers to all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
 
forgive or move on?
Posted: 7/9/2007 9:45:08 PM

I need opinions, would you forgive your best friend (of over twenty years) for sleeping with a man who you werent dating but you really liked alot? Even if the man was a total jerk and was never right for you in the first place.


well, if she knew you wanted to go out with him before she started dating him? yea, it's kinda weird.

my advice? forgive her but also move on. do both.

and if the man IS a total jerk who isn't right for you (and if he's a total jerk, how could he be right for anyone?), then, be glad you have been spared the pain and heart ache of being hurt by him (after all, jerks hurt people, that's why they're jerks) and be glad that it is her and not you dating him...

best of luck!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 58 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/8/2007 7:44:31 PM
hey loyal, yea, it was me who said that about feelings and taking your time and not acting on them til you're more sure of them, etc.

i agree with you that it is problematic for a guy to say "she reminded me of a past love" and to think that those feelings he's having for her (the one he just met) are 'real.'

with the guy who said to me "i've been waiting for you all my life" after having spent one hour with me -- that is exactly what i suspected. i just happened to be physically every single thing he was looking for -- down to my hair color and length, my build, everything. this made me feel 'icky', as if he was trying to bring back someone from the past thru me.

the biggest problem with it is that it means the desire to be with me is precisely NOT a desire to be with ME, it is about a desire to recuperate someone who has been lost.

and i want to be desired for who i am, not because i am LIKE someone else.

ciao all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 118 (view)
 
i can believe everyone has been ditching me because i don't have a picture ....
Posted: 7/8/2007 6:07:14 PM
just wanted to report: it's only been a few days, but -- so far, i am much happier with the people contacting me since i turned off the pics and changed my profile. some really interesting, serious, mature guys have contacted me in the last few days and i am very much pleased with the change.

it's strange how the NEGATIVE effects pics can have on this process never dawned on me before reading lucky's post . oh well...

anyway, right about now i am really glad that i have been participating in these forums (which can be horribly annoying at times) because otherwise i'd never have made the change...

woo hoo!!!!

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 55 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/8/2007 2:26:59 PM
hi real,

i certainly didn't mean to offend you with my comments -- was just being honest. perhaps i made some assumptions about what happened with you based on some of my own all-too-common experiences. sorry about that.

i surely did gather from your OP that you had let her know how you felt -- i thought you said something about telling her she didn't need to respond in kind right away? if you said that, then i guess i just assumed you told her how you were feeling...

re: confidence:

the problem with the situations i've been in is quite the reverse, real -- they have left me feeling like those guys sorely lacked confidence and self-esteem, and those are things that to me are very VERY important. in order to have a happy successful relationship, i do feel that both parties need to be reasonably secure and generally happy with their lives. being happy with your life means you know how to make yourself happy and what makes you happy -- it means you know yourself well enough to know what you need, what you want, and what you cannot live with.

eg., i want to find a guy who is already happy IN his life, as a single person -- happy with his kids or his career or his friends or his interests, or all of that, but happy he must be, not one who thinks the right woman is going to 'make everything right' and finally make him into a happy person -- been there, done that, not doing it again. i think anyone who is single and thinks they're unhappy because they're single has another thing coming, big time. they are unhappy simply because they just aren't happy.

so the guys who came across to me as tho they fell in love with me instantly? they each left me feeling like their lives are empty and like they thought i was going to be the thing that 'filled it up.' that just doesn't happen, it is a recipe for disaster. one of these guys even told me all he wants in life is a woman to love and worship -- "then he will be happy" he said to me. blech!!!! what about wanting to make the world a better place? or wanting to be a good father? or wanting to follow your dreams?

anyhow, sorry for my misunderstanding...

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 44 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/8/2007 10:28:45 AM

he was meant to come by yesterday but didnt, not even a call. seems self explanitary to me but what do i do.


hi fizzy. thinking that you might try what someone else on this thread said they did -- wait a bit and then write to them. perhaps people get freaked because of the pressure and intensity of meeting this way. maybe write in a week and say hi and just say something like, i think you're really cool and i'd love to keep this going between us and it's ok to chill and take it slower and be more laid back about it... etc etc etc.

you never know -- it might not be that he has lost interest, it could be, as with that other poster, that he got overwhelmed or something.

just a thought! all the best to ya!

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 173 (view)
 
A strange situation..Can someone makes sense of this PLEASE? MY DATE FOR TONIGHT THAT ISN'T!
Posted: 7/7/2007 2:52:36 PM
enigma, as you would probably guess, i am not surprised (which i say only based on everything you had told us about him in this thread), but you don't need to apologize, we were all just sharing our guesses and opinions and assumptions about a person none of us, including you, knows much about.

but, let there be no doubt about something: when someone says, as his friend did:


"How'd you find out he was married?"


that means he's married. if he wasn't married? anthony would have said, "what do you mean? he's not married." or "oh well he used to be but he's divorced now," or something like that. he would never have said ""How'd you find out he was married?". not a chance.

best of luck with the fishing, enigma, and no -- you don't have a jerk magnet. :-) you're just a very sweet nice person who is maybe a wee small bit too trusting.

take care, my friend!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 109 (view)
 
He's back and he plays woman... what to do?
Posted: 7/7/2007 2:23:29 PM

Okay this is what I think the women should e-mail each other so we will know who the players are.I mean that goes for men too as some woman are just gold diggers and out for the money and don,t care how many men they sleep with as long as they get there presents.I can,t stand someone deceiving another person that,s not playing fair...


an angel in blue, i made this suggestion a month or two ago (after the site feature was deleted so fast it never even got off the ground) and i was tarred and feathered for it, the most traumatizing abusive thread i've been involved in on this site. in fact, i still have guys from that thread attacking me on others. unbelievable...

but i'll second you here -- i think it's a good idea.

and i think the guys who are so defensive and angry about us warning each other are more than likely the very same guys doing the playing, the cheating, the lying, etc.

cutie 99, in response to your OP: sorry this happened to you, but as at least one other person said, there is the very important consideration that whatever he does with other people is not your responsibility but his and theirs. if he wasn't on this site, he'd be on another, and then another and another and another... ya know? so, i think it's ok to just block the guy and ignore it.

i also understand your desire to give a guy a chance. we have to do that in any case if we are going to find love. i also understand having suspicions but trying, again, to give the guy a chance and not judge him too harshly or quickly. we have all been there and we have all done that and it is nothing to be ashamed of.

at the same time, i think el mariachi is right when she says we really must listen to our instincts. usually they are right. in fact, the mistakes i have made in my life are those times when i ignored my instincts.

the difficulty is finding the balance between listening to our instincts and trying to be open and understanding regarding a guy we are getting to know.

there are no easy answers. but you have done the right thing by moving on, saying 'bye' and getting back out there trying to find someone new. as for me, i'd focus on that rather than continuing to be occupied by your concerns about this guy and what he may be doing with or to other women. they have to follow their instincts and be realistic with themselves and make their own positive choices, and there is little you can do with regard to any of that.

think about it -- somebody let you know about this guy but you ignored it and chose instead to believe him that they were just jealous. the same would probably be true if you were to notify someone. better for everyone, i think, to stay focused on their own shit and make sure they themselves are making good choices and so on...

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 32 (view)
 
the jolt of a lifetime...
Posted: 7/7/2007 9:56:50 AM
real-authentic (OP), i am sorry to have to say this -- but if it were me and you fell for me that hard, that fast? i'm pretty certain i'd not see you again either. that has happened to me 4 times since i started online dating and each time i have rejected the guy.

first of all, i think it isn't real -- i think it's some trick of the mind that happens in online dating. like, there's this big build up and if the woman is even reasonably close to what the guy expected he gets that jolt and tells her on the first night "I want to spend the rest of my life with you!" this has happened to me and i immediately rejected the guy. or he said "I want you to have my child and live with me." or he said "I've been waiting for you all my life" after having spent one hour and had one coffee with me. no -- not going for that. quite honestly, i think it bespeaks deeper concerns. and a kind of desperation that is really not attractive to me at all.

if the guy knows what he feels and really truly deeply means what he says? he would never say something like that when he does not know me at all, or has only spent three hours in my company. (to the guy who said "I've been waiting for you all my life" i said, how could you possibly know that? what if i'm the wicked witch of the west? how would you know, right now, whether i am or am not?) if he cares about himself the way i want him to? and if he is concerned about being really truthful and sincere and responsible in everything he says (as i would want him to), then he'd not say something like that to me having only just met me.

whatever he FEELS is another thing. but just because you FEEL something (or THINK you do) does not mean you have to act on it, and it does not mean you have to say it. the guy i'd wanna be with would take the time to consider his feelings and see what he thinks and feels over time. not to mention that feelings change sometimes in the clear light of the day after the date...

i DON'T (repeat DO NOT) want that kind of unthinking, careless romantic thing. i do not want a guy to "worship" me (as one guy said he would do) or any such thing. (i'm not going to "worship" him, but i will LOVE him.) i want a guy who likes me for ALL of who i am (my brain and my ethics and my humor and all that along with how i look) and who knows why he likes me and wants to be with me and can articulate that and explain it.

th th th that's all folks!

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 101 (view)
 
i can believe everyone has been ditching me because i don't have a picture ....
Posted: 7/6/2007 8:25:23 PM
^^^^ wow, lucky ducky 101, you are even starting to convince me, and i am a die hard 'gotta have a pic' type (as you can see from my earlier post on this thread)... great post. and a very good argument.

hmmmm... it's an interesting idea, the notion that you will attract, as you say, a "bunch of ga ga addicts" by having a pic in your profile, particularly if you are attractive.

i feel as tho i have been getting e-mails for the wrong reasons also, and, recently, had decided to throw in the towel on online dating because of that and various other difficulties. like the guys who pretend to be everything you're looking for so that you will like them and give them a chance -- probably only because they think you're hot -- not a good idea guys!!!!

i can't tell you how many times i have gotten mails from guys who say they are really very much interested in me, that they "loved" my profile, and so forth, only to find that they didn't read a single bleedin word in the damn profile -- that all they were responding to (i mean ALL) was my photo! and that what they really liked was ONLY how i looked! blah! blech! ahhh!!!! all i wanna say in those cases is, ok let's rewind this scene and go back to the start and begin again only AFTER you've read the darn thing.

now, you've got me thinking: maybe i will remove all my pics and see if the kind of guys i want to hear from actually start writing to me -- now wouldn't that be something?!

in fact, i think i WILL do it. for a trial run at least... can't hurt! ...at least that way they can't be responding to what i look like and can only be responding to the content of my profile...

thanks lucky, cheers to one and all!

post script: pics are gone... :-)
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 59 (view)
 
i can believe everyone has been ditching me because i don't have a picture ....
Posted: 7/3/2007 6:24:00 AM

Stop fretting....I don't have a photo on my profile , however I have one to forward if its requested....furthermore I'm not having a problem receiving messages....


yes fine, but, to all of you who don't have a photo in your profile, why not just put at least one photo in the profile? why go through the rigamarole of having to e-mail the photo privately to anyone you are talking to? i don't understand that.

i have something like 5 photos in my profile. and i have a job, i have students, i have reasons i could make up for not putting one there, but i don't expect people to talk to me or take an interest if they can't have some idea of what i look like.

besides, i have nothing to hide, and i am not hiding from anyone, so, why not just put the photo in the profile?

????

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 42 (view)
 
i can believe everyone has been ditching me because i don't have a picture ....
Posted: 7/2/2007 6:11:06 PM

i can believe it as well


me too.

it's amazing to me that people want to be in this game and yet they refuse to put a picture of themselves (a recent picture) in their profile.

this is not about "looks" or about being shallow.

it's about knowing who you're talking to. it is about avoiding players. it is about avoiding the kinds of horror stories you can read every day on this site by people who WERE kind enough to talk to someone and get to know them and even plan to meet them without ever having seen a picture of them!

i would never do that, i think it's nuts.

if you're not willing to fork over the pic? something's not right.

that's my policy, and i'm stickin to it.

cheers!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Stranded First date..first impression goes awry
Posted: 7/2/2007 10:49:52 AM

I think you went above and beyond for the first date.
If a guy kept changing the times on me like she did with you, after the second phonecall I would tell him he was taking the piss and if he didnt give me a realist time for when he was going to arrive i would be going home.


i agree with londonbabe here.

being on time for a first date (and generally speaking) is important. it's one thing to be a few minutes late, it's another to leave a person sitting someplace waiting for half an hour, an hour, and certainly for hours on end.

she sounds like really bad news. i am surprised that didn't show up at all in your conversations? or e-mails?

anyhow, OP, i agree with the others, you are really patient, which is a true virtue.

better luck next time!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
 
What's with this?
Posted: 7/1/2007 5:51:12 PM

This is the first time a man has told me I need to "get some help". Actually, it was more involved than that, but the gist was that I needed psychiatric care. I would assume that it's because I don't want him. I can't really think of another reason. Nobody has ever said that to me before.


people of small mind and underdeveloped maturity say things like that all the time because they don't know how to deal with their own emotions.

chances are, a person who will say something like that to someone else is in fact the one who needs the help.

probably hurt and having ego pangs and just doesn't know how to respond to you in a mature, reasonable way, so, says things that are hurtful or intended to make you feel 'low.'

someone just said that to me recently on one of these threads -- just a putz who doesn't know how to have a real intellectual conversation with me, so, tells me shite like that.

don't worry over it at all, ignore it, move on and find somebody who is mature and knows how to deal with his own emotions -- and with a woman who has a mind of her own and isn't afraid to express it.

cheers!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 96 (view)
 
0 roses... Would you email them?
Posted: 7/1/2007 5:44:38 PM

When you see a profile that you like and maybe would like to email them then see down at the bottom that they have 0 roses to send, is that a red flag to you? Yellow flag maybe?

Does it make you think twice about emailing them or maybe click to another profile and forget about it?


wow, there ARE legitimate red flags we could be concerned about -- but looking at whether or not they have any roses left? that's really taking it too far -- it almost sounds like looking for any possible reason you can come up with to avoid people.

i just sent a rose to a guy the other day only because he had sent me some virtual thing or the other, and he is someone i only feel friendly towards in a platonic way, i wouldn't date him if he asked me to, but i DID want to send something in thanks for his, so -- i sent him a rose.

is this actually a big deal to people?

of course i'd e-mail a guy with fewer than 2 roses, of course it is not a yellow flag, and of course it does not make me think twice about anything whatsoever.

my advice? worry about things that have actual meaning, OP, and leave the nonsense be.

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Why do younger men love older women, but rarely *date* them?
Posted: 7/1/2007 5:35:52 PM

as an older woman (34) who prefers younger men (early/mid 20's) i've noticed a trend. while lots of guys cream themselves with excitement over being intimate with an older, more experienced woman...they become intimidated by the concept of dating one....


this question surprised me, actually.

i get hit on by younger guys ALL the time. and every time? i just delete the message or decline the IM.

SO not interested in dating guys my son's age. blech.

but they sure as heck are interested in me, something that has always surprised me -- but no, it does not flatter me.

anyway, better luck with the younger set, OP -- i wish your experience was more like mine, you'd be much happier methinks!

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 155 (view)
 
A strange situation..Can someone makes sense of this PLEASE? MY DATE FOR TONIGHT THAT ISN'T!
Posted: 6/29/2007 9:32:56 PM

We've been out together 4 times since I posted. He has been calling me everday since the day we met (sometimes twice). We went out to an Italian restaurant (which was $$$, romantic and had fantastic food). After that, we went to see "Knocked Up" and laughed our asssses off....We have been out dancing since, out to lunch, (even did some bar hopping in a trendy neighborhood with a couple of HIS friends - I've met 2 so far....)
I haven't been HAPPIER IN AGES.


that's wonderful news, OP! i am VERY happy for you!!!! being happier than you've been in ages -- that's what it's all about. very glad to hear it...

and btw, i was one of the people being nice to you on this thread (unlike some others) and was simply trying to answer your questions and tell you my perspective on things -- i am a bit surprised by these negative responses from you.

oh well... not important.

best of luck with the guy!!!!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 150 (view)
 
A strange situation..Can someone makes sense of this PLEASE? MY DATE FOR TONIGHT THAT ISN'T!
Posted: 6/27/2007 9:32:14 AM

Soooo What Happened...did he show, beg off again...did u run off and get married....

This thing is ending like the Soporanos....lol


LOL like the sopranos! yea!!!! (btw, i LOVED that last show! i thought it rocked! but, yea, it was the cliffhanger of the decade! )

... my guess? that she has never come back? this means the news is probably not good... had things worked out? seems pretty likely the OP would have come back and given her report.

perhaps she is too embarrassed?

oh well, as i said before, i hope she's doing ok. she seems like a nice young woman...

of course -- she could be away on her honeymoon with the guy, in nuptial bliss :-), but... somehow?

i kinda doubt that.

cheers all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 150 (view)
 
Clues that he's an online player ..
Posted: 6/27/2007 7:16:03 AM

I guess a good clue that he/she is a player is if he/she includes the term player in his/her username. Or is it the other way around?

Is the issue sooooo "jaded" that reverse logic is to be used? No player will openly accept he/she is a player. And trying to prove you are not a player these days, good luck. So, one might as well say "I am a Player" anyway, player or not. Dating USA is soooo zanny these days, it seems!


oh my!!!! i love your new user name, nick! ha!!!!

i almost spit out my coffee when i saw that!

yes, if player is in the screen name, it's a DEFINITE clue that he's not a player.

if he IS is a player, his screen name will be something like "1womantoloveforever" or "lookingformybestfriend" or "honestguy123" or some shite like that...

of course i am kidding... no, you can't tell if someone is honest by their screen name.

and being a player or not is really about honesty, in the end...

instead of calling this 'clues they're a player' we should call it "clues that he/she is honest", or "dishonest" -- that would perhaps be a better way of framing such a discussion...

and yes, dating in the USA is zany indeed! :-)

ciao nikhos!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 130 (view)
 
Clues that he's an online player ..
Posted: 6/26/2007 10:52:05 AM
^^^ ok, nick. :-)

and in response to:


merf1961: don't take this as an insult, but please get counselling. Your posts are dripping with bitterness and you really need to move on not only for your own mental health, but also for those who you interact with on a daily basis. Everyone gets played at least once or twice, both men and women, but we deal with it. Your post history clearly show that you haven't.


thank you very much for your kind advice. it is nice to see that, in this world, people who are complete strangers to you will take the time -- and will CARE enough -- to advise you on such personal matters.

and though i do appreciate your concern, the thing is (and of course, by no means is this meant as an insult), i never have been played.

i don't know what that's like. and so, unlike you and the many others you mention, i don't have that kind of baggage and thus have no need to deal with it.

so, no, we don't all get played. at least i have not. and i surely do hope that will continue to be true.

not only that, i harbor no bitterness whatever against men. or women. or any particular group. and i am truly sorry you have such an impression. perhaps in future you will take the time to read postings with more care, particularly if you are going to continue advising people you do not know about their mental health? reading skills are important in general -- for example, maybe if you were to read things with more care (like e-mails, and the like), you'd successfully avoid players, as i have? just a thought...

but though you have made a few incorrect assumptions, i surely do appreciate your misplaced, uninformed advice.

have a beautiful day, all!
 merf1961
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 128 (view)
 
Clues that he's an online player ..
Posted: 6/26/2007 9:21:32 AM

Yep, no such thing as an online player.
Only a bunch of confused people who have either been seriously hurt before so change their minds from one day to the next about what they are looking for and who can be trusted to provide those needs


wow, this is the most sympathetic definition i have come across for "player." it's great, and i think true of many. but i also know that there are many people who are not at all confused.

perhaps until it has happened to you, until you have been bald faced lied to by someone completely misrepresenting who they are and why they're with you, perhaps until that happens, you just can't believe it possible.

i dunno.

but i know that there is such a thing. and i am sure, as i have said, that they come in both sexes.

in fact, a guy i was talking to for awhile, nice guy, he told me about a woman he had met and dated for awhile. then they stopped seeing each other. a little while later he saw her at a diner, and he walked up to her to say hello and she sort of blanched and then introduced him to her husband, who was standing next to her. a few minutes later when she went to the bathroom, he walked up to the guy and told him the whole story.

when he was dating her? he had absolutely no clue that the woman was married.

so, yes, they do exist and yes, they come in two varieties: male and female.

and nick, i don't think "psychos and other criminal or sick minds or golddiggers" belong in a different category. i think many of these deceitful people are indeed psychopaths and that this is how they get thru life -- they deceive because they don't believe, deep down, that they can simply be themselves and be happy and successful and fulfilled. so, they fulfill themselves by specifically and intentionally deceiving people and taking pleasure in seeing it succeed. this IS pathological. it applies it gold-diggers too unless they are honest with the guy about the fact -- if they deceive him vis a vis their true intentions, then i'd tend to think that the 'player' label applies to them.

ciao bellas!
 
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