Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!


Show ALL Forums
Posted In Forum:

Home   login   MyForums  
 Author Thread: What do you make of younger people who message you then don't reply to your reply?
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 4 (view)
What do you make of younger people who message you then don't reply to your reply?
Posted: 2/26/2019 9:23:57 PM
I see. That option isn't available to male users, at least not on desktop (never tried PoF on mobile) so I was unaware of it. I figured the bots were just programmed to send that message, and since someone I knew to be legitimate sent it as well I figured she was just hijacked.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
What do you make of younger people who message you then don't reply to your reply?
Posted: 2/24/2019 10:33:57 PM
Never mind. Just got inundated by messages from obvious bots. I actually bothered to read them this time, and they were the same "hey there :)" that the woman I personally met keeps sending me.

So her profile is legit but now I suspect that it's been taken over by spammers.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 171 (view)
backcreek 7's playlist ~ all music welcomed !
Posted: 2/24/2019 10:24:43 PM
A little backstory behind this one. I've been a long time fan of Genesis, Collins' and Gabriel's solo work, and Mike and the Mechanics. Before I even knew who they or Phil Collins were I was a fan (at one of my babysitter's the other kids had to stay quiet if the radio was on and a Phil Collins or Genesis song came on, otherwise I'd throw a fit, and a couple of years later at another babysitter's when we'd run to town every week we had to listen to her Invisible Touch tape on the way there and back), and that turned into obsession when I saw their "Way That We Walk" tour televised and I realized that they did all of the songs I loved as a kid.

Fast forward several years. I have no job, no direction, yet another failed relationship under my belt, pushing 40 and no closer to sitting on the porch with my loving wife watching our kids play in the yard than I was when I was 20. Basically I was at rock bottom.

I was on YouTube listening to my standard blue playlist ("The Musical Box," "Don't Give Up," "In The Living Years," "Fading Lights," "Strangers Like Me," most of Gabriel's "Us" album, ten different uploads of "Afterglow" so I didn't have to keep hitting replay, and a little Mumford and Sons thrown in for good measure). Just for kicks I looked at the recommendations.

I thought I knew all of Genesis' songs. It even impressed fellow fans that I knew Do the Neurotic, since the single it appeared on was out of print by the time I even started elementary school and is hard to come by today, but this was a completely new one to me.

The thing that attracted me to Genesis is the fact that I can identify with most of their lyrics, from "Looking for Someone" to "Behind the Lines" to "One Man's Fool" (yes, I even like Calling All Stations). I listened to this "new" song and was blown away. The lyrics resonated with me. They became my driving philosophy. I started to live by them and my life did a complete 180 and turned right side up. These are the words that forever changed my life:

"Naminanu naminanu naminanu namina
Naminanu naminanu naminanu namina
Naminanu naminanu naminanu namina"
Genesis - Naminanu

It's an injustice to the words to merely post them. They must be heard with your own ears:

Remember, friends, naminanu always, but temper it with a bit of namina.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
What do you make of younger people who message you then don't reply to your reply?
Posted: 2/24/2019 9:44:02 PM
Over the last several months I've had girls entirely too young for me messaging me. I can't figure out the reason, because women in their mid to late 20s don't often seek out men in their late 30s. I'm honest about my income, <$20,000 per year so they're not looking for a sugar daddy from me. I highly doubt my profile pic is turning any heads, and while the current incarnation of my profile is absurdity born out of boredom, a friend of mine told me it makes me seem like a loose cannon so I doubt they're attracted to anything on it.

The bots are easy to spot, usually professional pictures, in another state, and an About Me section that says something like "I'm letting go of my inhibitions," plus PoF does a pretty good job of deleting them. Got a message from a bot this afternoon then a few hours later the message was gone, meaning the account was deleted. I know at least one of them is legitimate because I met her in person a few years ago. I was handing out produce boxes for my sister-in-law every week in this woman's home town and from time to time she'd come out to get her mother's box. I'm reasonably sure a lot of the others are legit. Multiple cell phone selfies, the obligatory friend's wedding picture, a fleshed out About Me, etc.

Initially I didn't respond to any of them because they're too young for me, the exception being the one who picked up the produce boxes and only because I figured she was going to ask on behalf of her mother if my sister-in-law was going to start doing them again. She never replied. A month later I got another "hey there :)" from her. I replied again. Then I started replying to messages from the other women to see if they'd follow up. I figured best case scenario I end up with someone to chat with, worst case I have to let them know that they're too young for me.

No replies. Seems like every month I'll get a message from young girls, but when I reply they'll say nothing. A lot of them message me multiple times, always saying the same thing (just a generic "hi" or "hey there," no spam messages), but they never reply.

It doesn't make sense that these women would message me in the first place given that I'm typically out of their age range (in a lot of cases I wouldn't even be able to make first contact because of age settings), but I can't figure out why they're messaging me then giving me the cold shoulder when I respond.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 98 (view)
Too many transgender...
Posted: 2/24/2019 7:56:58 PM

halfofhalfnot, make a profile with a San Francisco address, then come back and tell me with a straight face it's paranoia.

That's a large population center. Dating sites should be supplemental in your case, not primary. Unless you live in a small town like I do where the only people you see for weeks at a time are old enough to be your parents, married, or related to you sites like this should just be something you browse out of boredom before bed.

all the ones I see usually spell out that they are trans in their profiles.

That's all well and good for Houston, but here in MO none of them are clearly labeled. They may be near St. Louis and KC, but in central MO there's no mention of it at all in their profile. Granted we don't have a large TS/TG population in MO, but the handful I've run into who were obviously male made no mention of it.

Maybe these sites need a different category for trans people

Wouldn't do any good in my experience. Ok Cupid lets you select male and female, and it also has an "advanced mode" where you can declare yourself trans or cobble together a custom gender from any of the 65,535 genders out there (correction: 65,536. I have just been informed that potato chip is a gender). It also has search options where you can search for men, women, and any combination of custom genders. Searches strictly for women will turn up people who are obviously men and have their gender option set to female.

Out of curiosity I once did a search for trans women. Just vanilla trans, none of the custom genders. Absolutely no one used the option. After some curious Googling I came across message boards where guys were throwing a fit saying things like "they didn't need to add that option. We're women, period!" before the thread ended with a picture of Trump, signaling the start of the mandatory two minute hate for the day.

With all of those "trans panic murder" cards that they play to shut down debate on things not even remotely related to alphabet soup issues you'd think that they'd want to be open about what they were born with when trying to get a date.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 6 (view)
Why Mr. Foxworthy should be hung from Mr. Trump's wall
Posted: 10/29/2016 2:43:01 PM
He has good material once he gets away from the "you might be a redneck" thing ("Sir, we don't do that here! We just wanted a urine sample!"), but he's as big a fraud as Larry the Cable Guy (who I will also be discussing because the Blue Collar Comedy Tour has tied them together in such a way that you can't think of one without thinking of the other).

I'll admit that I like the Blue Collar Comedy Tour, but it kind of bugs me that Ron White and Bill Engvall seem to be the only genuine people on that stage (not rednecks, I mean someone who isn't playing a character or taking potshots at large sections of the population) while Foxworthy built his career around making fun of an entire class of people and Larry is just a caricature. Foxworthy may have grown up around "rednecks" but I guarantee he was never one himself.

It's like the old days of the "hillbilly" comics. Today Snuffy Smith and Lil' Abner are just cutesy little gag a day comics, Lil' Abner starting as a way for "sophisticated" city folk to laugh at "inbred backwoods hayseeds" and Snuffy getting his start in Barney Google in much the same spirit. Jeff Foxworthy pretty much did the same thing. Took a whole class of people he grew up around, exaggerated things, and that's how he built his business. The fact that he did it with a southern accent and claimed to be one made it seem to be more of an inside joke than the "look at these lazy yokels" thing he most likely intended it as.

Then there's Larry the Cable Guy. In the 90s there was a Canadian TV show that also ran in the US on PBS called the Red Green show. It was meant to be a parody of outdoor shows centering around an inept handyman/outdoorsman. The show was funny because it was just one inept guy getting a group of equally inept guys together to try things they shouldn't have been trying, sometimes even getting an achievement in ignorance (accomplishing something mostly because you didn't realize it was impossible).

Around season 3 they started making it clear that it wasn't just a group of inept guys doing things they lacked the knowledge to do, but their ineptitude stemmed from the fact that they were men. Larry the Cable Guy operates in the same vein. He's not funny because he's a dumb guy who happens to be a redneck. The character was intended to be dumb because he's a redneck.

And really I don't think it's a problem with the performers. It's why I don't like Larry and I'm selective about the Foxworthy material I listen to, but as far as I'm concerned everyone's free to poke fun of whoever they want to. I take a lot of potshots at liberals (or "progressives" or whatever they're calling themselves these days), but I don't expect everyone to like it.

The real problem is that a whole group of people didn't realize they were being made fun of and rallied behind them. There actually are guys out there with multiple vehicles on concrete blocks who don't take the routine as an indictment. They take it as validation. There are guys out there who don't look at the "drunken redneck antics" as poking fun of what a group of idiots look like when they further reduce their mental capacity with copious amounts of alcohol. They actually get out there, get drunk, and aspire to those levels of stupidity.

The problem is with the individuals, not the performers. And for what it's worth, many of the people boasting about being "rednecks" don't even know what a redneck is. It was an insult from the beginning. It's a term that the pasty-faced chardonnay swilling "elites" living off of inheritances coined as a derogatory term for people who actually work for a living. Often they were working outside, in construction or they were busy making sure the properties of the people who looked down on them looked nice, the back of their necks would burn, hence the term "redneck." Factory workers and other people who work inside, no matter how "blue collar" the job, can't even claim the term because it doesn't apply to them.

Really I don't fit any of the modern "redneck" stereotypes. I don't even know what "mudding" is, to me NASCAR is just a bunch of people driving around in circles, I hate bonfires (I'm as scared of fire as most people are of snakes), and I'd rather watch Nova on PBS than go to a rodeo. But my last three jobs had me working in construction, pushing a mower and running a weedeater, and digging trenches. Even though I didn't live the "lifestyle" I was probably more of a redneck at that time than the people who were bragging about "redneck life" and making "Redneck Woman" their anthem.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 128 (view)
MEN What's up with the dick pics??!!
Posted: 7/8/2016 3:16:59 PM

...well, btw, I dunno, to really think about it honestly...I'm sure that dic pics are loved by many women. Some don't like 'em, and many of those who do will pretend that they don't in order to maintain that gender-war propaganda that makes men believe certain things that aren't true - you know, along the lines of that idea that women don't want men as much as men want women, so they can manipulate them.

That's all fine and well, but what about when heterosexual men get caught in the crossfire? I got one of those on my phone a few weeks ago, either a wrong number, a woman gave the aspiring photographer a fake number that just happened to be mine, or he was shotgunning pics not caring who they went to as long as there were some women in the mix.

And several years ago I launched Yahoo Messenger only to find a message window (this was before the days of offline messages appearing in a consolidated box and having to explicitly accept an invitation to send a pic) of a guy holding a ruler next to his. Again, I'm assuming he was shotgunning.

It didn't exactly traumatize me, but I don't want to see that crap. I'm a fairly primitive man, still holding to the belief that success means perpetuating your bloodline with the organ in question being the tool to do so and the weapon to outdo the competition, so seeing another man's is about like a dog baring its teeth at another dog or a bandit taunting his quarry with a dagger.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 15 (view)
Donald Trump is a Fraud Thread
Posted: 6/27/2016 5:08:24 PM
I always get brushed off as a "conspiracy theorist" when I mention this, but I think this is actually an evolved version of the McCaskill Gambit. Whether Trump is a co-conspirator or the unwitting buffoon is yet to be seen.

In 2012 the McCaskill campaign spent $2,000,000 in advertising declaring Akin "too conservative for Missouri" during the primary. I don't know if it was an attempt at reverse psychology, counting on people saying "if McCaskill doesn't want him in the general then he's the one who can beat her," or if she was honestly trying to appeal to moderate Republicans to keep him from getting to the general election, but it was clear that she was trying to choose her opponent in the general election.

Despite Akin's apparent lead before his little slip-up it's almost guaranteed that she would have had an "October surprise." You don't spend $2,000,000 advertising in the opposing party's primary without being prepared to deal with all possible outcomes. If Akin was her chosen opponent it was because she had something on him that would guarantee his defeat if he wouldn't have pretty much gift-wrapped the election and served it up to her on a silver platter. She probably had things on all of the primary candidates just in case the "wrong guy" got the nomination.

And now we've seen it on a national scale. No matter who the front runner was at any given point all of the attention was on Trump. Ben Carson was actually the front runner for a period of time late last year but not many people know it due to the coverage.

During the primaries the media portrayed Trump as an unstoppable juggernaut while constantly attacking him. Even though Trump is far from conservative, they were basically doing the "too conservative for Missouri" routine. They were counting on the right's disdain for the mainstream media to get him the nomination. They were basically saying "we hate this guy. Give him the nomination." They essentially picked Clinton's opponent for her much in the same way you would pick a difficulty setting for a child in a video game.

In the best case scenario the primary/caucus voters gave in to the media's obvious manipulation. Hell, they're probably laughing off camera about how easy it was to herd the "rubes in flyover country" toward the one contender Clinton actually has a shot at beating.

In the worst case scenario Trump is in on it. Now I may be the suspicious type, but I do not trust a man who changes political parties more often than a square dancer changes partners when it comes to the presidency. He may be registered as a Republican, he may be running on the Republican ticket, but if there aren't any antics at the convention that keep him from getting the nomination it wouldn't surprise me at all if he spent the next four months trying to alienate his supporters to lock in Clinton's election.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 2 (view)
Posted: 6/25/2016 1:49:40 PM
It works the other way, too. There are several women running fundraisers to buy me a ticket...
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 93 (view)
Maple Match: Escape from Trump to Canada
Posted: 6/18/2016 11:37:16 PM
I don't like Trump (don't construe that as support for Hillary, because I would vote for the bloated corpse of a roadkill deer before I voted for her), but is there any way we can hold the people promising to leave if Trump gets elected to it? A lot of them have made their promises via internet posts and YouTube videos so couldn't those be used in a breech of contract suit?

I got all excited when people promised they'd leave the US if Bush got elected/reelected but they're still here. I don't want to live through that disappointment again.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 30 (view)
Is it childish to block someone?
Posted: 6/18/2016 11:07:01 PM

Maybe I am simply unclear of the reason and workings of that feature. Or is it just par for the course for a great many Forum participants? What exactly does it accomplish and are there folks that don't have any need for it for whatever reason? I worry that I might be missing something.

Do you mean block or ban? Neither one is childish in and of itself, though a forum ban can be issued for childish reasons (ex. the moderator doesn't like the (completely legal) views of the banned individual, the mod has an axe to grind, etc.)

Blocking, on the other hand, is between users. It's actually more mature than reporting someone and is a feature sorely needed on the forums (I don't see any options to block and I don't know if blocking someone's profile will carry over to the forums). Going to a mod to get someone banned (or at least reprimanded) when simply hitting the block button would ensure you never hear from them again is basically the same as running to the babysitter and saying "I don't like what Alan said to me so he shouldn't be allowed to talk to anyone."

That's actually my biggest problem with Facebook, their ban on "hate speech," and their absurdly liberal (as in loose, not ideologically) definition of hate speech. One of your friends doesn't like the fact that you call a ****** a ****** (don't bother trying to figure out what was censored. I just hit * several times) so instead of cutting them off, blocking them so they never have to see their "hate speech" again, they go to the staff and have the offender cut off from all of their friends.

Use of the block feature, when available, is the least childish route. The only time you should take someone to an administrator is if they find a way to bypass the block.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 285 (view)
Would you cuddle if it NEVER lead to sex?
Posted: 6/14/2016 2:59:58 PM

Leaning up against someone during a movie, although toes on the platonic line -- isn't cuddling.

I guess we have different definitions or everyone in my area defines it too broadly. Where I come from everything from a child laying on his mother's lap while watching TV to sitting on the couch with your arm around someone to laying in bed with your limbs all tangled up with each others' (provided there's no penetration) is considered cuddling. Basically it's any contact that goes on longer than a hug and doesn't include sexual components such as necking or genital stimulation.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 283 (view)
Would you cuddle if it NEVER lead to sex?
Posted: 6/13/2016 4:05:19 PM

- Are straight guys going to be wanting/willing to sleep in your bed cuddling with you the whole night, and thinking it's platonic? No.
- Are you going to bet $1,000 that a serious GF isn't going to be upset if you spent the night in a female "friend"'s bed, cuddling the whole night? No.

Who said it had to be all night in bed? I wouldn't share a bed with a strictly platonic friend, but there's a world of difference between that and her leaning up against you during a movie.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 280 (view)
Would you cuddle if it NEVER lead to sex?
Posted: 6/9/2016 10:46:25 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I think non-sexual cuddling goes further with me than carnal relations.

Growing up I had some things working against me. Every winter my scalp would dry out, itch 24 hours a day no matter what kind of shampoo I used, my constant scratching caused numerous head lice checks throughout the year in addition to the two scheduled ones (I'm sure the unscheduled ones were to check me specifically but they did the entire elementary section of the school to keep from singling me out), and while I was always louse free, the nurse would always say "this is the worst case of dry scalp I've ever seen and that includes the last time I checked you."

Because of my constant scratching even the school nurse publicly announcing that no cases had been found in the entire school didn't dispel the rumor that I had lice. As a consequence coming in contact with me was the worst thing that could happen to a kid as far as they were concerned.

If the teacher had me pass out papers, or we had a teacher that put a stack on the first desk of each column to pass back, people would actually pay attention to where I touched the papers and go out of their way to avoid touching that spot. If I touched a spot they had to write on they would write as normal, then they would take a tissue out of their desk to wrap around the pencil lead while they broke it before going to the pencil sharpener (every one of the girls did it other than my cousin, who had the assurance of her aunt (my other cousin) who cut my hair that the scratching was caused by the same thing that caused her feet to constantly itch between the toes, but some of the guys did it as well).

My scalp issues ended in high school but the treatment didn't. Same thing with the papers and now the added risk of accidentally bumping into me in the hall between classes. When that happened a lot of girls would actually run to the bathroom as though they had an emergency and change into their gym clothes for the rest of the day. If they bumped into me in gym (coed classes with no gender segregation beyond the locker rooms) they would run to the locker room and change back into their "street clothes." They would rather go through the rest of the day stinking of sweat than to have the slightest contact with me.

If my cousin tapped me on the shoulder she was cut off until one of the girls supervised a thorough hand washing regimen. This continued on until graduation, where despite the tradition of going out in alphabetical order (which would have put me at the halfway point) they put me at the end. The kids who would have gone after me literally threatened to riot if they had to shake hands with someone who shook hands with me first.

Because of my experiences I've always equated physical touch with acceptance. That's why I loved family reunions, because my cousins, one of my sister-in-laws, my paternal aunt, and nieces would always hug me. My eldest niece use to climb up on chairs to get things off of the top shelf of her closet then hold on to my shoulder to step down. Most kids measure acceptance by whether or not they're allowed to play with the other kids or join in on their conversations. If someone put a hand on my shoulder or a cashier accidentally touched my hand while handing me change without freaking out that meant as much to me as an invitation to wrestle or go down to the swimming hole or sit around a bonfire and shoot the bull.

A woman willing to lie next to you for an undetermined period of time with her body pressed against yours is nothing to some guys, frustrating to others, but it means everything to me. You can go out and pay some random hooker for sex, but cuddling is something that's harder to get. It's more intimate, if you and a female friend are both single you can safely do it with them without all of the headaches of a friends with benefits setup, and as someone who was treated like a tuberculosis infected rabid leper for 13 of the first 18 years of his life even a friend who would never have a desire to date me using me as a pillow during a movie is like God himself giving me a warm hug.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 119 (view)
MEN What's up with the dick pics??!!
Posted: 6/9/2016 9:45:10 PM
This thread's still going? I actually got one of those on my phone the other day. I'm sure it was a wrong number because the only men who even have my cell phone number are my dad and one of my brothers. Or it could have been some punk just mass messaging random numbers hoping some women (or men) would reply.

I sent back a reply. I said "why are you women always sending me clit pictures?" I got back the obligatory "F U" (spelled out), replied with "with what?" and that was the last I heard from him.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 34 (view)
dating age range
Posted: 6/9/2016 9:28:16 PM
Get to know someone before you try to move to dating and disregard the age during that period as long as it's legal.

I've met women who were 25, ten years younger than me, who made me feel that dating them would be like getting dates on a kindergarten playground. Actually some of them made kindergarteners look like sophisticated adults by comparison. I've met 45 year old women, ten years older than me, who made me wonder if dating them wouldn't get me picked up for statutory. I've met women my age who would find a perfect match in a nursing home, some my age who would make the first group, the ones who made kindergarterners look sophisticated, look mature.

And I also know a woman who just turned 21, literally young enough to be my daughter (would have been in my early teens, but 14 year old dads weren't uncommon in my school. In fact, her birth mother is only a year older than me), and if she weren't already seeing someone she would be turning me down as we speak.

Age use to matter because everyone grew up around the same age, there were distinct life stages that everyone entered around the same age, etc. but now a lot of people don't even grow up at all. In 30 years we'll have 80 year olds who never mentally aged past 13. It really just depends on the individual as long as they're at or above the legal age in your jurisdiction.

I will mention that if raising kids is important to you and you don't want to be limited to a prefab family you should probably set a static upper age, as the biological clock is one of the few things that haven't changed in the past hundred years or so.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
I need some advice on a porch light.
Posted: 12/3/2015 9:38:04 PM
A little over a year ago I bought a trailer from my cousin's brother-in-law. My cousin bought it in the 90s, then when they moved he gave it to his wife's mother, and when she went to the nursing home it went on the market.

My cousin's wife was up here helping me get things set up and she told me that the kitchen porch light never worked. Didn't work from the day they bought it until the day her mother moved out. This weekend I plan on replacing it. It's not jut a matter of hooking it up because the existing socket is in bad shape. Every metal part is either rusted or corroded and it looks like moving the trailer knocked a dirt dauber nest out of the socket because the threads look like they're completely coated with dried mud. Fortunately Menard's has some in my price range.

The question I have is if porch lights are one of those "get what you pay for" things. Beyond the decorative aspects it seems pretty basic, just wires running to a light socket, and it seems to me that as far as the actual socket goes there wouldn't be much difference between a Patriot or a Meridian or a Seagull.

Also, is there anything I need to look out for as far as bulb types? I've always used strictly incandescent lights for outdoors. I did before moving into the trailer and it's all I use in the porch light that still functions because I know you can safely use incandescent lights as porch lights. Compact fluorescent and LEDs I'm not so sure about. Unfortunately incandescents are getting increasingly difficult to come by. Do I need to plan for the changeover to LED when picking out a fixture or is that determined more by the actual bulb?
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 26 (view)
CONVERSATE is not a word
Posted: 12/3/2015 9:02:52 PM

Sorry I do not care what the dictionary on lines say. Conversate is not a word.

Wait... it's actually in the dictionary? I'll admit I use it from time to time, but only to rile up a flatlander friend of mine who's always making fun of me for living in "hillbilly country" (along with other words I know don't exist, ex. "I just done some arithmaticin' and I figure ol' Luke and I walked over 1600 rods after his engine blowed up. Gave us time to catch up on some conversatin', though").

The difference is, I use it knowing it's not a real word with the intent of annoying a friend. I didn't know anyone seriously thought it was an actual word.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 62 (view)
MEN What's up with the dick pics??!!
Posted: 12/2/2015 8:58:44 PM

Then I even had a man send me a video of him pleasuring himself! Oh yeah all the way to the, pardon the pun, the bitter end! Why??

I assume it's the same reason a woman will send unsolicited nude pics before you even know what their voice sounds like. Women have it relatively easy, though. For the most part when they react negatively to lewd pics from a man she might get a few distasteful messages in reply, but guys tend to move on. Women, however, tend to be under the impression that guys are always looking for sex and will grab any chance at it.

I've had two women send me nude pictures just as soon as they had the opportunity. The first one I exchanged messages with through PoF's mail system, we added each other to Facebook, and the very first message she sent was full frontal nudity. When she pressed me for a reply I told her I didn't think things were going to work out. She took to Facebook, before I unfriended her, to "name and shame" me by saying that I was shallow and cut ties with her because I didn't like her body. In a small community like where I live a lot of people are connected, so I had to clear up a lot of stuff with a few of my coworkers over the next few days.

The next one texted me a pic just as soon as we exchanged numbers. I won't go into detail, but usually the only way to see a shot like that online will end up putting a virus on your computer. When I told her to delete my number she told everyone who would listen that I was just looking for a beard. Again, it's a small community with enough overlap between her and the people I know that a rumor that would be inconsequential in New York or even St. Louis had me working to convince a fair number of people that I'm into women, just not women of loose morals.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 217 (view)
Would you cuddle if it NEVER lead to sex?
Posted: 11/8/2015 12:49:55 PM
It could be a bit of an issue if it's strictly platonic. When you do start dating someone I highly doubt they're going to feel comfortable with you having a female friend that you cuddle with, no matter how much you both insist that it will never go beyond platonic. It would eventually lead to a "break up" of sorts with your friend.

That being said, the older I get the less optimistic I am about my prospects, so I wouldn't rule it out completely. There are a lot of benefits associated with physical contact, which I don't get much of. Wrestling matches with my nephew when I see him every few months, on Fridays the CEO will go around the bank and shake hands with everyone, and the VP will go around high fiving everyone. That's about the extent of my non-combative physical contact.

So if a good friend of mine came over to watch a movie and she used me as a pillow I wouldn't ask her to get up. It certainly wouldn't lead to anything, because neither of us are into the whole "friends with benefits" thing and we'd never start dating because we're great friends, but if we ended up as a couple we'd probably end up hating each other.

But on the day that the gates of Hell open to reveal a vast ice field and winged pigs start flying out of said gate it will mean that I might have a very slight chance of meeting someone. People tend to be so jealous that my friend and I wouldn't be able to have movie nights with her unless her boyfriend and my girlfriend were also in the living room, and we certainly wouldn't be able to sit on the couch with her leaning up against me so we get back to the problem of either being perceived as a cheater or having to more or less "break up" with my friend. Or break up with my girlfriend, if she sees her as enough of a threat that she won't even allow me to talk to my friend.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
What can anyone tell me about polyamory?
Posted: 10/25/2015 11:31:37 PM
Recently a friend said she'd like to try a polyamorous relationship. Now logistically I don't see how this would work, since if we're not hard wired for monogamy then we've at least had it drilled into us from an early age, so I don't see how she would find two guys willing to share her or a couple that would bring her in or whatever setup she has pictured (we're not close friends, just talking for a few minutes a day, so I don't know if she's imagining two guys, a guy and a girl, or two girls, or even some commune type situation consisting of several people).

I've known a few people with experience with polyamory, even almost dated one, but I never asked them how they ended up in that situation (though it's become a matter of curiosity for me, so I kind of wish I was still in touch with at least one of them). I do know, however, that all I heard regarding it were horror stories.

Someone feeling ignored when two people in the relationship or whatever you want to call it started spending more time together than they did with the third, one involved developing a sudden streak of jealousy and wanting to cut it down to a monogamous couple, one, two, or all three feeling guilty about the arrangement so it fell apart, etc.

She's shrugged these stories off as "anecdotal evidence" but she strikes me as the analytical type so I'm wondering if there's any hard and fast data. Like I said, she's not a close friend but she's still a friend, and if she were a perfect stranger I'd be wondering why she was telling me that, but mostly I'd just say an unenthusiastic "good luck." However, I haven't seen any instances where no one got hurt (no one as in none involved made it through unscathed) both through personally talking through people who have been through it and through reading countless blog posts, articles, etc. on it, and I don't really want to see her get hurt.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 51 (view)
Who else finds pregnant women sexy
Posted: 10/22/2015 10:03:29 PM
That's actually a pretty common paraphilia among men. It's common enough, actually, that there's debate about whether or not it should be considered a paraphilia.

I suspect it goes back to the days when men were in open competition to propagate their bloodline (men are still in competition with each other, but for some odd reason propagation of bloodlines is becoming a far less common desire these days). The sight of a pregnant woman would trigger that competitive drive, but instead of hitting on a woman carrying another man's child they'd direct it toward their mates (for lack of a better term, as it is unknown for certain whether marriage, or even monogamy existed during the paleolithic era).

We've had it throttled into us not to act on our nature, but that doesn't mean our nature has completely changed since that era. We've degenerated as a species to the point where sex went from procreational with benefits to recreational with often panic inducing consequences so it no longer seems to matter that women, for the most part (barring individual oddities in the reproductive system), are incapable of conceiving another child while pregnant. With that ingrained in us instead of going into a hut with your wife to try to outbreed, or at least keep up with your neighbor men tend to go straight for the woman who initiated the arousal in them when socially acceptable (i.e. she's known to be single or known to be in an "open relationship")

Of course, the specifics given are just a theory, but even if my theory's wrong there's bound to be some primal link between a man's attraction to pregnant women and propagation of the species.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 12 (view)
Men and sex+protection
Posted: 10/14/2015 7:47:25 PM

The pill combined with condoms (which are for more than birthcontrol, but you already know that) is pretty good.

Pretty good, but not foolproof. My parents never had "the talk" with me, leaving that up to sex ed in school, but the closest thing we ever had was when I, at the age of 21, started dating my first girlfriend. My dad said "don't be bringing any babies around for us to raise. I've already raised mine, I ain't about to raise someone else's. And don't think birth control will be enough. If the pill and the condom worked you and two of your brothers wouldn't be here now."

So during that talk I found out that I was born despite the use of both the pill and a condom. Just goes to show you can't trust anything relating to pregnancy prevention.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
I spent a few months working as a dry cleaner.
Posted: 10/14/2015 7:27:06 PM
This elderly nun came in with an old faded habit. She said she had it since the 1950s, it was the first one she ever had, and it would mean a lot to her if I could restore it.

So I took it back behind the counter, dyed it the purest black I had, and when she came back to pick it up I handed it to her. She started crying and saying that I was the worst dry cleaner she ever saw.

I asked her what the problem was. She tapped the habit against the counter, it made a loud knocking sound, and she said "look at it! It's stiff as a board!"

I took it from her, looked it over, and said "I don't see why you're so surprised. Everyone knows old habits dye hard."
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 52 (view)
adult breast feeding relationships
Posted: 10/14/2015 7:02:27 PM
I'll admit I've wondered about it a time or two strictly from a curiosity standpoint. I was bottle fed so I've always wondered what breast milk tastes like.

It just seems kind of creepy to me, though. Back when I worked at a McDonald's there was a three month stretch where I was the only guy there from 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM. They forgot the fact that it was still mixed company, so I learned more about pregnancy, childbirth, and lactation than a man who had never had a pregnant wife and wasn't studying to go into obstetrics probably should know.

The unanimous consensus was that lactation was a headache. Based on that admittedly small sample I can't see many women inducing lactation, unless they do it as some weird breast enlargement scheme, and to many women it just seems to be something they have to put up with, so it seems a lot of women would only go through that if there's a child involved.

Since most people view it as sexual when a woman suckles an adult it would feel wrong to me to do that with something that, at that time, is a child's primary means of survival. It would be like sexualizing a bottle.

I guess strictly from a curiosity standpoint pumping or hand expression would suffice, but it's a moot point anyway. These days the only women who take an interest in me have had all of their kids and don't want any more, or they're dead set on ever having kids to begin with. With women more or less telling me that I can have a marginal role in helping to raise their ex's kid(s) but I'll never have any of my own with them I doubt I'll ever have a relationship intimate enough with a woman who could help satisfy that curiosity.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 38 (view)
best joke of the week
Posted: 8/12/2015 7:31:23 PM
Marcus Pinkus, a tailor of questionable reputation, sold a couple of nuns some new habits. They said "it's very important that they're black. Very dark grey or navy won't work." Marcus assured them that they were the purest black they would find.

They were talking on the way back to the convent. They saw a rabbi and one of them said "rabbis wear black. Follow my lead and we can check our habits." One of them asked him if he had the time. When he brought up his arm to check his watch they discretely held their arms next to his. They looked at each other, shouted something, and ran off.

About that time the rabbi's friend came along and said "what was all that about?" The rabbi said "something important must be going on in their church. They asked me for the time, then gave me a blessing in Latin that was the most exuberant one I've ever heard before running off."

"Really? What was the blessing?" The rabbi said "Marcus Pinkus Fuctus."
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
Medical Monkeyshines
Posted: 8/12/2015 7:07:46 PM
A buddy of mine spent about half a day working at a pharmacy. His boss came back from lunch and on his way in noticed a man leaning up against the wall sweating profusely.

He asked what was going on with that guy out there. My buddy said "he came in for cough medicine but we were out so I gave him a box of laxatives." His boss said "laxatives? What good will laxatives do for a cough?"

My buddy said "well, he hasn't coughed in nearly an hour. He's too afraid to."
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 12 (view)
.... okay maybe not funny to anyone else
Posted: 8/12/2015 7:00:31 PM
There use to be a prominent link to the forums on the main site. I think it was located between "UPGRADE" and "LOG OUT." I have no idea why they removed the link. I thought that meant they got rid of it altogether, then just for kicks I googled it and found out that it's still here.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
Dunn and Associates
Posted: 8/12/2015 6:57:00 PM
I've lived my entire life in this little speed bump of a town. There was a little old lady here, I don't know exactly how old she was, but she use to talk about listening to Frank James (yes, that Frank James) play the piano in her aunt's house as a little girl.

Well she must have thought that St. Louis was about the size of our little settlement, because when she heard that my buddy was going out there for the weekend she took him aside and said "my son moved there a while back. If you see him can you tell him that I miss him and want to hear from him?"

While he was driving through St. Louis he came across a building that said "Dunn and Associates" on it. He said to himself "that must be where ol' John works." He went in and said to the receptionist "y'all got a John in here?" She told him to go down the hall, first door on the left.

Her directions led him to the men's room. There was a guy in a suit coming out. My buddy said "are you Dunn?" The guy looked at him suspiciously for a moment, then said "I guess I am..." Without missing a beat my buddy said "good. Your mama wants you to write her a letter."
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 23 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/30/2015 4:27:19 PM

One small thing which you can do to decrease their hostility without their realizing that you are doing it, is to do your best to carefully copy their dress code styles. If the men there all wear suits, then wear a suit. If they wear ties, then wear a tie. Choose colors which match theirs as well.

In the same way, take note of the speaking style of the people there. Some businesses behave like libraries, where everyone speaks in hushed tones all the time, and someone who is naturally more boisterous can appear to be disruptive, even as they are being friendly to try to allay the others' discomfort. In the same way, if everyone tends to be bubbly, and the New Guy is reserved and quiet, they can become wary and suspicious of his intentions.

In particular, since you are performing a job designed to allow the bank to fire other people (automation of records), it may be even more important to silently signal that you are "on their side," by how you dress and speak.

Way ahead of you on the dress code thing. In fact, my mom insisted on driving me to the interview solely so she could drag me off to Ross' and Target to try on clothes for the next few hours, and everything she picked out was what she saw other guys, including the higher-ups, wearing. In fact, I inadvertently dressed exactly like the CEO of the bank on my first day there. After he jokingly said he was sorry that I had to look like my brother (whom he knows) he jokingly accused me of trying to replace him because we had the exact same shirt and pants.

Speaking style is a mixed bag. My mom, the guys working under the credit analyst, the credit analyst, the department head's second in command, and I are all pretty reserved. In fact, I didn't realize the credit analyst had gone on maternity leave until the department head mentioned it because you really never even know she's there. Everyone else there, including the CEO and one of the VPs, is pretty rambunctious. One of the VPs even does "high five Friday" where he'll go around the bank giving everyone high fives.

Other than a couple of new hires who went in knowing it was a temporary gig (both directly hired after me after the bank had a falling out with my temp agency), the only job this will eliminate is my mother's, and she's fine with that. She actually retired five years ago but the department head talked her into going back to work part time two months later. While I'm dreading it because I'll be back to sending out resumes, filling out applications, and trying to make a go of what became side jobs last month, she's actually looking forward to this project ending because she can go back into full retirement. Everyone who was there before I was will keep their jobs and it will actually be easier on them, because instead of having to pull files from a shelf, dig through them to find the relevant items, and go all the way back down to loan services to place the files back on the shelf all they'll have to do is type a name into the computer, click a link, and they'll be looking at the document they need faster than they could even get to the staircase.

So other than three disposable temp workers (including myself, all of us knowing when we went in that we were disposable) and a woman who wanted to retire years ago this won't cost anyone their job. They have no grounds for animosity on that issue.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 18 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/16/2015 4:39:55 AM

What I find really odd (I've mentioned this above already though) is that what you describe, which is typically thought of as a female-environment issue, is what I've found within male environments instead. In the extreme - really really bad, truly like little children. And male environments which you'd think are "masculine" as well as honest and sensible. And I've rarely found it in female-environments, though that may just be because I'm male.

Other than a two month period at McDonald's when I was the only man on my shift from 11:00 - 4:00 (otherwise the rest of my two years there was an even mix) and this job I've worked in almost exclusively male environments. Every once in a while there would be a guy who tried to get me out of there so he could create an opening for a buddy of his, but otherwise as long as I did my job they left me alone.

This time around it's nearly all women. I'm the only man in the department and there are only three men, myself included, on the entire floor. Now I do my job pretty well according to my supervisor. Now that I don't have to dig through bar code sheets my output has more than tripled, and while I'm falling short of my personal goals, I've been told that my output is actually pretty good.

Yet this is the first time in my life I have actually had to worry about my job for reasons other than job performance. I've had to mitigate sabotage (stolen spark plugs, etc.) to keep doing my job while a guy was trying to get me out of there so he could get his buddy a job there, but as I said, if he would have been successful it only would have been because he prevented me from doing my job effectively. This time around I'm actually worried that I may lose a job because, job performance aside, these people just don't want me there.

Yesterday I happened to catch one of the women talking to our supervisor. I had a document scanning and I couldn't hear her over the scanner, but when I was reaching for the next document I saw her and the supervisor looking at me. When the scanner shut off I heard her say "I don't know if he's still doing it, but I just thought I'd give you a heads up." No idea what she was saying, but since I've just been staying in my office and doing my job it almost has to be a fabrication.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 15 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/13/2015 7:21:26 AM sounds like you don't have stress from dealing with people, but instead stress from dealing with bad people.

It's people in general. Even the ones I get along with. The one who announces when I'm leaving my office with the hermit joke is practically family. We have a couple of cousins in common, my cousin's first husband up until his death was her uncle, and she still even has lunch with my cousin sometimes. She said she still considers her an aunt even though it was through a marriage that ended through the death of her husband. Even though she never had any blood or legal ties to my immediate family she treats my mom like an aunt, started showing up at family reunions when they started working together, and she treats me the way the rest of my cousins treat me. If we meet outside of work she even gives me a hug.

Yet when she says more than "good morning" at work when we're not on break it's a distraction. I tend to get single minded when I'm working. The only reason I talked to anyone in general is because I was told it would be important to getting a permanent position at the bank. Now that I've given up that delusion social interaction is just an unnecessary headache.

And...Rush Limbaugh? Nooo!

Yup. Rush Limbaugh during lunch, Sean Hannity on the way home, and Mark Levin at home if there's nothing on TV.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 13 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/12/2015 5:18:54 PM

I remember you posting a while back about self-employment...did this not pan out well?

My efforts at self employment were an act of desperation because after four years of putting in applications all I was doing was wasting time and gas. I figured I could take what I would spend in gas, buy some equipment, take the time I would have spent on fruitless applications and interviews, and apply it to something to generate revenue. If I wanted to I could still get something going, especially now that I have seed money, and I still have numerous projects simmering on the back burners for when this job plays out, but getting this job took away the need for self employment.

I have everything worked out, anyway. When I started I was spending my days putting bar codes on documents (used to tell which employee scanned the document, which directory it scans into, and the type of file being scanned). For each customer I would have to print out a new bar code, sometimes multiple ones if I had to scan anything associated with loans, and if my job was at the end of a list of large jobs I would strike up a conversation with whoever was waiting to get their documents.

Once I had all of the bar codes in place I would take it across the building to a copier/scanner/printer (though the printer isn't on the network so it doesn't get any use as one) and if I got behind a line of people making copies I'd strike up conversations with them, as well.

Wednesday the other scanning clerk and I got desktop scanners. Now I don't need to print out bar codes so no trips to the printer and it scans directly into my work computer so no going across the building. In fact, the way it's set up I don't even have to leave my office except for the rare cases when I don't know how to categorize a document, for breaks, when I underestimate how many files would last the entire day and I need to get some more to scan, and to go home.

The only empty computer they had when I started was in an office (some of the women in loan services are jealous because they've been wanting to move out of their cubicle. I'll tell them if they can arrange it with our supervisor I'll trade them, as being against an exterior wall hearing every car drive by is a distraction, but they assume I'm joking) so now that's where I spend nearly my entire day.

The loan services women even started a ritual around it. When one sees me leaving for my lunch break (which is a random time every day since the ones who don't have to man the phones or deal with customers are given more flexibility and I hate leaving files half finished) she'll say "the hermit is coming out of his hole. No one make any sudden moves or you might spook him back in." Then the rest of the department will ooh and ahh as though they're witnessing a rare event like Bigfoot riding the Loch Ness monster. Some of the women will even disregard continuity to crack jokes like "I heard when he went in there everyone was still getting around on horseback. I hope he can handle himself around cars" or "I hear there's an entire civilization living in that hole there. He's just the only one willing to interact with outsiders." I told my mom, who works there two and a half days (but missed the half day this week), about it and now she's coming up with jokes that she can add to it on her days there.

But yeah, that pretty much solves the problem. Unlock my office, grab a large stack of the thickest files in the file room, and only come out for breaks and questions. When I take my morning caffeine break I just read the paper and at lunch I just sit in my truck and listen to Rush Limbaugh for half an hour (or Sean Hannity on the rare days I take lunch after 2:00). In fact, if I were to go in on a Sunday or a bank holiday, assuming someone was there to unlock the employee entrance, the only thing that would be different from the arrangement I've had for the last half week is that I would have to just set aside documents I don't know how to categorize until the next business day.

To be honest, it's a great arrangement for everyone. I've worked in isolation for the last two years (longer than that, actually, but it was two years ago when I gave up on the work force to try to start my own business) minus going to my parents' house or chatting with my sister-in-law when she put me to work around her store. It's what I'm use to, and the job is a lot easier when I don't have to worry about the stress of dealing with people.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 10 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/7/2015 2:18:57 PM

If you worked on this during your normal hours, the bank owns it.

Strictly after hours. I take mental notes when I run into an issue with the software, but all of the actual design and development takes place after hours on my own privately owned computer.

Intellectual property clauses can also apply to anything made at any time during your tenure there, whether in the office during work hours, on your laptop during lunch, or at home on a computer that the company has no say over, but to the best of my knowledge neither my temp agency (who is officially my employer) nor the bank have IP clauses so I'm in the clear.

Really you only run into stuff like that with bona-fide programming jobs. Software engineers have to worry about that more than scanning clerks would.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 170 (view)
Have You or would You consider Dating a Crossdresser
Posted: 6/6/2015 11:08:49 PM

How about the other way around. A girl that likes wearing men's boxers... Or army boots.

I'm not sure about the boxer shorts, but women wear men's clothing all the time. I'm not talking about stuff that until relatively recently was considered men's clothing, such as jeans and t-shirts, but clothing they actually got from the men's department of Walmart or Target.

My ex girlfriend (the second one, actually) openly admitted that her pants were from the men's department because they fit better. When I was talking to my mom about that she said that other than her church/work pants she gets a lot of hers from the men's department. I've even seen her wear some of my jeans that I've outgrown years ago to go shopping in, and Thursday when she picked me up from work (truck was in the shop) she was wearing my favorite t-shirt that I had to give up when I outgrew it at the age of 13.

I figured it was a "wife and mother" thing. Her husband and sons had clothing that fit her so she saved money by recycling them. Then I got to asking around. Single women, women with husbands whose clothing would either be tents on them or require extensive liposuction for them to fit into, and women with toddlers all freely admit to buying their clothing in the men's department of department stores. They say the pants fit better and a lot of the time they find a t-shirt design that's only available in men's styles so they buy them. These days there really is no men's clothing. There's women's and there's gender neutral.

As far as the cross dressing thing goes, my first girlfriend always wanted me to dress in drag. She said she thought it was cute when men dressed as women as long as they made an effort to look like women. She wanted me to wear nothing but women's clothing around my house when she was there, around her house, when we went on dates, and just running to the store for a jug of milk. I had enough of it so I finally came up with a way to get her to change her mind.

Now one thing you need to know about me is that I only get embarrassed around people I know. I won't even stick my head out the front door to check the temperature unless I'm fully dressed in case someone I know drives by, but I'll go streaking through New York City without a second thought. I arranged a little weekend getaway in northern Arkansas, told her she'd only need clothing for Saturday and Sunday, but to pack two outfits for each day along with an extra one, then when we got there Friday night I finally got her off my case. I put on one of her bras, decided to go all out and stuff the cups, put on her dress, and even though it was a little too big for me she started gushing over how cute it was on me. Then she did my makeup and we went out to dinner.

Like I said, I only get embarrassed around people I know so nothing bothered me that night. At first she thought it was cute, but by the time we got back to the motel she was utterly embarrassed because of the stares and comments we were getting. As soon as we stepped into the room she started wiping off my makeup, told me to take off her clothes, and handed me my night clothes (couldn't actually call them pajamas because they were just a t-shirt and cotton shorts). For the rest of the weekend I dressed normally, and for the three years we were together after that she never once mentioned cross dressing again.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 5 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/6/2015 10:14:41 PM

Since I've never worked in HR I don't know if you should leave it alone and keep your head to the grind stone, or if you should ask HR why this has happened. Hopefully others here will be helpful. It's never good to have a supervisor talk to you about your supposed harassment.

I'm just leaving it alone for now. I don't think they went to HR, since in my capacity as a temp I'm not officially an employee there. I think they went to my supervisor. The only two interactions I've had with the head of HR were in the interview and when she was on my floor for other reasons and stopped by to ask how things were going.

Because of a similar situation at McDonald's (there was a female coworker I thought I was getting along pretty well with, she seemed to take my offer of a ride home when her dad couldn't pick her up as something more than "we get off at the same time and I drive by your place so I can drop you off," and threatened harassment charges) I actually keep a mental log of every communication I have in the workplace.

I reminded her that all of my prior jobs have been in fast food, groundskeeping, etc. where perfectly normal conversation there is considered offensive here, then under the guise of trying to acclimate to the "new culture" I related my conversations to her ad nauseum to find out what was acceptable and what wasn't. She found nothing objectionable about what I related to her, then when I asked what I said so I could avoid it in the future she said she "didn't know the specifics, just that some of my girls (what she calls loan services as every last employee in that department is female) have told me that you keep flirting with the tellers in the break room and I don't think it's appropriate in this environment."

I don't know what she took away from the conversation. It was a complaint from within the department that I was "flirting" with the tellers, so obviously the tellers didn't think it was flirting or the complaint would have come from one of them or from their supervisor to my supervisor. Whether she realizes it was a misunderstanding (at best, malicious slander to try to get me out of there at worst) or she thinks I'm some kind of predator is still up in the air.

If I do start conversing with my coworkers again and there are more accusations I'm going to ask for specific details, and when she admits that I didn't say anything salacious (which she will have to if she was given the accurate contents of the conversation, otherwise she's left with a "she said he said" situation that won't really hold up) I will remind her that my brother, whom she knows well, and his first wife, whom was one of "her girls," met while they were working there, dated while they were working there, married while they were working there, the fact that her termination came a few years after my brother had already left for another job, the credit analyst who is married to and carrying the child of a loan officer, the teller who goes out to lunch every day with a financial planner to plan their wedding (and the fact that the CEO often asks one or both of them about their upcoming wedding), and the two tellers shacking up together all indicate that workplace dating isn't prohibited there.

Then I will ask her why she's placing a restriction on me that isn't placed on anyone else in the bank.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 3 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/6/2015 9:32:27 PM

Be wary of giving up your free time, because for this kind of work it shouldn't be necessary. It can even look like you are struggling to do the work efficiently if you're not careful.

Never thought of it from that angle. I don't make a big show of it. I just start when I get there, which is 10 minutes early on the days I ride in with my mom and 5 minutes early when I drive myself. Most of the time I just get so caught up that I don't even pay attention to the time. Mondays and Tuesdays my mom actually has to come in and remind me that it's lunch time, otherwise I'd have my nose buried in the file I'm working on. Wednesday through Friday, since my mom is semi-retired, leaves early on Wednesdays, and doesn't work Thursdays and Fridays, one of the women in the department has to keep an eye on me. Several times she's had to come in around 2:00 to remind me that I need to go to lunch.

It's not showing off or anything. I don't like to stop work in the middle of a file but if I get a particularly thick one (with a main folder a few inches thick and an overflow folder or two as thick as an unabridged copy of Les Miserables) it can take me nearly all day to finish it.

It's the same thing with the end of the day. I'll just be working, the lady (other than a credit analyst and a loan officer every single employee on my floor is female) who works Saturday that week to help out bookkeeping leaves an hour early to avoid overtime, and I'll hear her wrap up her 5 - 10 minute post-work visit with "I'll see you tomorrow" or "have a good weekend" and that's when I'll realize I haven't been paying attention to the time. Then I just log out and fill out my time sheet for the day.

If you feel like you really have to put in overtime, you can always use it to develop some ideas or reports that might help improve things instead of reducing the time until you're looking for more work.

I actually have been working on something to improve things. Without going into any detail the software we use, other than the Microsoft Office suite, is garbage. Even the GUI exists server-side so something as simple as a button click adds to the server load. With pretty much everyone in loan services, the loan officers, credit analysts, tellers, and no telling how many other employees in six branches that I know of using it those GUI signals add up, and a lot of the stuff that it's used for can be cached to the local machines to speed things up.

I'm working on a solution and the first business day after my assignment there ends I'm going to the central office with it. If this job becomes permanent I can just keep it in my vest, maybe retool it to make it something I could sell online that would be useful to business other than banks. It will keep all of the advantages of having the entire program exist as a scripted web page while reducing the load on the server (leading to faster operation) and will hopefully be more secure.

It could lead to a direct hire as a permanent employee in another department (though with a longer commute, 60 miles at 1h 4 min one way vs. 12 miles at 15 minutes currently) and if they reject it there's no shortage of banks that can use it. Failing that it can be tweaked to suit nearly any type of business.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
How important are interpersonal relationships in an office environment?
Posted: 6/6/2015 7:45:57 PM
I recently started work at a bank as a scanning clerk. The bank's going paperless, they need people to go through files, sort out the documents the loan officers want to keep, and scan them into the system. It's not the most important job there but it's the easiest and the highest paying job I've ever had. It's also a bit of a culture shock as office workers seem to be an entirely separate culture from the construction workers, landscapers, and burger flippers I'm use to working with.

Working as a burger flipper or as a greens-keeper at a golf course or as a groundskeeper at a resort you didn't really have to have much of a relationship with your coworkers. It was all about job performance. If you did your job well and didn't have much to do with your colleagues you weren't at risk. If you did your job well and your colleagues hated you you'd still be eligible for raises and, if it was a job that actually had advancement, promotions. If you did your job well and your colleagues loved you that was just a bonus.

Currently I'm a temp. The only one there, actually, as the other one hired through that agency quit and the way it was handled by the agency caused them to go back to direct hire. When I started my mother, whom I work with now, told me that there was potential for me to become a permanent hire but it would depend as much on how I got along with everyone else as it would my job performance.

Keeping that in mind I set out to work, doing my job and during my breaks trying to get to know the others. Everyone has always been polite but their body language always seemed to say "come in, do your job, keep your mouth shut, and go home."

I've received a stern warning from my supervisor about flirting with coworkers, not in a "by the way, since your brother and his first wife started dating while working in this very building I'm not going to say employees can't date, but I don't think it's appropriate" way, but in a "don't let it happen again" way even though my "flirting" consisted of saying hi back to people who said it first, answering questions ("what's your name?" "How long have you worked here?" "What do you do here?" "Do you like it here?"), asking them the exact same questions they asked me if they didn't follow up my answer with that information, and literally just talking about the weather ("they said it wasn't supposed to rain until Wednesday but the way it's clouding up I'm not so sure.")

After that very stern warning about my "flirting" I decided to forget about the interpersonal stuff, limit my non-work related conversations to responding when someone says "hi," and now my entire world is contained in and on a desk and as far as my coworkers can tell I don't even exist until I have to run out to grab something off the printer, scan some documents, or get some more files to work on. I walk by my mother's desk several times a day and I don't even say anything to her unless it's to ask what category a file needs to be scanned under or to get my time sheet for the upcoming week from the overhead compartment above her desk.

Now for the time being I've given up any delusion of becoming a permanent employee at that bank. Right now I'm just trying to make sure my 4 - 7 month assignment at that place doesn't end after less than a month and a half. But I'd also like to think that, despite receiving a warning in my first month (not sure if it was off the record or if it was recorded with the temp agency), there's a chance to turn this around.

How likely is that now that I've given up on any sort of interpersonal relationships with my coworkers? I've done everything I can to showcase my work ethic. I made up hours that neither my budget nor my supervisor required (at 32 hours that week I had still exceeded a week's wages from my previous job and it was made clear to me that it was strictly optional, as it was a holiday and not a sick day that caused me to be short hours, yet I worked four 9 hour days followed by half a Saturday).

While two weeks in I did start taking a morning break to get some caffeine in me, I only take 5 minutes of my 15 minute morning break, I'm one of only three people in the entire bank who takes a half hour lunch instead of the standard hour, and while we get a 15 minute break in the afternoon, I'm the only one in at least my department who usually doesn't take it. The rare times I do take it is when I can't wait until the end of the day to get to a restroom. The thing is, restroom breaks are considered separate from the 15 minute morning/afternoon breaks.

I start work right when I get there instead of messing around until 7:30 and I do so for free (mostly because I keep my own time and where the bank keeps track of hours down to the minute, my temp agency rounds to the nearest quarter hour), I often leave at 4:05, I often return from lunch 5 - 10 minutes early, and because of the aforementioned peculiarities with the agency's time keeping all of that adds up to nearly 8 1/2 hours on 8 hours' pay, voluntarily.

And I don't work completely isolated. I don't really chat anymore like I did at the beginning, but I do try to do something nice for everyone when I can. If I have something queued to print I'll take a look at the job status screen on the printer and run the printouts to whoever ran them instead of just grabbing my stuff and leaving everyone to sort through the jumble. I help troubleshoot computer issues to the extent that I can without admin level privileges. Just small stuff like that.

Now given all I do in terms of job performance, giving up to 2 1/2 hours per week for free, taking the shortest allowed lunch break, only taking 5 out of the 30 total minutes that we're allowed to goof off and still be on the clock, and still getting in my 40 hours when given the option to only work 32, will all of this be enough to make up for the fact that I started out apparently as an annoyance (someone had to complain if I got a warning, as if my supervisor would have seen what led to the complaint she would have known I was only answering questions and the most personal one I asked was one that I had just been asked seconds earlier) and have become someone who's "just there," other than that not really having a presence?

Or is all of the interpersonal garbage as important as the job performance? If it's just job performance I don't have anything to worry about, but if it requires having a good relationship with my coworkers I'm going to have to get something lined up for the end of the years.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 1 (view)
Is it possible to actually get rid of "bigotry?"
Posted: 2/19/2015 10:00:59 AM
Now I put bigotry in quotes because it's so overused that the word has lost all meaning. For instance, a guy, in all seriousness, accused me of being a "bigot" because when asked I told him that I would never consider experimenting with a man. I've endured tons of accusations of racism, which is a form of bigotry, early in the Obama administration either because I didn't vote for him or I disagree with his policies, these people intentionally disregarding the fact that I would disagree with the same policies being pushed by a white guy. So all in all when someone accuses me of bigotry I just suppress a chuckle and go on about my business.

However, lately there has been quite a bit of social engineering going on. Mozilla canned their CEO because it came out that he donated his own money on his own time in support of proposition 8 in California. A bakery may have to pay an absurdly huge punitive, not compensatory, award for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Lives are actually being ruined not because of any threat these people pose, but because the wrong people are offended by their opinions.

But what does it really accomplish? People will still have the same opinions no matter how much coercion they face. If anything it's going to make it worse. We'll end up in a state of malicious compliance, those who oppose homosexuality will become more belligerent, people will start acting out either socially (finding loopholes to keep them out of court when they otherwise couldn't have cared less who patronized their business) or physically (going back to the days when being gay in general society was as dangerous as being an ex cop in prison sentenced for child molestation (the two types of people with the shortest life expectancy in prison)), basically this could start a civil war of sorts.

And it's still going to be in the home. My niece, even though as a beautician she works with several gay men and a few lesbians, will use quotes when referring to a gay man or lesbian's spouse because she doesn't recognize a marriage between two men or two women. That's because my brother doesn't recognize it, because my parents wouldn't have recognized it had it become an issue in their day, because their parents wouldn't have recognized it, etc. I can almost guarantee that her children will be writing "David Hyde Pierce and his 'husband'" on whatever their generation's big social networking site is.

It's like racism. It's supposed to have been a rotting corpse for the past several years but it's still being kept alive in homes. Today making a racist joke, whether it's about blacks, Mexicans, Italians, the Polish, the Irish, or any of those ethnic joke books you could get in the 70s and 80s (fun fact, if you change the ethnic names to your friends' names or the country's name to a local name most of them will still work with some alterations, such as "I just heard [insert rival town] ordered 30 septic tanks and as soon as they learn how to drive them they're going to secede from the US and annex [insert nearby town]" instead of the setup being Poland and the punchline being "invade Germany," as very few make sense solely in an ethnic context. That's why I still read my dad's old Mexican, Italian, and Polish joke books and the reason he bought them in the first place) in a social setting is as unthinkable as a doctor, strictly as a joke with no hint of truth, telling a new mother that her child just died.

But one of my cousins, who pins his racism on the fact that a black inmate killed his paternal grandfather, who worked as a prison guard, is raising a five year old son every bit as racist as I imagine my confederate great-great-grandfather, who was reportedly still fighting the civil war when he died in 1928 at the age of 83, to have been. I run into them from time to time at the gas station down the road from my house and I asked him how he was getting along in school. He said "The other kids don't like me and I don't like them. They're a bunch of n----r lovers. They got mad when I said 'they should kick all the n----rs out of school." Now my aunts, uncles, mother, and I, all of whom take more after my grandmother's Union side of the family than my grandpa's confederate side, had many conversations with my cousin and his brother from the age of 10 until they stopped coming around at the age of 26 or so. No one was able to get through to them and it's highly unlikely that anyone will be able to get through to their children, who will most likely pass it down to their children, who will pass it down to their children.

Anyway, is it really wise to force the bigots underground? People have died over their sexual orientation. There's no denying that. Now Matthew Shepherd, who's constantly held up as a martyr, is believed by some to have died over a drug deal gone bad, but there's no denying that people have died solely because of their orientation and men have been killed for dressing and acting like women.

The way I see it, open hostility is a warning sign. My brother has a dog who growls and barks at me every time I go to his house. Because of that I know that if I were to try to pet him I'd get bitten. If a man is saying "I think we'd be better off without f----ts" that's a sign that if a gay man's around him they're rolling the dice. If the current trend continues he may be silenced, which will make it incredibly surprising when, after not expressing any strong feelings, he follows a man he just found out is gay to his house and beats or even kills him. It still happens and I say let the dogs bark so people know to stay away from them.

As for the legal issues, petitioning the courts is all well and good, but hauling people to court with the sole intent of financially ruining them kind of makes the LGB community look hypocritical. They've been decrying the evils of oppression since time immemorial and now they're becoming the oppressors. It wasn't enough for one couple that the judge ruled that the bakery had to accommodate gay and lesbian couples. They had to go for punitive damages that are guaranteed to bankrupt the proprietors and put them in debt until their dying days. The majority of Californians obviously supported proposition 8, since it passed, but one man who donated in support of it had to leave a company he co-founded.

It's even getting a bit personal because there's a couple going around telling everyone that I won't tune pianos for gay couples because I had to decline a job. If it would have been any day other than Thursday, which they said was the only day anyone would have been home, I would have done it but on Thursdays I have a job to do in the afternoon and I don't take any jobs in the morning because I have to start it at 2:00. You start out with a simple tuning job, find broken strings you have to replace, swollen hammers you have to dehumidify, and next thing you know that job that was supposed to go from 8:00 - 10:00 ends up ending at 6:00 and I can't afford that on Thursdays. Yet people are boycotting me because all they've heard was I turned them down because they're a gay couple, which I didn't even know until they started making the accusation. Some people who know about my Thursday job are even trying to get me ousted from that.

In the grand scheme of things these people aren't a real threat to anyone. I'm sure Denver has more than one bakery, I'm sure prop 8 would have passed without Brendon Eich's donation so to burn him at the stake while ignoring the people who voted for it is a bit extreme, particularly given that it was after the courts started overturning the bans, basically these people are harmless. They don't really keep anyone from living their lives so why ruin theirs? You may not like them, you may not like their beliefs, you may not like their religion, but everyone has at least five people who absolutely detest them. Imagine what it would be like if those five people had the ability to bankrupt you and make it virtually impossible to earn a living.

And what does it profit to take a business to court? If they're steadfast you'll just end up with malicious compliance. If an atheist ran a restaurant and refused to serve anyone he saw entering or exiting a church I'm not sure I'd want to take him to court to get him to serve church-goers. I'd always be wondering how much of the water in the soup came from the tap and how much came from him. If someone had to take a grocer to court to get him to sell to people with Republican bumper stickers I'd wonder how many of the eggs a guy with an "Impeach Obama" bumper sticker would be cracked.

In other words, when it's something involving county/state/federal governments such as marriage the courtroom is where you need to be. When it comes to business just let the marketplace sort itself out. If it hasn't already public opinion will eventually be such that proprietors who refuse to serve gay customers will start losing straight customers as well. They'll either have to adapt or lose their business. Forcing them out of business in court through damages that will bankrupt them, however, may make things worse all around. You encounter a growling dog, you avoid him. If you have to walk by him and he doesn't bite then he's just posturing. If you walk by him, he's growling, doesn't bite, and you kick him you very well may end up with teeth in your leg.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 15 (view)
Is college worth it?
Posted: 12/2/2014 1:26:56 PM
Other than certain fields, such as medicine, there isn't a thing they teach you in college that you can't learn by yourself through research and practice.

Unfortunately people won't give you an opportunity to prove that you know the field. My youngest niece is going to college for graphic design. That's a field I've trained myself in, and I've been working at it in some capacity independently for 15 years.

Yet if I were in competition with my niece for a job after she graduates they'd dismiss me outright for only having a high school education without ever finding out my level of proficiency. I might have a portfolio that would knock them out of their chairs, but it would go straight to the trash after they looked at my resumé. My niece, basically having a note from her college saying she knows what she's doing, would be guaranteed the job if I were her only competition despite the fact that my self training and experience goes back to when she was 4, back when she was just scribbling on paper and playing with coloring books.

Depending on what you want to do post high school training may be a necessity. Not necessarily college, but a lot of fields require formal training these days if you don't have the resources to start your own business. If you want to become an auto mechanic, for instance, you need to go to tech school. There was a time when the only training available was to pop open a hood and get in there, and the "untrained" mechanics in business started in those days and established a reputation, but someone starting today will be expected to either come out of a technical college or spend half a decade or more apprenticed to a mechanic who's been in business since before you were born.

The sad fact of the matter is that college drop-outs are seen today the way high school drop-outs were in the 1980s. People who didn't even start college are seen in the same light as the farm kids of the 30s - 50s who quit or were pulled out of school after 8th grade.

Of course, looking at it from a purely financial point of view, college doesn't really make any sense. At one point even holding an associate's degree was considered exceptional. Now it's expected. Because of that any useful field (i.e. assuming you don't major in something useless like art history or anything that takes an ethnic group, gender, or long bygone era and adds "studies" to it) you may train for, other than medicine, is crowded. People with a bachelor's degree in business management are having to take jobs as Wal Mart associates.

When I was working at McDonald's there were a few employees there who had started that job around the same time my mother worked there (and she was there 5 years before I started. This becomes relevant in a moment). One had a degree in finance. One had a degree in electrical engineering. One had a degree in accounting. They had started fresh out of college in 1994, planning on it just being a summer job while they looked for a job that they trained for. When I got a job there in 1999 they were still there, and they were still actively looking for jobs that would make use of their degrees. When I left in 2001 they were still there, still looking for jobs in their respective fields.

During that time they were still paying off student loans in addition to rent and vehicle payments. At $11,000 per year I actually had a higher standard of living than they did, because the only expense I had was a car payment. Even if I hadn't lived with my parents at that time and had rent to pay I still would have been living high on the hog compared to them because they had loans to pay back that exceeded 5 years of McDonald's wages for educations that didn't get them out of McDonald's.

So based on observation college isn't really worth it. You may get a degree in a field that would earn you $70,000 per year and still end up in a job that pays $13,920 with loans that would give you a standard of living comparable to someone who just gets by on $75 per week doing odd jobs for neighbors.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 187 (view)
Posted: 11/28/2014 7:05:51 PM

When she gets free, she runs to the door to get back inside, and will stand by the door until I open it for her.

Mine's the same age. I've been living on my aunt and uncle's old property since they passed away. They had cats that were fairly wild and I managed to tame them. The second generation consisted of a female and two toms (all siblings) and every one of the female's litters failed except for the cat I have now, who was one of only three kittens to make it past the first night and the only from her litter to make it past two months. I took her inside and ran out to buy a litter box when I heard coyotes getting a bit too close for comfort. She was around four or five months then.

I moved out of the house into a trailer behind it this past summer (the state's lien makes it so that fixing the termite damage that started when my aunt and uncle were still alive would seem like a waste, as the state can auction it off at any time, so a trailer I could have moved in the event of an auction seems like a better option) and my cat is staying in the house until I get her back to consistently using a litter box. She's probably the only cat in the state who has her own house, actually.

She'll run out just as soon as there's a way out. If I open one of the screenless windows from the outside she'll just jump on out barely even touching the window sill. If I open the back door she'll be out before I even have it open wide enough for me to walk through.

But if I slip off and go back in the trailer to watch her from the window she'll keep exploring for about half a minute, look around, when she can't see me she'll run to the front yard to look for me, then behind the trailer, and finally she'll run full speed back to the house and press up against the window, or go back inside if I left it open. When I open the trailer door she'll jump down and go back to exploring, continue for as long as I'm in sight, then when she loses track of me again she'll jump back in the window.

It's almost impossible to get her inside because if she goes back in on her own she'll jump out when I go to the house to close the window, but for some reason she won't stay outside unless she knows I'm around to keep an eye on her.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 176 (view)
Posted: 11/27/2014 3:27:59 PM

Letting cats outside unsupervised is cruel to all animals. They kill countless birds and other animals. Keeping a cat inside is not cruel. They're content to sleep most of the day. If PETA captures cats and takes them to Meowschwitz, they're actually doing the world a favor, though PETA does so for the wrong reasons.

That's one of the reasons I only let my cat out when I could supervise her, up until I found out that she's so scared of the outdoors that she won't stay out unless she knows I'm around. The other reason is she's not spayed (cheapest I've found was a little over $90 and I can't afford that) and I can't afford any kittens.

The idea of her killing doesn't bother me. It's in her nature and you can't change that any more than you can control where it rains, but when her grandmother and mother were strict outdoor cats it got old throwing rabbits that they killed and wouldn't eat in the weeds or waking up at night to the sound of my cats trying to fight off a neighbor's dog who came onto the property to haul off their kill (which they had little to no intention of eating when they made the kill).
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 167 (view)
Posted: 11/26/2014 1:26:59 AM

So now the actually vegans you have known (not some third party, 'I read that...') preach this. Exactly how many?

About 20 or so. Veganism is very popular in St. Louis, and my area is getting a lot of transplants from that city. Not sure if it's the country living that attracts them or they're moving here to be close to family, but most of the people who weren't born and raised here moved here from either St. Louis or Kansas City.

I have actually had people pull into my driveway to berate me for having a cat. According to the people who pull onto my property and roll the window down to yell at me when they see me in my front yard playing with my cat, I'm keeping her in bondage by not letting her run free in the wild. Now given that she won't even stay outside when she can't see me (I let her out through a screenless window so she can decide when to go in) she probably sees me as a bodyguard, something cats don't have in the wild, and she has a nearly endless supply of food while the cats who "live a natural life" are nothing but skin and bones so I'd wager that if she could understand and speak English she'd be saying "hey, I have a good thing going on here. Don't be trying to mess with it." Yet I am evil incarnate because I have the audacity to have a pet. One of my neighbors actually had to train his dog to go on newspapers that he could take out and burn because his teenage daughter kept getting harassed when taking him out.

I have a neighbor who raises bison. It's well known among the locals that she doesn't sell them for meat or use them for dairy (even if she wanted to I don't think she could hire anyone psychotic enough to milk a bison). It's strictly a conservation effort on her part, really more of a preserve than a farm. In fact, she's a strict vegetarian herself. When the St. Louis and KC folks moved in and started putting pressure on the cattle farmers to give up the trade she even put a sign up stating her intent. To these people it's not enough that they'll die of natural causes, they have to be running wild where they can get hit by cars, trample children, and cause all sorts of mayhem. There's one woman who will be facing trespassing charges, maybe even something for destruction of property since she cut a fence, after she gets out of the hospital (oddly enough, placed there by one of the bison she was trying to liberate) for trying to "free" the herd.

I recently had to help build a fence around my brother's property because my sister-in-law, who breeds goats, is always having to fend off militants, some of whom would have turned violent had my brother not warded them off.

It might be a St. Louis thing, but the vegans around here tend to be militant animal rights activists and the ones I have personally encountered will treat you like you have a toddler chained up in a small closet if you have a pet. I have no problem with them as a whole, and I've probably met some that I got along pretty well with that I didn't know were vegans, but I personally want to send the confirmed vegans I've encountered back to St. Louis and KC because they've been harassing me, my neighbors, my uncle, my cousins, and they've spent the entire deer season so far, both archery and firearm, trespassing on private property to interfere with hunters.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 143 (view)
Posted: 11/19/2014 2:11:54 PM

I don't know any of them either, and yet they exist, in the millions.

Didn't know there were people actually doing that. I can still say I don't know of any responsible vegan pet owners who would because those people aren't responsible.

Putting an obligatory carnivore on a vegetarian diet is far more cruel than the way the meat products they try to avoid are allegedly obtained. What do they do with the cat when it goes blind? Just let it stumble around the house for the next few years? I was tempted to say the next 10 - 15 years, but I can't imagine a carnivorous animal that's unable to digest plant matter living out its full potential life span.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 141 (view)
Posted: 11/19/2014 12:00:39 PM

wouldn't they also be against dating a vegan veggie that wouldn't place their meat eating pets on a vegan veggie diet

I don't know of any responsible vegan pet owners who would place a non grazing pet on a vegan diet. I don't know what would happen if you put a dog on one, but cats are obligatory carnivores. There's an enzyme that most animals produce on their own but cats can only get from meat, and without it they'll go blind (interesting fact: Since dogs produce this enzyme on their own it's not added to dog food. Therefore, if you put a cat on a strict diet of dog food it will eventually go blind).

Of course, the vegans I know who choose the lifestyle for philosophical reasons (as opposed to medical necessity) are against pet ownership in the first place so the more likely outcome is that they either won't date someone with a pet or they will require them to get rid of it. If they do allow them to keep their pet(s) they can generally identify the natural carnivores and accommodate them, even if they have trouble wrapping their head around the fact that we as a species are naturally omnivorous.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 128 (view)
Posted: 11/10/2014 8:39:46 PM

Could you (meat eaters) see yourself in a LTR with a vegan or vegetarian? Why or why not?

Have you run into any issues along these lines while dating? Would you even consider it a big deal?

I did a thread search, but they were all ancient and not related to seeing someone as having long term potential (or not) due to it.

So yeah, I'm curious (and also vegan)..

It depends on if they're preachy about it or tried to get me to go vegan/vegetarian. She'll have to accept the fact that when we go to my parents' house during deer season there will likely be a deer hanging from a tree (and I likely will have been the one to help hang it there, one time even helping drag one out of the woods on Christmas Eve).

My parents also won't change their meals to accommodate her. My brother's first wife was a vegetarian when they met (I think in her case it was a PTSD thing, losing a dog and almost losing her mother in a house fire and the smell of cooking meat reminded her of that, though she'd occasionally eat meat and dropped the whole vegetarian thing a few years before she ran out on my brother). My mother would keep some frozen vegetarian dinners in the freezer for her but she didn't stop cooking pork roast for Sunday dinner and while he didn't do it in an antagonistic manner (or for any reason other than to get it where it needed to go) my dad didn't make any apologies for carrying a platter of deer meat he was curing right past her.

Basically if she can handle the fact that I'm practically a carnivore, my dad's a hunter, and while I myself don't hunt (lack of time, not opposition to it) I often help get the prey back to the house and partake of the deer meat, there won't be any problems. If we get married or move in together and she cooks supper I won't insist that she cooks me a burger, but I also wouldn't put up with her stopping me from cooking my own burger. If she's a vegan she'll have to accept the presence of butter, milk, and cheese in the fridge under a freezer that contains 58% meat products (and that's not counting the stuff that isn't meat but contains dairy products).

In other words, if she doesn't try to make a vegan/vegetarian out of me I won't try to make a BBQ connoisseur out of her. I've never put up with a woman trying to change me and I won't start by letting one change my dietary habits, unless she's a physician I'm seeing on a professional basis and it's a life or death issue.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 27 (view)
Social Life
Posted: 11/10/2014 1:36:56 PM

I have a lot of friends who I see during different days but I don't have a friend to hang out with in the evenings on a Saturday night due to this reasons and feel lonely a I used to go out lot and now its hit me hard.

If it goes on long enough you might end up actually preferring to stay in. When I was in my early 20's I use to run around with my buddies every weekend. One set we'd hop in the car, drive in a random direction, and see if we could find anything new and the other set we'd go see a movie and end the night at Taco Bell.

Then they all either got married and had kids or moved away. Now I've reached the point that if one of them calls me up out of the blue and wants to do something I have to talk myself into it as more of a sense of obligation than a social thing, because I've fallen into a routine and it seems more like a disruption now than the good times we had ten years back.

I've been planning one having the old gangs (I had two, actually. One from school and the other from church. The ones from church are still close by, though they've changed churches) over for a weekly or bi-weekly game of Risk but I've been putting that off because I'll have to commit to it for at least two hours, maybe more. Since that's at least two hours of lost work or playing a board game with a couple of guys instead of looking for a potential wife I have to talk myself into it.

In other words, after enough time not running around with your friends you might lose the desire to run around with your friends.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 53 (view)
older women younger men
Posted: 11/10/2014 1:23:32 PM

The OP is in her late 60's

Late 50's, actually.

This whole thing is actually something I've been wondering about, actually. I personally don't go after older women. It may seem shallow, but I'm determined that when I find the right woman to settle down with I'm going to start a family. At my age women even five years older than me tend to either have all of the kids they're having (no problem with step-children, as that's how I got my youngest niece and nephew, but I don't like being told "you can raise this other guy's kids but your bloodline ends with you") or they don't have any kids and don't want any so I tend to limit my selection to the 25 - 33 crowd, sometimes going as young as 23 based on maturity or as old as 35 if they want kids.

When I logged in today I had two new profile views. One of them I honestly have no idea how I ended up on her radar because of distance (she's in Indiana, I'm in Missouri) and the fact that she's 45 years older than me. In two years she'll be 80. Now she may have seen a post on the forum and clicked my profile out of curiosity, but she's only looking for friends, anyway, so I'm not sure it's the same situation.

It's kind of strange, too. I get along with older people a lot better than my own age bracket. When I was a teenager my best friends were an elderly couple in their 80s. When I was in a situation to socialize with kids my age I usually ended up talking to their parents, whether at the park or waiting for my mom in the Wal Mart foyer or at the swimming pool. If it wasn't for the strong desire to have kids I'd probably pursue women in their 50s and older for the simple fact that we'd be more likely to get along than if I were to date a woman my age or a little younger.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 127 (view)
I don't kiss till the third date
Posted: 11/7/2014 5:39:21 PM

I totally agree with this! I don't expect the man to pay for my meal at any time!

The last girl I dated was like that. What's worse, if she wasn't paying for herself she'd pay for the both of us, often by grabbing the check directly out of the waitress' hand.

It might be because I'm archaic in a lot of respects, but I find it highly emasculating when the woman pays.
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 116 (view)
I don't kiss till the third date
Posted: 11/6/2014 1:33:22 PM

That seems harsh...

...I can guarantee you that most of our men in here who claim to be "business owners" are in reality living in a friend's basement. Their "business" is mowing lawns in summer and shoveling snow in winter.

Welcome back, Cotter (you knew someone would do it eventually if they haven't already).

That's kind of harsh itself. Not all of us live in our friend's basement. Some of us live in a trailer behind a rotting house that we inherited from an aunt.

In all seriousness, though, there are a lot of guys around here who mow lawns during the summer. The ones who work hard can earn between March and October (the usual end of the mowing season barring an early winter) what a lot of people earn annually working full time at a factory. Some of them earn even more, to the point that eventually they can hire a crew and only start a mower when they mow their own lawn or they're troubleshooting company equipment. For these guys shoveling snow during the winter, if they even mess with it, is extra income, not what keeps them fed until the grass starts growing again.

Guys don't put "self employed" hoping the implication will be that they're wealthy. It's also not something unemployed bums put down to cover up the fact that they just sit around watching TV all day instead of trying to get a job.

I'm self employed myself. It's hardly the slacker's paradise many people believe it to be. When most people see "self employed" they think he's lying about wealth or he's a no account bum. If the annual income were still visible on profiles (it may be if you upgrade, I don't know) you would see that I'm not claiming to be wealthy when I say that my profession is self employed.

And if you spent a day with me you'd know I wasn't using "self employment" to keep people from thinking I'm a bum while living like a bum. It's work 22/7, minus a two hours a week to watch Doctor Who and a Hee Haw rerun, working harder and longer than a McDonald's employee who moonlights as a Wal Mart associate, all without the guarantee of pay (failed products, clients stiff you on your service (I still have customers who, between the lot of them, owe me over $400 for piano tuning), theft, etc.). If you spent a day with me you'd fall asleep on my couch while I was working, I'd probably get my night's sleep (generally 2 hours unless I'm sick, then it can be as many as 4) before you woke up, and I'd be working when you woke up.

There aren't any days off, either. On Sundays if my brothers go to my parents' house for dinner it's supposed to be a day to relax and spend with family. When I'm playing Risk or having an archery contest with my nephew my mind is still on work, constantly calling in to check my answering machine to see if I have any new tuning jobs, calling my friend to have her log into my account to see if I've made any new sales (which usually ends the game/contest if I have any as I have to get to work on the custom order(s)), brainstorming with my brother and sister-in-law about apps they could use that could also turn me a profit on the app stores, basically when I'm not working with my hands I'm constantly working to find something to make and sell, program, or I'm trying to drum up reliable business for my piano tuning.

If I could get a 9 - 5 job (keep putting in the applications, keep losing out to more experienced or, in the fields where age matters such as retail, younger applicants) it would actually be a vacation for me. I'd feel like a bum having all of that free time before and after work, two days a week off, and 8 hours of sleep every night.

So a lot of the guys who say they're self employed may just mow lawns during the summer, but unless they just do the bare minimum, take on one or two clients just to have money for beer and cigarettes, that doesn't mean they don't work as hard, if not harder than anyone on a company payroll and most of the people I've encountered are quite honest about their station in life. If they only make $12,000 per year they won't tell you that they could buy Trump Tower, and frankly this whole mentality that if you don't own or rent a brick and mortar establishment for your business you're just coasting through life is getting pretty old.
Show ALL Forums