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 Author Thread: Useless facts in general about general stuff and nonsense
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Useless facts in general about general stuff and nonsense
Posted: 5/23/2009 5:29:43 AM
When I sneeze, my cat leaves the room.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Does OBAMA have to place a description on how we leave Iraq? Do we have to WIN?
Posted: 3/7/2009 4:25:23 AM
Just go.....pack up your troubles in your old kit- bag. And get gone, daddio.
The longer the US stays in Iraq, the quicker its empire wil crumble. The same goes for
Afghanistan. The US has enough to deal with internally, forget about
shaping world dynamics.
Let China take the stage for now.

Take your lumps, a retreat can be a good thing.
A winning poker player knows when he's beat.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Colonoscopy
Posted: 3/7/2009 3:54:01 AM
I've never laughed harder, or louder, in my life.
My roomies probably think I've gone gonzo.

One of the best. Absolutely on the spot...the funniest" introspective" humor I have ever read. Cheers, and lets have some more.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 32 (view)
 
reflections about today's historic moment
Posted: 11/8/2008 12:53:09 AM
I've been torn by tides of emotion before, during , and after this amazing shift
in the American paradigm.
The People have spoken, and the words they spoke were...

Yes, we can.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Martial Law coming soon
Posted: 10/3/2008 2:35:35 AM
NORTHCOM Plans 5 Day Martial Law Exercise
The United States Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) has just announced plans for an anti-terrorism exercise called Vigilant Shield 08. The exercise which is slated to run from October 15th to October 20th is described as a way to prepare, prevent and respond to any number of national crises. The exercise is simply a test case scenario for the implementation of martial law. Although the description of the exercise is disturbing, USNORTHCOM also announced that they are more prepared for a natural disaster and a terrorist attack after they used their response to Hurricane Katrina as a test laboratory.

During Hurricane Katrina, authorities violated the constitutional rights of citizens by stealing peoples firearms and even relocating people against their will. These announcements are incredibly disturbing on a number of levels as the nature of Vigilant Shield 08 and the admission that Hurricane Katrina was used as a test laboratory shows that the government is actively preparing the military and government institutions for martial law.

This exercise is clearly a way to prepare government to respond to a national crisis with martial law. This announcement also follows a number of other news stories that indicate the government is becoming more actively prepared for the implementation of martial law.

Here is a link to the full press release from USNORTHCOM describing Vigilant Shield 08.
http://www.northcom.mil/News/2007/083007.html
_________________________________________________


I think the fact that these exercises are happening at this time speaks to the
truth of the matter. Just one more attack on your once great constitution, America.
Why don't more people see the looming dangers? The similarity to the nazi regime
is becoming more pronounced, only the motives have changed. One wanted
racial purity and world dominance. It seems all this administration wants is money...
(and world domination of course...) Interesting times indeed.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Iraq War - Winning Isn't News
Posted: 7/18/2008 4:41:12 AM
This is not a war. It's an occupation. Period.
First to gain the ground, then annex the resources. Look at the oil companies
that won the latest contracts. A sad period for people who love the States and all
they originally stood for. A great constitution perverted by self-serving hacks
and political gamblers.

I'm so sorry that so much has been squandered to serve these morons goals.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 32 (view)
 
It's about time George Bush got the respect he deserves
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:23:50 PM
One caution I would like to put forward, he is still the president
and he's just crazy enough to want to go out in a blaze of, hmmm......
never mind.......
He now has an honour that he has truly earned.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 138 (view)
 
PickUp Trucks run Empty
Posted: 6/17/2008 5:26:50 AM
I run a 56 Ford F100 8 months a year. I have buddies jiving me because I haul
stuff in my hotrod. So what? It's a truck, I use it as was intended. Period.
Trucks have their place....soccer practice not included.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
 
Wisdom from our elders....
Posted: 4/13/2008 10:35:08 PM
One I heard from my Grandpa:

"Never pet a burning dog."

What it meant I could never quite grasp, but it seemed like
sage advice at the time.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 49 (view)
 
Good Science Books
Posted: 3/15/2008 2:34:23 AM
The best book I've read lately is 'Healing Gaia' -- Practical Medicine for the Planet.-

Written by James Lovelock....a brilliant mind. He was right about so many things.
The book was published 17 years ago and still rings true.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 6 (view)
 
A New Cold War?
Posted: 3/5/2008 1:29:42 AM
Dang....I hate being right about these things..
Almost as much as I hate lying next to a cornered wildcat.
One of those flailing claws can catch, and tear.
Wish us luck....
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Psycho Killer Raccoons Terrorize Olympia
Posted: 3/4/2008 12:48:01 AM
I've been having trouble with coons coming in the cat door to eat the cats food.
I was keeping the bowl in the mud-room so I just moved it down the hall to the spare bedroom. One night I heard a noise in the hall, looked at the cat and thought oh-oh.
Sure enough, there was the bandit coming down the hall. He just looked at me as if to
say, oh sorry, wrong house...turned around and ambled off.
I went after him with the towel I was going to defend myself with ( ????) and he tore
the frame right off the cat door going out!
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 8 (view)
 
The V-22 Osprey goes to war
Posted: 2/25/2008 12:06:05 AM
The Osprey is unfortunately a weapon designed by a committee, then modified
by the bean-counters to be absolutely useless for anyone.
Not to mention being a handful to fly at the best of times.
The people behind this debacle need to consider their next moves much more carefully.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Another Horseman Rides Across Iraq
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:24:48 PM
Excellent thread.

The facts are pretty clear to unbiased observers. Iraq was indeed better off
being run by a despotic madman. I'm not being sarcastic here.
Saddam, although certifiable, was in fact one of the stabilizing factors in
the mideast. He was a moderating influence on Iran and held in check other
radical groups just by being a little crazier than they were.

At least he kept Iraq, and her people in a modicum of security
and civilization. Now they have neither.
I hold Bush/Cheney responsible for this endless tragedy.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Are we just obserevers or can we actually make a deposit in the sperm suppository of life?
Posted: 1/2/2008 10:42:44 AM
Ms to MG:
Thank you for speaking out and showing people alternative ways of thinking.
A difficult task at the best of times...
Thank you for your insights over this past year.
You HAVE made a difference, and I believe a very real one.

You are not perfect, have made some errors.....(Vancouver airport tasing?)
In any case, you have been a voice of civility and reason in these forums.
Thanks again, and let us hope our words can effect some changes, big or small.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 12 (view)
 
Ethanol Killing the Enviroment
Posted: 1/2/2008 10:22:24 AM
The push by government and oil companies toward ethanol is in my
opinion a huge waste of time and money...( And valuable crop lands)
There are alternatives to using viable agricultural lands to support our reliance on hydrocarbons.

We need to assess our real needs and act accordingly. I'm not perfect, I drive
a truck that is beyond any doubt, a gas hog.
I'm actually thinking of converting my 56 f-100 to an electrical power system, it can be done. I'm still a little hesitant because of the prices for the components at this time.
Looks like it could cost up to 40k to achieve.
But hey, how cool would it be to have the first hot-rod truck to be be all electric
and still turn 12 seconds in the quarter mile?
( Would have to have a killer sound system too, with the vvvrrooom synthesized...)

That said, I support any other rational use of our tax dollars to research alternate
energy supplies, using the ample energy broadcast by the sun to generate
sustainable power. If we put our minds to it we could harness up to 10% of the
natural energy beamed upon the earth. That could eliminate up to 70% of the fossil fuel used today.

Might sound like science fiction to many people, but so did a flight to the moon.
And that's not so very long ago....
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
 
Boy, 10, mauled by two pit bulls
Posted: 12/30/2007 3:07:48 AM
I was attacked by a pit bull just a little while ago. No huge injuries, just glad I
didn't crap my pants when she went for my jewels. Torn jeans and a couple
of toothmarks later I froze and someone dragged her off.

I was helping a friends son move, he forgot to tell me about the dog..and
forgot to tell the dog about me. She was defending her turf, her master was
not there. Whatever....she launched at my gear. That's some scary animal.
That is one aggressive breed of dog. If that's what a good one
does, look out for the bad ones.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 7 (view)
 
Psychology of Cats
Posted: 12/29/2007 8:47:23 AM
I've just started a job which entails leaving my cat to his own devices for 5 days of the week. Plenty of food, water and his own door.
When I get home on the weekend he follows me nonstop, berating me in a very
familiar tone.
I swear he is channelling my ex-wife.
(He's coming with me next trip...)

 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 15 (view)
 
Benazir Bhutto assassinated
Posted: 12/27/2007 5:35:55 PM
I heard the news today and felt a little piece of hope torn away.
She wasn't perfect, but she had the heart of a lion.
For her to come home knowing!!!.... that she would be targeted
from the moment she stepped onto Pakistani soil.
That act ranks as one the bravest things I have ever seen.

Very few of us have ideals we are willing to risk almost certain death for.
I don't believe she came back for venal reasons, she returned
because she had hope and faith in the people, and Pakistan itself.

A martyr is born.
This crime may reap a harvest very different from
what the criminals hoped for.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 26 (view)
 
Why are we in Afghanistan
Posted: 12/24/2007 12:43:51 AM
Yes.

Let's give thanks to all the people who are making a difference in this world.
Gods Bless....

Have a safe and happy holiday all.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 5 (view)
 
A New Cold War?
Posted: 12/23/2007 11:57:07 PM
Perhaps some posters here have missed the point. msg. 13, and 17....surprised
really.

__________________________________

Article by G. John Ikenberry
Professor of Politics and International Affairs at Princeton University.



The rise of China will undoubtedly be one of the great dramas of the twenty-first century. China's extraordinary economic growth and active diplomacy are already transforming East Asia, and future decades will see even greater increases in Chinese power and influence. But exactly how this drama will play out is an open question. Will China overthrow the existing order or become a part of it? And what, if anything, can the United States do to maintain its position as China rises?

Some observers believe that the American era is coming to an end, as the Western-oriented world order is replaced by one increasingly dominated by the East. The historian Niall Ferguson has written that the bloody twentieth century witnessed "the descent of the West" and "a reorientation of the world" toward the East. Realists go on to note that as China gets more powerful and the United States' position erodes, two things are likely to happen: China will try to use its growing influence to reshape the rules and institutions of the international system to better serve its interests, and other states in the system -- especially the declining hegemon -- will start to see China as a growing security threat. The result of these developments, they predict, will be tension, distrust, and conflict, the typical features of a power transition. In this view, the drama of China's rise will feature an increasingly powerful China and a declining United States locked in an epic battle over the rules and leadership of the international system. And as the world's largest country emerges not from within but outside the established post-World War II international order, it is a drama that will end with the grand ascendance of China and the onset of an Asian-centered world order.

That course, however, is not inevitable. The rise of China does not have to trigger a wrenching hegemonic transition. The U.S.-Chinese power transition can be very different from those of the past because China faces an international order that is fundamentally different from those that past rising states confronted. China does not just face the United States; it faces a Western-centered system that is open, integrated, and rule-based, with wide and deep political foundations. The nuclear revolution, meanwhile, has made war among great powers unlikely -- eliminating the major tool that rising powers have used to overturn international systems defended by declining hegemonic states. Today's Western order, in short, is hard to overturn and easy to join.

This unusually durable and expansive order is itself the product of farsighted U.S. leadership. After World War II, the United States did not simply establish itself as the leading world power. It led in the creation of universal institutions that not only invited global membership but also brought democracies and market societies closer together. It built an order that facilitated the participation and integration of both established great powers and newly independent states. (It is often forgotten that this postwar order was designed in large part to reintegrate the defeated Axis states and the beleaguered Allied states into a unified international system.) Today, China can gain full access to and thrive within this system. And if it does, China will rise, but the Western order -- if managed properly -- will live on.

As it faces an ascendant China, the United States should remember that its leadership of the Western order allows it to shape the environment in which China will make critical strategic choices. If it wants to preserve this leadership, Washington must work to strengthen the rules and institutions that underpin that order -- making it even easier to join and harder to overturn. U.S. grand strategy should be built around the motto "The road to the East runs through the West." It must sink the roots of this order as deeply as possible, giving China greater incentives for integration than for opposition and increasing the chances that the system will survive even after U.S. relative power has declined.

The United States' "unipolar moment" will inevitably end. If the defining struggle of the twenty-first century is between China and the United States, China will have the advantage. If the defining struggle is between China and a revived Western system, the West will triumph.


TRANSITIONAL ANXIETIES

China is well on its way to becoming a formidable global power. The size of its economy has quadrupled since the launch of market reforms in the late 1970s and, by some estimates, will double again over the next decade. It has become one of the world's major manufacturing centers and consumes roughly a third of the global supply of iron, steel, and coal. It has accumulated massive foreign reserves, worth more than $1 trillion at the end of 2006. China's military spending has increased at an inflation-adjusted rate of over 18 percent a year, and its diplomacy has extended its reach not just in Asia but also in Africa, Latin America, and the Middle East. Indeed, whereas the Soviet Union rivaled the United States as a military competitor only, China is emerging as both a military and an economic rival -- heralding a profound shift in the distribution of global power.

Power transitions are a recurring problem in international relations. As scholars such as Paul Kennedy and Robert Gilpin have described it, world politics has been marked by a succession of powerful states rising up to organize the international system. A powerful state can create and enforce the rules and institutions of a stable global order in which to pursue its interests and security. But nothing lasts forever: long-term changes in the distribution of power give rise to new challenger states, who set off a struggle over the terms of that international order. Rising states want to translate their newly acquired power into greater authority in the global system -- to reshape the rules and institutions in accordance with their own interests. Declining states, in turn, fear their loss of control and worry about the security implications of their weakened position.
___________________________________________

The words spoken in that article are not mine but express my views completely.
If people want to hide their heads in the sand, that is the choice they will have
to live with.

Learn a Mandarin dialect, it may come in handy.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 1 (view)
 
A New Cold War?
Posted: 12/22/2007 6:44:36 AM
I really hope I'm just paranoid, but....does anyone else see the undeclared
Cold War happening again?
We lived under the shadow of the bomb for many years.

Now we have a third variable, China.
Between the pressures applied by Putin (Man of the Year?)
and the economic and diplomatic pressures being exerted by China...
The US financial and foreign policy is tiptoe on the tight-wire right now.
I worry about that. Our dreams may be in orbit with a falling star.
I don't see any action here, but a war by economic means.

What should be our course?
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 25 (view)
 
Why are we in Afghanistan
Posted: 12/22/2007 5:53:18 AM
GTBM:

Again you have shoved your foot halfway down your throat.
You seem to be able to talk around it. Just how big IS your mouth?

Afghanistan, once again.....has no oil.

None.

That is not the prize in Afghanistan. The issue is whether the US
or Russia has control of the conduit for East Asian oil.
If you are still trying to get your brain around that fact, I feel sorry for you.

Your education has slowed lately, too many margaritas?
I hope you can apply your wit and wisdom to a reply, without resorting
to meaningless drivel and personal attacks.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 39 (view)
 
The United States is once again suppressing information that runs counter to invasion.
Posted: 12/6/2007 9:50:58 AM
I had posted this speech in another thread, but I believe that his words would
also be appropriate here. It's a long read but well worth the time spent. I highly recommend that all the apologists for Bush and Cheney read it carefully.
____________________________________________________________




By Daniel Ellsberg September 26, 2007 (Text of a speech delivered September 20, 2007)

*Daniel Ellsberg is author of Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers.

Editor's Note: Daniel Ellsberg, the former Defense Department analyst who leaked the secret Pentagon Papers history of the Vietnam War, offered insights into the looming war with Iran and the loss of liberty in the United States at an American University symposium on Sept. 20.


I think nothing has higher priority than averting an attack on Iran, which I think will be accompanied by a further change in our way of governing here that in effect will convert us into what I would call a police state.

If there's another 9/11 under this regime ... it means that they switch on full extent all the apparatus of a police state that has been patiently constructed, largely secretly at first but eventually leaked out and known and accepted by the Democratic people in Congress, by the Republicans and so forth.

Will there be anything left for NSA to increase its surveillance of us? ... They may be to the limit of their technical capability now, or they may not. But if they're not now they will be after another 9/11.

And I would say after the Iranian retaliation to an American attack on Iran, you will then see an increased attack on Iran - an escalation - which will be also accompanied by a total suppression of dissent in this country, including detention camps.

It's a little hard for me to distinguish the two contingencies; they could come together. Another 9/11 or an Iranian attack in which Iran's reaction against Israel, against our shipping, against our troops in Iraq above all, possibly in this country, will justify the full panoply of measures that have been prepared now, legitimized, and to some extent written into law. ...

This is an unusual gang, even for Republicans. [But] I think that the successors to this regime are not likely to roll back the assault on the Constitution. They will take advantage of it, they will exploit it.

Will Hillary Clinton as president decide to turn off NSA after the last five years of illegal surveillance? Will she deprive her administration her ability to protect United States citizens from possible terrorism by blinding herself and deafening herself to all that NSA can provide? I don't think so.

Unless this somehow, by a change in our political climate, of a radical change, unless this gets rolled back in the next year or two before a new administration comes in - and there's no move to do this at this point - unless that happens I don't see it happening under the next administration, whether Republican or Democratic.

THE NEXT COUP

Let me simplify this and not just to be rhetorical: A coup has occurred. I woke up the other day realizing, coming out of sleep, that a coup has occurred. It's not just a question that a coup lies ahead with the next 9/11. That's the next coup, that completes the first.

The last five years have seen a steady assault on every fundamental of our Constitution, ... what the rest of the world looked at for the last 200 years as a model and experiment to the rest of the world - in checks and balances, limited government, Bill of Rights, individual rights protected from majority infringement by the Congress, an independent judiciary, the possibility of impeachment.

There have been violations of these principles by many presidents before. Most of the specific things that Bush has done in the way of illegal surveillance and other matters were done under my boss Lyndon Johnson in the Vietnam War: the use of CIA, FBI, NSA against Americans.

I could go through a list going back before this century to Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus in the Civil War, and before that the Alien and Sedition Acts in the 18th century. I think that none of those presidents were in fact what I would call quite precisely the current administration: domestic enemies of the Constitution.

I think that none of these presidents with all their violations, which were impeachable had they been found out at the time and in nearly every case their violations were not found out until they were out of office so we didn't have the exact challenge that we have today.

That was true with the first term of Nixon and certainly of Johnson, Kennedy and others. They were impeachable, they weren't found out in time, but I think it was not their intention to in the crisis situations that they felt justified their actions, to change our form of government.

It is increasingly clear with each new book and each new leak that comes out, that Richard Cheney and his now chief of staff David Addington have had precisely that in mind since at least the early 70s. Not just since 1992, not since 2001, but have believed in Executive government, single-branch government under an Executive president - elected or not - with unrestrained powers. They did not believe in restraint.

When I say this I'm not saying they are traitors. I don't think they have in mind allegiance to some foreign power or have a desire to help a foreign power. I believe they have in their own minds a love of this country and what they think is best for this country - but what they think is best is directly and consciously at odds with what the Founders of this country and Constitution thought.

They believe we need a different kind of government now, an Executive government essentially, rule by decree, which is what we're getting with signing statements. Signing statements are talked about as line-item vetoes which is one [way] of describing them which are unconstitutional in themselves, but in other ways are just saying the president says "I decide what I enforce. I decide what the law is. I legislate."

It's [the same] with the military commissions, courts that are under the entire control of the Executive Branch, essentially of the president. A concentration of legislative, judicial, and executive powers in one branch, which is precisely what the Founders meant to avert, and tried to avert and did avert to the best of their ability in the Constitution.

FOUNDERS HAD IT RIGHT

Now I'm appealing to that as a crisis right now not just because it is a break in tradition but because I believe in my heart and from my experience that on this point the Founders had it right.

It's not just "our way of doing things" - it was a crucial perception on the corruption of power to anybody including Americans. On procedures and institutions that might possibly keep that power under control because the alternative was what we have just seen, wars like Vietnam, wars like Iraq, wars like the one coming.

That brings me to the second point. This Executive Branch, under specifically Bush and Cheney, despite opposition from most of the rest of the branch, even of the cabinet, clearly intends a war against Iran which even by imperialist standards, standards in other words which were accepted not only by nearly everyone in the Executive Branch but most of the leaders in Congress. The interests of the empire, the need for hegemony, our right to control and our need to control the oil of the Middle East and many other places. That is consensual in our establishment. ...

But even by those standards, an attack on Iran is insane. And I say that quietly, I don't mean it to be heard as rhetoric. Of course it's not only aggression and a violation of international law, a supreme international crime, but it is by imperial standards, insane in terms of the consequences.

Does that make it impossible? No, it obviously doesn't, it doesn't even make it unlikely.

That is because two things come together that with the acceptance for various reasons of the Congress - Democrats and Republicans - and the public and the media, we have freed the White House - the president and the vice president - from virtually any restraint by Congress, courts, media, public, whatever.

And on the other hand, the people who have this unrestrained power are crazy. Not entirely, but they have crazy beliefs.

And the question is what then, what can we do about this? We are heading towards an insane operation. It is not certain. It is likely. ... I want to try to be realistic myself here, to encourage us to do what we must do, what is needed to be done with the full recognition of the reality. Nothing is impossible.

What I'm talking about in the way of a police state, in the way of an attack on Iran is not certain. Nothing is certain, actually. However, I think it is probable, more likely than not, that in the next 15, 16 months of this administration we will see an attack on Iran. Probably. Whatever we do.

And ... we will not succeed in moving Congress probably, and Congress probably will not stop the president from doing this. And that's where we're heading. That's a very ugly, ugly prospect.

However, I think it's up to us to work to increase that small perhaps - anyway not large - possibility and probability to avert this within the next 15 months, aside from the effort that we have to make for the rest of our lives.

RESTORING THE REPUBLIC

Getting back the constitutional government and improving it will take a long time. And I think if we don't get started now, it won't be started under the next administration.

Getting out of Iraq will take a long time. Averting Iran and averting a further coup in the face of a 9/11, another attack, is for right now, it can't be put off. It will take a kind of political and moral courage of which we have seen very little...

We have a really unusual concentration here and in this audience, of people who have in fact changed their lives, changed their position, lost their friends to a large extent, risked and experienced being called terrible names, "traitor," "weak on terrorism" - names that politicians will do anything to avoid being called.

How do we get more people in the government and in the public at large to change their lives now in a crisis in a critical way? How do we get Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for example? What kinds of pressures, what kinds of influences can be brought to bear to get Congress to do their jobs? It isn't just doing their jobs. Getting them to obey their oaths of office.

I took an oath many times, an oath of office as a Marine lieutenant, as an official in the Defense Department, as an official in the State Department as a Foreign Service officer. A number of times I took an oath of office which is the same oath office taken by every member of Congress and every official in the United States and every officer in the United States armed services.

And that oath is not to a Commander in Chief, which is not mentioned. It is not to a fuehrer. It is not even to superior officers. The oath is precisely to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Now that is an oath I violated every day for years in the Defense Department without realizing it when I kept my mouth shut when I knew the public was being lied into a war as they were lied into Iraq, as they are being lied into war in Iran.

I knew that I had the documents that proved it, and I did not put it out then. I was not obeying my oath which I eventually came to do.

I've often said that Lt. Ehren Watada - who still faces trial for refusing to obey orders to deploy to Iraq which he correctly perceives to be an unconstitutional and aggressive war - is the single officer in the United States armed services who is taking seriously in upholding his oath.

The president is clearly violating that oath, of course. Everybody under him who understands what is going on and there are myriad, are violating their oaths. And that's the standard that I think we should be asking of people.

CONGRESSIONAL COURAGE

On the Democratic side, on the political side, I think we should be demanding of our Democratic leaders in the House and Senate - and frankly of the Republicans - that it is not their highest single absolute priority to be reelected or to maintain a Democratic majority so that Pelosi can still be Speaker of the House and Reid can be in the Senate, or to increase that majority.

I'm not going to say that for politicians they should ignore that, or that they should do something else entirely, or that they should not worry about that.

Of course that will be and should be a major concern of theirs, but they're acting like it's their sole concern. Which is business as usual. "We have a majority, let's not lose it, let's keep it. Let's keep those chairmanships." Exactly what have those chairmanships done for us to save the Constitution in the last couple of years?

I am shocked by the Republicans today that I read in the Washington Post who yesterday threatened a filibuster if we ... get back habeas corpus. The ruling-out of habeas corpus with the help of the Democrats did not get us back to George the First -- it got us back to before King John 700 years ago in terms of counter-revolution.

We need some way, and Ann Wright has one way, of sitting in, in Conyers office and getting arrested. Ray McGovern has been getting arrested, pushed out the other day for saying the simple words "swear him in" when it came to testimony.

I think we've got to somehow get home to them [in Congress] that this is the time for them to uphold the oath, to preserve the Constitution, which is worth struggling for in part because it's only with the power that the Constitution gives Congress responding to the public, only with that can we protect the world from mad men in power in the White House who intend an attack on Iran.

And the current generation of American generals and others who realize that this will be a catastrophe have not shown themselves - they might be people who in their past lives risked their bodies and their lives in Vietnam or elsewhere, like [Colin] Powell, and would not risk their career or their relation with the president to the slightest degree.

That has to change. And it's the example of people like those up here who somehow brought home to our representatives that they as humans and as citizens have the power to do likewise and find in themselves the courage to protect this country and protect the world. Thank you.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 401 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media IS Reporting
Posted: 12/2/2007 11:49:29 PM
It all looks good on paper, and spreadsheets...but in the field it's a bit
of a different story. The Taliban are resurgent in many areas, they haven't gone away for the winter like they usually do.
They have built alliances with many clans and people.. They will be there in force in the spring, perhaps even some winter attacks.
Any ideas?

 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 375 (view)
 
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/29/2007 2:30:17 AM
^^^^^^^
If that's your idea of humour, take it elsewhere.
What kind of slime would post something like that on a serious thread?
You need to give your head a shake.

The women there have enough problems without people like you
denigrating them because of their poverty.
A very low class comment, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 78 (view)
 
When I say a few extra pounds
Posted: 11/27/2007 2:26:51 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words. Tell of a few extra pounds, then show
exactly where they are. Be truthful in all things, let others make any judgements.

Above all! ....Don't be discouraged. Your match is out in the world, somewhere.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 364 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media IS Reporting
Posted: 11/27/2007 1:39:06 PM
gottobeme:

It's obvious to me you didn't even read the post you cited. If you had you would
have noticed it's not about Afghanistans oil reserves, but about the strategic
position the country occupies. If you want to retain any credibility at all,
read the complete post, and apply your (obviously limited) reasoning powers before you spout off.

Really..... you want to bring back the McCarthy years? Karl Marx? You're a joke.
The facts are there, and if someone with your alleged education can't see them
it's a good indication of how brainwashed the masses truly are.

I understand the US needs support at this time to help prop up its tottering
hegemony over the region.
I question whether we should continue to help them, or concentrate our efforts on helping the Afghan people.






 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 346 (view)
 
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/26/2007 1:20:34 PM
Any news on the proposed pipeline?


'In 1998,****Cheney, now US vice-president but then chief executive of a major oil services company, remarked: "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." But the oil and gas there is worthless until it is moved. The only route which makes both political and economic sense is through Afghanistan. '

From the 1998 Congressional Record.
-___________________________________
Another timbit of historical interest....

U.S. INTERESTS IN THE CENTRAL ASIAN
REPUBLICS HEARING BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC
OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL
RELATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION
FEBRUARY 12, 1998

Next we would like to hear from Mr. John J. Maresca, vice president of international relations, Unocal Corporation. You may proceed as you wish.

STATEMENT OF JOHN J. MARESCA, VICE
PRESIDENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, UNOCAL CORPORATION

Mr. Maresca. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's nice to see you again. I am John Maresca, vice president for international relations of the Unocal Corporation. Unocal, as you know, is one of the world's leading energy resource and project development companies. I appreciate your invitation to speak here today. I believe these hearings are important and timely. I congratulate you for focusing on Central Asia oil and gas reserves and the role they play in shaping U.S. policy.

I would like to focus today on three issues. First, the need for multiple pipeline routes for Central Asian oil and gas resources. Second, the need for U.S. support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements to the conflicts in the region, including Afghanistan. Third, the need for structured assistance to encourage economic reforms and the development of appropriate investment climates in the region. In this regard, we specifically support repeal or removal of section 907 of the Freedom Support Act.

Mr. Chairman, the Caspian region contains tremendous untapped hydrocarbon reserves. Just to give an idea of the scale, proven natural gas reserves equal more than 236 trillion cubic feet. The region's total oil reserves may well reach more than 60 billion barrels of oil. Some estimates are as high as 200 billion barrels. In 1995, the region was producing only 870,000 barrels per day. By 2010, western companies could increase production to about 4.5 million barrels a day, an increase of more than 500 percent in only 15 years. If this occurs, the region would represent about 5 percent of the world's total oil production.

One major problem has yet to be resolved: how to get the region's vast energy resources to the markets where they are needed. Central Asia is isolated. Their natural resources are land locked, both geographically and politically. Each of the countries in the Caucasus and Central Asia faces difficult political challenges. Some have unsettled wars or latent conflicts. Others have evolving systems where the laws and even the courts are dynamic and changing. In addition, a chief technical obstacle which we in the industry face in transporting oil is the region's existing pipeline infrastructure.

Because the region's pipelines were constructed during the Moscow-centered Soviet period, they tend to head north and west toward Russia. There are no connections to the south and east. But Russia is currently unlikely to absorb large new quantities of foreign oil. It's unlikely to be a significant market for new energy in the next decade. It lacks the capacity to deliver it to other markets.

Two major infrastructure projects are seeking to meet the need for additional export capacity. One, under the aegis of the Caspian Pipeline Consortium, plans to build a pipeline west from the northern Caspian to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk. Oil would then go by tanker through the Bosporus to the Mediterranean and world markets.

The other project is sponsored by the Azerbaijan International Operating Company, a consortium of 11 foreign oil companies, including four American companies, Unocal, Amoco, Exxon and Pennzoil. This consortium conceives of two possible routes, one line would angle north and cross the north Caucasus to Novorossiysk. The other route would cross Georgia to a shipping terminal on the Black Sea. This second route could be extended west and south across Turkey to the Mediterranean port of Ceyhan.

But even if both pipelines were built, they would not have enough total capacity to transport all the oil expected to flow from the region in the future. Nor would they have the capability to move it to the right markets. Other export pipelines must be built.

At Unocal, we believe that the central factor in planning these pipelines should be the location of the future energy markets that are most likely to need these new supplies. Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, and the Newly Independent States of the former Soviet Union are all slow growth markets where demand will grow at only a half a percent to perhaps 1.2 percent per year during the period 1995 to 2010.

Asia is a different story all together. It will have a rapidly increasing energy consumption need. Prior to the recent turbulence in the Asian Pacific economies, we at Unocal anticipated that this region's demand for oil would almost double by 2010. Although the short-term increase in demand will probably not meet these expectations, we stand behind our long-term estimates.

I should note that it is in everyone's interest that there be adequate supplies for Asia's increasing energy requirements. If Asia's energy needs are not satisfied, they will simply put pressure on all world markets, driving prices upwards everywhere.

The key question then is how the energy resources of Central Asia can be made available to nearby Asian markets. There are two possible solutions, with several variations. One option is to go east across China, but this would mean constructing a pipeline of more than 3,000 kilometers just to reach Central China. In addition, there would have to be a 2,000-kilometer connection to reach the main population centers along the coast. The question then is what will be the cost of transporting oil through this pipeline, and what would be the netback which the producers would receive.

For those who are not familiar with the terminology, the netback is the price which the producer receives for his oil or gas at the well head after all the transportation costs have been deducted. So it's the price he receives for the oil he produces at the well head.

The second option is to build a pipeline south from Central Asia to the Indian Ocean. One obvious route south would cross Iran, but this is foreclosed for American companies because of U.S. sanctions legislation. The only other possible route is across Afghanistan, which has of course its own unique challenges. The country has been involved in bitter warfare for almost two decades, and is still divided by civil war. From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company.

Mr. Chairman, as you know, we have worked very closely with the University of Nebraska at Omaha in developing a training program for Afghanistan which will be open to both men and women, and which will operate in both parts of the country, the north and south.

Unocal foresees a pipeline which would become part of a regional system that will gather oil from existing pipeline infrastructure in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia. The 1,040-mile long oil pipeline would extend south through Afghanistan to an export terminal that would be constructed on the Pakistan coast. This 42-inch diameter pipeline will have a shipping capacity of one million barrels of oil per day. The estimated cost of the project, which is similar in scope to the trans-Alaska pipeline, is about $2.5 billion.

Given the plentiful natural gas supplies of Central Asia, our aim is to link gas resources with the nearest viable markets. This is basic for the commercial viability of any gas project. But these projects also face geopolitical challenges. Unocal and the Turkish company Koc Holding are interested in bringing competitive gas supplies to Turkey. The proposed Eurasia natural gas pipeline would transport gas from Turkmenistan directly across the Caspian Sea through Azerbaijan and Georgia to Turkey. Of course the demarcation of the Caspian remains an issue.

Last October, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline Consortium, called CentGas, in which Unocal holds an interest, was formed to develop a gas pipeline which will link Turkmenistan's vast Dauletabad gas field with markets in Pakistan and possibly India. The proposed 790-mile pipeline will open up new markets for this gas, traveling from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Multan in Pakistan. The proposed extension would move gas on to New Delhi, where it would connect with an existing pipeline. As with the proposed Central Asia oil pipeline, CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized Afghanistan Government is in place.

The Central Asia and Caspian region is blessed with abundant oil and gas that can enhance the lives of the region's residents, and provide energy for growth in both Europe and Asia. The impact of these resources on U.S. commercial interests and U.S. foreign policy is also significant. Without peaceful settlement of the conflicts in the region, cross-border oil and gas pipelines are not likely to be built. We urge the Administration and the Congress to give strong support to the U.N.-led peace process in Afghanistan. The U.S. Government should use its influence to help find solutions to all of the region's conflicts.

(Yikes! Crazy talk....)

U.S. assistance in developing these new economies will be crucial to business success. We thus also encourage strong technical assistance programs throughout the region. Specifically, we urge repeal or removal of section 907 of the Freedom Support Act. This section unfairly restricts U.S. Government assistance to the government of Azerbaijan and limits U.S. influence in the region.

Developing cost-effective export routes for Central Asian resources is a formidable task, but not an impossible one. Unocal and other American companies like it are fully prepared to undertake the job and to make Central Asia once again into the crossroads it has been in the past. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
_____________________________________________________

Interesting stories, yes?
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 326 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media IS Reporting
Posted: 11/23/2007 11:49:23 AM
Very true in all aspects. OBL had clear views of what he would accept from the US.
Weapons? Of course. Training? Why not. He had no intentions of ever using these assets to assist the US.

The same holds true for the current regime, in my opinion. They will continue
to stall any progress as long as they are allowed. We need someone to take control
of this mess, someone with the balls to clean house.

Of course, as dunnrich has said, we need a clarification of the situation on the
Pakistan border to make any headway at all. Otherwise it may take all of
twenty years, if ever, to resolve.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 313 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/21/2007 2:45:36 PM
Leaving now is not an option.
As I said before, Karzai is a lamb among wolves. He wouldn't last a week.
I think most of us recognise the need for intervention at this time.
Good things are happening, security is still an issue. We lost two brothers
this week, my thoughts and prayers to their family.

Hopefully the Afghan people can soon take control of their own destiny.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 311 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/21/2007 1:27:41 PM
^^^^^^^
Reminds me of the tourists who go to a foreign country and
assume if they yell loud enough and long enough, the people will understand them.

Your arguments are specious, spurious and highly suspect.
Your credibility is shot because of your inability to debate without bringing
personalities into it. You might consider restricting yourself to threads
about Canadian political history.

The issues in Afghanistan are serious enough I won't debate with you.
You're not worth my time.

To the other, more reasonable posters here I have one question.
What kind of time-frame are we looking at in Afghanistan? How many years
do you think we will have to prop this regime up? How long until
the Afghans have some chance at a free society?
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 303 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/21/2007 4:23:43 AM
dunnerich: Those are great stats. I work some stone myself, so I'm always
happy to see more rough come into the market.

Rocks are what these people have. Some of them are costly... and some of
them are priceless.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 295 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/20/2007 9:15:16 AM
gottobeme:
You show how much class you have everytime you open your mouth.
You seem unable to make a comment without insulting or belittling other posters.
That is my issue with you. Grow up and learn how to live without labelling people.

Also, try to remain on topic please. This thread is about Afghanistan... not what
happened 60 years ago in Europe, or 50 years ago in Korea.
Any comparisons are just a smokescreen to hide behind.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 35 (view)
 
The Car you prefer driving: What is it?
Posted: 11/19/2007 2:39:53 AM
No cars....Keep on truckin'!

My beast is a 56 Ford F100 and I love it. It's rough, tough, and rumbles.
Looks pretty sweet too. Only drive it about 8 months of the year
but I enjoy every minute. 289 4-barrel...done up. I have the occasional
qualm about driving such a gas hungry animal but I manage to get over it.....
It's all about smiles to the gallon, right?
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 28 (view)
 
The Big Lie: ‘Iran Is a Threat’
Posted: 11/19/2007 2:24:04 AM
Hey texCC....
You, better than most, should be smarter than to go into a gunfight armed
with a pea-shooter. Your facts are fallacies and your arguments are
smoke and mirrors.

MG has nailed it and emailed it: case closed.

Iran is in the grip of a quiet revolution for just the reasons cited. The younger
generation has become enamoured with western ways and that will not
change.
Unless, the US continues with its imperialistic policies and changes
their hearts and minds.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 24 (view)
 
How do you know when a POF member posts a fake pic?
Posted: 11/19/2007 2:00:51 AM
My pictures aren't quite current...(taken mostly in 2005, some 2006) but they represent me
as I look now. I can't imagine that people don't know they will be found out
when they go to meet their dates. I would think most people with fake pics have
no intention of ever meeting up with anyone.

That in itself is a little sad, but for these folks to go out into the world
and set themselves up for rejection is very sad indeed.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 280 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:08:26 AM
^^^
Being antagonistic or condescending is rarely effective.
( Just a heads-up for you. )

Use calm, cool logic and you may change peoples attitudes. You do
have some good points but the facts you provide are suspect.
There is no doubt the situation is dire, the fact is the coalition made some bad choices
in their partners there. There really is no reason that cannot change with
a little effort on our part.

Provide the people with an alternative to these jerks, and the means to keep them off
their backs and Afghanistan may yet become a free country.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Wow, Canada steps up and does the right thing for a change!
Posted: 11/18/2007 11:44:55 PM
ms. to republiman:

You are the archetype Ugly American, people like you are the reason the US
has such PR problems world-wide.
Ignore logic and hide behind your flag. Slag other nations and proclaim
your superiority.
A nation of slugs, led by a moron.

There, how does it feel to have your attitude turned upon you?

This is a Canadian site, if you don't like the opinions of the Canadians who post here...
go somewhere else. Lavalife awaits you.... Good luck with that.

I agree that people who committed to serve of their own free will should
be held accountable. The people who came here after being drafted into
the Vietnam war is another story.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Associated Press is DEAD,
Posted: 11/18/2007 11:18:49 PM
to acranger:

OK....you made me spew beer from my nose. Was that your intent?


In any case, you have made a valid point. The search for truth has always been a
dangerous occupation. These days, more than ever. The people whose interests
are vested in security and secrecy are willing to use the ultimate edit in
more countries than ever before.

The proliferation of citizen journalists is a very good thing for the people
who care about, and search for the truth.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 38 (view)
 
Guilty before proven guilty..happens in The West, too
Posted: 11/18/2007 10:33:27 PM
from Passionateman:

'You wanna see my face? Why? You into guys!!! Got some kind of fetish with hot guys? '

You must be joking......What kind of person would even think of posting that?


You sir, are an idiot. Not content with just being one, you seem to want to
show everyone how idiotic you really are.

Your excuses for the excesses committed in the name of Islam have been
expressed many times on these forums. It is a pathetic religion that can be twisted
to justify these abuses of human rights.
Perhaps she is guilty, certainly she was denied fair representation in their courts.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 277 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/18/2007 2:21:11 PM
I'm sorry, I don't follow your logic. Are you saying that if we support these people
they will help the Afghans form some kind of democracy?

I think that is a very shallow assessment of the situation. There is zero chance that these thugs will voluntarily give up the power they have fought for.
They intend to continue using the US, and the Coaltion to further their own ambitions.
Believe me, those ambitions do not include a liberal or democratic future for Afghanistan.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Why are we in Afghanistan
Posted: 11/18/2007 1:37:46 PM
Dunrich:
I'm a little surprised you have posted this without checking the facts.
The Taliban supported Bin Laden because he helped them finance their
bloody rule. Once they realized how deeply he had compromised their security
they tried to jettison him. Too little, too late. I don't believe they had any prior knowledge of his plans to attack the
US and if they had, I think they would have turfed him out.

They may be religious fanatics, but they are not stupid.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 276 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/18/2007 1:14:45 PM
^^^^
Excellent post. Well reasoned, and backed by irrefutable facts.
Another crisis for the Afghan people. Air-power, ground troops and
the pleading of do-gooders will not change a thing.

Only the will of the the people that actually live there can effect a lasting
change and improvement in their situation. Without the help of the coalition
I don't believe any such change can take place. The brutal power structure
that has been in place for generations would not allow it.

The people want freedom, dream of freedom, but have no hope of seeing it unless
the warlords and cynical profiteers are deposed. This is an area in which the
Coalition could make a real difference if they chose to. They seem to want to take the easy way out, make deals with
thugs and murderers, rather than take the moral high ground and bring help to courageous visionaries like Ms. Joya.

She has my vote too.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 270 (view)
 
Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/16/2007 4:55:16 PM
Glib words and personal attacks, why am I
not surprised? At least you took a stab at the topic this time.

I"m not so sure PTSD can be dismissed so easily. Perhaps you
can explain to us the extremely high suicide rate of the latest generation
of soldiers to endure the horror of war. Think of the wars
the Afghan people have endured.

There are many freedoms being restored in Afghanistan. At a very high cost.
However, the rights and freedoms of women there have
encountered some deep-rooted cultural resistance.
That is something that will change if the Afghans can be lifted from
the constant strife of brutal leaders.

I'm not at all convinced that is even possible. If and when Nato
pulls their forces out, what happens then?
Right now Karzai is a lamb among wolves. If the coalition left he
might last a week. I think we will be there for some years to come.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Brazil announces new oil reserves
Posted: 11/12/2007 5:00:04 AM
Sorry mfrotyl:
America USED to have oil. Now it has multi-national oil companies.
There are a few pockets still producing, Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico...still a little bit left
in Texas. That's pretty much it.

If overseas imports were curtailed for any reason, the US would
slide into into anarchy sooner than you might think.
You think the price of fuel is high now? Just wait.
If the current admin continues on its present course, you haven't
seen anything yet.

Blockage of the Straits of Hormouz anyone?
Certainly Iran has no intention of cutting off its nose to spite its face, but if attacked
may resort to such tactics.


Be happy a comparative ally has discovered these new fields, hopefully
they will be reasonable and give the US everything they want.
Really though, it's not a large enough discovery to invade over.

Besides, with all the US has cooking right now, I'm not convinced
they could do it.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 207 (view)
 
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/8/2007 3:39:20 AM
Motown guy: I'm not clear on how you had the idea
I thought Bush was well informed at all. I believe one
of my posts on that subject went something thing like this...

Thread- Did Bush know?
My first post.
"I don't think Bush would know his own name unless he
saw the label on his tighty whities"


There are certainly many conspiracies happening in the
world at this time. That one isn't really worthy of debate.

I do enjoy the various insights that yourself, dunnrich, ms squirrely
and others contribute. Some of the other posters on these forums are less
well informed, but no less verbose.

As far as solutions go, I have none to offer. I think the situation
in Pakistan is crucial to long term stability in the region and must
be addressed before any real progress can be achieved in
Afghanistan.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 194 (view)
 
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/5/2007 11:06:41 AM
It was an attack on the American people, on the very symbols that
define the United States of America. There is no doubt about that.

There is also very little doubt about who was responsible for it.
Bin Laden, and by proxy, the Taliban. (The role the Saudis, or Bush played is
something for the conspiracy theorists)

If that's the only reason for being there, I'd say the mission
has been a complete failure. That's the point I was trying to make.
The original objective has been morphed into something that is neither
fish nor fowl. Good things are happening for the Afghans in many ways.
Their standard of living is rising each day the Nato coalition stays
in country. More children are surviving. There are many positive
indications for the country as a whole.
However.

The mission was botched by the US not following through when they
had Al Queda and the Taliban on the run. They could have rolled them
up on the Pakistan border in the first few months. Lack of a cohesive plan
doomed the Nato Coalition to this bloody stalemate.

Iraq does figure in the equation Ms squirrely, if only because it robbed
the Afghan conflict of the resources needed to force a definitive victory
over the Taliban.

Big oil also plays a huge part in these conflicts, and anyone who denies it
is not reading deeply enough into the matter.

These are my opinions, I'm not really concerned about who may agree with me.
I'm sharing them because the question was asked.
I won't respond to some posters here anymore because of their caustic comments and abrasive attitudes.

A valid question deserves calm and well thought out responses, not knee-jerk
platitudes. Leave that job for Fox News, CNN and Rush Limbaugh.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 16 (view)
 
How dangerous is the Pakistan situation?
Posted: 11/4/2007 11:27:29 PM
MG: Great posts, as always. You know your history, both recent events and
possible futures. I did post saying that I hoped Bhutto could survive
long enough to make a difference in these difficult days.

It seems it's not enough just to survive, making changes in the
power structure is a huge key. Benazir is not able to make that that
step at this time, so she must be discounted as an effective
element of change. It's unfortunate, but nonetheless true.

A complex situation has become a nightmare. The planned alliance
between Bhutto and Musharaff is falling apart at the seams.
Whichever US policy guru thought this one up should be issued
an M-16 and sent to patrol the mean streets of Ramadi (totally pacified now, of course)

Pakistan has been a PR nightmare for the US from the beginning. This latest
attempt had high hopes for success on many levels.
Unfortunately, Musharaff views her as a threat, so I don't see
her having too many more birthday parties.

If something does happen to her, he will have to be even tougher on the
Waz. just for appearances sake.
So perhaps it's not a total loss for the US planners.
She and her family might feel differently.
One thing the US should know better than any other nation.

Democracy can not flourish under a cloud of doubt.
Truth, and ethical behaviour are paramount.
 roughpoet
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 188 (view)
 
Positive Things in Afghanastan- what Main Stream Media Is Not Reporting
Posted: 11/4/2007 9:57:55 PM
I do understand the Taliban were an affront to all the people and nations
of the world. The atrocities they committed in the name of Religion will
never be forgotten. Just the destruction of their cultural heritage made
me sick. Then we had footage of their horrible treatment of women, children
and all others who didn't follow the party line.

They were despicable leaders.
Does that give us the right to change them by military force?
I don't quite follow that logic.
The Taliban were despotic, cruel people.

So are the warlords of Somalia. Where is the urgency to help the
people of that beleaguered country? Where are the troops to
help the starving in Darfur? I'm sure I will be called for
obfuscation on that...oh well. The point stands alone.

Why then, after the hunt for Bin Laden had bogged down.....the reason
for being there, lest we forget. Why did we not just pack up and go home?
I know things were a little messed up, but the Taliban were gone.
Bin Laden was gone.....Nato felt bad about the whole thing and
wanted to make it all better? Nah, don't think so....

If we had left at that point, the Afghans might have had a chance to form
a real Democracy. As events have transpired, it seems that was
perhaps a pipe dream. The US/Nato alliance felt the power vacuum
needed filling, and they just happened to be there.
So long, Democracy. Nice to have known you....
 
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