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 Author Thread: People over 30 that are not taken - something wrong with them?
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 657 (view)
 
People over 30 that are not taken - something wrong with them?
Posted: 11/24/2011 10:50:14 PM
Absolutely... No matter how many inscrutable interactions I have with the opposite sex, my go-to conclusion is that I have misunderstood the social exchange.
And the bottom line is that I'm single over 30 because I have never managed mutual attraction with a woman since my senior year of high school. The constant in every scenario is me.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 17 (view)
 
32 and new to dating
Posted: 11/24/2011 10:42:00 PM
You look cute from your profile. I'm sure you'll do fine by making friends and putting yourself in situations where men can approach you. But do see a therapist about the self-worth issues. Not because they will prevent you from finding a man, but because they will likely cause you to find the wrong ones.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 305 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 11/17/2011 1:41:37 PM

Im not a prude and I dont deal well with people who are thats just me. Life is too short not to be openminded to a point


What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You could take a picture in a bikini if you so chose - my suggestion was just that it be done professionally. Get your story straight. First you accuse me of telling you to tart up, then you accuse me of being prudish. My suggestions were all about marketing, and not at all about the specific look you should aim for, let alone moral considerations of said look.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 303 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 11/17/2011 9:32:16 AM
You're right - I should've specified a *creative* photographer. That would've made all the difference.

"A pretty top" meant something attractive *to you*. Not a t-shirt. And where did I say no makeup? Which is it? Am I telling you to "cake it on," or am I telling you to go au-naturale? Is "caking it on" dressing up like a "barbie" or is leaving it off "boring?"

Once again - I was trying to give YOU some assistance. But more and more, your problems seem like a self-inflicted wound. Good luck.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 300 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 11/16/2011 9:49:25 PM
Interesting that you jump to the extreme of "caking your face with makeup." One wears makeup for photographs for the same reason that one wears makeup when appearing on television: bright lighting and the manner in which the camera records images do not always produce the most flattering results.

The reason I suggested getting someone skilled in camera work - particularly headshots - is that most people aren't "good with photos." That is why a good photographer will make the environment conducive to displaying your best qualities, and take many shots to get the ones that show you off well. Photos are not like seeing someone in real life. When you meet someone in person, you can see different expressions, see how animated they are, see them from a variety of angles, and so on. Photographs omit much of the information that we commonly use to determine how attractive a person is, and emphasize or even add information that we would otherwise disregard.

And again, I never suggested "showing nothing" nor "showing everything." Nor did I suggest looking like a barbie. Why are you jumping to such extremes? Tasteful, light makeup, hair styling, a pretty top, and a decent photographer who can help you take and select a good picture.

Remember - YOU are the one complaining about the kind of men who are messaging you. YOU are the one complaining that you'd rather not be single. I'm giving you constructive criticism, which you just blow off and misinterpret. You know what they say - do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 298 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 11/15/2011 11:45:35 PM
and redfox21 - give me a break. You are obviously very good looking, though you do fall into a "type." My guess is that any failure to perceive you as hot is due to your bearing, attitude, and social charms.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 297 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 11/15/2011 11:42:31 PM
domo31 - you might be well-served to put up a better profile picture. The Halloween picture is cute, but you have no pictures of your face with a decent resolution. Get your hair done, put on some makeup, and have someone (preferably with experience) take some headshots in good lighting. My guess is that you will have many, many more interested men.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 106 (view)
 
Should we, over 30, continue to wait for the one or adapt to what little is available?
Posted: 11/9/2011 7:02:04 PM

I just hate seeing so many guys staying lonely all their lives when it’s obvious it’s not by choice. You don’t have to be single all your life. It’s your own fault if you aren’t willing to expand your options to include woman outside the US matrix. And trust me, it’s not settling to do so, it’s just the opposite. You’ll be more likely to ask yourself “why didn’t I discover this secret sooner”.


And just hope that she doesn't bring her "brother" Vlad over from the old country and run off with him (and your money).
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 639 (view)
 
People over 30 that are not taken - something wrong with them?
Posted: 11/9/2011 11:52:15 AM

But I wonder why it seems so bad all the time to be single past 30?


Because fertility drops, and it is all the more difficult to find a compatible partner as more of one's peers have gotten married. The market is at its best the greater number of options are available.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 637 (view)
 
People over 30 that are not taken - something wrong with them?
Posted: 11/8/2011 8:57:47 PM
Not everyone over 30. Just my observations:

Men: consistently single over 30 means growing social isolation, an ever dwindling supply of confidence, loss of social skill, physical decline, and poorer hygiene.

Women: tend to be heavier, but also more demanding as they are looking for a more permanent relationship.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 104 (view)
 
Should we, over 30, continue to wait for the one or adapt to what little is available?
Posted: 11/8/2011 6:12:19 PM
First you have to define "settling." If settling means marrying someone you've given a fair shake to but you are just not compatible with: no. If "not settling" means rejecting anyone who doesn't fit your preconceived laundry list of ideal characteristics, you need to reevaluate. On the other hand, if you find someone you genuinely enjoy spending time with - a best friend - but romantic feelings are lacking, it might not be a bad idea to settle.

So many people reject potential mates over trivial imperfections. The classic pop culture depiction of this is in Seinfeld. The glorification of it is Sex and the City.

At any rate; if you are seriously concerned about so little being available, you really owe it to yourself to make learning about human relationships your second job for the foreseeable future. I am convinced that any man or woman who really works hard at it will have some amount of success.

Except for myself, of course; I'm just hopeless.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 82 (view)
 
Do women have to many options?
Posted: 11/8/2011 2:21:10 PM

Traditionally, men have been the pursuers. This is starting to change, but many men still get spooked when a woman does the pursuing, so it's going to change slowly.


Even if women don't actively pursue, it is helpful when they at least indicate interest in some way. Perhaps I am dense or just particularly unattractive, but I never get any signs from women that they are interested in me at all.

I'm not complaining - after all, I have no way of objectively measuring my observation - but I am pointing out that there is a middle-ground between actively pursuing someone and remaining aloof or even casually friendly.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 51 (view)
 
Do women have too many options?
Posted: 11/2/2011 7:39:14 PM

what's wrong with that?

shouldn't you be looking for confidence, stability and maturity in a woman too instead of Barbie?


Or in addition to!

At any rate, while the old trope about women being more interested in character than looks makes women look good, the reality is not so clear cut. Especially when we are talking about younger women. Guys also get a bad rap on this - the real men I know do date real women, not the top 5% (barbie types). What men lust over in a magazine is only a subset of what will turn them on in real life.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Do women have too many options?
Posted: 11/2/2011 1:27:25 PM
It is observation/anecdotal at best. I am unaware of serious scientific investigation on the matter.

If the statistics you are referring to are the ones I think you are referring to, the dating site in question does not provide rigorous statistical analyses. What they publish tends to be rather flawed.

But even if your argument were correct, your point and mine are not mutually exclusive.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 27 (view)
 
how long you think to be exclusive?
Posted: 11/1/2011 9:55:58 PM
No sooner than five years.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 30 (view)
 
Some things never change in the online dating world...
Posted: 11/1/2011 9:52:37 PM
There is a hard balance to be struck between writing enough to be interesting, and writing too much and becoming a bore or divulging too much personal information. There is obviously a vetting process when first corresponding; without initially sparking interest one will never get to an in-person meeting.

Personally, my experience in online dating taught me that I had just as little to say to potential online matches as I do to women I might encounter in person.

Maybe you should try being light and fun in the online communication; or find someone who is successful and ask to see how he goes about it.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 45 (view)
 
Do women have too many options?
Posted: 11/1/2011 9:42:26 PM

i've gone to LOTS of in-person parties and events from this site and have only spoken to other women while the men in my age range spend the night chatting up and dancing with the Pretty Young Things. speak to any of them and they look at you like a piece of gum stuck to the bottom of their shoe.


You seem to be an attractive woman for your cohort. But when men are talking about women's options, it is generally ceteris paribus. Men tend to die earlier than women, and also before their wives, so single men in retirement homes are scarce and disproportionately desirable. I point out this extreme only to emphasize that the economic realities of dating change over time and circumstances. James Flynn makes an interesting case, for example, that in the African American community, the marriage market is much poorer for black women, largely as a result of increased incarceration rates for black men. One consequence is that desirable black men enjoy many relationship options (but this diverges far from Flynn's point, which is really about something like institutional racism).

Middle class men in their mid twenties to thirties, of any race, are in a strange position. There are many desirable men (the top 10 or 20%) that women in their cohort could choose to date. These desirable men disproportionately date probably the top 30 or 40% of women. Women younger than 30 are much more willing, on average, to date more desirable men briefly and in succession than a less desirable man for any length of time. So the average man can either date someone less attractive - using the term "attractive" loosely to cover physical appearance as well as education, employment, and so on - within his cohort, or he can see if he can do better elsewhere, such as with older women.

These less attractive men do themselves a great disservice by making themselves even less desirable in the way many tend to handle the situation. It is a vicious circle.

And there is the problem that having no access to what one believes to be reasonably attractive sexual or relationship partners generally does not improve a man's social skills. I would not be surprised if the idealized partner of such men tended to be invariable; frozen, as it were, at the moment in time when their longing for a partner and dissatisfaction with the available options (if any) were at a peak.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 36 (view)
 
Do women have to many options?
Posted: 10/31/2011 8:45:02 PM

Since when is it rejecting a guy if you catch him looking? He didn't say anything, so there was no rejection.


His point is that psychologically, negation and rejection are the same for the erotic object. The point is not that a woman *should* throw herself at the ogler, but that acknowledging and then denying his advance serves to reinforce her habit of rejection.

It is probably reasonable. Anyone who finds himself or herself to be desired, whether for money, looks, charm, or whatever, must respect the economics of the situation. And the most abundant evidence most of us have of our perceived value is indirect.

Of course, if this be true, it ought to be a lesson to men in general to cease leering.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 24 (view)
 
Do women have too many options?
Posted: 10/30/2011 12:34:23 AM
I suppose the original question as well as several of the responses may be summarized thus: "in a world in which women have choices, why would a woman choose me?"

In a way, this is an unwitting restatement of the famous paradox of choice; when presented with too many options, or too much freedom, many people will fail to choose at all, or do so haphazardly. And I think this is the meaning that several posters wish to convey. They believe they would make good romantic partners even if they fail to convey such qualities to potential mates, or if women, inundated with novel, possibly better options simply lose interest.

I don't doubt that men and women both turn down potentially well-matched relationships in pursuit of greener pastures. Still, this is the world we live in, and many people do manage to find one another and get married. Ultimately it is each person's responsibility to make him or herself attractive and desirable to the opposite sex. As another poster pointed out, it is hard to imagine a different arrangement that still respected personal freedoms.

If you honestly believe that masturbation and tolerance of lesbianism lowers your value as a man, you are probably right. You should either do something about it or learn to live with the reality.

I should also point out that there is a substantial difference between "buying in" and "being invested." That is, the threshold for winning over a woman may seem unfairly high, but once you have done so, many are loathe to dump the tanking stock, as it were. An unsurprising feature of human nature.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 240 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:00:24 AM
You hear about problems with "Russian brides" (fraud, etc). I wonder how many of them get here and legitimately realize that the man they married is not within their league in American society.

As to the OT:
You can date as long as you like. You can continue dating into your 70s or 80s, if you live that long. Often life is about compromises; if you meet someone in your 40s, you will never be able to have the "young couple experience" with that person. It is up to the individual whether such compromises are acceptable. As I've said before, I don't find the context of post 30s dating very appealing.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 315 (view)
 
are women leery of guys over 30 who have never been married?
Posted: 2/11/2011 9:58:01 PM
I think women should give me the benefit of the doubt; maybe I'm perfectly willing to commit!
Maybe I'm just single because I'm not particularly attractive and have neither the money nor the interpersonal skills to compensate!

Ever think of that???
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 104 (view)
 
Is the fairytale impossible after 30?
Posted: 1/30/2011 2:05:23 PM
jrodriguez81:
Probably because most people never expected to have to consciously conduct a search for a suitable partner; because sex and romance is visible through media to the greatest extent in history, and people judge themselves by what they perceive to be social norms as depicted in the media; people are more isolated, have fewer extended social networks with meaningful connections, and are desperate for not only romantic love but emotional support from friends; because biology has not changed in spite of any societal focus on careerism, and people still want to have children while they are able; because many people would prefer not to be in their 60s when their children graduate from college; because people think that by thirty they should be building a life with another person, rather than waiting to meet someone.

That's off the top of my head.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 102 (view)
 
Is the fairytale impossible after 30?
Posted: 1/27/2011 9:37:53 PM
As one gets older, one's options narrow.
The "fairytale" is only available to those whose preconceptions either align with or are flexible enough to accommodate the available choices.
 avatarak_
Joined: 12/8/2010
Msg: 137 (view)
 
At what age do you Just Give Up?
Posted: 1/17/2011 11:38:13 PM
I'm almost 31. I have also given up.

When I was in high school, I assumed that I would meet someone in college, fall in love, and get married. Despite my best efforts, I practically did not date in college. I have not had much success dating out of college, either; instead, I have had a litany of bizarre encounters with which I will not bore you here. Which is to say that I once was quite open to the possibility of romance.

Everyone must decide the extent to which one will compromise to avoid dying alone. I realize that most people are simply interchangeable, despite romantic notions to the contrary; as such, I likely fall within a standard deviation of "average" on a bell curve that plots fitness for relationships. Such knowledge does not inspire me to try to find a woman I can convince that I am either better than I am or as good as she can realistically hope to get. Worse, the time is past for me to have the kind of relationship that I unrealistically desired in my youth, and I find the implicit context of post-30 relationships simply unappealing.

I think that many of us, as we get older, tend to substitute work or other interests for interpersonal relationships. If one does do that, one must also question whether one is then willing to put forth the effort to allow another person to not only disrupt, but take part in and become a priority in one's life. I suppose that I am not.

I also try to accept that my own poor choices have lead me to this point; I accept the reality as a consequence of my actions. Natural consequences are different in kind from retribution; but psychologically they have the same effect.
 
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