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 Author Thread: why do people cheat?
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 40 (view)
 
why do people cheat?
Posted: 9/29/2008 2:33:27 PM
Why does anyone buy into the fairy tale about "Happily Ever After" and assume that man is a monogamous creature? Where is the proof? The science would seem to indicate otherwise.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Brenda Martin in mexican jail
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:34:59 AM
All travellers must abide by the laws of the jurisdiction that they are in. Common sense suggests that one inform himself of the risks that they may be undertaking simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

However, the treatment of Canadian (and American) travellers and tourists that have become victims of violence, or involved in some incident, while in Mexico suggests that there is a general lack of respect for Canadians. If one does the crime they should do the time. However, we should all press for due process of law to be upheld in a fair manner, if one has been accused of a criminal act.

I suggest that all Canadians re-examine their choice of vacation destination and boycott Mexico for awhile. There are plenty of alternative destinations at comparable prices. I personally will go so far as to boycott KAHLUA (my favorite beverage, sniff) if that helps PEDRO get the message.

Canadian citizens (and Americans) can send a message to all Banana republics (does Mexico have bananas?) and the like, with THEIR WALLETS, by refusing to support their businesses. Hitting them in the wallet may do more good than our political stooges seem to accomplish.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 51 (view)
 
Love and Trust: are they really connected?
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:43:52 AM
You can love people that you do not trust. You can trust people that you no longer love. For example, many women like bad boys, and although they may actually retain poorly thought out notions about changing them, they instinctly know they can't.

In a relationship where trust has been battered about, love can remain but the relationship will likely change. Still, some form of relationship can survive (as long as the parties involved do not detest the sight of each other), but the deep love romantic relationship might be gone.

Not everything is carved and stone, or is black or white. What works for one couple may not work for another.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Love and Trust: are they really connected?
Posted: 9/18/2007 9:32:40 AM
eric @37,

For the OPs question:

"But can you trust a man or a woman you do not really have, or you have lost, feelings for in a formal relationship?"

Why does the certain inner muscle involve learning how to read other people's intentions. That is really just life experience and accumulated wisdom is it not?

What should be developed is one's inner character that governs one's own behavior- the only person that we have control over and who we are ultimately responsible for.

Going back to the OPs question above, the question should be "are you trustworthy in a relationship where
you do not really have, or you have lost, feelings for your partner in a formal relationship?"

In that situation, where only you know what your true feelings are, only you can decide if your actions are honest and honourable and in the interest of both parties. Does trust require one to be honourable enough to be truthful to a partner where there are no longer feelings, freeing him/her from investing emotional energy in a path where there will be nothing really returned?
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 27 (view)
 
Love and Trust: are they really connected?
Posted: 9/18/2007 9:12:30 AM
Melo @message 31

"...without trust, a relationship can't survive. "

I see the question as "can trust survive when the love that is it's foundation has crumbled"?

Can a relationship survive without love? Without love, is trust worth preserving ? I think so.

People go on without love, for the kids, etc., but they are essentially just 2 people living under one roof, possibly even living separate lives. Only they can answer why they do so, but as long as they do, trust is still necessary, even if they are "doing it for the kids".

In that situation, one must act in a manner that still shows respect to one's partner and attempt to retain some positive and honest level of communication in order to preserve some level of trust, even if both parties know in their hearts that the level of love between them is not what it once was.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 134 (view)
 
Does True love Exist?
Posted: 9/6/2007 12:15:39 PM
Now you are talking about a double standard aren't you. Since women were property, they would not have been granted the same rights as men.

What I said was that a man could be with more than one woman.

The point of my post was that one should not always put so much weight on a tainted document like the bible, tainted because man got his grubby hands in there to add his own personal agendas.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 132 (view)
 
Does True love Exist?
Posted: 9/6/2007 9:49:01 AM
At the time of the bible, the word adultery only referred to stealing another man's wife, considered property. It was not saying anything about monogamy or faithfulness. It was socially acceptable for married men to be with single ladies or concubines.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 131 (view)
 
Does True love Exist?
Posted: 9/6/2007 7:58:13 AM
QueenofCups1,

Do you think that love was meant to last forever? Love based on physical attraction and infatuation was designed primarily to lead to procreation and propagation of the species. Formal coupling was institutionalized, primarily by church elders, to ensure that infants were cared for and to provide the basic framework for sharing of marital assets, although the wife was often considered one of them.

2000 years ago one was married in the early teenage years and life expectency was about age 30. Is it realistic to expect love to last 40-50 years now?

Anthropologists today have discovered that human females have an instinct to have a new mate every 4 years, that we have a biological need for diversity. Do you think that we can deny our inherent design forever?

That is not to say that love can not blossom in long-term relationships and continue to grow.

Those couples that are true companions and best friends can experience love borne of mutual respect, honesty and admiration and can experience an ever deepening love that many of us probably do not get a chance to experience. Perhaps intimate love fades, but other levels of love can continue to flourish.

Another factor is that so few people are unable to give love unconditionally, or without expectation of something in return, or recognition. Couples lose the friendship and respect aspect of their relationship quickly when dwelling on trivial things, having to be right, putting their partner down and scapegoating because of their own insecurities, frustrations with life, or they are in a rut.

Steven Covey reminds us in his writing that people think that love is only a feeling, but it is an action verb in itself, requiring deliberate actions on our part to give to our partner. If we give to our partners continually, perhaps love would have more chance to sustain itself.

Perhaps that way of thinking is something to remember for unconditional love to exist ? Is this the real form of "true love", and even if it is not returned to you, is there any excuse for any one of us not to continually give it to those around us?



 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 151 (view)
 
Soulmates? Do they / can they exist??
Posted: 8/25/2007 8:06:28 AM
I tend to think along the lines of soulful union (message 125).

I think that our spirits are independent entities that are neither male or female in gender. Regression studies by hypnotists have found that people have been the opposite sex in previous lives. So what would be the basis of such a soul mate? Obviously not male-female bonding in the sense that we know it.

I went through a number of Sylvia Browne books a few yeats back and her opinion was that soul mates do not exist, but kindred spirits do. Kindred spirits can experience multiple lives together and that may explain why you meet someone who it just feels that you have known them forever.

Perhaps a relationship with a kindred spirit in really the kind of special and magical one that some people experience and have written about.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 34 (view)
 
Could someone be in love with two people at the same time?
Posted: 8/3/2007 10:07:54 AM
Having been there a few times I can agree that it is possible, and not easy to deal with because of the expectations of those involved and society.

What I did learn from that is that the heart has infinite capacity for love. It is not necessarily a zero-sum game, which would mean that love for a second love interest reduces love for your current partner. It is possible to romantically love different people differently, in different ways, for different reasons. It makes sense to me because it is basically impossible to meet all of your needs with one partner.

While some people are hard-wired for monogamy, others are not, and openly living a polyamous lifestyle successfully. While they often are content with it, those around them seem to have more trouble with it.

I have read that a major goal of most world religions is unconditional love. Why is it that when in a conventional relationship we are placed in a position where are partner says " prove your love to me by not caring for any other?" That's it then, a condition imposed on love, and really borne from one or more partner's insecurity than any other reason.

It takes more courage, honesty, integrity and communication to live this lifestyle than conventional relationships, and I have concluded that is not for the feint of love, or character.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 5 (view)
 
Why do guys always want to be friends with me
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:34:24 AM
OP (Message 3);

That may be how you perceive yourself. How do the guys see you though? Do you present as the kind of girl that guys would want as a "girl friend"?

If you behave like "one of the guys" then you will be treated like one of the guys. If you accept and condone alcohol driven loud/loutish male behavior (nothing wrong with that in its place), then guys will like that because they see you as just accepting them for themselves.

If you want someone to see you as a girly girl who happens to like sports, rather than a tomboy who can happen to clean up pretty well, then you must see that as your identity and act accordingly. You will then attract guys who see you that way first. There are lots of decent guys that are not big drinkers that are sports fanatics. (Hint: you probably will not find them in bars)

Your pic does nothing to convey an image of a girly girl. You do not have to be the barbie doll, but do you have fem hair? The hat does nothing for you really, and not trying to criticize;you have a ton of potential. You may think it is part of your image, but it's marketing really. It's all about putting your best features forward, not hiding them.

This does not mean you should not be yourself. Only a slight change in self-attitude on your part might attract guys who see and like all of your qualities.

Just my 2cs.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Why can't people just accept the Truth?
Posted: 7/6/2007 8:55:03 AM
QTpye16 -message 16

"Sex is not included in my definition of a friendship....it's strictly platonic (unless I choose to take it there)".

Your definition is exactly right and is what most men need to learn. Did you know that that is exactly how it works even in the lifestyle (swinging)? Women control all interaction and no means no.

My liberal definition would say that sex is ok even between friends if it is mutually consensual, but I generally try and avoid that because many women also demonstrate emotional control issues in order for that line to be crossed, (they lay some kind of claim on you), so I guess it works both directions.

I have some terrific and beautiful lady friends who know that I won't cross a line with them and the mutual respect and friendship enriches my life in ways other than gaining sexual conquests. Too bad many people ruin it for themselves.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 26 (view)
 
When hearts get broken!!!!!
Posted: 7/6/2007 4:49:15 AM
In any relationship, a partner should be interested in spending time with you because they want to, not because they HAVE to. If there are telltale signs early on in a relationship, do you think things are going to get better, or worse later on?

The lack of honesty and a lack of accountability for bad behavior is generally manifested as symptoms of a declining society, such as corruption by our leaders and bureaucrats, poor service in business, and a general lack of decency in how we treat each other.

If you have the integrity to muster some personal standards, live your life accordingly.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Why can't people just accept the Truth?
Posted: 7/5/2007 11:05:19 AM
OP (QTpye16 ),

As a few have already mentioned, these guys are not only selectively hearing, they are being dishonest with themselves, as well as with you. However, I think there is a touch of "JERK" factor that seeps in when one is slightly removed from reality, and when combined with infatuation or desparation, it can be overbearing.

The truth is hard for many to swallow when it involves one's own inadequacies and faults. I would rather spend time with someone who acknowledges their shortcomings and can admit mistakes, then someone who blames others for when things go badly. That is not to say that that they should be negative towards themselves and clearly have issues with self-worth and self-image. Those types can drain you and bring you down with them. One can be positive about things in life without pretending that they are perfect and that everything is rosy. Only then can they take responsiblity for their lives and be a REAL person.

Also, never rule someone out because of age. Great friendships can still emerge. Obviously, a great friendship will not happen if both parties are not respecting each other.

Besides, you think you having problems with dishonesty because you run into a few jerks? The whole world thinks that man is a monogamous creature, when the science clearly says otherwise. How are we going to deal with that issue, LOL?
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 84 (view)
 
Infidelity should be a criminal offence!!!
Posted: 6/28/2007 7:02:15 AM
Listen "Dork"-storm;

As in the case of Mary Magdalene, when Jesus said "let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone".

So is that you- are you perfect? Or just a self-righteous hypocite? What would give you, or anybody, the right, to stone anybody else? You realize that such zealotry puts you in the realm of TALIBAN justification for their behavior!
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 81 (view)
 
Infidelity should be a criminal offence!!!
Posted: 6/26/2007 12:46:31 AM
Hate to break it to you Call Me an Angel, but when the 10 commandments were written, the word adultery meant only that a man could not steal another man's wife. It was common acceptable practice for married men to have relationships outside of marriage with concubines, single women etc.. Wives were considered marital assets; property of the husband. So at what point was it "always" a crime.

In what way are civil ceremonies made before God? They are legally binding, but so is common law after a few years, without any ceremony at all.

What is more, if a marriage is truly bad, would a caring God want it's participant's spirits to whither and die from misery and unhappiness, and the negative effects to spill over onto the children? If it is binding in the eyes of God, there could be no resolution of those wretched marriages could there? People change, make mistakes and stuff happens. I don't think it is God's intention to punish us indefinitely for these things.

**************

Since the estimated rate of infidelity for both sexes is about 50%, I would say that we would have to build a lot more jails if cheating were a criminal offense. And wow, what would happen when your kid's teacher or your physician, lawyer or tax accountant were all hauled off and jailed. Are we sure that we would want to open that can of worms? Careful what you wish for. Cheating is not the problem in a marriage, just a symptom of a bigger problem. That does not even include one that most people are in denial about; that man is not a monogamous creature by nature.

Since the biochemical power of attraction lasts only about 4 years, perhaps marriage should only be for a 5 year term, with an option to re-new for another 5, if things are going well. Otherwise, shake hands, divide marital assets, arrange child custody rights and support and move on.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 29 (view)
 
WHY ARE PEOPLE AFRAID TO FALL IN LOVE NOWADAYS???
Posted: 6/25/2007 9:56:13 AM
B&H,

A failed relationship can hurt as much as the death of a cherished loved one, with the extra trappings of side order of guilt and blame assumption (if only I had done _______ differently, if only I had been more ______). It can take some people a few years to get over a failed marriage, even if they know it was a bad relationship.

But is part of the pain due to unrealistic expectations? Why do we assume that we can "make" anyone else love us forever, when the science is now in and shows the probability of that happening to be quite low.

Sure break-ups hurt, but there is some part of love that is given freely to others and without expectation, that makes you feel better about yourself. That is why we must, as humans, keep trying. If not with a main partner, then there are always friends, family or neighbors that can use a little emotional support.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 27 (view)
 
unable to message men w/the no pic no message setting?
Posted: 6/23/2007 11:39:37 AM
If anyone is unable or unwilling to ask the simple question, " can you provide a pic", even privately, how would that impact on communication skill level as potential dating material.

For all the queries asking " where are all the good catches?", if people are too lazy to separate the chaff from the wheat or skim the fat from the cream, by making a little effort, then they deserve what they get.

Isn't anything worthwhile worth working for?

OP, those that take the effort to contact you will win the prize, if you truly are one. Everything happens for a reason.

On the other hand, why don't you just state in your profile that you will consider providing a private pic to sincere email requests?
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 56 (view)
 
Sex longer than a minute, does it exist...?
Posted: 6/21/2007 1:43:42 PM
Forgot to mention that I have heard the figure of 9.8 minutes as the average length of time per episode, according to one study. I would still place that number in the quickie category myself, but infinitely better than 1-2 minutes, I would say.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 54 (view)
 
Sex longer than a minute, does it exist...?
Posted: 6/21/2007 11:20:12 AM
Angel,

While there may be physiological reasons for male sexual dysfunction, (general poor health or condition, diabetes, circulatory), psychological factors are often a bigger factor. Some men feel pressure ( coupled with other daily stresses) to perform for new partners, which can feel like an audition instead of a shared experience. Don't judge on a one-shot deal, pardon the pun. If your partner has not been active in a while they may be just too "gosh darn happy" to be invited to the dance with a partner as attractive as yourself, and not be able to contain himself.

Finding a great partner includes finding someone who is on the same wave length mentally and physically as yourself, in regards to sexuality. If, however you find someone who is right in every other way, there are techniques that can help men develop greater staying power and you may want to learn about them.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 75 (view)
 
Infidelity should be a criminal offence!!!
Posted: 4/27/2007 1:48:11 PM
Maybe in Fairytale land, LOL.

This thread does not seem to be making a distinction between adult play and intimacy.

If one looks at the biology if the human species, we crave biological diversity but are forced to conform to social institutions that are against our nature. Even when you are deeply in love with someone, you know that there is not some little switch that goes off in your head that prevents you from being attracted to someone else of the opposite sex.

The intense biochemical agents in our bodies that trigger physical attraction to our mates tend to fade after 4 years or so, and if their is not at least the semblance of respect and friendship left, a couple may be in trouble.

People often think of love as only a feeling, forgetting that is an action verb that signifies affirmative giving, sharing and nurturing. A couple is lucky if there is a basis for a deepening love over time that is based on mutual support of their individual growth as human beings.

So much of conventional monogamy is not about love, but ownership and personal insecurity.

Women were considered marital possessions and much of our thinking is a carry-over to this day.

The bottom line is, people change, stuff happens, people get in ruts as individuals and as couples, and people are very often in denial about what their real needs and desires really are as they go through life.

Affairs are often symptoms of a problem in a relationship, not the problem.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 453 (view)
 
Can you cheat on a person you are truly in love with?
Posted: 2/9/2007 5:52:44 AM
This whole thread is based solely on the assumption that one can only love one person at a time.

What if you come to love another person while still knowingly loving your partner? Stuff happens and life's circumstances sometimes leads to this inadvertantly. I know of no little switch in your head that turns off when you become involved with a person that prevents you from being attracted to other persons of the opposite sex. It may not happen during the intense, euphoric front end of the relationship, more likely a few years in, but the brain masks the faults of our mates in early stages to promote mating rituals and later we see our partners more realistically. At that point we are subject to the "grass is greener" syndrome.

What if you love someone dearly without sexual relations? Is that cheating? Counsellors call it an emotional affair. That can be far more devastating to a main relationship than a recreational sex between a partner and someone else.

Relationships are extremely complex and the people in them are constantly changing. There are no hard and fast rules that apply to everyone, except in fairy tale romances.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 376 (view)
 
Can you cheat on a person you are truly in love with?
Posted: 1/14/2007 2:29:02 PM
Jerry has brought up a very common situtation where sex drives are different for each partner. Perhaps your partner has lost interest in sex over the years. Is the other person supposed to pretend they are now living in a monastery? Sorry,Jerry, can't agree on the hooker solution though; too many risks involved.

Sex is a need, (is it still on Maslow's heirarchy-haven't looked for 10 years or so) so what is the partner still interested in sex supposed to do? We have such hang-ups in North America about separating sexuality from intimacy, that the poor person without a willing partner is supposed to suck it up for the rest of his adult life, in the name of the fairy tale romance!

Cheating implies interaction with another person without acknowledgement or consent from your partner.

Since we have a natural drive for biological diversity, a better question would be, can you be involved with someone else physically and still love your partner?

What if you love two people at the same time? What happens then?

The goal of all spiritual movements in the world is to attain unconditional love. Why is it when we enter a relationship that our partners insist "prove to me that you love me by not caring for any others?", immediately placing a condition on their love.

Why is fidelity the currency of love? What does it prove? I define loyalty in a relationship (any kind) as if you need help, call me, I will be there for you.

Unfortunately, people see such issues only with their own insecure eyes.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 41 (view)
 
Would you rather be 'right' or be 'happy'?
Posted: 12/19/2006 6:00:27 AM
I remember a friend of mine who happened to be a very smart senior,who once told me that "only a fool is always right".

In computer security, business and politics, I see overwhelming evidence that more often than not, people choose the easy way instead of the right way.

Relationships are situational and the players complex and unique. What works for one couple may not work for others.

If you are able to give up your extrinsic need to be right for the sake of peace and harmony, then there is nothing wrong with that , and there may be happiness to be gained from your personal decision. In this case, you may have done the easier thing AND the right thing. Some people could throw the entire relationship into the garbage can, simply because they have to be right. If it is over something trivial, then it is all a waste of time and energy.

You may also internally take satisfaction that you know you are really right, and that your personal maturity is something commendable, because you have sacrificed your need to be right for the overall better outcome of peace and harmony.

If you are juvenile enough to have to always be right, then you had better be with someone laid back and mature. If you are with someone who has to be always right, then you have to recognize that you have to be mature enough to always give in and be prepared to not have a say in things, because you are married to Mr. or Mrs. Perfect.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Getting up earler and earlier
Posted: 12/19/2006 5:40:17 AM
Getting up early is not a problem in itself if your feel good. You may be spending just as much time in deep (REM) sleep. Sleeping less at night is not a bad thing, and a mid-day nap may invigorate you and make you more efficient overall. Just try and use your increased time in a positive way instead of worrying about it.

Getting up and not feeing rested is a problem. There are many possible contributory factors.

It is true that there are physiological changes taking place in your body as it ages, there are many lifestyle factors in combination with those changes that may be more responsible. Certain foods and alcohol may affect you differently.

Stress and busy brain syndrome may prevent you from going back to sleep after that early morning constitutional in the bathroom, even if you go to bed exhausted. Try and clear your head before bed, make a plan for the next day and stick to it, and learn to worry about only things that you have control over.

You may not be physically active enough to center your circadian rhythms thoughout those changes.

 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 102 (view)
 
Why do you think relationships fall apart?
Posted: 10/30/2006 8:53:31 AM
Something I forgot to mention is what the author Steven Covey wrote in his best seller the Seven Habits of Highly Successful People. Many of the posts can be covered by his point that love is an "action verb". We are swept away with felt love and the biochemical changes in our body that begins with attraction and infatuation, but as it fades away in approximately 4 years or so, partners that have failed to demonstrate love through actions (including communication), will lack a basis for respect, friendship and trust, and the relationship will eventually will fail to sustain itself in spirit, piece of paper or children withstanding, or not.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 85 (view)
 
Why do you think relationships fall apart?
Posted: 10/21/2006 6:57:26 AM
Some wise words from captainbaud (message 116).

"Felt love" is biochemical and it does fade. Studies indicate that most women have a biological drive to mate with a new partner every 4 years. Man is not a monogamous creature by biological nature; by majority, we have an innate need for biological diversity that cuts across all cultures, but which is tempered by social institutions such as church doctrine.

The need for a friendship and respect basis is also correct but I would add that couples get into ruts, as a couple, and as individuals. To be a happy person one must continually grow, or else one is eventually disatisfied with what one sees when he or she looks in the mirror. If you do not love yourself it becomes harder to love others, or perhaps it is easier to love others when you take it easier on yourself. If you perceive that your relationship holds you back from personal growth you become resentful. Since many people are of the mistaken notion that if you are couple you must do everything together, and be joined at the hip, it is easy to start eliminating choices that must be approved by both partners, and possibly withholding opportunities for growth that one might value and even need for personal growth.

That relationship based on friendship and respect will be supportive and nurturing, encouraging each other to seek personal growth activities that might be shared on some level, but not necessarily done together. The opposite pattern is too often seen, unfortunately, and that is the pattern of ownership and control, and interference with a partner's choices for purely selfish reasons. Without additional opportunities for stimulation and growth from outside the relationship at the individual level, the couple bond becomes increasingly stale over time until the couple, like the individuals in it, are in a rut also. Some times the patterns are so ingrained that there it is impossible to climb out of these ruts as long as people are still in the relationship. You know the rest.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 20 (view)
 
HELPPPPPPPPPPPP!
Posted: 10/13/2006 6:21:16 AM
OP,

You say you are not one for competition, but without even one date, you are not even in the game. Why would you limit dates to someone who only may only be "the one". You can not possibly know that until some sustained dating, and neither can Mr. Right. Your only expectation for a first date should be to go out and have an enjoyable evening or time, (ruling out obvious bad matches of course), not whether this chap is marriage material. After date one, you should only thinking about whether there will be a second date. If it does not work out, then you may make a new friend, which is not a bad thing. But if you only date people that might only be candidates for long-term partners, then you may not be having many dates.

In the same way, this fellow might find that you are more interesting and exciting to him and he may drop the other ladies. Sometimes you end up with someone who is nothing like you thought you wanted in a mate, and limiting your options can eliminate many possible pleasant surprises.


Whether you realize it or not, even if you have eventual committment in a relationship, you are always in competition with the rest of the women in the world, and no piece of paper or a ring on your fingers guarantees that exclusivity, and nothing stays the same forever. Everything in life is a test and involves risk. Sometimes it hurts, but we learn more by taking risks and learning from mistakes. But the biggest mistake one can take is to fear taking a chance, doing nothing, and denying ourselves opportunities that could be good. If you limit your thinking, you limit your choices.

By the way, who ever said that you have to give someone your undivided attention at any time? You don't multi-task at anything else in life? Would that not interfere with personal choices and growth, secondary friendships and relationships? I think you should be with someone because you want to be, not because you feel you have to be, and vice versa, and that is what your thinking leads to, IMHO.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 31 (view)
 
Find a date at 43 and 230 pounds!
Posted: 10/4/2006 9:37:50 PM
To the OP,

You have choices! There are always choices.

You can do nothing, and hope for the best. There are men who simply like big women. You may meet one. You may also meet someone able to love you unconditionally.

In the event that you do not meet someone, why not develop a network of good friends that you can lean on throughout life. Sometimes friendships develop into something more unexpectantly.

You might indulge in self inspection and examine why you are big. Was eating an escapist activity to provide comfort from a bad relationship? Do you eat because your self-esteem is damaged, for any reason? Are your expectations for life low? Are you depressed?

Do you think you would get more out of life if your health improved and you had more energy?

Do it for yourself. Don't even think about a man until you reach your goals. It took you years to get that way, it will take years to revert back, and no one can do it for you.

I recommend Body for Life by Phillips, a good self-help book that has lots of food for thought.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 34 (view)
 
KINDRED SPIRITS..........what does that term mean to you?
Posted: 9/27/2006 6:55:38 AM
I agree liv2222,

A kindred spirit is someone with who you are immediately in the same comfort zone and on the same wavelength with, as you would be with a lifelong friend, even if you you just met them. Many of the spiritual writers, Sylvia Browne etc., say that kindred spirits are someone one knew in a previous life, although neither party may be aware of those previous connections. Thus, you have an existing spiritual bond.

I think it is naive to think that you will find a single "soulmate". Those couples that do find great partners are undoubtedly hooking up with kindred spirits, but not soulmates.

One can ultimately "marry" one of hundreds of people in this world, if the opportunity to meet them presents. They can not ultimately all be soulmates.

When someone tells me they have met their soulmate, I usually just laugh and say that you may not have the same opinion in even 5 years, let alone 40. It is amazing the number of people that say that and they are in the divorce courts 5 years later.

Long live the fairy tale romance, while it lasts anyway!
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 75 (view)
 
is it realy that bad to cheat on your partner
Posted: 6/3/2006 9:15:06 AM
Are you asking the right question(s) fairytails?

What is it you are really asking? You seem to have found out that your bf is interested in other sexual relationships and that to you this is a negative thing. Yet you wonder if some kind of revenge motivated act on your part would make you feel better. Does this sound like a relationship based on honesty, trust and good communication?

Since man is generally not a monogamous creature, no matter how much wishful thinking we do, the question is, do you accept this behavior in a bf or not? If not, perhaps you should move on. If you have an inner core belief that fidelity is important in a relationship, then you just need to find someone who shares this view, for stepping out on him for the wrong reasons will only tend to make you feel worse about yourself.

Do you have to have a bf in order to think that you are worthy as a person? If you are in a relationship that is negative or goes against your core beliefs, or makes you feel like a lessor person, then get out. You are better off by yourself. Never settle for less than you feel you deserve, but know what that is, by giving it real thought.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 66 (view)
 
Are you threatened by a Bi girlfriend?
Posted: 5/10/2006 6:19:13 PM
I always thought it would be nice to have a bi girlfriend because rather than keeping my thoughts about another attractive woman to myself, while in her company, I would be able to express and share them with her openly. For example, what a beautiful woman, what a hardbody, what gorgeous skin, hair or whatever.

Even if she did not agree with my taste, I have always wondered if it would be easier to have a higher level of honest communication with someone who was bi than someone straight, who might, if feeling insecure, see the woman who was the target of the comment to be competition. That being said, the other woman might be perceived as competition for both parties, if one was bi.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 150 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 5/4/2006 7:04:10 AM
"My opinion,though, is that it is just some casual swinging"

You are entitled to your opinion, and I would not deny anyone that right. What you do not have the right to do is spread misinformation, myth and hearsay in the name of opinion. I am just calling you on it that is all. Poly does not involve casual sex at all. You can think of it as fidelity between a small group of people or with more than one partner. You seem to purposely miss my point that poly relationships can be emotion based but not be sexual at all. That is well documented in the literature. Purposely and conveniently ignoring that fact to support a pre-conceived notion makes you judgemental.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us about your research into this area that you base your opinions on. There are a lot of references and papers on the net, you could fill several binders with them, and at least 20 books debating marriage and alternative models to consider.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 147 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 5/3/2006 4:36:52 PM
Hunibon,


Polomary? What is this polomary? This must be something completely different and you are obviously confusing the 2 terms because you are so far off base with your views that they could not be referring to POLYAMORY, which is what we are talking about here:

" polomarists' have an inability to commit" ??? I don't think so. They are just as committed to several partners as one monogamous person is to one partner. No one has ever said that all partners have to be loved equally. That could happen, but generally there is the recognition that one has a primary which is the dominant relationship in one's life.

Polyamory is also not about "sharing" either. It is about extended opportunities to grow through your experiences with more than one partner. There does not even have to be a sexual relationship involved.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 137 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 4/30/2006 8:06:16 AM
Ms Ali,

Another primer for poly is Love Without Limits by psychologist Dr. Debra Annapol. It has some things about working through jealousy to advance yourself to a state of unconditional love.

Another discussion of this is:

Jealousy and the Abyss

by William Pennell Rock
From the Journal of Humanistic Psychology, Vol. 23, No. 2, Spring 1983, 70-84
Copyright ©1983 by the Association for Humanistic Psychology

Reprinted by permission of the author at www.PlanetWaves.net

Sorry, I don't know its current status at that site. You may have to track it down.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 98 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/13/2006 7:36:18 PM
Mardio,

Here is a link that discusses whether poly thinking goes against God or not, but it is an academic paper for everyone to read, if they choose to. You might pay attention to parts like:

"The moral argument for monogamy is a weak position".

Polyamory - What it is and what it isn't

http://www.lair.org/writings/polyamory/polyamory-whatitis.html
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 90 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/12/2006 5:09:18 PM
Why would it matter in my case Iwarrior, as my profile says that I am only looking for friends or casual dating?

After working for years in health care I have many lady friends, single and married, who all tell me I am a great friend. None of them are threatened by me, and they know my views. Are you saying that a prerequisite for friendship is that you must be suitable material for a serious relationship?

Who said anything about a harem. You are forgetting that just as the male can have other relationships, so can the females in the group. It can be just one other person, and it may or may not involve a sexual relationship, but it does include love, caring, honest communication and nurturing and everyone knows of and approves the new partnerings. In Polygamy, the husband marries who he wants and the existing wives usually do not have any say in the matter.

If things are so great with monogamy, why is the failure rate about 2out of 3? If I see a couple make it work, then I wish them all the best, but I don't tell someone else that they should not attempt something else that might work for them better.

If poly thinking is too much for you, stick to conventional relationships and show us all how its done.

It seems to me that everything is either black or white to you, no shades of grey.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 37 (view)
 
Canadian citizen sent by US to Syria, tortured
Posted: 3/11/2006 4:55:40 PM
Time will tell won't it?

Why we had to settle for a minority when the Liberals have a 12 year record of arrogance, corruption, ineptitude and lack of vision when it comes to policy, and a generally failing grade when it comes to management of the government, I would not say that we exactly gave them what they deserved.



 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 83 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/10/2006 6:12:44 AM
Just expressing my point of view, dreamer, just as you do quite well.

Iwarrior, do you think a nickname like yours will attract a mate that is looking for a kind caring companion?

Read the title of the thread. It says polyamory, NOT polygamy. Totally different topic.

You can not get beyond the same example each time. Each member of a couple could have a secondary partner that was not the same person.

You can be committed to more than one person, and you can love more than one person. There are thousands of people in North America living it now. A little known fact is that Warren Buffet, second richest man in the world, has a wife and a companion.

It is not about sharing your partner, it is about each partner growing to the max, and sharing different things with each partner, realizing the truth that no one partner can fulfill your needs and that people's needs change over time.

With serial monogamy, you dump one partner because your relationship gets stale and you think you need someone else can give you. With poly, you get something with another partner that sends you home a happier person to your primary partner and she is delighted for you as well.

Backbacon, at the time of the bible, adultery only meant a man could not steal another man's wife, who was considered property. It did not mean that a man could not be with other single women, or concubines. That is meaning that only came about with modern usage.

Luckeeu, we are lucky to have you enlightening us with your views. You might consider doing some research before you offer an opinion. Polyamory involves relationships that may or may not involve sexual relationships.

The poly lit is full of discussion about safe sex rules with new partners, usually each person fluid bonds only with the primary partner until a level of trust and assurance is reached by a secondary relationship, that is accepted by the primary. It is like monogamy for 3 or 4 people instead of 2.

There is nothing that you said that does not apply to monogamous people, in fact, the spread of stds is mostly by the majority of monogamous thinking people that fail to practice safe sex.

Songblaze, I agree with you. Its to each his own. I have realized that I would never be satisfied with caring for just one person. The friends I now have know that about me and accept it, but I do not tell others how they should feel, just that one ought to explore the possiblities that might suit them better. We did not come with owner's manuals. Who says monogamy is the right way? You would be surprised at the number of people who felt that way until something changed their thinking.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 74 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/9/2006 8:57:58 AM
Well ohdriver,

Your question pertains to the issue of fitting biological driven behaviors into socially created institutions.

Since most studies show that man is overall a non-monogamous creature, (although even poly people acknowlege that some people are definitely hard wired for monogamy) why are we battened down by an institution that limits natural relationships? Marriage was created by church elders to deal with issues of child rearing responsiblity and division of marital assets. Yet marriage was started when you got married at 14 and life expectancy was about age 30.

We do not really connect with that many people in our life time. Why do we have to forgo another great relationship just because we are in one already? That is not to say that one gives up working to grow and preserve his primary relationship. It is due to insecurities of the first partner that rear its ugly head that these situations arise. Many people exit the first relationship to pursue the new one, not recognizing that the underlying motivational force is our built-in need for biological and social diversity.

Every spiritual movement in the world has as its goal the concept of unconditional love. Yet we place ourselves in relationships with insecure people who say "prove that you love me by not caring for someone else". Now we have a built in barrier to unconditional love.

Personally, I no longer think I can acept conventional relationships, and have decided I would rather have a lot of great lady "friends", than one who thinks she owns me. The last time I had to walk away from a great relationship just because I was in a another relationship with someone who my feelings for did not change one bit, I decided that at least for me, the problem was monogamy. With poly, you would not have to dump one partner to develop a relationship with another. As justri said, that walking away also really hurts and is confusing.

When I see all the women on POF saying they are looking for an honest man, they are living the fairy tale dream of happily ever after. They are not even being honest with themselves and in denial about the true nature of man's biological drives. They are not even being honest with themselves and cling to dream, and continue their wishful thinking about a future soul mate.

Maybe you can answer your own question as it impacts your own life.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 71 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:58:04 PM
If they are happy, what is the big deal?

In poly settings, one is happy for a partner that has successfully found another to love and shares his/her excitement and joy. It is not about ownership or possession.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 68 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:21:00 PM
You are living it successfully.

Some people have that arrangement only they are hetero.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 66 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:13:08 PM
Shangrilah,

Hhummmm, should I plead guilty here? No, I just do not care for people who bash others without thinking.

Just agreeing with her own words really.

She is suggesting that there is something wrong with people that don't share her views, but I am suggesting that perhaps she is the intolerant one, and is better off with those who share her own values.

Perhaps a more mature view would be to see if other people DO perhaps have something in common, and agree to disagree with the relationship views. People who write off whole groups of people because they differ on one or two issues are pretty sad really.

I find a mind is like a parachute-only works if it is open.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 65 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/8/2006 7:07:44 PM
cheeky,

that is polygamy.

A polyamorous relationship could mean a married couple where each partner has a secondary relationship and they each spend Wednesday evenings with them.

Does not have to mean that they are living under one roof, only that they care for more than one person. The rules and boundaries are different from situation to situation.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 61 (view)
 
Polyamory
Posted: 3/8/2006 6:52:23 PM
delytful,

I think that you are wise to stay away from poly people. They would be just too open minded, non-judgemental, kind, honest, and caring for you.

Please stick to people who share your narrow vision and definition of life, (not to mention your angry point of view); you deserve each other.

Beltaine,

You are mostly right. Poly usually means multiple loving relationships which may or may not involve sexual activity. Sometimes it is only an emotional bond. It is up to those involved. Some people look at it as monogamy within a group, some look at it as ethical non-monogamy.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 35 (view)
 
Canadian citizen sent by US to Syria, tortured
Posted: 3/6/2006 1:14:52 PM
I would also question, in any country, if the government ceases to listen to the public and is not accountable for its actions, whether an actual democracy still exists.

I can't speak for the US, but I know many people who feel that Canada is no longer a democracy. They feel it is a police state. It takes more than just an exercise in voting to make a democracy.

When a government can make up the rules as they go along, without checks and balances, then there is potential for abuses to occur.

I think that it us time for all Canadians to stand up and hold future governments accountable for everything they do. Time to quit being so apathetic and complacent about governance issues.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 28 (view)
 
Canadian citizen sent by US to Syria, tortured
Posted: 3/3/2006 5:30:16 AM
There is absolutely no doubt that the lamers who were running the government at the time were irresponsible; we know how much trouble they had doing the right thing when it came to anything. They would have trouble stepping up to the plate to defend a Canadian when their own incompetence caused the situation in the first place.

However, this is a separate but parallel issue that is not the intent of the original poster to discuss.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Canadian citizen sent by US to Syria, tortured
Posted: 3/1/2006 5:58:34 AM
quijibo,

When you grow up, hopefully you will come to learn that what the government, tells you, any government, is often less than the complete truth.

There must be a series of checks and balances in law and governing to avoid abuses of power and make persons accountable for abuses. This has disappeared from the US scene.

Arar was no more a terrorist than you are. Going home to see one's family does not make one a terrorist. If the American people continue to accept this drivel shovelled by the current administration they deserve whatever fate it gets them.
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 47 (view)
 
Small Breast Lovers Anyone?
Posted: 2/22/2006 3:58:02 PM
Never met a breast I didn't like, LOL, but you must remember that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. (ie women are more than a collection of body parts).
 poly_pal
Joined: 12/30/2004
Msg: 212 (view)
 
Are you really open minded......here's a dilemma need some advice
Posted: 2/3/2006 9:40:17 AM
Riggity, (post 210)

"Why change something that's been working for THOUSANDS of years? If it's not broke, don't fix it."

Do you call a relationship failure rate of 1 in 2 or 2 out 3, or whatever the divorce rate is now, as something that is working? I hope that your definition of "working" doesn't apply to your IT clients.


Montel just did a show on polamory and presented is as the new model of relationships for the future, because the traditional relationship was not working!

By the way, poly does does not necessarily mean open. Think of it as expanded, not necessarily open. It means more than one loving relationship, not a carte blanche license do to whatever one desires with no consideration for one' partners. It may or may not involve intimacy, but every partner is aware of everyone involved. There are rules and boundaries.

As far as normal goes, if that boils down to being conventional, and mediocre, and just existing while believing that you must just except the status quo as the way to go, then good luck to anyone who makes that choice. I personally tend to challenge anything that starts with no more than "that's the way we've always done it" as a justification. People that live that existence usually do not stretch themselves to grow and learn and be the most that they can be, do not pursue excellence and do not take risks in life.

There are lots of people that are living a very happy existence in alternative lifestyles. I see more societal problems coming from the breakdown of the traditional marriage and home, almost all of them actually. If that reality is closer to the truth, my question is simply, "why be normal?".
 
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