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 Author Thread: No commitment before sex?
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
No commitment before sex?
Posted: 1/16/2017 7:36:54 AM
Sexual chemistry is about more than how good you are in bed. That can be developed over time.

More important in terms of sexual compatibility are things like sex drive (once a day versus once a month vs almost never), whether they are generous lovers (like to make their partner happy), and on an individual basis things like your sexual preferences (giving and receiving oral, anal, rougher vs gentle, dominant vs passive/submissive roles, etc, etc, etc.)

There's nothing wrong with waiting until you're married just be aware that you'll be significantly reducing your dating pool. While there are younger bucks that are obsessed with being with a virgin in modern society most people don't really care. If a guy has a hang up about it then they'd better be a virgin otherwise they're simply a hypocrite.

As was said above, a relationship without sex is a friendship. And most people dating aren't looking for just a friend, they're looking for a companion.

Now if you're willing to look for a man who's willing to wait they do exist, just be aware that most men (and women) aren't in that position and for the most part don't care in the slightest about it. Or did you think all those people who break up or get divorced somehow get their virginity back?

Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
Why be a Liar with your profile?
Posted: 1/12/2017 4:13:46 PM
They're afraid of being summarily discounted or ignored. They're hoping they can win you over with their personality.

It's not such a strange thing though it does sound like your particular case is extreme. Men often exagerrate their height. Women sometimes lie about their age or weight. It's just how online dating often works. In a world where there are deeply lonely people some of them feel compelled to embellish their profiles much like padding a resume.

It's unfortunate that you were so badly deceived. All you can do in the future is either push for more pictures or hint that if they're deceiving you you'll walk. Faced with that many will either confess or simply cancel the date.

Best of luck.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
What do you give up for the love of money?
Posted: 1/12/2017 3:29:42 PM

Loads of people who are poor work harder than plenty of the rich. There isn't actually any value given at all to how hard anyone works at all, i'm not going to include over-time because this is just extra money paid to anyone who works longer hours than unions and workers agreed was a fair amount. But the amount of work and how hard you work does not have any set value and is not rewarded equally

I didn't say work alone, I included work, decision making and planning. Work is just one factor. Luck is also a factor.

And while you may not wish to include overtime those who take additional work whether that's overtime or additional jobs are quantitatively better off financially than if they stayed with only one job. Is there a trade off in other aspects in terms of quality of life? Yes. However that is a conscious decision people make such as whether they choose to take a promotion, take advantage of paid training, seek extra education or relocate for higher pay.

Most people aren't stupid, i really do believe that they are misled into making poor choices and educated into them, even stereotyped too. But yes they do make stupid choices. So did i by following the rules i was given, was glad when i found my own.

This has nothing to do with intelligence, this has to do with acquired skills. A person can lack financial education but there's nothing stopping them from seeking it out. There are countless free media sources of information, the libraries are free, the internet is available to millions. There are myriad opportunities to seek financial education to improve one's decision making. Laying it at the feet of the educational system, an educational system which I may remind you has the curriculum defined by social consensus is a cop out.

Would it be nice if they taught financial responsibility and good financial practices in the school system? Yes. Is there a reason it hasn't been? Why parents aren't campaigning to have money management and budgeting taught with greater emphasis in the academic curriculum? Or maybe there's an inborn social bias against including this in schools.

By all means, teach children how to eat healthy, avoid pregnancy and disease... but financial common sense? The ignominy!

I'm a big fan of Dr Sapolsky, bringing animal behaviour into this gives me an advantage. Well yes they kind of are evil, some of them. I do believe animals are sentient and know what they are doing. It has been shown that if you take alpha males out of certain animal groups the group changes drastically to something more communal, less violent, less stressful, and the health of that group goes up.

Heirarchy seems to be bad for groups and the way they maintain themselves.

You entirely ignore the other part of Dr. Sapolsky's arguments. He doesn't argue against the abolition of heirarchies, he advocates the narrowing in wealth and power disparity. Heirarchies will always develop because groups always seek some kind of leadership. Whether that leadership is benevolent or not, communally or individually focused or not is dependent upon the social and organizational structure of the community.

You are conflating heirarchy (which is necessary for order) and wealth disparity (which can have deleterious effects). I personally believe that there should be a social floor for people. I also believe that wealth disparity of some degree is mathematically inevitable because some people are just better at dealing with money than others. The same is true on a poker table, sports field or any other endeavour where there's a measure of competition.

Put 10 people at a poker table and sooner or later someone comes out ahead. The only question at that point is do you institute safeguards to prevent individuals from becoming destitute or do you allow it to run to it's inevitable conclusion. The main policy debate is how far and how much should society protect and safeguard these individuals from luck and unfortunate decisions. Any dreams of abolishing income disparity completely is just that, a dream. As long as we use a capital based system of distributing goods and services then it's the inevitable byproduct, neither good or evil. It just is.

Once you realise that i am you, but my own version of you. That we are the same, that there are laws that tell me i can't kill you and you can't kill me because our lives have the same value and you don't have the right to take mine away, just like i can't take yours....i do wonder why we have a heirarchy that says something else. It seems to be based on money has more value than everything else. Including quality of life and who deserves that. And those who can make money (or look like they can) seem to be prized more than those who are humble...and that is how the greed starts and everything else, the debts, the worthiness to healthcare, a home, everything.

And that's where I would say you're naiive. Yes, we can place equal value on each other's lives but society always places values on certain attributes. Taller men are more highly valued than shorter men. Beautiful women are treated differently than average women. Gifted athletes, musicians and authors are given acclaim and fame. Geniuses gain a different level of acknowledgement than average people in academic endeavours. Money is just one of the many ways society values individuals.

And no, society doesn't value money nearly as highly as you think. Corporations would like you to think that it's valued that way but that's because they want you to buy things. In everyday life money isn't valued that much more highly than being accomplished in other ways.

What does having money do? It gives you choices and a degree of power because you don't have to work for a living, you don't have to do everything yourself because you can pay others to do it. But then being wealthy doesn't make you look any more like a model, run 100m any faster, or write a better book.

I think you overestimate the role of money in everyday life. Yes, in many ways money makes the world go around but if you remove money and just thought about what it symbolizes, goods and services, then what you're really complaining about is that the world revolves around food, shelter, labor and services. Which when you think of Maszlow's heirarchy, then well... duh.

Congratulations. Your epiphanies have increased by 1.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 19 (view)
What do you give up for the love of money?
Posted: 1/11/2017 1:21:37 PM

Believing you are more worthy than any other sentient being of a comfortable life.

Worthy? No. Deserving? In some cases yes.

Or are you going to argue that someone who works harder, plans well and makes good decision shouldn't have some reward for their choices? Decisions in life has consequences. While many are the victims of good and bad luck in various ways (born in the wrong place, to a non wealthy family, accidents, illness and so on) there are a similar number who are victims of their own poor decision making.

$5000 in credit card debt and you find $100? Do you splurge or pay down your debt? I've seen plenty that would rather spend it on dinner and a movie than pay down their 28% interest rate credit cards. Multiply that decision by dozens of times a year and yes, they are less deserving of a comfortable life. They chose immediate satisfaction over long term comfort and thus sow the seeds of their future insecurity.

And saying heirarchy is evil seems a little simplistic to me. The animal kingdom is filled with heirarchies. Are we going to say that they're evil? Or are you going to argue that we're not fundamentally animals and it doesn't apply to us?

Just because it'd be nice if everyone viewed each other as equal doesn't mean it'll happen or that it has a grounding in reality. Some people are stronger, faster, taller, more fit, live longer, more intelligent, more creative, and so on and so on. True equality is an illusion unless you think you're equal to a person who's gifted in one way or another. Quantitative reality tells us otherwise.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 15 (view)
What do you give up for the love of money?
Posted: 1/10/2017 10:25:32 AM
This discussion is a dead end. Money is just a medium of exchange. In the absence of money you'd be exchanging services and goods in a barter system.

What do you give up for the love of food? Shelter? Transportation? Free time?

People give up plenty because they need to eat. Some give up more because they like to have a choice of foods. Some want their food needs handled far in advance. Is a squirrel evil for storing acorns for the winter? That's no different than acquiring and saving money.

The problem isn't money. As long as we live in an economic system where people exchange services and goods then it serves a useful purpose in valuing and distributing those goods and services.

Evil? Another meaningless accusation. According to which belief system? In some societies the accrual of wealth to perpetuate the success of your children is a noble concern. In others they believe the children should stand on their own without the aid or support of their parents. What makes one right and the other not?

It seems you're applying your own moral viewpoint as an absolute morality, imposing it on others in order to judge their choices and lifestyles. Perhaps you'd be better off accepting that there is some moral relativism. If a person wishes to live a minimalist life are they more virtuous or evil than a person that chooses to live with air conditioning and a TV? Of course not, that's your own biases coming into play.

A better discussion is when is enough, enough? At what point do you cross the line from ensuring your financial security and it becomes an empty obsession in the pursuit of more status, power and material goods. But that's not what you wanted to talk about is it?

Easier to just point the finger and say, 'that's bad!'. Simplistic, non-productive moralizing at it's worst.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 195 (view)
Posted: 1/10/2017 10:15:11 AM
I've learned a long time ago that there's a lot of people who are 'do as I say, not as I do."

I see it over and over again in women's profiles...

"Show me that you read my profile"
"Write more than just hey"
"I want a guy who cares about me, not my looks"

And then they don't read your e-mail or read your profile. They distill your entire value into an image.

I just laugh and think about how many of those women would be interested in me if I ever met them in person. Not an ego thing, just the reality. Some people are great online. Some people are great in person. Unfortunately one doesn't always translate into the other.

So take heart, relax and accept that it's a crapshoot here. I craft individualized messages not because I expect everyone to respond but because I know that a worthwhile person will take the time to read it and my profile, confident in the understanding that you are more than an image and a single message.

It's not personal. It's just how it is.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
Should I be on here yet?
Posted: 12/31/2016 6:29:07 AM
If you're only 2 months out from an engagement you're likely not ready.

That doesn't mean you're not ready for casual or non-committal dating but you'd have to be extremely guarded in terms of allowing your emotions to over rule your common sense. You're likely emotionally vulnerable and will be prone to attempt to recreate the relationship you had with your previous partner. At a minimum you'll be emotionally unavailable as you're have ongoing trust issues.

If you can't control your emotional attachment then you should stay out of dating. If you can there's nothing wrong with a little casual dating and fun. Just make sure you're honest and upfront about your situation. If you make clear from the start your emotional state and tell them that you're not looking for anything serious some women will be fine with that. Others will say thank you and move on in search of a more long term relationship.

Essentially you're talking about walking into an emotional minefield, one where you can take yourself and someone down with you. It's not advised unless you're very sure of your ability to compartmentalize and control your feelings.

As you said, only you know the correct answer.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
Does your standards on looks get higher as you get older?
Posted: 12/29/2016 3:54:48 PM
In my teens my standards weren't that high as my hormones weren't so fussy. In my early 20s as I developed my standards rose to match my self-perceived level of attractiveness (and ego). In my mid 20s I realized that my attractiveness was only a minor factor and that women were gauging you on multiple scales.

Looks + personality + other factors = X, as long as it was all higher than X they were happy regardless of how 'beautiful' they were by classical standards. The whole concept of dating 'out of your league' exists but it's not measured how most guys think, nor is it universal across all women. Some women love a successful man, others prefer a man that's well read, well travelled, or simply good with their hands.

Now in my 40s my tastes in terms of looks are broad again. Not because I can't attract the attention of the 'beautiful women' but because when it comes down to it they're just people. Advantaged in their appearance but no different than someone who's a gifted athlete, a successful businessperson, gifted intellectual, artistically talented and so forth.

As long as a woman meets a minimum threshold of what I consider attractive then I factor in the rest. Sometimes I've ended up dating 'gorgeous' women, other times women that some would consider average to above average. They were all beautiful to me.

In other words people are people. As long as you meet their version of a high score it doesn't matter whether you think you're up to their standard or not any more than you should care whether the person you care about meets someone else's standard.

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 31 (view)
Why is it so hard to get dates on here?
Posted: 12/26/2016 6:14:08 AM
Mostly it's because of too much choice. Human beings are terrible when they have more than 3 or 4 choices in front of them. It's why it's so much easier to meet a potential date in person (only a few eligible candidates in front of you).

When human beings have too many choices they logically start to look for the most beneficial options. A woman who receives two or three e-mails has a very simple decision. One who receives 50 faces a nearly impossible task. The end result is they start creating arbitrary reasons to turn you down.

Not quite tall enough/handsome enough/wrong color shirt? Missed a spelling error? Chose the wrong word? It all results in an artificial winnowing process where only the guys who are the most viscerally attractive (looks) or most eloquent (writing) get any traction. This results in dozens of 'average' guys or who don't present themselves as 'exceptional' being thrown to the wayside. After all, we all like to believe we're special (even if we're mostly average) so don't we deserve someone amazing?

This is of course aside from the issue that most people who are on dating sites haven't a clue what they really want. It's like a cookie cutter stampede of tall/fun/good sense of humor. Most people don't really think about what they really want in a relationship because it's hard work. It's hard work to really sit down and contemplate what kind of relationship you want to have.

What do you think your next relationship will look like? What do you see yourself doing with them on a typical day? How will they fit into your life and compliment your own? If you think you deserve someone exceptional what's exceptional about you? Exceptional people have options. One is that they don't have to date non-exceptional people. It's where the concept of 'out of your league' came from. What sort of things will they share with you? What will they not share with you? Notice anything? Virtually none of the profile 'buzzwords' are involved.

If you toss out all the platitudes what you rapidly realize is that there's a large number of human beings that most people are compatible with. The problem is they're dealing with a flawed medium (text and e-mails) or fishing in a depleted pool (bars are statistically the least likely place a woman will meet a nice man but not for the reasons they think -- message me if you want to know why).

Long story short keep plugging away. Online dating is a numbers game. Even if you're bad at this keep sending messages and work on refining them. If you're not sure why they're not responding try asking. Once in a while someone might be honest and tell you what you did wrong. Like it or not the whole e-mail/text phase is about selling yourself... a very small sliver of yourself that doesn't represent who you are but more like a teaser trailer for your unique movie.

Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 38 (view)
Pre-nuptial agreements and how they apply to mature relationships
Posted: 12/25/2016 5:38:51 PM
I make clear to everyone I date that should marriage become an option then a prenup would be expected. As for whether you should get a prenup that depends on how big the income and asset disparity is.

If you're both broke when you get married that's one thing. If one of you earns massively more than the other then it's not unreasonable to establish a guideline for how income and assets will be divided in regards to child support, divorce after set periods of time and so on.

That's not being pessimistic, that's being realistic. The divorce rate is 40% with an average length of 8 years. Would you bet all your assets on a coin flip? Would you expect your future spouse to? That's not stupid, that's insane.

The idea of loving someone forever is great in principle but in practice it usually doesn't work out that way. What everyone forgets is that the traditional concept of marriage was created during a time when the average lifespan was 30 years. Yes, that's right, in the middle ages when the churches made a big deal about religious marriages people were getting married at the age of 14 or 15 and only living to the age of 30. And none of those marriages were for love, they are legal contracts to transfer property and bind alliances.

Now imagine this. You marry someone at 14. You're married for 8 years but now you're both at least 22 or 23. Most likely the husband is 3 or 4 years older so he's probably going to kick the bucket in 3 to 4 years. On top of that there's no alimony, no education for woman, no financial support from the state, and people tended to stigmatize divorce if they allowed it at all.

Long story short divorce isn't high because values have gone to crap, it's high because people are getting married at 20 or 25 and living for 50 years after that. Think about that. An institution designed to last only 15 years on average is expected to last 3 times as long without the stigma, with women able to seek gainful employment and education, with the introduction of child support and alimony, and with the existence of government programs to help support children in cases of divorce when they're in poverty.

Divorce rising isn't an accident, it's statistically inevitable.

As for your question on wills, it's advisable to have both a will and a living will (in case of incapacitation). The last thing you want is people arguing who is going to be the trustee for handling the disposition of assets. That's just common sense. Make sure your affairs are in order before it's too late because otherwise you stick your family with a big mess.

Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 32 (view)
Do women get bothered when you approach them in public?
Posted: 4/12/2014 11:38:31 AM
It's all depends. Some will, some won't, and a lot may or may not depending on your approach, timing and the day.

Maybe this will help.

Goes a ways back, but maybe you'll find it useful.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 60 (view)
Should sex and personal sexuality be talked about before things get too deep?
Posted: 4/12/2014 7:24:18 AM
It completely depends on the person you're talking to... some people are very comfortable talking about sexuality, some aren't.

You just have to get to know them and play it by ear. The real trick is to do it tastefully in a way that broaches the subject without offending/scaring/creeping them out.

I know that doesn't help that much however it's the reality.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 15 (view)
24 yr old not allowed to hang out with guys
Posted: 4/12/2014 7:12:27 AM
This is cross-cultural dating. I would suggest you do some research on their belief systems before you consider taking this further. Some cultures/religions don't allow dating of outsiders at all. Others have very different views on the courtship process and have no concept of "dating" at all.

For example, if you wanted to court a woman from a traditional Islamic family, even IF they were okay with you dating, you would end up on a "chaperoned" date with her brother and/or father, or even possibly her entire family accompanying you.

Do some research, ask some questions, and make sure you know what you're diving into before you get blindsided.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
How long should a widow/widower wait after the death of their spouse before dating?
Posted: 4/12/2014 7:07:35 AM
It's an individual process.

If the two people are very close and the death was unexpected, it can be a very long time.
If they had a lot of time to prepare for the ending and say good-bye, then it will be shorter.
If they weren't close at all or disliked each other, then it may not be soon enough.

Only the widow/widower will know.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 59 (view)
If your partner died would you date his brother or sister
Posted: 4/12/2014 6:56:36 AM
I think it depends on your own personal position on the matter.

For me, if I passed and a healthy amount of time passed, would I mind if my ex ended up with my brother (assuming he's not a complete jerk)? No, not really. In that context, as long as it's truly a separate relationship (they weren't hooking up prior to my death), then why would I care? I'll be dead anyway.

So, if it's okay for someone to do that to me, than I have no problem with it going the other way. Just make sure it's a healthy amount of time past my death... like a year or something like that.

If I really love my siblings and my partner, then my number one concern is that they're happy in my absence.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
Religion and dating
Posted: 7/14/2012 7:36:00 AM
Really, it's less about the difference in beliefs than it is the ability to accept the other person for who they are.

If neither of you is the missionary type, then it can work.

If one of you wishes to "convert" the other, than it can become difficult. No more of a barrier than opposing political views, social views, etc.

A potential obstacle? Yes... but it is just that a POTENTIAL obstacle.

It can be worked around with the right two people.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 58 (view)
Why do other women flirt with me when I'm on a date?
Posted: 7/13/2012 9:39:33 PM
Supporting evidence’? What’s that, other guys saying the same miraculous thing happens to them? Yeah, that NEVER happens on these forums and of course proves what happened to OP irrefutably

OR we could refer to the some of the studies addressing the topic...

1. Men are more attractive in the presence of Women. Women are less attractive in the presence of Men.

2008, Hill & Buss

Men were rated significantly more desirable to women when depicted with women than they were when depicted with men. Women were rated significantly less desirable to men when depicted with men than they were when depicted with women.

2. Women are more interested in pursuing a Man when it is known that they are in a relationship vs. single.

2009, Parker & Burkley

Interestingly, this indicates that single women are more interested in pursuing a man that is less available to them. As predicted, this gender difference in interest was not evident when the participants were in a committed relationship themselves....

According to a recent poll, most women who engage in mate poaching do not think the attached status of the target played a role in their poaching decision (Knadler, 2008), but our study shows this belief to be false. Single women in this study were significantly more interested in the target when he was attached. This may be because an attached man has demonstrated his ability to commit and in some ways his qualities have already been ‘‘pre-screened” by another woman. These findings elucidate the way that gender and relationship status interact to influence mate poaching tendencies.

The statistical methods, as well as the controls in the study are noted in these papers.

Perhaps us Guys weren't imagining it..... :)
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
why do i alway feel like the gay best friend
Posted: 7/13/2012 1:22:57 PM
Three words.


Women aren't mind readers. If you're interested, you have to express it either verbally or through contact or both.

If you start the relationship without any indication of interest beyond friendship, a woman will interpret that as platonic interest and Voila! Friend Zoned!

How do you avoid that? Easy... BIG. NEON. SIGN.

Physical contact - Touch her arms, reach out to hold her hand, moving slightly into her personal space and see how she reacts, going in for a kiss, etc. Even a subtle change like moving to stroke her arms or hand, or moving in towards her personal space by shifting your seating will communicate clearly that you are NOT just interested in being a platonic friend.

SAY IT - Here's a couple examples.

"I would like to get to know you better."
"I find you very attractive."
"I'm really enjoying our Date." -- Notice the word DATE.

The point is, just don't ASSUME she knows that you're interested as more than a Platonic Friend. You need to make it absolutely, unequivocally, honking clear without ANY ambiguity or she'll mentally slot you as a prospective Friend instead of as a prospective Boyfriend.

So, repeat after me... BIG. NEON. SIGN.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
Am I misreading his behavior?
Posted: 7/13/2012 12:45:47 PM

My guess is that men like to have a little collection of phone numbers and keep a woman vaiguely interested in case nothing better comes up... I don't think men actually ever delete a phone number of a single girl/woman unless they get into a serious relationship...

And that would actually be wrong. If a man isn't interested, one of the first things they do is dispose of the phone number. Nobody actually wants to have their phones filled with tons of numbers they won't use.

As for the OP, he set a date so that's a clear indication of interest. How he behaved on that date could have been nervousness, he could be an introvert and slow to open up, or it's possible he was sending what he thought were clear signals that were completely missed.

Missed signals go both ways. I've known Men and Women that couldn't read sincere interest if you hit them over the head and tattooed it on their foreheads.

As for the pacing, that's going to be different for everyone. He could be very busy, he might be trying intentionally not to appear clingy or needy, he might be uninterested.

There's a whole range of possibilities. The only way to actually know is to Communicate.

Sometimes I find it amazing how many assumptions people make about behavior based upon incomplete or a complete lack of information...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 21 (view)
Is too much technology affecting children's creativity/imagination?
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:37:48 AM
Technology is a tool, like anything else. It's how you use it that counts.

As for Games, some sociologists argue that Games exist because in evolutionary terms they are meaningful. When 2 lions play with one another, they are not just playing, but developing skills that are going to be useful when they become adults.

Everything we do influences the development of our brains. They trigger specific neurons and synaptic pathways, strengthening some, letting others weaken due to disuse.

As for computers and video games, like any sort of game can have benefits and they are not always evident.

Games like action games can develop spatial skills, or the ability to read and use maps and markers for navigation.
Strategy games can develop higher level strategic thinking, long term planning skills, and attention to detail.
Games involving music can improve one's ability to see musical patterns, remember musical sequences, and even synthesize musical composition.
Games with heavy textual elements can improve vocabulary, improve reading comprehension, and even help with grammar and writing skills.
Games that are multiplayer and involve co-operative activity have been shown by University studies to improve skills in communication, managing interpersonal relationship, and management skills such as time management, negotiation, and planning.

It is said that Chess was called the game of Kings and that the children of nobles were taught chess at an early age to prepare them for their future responsibilities. The ability to think strategically, understand the management of resources, to think long term, to anticipate multiple outcomes, to adjust to the reactions and tendencies of another human being, and to formulate detailed and complex plans were all desired benefits.

Can technology and games be abused/misused in the development of children? Of course they can. However, they are not inherently bad, and in some way can be very beneficial.

Technology does not hinder or enhance creativity in itself.

Does a word processor hinder a writer? Does using a painting program make someone less visually creative? Does a puzzle become less intellectually challenging because it is presented on a screen?

Technology is a tool. All that counts is that it is used wisely.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
Why soo Guarded.
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:19:38 AM
Sounds like your body language is off.

Women are just as concerned with the signals you send off in terms of behavior/stance as they are the content of your words.

You might want to ask some friends to help you with that.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 2 (view)
How does a city slicker date in a country world?
Posted: 7/13/2012 10:05:21 AM
That will only be some girls, not all.

There will always be girls in small towns that yearn for the faster paced life, just as there are girls in the city that yearn for a slower paced life.

You just have to figure out which ones are which.

No need to change who you are, just accept that your percentages won't be the same, and if necessary visit the larger towns/cities to increase your dating options.

Also, just because a girl likes a 'country boy' doesn't mean she won't date a 'city slicker'. As long as the rest of you is appealling, you'd be surprised what a Woman will accept.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 107 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/13/2012 9:03:57 AM

If you're approaching a woman with no other information about her other than you like the way she looks, it's because you want to have sex with her. You said so yourself earlier. If, at that moment, the only interest you COULD have in her is to have sex, then she's just the object/means to that end.

Sorry, I don't buy that logic.

When I buy a Car, I like a car that is aesthetically pleasing, but I buy a car to get from Point A to B in some comfort.

When I buy clothes, I like clothes that I feel looks good on me, but I buy clothes to cover and protect my body with some level of comfort.

When I buy food, I like food that tastes good, but I buy food that is also Nutritious and Fulfilling.

When I approach a Woman, I like a woman that is sexually attractive, but ultimately I want a woman who will be fulfilling partners in a relationship.

Yes, being sexually attractive and Sex counts in a relationship, but to reduce Men to having NO other consideration than Sex is the worst sort of generalization.

There have been multiple times that I have declined Sex with a Woman, women that were interesting, intelligent, sexually attractive and desirous of Sex. However, at those points in my life where I want a relationship, I have no interest in Sex with a Woman where there is no future in terms of a relationship.

If a Man just wants Sex, it is actually easier, simpler and cheaper to just pull a few hundred dollars out of an ATM and go to a prostitute or massage parlor.

Are there Men solely interested in Sex? Of course there are. However, to paint them with a broad brush of intention is the worst sort of stereotyping.

It makes me truly wonder what sort of Men you must be meeting to leave you so jaded and cynical...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 414 (view)
Why do men think it is okay to bother ladies at the gym that aren't scantily clad?
Posted: 7/13/2012 8:01:03 AM

Woman don't want to be approached by a guy at the gym... AND FROM THE LOOKS OF IT SO DO MOST WOMEN ON THIS POST.

The vast majority of women in the Where to approach Women thread would appear to disagree... volume of posts does not make a view more popular or common. A variety of posts from many different people does indicate a view has some popularity or is somewhat common...

Of course, you're entitled to your own view. However, don't assume that represents the majority, and it makes perfect sense for Men to go with what the majority or a significant number of Women are comfortable with..
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 51 (view)
Blond adonis- Is he flirting with me?
Posted: 7/13/2012 6:32:43 AM

he has made several comments that I'm a "nice..good..attractive.. " woman and even suggested meeting for drinks (sans co workers)


He is subtly telling you that he would like to get to know you over drinks, and he's doing it tastefully because he Works with you.

Really, the only way he could be more obvious is if he pulled out a bat, hit you over the head, and dragged you by the hair into a cave...

IF you really want to get to know him, the next time he suggests drinks, say, "Ok, what do you have in mind?" and take it from there.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
Posted: 7/13/2012 6:04:13 AM
If you are an introvert/shy and having a hard time meeting people, having a friend who is an extrovert will make your dating life TREMENDOUSLY easier, not only in terms of meeting people, but in terms of overcoming your shyness and introversion.

When I was young one of my best friends was shy and an introvert. He had a very difficult time meeting women. He would stand around, shuffle his feet, and had a hard time talking to strangers let alone a girl.

I on the otherhand am NOT shy. I'm an extrovert, comfortable in most situations, and will willingly talk to strangers under the flimsiest of pre-texts.

When we went out, I would essentially play the role of Barney Stinson to his Ted Moseby (if you've ever seen How I Met Your Mother).

I would be the ice breaker, would often rope the girls to our table/area, initiate the conversation, then bring him into the conversation if he wasn't getting into the conversation naturally.

A girl might say something, then I'd say,

"Really? I had a similar situation like that with me and my friend T. There was this one time we were out last month... actually, T should probably tell the story. Here, T, tell them about the time we XXX."

Other times if I knew he was interested in a girl, I would do the approach for him.

The main thing is being with an Extrovert not only makes it easier to meet people, but my friend's shyness gradually disappeared. He got used to talking to Girls because I put him in the situation so often AND I would make it easier for him by creating natural segueways.

Over time, by observing and participating, he not only became less shy, but he learned to develop his Extroverted side. Before too long, he had overcome his fear of introducing himself to girls and was comfortable initiating and maintaining the conversation.

I remember sitting in a management meeting where they brought in a personnel management consultant.

He put it something like this..

Each person has a mix of introversion and extroversion. Those sides can be developed over time and with practice. Just as Extroverts can learn to slow down, listen and be more selective in their speaking, Introverts can learn how to become more involved, socially assertive and conversationally spontaneous.

It's a question of desire and practice, not ability.

While at your core you will prefer to be an Introvert or Extrovert, every person can learn not only to act as their opposite, but to understand how to communicate with their opposite. It's all a question of whether they are willing to work at it or not.

Just some thoughts.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 101 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/13/2012 5:44:27 AM
Never hit a girl while she is with her friends that is just stupid and insensitive.. I agree with reading body language. Guys can be so clueless.

Glad that I completely ignore this advice when I'm out, otherwise I would never have met my GF (3+ years and counting).

She was out with her friends, I approached them (and was actually initially interested in her friend), found out very quickly there was no chemistry with her friend, but realized that I had chemistry with my future GF.

And yes, my GF was sending off all kinds of signals that she wasn't interested in meeting a guy that night, including to me. In fact, she started off acting like the c*ckblocking friend, interrogating and challenging me (she told me later her intention was to screen me for her friend) ... however, as I talked with the 3 of them, those signals gradually disappeared and by the end of the night I had her number (which she gave somewhat reluctantly I might add as she made clear she wasn't looking for a relationship).

The rest was history.

Sometimes you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
Should effort be made to get back with Ex?
Posted: 7/12/2012 2:47:59 PM
Only the two of you know whether you can make it work or not. Assuming the both of you still love each other, and both of you are serious about considering revisiting the relationship, then there are some questions that need to be answered.

Have both of you LEARNED anything from the last time around?

When a woman says she felt taken for granted, it could mean any number of things.

Have you ASKED her why she felt taken for granted? Can you provide what is necessary for her NOT to feel that way or find a mutually agreeable solution?

Was this the Main reason the relationship broke down, or were there other issues and shortcomings on her side as well? Is she aware of those shortcomings and are you able to find a satisfactory path to remedy the various issues?

Only the two of you can answer those questions. That said, if the Love is there, and both of you are willing and able to address the issues that led to your seperation, then it is possible.

We all make errors in our relationships when we are young. Many of us don't recognize them, and repeat those same mistakes over and over, leading to the same outcomes. Some of us take those experiences as opportunities to learn and improve how we approach and deal with our relationships.

I can honestly say that I'm not the same partner now that I was 15 years ago... I would hope that I have become a Better partner.

The question of course is whether the same applies to the two of you.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 70 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/12/2012 9:25:49 AM

Take clubs for an example.... I don't accept drinks from men and get told off because these men were "nice enough" to spend their money buying me drinks and sometimes will insist very aggressively that it would be "not nice" of me to say no. Once one of them even said "you're taking it anyway" and poured it over me. The reason I don't accept drinks is because I learned quickly that when I did so, men assumed that doing that meant that I was "interested" and that we would spend the rest of the evening together. When I didn't go home with them, I got called a c*ck tease and a wh*re. I can't dance with men any more, because every time it just ends up with them grinding on me with their hardons. Then, if I accepted a dance with another man later they would come up and yell at me for "leading them on". Sometimes, these men got into fistfights and then I'd have to fend off their female friends who came up to tell me off for "causing" all this. I don't enjoy that kind of attention and this kind of thing happened every time I went, so I just don't go.

Honestly, it just sounds like you're hanging out in the wrong places and around the wrong people.

Buying a drink for someone isn't always an attempt to pick you up.

I've bought drinks for strangers when I saw it was their birthday.
I've bought drinks for strangers who looked like they were having a rough day.
I've bought drinks for strangers because they were interesting conversation.
I've bought drinks for strangers just because I felt like it.

And yes, I've bought drinks for Women who I thought I might like to know.

And I NEVER buy a drink for someone who asks.

In the bars, clubs and patio's I spend my time in, I don't think I have EVER seen a man pour his drink on a woman. And if a Man were to do so in those bars, the owner, bouncers or head bartender would have thrown them out on their butt and banned them from coming back.

It's unfortunate that your experiences have led you to believe that every Man falls into your previous experiences. I suspect that it is costing you the opportunity to meet a number of very interesting and nice people.

And yes, there are jerks out there, or people who don't know how to take a hint. It makes me wonder if those bad experiences disproportionately color your views...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 17 (view)
Beverage of choice on a date vs socially with friends
Posted: 7/12/2012 9:10:57 AM
It depends on where we are and the mood.

If it's over dinner, I like to share a bottle of wine. However, if they prefer a specific drink, I'll usually order something like a Gin and Tonic.

I rarely do shots on a date, unless we end up dancing/partying after a date. If it ends up going down that road, then the drink selection can go pretty much anywhere.

As for hanging out with friends I tend to stick to mixed drinks like Gin and Tonic or Jack and Coke. I don't drink single glasses of wine. I tend to view Wine as more of a social beverage. And beer is for sporting events. :)
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 8 (view)
Why do guys get distant after sex?
Posted: 7/10/2012 10:20:08 PM

I guess I broke it off b/c I have trust issues. B/c I wasn't sure what was going on. B/c I really was an emotional wreck on the inside trying to figure out if his lack of texting me on Monday meant he was no longer interested. I guess I'd rather break it off than be rejected.

Men often pull back briefly while they try to figure out how they feel. It's not uncommon to be worried that you're moving too fast, especially when you become very intimate.

The important part was that he wanted to continue the relationship... and relationship is the right word. Guys don't mow the lawn for just anyone.

Unfortunately, your own issues got in the way.

He was looking to reconnect, and you decided to cut him off at the pass.... unfortunate for both of you.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 11 (view)
getting out the friend zone
Posted: 7/10/2012 6:11:51 PM
You did the right thing.

Next time do it 5 months sooner.

Live and learn.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 26 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 3:10:53 PM
....and here I thought most of the answers would be no-'where.'

That's kind of where I was going with this whole thread.

The back and forth posting of some threads has a tendency to drown out opinions to where people start believing that those in a vocal minority are more populous than they actually are.

So far, I haven't seen large numbers of women crawling out of the woodwork saying that they don't want to be approached at all, just watch the timing, be polite, and back off when they're not in the mood.

Of course, the thread is still Young... so maybe there's a ton of folks who are still to weigh in with their points of view...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 3 (view)
Project Apollo today
Posted: 7/10/2012 9:32:43 AM
They would have brought a far more extensive testing suite.

It would have been a longer mission (ability to store and send more supplies). Live social media interaction, 24/7 live coverage, Nascar style sponsorships, and the mission would have extended over a far larger area geographically.

They also probably would have brought some sort of semi-permanent habitat.

And it would have been multi-cultural and co-ed...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:55:28 AM
If you want to ask Men, start a different thread. And asking a gender specific question is not Sexist, it's just asking for one side's point of view.

The purpose of this thread is to find out if there's any sort of consensus, or majority point of view on the topic vs the Gym type threads where it tends to devolve into a tit for tat posting exchange where single posters drown out the majority just due to volume.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 1 (view)
Where DO you feel it's okay to approach you? (women)
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:43:24 AM
Okay, the Gym thread has reached an unbelievable number of posts, and it seems like every time the topic of whether it's okay to approach a woman in a particular place there seems to be a furor of opinion.

So, I want to just get a couple questions out there and see where various Women's heads are at...

1) Where is it OK for a man to approach you? (Specific locations please, such as Gym, grocery store, on the street, work, etc).

2) Where is it NOT OK for a man to approach you? (Specific locations again).

3) In an ideal world, where would you PREFER a man to approach you (Ideal locations and/or circumstances).

ASSUME that it is done tastefully and respectfully, IE, they don't walk up and talk about your butt, boobs, flipping you over like a pancake, etc. Obviously nobody likes to be approached in a rude and tasteless way.

This should be interesting...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 35 (view)
Trusting intuition
Posted: 7/10/2012 8:34:55 AM
Re read it with MY intentions..
NO RICH normal men....... aka ................GOLD on pof

That's completely untrue. They are out there, most of them are just very quiet about it. In fact, many who are wealthy will lie about their true financial status initially specifically to avoid being targetted by "gold diggers". They also don't really complain about it too much because it's just sort of an accepted and unavoidable dating risk.

People with money are the same as anyone else. Not everyone wants to spend $10k+ on a professional matchmaker. Not everyone wants to spend money on a paid site without test driving an unpaid site. Not everyone is great at introducing themselves to random people. Not everyone enjoys the bar, party and charity circuits. Not everyone has extensive circles to date from outside of their colleagues. And not everyone who has money wants to date exclusively in the social enclaves that wealthier areas tend to foster.

Additionally, some people who are wealthy like the anonymity of meeting someone on the internet versus dating in a community where they have high visibility and are automatically assessed in context to their financial accomplishments.

Being on POF does NOT exclude them from being on POF as well as other paid sites simultaneously.

Are there going to be billionaires on POF? Highly doubtful. There just aren't that many single billionaires on the planet, and at that level of wealth you already have transitioned to extensive socializing necessitated by business interests and are dealing with some rather unique complications.

However, I have no doubt that there are millionaires on POF. 300k+ people, it's mathematically inevitable, and you can bet that there's a fair share that are perfectly normal.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 96 (view)
Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:42:03 PM

Oh my! Come back down to earth. Give head a shake.

Sorry, that that is simply not part of reality.

Anyone who told me that I or any other female in a grocery store was radiating the about requires an immediate 911 call.

It is a grocery store, where people go to buy food, not a bad soap opera.

I'm sorry that you've never had the pleasure of such an experience.

I've met literally thousands of people through work and leisure, travelled to over 20 countries, and lived in 4 countries.

They are exceedingly rare, but yes, I've met people like that. Probably less than a dozen in total, but they do exist. .

Some people are magnetic, or make you feel instant trust, or seem to radiate compassion without uttering a single word.

There are extraordinary individuals on this earth, and if you're fortunate you'll meet them
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 92 (view)
Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 9:35:30 PM

Well….I have a difficult time imagining a total stranger would think I was "so special" just from seeing me push a cart around at the grocery store. I want a man who sees more in me than what he thinks I can provide for him in bed

Not as far fetched as you think.

Have you ever seen someone walk into a room that commands everyone's attention? Or who seems to radiate confidence? Or glows with a je ne sais quoi? Or moves with catlike grace? Or who when you see their smile it's as if you suddenly have seen an almost blinding radiance? Or whose eyes seem like deep pools of kindness?

Some people are different than others. You can almost feel them radiating to everyone around them, even when they're sitting still, even when they're not talking, and yes, even when they're pushing a shopping cart.

Is it so inconcievable to see someone and feel an immediate attraction that goes beyond mere physical beauty?

Such experiences as those should not be dismissed so quickly.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 72 (view)
Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 1:40:06 PM

Actually, I said I don’t go to the gym…I work out at home.

I don’t know why my personal preference would be considered some quoted ideal world.

Most men I’ve dated have been introduced to me by friends or other people I knew, and usually started out as friends. I’m not receptive to strange men who want to ‘date’ me. That has never worked out well for me. I’ve been approached by men I didn’t know for years and I don’t like it. I wouldn’t be interested in a man I’ve just laid eyes on for the first time.

I’m not perpetually on the make and I don’t want to be approached by someone who is.

Ok... so if I read that right you don't want to be approached by anyone, anywhere except through friends/acquaintances.

Different strokes for different folks I guess...
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
Girl code
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:56:03 AM
If you're close to both of them, an anonymous link via e-mail would work.

If you're close to only one of them, you may or may not point it out to them directly.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 62 (view)
Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:42:51 AM

The last thing I care about is picking up guys when I’m at the grocery store. I want to get what I need and get the heck out of there. I’ll chitchat with the cashiers for the minutes it takes to cash me out and then I’m gone. I don’t give guys the opportunity to approach me.

Just out of curiousity, you have stated that you don't like guys approaching you in the Gym or the Grocery store.

In your definition of an ideal world, where IS it okay for a guy to approach you?
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 6 (view)
Trying to not date someone based on looks...
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:40:22 PM
Yes and No.

While initial impressions do count for alot, people do become more and less sexy as you get to know them.

For example, a person passing gas at the wrong time, or a person dancing well can change an impression of how attractive someone is. Similar to their choice of clothing, selection of colors, demonstrated aptitudes and skills such as cooking, artistic skills, athletic ability, success in career, good with children can all influence impressions and levels of attraction.

If you have someone that is "close" to passable, they can move up... of course, it's nowhere near guaranteed. They can move down as well.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
Is This True?
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:13:01 PM
Does that include beer goggles?
Sexy dancing?
Changing into something more comfortable?
Being charming?
Being told that they're an acrobat/gymnast?

It's not that simple. In terms of sex, a general impression... sure. However, that's something that can change with time..

As for the relationship thing, no. That takes time.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
When your best friend is attracted to your mate
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:08:21 AM
You need better friends.

Good friends go by the Bro Code.

They only approach an ex after clearing it with you, and usually only after a healthy amount of time. Otherwise, it's 100% off limits.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
Chance Encounters
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:55:10 AM
I did when I was very young. Then in my late teens I asked myself the simple question, "What do I have to lose?"

After that, I never let those opportunities pass again. I ended up meeting alot of people, had some great conversations, got more than a few dates and phone numbers, and a couple relationships.

Never forget the drowning man joke...

A man is in his house and it begins to flood all around him. With the water rising, he climbs onto the roof and prays, "Dear Lord, please save me!"

A person swims past his house with a life preserver and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."
A person rows past his house in a boat and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."
A helicopter flies overhead and offers to help, but the man says, "Thank you, but the Lord will save me."

Soon enough, the man drowns. The world goes dark and he finds himself standing before God. He looks to the Lord and says, "Lord, I have always been faithful. Why didn't you save me?"

The Lord looks at the man and says, "What are you talking about? I sent you a life preserver, a boat and a helicopter! Dumba**!"
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 37 (view)
Why do other women flirt with me when I'm on a date?
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:34:54 AM
It's not just when you are on a date, it happens when you're out with friends too.

Just being out with an attractive woman, even if it's platonic makes you more attractive in other women's eyes. Part of it is the "he's not a psycho" vibe -- IE, you've been pre-screened. Part of it is that you must be interesting for an attractive woman to spend time with you.

And if that friend has a matchmaker bent, before you know it she's off chatting you up and you're become popular very quickly.

Attractive women = Best. Wingmen. Ever.

As for dating a very attractive woman, if women notice that you have been dating very attractive women, once you are single they are nearly always more receptive. The idea that is that if you can keep such women interested, there is likely something beneath the surface worth exploring.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
Trusting intuition
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:27:34 AM
Not sure I'd call that intuition versus spotting some really big red flags.... I tend to think of intuition as picking up on something that isn't really explicit or obvious, like off body language or unusual gaps in timing, etc.

Still, glad to hear you avoided a potential pitfall.
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 37 (view)
Grocery Store Dating.
Posted: 7/8/2012 3:09:46 AM
It's a myth that you can "meet" women at grocery stores. It gets repeated over and over, but that doesn't make it true. Maybe it's good practice to socialize and talk with people, but that's about it.

Not a myth. Just has it's own set of rules like any place you go.

The direct approach is often the worst choice in a grocery store. Asking advice is often a good entre. Not being over aggressive or appearing threatening is important, and as mentioned above being able to read body language well so that you can gracefully exit if they're not interested.

Also, if it's a place you go regularly, sometimes you'll need to run into them multiple times over several visits (plant the seeds so to speak).
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 67 (view)
Coming out as an atheist
Posted: 7/6/2012 2:27:53 PM

The middle ground position is just weak. You can't prove what doesn't exist doesn't exist so maybe it exists because in a world of infinite possibilites you never know what is beyond your capacity to know. Uggg... All I have is... I agree. There is no evidence. I do not know why I believe but I do. I continue to ask myself why.

Or, maybe some of us are NOT so arrogant to believe that everything is knowable within our lifetimes.

It is possible to entertain an idea and have doubt as to it's veracity.

Saying you are "Not Sure" is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength.

If you are sure there is a Deity, great for you. If you are sure that there is NOT a Deity, great for you.

And belief or non-belief in a Deity is completely unrelated to belief in a religion. I could concieve an entirely different type of Deity unrelated to any established religion.

Do you believe in String Theory or Quantum Loop Gravity? Neither? Nor? Unconvinced of both but either are still plausible?

For some reason, some believe that it is perfectly reasonable to entertain the possibility of a Scientific Hypothesis being true, but not being sure that it is true, but to do this in regards to the existance of a Deity? Oh no's! You're sitting on a fence!

Insufficient information is a perfectly legitimate reason for NOT forming a conclusion. In fact you could argue that it is logically lax to NOT entertain the possibility of uncertainty.

Can that change over time? Of course.

In 20 years I could end up believing in a Deity, or an Atheist, or remain an Agnostic. The fact is, I just don't know where my beliefs will land in 20 years.

I don't have to believe in blind faith. On the other hand, the Universe is far greater and more complex than we know. That is not weakness, that is Humility.
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