Show ALL Forums
Posted In Forum:

Home   login   MyForums  
 Author Thread: Addicted to one person?
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 36 (view)
Addicted to one person?
Posted: 6/21/2009 11:28:55 PM
You can be attracted to him and a lot of others, that doesn't mean you need them in your life. If he lied about a few things, its time to go adios!

You aren't addicted to HIM you are addicted to what you thought was his characteristics or what his potential was in regards to you.

Get over him, there are probably the same characteristics or more complete ones in a lot of other men. Its just you aren't noticing them cause you are focused on that one person.

Just a suggestion... write down what you want in a potential mate/husband/lover etc.. the real important stuff.. ie Honest, Sense of Humor, Dark hair, blond hair etc.. things that aren't compremissable. And I am betting.. mr lied to you if you honestly look at his character traits etc. doesn't come anywhere NEAR what you really want.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
Hitting a dry spell?
Posted: 6/21/2009 10:57:26 PM
Go do things for YOU.. not for the intention of meeting someone or anyone for that matter, just for you. If you want to take a cooking class go do it, or painting class or how to shoot pool etc. just go do it cause you've wanted to learn or do it.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 288 (view)
Cold Responce vs. Read/Deleted
Posted: 6/18/2009 7:57:55 PM
I don't know. I think everyone deserves a response.. I switch my looking for from talk/email to friends and back. I'll always give a answer to a question. It may not be the one someone wants to hear, but they'll get one.

As far as response in public vs email. No the responses may not be the same, but, then you are going by physical perceptions along with other 'keys'. I spose it is directly going to depend on how well you read people.

I think being friends with someone is cool. If it leads to something else cool. And I HAVE made some terrific friends here.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 286 (view)
Cold Responce vs. Read/Deleted
Posted: 6/16/2009 9:06:10 PM
I think a cold response is more of a personal thing. Meaning you reacting to the response or taking it a cold or cool manner when maybe its not or wasn't meant that way.

I don't think I've ever on purpose deleted without responding unless I screwed up trying to make space in my email. And I DO try to go back and find the cache of it or at least email them and do the OOOPs. At times I'll read then go back later to respond. I use to do a quick jot of got your email was on the way out the door will respond when I get back annoyed some rofl..

I've only gone to the block point with 1 person. And that is only cause he became a abusive twit.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
What was your worst negative reply?
Posted: 6/16/2009 6:48:20 PM
I wouldn't tell or ask someone what to wear unless I knew how 'dressy' something would be, or asking how dressy. formal vs semi formal.. and even then I tend to be a bit of a rebel. So if it was a black dress type thing I'd probably do Teal or Green or etc.. rofl.

The thing is. A lot of people feel that if they ask you to an event, they have the right to tell you what to wear.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
What was your worst negative reply?
Posted: 6/16/2009 4:12:48 AM
I probably about then would have been a smart ass and went ok. then told him I'll wear a short dress with pants and I'll wear some hose.. I have several lengths of it in the garden which colour would he like me to wear?
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 14 (view)
What was your worst negative reply?
Posted: 6/11/2009 7:14:25 AM
Ya know you REALLY can't rate someone in person for someone else. And I really dislike putting a preconceived notion about someone or something else.

If I go out with someone. And they bore the hell out of me. OR. they are just cooler than fresh strawberries on ice cream. Is it really that they are one way or another? or is it I just connected or didn't connect with the person?

So you take the this person is cool, go out with them and do the eeewwww..

what has the 'rating' done for you? nada.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
things to bring for camping
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:30:14 PM
Friends and I use to do week to month long camping trips. (with horses etc..) Yeah you do end up driving out for stuff it never fails.

Good list up there btw..

for the first day or so. don't get ice just freeze things before you put them in the coolers.. juices etc.. as long as they are NOT in glass containers. IF you have streams near where you camp. get some plastic milk boxes (type they deliver the milk in) trust me.. if you are up in the hills far enough.. the water in the streams will be cold enough to keep perishiables in good shape. and if you have snow patches even better. don't leave eggs in the boxes.. coons LOVE eggs rofl..

newspaper, and a large stew pot with a fairly tight fitting lid, you can do your own slow cooker.
Ok the size of the pot will depend on how many people.
if you do a stew or start it in the morning, and have a hole just a bit larger than the pot, you line it wit wet newspaper (at least 1 inch thick) on the bottom and sides, bring the stew or whatever to a boil, put the lid on it, put it in the hole. put more wet newspaper on top and cover it with dirt. it will be done by dinner.

those big oil cans with the olive, canola mixture. if you pull the plastic pour nozzle they make a really good container to heat water in. keep at least 1 or 2 with cold water..

Solar shower. be careful with them they can get REALLY REALLY HOT. We used them primarily for hair washing but we did set up a shower with pvc pipe, a tarp and pallet. Most of us were swimming daily.

ok if you are not camping in a campground. be sure to have some sort of 'communication' device that can reach out from anywhere. ESPECIALLY if there is only 1 or 2 of you. there. if someone gets seriously hurt or in trouble you aren't going to want to leave them.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 39 (view)
Quick/easy salad dressings
Posted: 6/9/2009 11:29:28 AM
This is a friends salad dressing.. (we were having a hummus discussion rofl)

2 tablespoons tahini
1/2 lemon juiced
1/2 orange juiced
1/2 cup parsley
1 teaspoon honey

blend all ingredients thorougly

she uses it over what ever she wants.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 7 (view)
What was your worst negative reply?
Posted: 6/9/2009 1:13:15 AM
Oh crap. you mean i have to go find a bathrobe and slippers to wear too?? ARGH!!!!!
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 5 (view)
What was your worst negative reply?
Posted: 6/9/2009 12:12:46 AM
So lets see.. you want to do a black list of women locally, cause you don't care for their answer to your email or profile? Sounds pretty lame to me and childish. (oh and if you don't like my response, PLEASE put me on your black list. )
Perhaps she used the car excuse cause it was easier than telling you she wasn't interested for whatever other reason, and decided to not leave you hanging out in lala land wondering if she was going to answer. Some of us actually respond to email even if there isn't a connection. It's called being polite even if you don't like the answers or statements in it.
As to why she would think it was your car, probably cause guys like taking pictures of their cars or near their cars, in their cars, watching their cars. etc... get the picture?


If she's not feeling it, then she's not into what you are and doesn't see/feel a connection.

Passionate Gent: no cams... if there is a cam. It means I'd have to actually be presentable when I get on the puter.. rofl
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 62 (view)
What are the ingredients to a good relationship?
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:35:42 AM
I've known several couples over the years. From my teens till now.
Most of them had been married 30 or more years.

One of the biggest things with all of them was being able to communicate, and taking the time to do so. And that means talking things out not yelling them out. If one is too ticked off or upset to 'talk' they put in a space to cool off then talk.

All of them just sort of lit up when their spouse was mentioned or they saw them or even a picture.
Humor everyone of the couples had a sense of humor, sometimes it was just a 'them' humor and it'd leave everyone else scratching their head but it was there.

its kinda interesting but most of the ones that I talked to said if you have the humor and communication everything else falls into place.

The other thing is that... at least one of the two people KNEW.....just knew they were going to marry the other. (sometimes both)
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
Lakota Fry Bread
Posted: 5/14/2009 10:36:30 AM
ok according to those I have talked to..

if you are using milk, you replace the water with the milk.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
horse humor..
Posted: 5/13/2009 4:49:46 PM
I've had this in my blog for a long time I have NO clue where I got it anymore.

Things not to say around non Horsey people
snitched from another site...

We horse people are a social lot and we love to natter to each other, but here are things you should not say in a none horsey PUBLIC PLACE

Do you like my breast collar?

His sheath was really dirty, but I cleaned it.

In the winter, his Ass gets really hairy.

Don't jump on him, sit down gently.

What a lovely Jackass!

She wants to breed to my stud.

There's nothing like 17 hands between you legs!

Can I pet your Ass?

He had a bad attitude, so we castrated him.

He's got a lot of stamina, you can ride him all day long.

Is she a maiden?

I wanted to breed to her stud, but he's all booked this season.

We'll be breeding tonight, want to watch?

He's really good at walking and pooping at the same time.

He didn't try to run away when we drove the nails into his feet.

He broke his leg, so they shot him.

She bites her baby if it behaves badly.

She's on a new diet, she's only eating grass.

She just got a new rack.

If he's not good, just grab his lip and twist it.

When I'm done riding him, you can have a turn.

They cut his toe off and he walks better now.

Don't worry, if he pulls her teats too hard she'll bite him.

He's much better if you ride him with a crop.

I jumped 4 feet high yesterday.

She's got a really nice, big, square butt.

What color are her gums?

The mother is black and the father is white, and the baby came out black and white.

He tries to kick me when I put my hand in his sheath.

Don't worry, it's normal for his mouth to foam.

All of her babies have been sold overseas.

I know she's going to have a baby soon because her butt is soft.

Her baby started walking about 20 minutes after birth.

Her body was covered in 4-inch long hair, but I clipped it off.

He has trouble mounting her because she's so tall.

She likes to roll in the dirt after her bath.

He has 23 kids by different mothers.

He goes outside in just a blanket.

He was about 6 months old when we branded him with an iron.

I have to use a stool to mount him.

If he's spilling his food on the ground, he might need a dentist.

I was listening to his gut sounds last night...

One testicle is visible, but I can't even feel the other one.

Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
Do we choose our relationship pains and sorrows?
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:48:47 AM
thing is about perceptions and such is that you base them for the most part of what you've experienced in the past. This isn't a bad thing if it has to do with something like when the burner on the stove is red its probably HOT.

Now with the happy and pissed senario.. when you are happy, is it that all you notice is happy people? Same with when you are pissed off. Or is it simply that is WHERE your focus of attention is?
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 28 (view)
Lakota Fry Bread
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:50:55 PM
let me ask my sistah she is the frybread queen. she'd probably know if anyone would I'll get back to you all on it.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
Do we choose our relationship pains and sorrows?
Posted: 5/11/2009 3:42:41 PM
We create what it is we experience etc.. a lot is based on what we believe, or what others believe as truths and we take on as our own.

Or we concentrate on something so much we cause it to materialize or happen. pos or neg.

You can't stop your thoughts but you can guide them to where you want them to go. There by putting the focus on that of what you want. vs what you don't want by worrying.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 24 (view)
Lakota Fry Bread
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:13:45 AM
Ok I have NOT tried ths yet.. but she's the frybread queen soo....

3 cps Flour
1/2 cup dry milk
2 Tablespoons Baking Powder
1/2 tsp salt
1 and 1/4 cp warm water


Mix it all together and what do you got??? Sticky just stretch it out and fry it up... knead it, set aside, for awhile.
it should be ready to use for frybread.
Can't teach how to flap it. take practice.
shape dough in small ball, and using a rolling pin, roll out flat, flop it and fry it
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 32 (view)
Cast IRon Skillets
Posted: 5/11/2009 7:08:43 AM
On Seasoning. I've always followed the manufacturers suggestion for the first one, then gone from there the old way. I do need to unrust a dutch oven I picked up at a garage sale.
I've found that most food even if stuck on cast iron will come off if you just put hot water in it to cover and let set. it usually just wipes out after a bit and then I heat the pan on the stove and when it's 'water' dry I wipe it with a bit of cooking oil or whatever is on hand. Most of the pans I have are over 100 years old, they were my mothers and grandmothers before her soo...
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 20 (view)
Lakota Fry Bread
Posted: 5/10/2009 9:36:56 AM
if you do a search for Wojapi/wojape can't recall which spelling its under it will bring it up.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 687 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/14/2008 10:20:35 AM
This is the story about the Quilt of Life.

In the old days, people all over the world were taking
care of the beautiful patchwork quilt which gave life
to everyone on Mother Earth. It was a gigantic quilt
and they couldn..t see the people working with the
quilt on the other side. But it didn..t matter.
Everyone trusted each other, everyone knew that each
single person would do the best they could to make the
quilt look wonderful.

Each person was the caretaker of one particular patch.
The patches were all different because that is how a
patchwork quilt is made. The patches had different
colours, different patterns, different designs. But
there was no envy because the patch makers knew that
once all the patches were connected, they would become
the beautiful Quilt of Life.

To put the patches together they used three special
stitches. The stitches were called Respect,
Humbleness and Responsibility.

One day, the white people working on the right side of
the quilt got lazy.
They realized the job could be done quicker if they
used machines.
So they started building factories and they were so
satisfied with their job, they went over to the left
side and the top side and the bottom side. And they
told all the people working there that they should
also use machines.

The Native people, working on all different sides,
said they didn..t want machines. Everyone knew that you
had to put your heart and soul into the patches. A
machine didn..t have a soul. And also, the machines
made everything look the same.

The white people got mad. Why would all the others
slow the process down, when they knew a better way of
doing it? They could make the patchwork quilt so much
faster and also, they wouldn..t have to work so hard.

The white people on the right side went over to the
Native people on the left side and threatened them.
They said: "You have to use machines so that you can
keep up with us. If you don..t use machines, we will
stop you from making patches and we will kill you so
that we, ourselves, can replace you and build our own

The indigenous people on the left side got scared.
If this happened, the patchwork quilt would fall apart
and what would then happen to the world?
They tried to make patches in secret to save the
quilt. After a while, when white people realized the
people on the other side of the quilt wouldn..t use
machines even if they were threatened, they gave up
trying to convince them. They thought that the people
on the left side were slow and stupid and ignorant.

After having used their machines for several years,
some white people on the right side looked at the
factorymade patches and realized they looked pretty
dull. They all had the same patterns and colours, it
sure didn..t look like a patchwork quilt anymore, and
they didn..t sparkle the way the patches of the
indigenous people did. Actually, the whole quilt
looked really bad. Some of the white people got
Maybe the factories were not that good after all?
Maybe they should go back to the old ways?
The elderly who used to make patches by hand were all
dead. So the white people went over to the left side
and said to the Native people there: "You have to show
us how to make patches! Our side looks horrible and we
can..t remember how to make them the way it used to

The Native people who had kept their knowledge and
their patterns intact, knew that they couldn..t teach
them how to make patches. They knew the purpose with
the patchwork quilt was that all patches should be
"You have to find your own pattern!" they said. "We
must make all the patches different just like our
ancestors did! If it looks the same it will no longer
be the Quilt of Life."

The white people got upset. First the indigenous
people didn..t want to use machines. And now they
wouldn..t teach them how to
NOT use the machines!

Some white people got really angry. They tore up the
left side where the Natives had made such lovely and
perfect patches.
They tried to take patches with them to the other
side. Some others, being less forceful, were trying to
imitate the patches on the left side. None of them
understood what the indigenous people meant when they
said that there were special patches for the left side
and other special patches for the right side.

The Native people were crying. The beautiful quilt was
torn to pieces.
There were big holes everywhere and they knew that if
they couldn..t mend it it would be devastating for the
whole world. The worked so hard to mend it and to at
least save the left side of the quilt. Day and night
they tried.
And they did everything they could to save the
precious patchwork quilt.

Now, the white people went back to the right side and
desperately tried to fit the pieces they had stolen
together. But they wouldn..t fit. Then they tried with
the patches they had copied. But they didn..t fit
So again they went over to the left side and said to
the indigenous people:
"It looks really terrible on our side of the quilt!
You HAVE to help us!"
The indigenous people were so busy mending the quilt
and since they were worried that the white people
would make new holes, they said: "Go away! We cannot
help you! Leave us alone!"

The white people tried yet again with all the
strange-looking patches. They tried to connect them to
the rest of the quilt but it didn..t work. They got so
mad and the harder they tore and twisted and turned
the patches, the more they broke the rest of the
quilt. The people on the other side cried:
"Stop! Stop! Please leave it alone!"

"But we can..t connect the pieces!" the white people
shouted back. "How do we put our patches together with
the rest of the quilt?"

The indigenous people looked at each other, looked at
the torn quilt and shook their heads. They saw the
white people jerking and tearing and using force to
mend the quilt. And they knew that all it took was
three stitches – respect, humbleness and

But white people had forgotten how to make stitches.

On all sides there were people with closed hearts
looking at the patch-makers. They did not understand
the beauty of the quilt but they did understand the
desperation of white people and they realized they
could benefit from this. So they made some cheap
copies of all the patches and they brought these to
the white people on the right side. "Here!" they said
and opened the big black bag with lots of patches.
"We have patches from all sides of the quilt. You can
pick and match. And we also have super-glue for sale.
This is the only way for you to connect the patches!"

White people loved everything that was quick. And they
appreciated not having to work hard. So they spent
lots of money and bought the glue and the different
patches. The patch-seller quickly became a hero! But
there were some white people who were sceptical. They
didn..t believe in using glue to make patch work
quilts. And wasn..t the very making of the patches
something you did with your heart and soul, not with
your purse?
They tried to warn the others but they did not want to
They didn..t even listen when the colour of the copied
patches came off. Or when they were falling apart.
They had spent so much money on these patches! All
they did was to put more and more glue on them, making
the quilt look worse than ever.

Some of them noticed something was wrong. So they
called for the patch-seller. They called and called.
But he was gone. He had taken his big black bag and
travelled all the way to the other side of the quilt.
He knew his glue didn..t work and he knew the colour
would come off the cheap copies. And so he wanted to
sell as many patches as he could before people found

The sceptical white people were looking at the torn
patches with tears in their eyes, realizing that what
they did was wrong.
They had memories of a beautiful patchwork quilt and
it broke their hearts to see how torn and dirty this
Quilt of Life had become.

And so they went with respect to the left side, they
said with tears in their eyes: "We don..t know how to
do this. Our knowledge is lost. We want the whole
quilt to look as beautiful as when our ancestors made
We know that we must work together. We can no longer
show envy or anger or disrespect. We have done a lot
of things wrong in the past and we apologize for this.
Your patches are so beautiful. We will admire them
from the other side, but we know they are not for us
to have.
Instead we have to make our own patches, we have to
make them beautiful in our own way and we must start
from the beginning. Is there any way you can help us
get started for the sake of the quilt? We will listen
to you with open hearts."

An old aboriginal man stopped sewing and looked up.
"You have come with respect and humbleness!" he said.
"And you have shown a great responsibility because you
care for the whole patchwork quilt, not only your
side. You know about the stitches because the
knowledge has survived in you and that..s why
here. You understand the way your ancestors made them.
So let me tell you something. A quilt was often made
by poor people. Some of the patches had lots of
patterns, some had none.
Some were blue, some green, some yellow. Some of the
patches looked very simple and plain. But when
everything was put together, and ONLY then, the
beautiful Quilt of Life came alive. You have been
trying for perfection and similarity instead of
simplicity, diversity and the beauty of joining
everything together. Your machines couldn..t put life
into the patches and so your patches looked dead and
gloomy. Now, when you start again, you must trust your
own heart. Do not look at anyone else.
Reach inside yourself for answers. Make your patches
simple. Because it is in the stitches the magic lies,
not in complexity! No matter how beautiful your
patches look, if the stitches are not there, the quilt
will never again be mended.

So he reached out his hand and the white people took
it with joy in their hearts and said they..d bring the
knowledge back home. They would tell the workers on
the right side to stop looking for perfect patches but
instead start practicing the stitches.

And so it was done. The white people had to start from
the beginning.
They made very simple patches, sometimes just with one
single colour. But everyone could join in and noone
was envyous of the intriguing patterns being made on
the other side. The people who knew the magic of the
stitches showed the others how to do them. When the
patches finally were joined together with the rest of
the quilt, the patches that before seemed so plain
suddenly contributed to the most wonderful pattern
they had ever seen! All of a sudden they were glowing
and shining.
And the people were stunned because of the beauty, not
only on the right side but all over the quilt.

The indigenous people were so happy. Now when their
side was left alone they had time to mend all the
holes. And yet again, after hundreds of years, they
could see their beautiful quilt come alive! After that
day all the people swore that they would never again
forget the stitches and their love for the quilt would
never again get lost!
So, remember this: Mother Earth is our quilt. We all
have our own patch to take care of and we all do it in
different ways.
Trying to immitate or steal Native American ceremonies
will not heal Mother Earth, it will just injure her.
Because just like all patches must be different and
some patches fit on the right side, some fit on the
left side, all ceremonies are based on the place they
originate from. You cannot move them.
When you do, you make big holes in the Quilt of Life.

Your ancestors knew how to make these ceremonies and
how to take care of the place where you live. If the
knowledge is gone, you must start again.
You must look for simplicity because that is how a
quilt is made.
All it takes to make a patch is to go to a place out
in the nature, a place which is calling you. If you
use your heart, you will know what place it is. It
will find you. You are the caretaker of this place.
Stay there for a while, say a prayer to the lake, the
tree, the mountain, ask the nature what it needs. And
it will answer you, just like it did with your
It will not answer you that it needs sweatlodges or
Sundances or Indian spirits, because that is for the
other side of the quilt. It will instead tell you the
secrets of your particular side of the quilt. The
secrets that have been asleep for many years, because
noone bothered to listen.
But they are still there and you, as a caretaker of
that particular place, has the obligation and
responsibility to listen.

It might not seem as "glamorous" as Native American
ceremonies. But don..t be fooled! Because it is in the
stitches the magic lies. It is when you know your
patch, your particular part of Mother Earth, when you
feel your responsibility of being a part of the most
beautiful quilt in the world, when you in your heart
have no need to take other people..s ceremonies but
instead admire them from a distant, that is when magic
is created.
And when you do this, you will notice that after a
while people from the other side will reach out their
hands to you in an honest need to get connected. They
will approach you with the same trust and respect you
have shown the quilt – Mother Earth -, and that day
when your patch connects with patches all around the
world, first then will you really and truly understand
the beauty of working together for the benefit of
Mother Earth. And for the Quilt of Life.


Re-printed with permission of the author who
wishes to remain anonymous.

Quoted from the author:
"The credit goes to all Indigenous people who have
tried for centuries to make deaf ears listen to this

"Please feel free to post it wherever you want - and
this goes of course for everyone else."
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 508 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/8/2008 3:10:50 PM
Plato I will not be responding to. I put him on email block and as far as I'm concerned that means I ignore him here. And any other board he may wander to.

Weare1 Thank you.

As far as frauds and such.. I gave you the link to new age frauds. to get more specific at

While you are in there read about the other frauds. You do not have to be a member to read only to comment.

For those who still don't get the whole thing of why they do not want to share with you.

Go watch:

Wounded Knee (Dark Hour) 1 and 2
part 2

While you are there.

research the indian boarding schools and what they did to control force genocide on the indigenous people spiritually, culturally, and language.

I'll start you out with one.

Go read Vine Deloria's books.

As far as others I know, some are AIM some are not, some are members of the International Treaty Council some are not. A few are Fire Chiefs, Sundance Chiefs, others are who they are.. Some of medincine, some not, a few are Storytellers of their bands. Primarily they have been from the Hopi, Salish, Choctaw, Tlingit, Inuit, Aluet, Lakota and Dakota. Some live on the rez, some do not.

But, the one thing is that they ALL have shared their anger, their pain, the culture, the stories of either them in residential schools, or of their mothers, fathers, etc..
Along with the pain it causes them as a people to see their sacred sites, their sacred ceremonies, and instruments, and regalia, abused, disrespected, misused and destroyed due to the greed of others.

I WILL NOT share what all I have had shared or told in regards to their ceremonies, and THAT is due to my respect for them.

And well frankly, it's none of your damn business.

As is what my practices are. That would be off topic here and again None of your damn business. Only close friends and family do i share that with.

Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 457 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:30:29 PM
Spiritual Commodification and Misappropriation

What Native People Want You To Understand
Compiled by Mariah Jones

There is a disinformation campaign in progress in Sonoma County to undermine Native peoples' nationwide efforts to protect their ceremonial processes from abuse. The promulgators would have you believe that only a few "militant" Indians are concerned about this exploitation by those who have no real knowledge of the deep inner meaning inherent in these ceremonies.

The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Native people DO object to this phenomenon

If you stand with Indian people, then you respect their moral right to decide under which circumstances their ceremonies will be "shared" with non-Indians. Please read the following statements by Native people. They are spiritual leaders, authors, attorneys, anthropologists, scholars, activists, educators and tribal leaders.

Though they represent just a small percentage of those who have spoken out on this issue, the concepts presented will give you some idea of the perspective you are being asked to consider

"What's at issue here is the same old question that Europeans have always posed with regard to American Indians, whether what's ours isn't somehow theirs. And, of course, they've always answered in the affirmative. Now, being spiritually bankrupt themselves, they want our spirituality as well.

So, they make up rationalizations to explain why they're entitled to it"

Russell Means (Lakota) "The process is ultimately intended to supplant Indians, even in areas of their own customs and spirituality. In the end, non-Indians will have complete power to define what is and is not Indian, even for Indians. When this happens, the last vestiges of real Indian society and Indian rights will disappear.

Non-Indians will then "own" our heritage and ideas as thoroughly as they now claim to own our land and resources"

Pam Colorado (Oneida) "...On the other hand, the stereotypical and grossly distortive work of Hyemeyohsts Storm, a man only marginally Indian, has earned him the wrath of the Northern Cheyenne people with whom he claimed affiliation"

Wendy Rose (Hopi) "Do the names Sun Bear, Wallace Black Elk, Oh Shinna Fast Wolf, Brook Medicine Eagle, Harley Reagan Swiftdeer, Buck Ghost Horse, or Mary Thunder mean anything to you? Well, they should, because these pseudo-medicine quacks are passing themselves off as Native American spiritual leaders. Native American spirituality has become a fad to many New Age non-Indians and their naivete is being exploited to the limit by plastic medicine people, much to the dismay of traditional elders.

Practicing Native American spirituality out of the context of Native American culture diminishes the integrity of both

Many of these people are actually Indians who are spreading false rituals for profit. The rest are white men and women who claim to be Indian.

For the most part they have changed their names to Indian names to lend authenticity to their flock

One way to tell if these people are legitimate is whether they go into the Native American communities they claim to be from and perform the same rituals"

l99l Turtle Island Project Newsletter Chairperson--Betty Cooper (Blackfeet) "There are some obvious tip-offs for people interested in Indian customs and ceremonies. One is simplistic vision quests.

You can wait a whole lifetime for a vision--these guys have visions about every week"

Avis Little Eagle (Lakota) "They want to become Indian without holding themselves accountable to Indian communities. If they did, they would have to listen to Indians telling them to stop carrying around sacred pipes...and to stop appropriating our spiritual practices. Rather, these New Agers see Indians as romanticized gurus who exist only to meet their consumerist needs...They trivialize Native American practices so that these practices lose their spiritual force....Their perceived need for warm and fuzzy mysticism takes precedence over our need to survive"

Andy Smith (Cherokee) "The realities of Indian belief and existence have become so misunderstood and distorted at this point that when a real Indian stands up and speaks the truth at any given moment, he or she is not only unlikely to be believed, but will probably be publicly contradicted and "corrected" by the citation of some non-Indian and totally inaccurate "expert"

Vine Deloria, Jr. (Lakota) "These people have nothing to say on the matters they claim to be so expert about. To whites, they claim they're "messengers", but from whom? They are not the messengers of Indian people.

I am a messenger and I do not charge for my ceremonies"

Thomas Banyacya (Hopi) "We cannot prevent people from throwing their money away on so-called "Indian Ceremonies", but we can challenge those who misuse our sacred pipes, sweatlodges and ceremonies"

The Traditional Circle of Elders "Non-Indians have become so used to all this hype on the part of impostors and liars that when a real Indian spiritual leader tries to offer them useful advice, he is rejected.

He isn't "Indian" enough for all these non-Indian experts on Indian religion

Now, this is not only degrading to Indian people, it's downright delusional behavior...We've got real problems today, tremendous problems which threaten the survival of the planet. Indians and non-Indians must confront these problems together,...but this dialogue is impossible so long as non-Indians remain deluded about things as basic as Indian spirituality"

Chief Oren Lyons (Onondaga) "What about the quest for Native spirituality? It is mostly ESCAPIST, and people like Lynn Andrews, and other would-be shamans would rather look to an ideal, romanticized "Native" living in never-never land than confront the reality of what being Native means in this society

Our elders and traditional teachers want to share the beauty of Native cultures, the Native way. But appropriation is not sharing.

Appropriation exploits and commercializes Native cultures, and is harmful to innocent people"

Lenore Keeshig-Tobias (Ojibwe) "Not Just Entertainment" Whole Earth Review '91 "Each tribe has their own unique ways which only they can fully understand...each tribe has their own sacred ceremonies, songs, dances and prayers which form their own tribal religious ways. These come from each tribe's history, science, environment and all the things which make up our different cultures. I am Ponca because of over l0,000 years of intermingling the lives, blood and history of my tribe upon Ponca land.

Every movement and action is blessed with a meaning handed down by generations of ancestors and held within our tribal memory

I say these things because I want to warn people about some bad things happening to traditional ways. All across Indian country, in every city and state, white people are commercializing Lakota ceremonies. Our ways cannot be bought and sold like bibles.

No knowledge, no science, no language, no culture is involved in their pitiful mockery of traditional ways

They actually believe that by singing or drumming the right song, they are doing something Indian. Medicine equals magic to them.

Their ignorance is an insult to even the very simplest of our ceremonies, but their white arrogance leads them to believe they can learn in a week what an Indian learns in many lifetimes

It is time we who value old ways begin to explain to our non-Indian guests that our basic philosophy of respect for the circle of life is open to the understanding of all races.

But if our tribal ceremonies are to survive with meaning and dignity for our children, we must explain to the wasoci that it is not necessary for them to pretend to be Indian to understand the nature of the circle

How can Lakota children find the same respect for tribal ways our grandfathers handed down to us if hundreds of these pitiful ones are out waving Pipes, pouring water, singing songs learned from cassettes and whipping a drum?

Carter Camp (Ponca) Lakota Times "...Those of the New Age have proven themselves willing to disregard the right of American Indians to a modicum of cultural sanctity or psychological sanctity. They too, willfully and consistently disregard the protests and objections of their victims, speaking only of their own "right to know" and to victimize. They too, have persistently shown themselves willing to lie, distort, fabricate, cheat and steal in order to accomplish their agenda. Why? The answers are as simple as the fact that they are here and that they fully plan to stay.

While the New Age can hardly be accused rationally of performing the conquest of the Americas, and its adherents go to great lengths in expressing their dismay at their methods used therein, they have clearly inherited what their ancestors gained by conquest, both in terms of resources and in terms of relative power

The New Agers, for all their protestations to the contrary, aren't about to give up any power.

It is a somewhat tricky psychological project to be able to "feel good about themselves" through "legitimizing" the maintenance of their own colonial privilege

The invaders' "contributions", however invented they may be, inevitably "entitle" them to superior status; there may have been a problem once, but it's in the past so forget it; we're all in this together now, so let's move forward (with me in the lead); I'm OK, you"re OK (so long as you stay in your place and don't upset me with questions of, or challenges to my privilege)"

Ward Churchill (Creek/Cherokee Metis) Fantasies of the Master Race, l992 "This process of white dabbling in American Indian spiritual rituals represents the ultimate absorption.

Native American spirituality becomes a commodity in the Euroamerican market place, to be bought and sold alongside other "New Age" items"

M. Annette Jaimes (Juaneno/Yaqui) "I'm just tired of people going around representing themselves as healers and medicine people.

We hear of it all the time, and no one is bothering to check their credibility or credentials"
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 456 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:20:43 PM
Excerpt from

Protection and Preservation for Native American

Intellectual and Cultural Property

A Discussion of Cultural Appropriation, Exploitation,

And Indigenous Rights in US Law

John Dougherty

Anthropology 405: Cultural Appropriation

Fall 2002

Dr. Thomas Biolsi

Whereas we are the conveners of an ongoing series of comprehensive forums on the abuse and exploitation of Lakota spirituality; and whereas we represent the recognized traditional spiritual leaders, traditional elders, and grassroots advocates of the Lakota people; and whereas for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian 'wannabes', hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled 'New Age shaman' and their followers…

We hereby and henceforth declare war against all persons who persist in exploiting, abusing and misrepresenting the sacred traditions and spiritual practices of our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.

Lakota Oyate

Members of the Great Sioux Nation

The non-Indian appropriator conveys the message that Indians are indeed a conquered people and that there is nothing that Indians possess, absolutely nothing – pipes, dances, land, water, feathers, drums, and even prayers – that non-Indians cannot take whenever and wherever they wish…Indians are therefore put in a position where we must share with others – everything – but they need not share with us.

Vine Deloria Jr.

Yankton Sioux

You have already taken so much from us; please leave us with the little we have left.

Bernard Red Cherries

Northern Cheyenne

For those who do not know Vine Deloria Jr. He is the author of several books, one being Custer Died for your sins.

Benard Red Cherries is Chief of the Northern Cheyenne Elk Society
6th Generation Spiritual Leader and Sundance/Arrow Priest

This is a statement from Benard in May of this year.

Its been 7 years since the Cultural and Spiritual Coalition Protection Organization was formed founded on the Northern Cheyenne Homeland on the Rosebud creek area, the site of the first active efforts by Austin Two Moons Sr, Frank Fools Crow, Tom Yellowtail, Phillip Deer, A.I.M. and other spiritual leaders from Indian Country discussed and subsequently passed a resolution in which A.I.M. was entrusted with enforcing. This was in October of 1980, In RE: Plastic medicine man/Shaman efforts. I since then called upon the tribally recognized, bonafide and traditionally taught medicine men/Spiritual Leaders from Sun Dance Nations to a meeting, which occurred on Oct 25th, 2002 in which the same subject was presented. Non-natives and non tribal members bent on the destruction and money making schemes on the backs of our Sacred and Holy ways of life. Solutions were presented; hard talk was made by several who were representing their respective Nations at the meeting, as they had adopted non-natives who were pipe carriers? and Sun Dancers. And that to ask for a measure of protection would hurt these individuals, the talk was the same they are family, they do not abuse these ways, they sobered up through these ways, etc, etc, etc.

However my concerns remain the same then, since then and now, bottom line abuse, exploitation, and misuse, with language being the essential element in communicating with the Sacred beings, earth, stars moons. Since then we have slowed some things down, however we have come to know the hard truth, you stop one, 50 more arise in their place. It's like the equivalent of the smallpox epidemic, still affecting our Indian people and killing our Sacred and Holy ways in front of our very eyes.

At the meeting of Oct 25, 02, and other meetings that have followed since then, I have heard, "Who are you to raise concern? You are Cheyenne and not of our Nation!! Our ways are different!!!." I have also heard and grew up with the "Golden rule" of listening to our Ceremonial Leaders of my Cheyenne Nation, not knowing one day I would be honored by being placed as one of the headsman of The Elk Society ( August 1995) at a Sundance held on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation, and subsequently selected and seated as Chief Headsman November 2006, Lame deer Montana. Understanding that whatever choices and decisions were made were for our (Cheyenne) betterment and existence, and in time I would come to understand these decisions. It seems that the ways of the pro/choice democracy have found their ways amongst our people as well, without regards to the Traditional laws that are still in existence and are unwritten and are still the road map to each tribes existence! It is bad enough that the new-agers scream constitutional right under the freedom to gather and worship, to this I say that my peoples customary and traditional laws supercede these that were presented by the Colonial Government in 1776, my laws have existed since the dawn of time. We must not attempt to help find ways or laws or excuses to try to get around exploitation, and to accommodate those who abuse our sacred and holy ways, rather its time to learn "Respect for one another" and decide which side of the fence we are on, You cannot take the abusers money with one hand and slap them simultaneously with the other, you must decide for the existence of our future generations.

Ha Ho, Bernard Red Cherries Northern Cheyenne
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 349 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/1/2008 6:49:37 PM
I suggest you all go on the net and search for this article. it's huge and well I don't think it would fit here.

Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances

Also strangers were no usually killed on site. even when fighting other tribes, it was better to count coupe than to kill.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 339 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 8/1/2008 8:14:45 AM
This was written by a friend and I have permission to post it, it has to do with balance and healers etc. This is Lakota, but I've been told similar by others from different tribes.

By HinTamaheca

In the way I was taught, most everything about a traditional Lakota spiritual lifestyle and ceremonies are about balance.

When I was much younger, there were spiritual interpreters and healers that served the people with the resources they had on hand. That was the responsibility they accepted. If someone came to their door and needed food, they gave it away, even if it meant they would go without. If someone needed a healing ceremony, and they didn't have enough wood for a fire to heat stones, they would break apart some wooden furniture.

I was taught that true traditional healers give all they have, with no expectation for anything in return. However, in many traditional Lakota ways, there is a cultural value that no one goes without. Therefore, since it was known that spiritual interpreters and healers would be giving all they had to benefit "the people", including the gift of the knowledge and abilities they are provided by the spirits to help heal, the community looks after them and sees to their needs. This is why when I was younger, if a person asked a healer to do a healing ceremony, then the person who asked would have provided the food, the wood, and whatever else they were capable of providing, to lessen the burden of the healer, and restore balance.

The extended family of the person who asked for a healing ceremony, would then pool their resources to help out also. Sometimes this would have been in supplying food, water, wood, pots & pans, sometimes it was the labor to cook the food, sometimes it was just being there to help pray.

The point is, that in the old days, it was my experience that spiritual interpreters and healers would never ask for anything. Usually, "the spirits" would not continue to work with healers if they did. It was up to the community to provide what was needed, if they could, because they knew it was the right and traditional way to do so. Frequently, people in the community would just stop in to visit healers, spiritual interpreters and elders, to bring groceries, because these people were providing a service to the community, and to give-away to them helps to restore the balance.

If there was a time when a healer was needed to travel some distance, the person asking for his help would frequently pay for his gas, or go and get him, and bring him back. Again, not as a requirement, or a request from the healer, but as a traditional way of helping out and restoring balance.

When a healer has performed a service, say a healing ceremony is done and the person gets well, a traditional healer does not expect, nor does he ask for any compensation. However, if someone you loved was dying, and they were returned to good health, what would it be worth to you? Would it be right to accept the healing and walk away, or would you give something of equal value?

Unfortunately, now-a-days, many do not know the full extent of the traditional ways of doing things. They expect to be served by spiritual interpreters or healers without restoring the balance and giving something back. Reciprocity is not taught as much anymore, partly because the sense of community has deteriorated.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 335 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/31/2008 9:39:45 PM
The Red cross for the family is this.

The Black Hills Chapter of the American Red Cross is assisting the family. Anyone who can help is urged to call the chapter at 605.342.4010.

I'm still tracking down the info for the propane. mainly cause i can't recall who had the information. but I'm asking around.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 333 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/31/2008 7:22:04 PM
I'll check, I know there is a address for sending monatary donations for paying for propane that can be earmarked for those of Pineridge. I'll see if I can locate it.

There was also a family yesterday or the day before that was burned out of their home. 15 kids some adopted, some foster. but they lost everything. I know the ARC is helping but they are going to need more.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 315 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/30/2008 5:40:26 PM
The ones I know have regular jobs like everyone else.
A donation to them can be a glass of water, or something else. It depends on what the other person can offer.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 290 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/29/2008 7:22:01 PM
Ok.. Enigma asked me to explain what a Twinkie is.

Its someone (or Several someones) who takes bits and pieces of another's spiritual beliefs and practices, and say what they practice is the ceremonies, or spirituality of one indigenous culture or another, take it and sell it for funds, also claiming that they are of a tribe or several tribes, in some cases and sell that so called true practice.

So essentially, So those who are not indigenous and sell the vision quest, the sundances, the ceremonies the sacred items etc..

A good majority tote 'names' that sound indian. They aren't. Want to check on them, Call the BIA, Call the tribe and ask who they are.

Yes there are those who ARE enrolled members of tribes, that do the same, Ask the tribes they are members of and ASK them if they are spiritual leaders.

I and others HAVE.

Charlatans come in all shapes and sizes, they sell vision quest, sundances, sacred items, (usually forgeries).

A good number of them will claim multiple tribal affiliations, and they will MIX different practices. Lakota and Tiwa, or Dineh and Apache, etc..

Or they'll claim they were adopted by X Y Z tribe. BS. They may have been adopted by a individual family or person within a tribe that does NOT make them a Tribal member. To be adopted by a tribe means ALL recognized members of a tribe accept them. Not just one individual or family.

I don't think a lot of people get how insulting and destructive it is to let these people do what they do.

It dilutes and is a attempt at destroying the spirituality, and culture of the tribes, to whom it belongs. and it's another form of assimilation and genocide.

Yes I believe we can learn from everyone. I do NOT believe that gives ANY of us the right to use and abuse that information and take it as our own and **stardize it.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 288 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:34:37 PM
Lessee the twinkie one I hadn't seen till a couple of days ago or one that large..

The second.. with the list of frauds, that is the best one from all of them that are out there and there are DOZENS.. funny thing, lots of the same people keep turning up on everyones list. That one isn't complete either, there are Many Many more out there. The one I posted was just better stated and written.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 273 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/28/2008 7:28:31 PM
You either HAVE BEEN, or are perhaps ABOUT TO BE scammed into becoming what the TRUE Native American People call "Wannabes", "Twinkies", or "Plastic Indians". You also have POSSIBLY been duped by an unscrupulous seller of Native Culture!

FYI, "shamans" are found in ASIA, Tibet, & maybe a few in the old Russian states. Native people DO NOT use the label "shaman" ! "Shaman" is NOT, I repeat, NOT now, nor has it EVER been, a word found in ANY AUTHENTIC NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGE ! It has been imported & assigned to American Indian Tribal beliefs by FRAUDS, FAKES, NEW AGE GURUS, & the like, i.e. NON_Indians! If it has "Shaman" in the title, it's FAKE! Trust me on this! Check out actual TRIBAL websites by typing in 'Plastic Shamans' in any search engine. The warnings are numerous! They also NAME NAMES!
~~1st & perhaps foremost:
REAL Native Traditionalists, actual REAL INDIANS, believe the ONLY acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face over a very, very long period of time & by APPROVED Tribal method. Any so-called "traditional teachings" found in ANY book or in any "class", off-reservation "sacred lodge" or "learning center", on ANY websites, etc, are NOT entirely, or in some cases, NOT AT ALL authentic, be assured. PLEASE, just ask at your LOCAL RESERVATION about any "teachings" going on in your area. The only way to STOP the FAKES is to REPORT THEM TO THE RECOGNIZED TRIBES!

PLEASE NOTICE I SAID 'RECOGNIZED' Tribes! There are entire FAKE tribes started by & "guided" by FAKE Indians, some with HUGE followings! It is very easy to know which is a RECOGNIZED TRIBE & which is NOT...go to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S WEBSITE & download the PDF file there of ALL Federally RECOGNIZED Tribes.

ANY real Native traditions, stories, ceremonies, songs, etc, usually take a LIFETIME to learn,understand & get perfectly right, and must be done with great respect, patience, & honor of the TRUE sacredness involved. Any offer to teach you all you need to know in a BOOK, "seminar" , or in a "private ceremony",a video or audio tape, or website, etc, is malarkey at best, & FRAUD at worst.

~~3rd, Ask any archaeologist if there is ANY record of ANY dig producing even ONE "medicine card" . The answer will be NO ! NO real Indian ever sat around playing with decks of cards to get answers to life questions, or to get direction!

Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 260 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/28/2008 10:06:47 AM
The following Test will help determine if you are a twinkie

1. you don't know what a 'twinkie' is. think 'twinkie' is a name brand of golden sponge cake.'re a shaman, and all your friends are shamans too.

4..your Indian Spirit Guide only speaks English. have a plastic Indian headdress hanging from your rear view mirror. don't drive a 'rez rocket'. think apples are for eating. gave all your dogs authentic Native American names.

9...your great grandmother was a Cherokee princess.

10..your great grandfather was a Cherokee princess, too. own collector plates featuring men with rippling muscles, feathers, and prostrate maidens.'ve never been to a 49.'ve never woken up with a houseful strangers fixing themselves breakfast, eating your bacon, and calling you 'cousin'. bought the collectible Barbie (tm) 'with authentic Native costume'. named your dog, cat, or hamster for a famous Native American. think Dances with Wolves is a great movie. don't know who Leonard Peltier is. want to know where to apply to get your Indian name. desperately want to date a Native American person.'ve been studying Native American spirituality for three months and are now ready to lead a sweat. send greeting cards with images of Noble Red Men on them. have 'Native American scent' air freshener in your car. have never stood next to a dancer after five hours of powwow in the hot sun and therefore
think 'Native American scent' is something you >want to have in your car. don't know what a CDIB card is, and wouldn't qualify for one even if you did
. wonder why that abalone shell has holes in the bottom. want to get a cool Native American tattoo. had your brother-in-law airbrush a big eagle on the tailgate of your pickup truck and you're not a Harley fan. refer to a drum as a 'tom tom'. think 'heya heyaya' is the Indian word for 'God', because it's in all the songs. bought the soundtrack to Disney's Pocahontas and sing along.

31..your mother gave you a t shirt with a picture of a scantily clad woman petting a wolf for your birthday. mistook an Italian man for a Sioux chief. signed a petition protesting the slaughter of buffalo while dropping your trash on the ground. had a dream in which you discovered your 'true name' is 'Spirit of the Red Wolf Who Runs with Crystals'.'re only interested in the 'good parts' of Native spirituality.

36..your bumper sticker has a quote from Chief Seattle instead of AIM. bought 'genuine Indian moccasins' made in a factory in Minnesota.

38..when you meet a real Indian, you hold your hand out like a stop sign and say, "How!" made a construction paper headdress and put on a play at school and you're more than twelve years old can remember that Indian guy who cried in the ecology commercial, but you don't know his name.

41..when you meet a man with a mohawk, you assume he must be a punk rocker. have a mohawk--and you're female. have no idea if the headband you're wearing is intended for men or women. didn't notice your 'Indian jewelry' was stamped 'made in Thailand'. own many Indian art objects, but you have never been to a powwow. think militant Indians are a disgrace to the red race, but you just adore Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse. interrupt an elder to tell them they're wrong because a book you read said so.'re a man, but you don't have footprints on your back from your woman walking all over you. were an Indian princess in a former life. were a medicine man in a former life. want people to call you 'Chief', even though you are not the leader of a fire department, police department, or a tribe. made up your own tribe. are the great, great, great, great, grandson of Tecumseh, putting the number of his offspring at 24,473--more than the entire population of the Shawnee tribe today. didn't know that Tecumseh was Shawnee.'re the grandson of Tecumseh--you can remember sitting on his knee. built a sweat lodge from instructions you found on the Web. chose to leave the city and live on a mountain in a cabin with no running water. get annoyed if people are late.

59..your fur coats are all store bought. have no idea why Native people laugh hysterically when they see you on the street call a shinny stick a 'LaCrosse stick'. admire Chief Joseph for what he said, but you're not sure what he did. call the Sioux people 'Lakota'--even the Dakota and Nakota. think all Native Americans spend their days communing with Mother Nature. willingly pay $300 for an authentic sweat with a plastic shaman. believe that 'freedom of expression' gives you the right to poke your nose into matters that don't concern you. ask a question, then argue with the answer.

68..last year you were into Buddhism, the year before that you were a witch, and the year before that you were a member of Green Peace. had a sudden impulse to drive non-stop across America to the Black Hills--and you don't even know anyone out there. think the Black Hills are the only sacred site in America. wear plastic chokers to honor Native Americans. love Native American jewelry, but make it more attractive by adding your own personal touch.'ve never used an outhouse.'ve never eaten 'slow elk'--you're sure you'd remember if you had!
75..when served 'Indian steak,' you complain, "Hey, this is bologna!"
76..road kill makes you go, 'Ew!' instead of, 'Hey, new regalia!' don't know how many drummers it takes to screw in a light bulb. ask complete strangers for advice on naming your kids. got interested in Native culture by watching 'Star Trek'. use words like 'squaw,' 'buck,' 'berdache,' and 'shaman,' and wonder why people are mad at you. bought a medicine bag, but you don't know what's in it. think a powwow sounds like a great place to work on your tan, so >you wore your swimsuit.'re proud of the fact that you can name all five Indian tribes.

84..your car is not made out of equal parts Bondo and duct tape. selected wallpaper with Indians, horses, and tipis for your son's bedroom.'ve never eaten commodity cheese.'ve never used commodity cheese as a doorstop. hang Indian corn on your front door instead of eating it.

89..your mother gave you an Indian name, but it never occurred to you to ask her what it meant until it was too late. get defensive and evasive if anybody questions your Native credentials.'ve never heard of fry bread. won't eat fry bread because it has too much fat in it. think it's an honor to Native Americans that Jeep named a sport utility vehicle after them.

94..none of your relatives has diabetes. are one third Native American. want to know what tribe you're related to, but have no intention of actually doing the genealogy to figure it out. ask the Internet to tell you who you're related to instead of asking your relatives. think you should get in free to a powwow because you have Indian blood.'re proud of being a twinkie. wear the purple suede fringed miniskirt with knee high moccasins to a pow wow and wonder why no one likes it. walk up to strange Indian women and ask them to bless your beads. have a dream catcher hanging from your rear view mirror. have a Nativity scene featuring a tipi and Indians in regalia. think Native Americans should put up with your crap because after all "we're all related.

" offered me a 'talking feather'. write in a stilted, poetic, formal English that sounds like a Victorian author putting words into the mouth of a Noble Savage character in a dime novel. feel sorry for the poor Native Americans who are so benighted they can't understand that you're right.

108..when entering an argument with a Native American, you attack their method of expression, instead of the points they have to make. exhort us to unite and work together and get along with each other--as if nobody had ever thought of this (obvious) idea before. have never mended your underwear, hemmed a dress, repaired a car, or made art objects out of duct tape. have to go and find some scissors to open your package with. joined the Nuage tribe. just adore Mary Summer Rain. tell everyone how proud and humble and honored you are to carry a pipe. have to have the last word every single time. embarrasses you to be seen in the company of real Indians, so you'd rather hang out with twinkies like yourself.

117..when you see a person in traditional Native American dress, you pat your mouth and make 'woo woo' noises.

118..somebody asks a question about Native American culture, and you make up your own answer. think Indians have no sense of humor.

120 .you can't see that you are funny. think this list isn't funny.

122.This page is close captioned for the humor-impaired.

123..if your idea of a tribal dance is a ballet.

124. if you don't know what a "rez rocket" is
125..if you don't have at least something wrong with your car
126. if you say, "You don't look like an Indian" to an Indian (or if you think all Indians look like Geromino) don't have at least 4 feet of balin' wire in the trunk of your car. butcher a sheep while trying to sheer it during your last visit with your "Navajo" grandma. think that the hair on your back qualifies you to be a skinwalker.

130.the framed picture of your great-great-great-granddaddy is really of a "chief" that you tore out of your high school history book.


Have you figured out what a TWINKIE is yet?

May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 232 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:30:41 AM
a lot is regional.

Willow I've found works better than aspirin and such. I usually add honey, it tends to be bitter. Birch and aspen also work along with meadowsweet (which I don't think I've ever seen )

Feverfew is good for migraines if you aren't pregnant or trying to be. It can cause uterine contractions.

Oregon Grape Root works as well as goldenseal. Same component. And it's cheaper.

Goldenseal btw does NOT flush drugs from the system that was going aorund a few years ago. it was from a old mystery novel and made up from like the 1920's-30's.

if you are taking echinacea when you get sick. do not use astragalus with it. Astragulus strengthens the cell wall so that viruses and bacteria can't enter it as well. however if you are sick already,the strengthening will also prevent it from leaving (in simple terms).
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 228 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/26/2008 7:11:54 AM
the best I have found for burns (after you have stopped the burn, ie cool or slightly cold water, don't use ice water unless it's all you have) and cuts is essential oil of lavendar. Aloe is good for burns too, but after dumping a pot of boiling water over my arm and hand the lavendar works best. It has to be essential oil, not essence of or oil of. which means it needs to have the common name, botanical and country of origin on the bottle.

I only applied the essential oil of lavendar twice, once after I cooled the burn then about 4 hours later. the only thing I had the next day was a dry patch about the size of a dime on the back of my hand.

If its a child or if you burn more than just a hand or finger (depending on the type) you do need to go have a dr look at it.

for heartburn a tablespoon of vinegar either sipped straight or put into a cup of water will stop it. Heartburn is due to too little acid in the stomach not too much.

anise, is a natural cough supresent and expectorant. I usually keep a bottle of Ouzo or sambuca around or extract around.

licorice root has some of the same properties and more, however it can cause hypertention in some individuals. it can also in some women cause spotting and bleeding.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 204 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/24/2008 6:12:42 AM
When the Earth is sick, the animals will begin to disappear, when that happens, The Warriors of the Rainbow will come to save them.
Chief Seattle
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 194 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/23/2008 8:13:38 AM
annasthasia love the joke.. a friend spit coffee over his monitor.. and this was after I told him don't spit your coffee.. teach him to not listen rofl.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 188 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:10:41 PM
Most tribes talk of coming to the surface. Tiwa, Dine, Lakota, etc..

Everything belongs to the Mother, she was the first to be created. Human species was the last to be created.

Those of the sky will not step in unless there is a need to.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 179 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/22/2008 4:23:02 PM
The Lakota I know tell me the same thing. They have always been here.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 159 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:20:21 PM
ya know honestly I haven't put a shield up in about 20 years. If someone is being a energy vamp I simply move away from them and send them on their merry way. If they are projecting. you have the choice of drawing it to you or not. It's theirs. I usually let them keep it. The only thing I am consistent about is grounding, and being centered.

Everyone is at a different place in their paths. Personally I don't consider anyone healthy or not spiritually. They are where they are. They have chosen to be where they are. When they decide where they are isn't working for them, they'll make another choice. And stay there til they choose to change again, or stay where they are cause it works for them.
Its the same with life in general. We all make choices. There are no right or wrong choices, there are just choices. If we make one and it works and we are happy with it, stay with it, if not then make another choice.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 151 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:19:12 AM
The date is off for 2012.
Those who are Mayan even state its off they do not know the exact dates. When the spaniards came through, they killed the elders that could read the calendar and knew it's secrets.
Those who write books on it are doing it from what they think or they spent a few days to a few weeks with the Mayan and now consider themselves 'experts'.
Furthermore it doesn't mean things are going to 'poof' just means that is the end of the calendar as the mayan did it.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 146 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:25:21 AM
The last one I saw that was offensive was the one with the S reference from someone else.. so must not have caught nergal's if it was.

you all know that if you are empaths, that you do NOT have to take on others gunk and junk right?
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 136 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:01:29 AM
Thought I'd share a few things from a friend..

It is said that the drum
was brought to the Indian people by a woman,
and therefore there is a woman spirit that resides inside the drum.
Appropriately, it is to be treated with respect and care,
and strict behavior is expected of anyone
coming in contact with the drum.
The drum is often thought to help bring the physical and mental side
of a person back in touch with his or her spiritual or heart side.
As with many things in the Indian culture,
the drum is used to bring balance and rejuvenation
to a person through their participation
in dancing, singing or listening to the heartbeat.


The drum represents the universal heartbeat
of (Mother Earth) -
the universal mother to us all.
The first sound that was heard
in the world was her heartbeat.
The first sound a baby hears in the womb
in the heartbeat of the Mother.
The heartbeat is manifested
through playing a special rhythm on the drum.
This rhythm facilitates healing and realignment
of the four realms of human existence

because the Creator revolves around the rhythm.
The drum when combined with the voice,
creates a hum that rests between the voice
and the drum and is thought to be the spirits of the Ancestors.

Therefore, Native hand drums are not
percussion instruments per se or a toy,
they are considered female and human
because of their direct tie to the earth.

When playing a drum,
it should never be hammered in an aggressive way
, this suggests giving it a 'beating'
and one must never 'hit' a woman!
The teaching goes even further by stating
that the drum mallet should not be referred to as a 'beater'
because of the suggestion of aggression contained in the word.

All drums have a unique sweet spot somewhere
on the surface of the drum~
just as a women has a sweet spot~
This sweet spot makes it play or resound even better~
Each drum has a unique personality~
that we if take time to feeel it and tap into it~
it will not only sing to us~
but also sing to the earth Spirits~
and make our prayers Strong~

The drumbeat itself, which is a reflection of your heart.
So your heart is your drumbeat,
and your songs are the gifts of life.. author unknown
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 122 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/18/2008 3:23:21 PM
That joke has always cracked me up.. depends on who sends it to you if it's kiowa, lakota, etc.. always funny though..
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 114 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:01:59 AM
I take it the dissenter was the one with the quote and the cooking comment that I couldn't think fo a nice thing to respond to him with or by and explain his error of ways.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 79 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:16:16 PM

Actually, for some it has happened. There is no one holy man/woman of a tribe or tiospaye. Medicine Men/women are just that Pejuta wicasa/winjon Waapiya.
The herbalist/healers Pejuta is medicine, that can be anything from a aspirin to a herbal preparation.
A good many individuals did get 'converted' but it didn't have to do with convincing, it had to do with survival. Adapting to the circumstances. During the reservation days and even now. If they played lip service to the converters, regardless if they were protestant or catholic, they got food, which was scarce, and housing and etc.. not much has changed in that aspect.
The indigenous people do not need a 'spritual' leader, what they do and how they practice is, it is a part of who they are. It is simply being. It's a daily manifestation to snitch words of a friend, living in harmony.

A considerable amount of the indigenous practices are very private, and aren't shared even amongst all tribal members. And usually NEVER shared with outsiders.

This includes most of the tripe within books that are translations/supposed truths. Most of them are written by those who came in saw a smidgen of what was going on an ran off to claim expertise or knowing and then wrote about it. Or in the older times. when the gov't and churches wanted to get as much information as they could. Distracting information was given. Also the majority of linquist from that time were amatures at best. They didn't know or even begin to speak the language. So usually what they wrote is hardly that of which I'd base truths on.

All beliefs, all religions have evolved. Its not just Native spirituality, Christianity, Catholisism, Judism, etc they have all changed. Evolution is not contamination.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 66 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/15/2008 9:15:29 AM
Looking at NA spirituality overall it has definitely evolved, possibly to the extent that it needs defining as Neo NA spirituality. Although there appear to be some regional differences mostly they can be explained by differences in the viewpoint of local groups, not ancient tribes. From my point of view, as a researcher, its too contaminated to make any real sense of where the old tales and practices originated.

Actually there is a huge difference from spiritual practices of one tribe to another. There are also some similarities however, you can not lump them all together. I'm not speaking from the written word or translation of the stories in books, I am speaking of the oral traditions. The stories and histories that are passed on by the storytellers of the tribes. Yes some has been influenced and diluted by the christian attempt of forced assimilation, the genocide, the kidnapping and murder of both elders and children. Not to mention the forbidding of the practicing of their beliefs as they chose. And its STILL going on.

It almost seems like you are advocating reverse assimilation. Lump all the tribal beliefs into one group so there is no separation. Take away their identify, make them all one. What then? Take more of their land? Take their families and break them up more? Oh wait, that was tried already.......didn't work. Or is this another if at first you don't succeed try, try again things?

For a country that was originally based on freedom of religion, freedom of speech, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and justice. We have sure fallen short on those when it comes to the first nations people. Kill them, ban their right to their religion untill 30 years ago. Steal the land that they were allotted because of too many reasons to list.

As far as new agers and their theft and anyone should be able to write, practice and use it however they want.. and all the rest of their sanctimonious justification of what they are doing..well lets just say.. I don't want to be anywhere near them when S hits the fan..
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 58 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/13/2008 5:09:08 PM
Yna, if you don't get it you don't get it. It doesn't make it wrong or right for that matter if others do it in context with their spiritual or religious beliefs.

If I offer blood or anything else. I AM sacrificing a part of myself to do so. That is my choice. I don't do i cause I have to. I do it cause i choose to. If others feel like doing it also. That is their choice.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 57 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/13/2008 4:59:20 PM
Indigenous spirituality isn't just one thing. its not lodge or sundance or habilea (sp)(that is a vision quest for those who don't know) And it varies from tribe to tribe. The Lakota is different from the Cheyenne, is different from the Tiwa is different from the Dineh, etc..

As much as the US govt and Canadian would like, to annihilate the tribes, (and if you don't think indigenous genocide is still happening guess again) Or put them all into the same 'practice' or assimilate them still you betcha they would.

But as Raven said, its more than the above, it's giving thanks, it's honoring the spirits, the ancestors, all that is and was, and will be. The grandfather, the grandmother, the animals, birds, insects, reptiles etc.. It's a matter of respect.

We are all connected. That isn't just one species to another, that is to EVERYTHING.
I mean that literally.

Joined: 7/24/2007
Msg: 53 (view)
Native American Spirituality
Posted: 7/13/2008 2:15:49 AM
depends on how traditional they are.
I know its practiced by many tribes, generally though, most of them are Lakota based. As I said I'll ask for information, but it won't be till after the 20th.
Some do flesh offering, others pierce, some permit women to pierce others don't.
Show ALL Forums