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 Author Thread: Your thoughts on Mandela
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 58 (view)
Your thoughts on Mandela
Posted: 12/17/2013 11:17:05 AM

"I think for myself regardless what other's say on this forum!"
Well, Jed, you are indeed a visionary of the highest level. I always thought that if I saw it on the Internet it MUST be true, but you have opened my eyes to reality.
Bless your soul.

Why your so very welcome Im always willing to help, no please kind sir bless you.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 55 (view)
Your thoughts on Mandela
Posted: 12/16/2013 9:28:15 PM

The term "conspiracy theorist" is a thought crime label, affixed to anyone who has the audacity
to question the idiots in charge.

I beg to differ the so called fake moon landing's the rantings of David Icke How can anyone take that seriously?
BTW I question the Government and do not believe everything I read or see on the new's channels. I think for myself regardless what other's say on this forum!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 53 (view)
Your thoughts on Mandela
Posted: 12/15/2013 10:03:44 PM
I agreed their were people who do extraordinary things every day odd that you won't acknowledge known people.But after reading several of your posts on Conspiracies I won't bother you again.People who disagree with you are sheeple perhaps Conspiracy theorist's are the biggest sheeple of all.Or they are so enmeshed with their theories they can't or have no wish to look for other answer's. Have a nice day.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 3 (view)
Christopher Columbus
Posted: 12/15/2013 4:41:37 PM
Yes the point is Columbus was not the discoverer of America and revisionist historians paint a glowing picture of what a kind explorer he was.

Christopher Columbus: Legacy
Christopher Columbus did not “discover” the Americas, nor was he even the first European to visit the “New World.” (Viking explorers had sailed to Greenland and Newfoundland in the 11th century.) However, his journey kicked off centuries of exploration and exploitation on the American continents. The consequences of his explorations were severe for the native populations of the areas he and the conquistadores conquered. Disease and environmental changes resulted in the destruction of the majority of the native population over time, while Europeans continued to extract natural resources from these territories. Today, Columbus has a mixed legacy—he is remembered as a daring and path-breaking explorer who transformed the New World, yet his actions also unleashed changes that would eventually devastate the native populations he and his fellow explorers encountered.

Edit He also brought diseases which the Native populations had no defense against.He also brought back 500 slaves for Queen Isabella who were later returned as the Queen considered them spanish subject's nice huh.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 51 (view)
Your thoughts on Mandela
Posted: 12/15/2013 12:59:02 PM

Am I the only one who is sick of people worshiping ?

I do not worship anyone.

Come on, they were people just like us. Nothing extraordinary.

Work in the slums of India tending to lepers I would call that extra ordinary.

Mandela went from volent protester to peaceful protester and served 30 yrs in a jail cell and then became The first black President of South Africa What would you call extraordinary? Cows jumping over the moon?

There are millions unsung heroes in the world.

I would agree with that.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
Your thoughts on Mandela
Posted: 12/7/2013 10:10:55 AM
A man of courage who when released did not take vengeance on those who had jailed him.Apartheid was morally wrong as was segregation. A man who fought against unjust laws.One of his guard's was invited to his Presidential inauguration. And was there.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 84 (view)
Horror movie lovers thread
Posted: 12/7/2013 9:58:37 AM
The Orphanage: The acting is impeccable and there are no cheap scares. I decided to give Spanish horror a try after seeing Pan's Labyrinth and haven't been disappointed yet. I'd suggest this genre if you've found American style horror old-hat after watching it for so many years. It's a nice style change.

Try REC I watch a lot of Spanish foreign horror films myself and Penumbra. And I thought Pan's Labyrinth was excellent.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 83 (view)
Horror movie lovers thread
Posted: 12/7/2013 9:55:56 AM
Here are some of my favorites

28 Days later
R point korean film
REC 1 and 2 Spanish film
The grudge Japanese version
Dog soldier's and the Descent
The Exorcist
night of the living dead, Dawn of the dead,Day of the dead, Survival of the dead
Dead end
The zombie diaries
Antibodies German film
30 days of night
Inside French horror film very unsettling.
The Strangers
The exorcism of emily rose.
Rogue Australian film
The wicker man original with edward woodward.
World War Z But I agree the book was so much better but did like the film.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 105 (view)
Fringe beliefs
Posted: 11/1/2013 3:24:35 PM

all sensors were turned off that day, but one, why? . . there was one image, which General Stubblebine III saw and claimed was a missile ( after he went public the imagery was adjusted) logic dictates that the size of the hole
would have been caused by a missile and not an aircraft

The more I read some of these posts the more its like being drawn down a rabbit hole. As for General Stubblebine this speaks to his credibility...

Albert "Bert" N. Stubblebine III is a retired Major General in the United States Army with an interest in parapsychology. In fact, he is a proponent of psychic warfare, and was himself involved in MKULTRA and U.S. military projects to create “a breed of 'super soldier'” who would “have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls”. Stubblebine was apparently among the people who tried to walk through walls without noticeable success. In fact, Stubblebine was responsible for getting loads of money poured into what he claimed to be reasonable projects. He is currently heartily insane, but seems to have been batshit crazy even before he tried to walk through walls. For instance, he gave a “Lecture on Remote Viewing as a Research Tool” at the International Symposium on UFO Research in 1982 (you can find it here: “Technical Remote Viewing is the trained ability to acquire accurate direct knowledge of things and events – targets – distant in time or space, in the past, present, or future, while conscious awareness remains totally ‘blind’ to details about the target itself”). He is known to have arranged numerous “spoon-bending parties” (think Uri Geller). After an incident involving an officer who had a “psychotic episode” at the Monroe Institute, however, Stubblebine resigned as head of Army intelligence.

At least it got him a prominent place in the book (later movie) “Men Who Stare at Goats”. The title of the book comes from one of the talents Stubblebine hoped to inculcate in his “Warrior Monks”: the ability to kill goats by staring at them.

Stubblebine reappeared in the 2006 conspiracy flick “One Nation Under Siege” where he stated that a Boeing 757 airplane could not have crashed into The Pentagon 9/11. It is not clear that Stubblebine ability to judge whether something “could have taken place” is entirely to be trusted, however.

Stubblebine is also president of the Natural Solutions Foundation (which employed, among others, Thomas Cowles), which lobbies to establish legislation to limit the authority of the FDA to regulate herbal medicines. Natural Solutions Foundation was founded in 2005 by Stubblebine and Rima E. Laibow, a psychiatrist, who is still the Medical Director as well as Bert’s wife. In 2001 Laibow and colleagues established the Neurotherapy and Biofeedback Certification Board (NBCB) by combining the Biofeedback, Neuropathy, and Peak Performance Certification Boards. Laibow is the current President. They also have ties to the UFO movement

I did however enjoy The Men Who Stare at Goats. Bye guys time to get back to reality swoooosh!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 101 (view)
Fringe beliefs
Posted: 11/1/2013 11:37:33 AM
Just go here

And why planes were not scrambled in time.....

No Stand-Down Order
Claim: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked—the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.

Read more: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - The Planes - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 83 (view)
Fringe beliefs
Posted: 10/31/2013 12:02:27 PM

As to that other nonsense from what obviously are some spaced out engineers,well,I guess demolition experts are way overrated lol.

Laugh all you want Have you read any of the links provided? If not then carry on btw Who are these enemies?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 81 (view)
Fringe beliefs
Posted: 10/31/2013 9:04:07 AM
Debunk the following....
Structure Magazine, a well respected magazine for structural engineers, has come out with a probable collapse hypothesis. "Single Point of Failure: How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7" points out that the failure of column 79 in the lower levels will create the very effect we see in videos.

Yet another peer reviewed paper from a respected Journal finds the towers were doomed to collapse.

9/11 demolition theory challenged
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.
The study by a Cambridge University, UK, engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The new data shows this is not needed to explain the way the towers fell.

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localized failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behavior of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronized rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr. Keith A. Seffen

Below is the list of people who have staked their reputations on the only paper which passed the scrutiny of peer review regarding the WTC tragedy...

For those who may think that no one has written a peer reviewed paper on the collapse of the towers here it is...

"Walter P. Murphy Professor of

Civil Engineering and Materials Science

Northwestern University

The towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total collapse occur? The reason is the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature. The heating caused creep buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the structure, which transmits the vertical load to the ground. The likely scenario of failure may be explained as follows...

The version linked above, to appear in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics (ASCE), was revised and extended (with Yong Zhou on September 22 and additional appendices on September 28) since the original text of September 13, which was immediately posted at various civil engineering web sites, e.g. University of Illinios. It also has been or soon will be published in a number of other journals, including Archives of Applied Mechanics, Studi i Ricerche, and SIAM News:

Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou, "Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?", Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics News, vol. 34, No. 8 (October, 2001).

That means it's not just a document, book, web site or calculation on a forum. It's had to pass critical review by other engineering Professors.

I know there are CT sites which attack this paper but not one person has yet to disprove its hypothesis professionally. There are still people attacking the theory of evolution. Anyone can attack, not many can produce a paper to back it up. Just as there is no "theory of intelligent design" except on Christian web sites, there are no alternatives to this paper other than in CT sites and books."

The paper...


Ross B. Corotis, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., NAE, University of Colorado, Boulder

Editorial Board:

Younane Abousleiman, Ph.D., University of Oklahoma

Ching S. Chang, Ph.D., P.E., University of Massachusetts

Joel P. Conte, Ph.D., P.E., University of California, San Diego

Henri Gavin, Duke University

Bojan B. Guzina, University of Minnesota

Christian Hellmich, Dr.Tech., Vienna University of Technology

Lambros Katafygiotis, Ph.D., Hong Kong University of Science and Technology

Nik Katopodes, Ph.D., University of Michigan

Nicos Makris, University of Patras

Robert J. Martinuzzi, P.E., University of Calgary

Arif Masud, Ph.D., University of Illinois, Chicago

Arvid Naess, Ph.D., Norwegian University of Science and Technology

Khaled W. Shahwan, Daimler Chrysler Corporation

George Voyiadjis, Ph.D., EIT, Louisiana State University

Yunping Xi, Ph.D., University of Colorado

Engineering Mechanics Division Executive Committee

Alexander D. Cheng, Ph.D., M.ASCE, Chair

James L. Beck, Ph.D., M.ASCE

Roger G. Ghanem, Ph.D., M.ASCE

Wilfred D. Iwan, M.ASCE

Chiang C. Mei, M.ASCE

Verna L. Jameson, ASCE Staff Contact

Journal of Engineering Mechanics

Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 80 (view)
Fringe beliefs
Posted: 10/31/2013 8:57:13 AM

Easy to be a negationist,you don't face up to any of the oddities in the official stories.You have a hornets nest of traitors in your country and you give them license to strike again.

Who exactly are these traitors? Every Conspiracy theorist from the Fake moon landings to 9 11 was an inside job never show any proof its we know some hidden knowledge and everyone else is sheeple.Now its one thing to question thing's its quite another to live in bizarro land.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 15 (view)
Is this the sciatic nerve or something else?
Posted: 10/17/2013 12:08:58 PM
Go to a medical Dr and discuss it with him/her!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 414 (view)
Muscular women... Turn-on or off?
Posted: 10/4/2013 1:01:43 PM
lift weight's toned, bodybuilder,runner,rower It is a big turn on for me.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 64 (view)
Favorite documentary?
Posted: 10/4/2013 12:30:55 PM
The Nazi's A Warning from History.

Tent city
The fog of War

Ken Burns The War

The Devil came on horseback

Battlefield World War Two
The World at War

Occult History Of the Third Reich
World War Two in HD and Vietnam in HD.

Hundred's of others.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 335 (view)
Russia's Decision To Supply Syria With The S-300
Posted: 10/4/2013 12:21:02 PM
Colonialism, Western powers, western crusaders.......... yada yada yada............ Why is it that everybody here seems to want to ignore what the real reason for the terrorist-infested world today?

Because if you look at history what Igor states has had an effect. Is that the only reason no And I agree the obvious there are insane terrorists particularly Muslim fundamentalist who have no problem setting off bombs not just in western countries but across the middle east. The shia sunni conflict being one.

Off topic But look into the History of Rwanda and what policies were put into effect by the Belgian's and German's The seed's had been planted.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 72 (view)
Russia's Decision To Supply Syria With The S-300
Posted: 9/1/2013 6:34:29 AM

So - what happens if there are NOT consequences of Syria using chemical weapons? Simple - with no consequences for their use, there is no reason for ANYBODY ELSE to not use them if they decide they want to. And you'll have countries that have no hope in hell of getting nukes developing and deploying chemical weapons of all shapes and sizes all over the world - and USING them.

Exactly I agree completely.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 71 (view)
Russia's Decision To Supply Syria With The S-300
Posted: 9/1/2013 6:32:54 AM

The only way to help the PEOPLE of syria to be helped is for everyone in the WORLD to stand up and say no to ANY sort of military assault. Get these war criminals out of your life! Bombing, (even a bit) grrr.. the nerve! is not the answer.

How exactly do you get everyone in the world to say no? As for war criminals that would be Assad.

The al-Assad’s Syria: A history of violence

Beirut, Asharq Al-Awsat – The al-Assad regime, whether we are talking about the regime of Hafez al-Assad the father, or Bashar al-Assad the son, has a brutal history of violence and massacres which stretches back more than 40 years.

Dozens of massacres which resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of Syrian citizens have occurred over the years, most prominently the Hama massacre of 1982 and the Tadmor Prison massacre of 1980, amongst others. This is a phenomenon that has come to the fore once more following the outbreak of the Syrian revolution more than one year ago, and we have seen many massacres being carried out since that time.

Amnesty International issued a report on the first anniversary of the Syrian revolution which revealed that torture and mistreatment against the Syrian opposition had reached “unprecedented levels” and represented a “systematic attack” on civilians. In a report entitled “I wanted to die: Syria’s torture survivors speak out”, Amnesty International revealed that “people are almost invariably beaten and otherwise tortured and ill-treated during arrest, often during the subsequent transportation to detention centres, and routinely upon arrival at the detention centres and afterwards” adding that “among the victims are children aged under 18.” As for why the Syrian authorities are carrying out such practices, the Amnesty International report claimed that “the torture and other ill-treatment appear intended to punish, to intimidate, to coerce “confessions” and perhaps to send a warning to others as to what they may expect should they also be arrested.”

Human Rights Watch issued a report in July 2010 entitled “A Wasted Decade: Human Rights in Syria during Bashar al-Assad’s First Ten Years in Power”, stressing that “Bashar al-Assad inherited a country with a legacy of abusive practices, but to date he has not taken any concrete steps to acknowledge and address these abuses or shed light on the fate of thousands of people who have disappeared since the 1980s.”

Comparing the massacres that took place during the era of Hafez al-Assad, to those currently taking place during the Bashar al-Assad era, the leader of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, Mohammad Riad Al-Shaqfa, told Asharq Al-Awsat that “he [Bashar al-Assad] is truly his father’s son…they [Hafez and Bashar al-Assad] are of the same type. They have the same attitude…to killing, massacres and crimes. This is a regime of monsters pretending to be humans.”

He added “what al-Assad the father did over decades is being carried out by al-Assad the son today, and Tadmor and Saidnaya prisons are witnesses to this fact. All of the massacres that were carried out by the regime against the Syrian people during the revolution reflect this.”

The following are just a few examples of the massacres that have been carried out by al-Assad regime forces over the past 40 years.

The Hama massacre:

The Hama massacre began on 2 February 1982 when Syrian military units began a campaign against the city, following accusations that the city was sheltering Muslim Brotherhood affiliated gunmen. The Hafez al-Assad regime eventually pursued a “scorched earth” operation against the city, shelling it for several weeks, before sending in troops and tanks. Many Hama residents were killed or arrested during this period; human rights organizations called for an international investigation into the events of the Hama massacre and for those responsible for this to be held to account.

Reports indicate that between 20 and 40 thousand Hama residents were killed over a period of more than three weeks, whilst approximately 15 thousand people were later arrested and have since completely disappeared, their fate remains unknown today, more than 20 years later. The Syrian security and military forces also destroyed numerous buildings, including mosques and churches, which led to a huge displacement of Hama residents.

The Hamas massacre has been described as perhaps “the single deadliest act by any Arab government against its own people in the modern Middle East.” The Syrian armed forces in Hama were led by Rifaat al-Assad, the younger brother of former Syrian President Hafez al-Assad.

Tadmor Prison massacre:

The Tadmor Prison massacre took place on 2 February 1980. This was perhaps the second bloodiest massacre to have occurred during the Hafez al-Assad era, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of prisons, the majority of whom were members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

This incident remains shrouded in secrecy, and so the exact death toll remains unknown, although reports indicate that this between 600 and 1,000 prisoners were killed. The massacre was reportedly in retaliation to a failed assassination attempt against Hafez al-Assad. Reports indicate that Syrian security forces, also under the direct supervision of Rifaat al-Assad, entered the prison and massacred unarmed prisoners in their cells.

Information indicates that the bodies of the prisoners were then transferred to pre-prepared mass graves in a valley east of Tadmor – indicating that this massacre was well-planned, and not the result of prison riots, as claimed by some regime supporters.

According to “Human Rights Watch”, “commandos from the Defense Brigade under the command of Rifaat al-Assad, Hafez al-Assad’s brother, killed an estimated 1,000 unarmed inmates, mostly Islamists, at Tadmor military prison, in retaliation for a failed assassination attempt against Hafez al-Assad.” The “Human Rights Watch” report also asserts that “the names of those killed were never made public.”

One year later, Jordan arrested two figures with ties to the Tadmor prison massacre for involvement in a plot to assassinate former Jordanian Prime Minister Mudar Badran. The two Syrian figures, members of Rifaat al-Assad’s paramilitary “Defense Companies” reportedly gave details of the Tadmor prison massacre; there was an international outcry for the Syrian authorities to investigate and reveal what truly occurred at Tadmor military prison; however the Hafez al-Assad regime refused.

Faraj Beraqdar, a Syrian poet who spent five-years in Tadmor, described the prison as “the kingdom of death and madness.”

Aleppo massacres:

A number of massacres have occurred in Aleppo, most prominently the Eid al-Adha massacre of 11 August, 1980, during which around 100 Aleppo citizens were killed. In addition to this, more than 110 people were killed near the Aleppo castle the next day, whilst other reports put the death toll as high as 1,900.

Idlib massacres:

The Hafez al-Assad regime also carried out massacres in Idlib, most prominently in Jisr Ash-Shughur – a center of the anti-Assad uprising in 2011 – where around 100 citizens were killed in 1980.

Massacres during the Syrian revolution:

Bashar al-Assad has been no less brutal than his father, Hafez al-Assad, with regards to using violence to crack down on dissent and opposition, and a number of terrible massacres have taken place in Syria in recent years, particularly following the outbreak of the Syrian revolution.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has reported that 9,113 people have been killed since the beginning of the Syrian revolution; 6,645 civilians, 1,997 members of the Syrian security forces and 471 rebels.

Most recently, the Syria Observatory revealed that 23 mutilated corpses were found near the city of Idlib in northwest Syria; Idlib had been a center for the anti-regime protests but was seized by Syrian forces this week. Reports indicate that the victims were blindfolded and handcuffed before being executed. This is similar to a previous “massacre” of dozens of women and children in the flashpoint city of Homs last week.

However perhaps the greatest “massacre” to have occurred during the Syrian uprising was the al-Assad regime’s targeting of Homs. The Baba Amr district of Homs was seized by the Syrian opposition, in particular the Free Syrian Army [FSA], who managed to hold on to this district for approximately one month, before being pushed back by al-Assad’s relentless killing machine. Al-Assad regime forces shelled the Baba Amr district for weeks, inflicting heavy civilian damages. Opposition sources reported that more than 217 Homs residents alone were killed on 2 February, 2012, after intensification in the bombardment campaign. Reports indicated that 36 houses were completely destroyed, whilst the district hospital was also targeted. During this period, casualties in Homs often ranged into the hundreds every day, before the Syrian military eventually managed to regain control of the city in early March.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights also reported that 68 bodies were uncovered between the villages of Ram al-Enz and Ghajariyeh; the bodies were taken to the central hospital in Homs. Post-mortem examinations reveal that many of the victims were executed, either being gunned down or killed with “cutting” weapons. The Local Coordination Committee also reported that it had discovered the bodies of 64 men; hypothesizing that the victims were civilians who tried to flee the battle raging in Homs and who were abducted and executed by pro-government militia.

There have also been allegations of rapes and sexual assaults being committed by al-Assad regime forces. These accusations have served to increase the number of Syrian citizens fleeing the country and seeking refuge elsewhere, most prominently in Turkey.

Following the recapture of Homs earlier this month, the battle turned to Idlib, which in turn fell to al-Assad regime forces after three days of sustained tank, machine-gun and artillery fire. The al-Assad regime forces carried out another massacre here, opening fire on unarmed Idlib residents outside the city’s al-Bilal mosque, resulting in the deaths of approximately 45 people.

This massacre occurred just one day after 17 civilians, mostly women and children, were burned or hacked to death in the Karm el-Zeytoun district of Homs.

Therefore it is clear that Bashar al-Assad is following in his father’s footsteps with regards to massacres and violence, and he even managed to celebrate the Hama massacre of 1982 with one of his own. 4 February 2012 was one of the bloodiest days of the revolution, resulting in around 340 deaths. Speaking to Asharq Al-Awsat, “Jawad”, a revolutionary activist in the city of Homs, described what happened on 4 February 2012 – the anniversary of the Hama massacre – as a “disaster”, revealing that the al-Assad forces carried out a sustained bombardment of Homs throughout the day. He also revealed that this bombardment campaign had destroyed homes with families in them, whilst attempts to recover dead bodies were also targeted and attacked by al-Assad regime forces.

There have been too many incidents of violence and massacres committed by the al-Assad regime forces since the outbreak of the Syrian revolution to mention, from Hama to Homs, Idlib to Deraa, and even Damascus. It is clear that Bashar al-Assad is following in his father’s footsteps and that he is prepared to do anything to cling to power. However despite this history of violence in the al-Assad’s Syria, whether we are talking about al-Assad the father or al-Assad the son, the Syrian people are steadfast in their desire for freedom and dignity; this unimaginable violence has not prevented them from taking to the street, day after day, to demand change
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 60 (view)
Russia's Decision To Supply Syria With The S-300
Posted: 8/31/2013 2:11:47 PM
A limited strike using cruise missiles not one American boot on the ground!!!!!!!!!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
Tightwire Walk Across Grand Canyon
Posted: 6/26/2013 4:14:15 PM
I watched the highlights on the new's The guy wants to tempt fate go for it as long as he doesn't land on anyone.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 34 (view)
Putting dogs down after they attack other pets.
Posted: 5/29/2013 12:05:56 PM
Most of the time it is irresponsible pet owners, I cant tell you how many times people think just because there at a beach its okay to let there dog roam free.My keeshond as a puppy was attacked on a leash while walking along the sea shore by a doberman I kicked the doberman in the side and it let go. Most dog owners are idiots!They also don't pick up there poo either.Some dogs are just nuts regardless of breed if it attacks someone put it down!I also worked in a kennel for 7 yrs and the worst breed I came across were chows just my experience bull mastiffs,Bernese mountain dogs,dobermans rottweilers all sweethearts why good training and breeding.Except for one poor rottie that was abandoned at the vets who was a sweetheart but went insane. As for pit bulls we had only three come in usually to be treated by dog bites by the other 2 pit bulls.Same owner. Btw while malamutes are beautiful they are known escape artists and are known for killing cats......

The Alaskan Malamute is a big, powerful dog who was bred to pull sleds in harsh terrain and brutal climates. Consider that fact carefully if you're at all unsure about your ability to walk a dog like that on a leash. And a leash is not optional equipment when it comes to a Malamute; not only does he roam, often for miles and days, but he’s usually ready to mix it up with other dogs and will hunt and kill wildlife and cats.

Malamutes also extremely difficult to keep behind a fence, as they are expert diggers and climbers. If you want them back, Malamutes need to be microchipped and have an ID tag on their collars at all times. And while working Malamutes often live happily in kennel situations – because they get lots of exercise and plenty of interesting work to do -- relegating a Malamute to the backyard isn't a great idea, unless you like holes the size of a swimming pool, and your neighbors like howling. Not to mention that he'll probably not be there when you get home, since he considers fences to be interesting challenges rather than genuine obstacles.

If none of that deters you, then you might be ready to consider some of the pluses to the Alaskan Malamute. He's handsome, with a primeval look that can make you feel the snowy winds of the tundra even when you're standing on a suburban lawn. And he absolutely adores children, although as with all large, powerful dogs, careful supervision is required.

Malamutes can be affected by a few genetic diseases, and there are temperament problems in the breed, so be careful to get your dog from either an experienced breeder who does genetic screening and temperament tests on her dogs, or a reputable rescue group that evaluates them for temperament and suitability for your family and lifestyle.

Now if you introduce your malamute puppy to a household cat or kitten and they get along a different story.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 59 (view)
Top ten happiest countries
Posted: 5/28/2013 2:39:24 PM

For those who believe that the federal govt. should be the end all for everything, that is should be the nanny state that takes care of you from birth to death, Henry Ford once said the following:

I wouldn't use Ford as an example since he was a raving anti Semite.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 136 (view)
Do men really prefer blondes.? Does it matter if it is bleached?
Posted: 4/22/2013 8:50:12 AM

Do men really prefer blondes.? Does it matter if it is bleached?

A woman's hair color does not matter to me my preference is she in good shape a good personality are we compatible.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 123 (view)
Childless men
Posted: 4/11/2013 10:59:51 AM

As a man well into his mid-life crisis,I notice that lately as a man who never had children, I am jealous of friend's and neighbor's families. I always wanted a daughter especially,and feel like a failure as a man that I didn't have kids earlier in life when a few opportunities presented themselves. This feeling was further enhanced when I recently found out from my ex-girlfriend of 1 1/2 years, that she secretly aborted our unborn child while we were dating.I would like to know from men and women,their oppinions on this subject.

If you want children so badly what about adoption? I never wanted children my nieces and nephew's are enough for me.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 56 (view)
Nietsche: Morality devoid of Divinity. (A thinking man's thread)
Posted: 4/2/2013 7:53:32 AM
I had to "suffer" Through Beyond good and Evil. Personally I can't stand Nietsche A cruel philosopher to say the least.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 258 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 4/2/2013 7:34:04 AM

During the time when Reagan was our president, that was the age of the talk of aliens. Videos of goverment scientice working on alien bodies, but during one of his speeches when someone asked "do you believe that their is any proof of aliens" reagan reply was "Personally I don't know, but as soon as I heard about you will too" a week later he dies.

The films turned out to be a hoax Britain's Manchester Evening News (April 6, 2006) termed it a hoax that "fooled the world." Well, not exactly: Skeptical Inquirer magazine was on to the 1995 "Alien Autopsy" film from the outset. But now the reputed creator of the fake extraterrestrial corpse used for the "autopsy" has publicly confessed.

The film—purporting to depict the post mortem of an extraterrestrial who died in a UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947—was part of a "documentary" that aired on the Fox television network. Skeptics and many UFOlogists quickly branded the affair a hoax.

Among numerous observations, they noted that the film bore a bogus, non-military codemark, that the injuries sustained by the extraterrestrial were inconsistent with an air crash, and that the person performing the autopsy held the scissors like a tailor rather than a pathologist (who is trained to place his middle or ring finger in the bottom of the scissors hole and use his forefinger to steady the blades).

So with Reagan your saying he was murdered?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 35 (view)
POPE: Homosexuality leads to destruction of human race
Posted: 4/2/2013 7:26:26 AM

Post Modernism thinking gives the green light/permission for anyone practicing any act, however damaging or horrendous. If nothing is "wrong" or a "sin", then everything is "alright", right?? The Constitution of the United states was never intended to give the green light to perversion and acts that would harm the society it was written for. Its intent was to protect, safeguard and uphold the rights of every individual to the pursuit of freedom within the bounds of civil obedience to mores, cultural norms and natural order.

Exactly How what two consenting adults do in the privacy of there home damaging or horrendous? The Constitution also never mentioned abolishing slavery interracial marriage or a woman's right to vote until it was amended.It was written to protect the rights of all citizen's it does not speak of "cultural norms".

There is one glaring difference between religions and I've studied them all to reach my own conclusions, only Christianity offers Christ, born of a virgin, crucified to bear our sins before a Holy God to make a clear path for us to the right hand of God, and risen from the dead to live again and sit as our "lawyer" at the right hand of the Father Creator to intercede for us.

You would be wrong Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:
Event Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Conception: By a virgin. There is some doubt about this matter By a virgin. 3
Father: Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).
Mother: Isis-Meri. 4 Miriam (now often referred to as Mary).
Foster father: Seb, (a.k.a. Jo-Seph). 4 Joseph.
Foster father's ancestry: Of royal descent. Of royal descent.
Birth location: In a cave. In a cave or stable.
Annunciation: By an angel to Isis, his mother. By an angel to Miriam, his mother. 3
Birth heralded by: The star Sirius, the morning star. An unidentified "star in the East."
Birth date: Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Born during the fall. However, his birth date is now celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.
Birth announcement: By angels. By angels. 3
Birth witnesses: Shepherds. Shepherds. 3
Later witnesses to birth: Three solar deities. An unknown number of wise men. 3 They are said to have brought three gifts; thus the legend grew that there were three men.
Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. He was not successful. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered. He was not successful.
Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
Rite of passage ritual: Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored. Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.
Age at the ritual: 12 12
Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. No data between ages of 12 & 30.
Baptism location: In the river Eridanus. In the river Jordan.
Age at baptism: 30. 30.
Baptized by: Anup the Baptiser. John the Baptist, a.k.a. John the Baptist.
Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Beheaded.

It really IS that simple and the Bible IS the only true communication to be trusted between God and man, who is made in His image

That is your belief not a fact. As for legalizing gay marriage the same was said about interracial marriage.I am a heterosexual man why should my fellow citizens not be treated equally?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
Hunting pics
Posted: 3/27/2013 2:18:41 PM

My question is do men really think that we gals want to see a pic of them holding a dead dear head or fish???

Some guys do some guys don't. I don't hunt I tried deer hunting didn't like it.I'm not against people hunting just not my thing. I like fishing however.

Are we suppose to see that and go all squishy for the guy???

How a woman or man for that matter is going to go all squishy is beyond me They probably like that they have a common interest.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 255 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 3/27/2013 9:42:28 AM

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

[Genesis 6:4]

The Cardiff Giant, 1869

The Cardiff Giant on display in the Farmer's Museum, Cooperstown, New York.
The Cardiff Giant, a gigantic ten-foot tall stone man, emerged out of the ground and into American life on October 16, 1869, when he was discovered by some workers digging a well behind the barn of William C. "Stub" Newell in Cardiff, New York. Word of his presence quickly spread, and soon thousands of people were making the journey out to Stub Newell's farm to see the colossus. Even when Newell began charging fifty cents a head to have a look at it, people still kept coming.

Speculation ran rampant over what the giant might be. The central debate was between those who thought it was a petrified man and those who believed it to be an ancient statue. The 'petrifactionists' theorized that it was one of the giants mentioned in the Bible, Genesis 6:4, where it says, "There were giants in the earth in those days." Those who promoted the statue theory followed the lead of Dr. John F. Boynton, who speculated that a Jesuit missionary had carved it sometime during the seventeenth century to impress the local indians.

A sketch of the Giant made in 1869 as it lay on display in Cardiff, New York.
The truth was somewhat more prosaic. It was actually the creation of an enterprising New York tobacconist named George Hull. The idea of burying a stone giant in the ground occurred to him after he got into an argument with a methodist Reverend about whether the Bible should be taken literally. Hull, an atheist, didn't think it should. But the Reverend disagreed. The Reverend insisted that even the passage where it says 'there were giants in the earth in those days' should be read as a literal fact. According to Hull, after this discussion he immediately "thought of making a stone, and passing it off as a petrified man." He figured he could not only use the fake giant to poke fun at Biblical literalists, but also make some money.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 13 (view)
why was the new pope chosen?
Posted: 3/25/2013 12:53:05 PM
Because the majority of Catholic's are in South America.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 31 (view)
would you turn down a relationship with someone who believes in a God?
Posted: 3/25/2013 12:45:53 PM
would you turn down a relationship with someone who believes in a God?

No But if they are a proselytizer or every minute of the day is about Jesus,Mohammed etc then no thank you.If they want to go to church,temple etc feel free but I am not going.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 65 (view)
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/22/2013 7:35:39 AM
Anyone trying to explain this away as "boy's will be boys" has a screw loose. As for rape culture my god what is wrong with some of you people? As for these football stars they should have got 10 yrs!This is the same old b.s. she asked for it, really held down drunk out of her mind? My god!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 100 (view)
Classical Music
Posted: 3/18/2013 7:12:06 PM

This is a symphonic poem I'm working on. These are the best sounds I can get with my music program.

I just came across this thread you have talent. It sounds medieval in a good way to me with some Irish thrown in.

As for listening to classic music I like Tchaikovsky 18 12 overture my favorite!
Vivaldi the four seasons
Wagner especially flight of the valkyries
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 228 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 3/15/2013 12:02:58 PM

We need more posters like this, rather than the abundance of defensive, destructive, cynical, claw-your-way-to-the-top, anything-to-stroke-my-ego outbursts designed to humiliate and ridicule other people.

Like calling people who don't accept your words as fact sheeple?I visited David Icke's site you provided. IMO anyone who takes him seriously has problems just my opinion.Do I believe intelligent life is somewhere in the Universe? I do.

Can all Unidentified Flying objects be explained away,No they can't be.Science is discovering new planet's all the time.
But when it comes to Alien shape shifter's I am going to refute it until you provide evidence.I can claim I saw Bigfoot but without providing any proof it is a claim nothing more.

And here is the 1978 sighting that was seen around the world are they alien spacecraft no idea but something very strange is going on here.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 20 (view)
NYC cannibal cop; found guilty!
Posted: 3/14/2013 8:57:15 AM

eeeewwww I forgot about that movie.. it was Charleston Heston right???

We have a winner it was also Edward G. Robinson's last role he played Sol.
As far as the law I'm no lawyer but apparently he was talking to other degenerates on the internet on cannibalism and had the names of the woman He wanted to eat written down. What a sociopath!
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 8 (view)
NYC cannibal cop; found guilty!
Posted: 3/13/2013 1:22:49 PM
Soylent green is people.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 76 (view)
Would you vote for an Atheist president?
Posted: 3/13/2013 1:08:51 PM

My hope before I die......also a woman..........a woman atheist would be perfect :)
I don't trust the pres we have now.........being muslim.......with his middle name Hussein......
and people wonder why things are so fuked up...........................................................

Yes a woman President is due. Well you have every right not to trust the President if He was or is Muslim so what! There is no article in the Constitution that forbids any religion or lack there of. I hope your not a birther?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 41 (view)
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 3/13/2013 1:03:25 PM
Religion is causing a war right now. And Muslims are waging it against western civilization. The ones who are, and the ones who either actively or tacitly support them, are very lucky their main targets--the United States and Israel--are civilized nations. Anyone who doubts that should ask himself, if Germany had won the war and developed an arsenal of thirty thousand nuclear weapons as the U.S. did, what Hitler would have done to any country where there were Muslim fanatics crazy enough to threaten and murder Germans. The answer is obvious--he would have blown the fanatics to dust, and the whole country with them, before the day was out.

Well there wouldn't be an Israel if the Nazis won the war now would there.

If the U.S. nuked all those countries get ready for radiation around the world.Very interesting post however.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 518 (view)
Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 3/8/2013 11:56:05 AM

Is this argument over? Did I win?

It was a slam-dunk! Thank you for the rational explanation.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 154 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 3/6/2013 8:02:21 AM

Jed no doubt the UFO thing brings the nutcases out. The one's I can't dismiss are the astronauts and pilots with long histories of flight time. They have to undergo continuous health reevaluations so I tend to give their anecdotes more creedence.
As would I especially airline pilots and yes some of the astronauts There were the Lubbock lights that were never explained. There was the sighting in England at an American airbase.But these conspiracy sights no wonder people who claim to have seen something unexplainable are labeled nutcases.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 151 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 3/6/2013 7:16:02 AM
I have one question. Are we to assume all the people who came forward who were astronauts, pilots, presidents, government contractors, civilians, researchers, passengers on planes, military, etc. that all of them every single one of them is not telling the truth? Take the Phoenix lights for example. The ex governor of the state came forward and said he was told to lie about what he and thousands saw. Do you think they all working in collusion? Why would a Japanese pilot with 20 years of flight time in passenger planes come forward and testify he saw an alien craft which did things mankind made craft couldnt do? I guess they all are not telling the truth? Or maybe just one of them has to be telling the truth

They are telling the truth in the sense they have seen an unidentified flying object There are some compelling accounts especially the film taken near Australia that was worldwide news in the early 80's I recall. My point is we have people here making outrageous claims humanity has been invaded the reptilian shape shifters cmon!I keep an open mind is it possible that alien aircraft have visited earth possibly but to make outrageous claims with nothing but fairy tales is disingenuous to say the least.Were supposed to take these tales as proof?There are also photographs taken over an island I believe near Brazil I cant remember that does make one wonder.And yes the Phoenix lights there were compelling eyewitnesses however they made no claims of "Invasion" or mibs. I'm waiting to see if peter comes up with the hollow earth tale or Nazi moon bases.And no all people are not liar's but on these conspiracy websites they feed off one conspiracy to another. There is another author Bill Cooper titled Behold a Pale horse I have read it the man needs help He also attacks any other ufologist who disagrees with him as being government agents. And the conspiracy continues.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 149 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 3/6/2013 6:45:05 AM
To the poster Jed456, who insists that we bring proof about UFOs and alien life to his table so that he may consider it - man, you're not worth it. You are overreaching yourself here. I would rather watch paint dry than try to convince you of anything. Frankly, I wouldn't even try to convince you that this is the year 2013. Whether you believe in UFOs and alien civilizations, or whether you don't, it makes zero difference to my life. But I can tell from your harangues that you have done your independent research and weighed the evidence most carefully to make your appraisals.

Since you seem to have all the answers where is the proof? Because you have none?The only people I see around here who are sheeple is you.There probably exists alien civilizations somewhere in the universe but im certainly not going to listen to people like Icke who is a raving nut job I notice you have no rebuttal to the majestic 12 documents you flap your gums make outrageous claims and were supposed to believe all this nonsense?Next up will be the Bilderburg's,the Illuminati and area 51 or the shape shifting reptilians yes its 2013 are you aware or are you still living in 2525?Humanity has been invaded? Proof please.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 9 (view)
Women in the military
Posted: 3/5/2013 11:46:54 AM
Is it mainly because I'm temporarily out of country, or is it military in general? Would you personally have any qualms about dating a female in the military? Just curious as to how guys feel about it...

First thank you for your service. I wouldn't date a female in the military In the back of my mind would be when is she deploying? When is she returning? Plus worrying if she is going to get killed overseas too much for me.Plus the long distance relationship and the amount of deployment's the government send's our troops on is mind boggling.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 507 (view)
Do you believe we landed on the moon?
Posted: 3/5/2013 8:51:04 AM
Yes The United States landed on the moon. Jesus where do people come up with this crap?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 119 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 2/24/2013 7:42:54 PM
So in other word's,I have to take your word for it without a shred of proof,I understand. Take care.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 117 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 2/24/2013 2:26:24 PM
Aside from the suspicious origins of the Majestic-12 papers, there are several problems with the documents themselves.

The Date: Military documents were formatted using strict guidelines, including the structure of dates. At the time the MJ-12 briefing was alleged to have been written, the format was day month year. No commas, no place-holding zeros. But the date in the MJ-12 document used a day month (comma) year format. This brief was supposedly generated at the very highest level of the military; a level that would not have made such a fundamental error in format.

Hillenkoetter's Rank: The document refers to "Admiral" Hillenkoetter, when his true rank was REAR Admiral. In casual speech or among civilians this error might occur, but a military man would never make such an error. It was the military that wrote the brief.

Verbiage: Two terms used in the document were not in use during the 50's. The word "media" to refer to the Press did not appear until the 70's. Likewise the term "impacted".

Security: The Cutler-Twining memo is stamped "Top Secret Restricted Information". There was no such classification in 1954. Not until the Nixon era was this classification used.

Code Word MAJIC: This appears to be the code name assigned to this project. However, this would constitute a major violation of the code naming scheme used by the military for well over a decade.

Secure projects are assigned code names from a one-time use list that is shared by all parts of the military and civilian government bodies. Just prior to WWII, the code name MAGIC was assigned to the effort to break the high security Japanese diplomatic code. The project was still under the wraps of Top Secret in the early 50's so it could not be "re-used". Yet, here we have the term MAJIC being applied to the Majestic-12, an assignment that clearly could not happen.

MJ-12 proponents point to the different spelling, but the code list was constructed to avoid phonetic similarities that could cause confusion in oral communications. It would appear that the author(s) of the Majestic briefing papers were conscious of the newly de-classified story of the MAGIC operation when this was concocted.

There are several other points that one might accurately call minor, but when you take all these errors together in one set of documents, the coincidence level redlines.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 61 (view)
Why manly when a woman works out?
Posted: 2/24/2013 1:05:47 PM
Well then good luck in your search.
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 116 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 2/24/2013 1:02:48 PM
If you did in fact work at the pentagon where is your proof documents,letter's photos?
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 115 (view)
Why should I believe in aliens?
Posted: 2/24/2013 12:58:42 PM
The New Bogus Majestic-12 Documents


Special Report
Philip J. Klass
Volume 24.3, May / June 2000

The new crashed-saucer documents, like their 1987 predecessors, are riddled with flaws.

“Majestic Twelve"-better known as “MJ-12"-first achieved international fame in the world of UFOlogy in mid-1987. It was then that UFOlogist William L. Moore and two associates made public three (purportedly) “Top Secret” documents which indicated that President Harry Truman had created a super-secret MJ-12 group forty years earlier to deal with extraterrestrial (ET) visitors. Truman’s (alleged) action was prompted by an alleged crashed-ET craft that had been covertly recovered near Roswell in mid-1947.

The Roswell crashed-saucer claim had been the centerpiece of a book published seven years earlier (1980) which Moore had coauthored with Charles Berlitz. (Berlitz previously authored a book describing the “mysterious dangers” of the Bermuda Triangle.)

Recently, a large batch of additional “Top Secret Majestic Documents” have emerged, provided by another UFOlogist named Tim Cooper, who claims he obtained them from several covert sources. Their authenticity has been endorsed by Robert Wood, a respected, retired McDonnell Douglas scientist and his son Ryan. (Wood is a member of the nine-person Executive Council of Peter Sturrock’s Society for Scientific Exploration.) Based on the Woods’ assessment, wealthy Silicon Valley software expert Joe Firmage, who recently revealed his conviction that some UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors, also endorsed Cooper’s documents in mid-1999.

However, on November 25 the International Space Sciences Organization (ISSO), which Firmage recently created to pursue his UFO interests, issued a statement that “ongoing research indicates that many, possibly all, the so-called MJ-12 UFO documents were officially fabricated as instruments of U.S. covert psychological warfare . . .” (emphasis added). This is ridiculous! The new Cooper documents, like their 1987 predecessors, are so riddled with flaws that they could never fool Soviet or Chinese intelligence experts. Even some long-time pro-UFOlogists have denounced them as obvious counterfeits.

One of the original MJ-12 documents released by Moore and his two partners (UFO lecturer Stanton Friedman and TV producer Jaime Shandera) purported to be a memo from President Truman to Defense Secretary James Forrestal, dated September 24, 1947, which authorized the creation of the MJ-12 group. My investigation revealed that the Truman signature was a pasted-on photocopy of a genuine signature-including accidental scratch marks-from a memo that Truman wrote to Vannevar Bush on October 1, 1947 (see “New evidence of MJ-12 hoax,” SI 14[2], Winter 1990).

A second MJ-12 document released by Moore et al. purported to be a November 18, 1952, briefing for President-elect Eisenhower, prepared by Rear Admiral R.H. Hillenkoetter, who had been director of the CIA and, purportedly, was now head of MJ-12. There were numerous flaws in the “Eisenhower Briefing Document” (EBD), the most obvious being its reference to the (bogus) Truman memo of September 24, 1947.

Further, the EBD repeatedly used a very unusual date-format-a hybrid combination of civil and military formats with a superfluous comma, i.e., 18 November, 1952. This unusual hybrid date-format was one repeatedly used by William L. Moore in his personal letters - until I pointed out this “curious coincidence” in my first article debunking the original MJ-12 papers (see SI 12[2], Winter 1987-1988). The third of the MJ-12 documents made public by Moore et al. in mid-1987 purported to be a brief memo, dated July 14, 1954, from Robert Cutler to USAF Chief of Staff General Twining informing him of change of date to brief the President on the "MJ-12 Special Studies Project.” Investigation revealed that on the date that Cutler allegedly wrote the memo, he was out of the country. Moore claimed that he and Shandera had found the Cutler memo in an unlikely location when they visited the National Archives. The memo, which had been double-folded, could easily have been carried into the Archives in Moore’s or Shandera’s coat pocket. Less than two years before Moore made public the initial MJ-12 papers-on April 16, 1983-he had confided to then-close friend and UFOlogist Brad Sparks that he was contemplating creating and releasing some hoax Top Secret documents-as first revealed in the March 1997 issue of my Skeptics UFO Newsletter. Moore explained to Sparks that he hoped such bogus documents would encourage former military and intelligence officials who knew about the government’s (alleged) UFO coverup to break their oaths of secrecy. Sparks strongly recommended against the idea.

It was not until nearly seven years after release of the original MJ-12 documents that a new “MJ-12 document” surfaced on March 14, 1994. On that date, Don Berliner, a long-time pro-UFOlogist, received in the mail an undeveloped roll of 35 mm film from an anonymous source. When the film was processed, Berliner found photos of what purported to be copies of pages from a “Top Secret/MAJIC/Eyes Only” special operations manual (SOM 1-01) intended to inform military crews how to recover crashed saucers and their ET crews. SOM 1-01, purportedly printed in April 1954, contains many flaws. For example, it stated that crashed ET craft should be sent to “Area 51 S-4” in Nevada. But that portion of Nellis Air Force Base was not given the name “Area 51” until several years after SOM 1-01 allegedly was printed.

As a result of numerous flaws in SOM 1-01, a statement denouncing it as counterfeit was released on March 14, 1999. It was signed by Berliner and several other prominent pro-UFOlogists. By this time, a new batch of more than a dozen Majestic documents obtained from Tim Cooper had recently been made public by Robert Wood and his son Ryan at a UFO conference in Connecticut. They had strongly endorsed the authenticity of the documents, although Wood admitted that there were flaws in them. But he claimed that these anomalies “tend to indicate authenticity. . . . [Document] hoaxers generally try to make sure they are perfect.”

No mention was made by Wood that his long-time good friend, UFO lecturer Friedman - who remains one of the staunchest supporters of the original MJ-12 documents - had earlier investigated several of Cooper’s documents and concluded that at least one was counterfeit. Friedman had reported his findings and suspicions about other Cooper documents in his book Top Secret/MAJIC, published three years earlier.

British UFOlogist Timothy Good, who in 1987 had strongly endorsed the authenticity of the original MJ-12 documents in his best-selling pro-UFO book Above Top Secret, has more recently characterized them as bogus, largely on the basis of the phony signature on the Truman memo of September 24, 1947. But in the early 1990s, prior to Good’s disavowal of the original MJ-12 papers, he began to receive some of the “new” Majestic documents from Cooper.

Good’s suspicions about the new Cooper documents were aroused by some factual anomalies in their content. More important, Good noted that mechanical flaws in the typewriter Cooper had used to write two letters on October 4 and October 7, 1991, resembled those of the typewriter used for one of his Majestic documents, allegedly typed in 1952. At my request, Good provided me with copies of Cooper’s two letters for analysis.

Cooper’s two 1991 letters to Good not only had the same typeface as the (purported) 1952 Top Secret MJ-12 Annual Report, but more importantly the upper-case (capital) G and N were slightly elevated relative to the adjacent lower-case letters. However, an experienced questioned document examiner informed me that it was conceivable, though unlikely, that both Cooper and the 1952 document typist might have failed to depress the “shift key” to its lowest possible position when typing G and N.

Figure 1. “Elevated 8” in Cooper’s letters and in one of his “MJ-12 documents.”

Top: Cooper’s letters of October 4 and 7, 1991 (enlarged slightly)

Bottom: From Cooper’s “MJ-12 Annual Report" rdquo; (enlarged slightly)

However, both Cooper’s letters and the 1952 document also have an “elevated 8"-which does not require the use of the typewriter’s shift-key (see figure 1). This curious coincidence was reported in the November 1999 issue of Skeptics UFO Newsletter, a copy of which was provided to Wood. His response of December 13 (via e-mail) was: “The question is whether that ["elevated-8"] is a characteristic of that typewriter design as distinguished from any particular machine serial number. We need other examples from the same typewriter design and I would hope to find some.”

In other words, Wood suggests that this mechanical flaw was a possible uncorrected characteristic of all of the typewriters produced by this manufacturer for at least several decades. Nothing further has been heard from Wood on this key issue since mid-December 1999.

Meanwhile, Tim Cooper posted a lengthy treatise on the Internet on December 30, offering his assessment of his “new Majestic documents.” Highlights of Cooper’s views are quoted below:

The question of whether they [Cooper’s documents] are genuine, authentic, or real is not the issue here. The important point . . . is the information contained in the documents themselves. . . . In my own humble opinion, the Majestic documents are basically reliable as far as content is concerned with the exception of the questionable hypothesis that there are other intelligent, thinking, machine building cultures visiting planet earth on a regular, day to day basis [emphasis added].

Yet the opening page of the Web site that the Woods have created to promote MJ-12 states: “The Majestic Documents: Evidence That We Are Not Alone. Curious about the documentary record of military and government participation with UFOs, wreckage retrieval, and extraterrestrials? This site is all about it! The documents, the forensics, the military and intelligence history, and stunning validating evidence. Join us on a journey into the beyond Top Secret world that a government cabal has been hiding since 1941." rdquo; (One of Cooper’s documents claims a crashed saucer was recovered in the spring of 1941 near Cape Girardeau, Missouri, six years before the alleged Roswell Incident. If true, the Eisenhower Briefing Document completely forgot to mention this historic event.)
Philip J. Klass

Phil Klass was a UFO researcher with a background in electrical engineering. He was author of seven books on UFOs, including UFOs Explained and UFO Abductions: A Dangerous Game. He was also editor of the SUN newsletter, a UFO-related publication.

Some more interesting facts The MJ-12 papers soon began to take a severe battering from the skeptics. The typewriter that was used to type the Truman "Executive Order" of 1947 was deemed a Smith-Corona model that had not been manufactured until 1963. The signature on the memorandum had apparently been photocopied from an unrelated letter from Truman to Vannevar Bush written on 1 October 1947. And other anomalies were noted and published in the various media. The documents, apparently, were fake
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