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 Author Thread: Odd man out
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 27 (view)
Odd man out
Posted: 9/9/2017 11:51:05 PM

So, would it kill these couples to have a lunch or dinner with me too ?

Actually, it is up to you to call your friends and say "Hey, haven't seen you in awhile. Let's go have lunch/dinner." Why? Because most people who are in a relationship assume that inviting a single friend along will leave them feeling like the odd man out AT THE LUNCH OR DINNER. It is called being a third wheel. People complain about that quite frequently.... being a third wheel along for a date.

Here is another way of thinking about it. Do you always invite your single friends along when you go on a date? Why not? I don't know about you and your relationships in the past, but most people... once they pair up... they rarely have time for anything that doesn't involve their significant other first. That's kind of why they decided to pair up... to be able to focus on their partner better. They aren't single any more, so they aren't really going to do things that single people do... like, hanging out with friends.

Then there is the fact that most couples want couples' friends. They don't want an odd number of people. Two couples. Then, when one pair is talking/interacting, there is still another pair of people that can interact with each other, rather than one person being left out.

But to act like some love sick teenager who forgets all about his friends....I believe that falls into the fairweather category.

Don't go redefining common things to suit how you feel. It is most certainly not a matter of a fairweather friend. It is the matter of two people who have decided to dedicate MOST of their time to their partner. That's a relationship. That's why they paired up... so they could spend the majority of their time with their partner. And... if marriage comes of it, then that pairing? That becomes a matter of the money being shared, the living space being shared, transportation being shared, food being shared... it is a meshing of two individuals into a single couple... a single entity.

There is a get together this Saturday for someone's birthday but I'm seriously considering not going so I don't have to be the lone single guy aka worthless POS who should be taken out back and put out of his misery

This is YOU saying that YOU don't want to get together with couples, because of how you are making yourself feel. Also, it is another view of how you are expecting your friends who have paired up, to now make special concessions for you. They are supposed to go out of their way to take the fact that you are single into account, and try harder to make you feel included. That's wrong. It isn't their responsibility.

If you are feeling alone, go out and meet more people. If you have no more single friends, go out and make more single friends. When did that cease to be your responsibility? Why did that cease to be your responsibility? Your paired friends? They now have a responsibility to their new partner OVER you. Why? Do you have sex with those friends? Do you keep them warm at night with your body heat? Do you cook their favorite breakfast or supper?

You are expecting some kind of loyalty here, but I'm not seeing anything you've posted that expresses you being loyal to your friends. Because being loyal would mean being understanding... and being understanding means you realize that this is how it goes. People pair up, their focus becomes the relationship, marriage, kids, etc, etc.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 37 (view)
LADIES - First Date Question
Posted: 9/9/2017 11:19:27 PM

I understand what you're saying, but still feel the way I do.

... and you are entitled to feel however you feel. Unfortunately, you can't redefine words like "materialistic" because you don't like how it makes you look. You are concerned with money first... that's materialistic, regardless of how you feel about it. So, go ahead and feel however you want to feel. Just be honest about it, rather than worry about how it makes you look. If you feel angry, but you put on a happy face, that's actually manipulative. Instead of being honest with how you feel, you repack it as something else, so you can get what you want. It doesn't matter if you don't feel materialistic.... when you let the amount of money a guy spends on you decide whether he is worth dating, that's materialism no matter how much you insist that it isn't.

Also... setting the imaginary bar, for them to meet your personal definition of the word date? That's a bit controlling.

Money isn't the issue unless I see it is an issue for the guy that doesn't want to spend a few pennies or be creative either.

... see, here we are. A few pennies. Meaning that by this definition that you've put down... your words... a date taking you to McDonald's is perfectly fine with you. Yet, we all know that it isn't. You wouldn't stand for a first date at McDonalds, no matter how "creative" he tried to be. Yet, there you are, being manipulative, saying "spend a few pennies" when you know you would demand dollars be spent instead. Oh, I'm sure you'd respond with something like "I was just using a phrase" or "you know what I mean".... but in point of fact, it is another example of you being a bit dishonest in favor of sculpting your image here. Few pennies... more like Few Hundred Dollars.

Men who have nothing listed for a first date obviously don't want to take you on one.

Really? Because it could also mean they want to leave that decision up to the woman, so she has a better time. It could also mean that they don't honestly know ahead of time... because they want to get to know the woman and see what she likes AFTER communicating with her, and then figuring out where to go on a first date. Personally, I'm not going to take a woman somewhere she doesn't want to go, just because that's what I put in my "First Date" text box. It could also mean that the guy isn't that articulate in detailing this kind of thing. It most certainly does NOT automatically mean that he doesn't want to take you on a date.

Yes, I am supposing a lot of things by not seeing first date filled in which is why they should be filling it in or I am going to think what is probably true about them, that they don't want to date anymore.

You are going to think what is probably true about them? That's a bag of assumptive crazy cats there.... because of course, COMMUNICATING with the guy and getting to know them, that's off the table. Interesting. You want all the proper answers to be there, ahead of time, on the guy's dating profile. Like... he knows ahead of time all the things you want to hear and read. Interesting. Not just a matter of seeing whether there are SOME compatibilities... if everything doesn't line up right with what you want then the guy isn't being truthful (you are going to think what is probably true about them, so the truth can't be in the profile). Wow.

The men complain that coffee seems like an interview yet that was their choice. Think part of the problem is so many men have no interests and they don't want to go out and do anything, even if it's something that doesn't cost anything. They're just slugs.

... and this is from your dating experience, or just more assumptions on your part, to justify in your mind why you continue to feel and think as you do? Or more assumptions based on an empty first date text box?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 8 (view)
How to Help Guy Who Hide Stress?
Posted: 8/22/2017 5:33:46 PM
Here's one of the biggest mistakes people are making these days. Stop trying to create your perfect partner.

You can call it whatever you want. You can rephrase it in any way that you like that makes the justification better... but what you are doing here, is trying to create a partner. You aren't trying to find one. You are trying to make one.

You found someone that is broken. You believe you can help him heal and become the man you see inside him. You see such potential in him. You just know there are things he has to change, and heal from, and leave behind, and grow into. You see those things, and you want to help him. And... you'll be there every step of the way so he will appreciate it, and come to love you in that really, steadfast, depending/dependable kind of way. Right?

Yeah. That doesn't work.

If he isn't who you want to be with, right then and there... then move on. I did not say anything about "perfect".... but I'll come back to that word. No. I'm talking about loving someone for who they are, versus loving someone for who you think they can become. See, that potential you see in him actually has very little to do with him. Seriously. It has far more to do with YOU, and how you believe he has the potential to be a man YOU could be with. You are seeing it more through the filter of him being your man, than you are just seeing him for who he is.

Now, before you disagree, or say that you just want to help him... stop and think about that for a moment. If he is moving 3000 miles away... what do you expect to be able to do to be able to help him? Don't say "I don't know, that's why I'm asking." Apply some common sense. The big things that reduce stress... really depend on the individual. I was going to say sex, for one... but if I look at myself as an example, sex causes me chest pain, and makes the entire event stressful, which by itself creates chest pain, so sex for ME increases stress. For many people, sex reduces stress... unless getting it when you want it becomes an issue, and then sex is creating stress. Sex is too intense? Hugs reduce stress for many people, right? But he's going to be 3000 miles away.

Do you want to pay for his Netflix and Hulu accounts, so you know he'll always have a movie to relax with... and he won't have to stress over paying those bills? Do you want to pay for his phone, so he doesn't have to stress over being connected? Hell, you could send him a Tracfone and a box of assorted cards (to add minutes AND push their expiration date back), so he doesn't think you are trying to monitor how he uses his phone. But paying for that would reduce stress. UNLESS, he's too proud for that, and wouldn't accept charity.

If you see a pattern starting to form here... it should be this. What will reduce HIS stress will depend on him personally. And, I want you to look back over what you've written here. Do you really think you've provided enough information about him to be able to figure out what might reduce his stress? Can we say that walking on the beach would reduce his stress? Does he like the beach? Will he be near one? Would skiing reduce his stress, or would hiking in the desert soothe his nerves?

Ok. He's kind, but tough. Hides pain, and whatever he considers to be weakness. He solves problems for other people, but not his own. And he's a ticking time-bomb. That's what we know about him. I'm sorry to say. That's not enough.

Bubble baths don't do it for every woman. I've met too many that turn their noses up at what might be "conventional" stress reduction for women. Not every woman likes American Chinese food either. And... here's another reason that Chinese food specifically is a bad, bad suggestion. I moved 3000 miles (from RI to WA) and I can't find any Chinese Food here that is anything like what I left behind in RI. In point of fact, the Chinese restaurants I've been to that are around here have depressed me to the point where I'll wait until I move to another state before I have Chinese food again... although I'll try to give what Seattle has to offer first before I render a final personal judgement.

If you wanted to make broad generalizations, men reduce stress by having sex, getting inebriated on something, being loud with their friends, blowing stuff up, going really fast, and having powerful tools at their disposal. So, if you want to play darts with the concept of finding out what reduces his stress, see if you can combine your resources, with that list. However, it will be a game of chance that you are playing, since if you don't know whether or not he likes any of those things, making it easy for him to do those things may or may not reduce his stress.

You did hit on one thing I thought was important though. You pointed out how he fixes everyone else's problems, while not fixing his own. So. Fix his problems. That should ease some of his stress. I'm not talking about the problems in his personality, or whether or not he smokes cigarettes. I'm not talking about fixing him to make him into a different, "better" person like I was earlier. I'm talking about the things he complains about, when he complains. If his problems are eating him alive, he must be expressing himself in some way that makes this clear. You can't assume that him being pissed off because people take advantage of him is a sign that he has another internal problem of unresolved issues with his dad. He really might be pissed because he hates the fact that he can't help people when he has no resources to help them with, and they won't contribute. If he had the resources from another source, he might not care as much if people don't pay him back... because he likes helping more than exchanging fairly.

He has to want your help. So talk to him. Not about the things you want him to change, but talk to him about what HE wants. If you are really just interested in helping him and not getting anything in return... then find out what he wants, and see how you can get it to him. In this case, it would really be about him. You seem to have put him into this category of being the kind of person who likes to make it about other people, and NOT about him. So, without being public with the details, so you can respect as best you can the concept of it not being about him in front of everyone else, try to see what you can do about getting to know what IS about him. Talk to him about what he wants... what he thinks would help him feel better about being him.

Who knows. Maybe that's all he really needs. You say he hides feelings.... maybe all he needs is someone who doesn't have an agenda, who truly just wants to listen and help. But you've really got to be honest with yourself first. Do you have an agenda? You say you admit to liking him. If you are entertaining ANY thoughts about trying to help him so the two of you will be together, that's something completely different than helping him just to help him.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 96 (view)
Sleeping with someone on the first date...are they LTR material?
Posted: 8/22/2017 4:59:09 PM
On the topic of the thread... what I'm curious about is the assumption that one indicator like this, should be used to determine suitability for a long term relationship. I'm also curious about the concept of one and only one detail being used to determine suitability.

Normally, humans on Earth have to get to know other humans, before compatibility can be determined. Is it possible to learn a detail about another person that would make you instantly say "We are not compatible!"? Absolutely. However, the opposite is NEVER true. If you learn one detail about someone, and that is the only detail you learn about them... you would never say "Well, that's all I need to know, we are completely compatible." You'd be interested, and you'd want to learn more details about them. Eventually, you'd either get to a point where you had learned ENOUGH about the person to feel that their negatives could be overlooked or accepted... or you'd learn about something you aren't compatible with, and the relationship ends.

The framing of the question itself, is very interesting. First, it is completely irresponsible. It is. Notice how it absolves the individual asking of any responsibility... If you sleep with someone on the first date, obviously YOU are the kind of person who would sleep with someone on the first date as well. So, if you are going to pass judgement on people who have sex on the first date, you HAVE to apply that same judgement to yourself. If you don't, you are a hypocrite. If you are a hypocrite, then THAT is also a likely detail used to determine suitability for many people. In fact, I can safely say that MORE people would choose not to be with a hypocrite upon learning that detail, than people deciding sex on the first date was a bad thing for the long term.

Wrap your mind around that. You just met and had sex. And you are asking yourself... Hmm... should I be in an LTR with someone who has sex on the first date? If you say "Nope, I shouldn't." you have just determined that you should remain single. It has nothing to do with your partner. You just determined that you, yourself, are unsuitable for long term relationships, because you have sex on the first date, and you don't think people like that are LTR material. You can't judge other people for having sex on the first date, if you yourself are having sex on the first date. And you are, since this is...

If you sleep with someone the first date, would you consider them LTR material?

There isn't really room here for "That's not what I meant." either. You aren't observing two other people trying to determine if their sexual history is a factor in the death of their relationship. Nope. This is a question regarding one of the two participants involved. And... unless it is rape, both parties consented to this. Thus... judgement regarding sex on the first date applies to both... if sex is had on the first date.

Now, the question isn't acknowledging culpability from the POV of the OP, like a responsible adult. That would look something like this. "If you sleep with someone on the first date, does that mean they will automatically not consider you to be LTR material?" It would be a moment of introspection. It would acknowledge most of the same information... sleeping with someone on the first date, long term relationship compatibility.... but it would also show that the individual asking the question was acknowledging that they themselves sleep with people on the first date. If they are concerned with whether or not having sex on the first date automatically takes them out of the running for an LTR, they should ask THAT question instead.

This question though. As it has been asked, this is one step away from "I have this friend who has sex on the first date. Does that mean they are not LTR material?" At least that one is transparent. This question? This one puts the blame right on the partner. No recognition of doing exactly the same thing as the partner is being judged for.

I think that's interesting.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 30 (view)
LADIES - First Date Question
Posted: 6/9/2017 1:36:26 PM

This is a dating site, not for interviews.

As many years on the planet as you've spent here so far, and you still haven't figured out that dating is one big interview? All dating is, is the initial stages where you get to know someone and you decide if you want to hire them on for a more permanent position, or if you want to continue looking for that right person to fill the right slot.

Sure. Some people like to date just for the sake of dating. And... there are people who work in HR departments doing nothing but conducting interviews, one after another. That's all they do. Interview. They invest about as much into the relationship with the person they are interviewing, as serial daters do with their dates.

A dating site is ALL ABOUT INTERVIEWS! It is all about getting to know as much about a person as you can, before you commit to attempting to communicate with them. It is about trying to get as much of the "getting to know you" out of the way as possible. It is a resumé, or cover letter for yourself, that you present to people you want to date. Just like jobs sift through all the applications that they get for the positions they need to fill, and they cull the list of candidates by what is on those applications... people sift through potential mates on dating sites. Just. Like. Applications. Sure, the questions asked and answered on them are different, but the concept is the same.

So you REALLY have a twisted view of dating. If dating sites aren't about interviews... what are they about, making purchases? They aren't about networking... far too many people are being rejected without a word for this to be about networking. Networking is about making as MANY contacts as you can, because you never know where those connections will lead, or if you might need them in the future. So, you can't fall back and say that dating sites are about networking.

Nope. The closest parallel for dating, is Employment. Dating is most definitely the Interview stage.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 165 (view)
women meeting guys just to give bj
Posted: 6/9/2017 1:25:51 PM
{I posted in this thread 9 years ago.... and there's still activity? Social Archeologists are going to have a field day with these forums in the future...}
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 202 (view)
Why are so many people disillusioned with relationships?
Posted: 5/31/2017 10:34:45 PM

Are you really sure about all of that? The whole point of modernization and progress is economy of effort. They invented the washing machine because it made laundry easier and faster than a tub and scrubbing board. They invented the vacuum cleaner because it was easier and faster than beating rugs hung on a line. Yet, you never hear criticism of Kirby or Maytag. If we are going to bemoan unwillingness to put work into a relationship, shouldn't we also insist on hand washed laundry because it requires work? Relationships were a convenience from the ancient past. Now, they cause more unnecessary work than they save. We don't need them. We can do better.

Unfortunately, your analogy lacks the modernization that eliminates the manual labor, in regards to the dating.

Where we use the washing machine to save us the work of washing by hand... or the vacuum cleaner to save the work involved with a broom... where is the Relationship Machine that we save our money to purchase, so it can do the work in our relationship instead of us doing it ourselves? You say Washing Machine... where is the relationship counterpart? Without it, your entire post is meaningless.

You never hear criticism of Kirby or Maytag? You most certainly do. Just read the reviews. The internet is full of them. And... there are more than two manufacturers involved. And, those manufacturers make different quality machines. Some washing machines do a better job than others. Some vacuum cleaners do a better job than others. Are you saying there are different quality Relationship Machines, where you can spend a PILE of money and get one that provides a great relationship, or you can spend a little money on an economy model that just handles the basics?

Where is the mechanical or electrical device that you suggest exists, due to modernization and the progression of economy of effort? It isn't the computer. Dating sites don't do it. They try to handle some of the compatibility by asking questions before hand, but that isn't foolproof. And then, some people LIE, which makes that whole process harder.

No. People expect to just FIND the right relationship, without doing the work, and without using any modern work-saving appliances.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 168 (view)
Why are so many people disillusioned with relationships?
Posted: 5/25/2017 4:21:24 AM
People forget. People want to forget, and actively seek forgetting. People don't want to remember. It is too much work.

There was a time when people knew that a relationship was something that required work and compromise... two people leaving behind their individual lives to live one life together. Sure, we talk about separate identities today, not losing oneself in another... but the truth is that a working relationship really is that. Two people lost in the task of making one life.

There are enough related examples. Take the concept of parents essentially giving up their lives as individuals to raise children. It isn't foreign. They give up their hopes and dreams and decades of their lives are spent earning the money (and doing the job) to raise the children properly and send them off into the world as adults. That's compromise and sacrifice right there. Why is so difficult to imagine that one partner would do that for the other partner?

Today, it is all about getting the relationship as close to perfect AT THE BEGINNING. Men and women are guilty of this. It might be from a physical aspect, or a financial aspect, or even from a mental aspect.... but no matter what facet you choose to example, people want to work LESS at making it the right relationship, and they want to work more at just ENJOYING the relationship. And that sounds great.

Except if you just sit there enjoying the bag of chips without any thought to the future, or your health, or replacing the chips... they won't last forever.

So many people today are disillusioned with their relationships, because they didn't put the necessary work into them and they didn't develop into the relationship they wanted. They expected it to BE perfect, without actually working to MAKE it perfect. It doesn't stop at relationships. People want the perfect car without working to earn it. People want the perfect phone without having anyone to talk to. People want the perfect house they won't spend any time in. People want the perfect job without having to work up to it... or learn anything about it. People want the perfect answers, without thinking about the questions they ask.

And people today think they are entitled to this perfection.

The fact that we elected that... muppet... to the position of POTUS... all those people buying into what would look perfect for the moment, instead of actually listening and paying attention and working at figuring out what a dangerous idiot he really is...

Most people today are all about the Greatest Payout for the Least Amount of Work. And they will argue about how there is nothing wrong with that. Which shows they actually have no appreciation of work for the sake of work... work for the sake of the satisfaction.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 15 (view)
LADIES - First Date Question
Posted: 5/24/2017 5:01:45 PM

Intelligent and ambitious don't always equal a good salary.

Exactly. So why the expectation for him to always pay? Why write him off if he wants to be creative instead of just trying to impress her with more than dinner at Wendy's for $35. What if he is intelligent and ambitious, and broke? Why wouldn't you pay for dinner then?

So.. if he invites you over to HIS house for that home cooked meal, you've got no problem with that for the first date, right?

I want to look into the person's face. I see lack of making that small investment is indicative of a person who just doesn't care or is cheap.
Spin it any way you want. You are still describing yourself as being materialistic. Think about it this way. If you were completely honest on your profile, saying something like "I am materialistic, and if you aren't going to spend the money and time on me that I think is appropriate, I won't be calling you back." you'd get fewer results. However, you won't be that honest on your profile, because you know how that comes across.

Yet if you DID say something like that on your profile, the positive responses you'd get would be men more likely to pay for everything.

You want to be taken care of in the relationship. That's why you'd like that first date to be something like YOU making dinner in YOUR place where you have more control over the evening. You want to show your date how you can take care of them, so they will turn around and show you how they will take care of you. A solid variation on "You show me yours, if I'll show you mine."

I'm not trying to convince you to change. You are who you are, and you can be who you want to be. But you are attempting to perpetuate a concept from over 50 years ago, and times have changed. Men are raising children and taking care of the house more and more these days.

How do you actually get to know the guy, when you discount him immediately because he doesn't meet superficial standards? I get it. You don't want to date someone who makes less than you.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 28 (view)
Solution: Cleanliness & Manners
Posted: 5/22/2017 10:05:55 PM
Ok. Well, I was expecting gaslighting from Cowboy, but you chose to hit me with some instead.

For the love of gawd I can not begin to understand why so many are struggling here?

... so if he can't understand why people struggle, what makes him think that his advice is worth anything to those who struggle? He doesn't understand! His own friggin words.

So, when you open with this...

OKAY - I will start by saying you in particular ( perhaps not everyone who has problems ) have misinterpreted/misunderstood how on line dating sites work, AND what Cowboy and I have emphasized about using such sites. It's not magic.

... anything else that comes out of you is totally worthless to me.

I understood. I still understand. You are gaslighting. And... here you are, attempting to use SHAMING as well to make yourself appear to be correct.

You assume people have trouble if they lie... who said anything about lying?

I don't know that you are correct that the phrase "it is easy" was not spoken by you, in this thread, in relation to the idea of networking and getting along with people, meeting new people, interacting, etc. But I'll trust that you did not say that exact phrase.

But you did say that it isn't magic. That *IMPLIES* that it is easy. That *IMPLIES* that it shouldn't be seen as something difficult and mystical. So sure. You didn't say it was easy. Cowboy did say plenty of OTHER things that said it shouldn't be difficult, and it doesn't have to be difficult, and whatnot. And you've said things as well that imply and put forward the concept that it isn't difficult.

But I'll agree. You did not say that "it was easy". I'll agree you did not say those words.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 20 (view)
How can you tell a catfish?
Posted: 5/22/2017 9:54:37 PM
Today, you can't even guarantee that the gender of the individual you are seeing on the screen is even what they claim it to be. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being transgender... but unless someone says up front "Yeah, I was a man, but now I'm a woman", they could be using that Skype session with you to practice their new identity... to see if you even pick up on who they are over who they were.

Or... there could be no transgender issues at all... and you could be Skyping with someone who likes to play dress up.

I can't fully get behind gut instinct, only because there are a plethora of people on the planet who have been let down by their gut instincts. Like... how people will reject themselves before they get rejected... because their gut tells them they are going to get rejected. They create the situation they feared, because of that feeling in their gut.

I'm not saying that gut instinct is bad. I guess I'm saying that it *HAS* to be a combination of things. I can appreciate instinct telling you that something isn't right... and then you proceed to find OTHER things to confirm what you feel.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 24 (view)
Solution: Cleanliness & Manners
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:32:46 PM

I find it FUNNY every time some poster groans, gripes, and writhes all over the floor about how they are a disaster at getting dates on POF.

This is because you are creating the situation that amuses you. Do you know why the posters whine, groan, gripe, and whatnot? Because people like you and Cowboy keep telling everyone that it is easy.

So when these people can't make it work with a person of the opposite sex, and they keep getting assaulted with bullshit like how easy it is to meet, talk to, and get to know people.... in their heads, they feel like a loser and failure BECAUSE of the few people who keep perpetuating the myth that it is a simple procedure.

For every one person like you who has no problem conversing and being social, there are hundreds who aren't like you and struggle. How about acknowledging that you are in a minority in this respect, based on the overwhelming evidence available on the internet that shows how those like you are fewer in number compared to people who have trouble.

If it was so easy, dating sites wouldn't exist. If it was so easy, people wouldn't need help. And they obviously do need help.

So I find it absolutely horrifying that people like yourself want to shame others like this. I'm sorry we amuse you. That's a crappy sense of humor that you've got there. But... then again... movies and shows like Jackass where people get hurt and made fun of are pretty popular, so I guess it is relatively normal that you find the pain of others to be amusing.

And this is where you gaslight, and try to spin what you said in the opposite direction. Go.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18 (view)
How can you tell a catfish?
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:06:03 PM

Ask to Skype

Four months, and only one person actually picks up on how without motion video, there is no way to tell if someone is catfishing you about their appearance. Phone doesn't mean anything. I've spoken with women who sound like men, and men who sound like women... and people successfully fake voices all the time.

I got specific on being catfished on their appearance... claiming to look like someone they are not.

As to how to tell if someone is catfishing another over their identity? You can look at their ID, if you can tell the difference between a fake and a valid ID. You can look at their ID and trust how official it looks to you. You can run their fingerprints to see if they are in any databases anywhere. If some guy tells you his name is Steve in a webcam call... knowing whether or not he is lying is really no different from determining if the guy at the bar is really named Steve or not.

The general rule is, if it isn't "in person", it isn't real. Video can ASSIST in making that as close to being "in person" as possible, which means that over a distance, video can help prove if some of what is being claimed, is true. Only some, though.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 26 (view)
Feeling stucky
Posted: 5/16/2017 1:06:27 PM

he should get some dooby-lerm.

State by state, the country is picking up the ball on this.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 34 (view)
slept with a girl from work...bad idea
Posted: 5/16/2017 1:00:52 PM

she said she felt anxious about the whole situation and couldn't give me 100% blah blah blah...So fine..."I'll move on" I said. It's been over 2 months now and she won't even look at me at work even tho it was HER IDEA to end things.

To be clear... while you were involved, she was uncomfortable with the idea that she was going to have to see you at work, knowing what she knows about you and having had that relationship with you. She tells you that she is anxious.

So. She won't look at you at work. What did you expect? Did you expect her to just forget it happened, and go back to being what she was before? That's a little two dimensional if you did expect that.

She made a WRONG decision to get involved with you. She may have felt like it was wrong when she made it, or she may have developed that feeling after getting to know you. Either way, she realized that she made the wrong decision.

She felt awkward BEFORE you two stopped being involved. Don't you get that? You aren't making this any easier by still putting pressure on her to act a certain way. You are here, pretty upset about how she won't even look at you and you want to go to HR and punish her for making work uncomfortable because of her attitude...

Dude.. WTF? Where is the responsibility YOU bear in even starting this relationship in a place where you shouldn't have? If there is a policy against interoffice relationships, you violated it by pursuing a relationship. You can't just blow that off and say "It is in the past, get over it" because it is the ROOT of this.

Maybe you should stop expecting her to act a certain way. This is how she wants to treat you now, after seeing you for a while. Accept that fact and get over it. She isn't making the situation uncomfortable... you are, by not accepting her for who she is. You crossed a line. Sure, so did she... and now she feels like shit for it, and probably wants to QUIT rather than come into work and face you. You, expecting her to be all happy and interested in you and friendly? That's more pressure. She likely regrets seeing you. Don't make her regret working with you too. Don't make her regret knowing you exist, because of the actions you take. Do not try to justify making her regret breaking it off with you.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 19 (view)
The cologne conundrum
Posted: 5/16/2017 12:49:58 PM

Guys, what do you do if a girl expresses a preference for a cologne that you don't have?

In my last relationship, I was asked how I felt about my cologne before she told me whether she liked it or not.

I found a cologne I can stand wearing, and I've stuck with it for years. I've never had a woman say she didn't like it... but I've gotten rejected for countless other reasons. If my cologne was an issue, it was probably low on the list of issues. A better way to put it is that I've never had a woman reject me because of my cologne.

That said... there was a woman who I had a fling with in.. 97? 98? who did NOT want me to wash up with the Peppermint Castile soap she had in the shower, because she said it would remind her of the last guy who she was involved with, who used that soap all the time. I didn't want to compete with any ghosts, so I complied and brought my own.

I don't date enough to honestly know how solid this is for a small talk topic. I think I remember it coming up in High School, but back then it was deodorant and antiperspirant. I spent more time in and out of that band uniform, and in front of the hot lights at some musical performance. I was sometimes slapping on the Speed Stick multiple times per day. Once I was out of high school, I got straight into a metal band, so again it was sweat city. Luckily, I had learned my lesson in high school in my own rock band. That first gig, I had on so many clothes because I thought that would look Professional-Casual (80's, and the name of the band was The Casuals). I sweated so much... that was before the High School Band in Florida, in Disney World in April, in winter New England wool band uniforms. THAT was hot.

So... during my 20's, I tried to cologne up, but it would get buried in the sweat, dust, smoke, bar-smell. When I wasn't gigging or looking for gigs, I was working or practicing. I think I missed that period when you casually date... and topics of scent are common like the weather.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 461 (view)
The board was much better with moderators
Posted: 5/16/2017 12:13:19 PM
Alrighty.... this is NOT to start a fight. A discussion tangent, definitely. But..

A "Ring" does not define a woman's worth or character.

Beyonce won a grammy telling single girls to put a ring on it. and the song was considered "wholesome" enough to have the Chipettes copy it.

So... there is a large portion of the population of the USA that does believe that putting a ring on it is an important thing, and the concept is all over modern entertainment media. Comedy, romantic, dramatic... Sci-Fi (Jupiter Ascending?)... all show us one example or another of the Ring and the importance of it one way or another.

Please don't assume I am saying that the Ring *SHOULD* define who you are. On that topic, I believe you and I agree. It should not. I'm saying that there may be global evidence available that we are in a minority when it comes to this.

Wedding bands actually ATTRACT certain people... male and female. And on the opposite side of that coin, many people won't approach one of the opposite sex that is wearing a wedding band.

Does not wearing the wedding band make them less married? Considering the importance of the rings in most ceremonies, if one of the partners takes their ring off, that is usually a significant moment... typically one that warrants a discussion in the relationship. The default expectation is that you'd wear your wedding ring all the time, and if you weren't going to wear it after marriage, you'd talk with your mate about that, to tell them why and alleviate any fears. Like, that you weren't planning on infidelity, you just didn't wear jewelery.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 38 (view)
Met a real person less than 1 km from me but no good
Posted: 5/16/2017 11:58:23 AM
I'd be willing to bet folding money that there have been times that you've heard about a product, only to turn it down when you go to the store to purchase it. Someone told you something... you read an article... you see it in the store, you pick it up and examine it and read the packaging... and you decide that you don't want it.

Have you ever purchased something from an online source, only to find it wasn't what it was supposed to be after you got it? I don't mean that you got your purchase, used it for a while, and then didn't like it. No. I mean you get it and you pretty much do a doubletake as you realize that what you got was what it looked like, but it wasn't exactly what you thought it was to begin with?

I'm not saying that this happens all the time, but I'm sure it does happen occasionally. She was shopping when she came by. For whatever reason, you weren't what she was looking for.

What you should take away from this, is that she didn't take the TIME to find out whether or not you were who she was looking for, because something about you said that you were not Mr. Right. All she had was time to make surface assessments, which means that what she was most concerned with were surface, or superficial, features and reasons.

Maybe the fact that you didn't stop everything you were doing to pay attention to her turned her off... and I mean stop, clean off more than you would normally, and then not even reference what you were doing again unless she asked. Maybe what she was looking for was that feeling of a guy focusing 110% on her. Maybe she wanted to look into his eyes, and see him longing for her, or hungry for her.

Unfortunately today, people spend too much time looking for the perfect fit, and never stop to realize that the entire relationship is going to be about adjusting the fit all the time. What happens when something fits perfectly, and then you grow? You outgrow it and it doesn't fit anymore. Everyone learns this lesson throughout their lives. Put a plant in a space that it fits, and it will break the space eventually.... or kill the plant as its needs exceed the planter. Sure, that's a specific example. What happens when the family doesn't fit in the house anymore? You expand the house, or you move to a bigger house. What is perfect for just the couple doesn't work with two kids (or usually even just one kid).

I'm not talking about Potential either. The potential people see in you is less about you, and more about what they want to see in you.

She was shopping, and she was looking for something specific.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 6 (view)
Widowed Women or Divorced Women?
Posted: 5/16/2017 11:34:28 AM
My only experience with the two types, is a Divorced Woman. The specific Divorced Woman I had gotten involved with didn't want me. She wanted to mold me into the man she wanted to fill the position left vacant by her last husband. She wasn't concerned with who I was, what I thought, what I liked or disliked. She wanted to wake up, sleep, eat, watch the television programs, and even socialized according to her strict design.

That experience left a bad taste in my mouth. She wasn't looking to be involved with me for who I was. She was looking to train/mold a custodian for her relationship and children.

Now, I'm not saying that every Divorced Woman is the same. From reading here on POF, many parents will shield their children from whom they are dating until they feel "sure". However, I know from experience that it is possible for a Divorced Woman to be looking for something specific to support her family with, as opposed to looking to meet and get involved with a guy for who he is.

I haven't met a Widowed Woman who was interested in being involved with me, so I can't speak to that.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 36 (view)
Can non social people find love?
Posted: 8/1/2016 3:01:16 PM

Trust is not intrinsic, it is based on behavior, some people are easier to trust than others if I keep me word, and behave in a way that removes all doubt then to most sane people I will be trusted.

Yet another red flag.

Whether or not you can trust people has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with if you keep your word and how you behave. This statement from you is incredibly self-centered... if not narcissistic. Do you believe you are some kind of charismatic leader, where the people who are around you look to you to decide what is right and wrong? People look to you and how you behave, to decide what the right behavior is? You keep doing that.

You talk about going to the bar, and how since you don't do something, other people shouldn't do it either. You talk about your view on flirting, and how there is that absolute of it being wrong (not taking into account individual people... some of whom are just flirty with nothing attached to the behavior) in some circumstances. You talk about dropping relationships where people don't meet YOUR expectations, and there's no mention of how a relationship is GIVE and TAKE, where you have expectations AND sacrifices you need to make. A Relationship is not only what *you* want with the "perfect" person. There is no "Perfect" person. There are only situations where you can make choices and decide on things you can work with and what you can't.

There's no acknowledgement on your part that you BUILD a relationship... you change to suit it. You and your partner both change to meet the relationship.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 19 (view)
Can non social people find love?
Posted: 7/24/2016 12:38:26 PM

Actually I do focus on the 20% and that stuff often does not desired results either(but I try most things atleast once)

When all you mention and talk about is the 80%... and I quote you doing that and there's no mention at all of the 20%... then you are most certainly NOT focusing on the 20%, and you are not showing any proof that you focus on the 20% more than the 80%. The proof is in your actions, not in your words. That's clear.

That's why I try to avoid taking a girl to a bar, and no I don't think I can control guys at a bar,

If you avoid it, why do you use that example? What person uses examples of what they avoid doing and what they don't do... to show what happens to them so much that they have to complain about it? Again... your words in this reply are contradicting your actions in what you've posted previously.

As far as controlling the other guys in the bar.. your comment of how You wouldn't do that... that's shows that you are expecting them to behave the way you would, because it is common sense, or it is the right thing to do... yes. You want to control them, if only to expect them to behave according to some common set of rules that you believe every guy should follow. You won't acknowledge it, but that is still a method of control.
"Hey, you are driving too fast! Slow down!" - That's an example of trying to control someone's speed.
"Hey, the posted speed limit sign is 20MPH! You are going to get a ticket!" - Same thing, just trying to use external details to encourage capitulation. Yet the second response is also an example of passively trying to get someone to bend to your will. You'd still want them to slow down, but instead of YOU telling them, you are saying that the LAW is telling them, you are just the messenger, and don't shoot the messenger. So implying that since YOU wouldn't be hitting on their girlfriends in the bar, and feeling the necessity to tell all of us how you wouldn't act the way these guys act in the bars, you are implying that they should NOT be acting this way as well. Control.

Nope it's just an attempt to keep my life nice and simple.

Dude, you restrict the number of friends in your life. You wish you were back in the 90's, specifically 1991. You have described your ideal dating situation in a multitude of tiny pieces spread out all over the place, and altogether it reads like the description that explains what Narcissistic Supply is. It is far more than just an attempt to keep your life nice and simple. You most definitely have issues with Control.

most of my hobbies tend to attract other guys

... and my now predictable response is.... What about the remaining "some" of your hobbies then that don't tend to attract other guys? I mean, those are the hobbies I was asking about, and describing, and specifically mentioning how you would follow them to see if you meet any women. Obviously I'm not talking about those hobbies that only attract other guys, and here you are, saying that you do indeed have some hobbies that don't only attract other guys. So why wouldn't you talk about them? Why are you only mentioning the hobbies that won't work? You acknowledged them right there. Your words. Most of them won't work. That means that some will.

Yet you chose the negative route. Interesting... that.

I didn't know Supermarkets were a hobby of yours.

Why are you fixated on Females in Large Numbers? Wouldn't a smaller group of females that all share something in common with you be a FAR better pool to work from, rather than a random sampling of random stranger?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 15 (view)
Can non social people find love?
Posted: 7/21/2016 11:35:09 AM

I don't think that they are that difficult.

What is your basis for deciding that these requirements are not difficult? Since you have difficulty filling these requirements, by definition doesn't that mean that they are difficult to fill? I think it does.

I can't even go on a date at a bar without other guys disrespecting my relationship by flirting with my girl while I'm getting up to get our drinks or heaven forbid going to the restroom. I would never do that to someone.

Yet you keep taking your dates to bars, where you already know damn well that the people in the bar who are completely OUTSIDE of your control will do the things you don't like. What does that say about you? Do you honestly think that you should be able to control all those guys in the bar, and make them think the way you want them to think, so they won't flirt with or hit on the girl you brought to the bar? Seriously? Just by saying that you wouldn't do that... is this supposed to imply that everyone else is also supposed to live by the same moral code... especially when drunk, in a bar where the main points are to get drunk and try to get laid?

If you keep taking dates to places where you don't like how the dates go... that's on you bub. That's not a "hating people" problem. That's a "I'm not smart enough to learn from my mistakes" problem.

I keep my social circle small(very small) for a reason. I am a firm believer in the saying "if you can count your friends on more than one hand, you're fooling yourself."

This also indicates you have issues with control. This borders on "Sorry, I can't afford new friends right now, but as soon as a spot opens up, I'll consider your application."

80% of the advise I get on meeting women involves going to places with large groups of people, this just stresses me out.

So why aren't you only focusing on the 20% that doesn't? Why focus only on the 80% of bad advice you don't like? Why stress out over it? If you get advice, and you know that it doesn't work for you... either you didn't explain yourself very well before you got the advice... or the person giving you the advice wasn't paying attention to what you were saying... or you just listen patiently and dismiss it, knowing already that it doesn't work for you.

I had thought that online dating would expose me to like minded women, but those women tend to be too social for me also. one on one I am great, I feel good, I enjoy the flow of conversation and for that moment the world seems a better place, but in a group setting not so much. So my ideal mate would be someone who felt the same way.

It makes no sense to me that you would go to social places like bars and clubs to meet women, when you don't like going to bars and clubs to meet women. It makes no sense to me that you would go to places to meet people who socialize frequently, when you don't want a woman who is that social.

You don't climb a mountain, expecting to catch Tuna with a net.

You refuse to change.

You have to change how you think, and what you expect... and you refuse. You persist in insisting that what you want should be where it doesn't belong... just because you want it to be there. You describe a woman who would never be in the places you are looking for women.... yet you seem to think that she should be there because you want her to be, and all the guys in the place should automatically respect your wishes and live by the code you live by.... man... you do have some control issues. Seriously.

How about hobbies? Is there anything you like to do for fun? What about going and doing that... and trying to meet the women who ALSO do that same thing? I mean, you don't like *people* and you don't like what happens at clubs... why not go somewhere you do like? I don't know what you like. There are gaming salons, cafes and coffee shops, book stores, universities... hell, you could crash the rehearsal performances for plays downtown at a local theater. Roller Derby is making a comeback. Craft shows? Art exhibits? And don't feel like you have to personally shoot down every one of these suggestions. This wasn't about my ability to correctly guess a hobby or interest you might have. This is to just prove that there are more places to meet people than just bars and clubs... places where people are less social, and into things you are into.

Are you into Tai Chi? Have you ever wanted to be? You are bouncer and into security, so it might do you well. What if your perfect mate is taking a Tai Chi class every Saturday morning in one of your local parks? How would you know? You are spending your time trying to meet that perfect match by going places you don't like with people you don't like. Think about that.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 24 (view)
Don't Look, He Will Come to You
Posted: 7/21/2016 11:07:15 AM
The concept itself requires patience and time.

If you do want to adopt a "Don't look, he will come to you" policy, then you need to stop looking and go about your life. Go to work. Do the things you like to do. Go to the places you like to go. Be the person you like to be... and stop looking to meet guys. Don't frequent the dating sites and message other guys. I mean... create your profile, sure. But then you are just going to check it to see who comes looking for you. That's it.

The process is going to take time. It could take months. It could take years. You will have chosen to be a passive participant in your dating life, which means that you will have to learn to be patient. It also means you will have to learn how to be more open-minded, because if you are too tightly focused on one thing, you might actually miss the guy when he shows up.

He isn't going to show up in a Tuxedo, with a wedding ring and a bouquet of roses... ready to marry and start the new life... and if he did, you should run in the opposite direction. However, he might deliver your pizza. He might be the mechanic fixing your car... or the technician fixing your computer. He might be the guy who helps you when you drop that book in the parking lot.

The more you increase your exposure, the greater the chance of him meeting you. The more you tailor that exposure to things you really enjoy, the greater the chance that the guy you meet will be someone who is into the same things as you.

Going to a club and listening to the music is nice... however, you are likely to meet guys who are at the club to pick up women and get laid. That's what clubs are for. However, you can also go to a show to listen to music... and if you meet someone at the show, it is more likely that he is there at the show to enjoy the music as well. As in... his first priority is less likely to be to get laid. You are looking for someone you have things in common with... and you'd be at a show with people you have something in common with (love of that music/band).

Will the guy eventually pop up? Maybe.

Here's the thing. You were born. You've got one guarantee. One. It isn't a money-back guarantee. And... that's because it is GOING to happen. One day, you will die. That's it. That's the guarantee. Everything else in your life is up for grabs. There's no guarantee you'll meet a guy and get married. There's no guarantee you'll have kids and propagate your genetic line. There's no guarantee you'll spend your life alone. So.... *WILL* the guy eventually pop up? Maybe. Maybe not.

By taking an ACTIVE part in your dating life... introducing yourself to guys, trying to be somewhat outgoing on occasion (not extroverted... but actually being forward enough to start the conversation)... you will increase the chances of finding a guy. By extension, that also means you'll increase the number of bad dates and bad relationships... but again, that's a byproduct of increased dating.

If you choose to wait for him to show up, be prepared to wait... and be prepared to not meet him. Otherwise... take an active hand in meeting new guys.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 4 (view)
Blocked but she is trying to send me messages ?
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:46:37 PM
The content of those messages must be something special, for you to try to figure a way around being blocked.

Yes, I also agree that being blocked by the person sending you messages is weird... but for you to not just go "NEXT!", and for you to be hung up on this... well, that's why I mention how good the content of those messages must be.

You could... create another account, message her from THAT account, tell her who you are, quote from a few of her messages to prove it, and remind her of how she has you blocked so that you cannot reply. If she is genuine, she will rectify the mistake and unblock you. If she is not genuine, you'll get reported for having both accounts and I'm sure it will be a mess.

But hey... the greater the risk, the greater the gain, right?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 6 (view)
My impressions
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:42:07 PM
When you purchase your bride from Russia from this site...

- do they ship UPS or FEDEX?
-do they include feeding and care instructions?
-do they include a starter kit of basic necessities?
-do you have to pay local State tax on the transaction?
-what is the return policy? Will they provide return shipping materials?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 13 (view)
Is this a red flag? Why do men do this?
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:36:40 PM
Red flags are subjective. What you consider to be a red flag might not be a point of contention for someone else. Yes... many people agree about some red flags.... but one person's cheater is another person's polyamorous boyfriend. Yes, yes.... I know difference. Yet there are those that would always look at the people in a polyamorous relationship and just see cheating.

I'm not defending this guy at all. What I'm trying to do is make sure that you are aware of the process that is going on. You've noticed something that bothers you... bothers you enough to ask the Internet of Strangers to help you out with getting a handle on this... bothers you enough to consider it to be a Red Flag.

Red Flags don't tend to go away on their own. They fester when left alone. Red Flags grow over time... starting as annoyances that end up causing full blown screaming matches with people sleeping in separate rooms.

You can address the issue directly with him, or you can take this as an indication that he is the wrong guy for you. If you address it directly to him... you give him the opportunity to choose to change himself and not do this anymore. That would show you that he considered you to be more important than his habit of vanishing. That would be a sign of personal growth. That would eliminate the Red Flag. You cannot EXPECT him to change, because you don't have the right... just like he doesn't have the right to EXPECT you to change yourself and how you feel about being blown off like this. Think about that.

So. You have a frank and honest discussion with him about this, and THEN you figure out what direction you go in. That, or you just sever all ties right now. Unless you do want to change yourself to suit him.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18 (view)
Advice for Someone Very Interested
Posted: 2/14/2016 12:23:13 PM

If he truly isn't interested, why doesn't he just tell me so?

Let's start with the obvious. He could have communication issues just like you do. You haven't been blunt with him about the fact that you really want to meet up with him badly, have you. You thought you saw him, but didn't say anything. You aren't that comfortable with expressing yourself. You want to be more comfortable with the people you share and exchange with, before you really open up.

At any rate, direct questions tend to get direct responses... and you seem to be looking for a direct response from this guy. There's an issue here though. You can already see that he has views that are different from yours, on issues you believe are important. For example... you want a guy who communicates with more regularity, and this guy seems to be hit or miss. You want a guy who is more direct with his feelings and expressing them, and you are of the opinion that this guy might be shy and reserved. So... if he is so different from what you want... why do you want him, and what in the world makes you think it would work?

Food for thought.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 555 (view)
this forum is offed up- no ones cares about VolkanoKing here-
Posted: 2/14/2016 11:32:29 AM

who the hell is volkanoking?
like anyone really cares

Seriously? Dude. I'm not expecting you to know everyone, especially since you've got a join date of this year... but do you really need to act like having no respect for the past, or no respect for people who have been on the forums for longer than you have, should be a common thing? The lack of respect I mean.

Ok. So you joined after all of this happened. You joined months after VK started this thread. Think about it like this... in a very few short months, VK's thread got to 26 pages. That's a lot of people talking in a conversation about someone you can't seem to muster up the most basic of respect for.

Get over yourself. Just because YOU don't know who she is, doesn't mean other people don't know who she is. And... the friggin length of the thread *should* be enough to tell you that obviously VK was someone that many people knew and had opinions about. It doesn't take a genius to notice and figure that out.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 9 (view)
its probably all in my head but im not sure..
Posted: 11/9/2015 11:09:21 AM
You are right. A lot of this is indeed all in your head.

You say that this is "supposed" to only be sexual. Did you tell him in no uncertain terms that this is only going to be a sexual relationship? Did you tell him plainly that you don't want any Public Displays of Affection, especially when anyone associated with the father of your child is around?

No. Of course you didn't. You didn't tell him any of these things. You just *expected* him to understand. That's one step away from expecting him to read your mind. Like... he's supposed to "just know", or he's supposed to pick up on the signals you are sending. Yo.

If you want to know what he is thinking, or what his intentions are... you have to ask HIM. I know... novel concept, eh? But really though, you have to ask him direct questions if you want direct answers. We only have your view on things... your take on things... and the play-by-play doesn't actually provide definitive information as to what his intentions are. It doesn't. No, we can't tell what he is thinking by your description of how he liked your stuff on Facebook.

Your sense of communication is so screwed up, I'm not even sure where to begin on telling you how to fix it.... so I'll stick with this little gem. You need to actually talk to him about these things... instead of talking to the internet of strangers.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 24 (view)
Ever been grateful that a relationship DIDN'T work out and why?
Posted: 1/29/2015 10:34:31 PM
I'm grateful to be out of my last relationship.

I knew things were just wrong, but I was very wrapped up in the thing... almost a perfect storm, so to speak. I gathered the strength and moved out... across the country. I focused on creating stability, since I was homeless as a result of moving out.. and dealt with my feelings about it all a few months later when I had finally moved into a place of my own. The process of dealing with it all is ongoing, but I can definitely say I am glad I got out when I did. I know what she is, and what I was.

I miss impressions... I miss moments. I definitely don't miss the life that surrounded them though... or her.

I call it a perfect storm, because when she and I went to high school together I had it for her badly. We were never single at the same time, and we only had one encounter on a school trip to Canada one year. I knew there were issues she had to deal with at home, but I assumed that the strength I thought I saw would carry her out of the troubles. That was then. We kept in contact over the years, and she remained a beautiful and vibrant woman. When she expressed a desire to build something with me... more than two decades since we had gone to school together, I couldn't pass it up. That... and I hadn't been in any relationships for almost all of that two + decades. Perfect Storm.

I guess it was like a really unique roller coaster. I know I wouldn't want to ride it again, but I'm glad I got to ride it once, and I'm glad I got off the ride alive.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 21 (view)
please read and reply
Posted: 1/1/2015 4:37:22 AM

Fyi only god can judge me


I never asked you to go to my page and read my bio.

What makes you think you have the right, and the ability, to attempt to control what anyone does? That's the bigger question. You tried this in the beginning of the original post, telling all of us not to judge you. You again attempt to dictate to all of us who is allowed to judge. See.... that isn't how it this works.... this, interacting with other human beings thing. We can go right ahead and judge you. We'll use the testimony you provide. Things like your BIO and what you've posted in other threads. You typed and stated all of it, so you are responsible for all of it. That means if you say in your BIO that you are not into Married men, that you would not date or be involved with men who are involved with someone else. That means the moment you suspected he was with someone else, you should have broken off all contact. The moment you KNEW he had been with you, and had been involved with someone else at the same time you should have broken off all contact. It doesn't matter what justification you use NOW.... the facts are that you did not break off all contact when you knew he was already spoken for...and had lied to you about it at the time. So any statements you make about not involving yourself with involved guys is null and void... and bunk. This is not judgement. This is just how it is. Nothing about your character has been said. Nothing about the kind of person you are. Just that you said one thing... and your actions prove that you didn't mean what you said. Or... as it was put... you did not practice what you preached. I understand you disagree. That, is empty lip service though.

As far as Gaming Playing is concerned... you admit to lying to him on multiple occasions, playing with his head, etc. You have described playing games with him, and you said you are not into playing games in your BIO. So again... you have contradicted yourself.

You had casual sex. You said you were not into that. Facts are facts. Again. No judgement, just the fact you said you weren't into something you later admit you do.

These things, as well as your reaction to them being brought to light, do seem to point to certain... red flags about your character. For one, you seem to believe it is very important to TELL people who you are, before they DISCOVER who you are. As in... it is important for guys on POF to think you are not into Casual Sex, Playing Games, or Married Men, when in practice, you will combine all three into one dating experience. Facts are facts.

It does put everything you say in a different light, though. Especially admitting that you wanted advice on only HALF the story..... which is admitting you like to manipulate the outcome of situations by controlling the flow of information. I mean... again... to quote you...

I only gave you half of the story.

Then, to attempt to diminish what she said with...

Why would I take any advice from you? This is a dating website

... yes. This is a dating site where YOU just posted a story asking for the advice of strangers. So... why would you take any advice from her? I dunno... probably because YOU just posted a thread asking for it. Now, isn't that interesting how you ask for advice, then turn it around and try to imply that you never wanted the advice you asked for? That would make you a hypocrite... by the definition, I believe.

Oh... and this. This is very important. First, you said this...

Next day I get a call from his phone. I pick up and it was a female's voice. She told me she is his girlfriend. I was like wow. A little heart broken as well. I then moved past it. He denied but I knew it was time to move on. One month goes by and he txt me. I ignored him until the next month I gave in.

Then, you said this.

Never knew he was with anyone.

So... you once again contradict yourself. First you say she calls, then you make him wait a month and get with him. So, you knew. You found out after the fact, and still went with him. Casual Sex, Games, and Married (involved) man. A trifecta.

Now... let the games begin.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 25 (view)
Girls on here that have boyfriends
Posted: 12/12/2014 1:29:48 PM
From the voracity and content of your replies here, Matti_81, I'm starting to get the impression that this girl is not who you make her out to be.

You claim to want to do this, to save other guys the BS. And yes, that does have a noble ring to it. Except you can't. Seriously. I don't mean that it isn't right for you to do. I mean that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to set up some kind of message based barrier system that blocks her from being able to do this to other people. Akin to emptying the ocean with a teaspoon.

More importantly, the one person who hit the nail on the head early on, you respond to with extreme negativity. You *do* need to learn to handle rejection better. Instead of looking inside yourself to find out what you need to fix so that you do not fall into this trap again, you decide to launch a campaign against her, specifically aimed at ending her ability to do what she did to you. All of that says "There's nothing wrong with me, it is all on her and I'm going to punish her for it." Yet there must have been issues within yourself if you were drawn into this mess. Too trusting? Desperate? For whatever reason you decided to ignore the red flags you saw, or you thought you could fix them. Then it ended, and you are out for revenge.

Oh I'm done being bitter, she is on here using this site to do the same crap to other guys.

If you were done being bitter, you would not be attempting to disguise your bitterness by (poorly) cloaking it in noble sentiment. If you were done being bitter, you'd be moving on with your life. This... this is not moving on with your life. This is "I'm gonna get the last move in, and she'll never forget me after this!"

Already working on that , just sucks for the next guy.

You were in message 8 to move on... and this ^ was your reply... except there is no proof that you actually *are* moving on, since you are here focused on getting another kick into this breakup. Your reply seems to agree with that advice, yet instead of thanking him for what you *MUST* think was good advice (if you are already on it), you tell him you already thought of it. That's pretty inconsiderate of you, considering that by starting this thread you want people to think you are VERY considerate. Remember... you want us to think you are ONLY trying to save the next guy from heartbreak. That consideration for those strangers... where is the consideration for those who are trying to give you the help you are asking for? Interesting....

She had told me about this guy she used to date, but said it was over with him months before I met her. A friend of hers told me the truth, when confronted she flat out admitted it but had a complete idgaf attitude about it. Said she "thought she could date us both but eventually had to choose". If I'd known sooner, I could have made that choice for her.

Now here's some truth, but it is buried. You are angry and bitter that she didn't choose you. You spin the story so that we know she was supposed to make a choice between you and this guy she never sees... and she chose not you. I can't say she chose him... all we know is she chose not you. The fact that she is out again looking for another target or replacement reinforces the idea that regardless of what she did want, she did not want you. This is what bothers you. The fact that you would have made the "choice" for her... like it was so important for YOU to make the choice first. See... you miss the obvious. You should be grateful that you found this out when you did, instead of being strung along for even longer. You should be grateful for the freedom to forget her and make your life better. Instead, you focus on her... even though you aren't with her any more. No... you can't come up with a BS response about how you aren't focusing on her.... you have posted and returned to repost in a thread you started that is all about her.

Basically , yes, that pretty much sums it up. Claims they're getting married now. But like you said, can't be much of a relationship there so good luck to her.

Good luck to her? And you want us to believe that you aren't bitter? Which is it... were you honestly wishing her good luck, or was that a sarcastic (and thus bitter) Good Luck? Because if you were honestly wishing her Good Luck... what are you doing with this thread, looking for a way to turn people against her (and block her from doing to other guys what she did to you)... that's not something you do to someone you honestly wish Good Luck for. Now... if we look at the other side, that this was a sarcastic Good Luck wish, then you are indeed bitter and upset by all of this still.

Put her in your rearview and don't look back. The road you are headed down isn't going to take you anywhere you want to be. Stop trying to think about what you can do to her, and start trying to think about what you can do to you. Here is an another way to think about this. If you were REALLY working on trying to find a new girlfriend, you wouldn't be posting threads like this where any prospective woman could read and find out what you do when things go south for you.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 12 (view)
What Am I Doing Wrong?
Posted: 12/11/2014 2:42:12 PM
What are you doing wrong.


You provide a short, three sentence paragraph with a little information... the information itself is specific, directed, and apparently geared toward getting a limited set of answers... and without reading any further into the thread, what little you wrote tells me that you would most likely "have an answer for everything", which in and of itself isn't a bad thing.

First, I think you are attempting to appear like you need help, but you are really here to have your opinions confirmed. Why would I think that? Because of how little information you did actually provide. How is anyone supposed to be able to give you useful advice when they know virtually nothing about your situation?

I mean, there is plenty of generic advice. Like...
-Change the places you go to meet men. Of course, we don't know where you go to meet men now, and I suspect you will reply with how you've already gone everywhere you can meet men and they are all losers no matter where.
-Stop Looking. You say you already did this. The whole point of not looking was to get used to the idea of being alone, and learning how to be comfortable with yourself not having a mate. So, if you did that successfully, why are you looking now? And if you are looking again, how can you say that Stopping worked when it was supposed to improve how you felt about being alone?
-Let someone else set you up. Of course, this would rely on having real world friends, and letting someone else take control... and you do not come across as someone who allows another to be in control... and you do come across as someone who would argue LOUDLY about how you would never let any loser man be in control of anything in your life (or that you would only allow the RIGHT man to control aspects of your life, but you've never met the right man).

A TEENY TINY amount of imagination is all you need to actually realize that in different parts of the country/world, there are tons of MARRIED women who hunt and fish and work on cars. Hell, I'm surrounded by them. So quite obviously it isn't a bad thing for a woman to do these things, and just as obviously doing these things isn't going to turn men away. So why do you seek to force some kind of confirmation on these things not being bad? If we said they were bad, you wouldn't change yourself. You'd keep on doing them. So why ask? See... believe it or not, fishing for compliments isn't really a good way to fish. But fishing for compliments like that... that's one of the reasons I've come to the conclusions I have. Because of what SPECIFICALLY you were fishing for, and how you went about it.

So... I get it. You can't find a guy to fit the mold you have picked out for him. None of them are right. You do realize that when you think the world is wrong, that really means it is all on you... right? Because thinking a large group is wrong is one thing, especially if you just watched that large group do something you believe is wrong. However, there's no way the world could ALL be wrong. Yet, EVERY GUY you met has been a loser. That means you've got something specific you are looking for. And that means you aren't ever really seeing these guys for who they are. You are seeing them through the filter of who you want.

Good luck with that.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 16 (view)
How Do you deal with loneliness?
Posted: 12/9/2014 9:50:45 PM

I don't believe that destiny decides for you. If you want something. You go get it. Period.

I can't say as I disagree with you. You did quote me out of context though, and then you replied to your misquote as if that was what I really said.

For one thing, I wasn't talking about chickens... and your quote of mine starts off with the word "hen" which either means you edited my quote to add things I didn't say, or you REALLY misquoted me, and literally quoted me out of the context I was speaking in. Not to worry... here's the full quote.
{quote]If "everyone" is right, and there is someone out there for everyone, then it is FAR more likely that your perfect mate, your soul mate, the one that the world decided was the "ONE" for you, is on the opposite side of the globe.
You see, I was addressing something specific... that's why I used that little wonderful word "IF". I was saying that IF all the people who say "There is someone out there for everyone" are right, THEN it is more likely that this perfect soulmate is on the other side of the planet. That's an IF-THEN statement. It isn't a statement of fact, it is a conditional statement.

You don't believe in destiny or fate. That's great. So you would be one of the people who DOESN'T say that there is someone out there for everyone. I did account for people like you, in that I made an IF-THEN statement.

Sure. He can take this all in hand... which apparently he's been doing... and keep trying new things to get a woman. Of course, since he knows he has issues with people, maybe he should be seeing a therapist to work out why he is the way he is, so he can then get on to making things happen.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 11 (view)
How Do you deal with loneliness?
Posted: 12/9/2014 2:09:14 PM

So I'm 32 years old and have been single my whole life.

Ok. So, we take this as a given, since you expressed it as a fact.

I try really hard to stay positive and be happy being single, but lately it's been very difficult.

You are 32. So, you've had 32 years to try. Have you had any success at all during these 32 years? If your first impression is to respond with something like "fleeting" or "occasionally" then I challenge you to look again.

How do you deal with being alone?

You've been alone so far, according to the premise of your question... so you should be identifying how you have dealt with being alone for 32 years so far. You've dealt with it up to this point, even if it has bothered you. How have you managed it to this point?

There is no guarantee in life that you will partner up. So, make sure that you aren't thinking things like "I SHOULD be with someone, so why won't anyone love me?" The world isn't obligated to mate you up.

Ok. If that is too harsh, then think about it from a different POV. If "everyone" is right, and there is someone out there for everyone, then it is FAR more likely that your perfect mate, your soul mate, the one that the world decided was the "ONE" for you, is on the opposite side of the globe. She could be running a shop in Siberia, or serving tea in India, or deciding what to paint next in Melbourne.

Let's put it together. If there MUST be someone for you, and they MUST be somewhere you will be in the future, that means that Destiny is running the show, and there's no use in getting upset or bothered by all of this. If you believe that there has to be someone out there for you because that's how it should be, then you need to trust in that process completely... in that the person you are supposed to be with will come into your life when she is supposed to, and not one minute sooner. You can't only believe in Destiny half-way. You can't assume that there is someone there, but that it is up to YOU to do all the right things to find her.

Kinda sucks, eh? The idea of waiting on Destiny to do what it is going to do. That's why most people jump on the "There has to be someone out there, but why can't I find him/her?" bandwagon. Believing fate carried them half-way, but that it is up to someone else to point out what they are doing wrong to have not gotten what fate is supposed to have had for them. It's actually quite an irresponsible way to live.

Here is how it is though. You might meet someone. You might not. You might do everything right and still die alone. You might crack, go to prison for murder, and marry a prison groupie (the ones that start penpal relationships with prisoners). All you can do is continue on this journey through life.

Oh... and either hollow yourself out and do everything everyone else tells you so you can become who THEY think you should be... so you can meet the woman who wants that... OR just keep on keeping on and see where your life takes you.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 16 (view)
my guy still has his POF account
Posted: 12/1/2014 1:01:02 PM

Ok. This little Gem.

I go on again, i do not know why...just my nosy self to see if he's being faithful.

That is such a red flag... on you... and you thought you could slip it by. We'll get back to this though.

So... you fooled him into answering a bunch of questions, and he proved what a manipulative liar he is. And you end the post with..

I don't know what to do....why is he doing this

What do you mean that you don't know what to do? Normal people would run. Normal people would break the "relationship" off and send him to the curb. You, however... you try to appear lost and confused. You don't know what to do. That's not the whole truth though, is it? You want to know how to stop him from doing this, and make it so he never does this again. That's specifically what you are asking how to do. Because none of us need to tell you the specific steps on how to break off a relationship. You know how to do that already.

It doesn't matter why he's doing this. You think one of us is going to come up with a logical, rational explanation as to why he would be looking for someone else while he's with you? What... like we are supposed to know all the intimate details of your life that make you the person you are? Without knowledge like that, how could we come up with a reason why he would be looking to replace you? Otherwise, we can only assume things... maybe he is just a player. Who knows? Only he knows why, and if we spoke with him he would probably lie.

But back to the first quote. You have a little problem with being honest. You said you didn't know something, and then immediately show that this wasn't true. You knew exactly why you went on again. You suspected he wasn't being faithful, and he proved it. What more do you want?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 35 (view)
Am I too needy?
Posted: 12/1/2014 12:24:37 PM

What I don't get is why she can't even bring herself to see things from my point of view.

Then why don't you decide to see things from HER point of view? I mean... you wasted time thinking that she should change to suit what you want (AKA seeing things from your POV)... yet how much time have you dedicated to doing exactly what you expect of her? Seems like a crazy request, right? Just doing a 180 on how you feel and whatnot. Yet, this is what you apparently expect, when you say you can't understand why she won't see things the way you want her to.

That's not the issue though.

You tell her you are disappointed and she gets angry. That's a control issue. You ask "But I'm not allowed to be disappointed?" No. You are not. At least, according to her. You are only allowed to feel the emotions she wants you to feel. She gets angry with you for having your own opinions (If you get disappointed), and she is telling YOU what you should and should not care about.

You won't see it, but this is actually emotional abuse. She is attempting to force you into a state of confusion, where you look to her to tell you everything.... what to feel, what to think, what to do.

You are not at opposite ends. There is no meeting up. From what you have said, she doesn't compromise. She isn't going to meet you in the middle.

Yes. She makes promises like she'd like to take your surname one day... but it is an empty promise. It would mean far more to you if she would just hold to her word and meet up for dates... and here you are hanging your hope on the promise of something far in the future. That's exactly what she is hoping for. She wants you to ignore the broken promises of the immediate, so you will get into the habit of ignoring her broken promises.

Dude. Run. Seriously. She is NEVER GOING TO BECOME THE WOMAN YOU WANT HER TO BE! Not only do you not have a right to expect that of anyone, but this woman specifically is never going to become her. She wants to change YOU into the subservient little lap-dog that she is looking for... and you are walking down that path. You WANT to believe in her... but she's given you nothing to believe in, nothing real or concrete at any rate.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18 (view)
is sex supposed to be easy to get here or something
Posted: 11/30/2014 3:30:33 AM

sounds like an mra. no wonder he cant hold on to people.

I don't know. It is very possible today to get burnt out on people. Being from the North East, I'm new to Washington by a little over a year. I've noticed the large number of narcissistic people in this area (south of the peninsula, Grays Harbor) and since they try to put themselves in the forefront to attract attention, it is hard to meet people without being inundated by those looking to turn you into their "supply". IE.. bleed you dry for money, etc.

You know the type... fast friends, but then every time you hear from them, they are always asking for something, and giving empty promises. Just walking through town, you can't avoid hearing a few wandering locals fishing for attention. Random calls or whistles when you approach... asking for a cigarette when they see a vape pen in your hand/mouth (IE, you don't smoke, you vape)... the panhandlers get aggressive with a You-Owe-Me attitude. That's the forefront of those that are out and about. The bars aren't much better. I'm not saying the whole state is like this. I'm just talking about the city I'm in right now. it is a dying city, economically depressed, and I'm sure many of the better people either keep to themselves, or don't live here.

But that's just it. The better people aren't out there mixing it up. The better people have been burned before, and are a little gun-shy when it comes to meeting new people. So... we don't meet. We can't compare dating now, to dating 30 years ago. Attention spans are shorter, for one thing.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 3 (view)
Am I too needy?
Posted: 11/30/2014 3:11:43 AM
It isn't really so much about you being too needy. It's more about, are you too needy for her. That's not necessarily a bad thing either. I mean, it brings to light an issue she has. You aren't a bad person, you just aren't the right person for her. And no... that isn't another way of saying you are needy.

Look at this from a different point of view. Regardless of how you act, she appears to need to be the one to control when you see each other. Whatever her reasons are behind cancelling your dates, if it ends up that you were only seeing each other when she initiated or decided it was alright, then she wanted to be in that driver's seat. By telling you that you are being too needy, when in point of fact you were just expecting her to live up to her agreements, she is actually attempting to obfuscate the issue, and refocus away from her and on to you.

This of course assumes you aren't lying, and you were not in fact calling and texting her at all hours, demanding she spend every moment with you. Assuming the facts in evidence are true, then dude.... run. Don't look back. There are so many little red flags, it's like red astroturf.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18 (view)
why was i used?
Posted: 11/18/2014 1:09:45 PM

wait... what? 4th paragraph, and months into the relationship... and you wait until the 4th paragraph to mention that this is a Long Distance Relationship that started at a distance? That's a red flag. No, not what you think. The fact that you didn't think that detail was pertinent enough to mention first... THAT is a red flag. At any rate... reading on...

You take a break at 6 months... rather, she takes the break from you, after refusing to see you.

You fast-forward 3 months... maybe 2 months, there's a month there you can't keep track of. No mention of how long the break lasted. Then again, if you didn't see each other in that three months, then I'd say the break never ended. Then it's wishy-washy feelings, old boyfriends, beer pong and assumptions. Oh and she'll get back together, but she doesn't see a future...


That's your story, and you know for a fact that you were EITHER used, or... wait. How could you know for a fact, if you don't know which fact? Seems like the things you DO know, and the things you SHOULD know, are the things you ignore and overlook.

Try this on for size. She is toxic. Establish a No Contact rule with her, and follow it. Put her in your rearview, and consider the entire matter to be a closed learning experience. Also...

NEVER GET INVOLVED WITH A LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIP AGAIN! If you can't see the person you want to be with, in under 30 minutes (ok... but that means that you get a heavy traffic allowance... I'm talking an average of 30 minutes to get in a car and go see your girlfriend) then consider it a LDR and pursue other interests. At least, avoid the prospects of getting involved with an LDR. I'm not saying that LDRs don't work, and I'm not saying that EVERYONE should avoid LDRs. I'm telling you that you can't handle one, and that you need someone you can sit with, be with, hang out with, etc. In short, you need to have a relationship that is MORE like the one that this woman had with her Ex, than she had with you.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 72 (view)
Emotional Bankruptcy
Posted: 11/18/2014 12:51:45 PM

I know I need to change things about me. I need to work on not being so quiet around people. I don't see it as a fault but sometimes I can be overly nice. I tend to go out of my way to help women even if I have only been on a date or 2. One of the last girls I went out with was sick the one day and I said I would bring her some soup or tea. I used to be really pushy in that I kept pushing to see the woman but I have backed away from doing that as much.

I think my biggest problem is that when a woman is interested in me I put a lot of effort into wanting a relationship out of it. I send the good morning texts but only if she starts them first. I do send texts saying how much I want to see them and saying that I am looking forward to seeing them. Its not a constant thing though.

The only other problem would probably be that I am not very aggressive. I am very slow when comes to making a move. Be it kissing or whatever. I have a hard time reading woman and how they feel.

That. All incredibly passive-aggressive. More than just that, however. You are contradicting yourself and making an ironic statement.

You begin with mentioning that you need to change things about you. You then begin to mention things that most people would NOT consider to be issues or deal-breakers. The second fault you mention, you immediately reverse and clarify that you don't see it as a fault. How are you going to put your heart into fixing something that you don't think is broken? You aren't. You will start to resent all those people you perceive that want you to change this part of you. Hell... you say you don't see it as a fault, and then you go on to talk about how you go out of your way to help women, even if you have only been on one or two dates with them. Wow. You start off trying to sound like you are recognizing a fault, and IN THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE you blame women for when you don't help them out... in that they might not have gone on enough dates with you to merit you helping them out. Then the paragraph digresses even further away from the topic... which was you, and the faults you need to change. You even talk about things that you say you've changed in the past.

But wait... there's more.

Next paragraph, that's blatant. And disgusting. You think your Biggest problem, is that you put TOO much effort into WANTING a relationship. Oh man... that's priceless. We have a martyr here. If it is one thing a partner wants, it is to see that you are going to put an effort into the relationship. But you don't put your effort into the relationship. You put it in appearing to WANT the relationship. Two very different things, and you were extremely specific in your reference to the latter (as opposed to the former). You are blaming "her" throughout this paragraph. You only send the good morning texts if SHE sends them? What's fscking wrong with you that you can't send a good morning text all on your own? You send texts talking about how much you want to see them and looking forward to seeing them, but you can't even keep up THAT level of minimum interest. And you wonder why you fail? This paragraph is rife with red flags of things you need to change... and none of them are what you actually mentioned that you need to change.

And that other problem, about not being very aggressive? That's a lie. Blatant, and manipulative. Your responses, and how ardently you have defended your position with discussions as to why you can disregard the good advice you've been given (to the point where you drove VK to say that she doesn't know what you want us to say)... all that is quite aggressive. You have aggressively defended the things you don't want to acknowledge or change. You have aggressively ignored valid advice from others. You have aggressively avoided validating many of the things that people IN THE KNOW have told you. So... lack of aggression isn't one of your faults. Slow to making a move? You are looking for the right opening. You are looking for the signs that you can move in for the kiss, or whatever. You don't have a hard time reading women at all. You just can't figure out why they aren't giving you the favorable responses. You read them just fine, and they aren't interested. You've been told that it isn't about spotting the right moment, it is about CREATING THE RIGHT MOMENT. You won't be able to see and recognize that though. You are too interested in trying to make people see what you want them to see.

Forget dating.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 4 (view)
she left me
Posted: 11/17/2014 12:53:06 AM
Ok. Reading...

You were involved, you got dumped. You have regrets about missing an event, you feel horrible, and you are crushed because you thought she was different.

Ok. Where's the question?

If there isn't one... then get over it. I know. This sucks. Been there. Many have. No one likes being second.

Maybe you could have avoided this... or seen it coming. Maybe you did (she went to spend time with the guy she left you for, before she left you... so there was a history there) and maybe it all came out of the blue. We don't know all the facts... and the truth is, none of them matter. Why? Simple.

You were involved. You got dumped. You have regrets. You thought she was different.

You are not involved anymore. You are single and can find a new mate. Learn from the regrets. Stop assuming how people are, and actually get to know them.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 43 (view)
She says she loves casual....
Posted: 11/17/2014 12:45:39 AM
Starting at the back...

please look over Grammar.. Sending via Mobile at traffic signals

Couldn't wait until you got at home, to focus more on your driving and not the phone toy? Yeah... you must be one of those "It'll never happen to me." kind of guys... I mean, talking so casually about how you are doing this mobile. I've seen drivers like you. You are one of the ones who sit at the Green Lights for a few seconds due to your phone, or stops short because the car in front was a little closer than you expected and you grabbed the phone in anticipation too early. This is actually one of your tells.

You recently met someone.... 20 years your junior. I know.... age doesn't matter, except when it does. Right? Let's face it. Two different directions, just like you said. Except... you being 20 years older, and having 20 more years of experience to draw on.... you should know better. You should know that she's old enough to try to make it work, but still yearn for something else. You know that she's old enough to have gotten burned, but young enough to still hope without being driven by desperation. You know that any future you might have with her will have to depend on some very specific and crucial elements. Good Communications between the two of you would be essential if you two are going to survive as a couple... more than anything. At your age, good communication is even more important than sex. I mean... you want to continue to have sex with her as the years go on? You'll be needing a prostrate exam. Guess what.... if this 28 year old wants to be with you, the two of you have to be able to talk about a prostrate exam without getting grossed out or turning it into a joke or sex reference. That's just a single example.

What's the big deal then? The two of you can't even decide on the same definitions... and you don't seem to be able to communicate those definitions without issue. I mean, you are here discussing this BEFORE you even breached the topic with her. That's not a sign of good communication skills.

So... the *ONLY* question you actually asked is...

Am I missing something here?

Yes. You are missing quite a bit. You are overlooking quite a bit. On purpose, I'd say. How does she feel about you referencing things she says as "yadda yadda yadda"? You are missing that tidbit of information. How does she feel about how YOU feel, regarding her terms for you (GF and BF)? You are missing that information too. Why exactly does she say that she is not a good GF? Where is that information? You are missing sight of where the two of you are going... that's why you asked her. You are missing some sex apparently as well.

The biggest thing you are missing... the willpower to actually talk with your girlfriend about what is on your mind.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 48 (view)
The reason why a man wont take you on a date and just want to chill at the house.
Posted: 11/13/2014 9:15:25 AM

Why do men have it cemented in their heads that dating has to cost a lot of money is ridiculous.

Incorrect. The fact that men have this cemented in their heads is NOT ridiculous. Modern Media perpetuates this concept. Hell, the whole idea of giving a woman a diamond engagement ring was developed by the diamond industry to SELL MORE DIAMONDS! That's it. For centuries beforehand, a woman's family would pay a dowry to the husband. So, for most of recorded history BEFORE this modern nonsense, it was the opposite. The man would essentially get paid for being with the woman.

So no. The fact that we think this way isn't ridiculous. We are inundated with the idea that we have to pay and pay and pay... and that's all before the marriage. What's ridiculous is not recognizing that most women keep this going, by ACTING like men need to pay for everything.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 47 (view)
The reason why a man wont take you on a date and just want to chill at the house.
Posted: 11/13/2014 9:10:07 AM
You put paper over the headstone, and then rub the paper with a crayon or charcoal... or some other similar media. This captures the texture of the stone, as well as making as the lettering on it stand out on the paper. In essence, allows you to capture a little piece of history in a tactile way. Indiana Jones made a rubbing of the engraved shield in The Last Crusade, if you want to watch the process in action.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 59 (view)
Emotional Bankruptcy
Posted: 11/8/2014 11:03:48 AM

After while of getting the same results wouldn't you be indifferent to people too. It eventually wears on you to the point where you become indifferent.

At this point, watching you and K go back and forth, I'd have to agree that she is right AND you are disagreeing with her because you know it makes you look better. What you keep saying though, is that you agree with her in that the women are to blame. You just don't want to LOOK like you agree. Right there, in that statement. After a while of getting the same results... I'd change what I was doing. One of the definitions of Insanity is repeating the same actions and EXPECTING different results.

Now... if after a while you are CONTINUALLY doing something radically different every time, but you get the same results... then I would STOP COMPLETELY! Why? Because you are obviously not letting yourself SEE what the problem is. Maybe you keep going for women who are "out of your league" or you keep being attracted to women with personality disorders. Maybe you are a manipulative liar who hasn't really been all that honest in this thread. Who knows? All we know is that you say you keep getting the same results. That means that you believe something you are doing SHOULD work, and you can't understand why. Identify those things you believe should be working.... and stop doing them.

Most definitely though... there is something you are doing that you believe is correct and the way things should be. Something... or multiple somethings. THOSE are the things that you need to change. Those constants, those standards you live by... you need to really examine them. That's where your problems are. Those are the things you haven't altered... and since your results BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION have not changed, you need to look at the things within yourself you are unwilling to change... and change them until you start getting different results.

Need some kind of concrete example? Ok. You decide to water the grass. You connect the hose, you connect the sprayer, and you turn the hose on... and nothing. You examine the sprayer, you examine the hose, you change out the hose and the sprayer... and still nothing. All the time, you swear that the water spigot SHOULD work... so you never go and examine the piping or whether or not the exterior spigot was turned off for the winter. Unless you examine everything from the hand held sprayer nozzle at the end, all the way to the freaking water bill and EVERYTHING in-between.... and unless you suspect EVERYTHING, you will never find what is actually wrong.

Of course, you need to be willing to change what is wrong. That's a whole different thing.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 32 (view)
Do you leave when the all has gone?
Posted: 11/3/2014 11:19:06 PM

Back to topic - OP you seem to be suggesting that we should all be "settling". If that's the case I could have been on my second honeymoon by now...........with whoever it was I decided to marry

There is a massive difference between "settling" and "making bad decisions"... if you make a bad decision, and instead of owning up to it you blame it on settling... then marrying the wrong man is the least of your problems.

Please give some of us enough credit to know that we wouldn't be happy sharing our lives with someone who, quite frankly, would make it unbearable.

It is only unbearable if YOU make it so. You settle in EVERY other aspect of your life. You settle for the car you drive, and where you live and what you wear, and what you buy at the store for food, and where you go, and where you work. You had no choice of who you work with... you had to settle and learn to get along with your co-workers. You had no choice with whom you went to school with. You had to settle and learn to get along with other students. You settle all the time. When you stop moving, you settle. But that isn't really the issue.

It appears that you believe you should be able to dictate every aspect of your life... if you think you should never "settle". You are looking to partner up with another human being. He will never be "perfect". That doesn't exist. He might be close enough for you to "settle".... and you will settle. You just won't admit to it being that. You'll argue semantically, and choose other words... but it will still be settling. You'll learn that the things you don't like aren't all that important, or at least that they aren't worth losing this guy. That still isn't the issue though.

The real issue is... different. You aren't a very open minded person. I believe you might attempt to argue that point, but by saying that you won't settle, that means you aren't open to new things, meeting new people, learning to like new things, etc. It means you'll never meet the right man... because the right man isn't the match for who you are now. The right man is the match for who you'll become... since he'll be open minded enough to accept you now, and accept you then.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 20 (view)
Do you leave when the all has gone?
Posted: 11/2/2014 12:28:10 PM

There’s something that’s always puzzled me. People go on and on about how satisfied they are with their life. They have friends. They enjoy activities. They’re not needy financially. They enjoy a variety of activities. They have a full life but they would like a partner to share those intimate moments with.

Hmm. Wine and roses... beauty, sun shining from the sky at all times. Wonderful. Where EXACTLY are these people going on and on about how satisfied they are with their life? Is it on a dating site? Or is it in the line to the supermarket? Getting coffee at the local shop? Do the customers you talk to at work do this all the time? In short, are you talking about a specific subset of people here? Or are you attempting to make us all believe you are talking about a majority of people on the planet in general?

Because if you are talking about women on dating sites... this is something relatively specific. What you are seeing here is someone who wants you to BELIEVE what she says about her life. She wants to TELL you who she is, and TELL you what she does and thinks... so you will never challenge her actions when they contradict her words. No... I am most definitely NOT telling you that all confident women are actually manipulators. What I'm saying is that if you are on a dating site, and you read a woman's profile that makes it all seem like perfect wine and roses... it obviously isn't. She wouldn't be on a dating site if it were.

Then comes the “must have” list. The partner’s activities, their interests, their job, their political views, their likes and dislikes…’s as if the person intends to completely end their former life and associate with only the partner.

This is the second half. Women who paint the first picture above, and then paint THIS picture of exactly who they want are telling you that they will only accept this. It means they don't want to accept someone for who they are.... they will only accept someone whom they can mold INTO the man they want. Unfortunately, they will never respect a man they can manipulate so easily.... so any man who answers that ad is doomed to a relationship failure.

Your question is... based on the wrong information. You work with the assumption that the first picture is true. It isn't. That makes the rest of your question very misguided. Think about it. You say...

My question is if ones life is so great and the only thing missing is someone for intimate moments why all the other “must haves”?
but you failed to notice that someone obsessed with being in control was behind writing that profile. Her life isn't so great. There are many things missing. She just doesn't want to you see. She doesn't want you to see that she is attempting to control her man from the very beginning, by showing you she is attempting to control the image you see of her as well as attempting to control the very personality aspects of the man she wants to get involved with.

What you should REALLY be taking away from all of this is... when you see these profiles, no matter how cute the girl is, just keep on flipping through the profiles. If it is legit, you aren't the man for her since if you fit her request you won't complain. If it is not legit, then she is just a narcissist control freak and you are saving yourself a lot of pain.
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 18 (view)
The reason why a man wont take you on a date and just want to chill at the house.
Posted: 11/2/2014 12:12:33 PM
So... what is your question.

I mean, did you just post a declaratory statement to show off somethings you believe? I mean, we all are entitled to believe what we like... just as we are entitled to be delusional if we choose.

For example... just so we can be clear. Why would a man not take a girl on a date and want to just chill at the house? Who's house? His house? Her house? Do they live together? Don't you think any of that makes a difference... at all? But let's get to the meat.

Reason #1. They don't respect you. Yes. It is possible that HE doesn't respect HER. Of course, she could always make a scene when they go out... and he might not respect that, and would be correct in feeling that way. So... although he might not respect her, their relationship might be crappy enough to where she actually earned that disrespect. It's possible.

Reason #2. She doesn't have a high enough ROI. Quite possible. Then again, maybe she didn't give him enough of a reason to go out. People who go out just to go out, can learn to say in... just to stay in. Want to avoid Cabin Fever? Don't live in a Cabin.

Reason #3. His Ego won't allow him to be honest and say that he can't afford to take her out. Really? It is FAR MORE LIKELY that he most certainly DID admit he didn't have enough money to take her out... and she just conveniently didn't hear that bit whenever she repeats the story to everyone else. In other words, making him look like an uncaring ***hole, when in point of fact, she only accept selective pieces of reality and stitches them together into incomplete pictures she uses for people to pass judgement on her mate.

So... what exactly was your point in referring to women as commodities (ROI) and men as egotistical, selfish cowards?
Joined: 4/8/2004
Msg: 28 (view)
Should I Ask Her If It Was a Date?
Posted: 10/27/2014 9:24:05 AM
For a comp sci major who is a software developer, you don't seem to recognize the fact that you are relabeling something. You can call it what you want. Just like in programming, you can choose the name of the field, but that doesn't necessarily change the function. Call the variable $Name or $First_Name or $Jungle_Cat and it will still do the same thing. It's not what you call it, it is what you do with it.

Yes. You went on dates. You did things that people do on dates. Call them Orange Meeting Slices if you want, instead of dates... if that makes you feel more comfortable.

What happens if you don't define a variable, but then attempt to use it? You *could* talk to this girl. You know... about this kind of stuff.

Communicate. It's what's for dinner. The New White Meat.
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