Notice: Forums will be shutdown by June 2019

To focus on better serving our members, we've decided to shut down the POF forums.

While regular posting is now disabled, you can continue to view all threads until the end of June 2019. Event Hosts can still create and promote events while we work on a new and improved event creation service for you.

Thank you!

          

Show ALL Forums
Posted In Forum:

Home   login   MyForums  
 
 Author Thread: Does this recent experiment end once and for all the debate on who gets more messages?
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 8 (view)
 
Does this recent experiment end once and for all the debate on who gets more messages?
Posted: 9/2/2018 8:47:04 AM
There are many many thirsty men out there who will debase themselves for a chance with a woman. There's reasons for this condition in modern society that have been building for decades if not centuries, but that's another topic. In the end it is the human race becoming more like the animals one would see on "Wild Kingdom" and similar. Sprinting competitions for her amusement? Might as well be two animals bashing each other's heads.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 44 (view)
 
if you really want a smoke show...
Posted: 9/6/2015 8:57:49 PM

invest in muscle cars.


The ship for that sailed years ago. They won't be valueless but we are about at the peak for them IMO. There might be some more upside to come but I suspect most boomers who wanted to buy have bought. They'll be trading among themselves at the present high prices for awhile and then they'll get too old, start dying, etc and the liquidations will begin. The bargains right now are probably in 80s cars and some mid-late 70s cars. The problem with investing in cars is secure and ideally climate controlled storage. Easier in some parts of the country than others. If I had the money and storage space for cars when I was 19 I would be a millionaire today. So many cars I couldn't afford in four figures became six figure cars.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 126 (view)
 
sounds like a fat chance, anyway
Posted: 9/6/2015 8:38:03 PM

This is a dangerous question to a guy like me. They ask "How's online dating?" "Have you been successful?"
Every single time that I answered Yes, the woman then went on to label me a player a serial dater and that was the first and last date.


Answering that it is not going well is fatal as well. It has to be going well enough but not too well I suppose. It appears to me it's a test question to see how desirable a man is.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 203 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/24/2014 10:25:30 PM
No, you're missing the point. The biggest problem with men who use this approach is that they're not taking into account the woman in question. You can up your response rate by messaging the women most likely to message you back; and realizing that sometimes it's just not gonna happen.


You sure do like creating a tangent and running with it. But I'm in the mood for playing along, so what the hell. All these men you don't want contacting you can also write you a thoughtful message or just quick form messages. These are two independent topics. You don't like unacceptable men bothering you. I get it. I got it a few pages back. But acceptable or unacceptable men and thoughtful or broadcast technique are too different things. There are many decent looking men with things going for them that will use a broadcast method.

I'm going to tell you a story. I knew a lot of girls and women sorta like you in this respect through my teens and 20s. That's where I learned self limiting behaviors in dating. To not be that guy. The guy of the day that shouldn't even have talked to them, hit on them, flirted with them. The guy that was too ugly, too shy, too young, too old, too short, too tall, poorly dressed, too fancy, too this, not enough of that. The 30-60 year old guys that flirted with the late teens and early 20s cashiers where I worked in HS. I learned not to be that guy. So you don't need to give me that lecture. I got that message loud and clear many times over a long time ago at an impressionable age where it became programming.

But here's the problem, to get dates one has to be that guy sometimes. Take the risk of being that guy and thus be him time and time again. Because information is always lacking, incomplete, and typically non-existent. Some women are incredibly narrow in what guys are acceptable and unacceptable and others the entire opposite. Without knowing but not wanting to be that guy a man is pretty much stuck.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 184 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/21/2014 6:00:53 PM

Wow, does it REALLY take 20 minutes to send a creative, well thought out message? I'm surprised by that estimate.


It's the entire process starting with combing through profiles and ending with proof reading a message. I may be over estimating for illustrative purposes, but even at a few minutes it would illustrate the point that was made. It's the difference between being selective and broadcasting. Seems life on this planet tends more to the later than the former.

Then again maybe I'm just a slow writer.... but if I don't take that time the tone ends up all wrong all too often.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 176 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/20/2014 9:39:02 PM

So you do something that guarantees that you'll only get a 1-2% chance of a reply; then claim you're doing it because you only have a 1-2% chance of a reply.


You're missing the point. It takes about 20 minutes to write a creative well thought out message. It takes a few seconds to send a generic one. The success rate between the new methods expressed as a percentage of messages that get replies is about the same. Honestly I think the creative ones would be higher, but would take 100 of them at 20 minutes or more each to see that.

So think of it this way, he has an hour. He cranks out 100 generic messages. He gets two replies. Or he cranks out 3 creative messages and gets no replies. Which hour was better spent? Now maybe after he's invested 2000 minutes, the 100 creative messages might get four replies, double the rate. But, in 2000 minutes the 3333 generic messages he could have sent would get 67 replies at a 2% response rate. Get a reply for every 30 minutes of effort or one for every 500 minutes, (8 hours, 20 minutes) of effort?
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 149 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/6/2014 6:03:15 PM

Sure. If you're complaining about living in an expensive area because so many other people just like you are willing to pay up to live there, then you should definitely vote with your feet and take an equivalent pay cut to go along with it instead of suggesting that the person who said '50k' is being kind of puny. I thought you said you were self-sufficient, but not cheap.


I wasn't complaining about being in an expensive area. Didn't say or suggest anyone was 'puny'. Do you always project so much into things? I cracked a joke. Even marked it with ;) and text. Lighten up Francis. And it's a joke about the expectations of some women more than the expense of the area. Believe me, if I lived up to the expectations of some of the women around here I'd be up to my eyeballs in debt like some I knew who had to please their wives with big houses in right neighborhoods and such.

As to this and the rest, I don't know how I set you off, it seems you just want to get some digs in for some reason. I wasn't even replying to you nor did I disparage anyone personally. I am guessing rather than not reading for context or comprehension you were intentionally missing the point. But in case it was the former, please re-read and you'll note you've misinterpreted everything.

By the way, Coburn isn't a good looking guy and neither am I. same big lower lip, big head, ears sticking out, etc. The movie script joke should have clued you in. Remember Flint was James Bond -parody-. But just for you, An older photo of me in a tux and I found a pic of Coburn in a tux, with nearly the same expression. Hope that satisfies you. I'll leave it there for a little while before removing it.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 146 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/5/2014 10:32:27 PM

So really tell me, which of the two are shallow? The guy who's just looking for an equal that we enjoy each other's company, or the hypothetical girl who won't date us because we only making in the 40ks instead of 50s?


50k? I should move to where you are. Here it's a 100K and even then be in debt to have nice things :) I am joking. A little.


On the other hand, I've seen exactly ONE unrealistic woman.


There are a lot more of them online. Women who offer nothing but burdens looking for a man who can carry those burdens. Maybe it's just my area, but I doubt it.


Man who takes care of himself, of his kids, has a job where the basics are covered and every once in a while he can treat himself or others, is smart, funny, attentive, etc = ABOVE AVERAGE... What we see here are a lot of below average men refusing to accept anything less than above average (even expecting thin is expecting "above average" btw, since 80 percent of women are overweight to obese). This is not a reasonable expectation for the average man, since there aren't enough thin women to go around.


I find this amusing. According to this I need to increase my expectations. Maybe go from 'big boobs' to 'thin and big boobs' ;) (yes, that's a joke), but really if only women judged men by what they say they judge men by and the last thing I would need is an online dating site. I'd be in like Flint. Speaking of Flint, James Coburn is the only actor I've been said to look like (when he was my age of course) and it takes a movie script to make up for that. :)

Seriously I've found the judgments to be on every little thing and then to very fine measure. I've even done my own experiment on another site with regards to height after repeated rejections for being too tall. It's just amazing. You may not believe it, but I've experienced it first hand.


My grandfather died at 68 with a six-pack. He got up at 4 every morning hauling logs, splitting wood, etc. He built the house all 14 of his children grew up in. He did every repair around the house... the man never stopped moving. Most men I meet now are winded walking up the stairs.


Women aren't interested in self-sufficient men like that any more best I can tell. I'm one of them. (no six pack because my job is mostly intellectual, not physical labor, but I still do everything myself) It's now apparently considered being 'cheap'.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 135 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/3/2014 4:44:15 PM
Is your standard really that a guy MUST have no flaws, MUST have ALL the qualities a woman wants, but any single imperfection means he's wrong for not dealing with a woman who is ugly, AND dumb, AND bitter, AND angry, AND fat?


That's online dating in a nutshell. I would put a smiley here, but really, one and out is the way it's been for me. I've turned it on its head though and found the best way to reject a woman I've been conversing with. It is to let her know the one thing about me that goes against her list of requirements. She will reject me and thus won't feel bad.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 133 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 10/1/2014 6:03:34 PM

yet I've never heard a man describe himself as "below average".


I previously resisted responding to this, but since so many others are, why not?
There are a number of things where I am below average and I've put some of them in online dating profiles. Do I come right out and say it's below average? no. I don't come right out and say the above average things are so either. The reader can figure both out.


They change their game plan from sending well-thought out messages to "quality" women to sending crappy messages to "quality" women.


Well what I did was go from sending well thought out messages to quality women to not sending out any at all. But the reality is that the numbers game works if one's objective is simply to get dates. The well thought out messages are the 'put all your money on one number' approach. The spew of simple messages takes the same total effort but has a higher chance of success. Like putting a little money on as many numbers as possible. Refusal to do it is a personal choice.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 124 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 9/29/2014 3:55:57 PM
Conclusion: No one wants to hear the truth, so the truth shall not set you free, it shall shatter the illusion that rents space in your head.


Illusion busting is very socially unacceptable. I've learned that the hard way.


UK close to France?? I think the perception of what's close and far is different for europeans and americans, haha. But more than up for it! Very unlikely though.


France is a lot closer to the UK than Chicago is to NYC.

Common sense is not common and judging by the numerous threads created by men on the same kinds of topics, I'd stay it holds. Judging by the rate of divorce, which according to research, women initiate more than men, I'd say we are selecting and terminating our selections.


IME I would say so. I know it's not like that for everyone, but for me, it is. Job interview dating where every word, action, or lack there of is judged and weighed. Sadly that's how I've experienced dating many more times than not and really it's not particularly enjoyable.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 94 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 9/23/2014 9:24:12 PM

As for my photo, being "clearly cropped at the neck" nope, that was just the way they were taken as was the one behind the desk. I figure that men can understand that a head shot like those indicate that I'm NOT overweight, last time I checked you don't just gain weight on your BODY, it will show in your face,too.


The resolution looks like it was cropped and enlarged. Possibly because it was from the time POF watermarked, which is another clue. POF hasn't watermarked photos for years. And you'd be surprised what lurks outside a well-cropped, well angled, head shot sometimes. Sure, most times one can guess well at the rest from facial clues, but not always. Eventually the head shot only becomes suspect in and of it self. No time is spent analyzing it, looking for clues, it's just 'next'. Also body shape is important for physical attraction. Not that any one is better than another, but everyone has their preferences.


Of course I am assuming that is what the "just doesn't go well from there" is referring to...


Looks and the person. After a little time it becomes clear that people who create their profiles in similar ways are often similar. The same way facial clues can be a 'tell' for someone who is obese the profile itself, in its whole, is a 'tell' for the person who wrote it and chose the photos.


Anyway...I'm not interested in putting up pics of myself in lingerie, or thongs,or bathing suits etc.


Jeans and T-shirt? A simple dress? Something worn to work? on the 'edit profile' page there's a woman who does a tutorial video... that's good enough. She's wearing a freebee company T-shirt. Also the second tutorial video actually covers 'what is a good photo'.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 79 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 9/20/2014 7:52:17 PM

What constitutes a "good picture"? Just curious..


A photo that includes your entire body. In your profile you have three head shots.
I don't know about other men but every time I've entertained head-shot-only women, especially those that are clearly cropped at the neck, well it just doesn't go well from there.


"+100, if any guy says he won't reply when an attractive woman simply says hello or hi too break the ice, he's either lying...or gay"
Wrong.
Some men have standards in addition to libidos.


I don't see how it is compromising standards to simply respond to a generic 'hello' message from an attractive woman when one wouldn't from an unattractive woman. It's that the risk/reward ratio is better with the attractive one. It might turn out to be worth it. If she shows no further promise from there, then standards are involved. The odds are really bad with generic messages, but it's worth the gamble with someone who is attractive. Think about all the people who don't play the lotto unless the prize is very high. Same way of thinking.


So in order for men we don't want to write us better messages we probably won't want to read (because they're from men we don't want to write us)... WE have to compromise.


No compromise. Just a write a profile with something to go on. But if you don't want messages from men who will actually take the time to write something nice, something unique, then yeah a profile of generic statements is perfect.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 35 (view)
 
To reply to generic messages or not??
Posted: 9/13/2014 9:06:57 PM
I get the same from women. "hey" or "how are you?". It's nice that they wrote and I used to reply if they were suitably attractive to me. And while it might sound bad making physical appearance the way to judge, it was the only way I had to judge beyond age, height, and location type stuff.

Most women have profiles from which I cannot create a well written creative individualized response. Even the ones with lots of words are usually filled with the same generic stuff that a form email would work for and any response to would come off as one.

So I get this 'Hi' message and the profile is nearly empty or is filled with 'love to travel' type generic stuff... My profiles (I don't use this one but to rarely read the forums now) have always been full of stuff to comment on, so there's no excuse. Anyways I am trying to make do with nothing. And thus it never went anywhere. So I started ignoring all of them really. I suppose if I got one from a woman that was really attractive I'd still try, but every one of those has turned out to be a fake profile. Yes, if it's too good to be true I use reverse image search and it usually is.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 16 (view)
 
Meet Me - To see all the people who want to meet you Upgrade Now
Posted: 5/26/2014 6:10:14 PM
Another established feature goes behind the paywall, probably the most useless one yet.

Just make the site entirely subscription and be done with it. But then you'll need 'free weekends' and bots to contact guys to make them think actual women are interested... of course all within the last hours of the free weekend.

Either use the free to use ad supported model or the subscription model that cons people into it. Don't use something that generally means nothing to try and con people into paying.

Yes, this complaint applies to too. Where once the 'quickmatch' feature went behind the paywall suddenly there were all these women that 'liked' me where no email ever arrived. I expect the same thing will happen here too.

'150 women want to meet you, just pay for a subscription and find out who' LOL.

Are people really desperate enough to believe that crap?
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Why does inexperience make women so uncomfortable?
Posted: 6/25/2013 10:26:36 PM
He admits to being afraid to touch women. That is not a rational response to an encounter with a woman unless perhaps you just aren't into women.


He did not however say why he was afraid.
The 'why' is the key. It may be rather rational. There's been a lot of bad 'educational' efforts over the last 20 years. We don't know what he was exposed to.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 22 (view)
 
Why does inexperience make women so uncomfortable?
Posted: 6/11/2013 8:08:31 PM

Confidence. Inexperience means you don't have confidence or the ability to take (calculated) risks. So, push come to shove you are more than likely unable to rise to the occasion.


Many inexperienced people confidently take risks.

Often one's experiences, how things turned out for good or bad drive one's risk taking.

Doesn't seem like that's quite it.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Why does inexperience make women so uncomfortable?
Posted: 6/11/2013 5:33:19 PM
What is 'experience' ?

That's the first question that needs to be answered.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 579 (view)
 
Message Restrictions
Posted: 6/8/2013 1:50:15 PM

I guess you've never been a woman with a profile on a paid site. I never got so much crap email from one website in my life until i signed up for yahoo personals one day after they went from a free to a paid site.
That's because they are all fake messages sent by the site to get you to sign up (or stay signed up) and men get those as well. This goes for pretty much all pay sites.


Yep. Pay sites are full of fake profiles. Far more than free sites. Free sites are self policing and there is a motivation for the site owner to clean out the fake profiles. On a pay for site there is incentive to keep them around, even create them.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 577 (view)
 
Message Restrictions
Posted: 6/7/2013 7:52:31 PM

The message received each and every time is, "________ is not accepting messages from someone of your age or gender". Oh really, they made that decision for themselves?


That's likely because the code was simply crudely patched in the section that checks for the recipient's age range preferences. It's probably just an if statement inserted that does the math on the relative ages and compares it to the 14 year standard.

Of course it would have just been as easy to make a not set age rage force set to +/- 14 until the user changed it to something.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 568 (view)
 
Message Restrictions
Posted: 6/5/2013 7:06:46 PM

A smarter way to have handled this situation would have been to auto enable the age and IE filter on all female accounts and on new accounts. Making them opt-out filters rather than opt-in. That way people have the option to change the filter to what suits them and clueless users aren't victims of failing to check the filters.

I don’t believe it, an intelligent, thoughtful answer to the problems that Marcus THINKS he has.


Several have suggested that through the thread.
It has thus far been ignored by the administration.
This would indicate that it's not just solving a problem some users are having. Something else is also at play.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 251 (view)
 
Can women REALLY get laid whenever they want?
Posted: 7/26/2011 8:36:04 PM

Well, from first hand experience, I can tell you that it makes dating a snap. Being able to get laid with a phone call made it far easier to not let sex cloud my judgment in dating. You also can't be manipulated with sex when you don't really care if it's being offered and you won't ever be tempted to put up with GPS.


When sex does not work as a tool of manipulation or even seem to be something that is sought as a primary reason for dating the result is confusion or assumed lack of interest IME.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 33 (view)
 
Messaging those who viewed you......
Posted: 7/19/2011 9:50:49 PM

A few times a woman looked at one of my male friend's profile on a different dating site. But didn't contact him. He contacted these women a few days later and they responded to him. Perhaps these women were passive or "old fashioned" and expected a man to make initial contact. Or perhaps these women liked his profile. But felt that he wouldn't be interested in them. Based on what he mentioned on his profile.


For a guy to contact a woman who viewed his profile but didn't write is considered creepy except when it isn't. The question is, when is that and how to tell? If a site showed repeated views that would be a good sign. POF doesn't.

Sometimes I view a profile and everything that's there is just fine... just can't think of anything unique to write.... that's it. Since 'hi' and other generic messages are generally disliked or not even noticed, I hope to come up with something in the future and usually don't. Odds are unless it was deceiving thumbnail photo or a mis-click it's probably ok for a woman to write a guy who views but doesn't write, so almost always.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Unintentionally rude messages?
Posted: 7/19/2011 9:31:11 PM
Some of it could be clueless... but I agree that more often than not it is likely a manipulative technique. This 'neg' thing as it was called earlier in the thread is in those 'how to create attraction' ads and such that are on POF and elsewhere. They called it something else, but it is the same thing.

I suppose without some sort of mass numbers technique online dating is pretty pointless for a guy, since I don't do that and it's been well... pointless. I rarely write anyone. The profiles of most women just read the same to me.. same things over and over again with nothing that is unique or even remotely interesting. Nothing really to write about. Just pretty pictures now and then. I can see how it would be effective to use some sort of manipulative technique to game a response or just send out the same friendly message hundreds of times. Writing individualized responses takes time and effort and is damn near impossible with a majority of the profiles I see. 'wants a tall guy, loves to travel, is a cubs fan, blah blah blah blah'...... If I decided to put effort to it I could write a standard message that would seem personalized :)

As to clueless I once saw a woman's profile where she jokingly wrote 'yes, they let girls fly' because she was a pilot. I made some joke regarding a Lockheed Electra. After I sent I realized it could be taken the wrong way. A (perhaps stupid) way of displaying some aviation knowledge. Oh well...
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 105 (view)
 
looks or profile, what attracts you first?
Posted: 7/14/2011 4:56:46 PM

Fact of the matter is, the internet affords people the luxury to be who they want to be. IN person its very different.

Case in point, an email you can think about what you have to say, keep the lie going and refer back to previous emails. You have time to think to construct the lie and keep it going. In person, no such luxury is afforded so you quickly find out what they're about and whether they're a waste of time or worth a shot.


Simply it's just easier online. One can pretend to be anything they want in person too but limited to one's physicality. It just takes greater skill and different skills. Unskilled liars don't refer back to previous emails or think things out online or in person. The skilled who want to craft a good story have already crafted it before they set out. They have a complete fictional background already established, they know the character they are going to play. The example I am thinking of is undercover police work. They set up an entire fictional background for the role they are going to play.

Countless liars have gone into relationships fooling the other person the whole way and done it convincingly. It just takes being able to get into a role like a good actor.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 93 (view)
 
looks or profile, what attracks you first?
Posted: 7/10/2011 11:12:46 PM
Ahh the profile turn offs...

It seems that almost all the profiles of women in my region are really generic. There's simply nothing to write about. I guess the guy is supposed to come up with something to write about... but there's nothing there. And since simple messages like 'hi' aren't generally liked well... pass. To be creative and personal in a message requires some info to use that is at least unique to the person. I suppose there is commenting on their photos but that hasn't worked the once or twice I did although I kept it nice and non-sexual. Maybe that's the problem:)

The ones looking for a 'nice guy, honest guy, good guy' are just telegraphing to me that they pick guys that aren't nice, honest, or good as the case may me. I'm not interested in reforming their outlook on men. Been there. Done that. Not doing it again.

But you've left one type off... the profile that is nothing but a list of requirements for a guy. By the time I've read through them I have no interest, even though I meet these requirements more often that not. Why not write? Because that's probably not what she's looking for or it is and there's another list of untyped stuff that I'm sure to be lacking one little qualification or another resulting in summary rejection anyway! :)
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 212 (view)
 
Can women REALLY get laid whenever they want?
Posted: 6/21/2011 12:07:12 AM

OT: Men can get laid when they want if they don't put limits on the situation (i.e. paying for it, etc). Women can get laid when they want if they don't put limits on the situation (i.e. pickiness). Situation may be different, but the math is the same. Both may have to look outside the box to make it happen. The only difference here is men seem to think they have to have it to live. Maybe that's because they get less based on their choices/preferences. Has nothing to do with us.


Actually not every man does think it is required to live, but in this culture it is accepted that a man pays for it one way or another. The consumer society in which we live in the USA is largely based on that a man will pay for sex. It is not uncommon for advertising and such to be aimed at women such that men will spend money to get sex. Not to mention the fact that much of what is aimed at men is about how it will make him stand out from the pack to women. From expensive cars and homes to synthetic holidays like sweetest day to the diamond engagement ring to the competitive part of dating where if a guy doesn't spend money on the most trivial or silly of things or just has a different preference at least some women will automatically think of him as cheap.

Thus for most men all it takes is lowering standards and spending money (or at least creating an appearance or illusion of wealth with credit). Far more women become available. For women it's much the same. Lowering standards and financial expectations increase the number available. For instance, women expecting men to provide them with world travel have relatively few options.

Ultimately a woman can lower her standards and expectations to zero but a man usually has a limit to which he can increase his spending. Although all the cheap credit of the last decade or more has worked social damage in dating such that those men who didn't take on huge sums of debt were placed at a competitive disadvantage. Anyway that's the heart of this matter, the way the culture is set up women can go to zero, men can't.

Sure there are people who don't play by those cultural rules/trends/whatever, but they are relatively few and far between and the nature of dating as the "game" aspect of it is currently set up really isn't good for them. Odds are they are over represented in a forum such as this so before I post this I already know there will be people who state it doesn't apply to them. For some it is true, some just want to think so... and that's another problem. Even for people where their relationships end up based on something of more substance, the initial dating was often sparked by something considerably more superficial and along the more typical lines.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 158 (view)
 
rejection-how do you handle it?
Posted: 5/2/2011 9:41:22 PM
The problem is when rejection is so expected that not being rejected becomes the greater problem. It's easy to get used to rejection. But if rejection doesn't happen... then what? :)

womaninprogress on 3/26/2011 11:09:25 AM wrote:

A job interview isn't about someone being physically attracted to someone else, so I don't know why this is a valid comparison.


Many dates are like job interviews IME. One of the reasons my comparatively low interest in dating comes from 'job interview' dates. Too many women I've gone out with have a little phrase, sound, or something while evaluating what I said before moving to the next question. They don't do conversation, it's question-and-answer. I try to get conversation going and she cuts short and asks another question. It makes a date about as enjoyable as a job interview. This feeling of being evaluated and being looked at to say the right thing means I don't even want to go on another date even if I pass the first interview. I don't want another job... but that's what being their 'boy friend' apparently is... so I go away.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 39 (view)
 
Dating if you hate Xmas
Posted: 12/18/2009 11:42:15 PM

The main reason why people hate Christmas is because they're tight.


I think not. I think it's the stress of shopping in general and the stress of getting the right thing. It isn't a good feeling when you spend time and effort shopping and then the present goes over like a lead balloon.

oh and now there's the whole thing about getting the best deal... and the competition to get certain items before they go out of stock..... online shopping is kind of a safety valve but has it's own stresses if the gift arrives in time...
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 31 (view)
 
Dating if you hate Xmas
Posted: 12/18/2009 3:52:35 PM
I hate shopping and this holiday has become about shopping and not much else. Instead of a Christmas mood it's news reports on well the retailers are doing. It's pain to even go out because of all the traffic of people shopping. The decorations go up in September which is way out of wack to have the right mood. That's how christmas got ruined.

It would be nice to have Christmas back instead of what exists today. More parties, less shopping. If that happens I might even start putting xmas lights again... real C9's of course, not those tiny modern lights or crappy C9 replicas. ;)

Right now I would settle for a news report on the status of the piles of road salt instead of another report on how the retailers are doing to make it feel more like Christmas.


 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 4 (view)
 
Tall Men Speed Dating
Posted: 11/28/2009 9:55:22 PM
To post#2: And what looks worst of all is a man who tells the truth, especially if it's down played.

Anyway, as far as the OP's topic goes, it's perfectly okay for women to discriminate based on height. It is unacceptable for men to discriminate on practically any physical feature, especially weight and breast size. Just the way the society is at the moment.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 13 (view)
 
Certain professions or leisure activites a turn-off ?
Posted: 11/28/2009 9:42:21 PM


I tend to agree about the Mechanics. That smell makes me want to throw up. And it gets into their pores. Gross. If a man has no ambition then whatever his job and believes that a roof over his head, food in his stomach and soft toilet paper are all he needs to be happy, I could care less if he is a brain surgeon. EHW! Although it is more likely he has a nowhere job and is hoping I will fall madly in love with him and take care of him with such a nowhere attitude.


How dare a man be happy with his life! There's no reason to EVER be happy, until you're pulling 6 digits quarterly. And then he should still be moderately miserable and feel like he's not making enough money.

Seriously, as long as the guy is supporting himself, I don't understand the disdain. Unless you're planning on making him support you, in which case you'd better be a damn good housewife.


It's some sort of primitive animal trait showing itself and being rationalized. To be satisfied with any level of material comfort doesn't work with it. That drive for more, more, and more is a successful trait for mating when there isn't much around. It also might be coupled with a desire that everyone else have nothing. That creates the kind of sociopaths that end up in high places who the create economic conditions that go towards those ends.

It kind of makes sense if life is very difficult and there is very little to go around. It just doesn't make much sense in today's society. People have progressed in their productivity to the point where one can be satisfied. Although that primitive trait works to destroy what brought about that productivity.

BTW It's good to know that my profession, mechanical engineer, is the cross roads of unacceptable geekiness mixed with unacceptable blue-collar work. :) At this point it is no shock to me.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 9 (view)
 
Certain professions or leisure activites a turn-off ?
Posted: 11/28/2009 7:42:01 PM
Hey what about us retired people that no longer have a profession!
Edit: Off Topic; I know many women don't like men that are retired at a young age, they always ask me why I don't want to work any more,!1. I don't have to 2. I have worked enough for 3 life times.
Then they say its sound like your lazy to me....
lazy, thats why I can retire, because I have worked hard and was very accomplished at what I did. Why do people associate retirement as being lazy and no income....


It's yet another dysfunction of american culture. I'm the type that works very hard to get stuff done. I've been able to do the work of multiple people in various jobs I've had and still be done inside 8 hours. I've found that people react in two different ways.

The first group sees that someone is done and then thinks he's lazy because he's "not working". He's done, he got more done in less time, but that's lazy.

The second group takes it as a threat to their own job or are just insecure control freaks. They don't like that someone who is more productive than they are so they start plotting and doing things to undermine the person they feel threatened by.

There is such a thing as 'enough money' for me. Time is better than money. Even if the time is spent in silly ways like this or sleeping. Both are better than being in some endless quest for more money. Money is a burden to manage too. A person who has enough can't even spend it all, so what's the point? A bike ride is more enjoyable than earning more money that is just digits on a bank statement.

For many women a guy being comfortable with what he has just isn't attractive. It's got to be more, more, and more. I've worked with and for guys who sold their souls in office politics to satisfy the material cravings of their wives. I'll spend my life alone before I end up like that.
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 49 (view)
 
Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/20/2009 2:42:35 PM

One of the early PC games was just that. Liesure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards.

I played one of the Leisure Suit Larry games once. It was a typical picture-text-adventure, only the theme and the environment was different. It played exactly like a D&D style one. Find objects, solve puzzles, navigate the 'maze', etc.

For those too young to have a clue what I'm talking about Homestarrunner.com makes their own 80s style games as part of the humor of the site. The game they have most like LSL is "Peasant's Quest". Just throw that in your favorite search engine and it will turn up.

Being successful at LSL has about as much value in dating as winning any other video game. (not that you said it did)
 xeot
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 43 (view)
 
Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/19/2009 8:11:41 PM
Internet dating isn't the cause of less acceptability of places to approach, rather I think it's the reaction to it.

There are some men who were really a problem for women with their persistence for the lack of a better term. The reaction to this was various notions/rules that boiled down to it was only acceptable to approach a woman who wanted a guy to approach. Of course all these new rules didn't do anything about the men who were a problem in the first place, but the guys who weren't a problem now didn't want to be seen as a 'jerk'. So they tried to obey these new rules. Many women I think started believing these rules as well.

These notions picked up in things like college freshman orientations and the like (The last one I had to go through was with regards to being a teaching assistant in grad school) where 'sexual harassment' and similar topics were discussed. Plus a guy starts hearing from women about how some guy was so horrible for approaching her at the store or something or was just plain wrong because he wasn't good enough for her. Hear enough stories like that and a guy who doesn't want be that horrible jerk will just not do anything that might result in such a perception.

Then there's the most powerful factor. The fear. We are told day in and day out to fear strangers from the time we are little kids. It's gotten worse since the 80s. There are feminist groups saying that 'all men are potential rapists' and things of that nature. There is the fear of crime in general too. Fear stories about 'date rape' and so on. The society is simply paranoid IMO. The person who stated that 'america is a solitary society' was so very correct. The fear of the other is so prevalent that it destroys interaction. This is probably more of a big city/metro area type thing, but it seems to even be hitting smaller towns now.

One guy said one out ten women would have a positive reaction and that made it just a numbers game.... if it were only that good such trial and error would be worth it. For many guys I don't think it's even close to that. I know it isn't for me. Maybe more like one out of a hundred, and when your daily life doesn't bring you into contact with many women it takes a long time to get to a hundred. ;)

The problem with internet dating is that it has all its own rules that are just as much of a paradox that has been the subject of many threads.

At this point I think the only solution for me is to move to another country or at least another state, away from big cities at least.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Extended Solar Minimum
Posted: 4/24/2009 2:25:02 PM

I'm just curious because, while you decry political motivations of those who support human-caused global warming, those who are opposed to that interpretation frequently have their own political agenda.


One only needs to see how man-made CO2 driven global warming theory is handled to know it is scam for the benefit of the powers that be. First, China, a rich country with trillions of dollars of reserves is not required to meet any CO2 targets let alone simple 'don't poison yourself' pollution prevention. If man made CO2 was a real issue, if the powers that be actually believed it themselves, the policy of leaving China exempt while the USA and other nations are not could not be. All these policies, treaties, what have you accomplish is to move the point of CO2 production from some place like Cleavland to some place like Tianjin. There are numerous other examples of power plays and funneling of wealth to governments and those attached to them, but nothing says it better than the key policy that shows they don't even believe it.

The other huge flaw is how the water man is adding to the system is neglected. It should have a much greater effect than CO2 because it has to be in the system somewhere. As water vapor it's green house gas, leaving the atmosphere it becomes precipitation (possibly increasing or decreasing it in various regions), then as a liquid it has to be in a body of water somewhere.


How do you explain the melting of the arctic tundra? The rapid retreat of glaciers around the world? The very real thinning of the arctic ice sheet - after all, the Northern Passage has actually opened for northern circumnavigation.

Spin and selective reporting. The media uses the same techniques to con people into wars and other nonsense that is desirable for governments. To scare people such that they allow a small minority to manage ever more of their lives.

The northwest passage has been navigable many times over the past century. It was first achieved in approximately 1906 if my memory is correct. It is quite the lie to present it as they do. Ice cover and thickness have been increasing in some areas, decreasing in others. But the earth, like mars and other planets should haven shown signs of warming because of increased solar output. Now that solar output is down earth and mars and other planets are showing signs of cooling. Lots is made of retreating glaciers, little is made of increasing thickness. Just go see photos of the 1950s soviet station where the entire building is now under the ice... or the 1940s aircraft under the greenland ice.

As to models, computer models are only as good as their assumptions. It's the assumptions that are the problem and why the models continue to fail real world tests.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 10 (view)
 
Extended Solar Minimum
Posted: 4/23/2009 10:01:08 PM
CO2 is a minor greenhouse gas. The reason there is so much focus on it as far as I can tell is because of the political power that controlling it offers. And since much of the research is government funded, it becomes a vicious cycle. Then there is the way that the computer models are accepted as truth but all they do is spit out a result that is consistent with the assumptions programmed into them.

As far as I can tell solar output is a much better fit to earth's climate than CO2. But note, often those who push man-made-CO2 global warming will produce data that only looks at a certain part of solar output like visible light and claim it invalidates solar influence. Total solar energy was up while we had the hot years and now that it is down we are getting colder ones.

cooling vs. warming. Snowball earth theory has been making gains in acceptance, it's a real theory based on geological evidence. Warming is usually associated with periods of advancement in human civilization. That is the powers that be often lose their grip on people. That said, the monster will eat the sun (or other environmental hazard) and you will die unless you do what we say scam has worked for rulers for thousands of years. 'global warming' tells me it still works pretty good.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 82 (view)
 
Ladies.....is anyone else NOT amused by.......
Posted: 4/16/2009 7:54:13 PM
Now POF has the height in the basic profile, but other places online I've gotten one liners from women asking how tall I am. I've been tempted to ask them their bra size in return. :)
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 58 (view)
 
Would you dismiss someone just because they like the rival team ?
Posted: 4/11/2009 11:08:23 PM

'm a Cub fan. Love the team. I have no problem dating someone who likes another team.


I don't follow baseball in any detail of significance. I'll know the executive summary on the white sox but that is about it. However, it's a very trendy thing in Chicago to be a cubs fan. I'm old enough to remember when wrigley field was practically empty for games back in the early 1980s. Anyway I've been summarily rejected more than once for not being a cub fan. Being a sox fan is just one of the things that make me unfashionable ;)
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:29:03 PM

Notice that those sites never show you who the paid members are? That would be too easy... And too revealing!

They even have profile approval processes to make sure people don't say they only have the 'free' account in their profiles too.

The 'free' profile would go away entirely if they didn't need numbers for advertising purposes.

I'm not bored enough to do this exercise, but the percentage of paid accounts could be calculated by taking the number of profiles match claims to have on their site then divide the gross revenue (might be impossible to find if they are privately owned) on their annual report by an average annual cost from the fee structure. These two numbers give estimates of total profiles and paid members. If match sells advertising space the percentage of paying customers will be skewed upwards.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 29 (view)
 
Talk About Being Impatient
Posted: 4/8/2009 7:13:55 PM
It's not about being impatient, but rather a bad reaction to a standard form of rejection, which even if the OP was being honest and accurate, that's what it usually is and how he interpreted it.

If were in a conversation online with a woman and it went that way I would interpret it as a rejection. I wouldn't say anything about it. I would just play a long with it. My experience at that point tells me I will never hear from the woman again. Either I've said something that was a little bit off or I'm not a perfect fit for the ideal in her head or someone more interesting has come along. po-tee-tweet, so it goes.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 12 (view)
 
Is desparation a turn-off?
Posted: 4/6/2009 6:38:44 PM

However, I've seen some see "desperate" as when someone shows them a lot of interest. I remember a woman whom I showed a lot of interest in (because I thought she was gorgeous, intelligent, and very cool) rejected me (friendzone). When we talked about relationships one time the subject of my interest came up, and she said I was just so desperate, which is how she described any guy who basically showed her interest.


That matches my experience. Just by showing interest in one woman chosen from many can cause her to think that guy is desperate. Desperate even though he passed up others in the process.

I've seen the condition where any guy who showed any interest was 'desperate' by default as well. On the other hand, it often seemed to have a hell of a lot to do with the woman's interest in the guy. Two guys can do the exact same thing the exact same way and one would be 'desperate' while the other would be 'sweet'.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 53 (view)
 
why do most men push so hard ? LOL
Posted: 4/4/2009 10:22:11 PM

i was always taught that the man is the hunter and therefore should pursue a woman he is interested in. if you think women are supposed to chase you, then you will be single forever.
and
in my experience, if a woman chases a man, she is seen as desperate and needy and no man wants someone like that.


An unwanted pursuit by a man is seen as desperate as well. And that's the rub. Somewhere along the line an unwanted pursuit/attention by a man became socially unacceptable. Some guys can put this aside and don't care while others try to do behave in a socially acceptable manner and it results in a nasty chicken-and-egg problem. A woman chasing isn't needed, what is needed is a clear sign that the pursuit is wanted or at least acceptable. better yet a meeting that doesn't require pursuit by either party. (BTW Mixed signals are very very bad.)
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 51 (view)
 
why do most men push so hard ? LOL
Posted: 4/4/2009 4:49:08 PM

Are you using big words to confuse me? lol
No, that's the way I describe things given my education and profession over the last 20 years. It means that men are more alike more or less in this respect.

I think most average women focus more the connection and personality than looks
IME that gets a LOL. I've known even women of sub-average looks to be extremely demanding.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 48 (view)
 
why do most men push so hard ? LOL
Posted: 4/3/2009 1:37:54 PM

can you elaborate on those a little so I know what you mean?


Far more uniform: A smaller standard deviation from the mean. The bell curve is narrower and taller.
much less exacting: This should be biologically obvious.
social penalties: At the extreme a woman can actually slap/hit a guy and get away with it if she objects to his 'come-on'. :) More seriously it's very unusual for a guy to complain about women hitting on him. The reverse is rather common.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 35 (view)
 
why do most men push so hard ? LOL
Posted: 4/2/2009 3:31:50 PM

This is funny because it's the same for women


Not really. Men are far more uniform, much less exacting in what they'll accept, and generally the social penalties if any for a woman guessing 'wrong' are much less.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 33 (view)
 
Eharmony - Knowing What You Are Buying ?
Posted: 4/1/2009 8:14:57 PM
I tried the EH free weekend twice... First time 'there are no matches for you'. Ok, whatever. It's only the greater chicago area. Maybe I am that weird. A few days later it comes up with 'matches', exactly what I said were my 'deal breakers'. Yeah, great computer system ya got there :) Delete profile. A couple years later I try again, figured they had to change to stay in business... get matches... jump through hoops of different 'stages'. No pictures. Get to the point of pictures... $50 a month please.... frack that. Delete profile.

I've have never paid for any pay site. Each and everyone has something that sets off my scam-sense. Plus why do pay sites have about 1000 times the spam as the free ones? Not just the fake messages to get a guy to pay but stuff from outside websites. Other dating sites, russian mail-order brides, and so on. POF and are spam-free by comparison.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 363 (view)
 
for the ladies....can you TRULY say money ain't a factor?
Posted: 4/1/2009 7:54:31 PM
The problem IMO is how 'wealth' is judged in this society. By and large it is judged on the consumer goods a person has. The amount of consumer goods a person has, for the the last decade plus, has been determined by his debt tolerance. A guy can look like he can support a certain lifestyle only for it to be entirely on credit.

Then again, so many women willingly and knowingly date deadbeats and leaches.....


PS: Now that the bust has finally arrived I thought it would be a time that those of us who were financially prudent could benefit. Instead we're gonna get the bill! I should have bought (leased?) the fancy cars and the no-money-down mcmansion! :) Could have gone from being desirable for my money to one of those exciting living on the edge deadbeats ;)
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 30 (view)
 
why do most men push so hard ? LOL
Posted: 4/1/2009 7:38:53 PM
Korky The Kounselor's msg #23 is spot on.

Trying to guess the exact right level of contact, level of pursuit with each and every woman is impossibly difficult. I don't try any longer. What's too much? What's too little? It's different with every woman and differs with every woman for every guy. There is no widely agreed upon social standard of acceptability. Many men try to be socially acceptable and try not to offend while other guys just push really hard and don't care about being socially acceptable. I think the later works better if a guy can avoid prison for stalking ;)

What's really funny is that sometimes a woman will want to meet up on fairly short notice or expect immediate replies and I won't have checked my email or phone messages compulsively and missed it so I'm not trying hard enough, but if I check my email compulsively, reply right away, and am available on short notice it means I'm desperate ;) I just find it amusing now. It used to be frustrating, but what's the point? nothing I can do about it.
 xeotide
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 431 (view)
 
I was told I am a bad mother because I smoke marijuana.
Posted: 4/1/2009 6:19:42 PM

doing drugs is illegal and as a role model do not be surprised if she has some confusion about obeying rules


Only if the government is a parent and an adult is its child for that is the only applicability of such a 'rule' dictating what a person can or cannot consume.
 
Show ALL Forums