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 Author Thread: Why Don’t Women Ask Men Out ?
 Manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 45 (view)
 
Why Don’t Women Ask Men Out ?
Posted: 12/16/2010 10:38:32 PM
It's my opinion that women conveniently left this part of "progress" out of the equation, post feminist movement. What better way to have their cake and eat it too.

The dating scene is as antiquated as milk in a glass jar, being delivered to your doorstep every day. Why men don't sense the need for change is beyond my comprehension. Women hold 51% of the workforce, and have positions in every level of every field imaginable, with specialized fields monopolized by women. In many cases, women are making more money than the men that are asking them out. It's certainly been the case in my past experience.

I think the dating scene will shift slowly. Considering that females have, in most cases, the final word on who dates who, and they're typically not the pursuers, it might just smack them as the obvious choice one day and they'll start pursuing men. But right now, they have everything arranged in life as they wanted it to be. Why they're willing to settle, for only the ones that pursue them, is amazing to me.

I perceive that it's based more on the financial aspect, rather than the compatability aspect right now. And that men and women are hard wired in such a fashion. But even something as simple as making eye contact in public or sending the first email, seems foreign to most women. It's as if they're working in reverse.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 43 (view)
 
Leaving The Bathroom Door Open
Posted: 12/11/2010 7:29:04 PM
I actually think it's cute to watch a girl peeing on the toilet. Do I want to netertain her taking a dump? Probably not....but...

I think the OP is what's called a "Shy Pee-er". I don't like peeing next to guys, and will avoid that, but it doesn't bother me to be peeing next to a girl. So, to a degree, I think the girl has a point in not being so challenged about being in the same bathroom together. It's what separates that relationship (with the opposite sex) from all others. AND, a lot of master bathrooms are, by design, very open; ie; transparent glass shower walls instead of opaque, toilet rooms with half walls and no doors, etc. Some people simply believe in a much more open bathroom environment. Try going to Europe. There are coed bathroom in public places. Imagine using the potty or washing your hands next to women or men you've never met. But, in some ways, it's a much more freeing environment.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 129 (view)
 
Celebrity Lookalikes
Posted: 4/3/2010 9:35:53 PM
For a while, I got Harry Connick Jr about once a week. So, if I could only croon like he does.....
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 33 (view)
 
Federal Deficit Estimated at Near-Record $407B
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:05:03 PM
Yeah, that's funny.^^^^^

Tell me another one.

After Bush broke the bank, it's going to cost money to get out of this mess. His stimulus plan greased the pockets of elite bankers and wall streeters, thanks to Paulsen, leaving nothing for the average American. SO the banks got their bailout (golden parachute) monies, presumably to free up loan monies, in order to keep America moving.

Well, you see how far that took us.....NOWHERE!!!

Carter left us with 900 Million. When Reagan was done, it had quintupled to 4.3 trillion.

I'd take Obama over McCain, anyday. Imagine where we'd be with McCain's trigger happy fingers, who didn't have a single plan to do anything to restructure the economy.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Some advice on what to do
Posted: 9/17/2009 7:13:55 PM

Dude... I seriously hope I'm wrong... but it sounds as though you are on the outs... meaning, she's looking for a kind way to end things... I could be wrong, and I hope I am... but it DOES seem that way based on what ya posted...

It usually means she may have found someone else, but doesn't want to hurt you...


Not to offend the above poster for quoting his remarks, as this is a general response to what many are saying,.... but I don't think blowing the doors off this lad is really necessary. It sounds like he's got a hold of things fairly well, and is allowing for more space between the two. That's excellent to do.

When two people meet, there's often that time wher you just CAN'T get enough of each other. Yet, after a period of time, the two people begin to separate and draw back into the individuals they once were, and need more time alone or with friends. I'm in the very same place right now. I"m spending more time doing "my" thing, filling "my" cup and my girl is doing the same thing.

I doubt this girl is necessarily on the outs; in fact, she may care enough about it to draw herself apart in order to maintain the relationship in a more healthy perspective.

just my 2.5 cents worth

As for how much space? To use some form of comparison, if I "think" a day is sufficient for me to get over a disagreement, it'll be 3 days for her, maybe longer. Drives me nuts but...women usually need more time to process stuff. I'd say take as long as you feel you need and then add another 50% more time. Maybe even let her come to you when she misses you.

Good Luck
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 21 (view)
 
Rep. Paul Stanley busted for sex with 22 year old intern.
Posted: 8/31/2009 7:42:14 PM
^^^^^^^^^Classic^^^^^^^^
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 20 (view)
 
Rep. Paul Stanley BLESSED for sex with 22 year old intern.
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:57:24 PM
Now if we just had TD, we'd have almost a full house!!



What I meant was that I grow tired of the desperation in posts full of criticism and slander of those they disagree with--to the point of grasping onto whatever crap they see in 6 second soundbites on CNN.


Oh, right; but those righties still banging their drum about Obama not being a US citizen isn't a grasp? Or fighting against healthcare in the US is the wrong thing? We all know it's just a weak-minded attempt to stop a black president from doing the most valuable, most important change to the American way of life. That would be too much of an accomplishment-

(yawns)
just like old times....gotta love it....how nostalgic
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 95 (view)
 
Torture-memo-prosecutions … to prosecute or NOT to prosecute … what would be best?
Posted: 8/27/2009 6:18:03 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this … can we afford to do this right now?


If we could just get them to somehow bring the guilty to justice and prosecute to the fullest.
I think a good place to start would be the "Shrub" and the "C0ck" and their gang of thugs.
Let's get this done.

First, it didn't seem to matter HOW much it would cost to prosecute former President Clinton over the personal matter of a blow job. He lied to Congress, but so would anyone. 1 million bucks a day for over a year- just to prove some fat intern had his stain on her dress. And this did "WHAT" for national security and our nation? And yet some people (present company>Cotter< excluded) want to fight against the idea of prosecuting Shrub and C0ck and his chronies?

I like the idea of getting this done. If they were acting against the Geneva Conventions codes for misconduct, they should be prosecuted and punished.

I doubt they have a cell small enough for these thugs.

I hope some prison bear makes these jerks his personal puppets
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Consider the source.
Posted: 8/27/2009 6:03:17 PM

I'm almost convinced there is no way to resolve this... I vote we just divide the country...lol Liberals on one side, and conservatives on the other... :).


I suggest we find a tank big enough to house every neo-con-republican (those invidious types we all know and (cough)(cough) luuvv....) and give them a time out for all the mess they've created.

I still like Hillary's assessment - of political extinction of the republican party.... and I think this thread is a perfect exaple of why. There's just not a reasonable one left in the bunch.

As an aside, - has ANYone noticed how much of a healthcare expert every republican has become?
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 147 (view)
 
Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 1/2/2009 2:40:31 PM

I mean seriously dont you think the N.S.A.,C.I.A,F.B.I And countless other government agencies have run checks on Obama mccain and biden and palin?

No, I don't think that they have. First of all, there is no evidence of this.

Another toddler needing spoon feeding.
UGH.
IS it any wonder so many republicans are seen in the same brush stroke, that they're so misguided, thanks to bozos like G. Dubya Bush, as to make such ludicrous statements?
Oh sure, we'll just let Charlie Manson run for, and be elected to office, without a shred of evidence vetting him.
It's becoming invidious, and a pathetic waste of energy to even honor their post's with any degree of respect.
Just like Bush, I hope these types can eventually take the cotton out of their ears and stick it in their mouths.
These people n-e-v-e-r seem to learn how idiotic their statements are, but.... here they are....running off at the mouth.
Obama showed his ability to walk the high road, not to lower his standards to his opponents low blows, and yet still, there are those who wish to attempt discrediting his name. FCS, people, get a brain.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 44 (view)
 
Is the secret to making your man happy, showing him your happy?
Posted: 1/2/2009 2:15:46 PM
So I ask you. Is it really that easy? Do women feel happier when they know they are satisfying their man needs? If so, would you say it contributes largely to your own happiness? And last but not least, how often does a person's expectations get in the way of their own happiness?

What've Ive' found for myself is that finding a SO happy makes me happy. Am I , thus, a pleasure seeker, or is my pleasure derived from finding my SO happy? The answer is both. When I see that my doings bring pleasure to someone, I feel satisfied. It brings full circle the act of doing, that we're (I) am here, not only for self-seeking, but to give, as well. Whether it be by a foot massage, a body massage, cooking a delightful dinner, or just keeping up with my everyday task of working, paying bills, and cleaning house, I bring something that isn't designed solely for my own benefit, I bring something to someone else whom I love, and therefore the act of pleasure (for me) comes in many forms. So many people are self-seeking, they only seek what they're going to get out of something they've contributed to, very selfish and self-centered, they seek to take away at least as much as they're willing to give, no more, and if they could seek to find satisfation through helping or pleasing others (SO's, particularly) they would find a level of sustained gratification that far exceeds self-pleasure. Further to this, satsfying my lover,sexually, is every bit as important to me as self-satisfaction. In fact, that (to me) should be the reason I'm wanting to engage in sex with them. Many, many people have sex for sex's sake, FWB's and whatnot, which to me defines the shallowest of motives. Yet, it has a much greater purpose in my book, that sex be exclusive to someone I'm truly wanting to bring pleasure to, and not have to do (or less to do) with my own satisfaction.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 36 (view)
 
John McCain the blame for his campaign failing not Palin
Posted: 12/31/2008 8:21:11 AM
I do not dislike Palin. McCain was wrong using her the way he did.

I agree. She'd have served him much better doing dishes and having 3somes with him and Cindy.
Truthfully, Palin amounted to little more than a painful thorn in his side, in the end; had she run for assistant administrative secretary or some other subordinant position, she very well could have gotten into office.... but the thought of her running for 2nd highest office still gives me shivers. She needed 6 mos of debate boot camp....not 6 days....just to avoid looking the baffoon. Her every word during interviews with Couric, et al....and her every pubic appearance......showed her complete inept abilities to lead in high office. As for her popularity in AK, all I can surmize is....she must have one he!l of a set of (wornout) knee-pads.
With exception to Illinois GO-Blow-AB!tch, she's probably T-H-E m-o-s-t .... inept politician in America and it is with much disdain and embarrassment that she (dis)graced our political landscape. Romney would have made McCains campaign something of a competition, but I think MCCain thought of her as the he!l mary pass to win on... it was all or nothing..... but Palin not only missed seeing the ball, she was running the wrong way.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 177 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/23/2008 8:24:03 AM

I don't think given the direction our country is heading, any amnesty is good thing at this time. In my area, thousands were given pink slips, many auto industry workers are losing their jobs on Dec. 23rd. As I've said before, if everything were A-OK in this country economically, then fine. But it isn't and it's going to get worse.
No, it's obviously not A-OK here in the good ole US of A. We still haven't found a bottom in this downward economic spiral. Quite frankly, if I were here illegally, I'd be making plans to exit stage south....cuz things are going to get worse. We may see at least another 150 days (5 mos) of continued layoffs and business closings, home foreclosures, etc. Bank institutions have taken billions in bailout moneys and yet refuse to disclose where or how the money is being spent. Wall Street is in bed with the higher escelon of government and they're getting whatever they can while the gettin's good.

In a nutshell, there is no accountability in America. (Just look at Maddof)

But write a bad check and see how accountable you will have to be.

Why am I so quickly becoming very disillusioned with my country?

Ready, this may be where our opinions depart. As I see it, illegal immigration didn't start just yesterday, but in the past 8 yrs, things have drastically changed. 8 yrs ago, illegals were here but it's quite possible they've doubled in numbers in that time. After 9/11, it would have seemed ever so apparent that we needed to stem the flow coming across our southern border, not to mention other areas of the pacific northwest. Yet, these issues have all but been ignored. Up until a week or so of the financial meltdown, Bush (and McCain, I might add) continued telling the American people our economy was strong, while Obama had long since warned of catastrophic failure if things continued on the same path. So finally, after a couple million homes had been foreclosed on, and unemployment started rising exponentially, Bush finally admits (a year after anlayst had concluded we were already in a recession) that we were in a recession. For many, who take his word as the nectar of survival, they refused to see our economic woes until he made such statements publicly. It's as if they could not see with their own eyes, that they couldn't think outside the box (brainwashing) long enough to see they were covering things up, until it's much too late. And I think the problem with illegal immigration is parallel to this-that the situation grew much dire before it would ever be recognized publicly. Bush waited to admit the economic failure until it could not be held back any longer, and I feel they already know how pitiful the situation is concerning illegal immigration, but because other issues have now surfaced, it's too easy to ignore the basic facts, that the illegal conundrum is as much a part of our economic woes as the Wall Street money grab is. As you clearly point out, AHnold is beggin for a bailout.... but what if SF & LA were no longer a sanctuary for illegals.... these illegals are clearly a financial burden on that states economy. Yet no ones got the khahunas to admit it. So, in terms of accountability for bailout money, wouldn't you think AHnold should stem the tide by making sure their bailout money goes towards insuring bona-fide Americans will receive the benefits - by clearing out all those with illegal status? That goes for any state who's filing bankruptcy or has a hand out for bailout monies.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 18 (view)
 
Why Impeachment is still important
Posted: 12/22/2008 2:09:43 PM
(Tomic Bomb)there will be nothing of the kind. gwb and cheney will retire in peace and comfort. they did what they had to do in a war with ideologs and B.O. will do many of the same things. this is a war against some wacked out religious fanatic people, not a country and extreme measures are the only ones likely to protect us

How k-i-n-d to point out exactly where our problem lies.

They did not do what they had to do.... they implemented war, falsified documents in order to convince Congress of an imminent threat, and forced a war (occupation) of Iraq, a soverign nation under the UN.
As is clearly stated above, our grievances are against radical islamist (religious fanatic people) , not a Country, per se, and Iraq is a Country. Iraq had no influence, w-h-a-t-s-o-e-v-e-r.... on the 9/11 attacks, nor did they endorse said attacks.
Radical islamist are hiding in over 60 countries worldwide.
WHy is Osama Bin Laden still alive? With all the resources of the CIA, the FBI, INTERPOL, and police services worldwide, we could find a fruitfly on a Bangladesh cafe wall, at 3 am in the morning, .... BUT WE CAN'T FIND BIN LADEN? FCS, people....what-the-fvk-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GW SHrub, The enlightened "high-functioning moron"....ie; Shrub...... in an effort to smoke screen his families ties with the Royal Saudi Family... initiates an occupation in Iraq... a convenient smoke screen and diversion from Osama Bin Laden, namely because Osama Bin Laden is a member of the Saudi Royal Family. The Bush family has long standing ties to the saudi family. In fact, the saudi royal family invested money in Bush's struggling oil company many years prior to his governorship in Tx. This information has been subdued and censored by the Bush administration. In addition, the occupation of Iraq and the downfall/execution of Hussein is payback for Husseins threats on Bush 41, not to mention, the Bush family (oil tycoons) invade an oil rich nation (Iraq) for its oil and natural resources. Cheney's former company, Haliburton, is largely responsible for hte restructuring of cities, power plants, buildings, etc, to which he's entitled to millions of the proceeds. In addition II, the government has always offered contracts to other countries for this restructuring process, yet the Bush administration has kept these contracts from getting bid out, virtually giving them to companies like Haliburton, in exchange for financial kickbacks.

Extreme measures protecting us, huh?
Well, if one finds the backdoor, corrupt policies of this administration to be admirable, they're welcome to just such an edification. Think whatever, do whatever, fill in the blanks as they come. Just don't give a bunch of donkeyshit about how they're not guilty of treason against the American people, or how they're doing it by the book, cuz it just isn't so.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 28 (view)
 
Where is our country headed now, is this really a depression
Posted: 12/18/2008 8:17:01 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Maybe the Saudis can just bail the US out.
Afterall, that's who's been getting the bulk of our money for the past few eons.
A few trillion dollars wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to someone who uses gold toilets.

Even during The Great Depression, some people had work. Unemployment was around 30% and many people struggled just to eat, but not everyone. Somehow, we'll get through this mess.

The US was officially in a recession by 3rd quarter of 2007, yet our "leaders" were either in the dark about this fact, or chose to ignore it, and finally "admitted" openly that we were recessed a year later. My premonitions tell me Obama won't hesitate to disclose our economic standing as this admin has so stealthily done.

Here in the US, we've been run and operated by Big Business for a long time. Obamas call for getting lobbyist (from Big Businesses) out of Washington and out of the political decision-making may be the first step in recovery. Capping executive/CEO/CFO salaries would be another major breakthrough. There's no substancial justification for a few thousand hard working, loyal people to get by on meager salaries or get laid off, while a handful of others live as Kings. We're going to have to redistribute the wealth in America and bailing out the executives in Big Business just exponentially escalates the situation. Hank Paulsen and his Wall Street Tycoons are having a field day today and there may not be much we can do to undo what they're scheming right now, but with a little luck, we'll regain some of our better virtues and turn this ship around.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 57 (view)
 
Remember the Minutemen?
Posted: 12/17/2008 4:29:54 PM
Oh I'm sure companies would rather employ legal citizens, they'd just have to be willing to work at as low of wages as the undocumented ones.

If I may interject here (holding a hand up)
To find some scope of comparision regarding illegal, undocumented workers...

In 1993-1994, I was an apprentice in a construction field. No illegals worked for my company, and for that matter, no foreigners, period. I made $12.50 an hour, and journeymen were making $15-25 p hr. . Everyone was a w.a.s.p or negro-american, except for one jew, who taught me most everything I know in the trade. I was laid off late in 1994. AS a result, my own entity, self-employment, took root. I've never worked for another company since, except one brief stint this summer.

Work had fallen considerably, as a contractor, over the past year. This summer seemed to be the worst time ever to find work. So, I decided to take a job for a granite/marble fabrication outfit. I was offered an entry level position in spite of my having related experience for the past 18 years. Come to find, a new hire was brought in, (latino), who apparently had as much experiece as I. 2 weeks later, I was laid off, namely because Hose A was taking the same job for less. (As an aside, I was making..... get this...... $12.50 an hour..... the S-A-M-E pay I got 14 years )prior.

Now, if this doesn't have some merit as to where we were and where we're at now, I don't know what does. Americans have, will and do work in construction, but social norms have predicated a swift change and the average young adult getting out of high school took/takes aim at other "clean" jobs. American young adults, 30 years ago, were largely getting into trades, before internet jobs came about and before those jobs began getting taken by illegals ..... for much l-e-s-s .. money. American men and women, since, who sought trades positions, were/are being offered lower pay, as a result of the influx of immigrants. Some companies hold onto the same pay scale, but demand legal documentation, but there's no regulation in so many trades and businesses, today, that it would require immense diversification to investigate and take control of the overall work forces.

Ironically though, in 1999, I worked in Chicago's downtawn district, as a contractor, and every person on the jobsite not only needed to have documentation, you were sent home for the day if you didn't have your union card with you....at all times. We don't have union officials checking in on jobsites 2-3 times a week here in Atl, but we should, and we could have this type of incorporation across every state. See, there's a new job creation. Inspections and union officials. Not only would our standards improve dratically, we'd insure our jobs went to bona-fide citizens. Win win.

But the overall picture I see is that our pay scale from 1994 up to 2008 has not only not improved, it's diminished. 18 years experience in a trade and the best job I could find only paid what I made 14 yrs prior. AND....... a foreigner.....latino..... took my job. Now.... Iv'e been here in the US for 46 yrs Hose A has been here 4. I get the door and Hose A gets my job. And yet, people still bemoan how inhumane we're becoming because we're starting to really t-a-l-k... about illegal immigration. It's a very politically incorrect subject to discuss ...but as I see it..... most anything that -I-S politically incorrect to be discussed.....I-S ...-W-H-A-T... N-E-E-D-S... T-O-...B-E.... D-I-S-C-U-S-S-E-D......

Bill Mahrer is my hero.

but the gist of my long rant here is this: {{{"Oh I'm sure companies would rather employ legal citizens, they'd just have to be willing to work at as low of wages as the undocumented ones. "}}}}
Why must it be the American people, or those here of legal means, must "adopt" a new standard of living and work for less money than they could expect over a decade ago, B-E-C-A-U-S-E .. someone , without documentation, is willing to work for a much lower rate? It undermines the high standards that Americans have worked hard to enjoy. And might I add, we had a much higher standard here not but a few decades ago. Trades were supervised through unions, and standards were met or you didn't get paid. Today, with the influx of so much foreign labor, those standards are no where near as high as yesterday, in fact, it's a free-for-all when it comes to some trades. So, our quality index has diminished significantly. How is it that we Americans, the consumers, benefit from lower standards of quality and reduced expected labor rates? Is it any wonder Americans have sought other fields of work? They've been sold out by greed mongers and capitalistic overload.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 159 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 7:40:44 AM

@ Mane...what the typical Betty Buckhead does after losing her job, is to collect unemployment for six months, without REALLY looking for another job. The illegal immigrant probably makes about the same amount of money working some menial job, that Betty collects sitting at home, eating bon bons while watching the soaps.

Obviously, we see things much differently. In fact, I know different.
There are, indeed, people lining up for a service our country offers, unemployment, something these drastic times of rising unemployment call for. Ironically, unemployment is something that probably isn't offered in Mexico, and many countries of latin america.

You know, all this talk about the illegals working and having 'stuff' had me thinking about the 'immigrant mentality' which is to make as much money as you can while you can. I thought to myself, if the illegals are working....there MUST be jobs out there.
Funny. That thought had me thinking what a financial drain it is for the US to have all that money being sent to Mexico and parts south. Furthermore, I still can't get past the "illegal" aspect of "illegal immigrants". Yeah I know, good people, hard workers. WHATEVER. But contrary to what this poster mentions, jobs are dropping like cakes at a bake sale. people are l-o-s-i-n-g ... jobs.... and there are sub-cultures in our society that allow illegals to have access to many jobs that is, thus, preventing many americans from getting hired.

So, if there are jobs out there that the illegals are doing, why would we not take those jobs, and deny them the opportunity to make that money that rightfully belongs to us?
Because we're documented. Until our gov't demands documentation, illegals will have an upper hand at getting jobs under the table, under the tax radar, and undermining Americans across the nation. If Joe American is seeking a painting job, and as an experienced painter, he's expecting $15-20 per hour, Hose A and Hose B are willing to do the job wihtout taxation for the same money. They're undermining his abilities to work, namely because he's got taxes to pay, social security to pay, and insurances to buy. And in case this newflash comes as a surprise, we still live under the same system we always have. There are millions of people looking for work right now and some greedy business-people are accustomed to having work done via illegal immigrants, thus disabling the american people the opportuity to take those jobs. The gov't is going to have to intervene and fine or imprison employers who hire illegals, thus freeing up the job market that ilegals have cornered. This, ironically, would solve much of our present financial woes for many out of work and displaced Americans.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 151 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 9:31:00 PM

(angelsands) Shouldn't it be better and faster if WE STOP COSUMING THE PRODUCTS THEY "PRODUCE"..?? What about if we stop buying the vegetables we buy at the grocery store...?? and the meats..?? furniture..??.. Ohhh.. wait.. NOT TO BUY THE HOUSES THEY BUILT..?? What about if WE don't hire companies that CUT our grass and maintain our HOUSES... (YEAH MR CHERTOFF..)?? What about if We don't wear the APPAREL they make... ?? What about if we don't eat the FOOD at the restaurants where they work at..?? And to take our vehicles to the shops where they work at.
Actually, we should arrest and detain and take to trial all of those people who hire the illegals; this includes big businesses, processing plants, the general contractors building the homes, as well as the sub-contractors who allow illegals to work, and on down the line. First and foremost, it's a legal matter, and allowing them to work is unethical, as well as the fact that it's undermining other legal residents and bona-fide Americans who are now struggling to make ends meet. The other issue is that, at least in the construction field, there is an abundance of very non-professional people doing work they're not qualified to do. Spreading pine straw and planting shrubs is one thing....Iv'e even seen some really good brick work, but I've seen some atrocious results in tile and marble. I've also seen hideous plumbing from some derelict types who just happen to be from south of the border. And that is basically systemic from the building codes in America vs those in, say, Mexico.
I think if Betty Buckhead loses her job at, oh, say Bellsouth, At&T, or any number of businesses that are going down quickly, she's going to need work, and she probably won't care what it is so long as she's able to feed her kids. So, the idea that she wont' eat at a restaurant that employees illegals is just a bit short of the mark. She'll be demanding to have a job in place of one of those who's undocumented. People are just N-O-T going to stand by and allow "illegals" to work while those who've paid into the infrastructure for generations upon generations- stand by and do without.


Here is the perfect solution...

Trying to abstain from buying products that illegals handle or produce in some fashion is clearly not going to do anything but run the business further into the ground, financially. What good would that do someone who's looking for work? No, the "I'm legal and documented, and he/she is not, and I'm demanding I get hired" approach is much more convincing. When employers see an angry person with documentation staring them in the face, threatening to report the illegal employee(s), there will be a change. Pretty soon, we'll begin to see the laws enforced....from fruit harvesting, to landscaping, to construction.
No doubt, Americans have more or less "accepted" the illegals because they really didnt' care who did that work. But today is different. And quite frankly, all the spoiled little American kids are just going to have to accept that if they want to earn a living, they may just have to get their hands dirty, sweat a little, and learn the basics of life from the ground up. No problem. The change will do them some good, not to mention, they'll learn something new. They'll learn to cook for themselves or they'll learn a skilled trade- whatever the skill they receive will be well earned. Todays young people typically couldn't operate a power tool without hurting themselves, they dont' know what it's like working in a hot kitchen on your feet for 7-8 hours at a time..... but it's coming. The dwindling economy is going to have some natural repurcussions over time, and American kids are going to have to branch into different fields of blue collar work. But it's ok. It'll be good for them. They'll learn a w-h-o-l-e... new appreciation for the art of making a living.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 141 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/14/2008 10:20:15 PM

Get a clue folks!
How much do you think it will cost to locate, detain and deport the illegals?
HELLO, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Cry and moan all you want, you're pissin' in the wind. You might just as well learn to live with them, they aren't going anywhere!

- - - - - - - N e w s F l a s h - - - - - - -

As long as there is money to be made by greedy corporations who profit off the backs of illegals there will be a constant influx.

Pre-financial meltdown, those were probably very true statements. However (coma) do you really think people, American people, will stand by idly, homeless, living in a tent, scrapping to feed their kids, while illegal immigrants go out and make money?
These are drastic times, which require drastic measures. I sense that there will be an administrative enforcement of required documents or hefty fines. Deportation would run 20 billion, so from a financial aspect, the cost of deportation would be very cost-effective, considering it cost tax payers in the neighborhood of 300 billion annually for them to be here.

Pissing in the wind, I doubt. Had we not fallen off the Dow Jones radar for weeks on end, maybe that would be true, but suspicions tell me we're in much dire times than we're being told. (sorry, I find that laughable) Truth is, if people "had" the knowledge that, for instance, much more crushing economic tragedies would soon unfold, they'd stop shopping, they'd start saving. But Americans tend to be obsessive about their consuming. Not only do they live on the very edge of making ends meet, they want to borrow m-o-r-e.. money to buy things. But im getting off topic.

These hard financial times are going to force changes in other areas....and I venture to say...if enough people stand up and make a scene about illegals gainfully employed, while Americans get bank rolled and homeless, we'll see change coming with a quickness.

Just my 2.3 cents worth
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 17 (view)
 
Where is our country headed now, is this really a depression
Posted: 12/14/2008 9:33:41 PM

DO NOT BUY GIFT CARDS!

When the retailer goes bankrupt all you've got is a worthless piece of plastic.

Precisely.
I just read and heard that several chains of mall stores were planning drastic cutbacks come January, including massive closings nationwide. So word to the wise on the gift cards. Better make sure they'll be open after the first of the year. FI, Ann Taylor, Abercrombie/Fitch, Hollister....
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 14 (view)
 
Where is our country headed now, is this really a depression
Posted: 12/14/2008 11:47:56 AM
If you remember when we were headed for a recession Bush said our economy was in good shape. When we were in a recession we heard that we were only headed for a recession. Now, they are saying we are in a recession. Does that really mean we are headed for or in a depression?

One word. Censorship.
The administration stiffled, subdued, and censored information regarding our impending economic crisis. They wanted to continue the brainwashing. They've lied and disinformed people for 8 long years. They've deregulated everything.
Interestingly, financial experts have said we've been in recession since 3rd quarter 2007. So, if we're (speaking in general terms) misinformed, according to information from the present admin, I imagine we'll "discover" some time later that we've "been" in a depression. Facts usually come around after the fact. Unemployment statistics take time to be recorded, financial stats are also based on pre-quarter records....so...we don't find out what position we're in until long after the fact. 2.2 milion more homes are due to fall into foreclosure this last quarter of 2008. But, if the present admin is only "now" coming around and "stating openly" that we're in recession, I suspect it's more grave than "they" are willing to own up to. As long as they refuse to come clean on the actual state of affairs, their public opinions dont' go down. They're already on the side of abject failure,..... giving the public still more information wouldn't help their opinion ratings.

You dont' expect Bush, Cheney or any of his other posey to admit failure, do you?

I think as long as people are getting their nails done in salons, we aren't close to a depression yet.

But I could be wrong.

People will still go out to dinner and do other things that are low on the cost spectrum, during a depression. Restaurants, amazingly, survive such poor economic times because the cost is miniscule compared to restoring their homes, buying cars, or other bigger ticket items. IOW's, people still want to feel human, and to escape the misery of life for a moment. Getting nails done is fairly low cost, and wouldn't necesarily go under the umbrella of what people will stop doing.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 259 (view)
 
People who think you are hot V2.
Posted: 12/13/2008 11:56:19 PM

I think women feel the same echo. Its a difficult endeavor to try to meet a man that one is interested in on this site, much like other sites. I think that many women feel many men are missing out on wonderful women that just may not look like a penthouse or playgirl pin up but are wonderful women with remarkable qualities. And not all women are looking for the $$ out of a man or a Brad Pitt. Too many generalizations by the sexes on the sexes really mess up any opportunity to make a real connection! Dont' you think??

Well, see, Red, I'd love having a sexy young lady like you in my "hot collumn"....lol,,, but...you're waaayyyyy up in Canada.
Honestly, though, Red, it's true (is it not) that women get about 20 times as many emails as men? I get "maybe" 1 email a month...from a stranger....while women generally get 10-20 a day? So, while women may echo the same sentiment, they do so with an incredibly greater advantage to meeting a guy. They're just turning away 20 times more men than the men are turning away women.
Lot's of people are remarkable, wonderful people, men- women...but it takes something significant to find attraction. And I found it amusing that smoking/non-smoking wasn't part of the filtering process....especially since the number one reason I don't have any success is....becuz I choose to smoke. Interestingly, another poster made the same comment...and that several in his pool of choices did smoke...but they couldn't "contact" him... based on his non-smoking preference filter.
SO, Why can't this filtration system check all features? What about the personality feature? Was it included also? (Esfj, ISfp, etc)
I thikn the idea is grand....but the matching system just needs tweaking.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 11 (view)
 
Why Impeachment is still important
Posted: 12/13/2008 10:57:09 PM
Impeaching Bush is just going to cost taxpayer money that we don't have
WE spend ten billion a month in Iraq.
500 million dollars would suffice to put all these MF's where they belong... and strip them of their executive priviledges.
Funny. It wasnt' long ago this Country spent 1 million a day impeaching Clinton over private matters that had nothing to do with national security and financial ruin.
I know. He lied. About what? A blowjob, right? Isn't that miniscule when compared to Kucinich's 35 articles of indictment ? Is there even a comparison to make?
I'll answer: No.

I thought the only way a president could be "charged" was to impeach them? Unless we are talking about taking GW to the world court for war crimes?

I say impeach them for their lies and disinformation and g-r-e-e-d... in the Iraqi "occupation". T-H-E-N.... hang their azzes in a world tribunal for war crimes.
I don't care if they have 3 days left.... they need to go to trial.... and if they're innocent, or rather, found not guilty, then we did our part. But to let these jerkoffs walk is a crime against the American people.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 136 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 10:44:11 PM
Sorot

does anyone here have a knowledge (Except Mane bcs mane is a BSer he just thinks everyone who comes here

I've let this go for a while....but... it needs to be said.
Even though I know you're just joking.... I've been temporarily banned twice already for posting with direct message to a poster. So.....For your sake and mine.... let's keep the topic generalized and without specific derrogatory remarks about individuals, and keep the topic of discussion...."on topic".
Just a word to the wise.


Brandie46
AS a few people here have mentioned, it's probably true that some countries laws are more relaxed than we are here in the US, "now". I have traveled in years past with only picture ID and birth certificate, but that's changed post 9.1.01. You can't travel to Canada without a passport....and regardless of what country allows entry without a passport, you can't get back into the US without a passport. That law changed 2 years ago. However, most countries through Europe require passports today. I've not been but my children went through Europe last spring with an uncle and needed their passports at any border crossing or major installation. The point I was trying to make, though, is that setting up residence, taking work, and becoming an integral part of any countries culture requires preparations, and generally a work visa. This requirement has been ignored here for many years now. It used to be enforced. IDK.... maybe everyone in Washington is on Crack now?
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 252 (view)
 
People who think you are hot V2.
Posted: 12/13/2008 1:37:01 PM
where thefu......$#%^*(W%#$ are they!!none of the women on this site are to afraid to date asensitive real man like me they all want to kiss a frog and think he is going to turn into amillionaire well babes i got news for you all i am a down to earth blue collar man who broke and fought his ass off for what i have and if none o f you f#@@^&^$#@n primadonnas want to go with the real thing agentleman who can out last most guys3tines while im still working on my 1st90mins. later the hell with you all ill just go shopping or thedamn laundry mat WHO THEFU#$#%$r&*()_&%$%K NEEDSYOUps sorry to dissapoint youall but i dont have adiamond studded d..k or gold plated b...ls soWAKE UP GIRLS IAM THE REAL THING YOUR ALL LIVING INASTUPID DREAM ciao se lavee' longnlean nproud!!!!

While this (^^^^) may be a tad rough around the edges (c-o-u-g-h), I think this poster speaks for many men. The underlieing frustration I get the sensation of is probably echoed on POF, or other sites. It's a formidable endeavor trying to meet a woman on this site, like most other sites. Unless the female is wholely, without question-less desireable than the man... there's no connection. I could say to the women, "hey, you are all missing good opportunities with some of the men here"....but it would only fall on deaf ears.
A more appropriate site name might be "Jags' & Cougars"..... as every s-i-n-g-l-e... woman on my "hot list" (haha) are older than me, not to mention, lethargic and sedentary, by comparison. IOW's, I could not possibly visualize any one of them going rock climbing, hiking (rigorous), biking or engaging in any of the unlimited number of physical activities that I enjoy. I'd like to think that the idea of matchmaking is quite admirable...but I'm failing to see how that plays out here.
Women get 200+ times the number of emails that men do..... why is that?
J-u-s-t B-E-C-A-U-S-E..... that's why.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 127 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 12:36:59 PM

I am just curious, when were the good economic times when no one cared about illegal immigration?

pre 9.1.01..... essentially, during Clintons term. I had more work than I could handle, then, but right as he was leaving office, pre-election 2000, things began dwindling and I could see more and more "foreigners" getting work. To this day, I see more "foreigners" taking off from supply houses with truckloads of materials, while I'm piddling around doing repair jobs and such.

I'm thinking that it's not that people don't mind if they stick around, but unfortunately, other than doing what Hitler did (everyone must carry their papers identifying themselves at all times)
With all due respect, riddle me this: In what other Country, (besides some depraved region of Africa), can people just walk in, walk around, take up jobs, buy homes,/property/cars, start businesses, and live among the people, W-I-T-H-O-U-T... documentation......? I don't think it happens in Europe, Australia .... you can't even do that in Mexico... FCS. So, a comparison to Hitler is really an extremist POV. We're not suggesting gasing them out, filling up concentration camps, or executing them, even though some have offered such inhumane, whimsickle ideas. ( I actually think friendleebear had a most impressive, well thought out concept with his moat/alligator/dirt solution)
If the gov't demanded documentation, and leveled fines against each offense, be it a homeowner or a business, let's say.....$1000 per offense..... then people would R-E-A-D-I-L-Y... make the effort to insure the people who do work for them- were documented. It's not a Hitler mentality.....it's a universal given.....we/I can't go to Britain, Finland, Switzerland....or even Russia, middle east, A-N-Y-W-H-E-R-E... without a passport or perhaps a work VISA. IF I tried to I'd be arrested, and if I were lucky....I'd get deported, versus a lengthy jail term. You can't go to another Country without a VISA or a passport..... period....end of story. If you're found there without documentation, you're detained or deported.
And on that note, "foreigners" don't create such an influx in other Countries. I mean, we're not hearing about similar episodes in other Countries.... b-e-c-a-u-s-e.... those countries don't allow it. How simple is that.
No one can stop a "foreigner" from buying property or staying in a hotel here. People are free, in that sense, to walk around without reprieve. That's tourism, just as if I went to some other Country to "visit". Yet that's not what we have here.... we have a migration of 20-30 m-i-l-l-i-o-n people ...... who are taking jobs, using our governmental services, and living off of our good graces... yet the levy can only hold so much water... until it breaks. California is the biggest, most critical indicator...but many other states have similar situations.
Hospitals are closing, cities are already in bankruptcy.... and yet, a majority of folks turn a blind eye to a major source of depletion in the economy.....it's like someone else said earlier.... A main financial artery/vein has been severed in this Country and the remedies thus far have been superficial bandaids. The problem is being ignored because wall street big dogs and car manufacturing companies are needing their "fix". The present administration is still doing their part to give more to the uber-wealthy.... and simultaneously killing the middle class. It's a silent attempt at creating a 2 class society....the "haves" and the "have-nots".
Meanwhile, people of the middle class are gathering in tent cities across the nation as they lose homes, cars, jobs, et al. Just how much farther in recession can we go until we come to a realization of this major cataclysmic failure in our society? And if every person here in America was required to carry documentation... in order to "work"..... we'd have more jobs available for people in tents.....who just want to feed themselves, their kids...and start a new beginning. M-AK-I-N-G money here....should be reserved for people who make residence here.... not some illegal who's selfish desire is counterproductive to our society.

What a concept.
Burr, it's cold.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 121 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/13/2008 7:46:46 AM

Yes there is an inability to understand Mane from your side due the same Tequila which is playing demons with you all the time that ------ one thing is providing a job to someone, another thing is selling a product. It's different ok?
if the "illegal" is coming with 2,000,000 and opens a manufacturing plant and PROVIDES jobs as opposed to when he goes and OCCUPIES a job.

^^^^^^^^
First, I don't drink alcohol.
Second, no, there is no difference, and the insistance that there is a difference makes all the more juicy debate.
Just keep digging that hole deeper,...mmmkay.
Maybe for s-o-m-e-o-n-e ..... it makes no difference....
but to many red blooded Americans, they don't care if the illegal is here opening a manufacturing plant or just pulling weeds for Granny Smith..... the fact that they have no documentation violates Americans rights and the gov't has thusfar ignored the problem. They didnt' come as tourist, paying their hard-earned money in casinos, restuarants, hottels, and shopping malls. When the economy was flowing, few cared that they were here..... including me.... but now that we have hard times...... when push comes to shove..... we're going to start shoving.

Rome wasn't built in a year, little by little we are getting there.

If this poster would stop waving the mexican flag ..... the facts might not be so apparent.
Rome wasn't built in a day, you're right.....but in Rome.... the workers were "forced" - "enslaved" ....to work for the King....but they were legal residents.... not illegals sneaking in.
See, that's one thing- I've truly begun to lose admiration for those here illegally.... but who are boastful about their enterprises and below the table dealings.
There's nothing admirable about being a thief, a murderer, or a cheat..... and illegals are cheating the system.... just as the people who will employ them are cheats....
MY best employee is a Panamanian.... and he's here "LEGALLY". He owns a house....does fine workmanship....is incredibly trustworthy and loyal....and I'd take a dozen more like him....but... they're so few in numbers.... I wouldn't hire someone without documentation...because that's a cheat.....and those who would employ someone without documentation....is a cheat.....
We're about to see a cataclysmic eruption in The US.....when enough people get sick and tired of witnessing this debauchery.

FEEL ME????

remember: borrowed time....eventually catches up to a person.........and anyone here illegally.....or who's hiring illegals....is on borrowed time.
I think thats about all I've got on this subject.....at least with regard to this poster....so unless something substancial is presented.... I doubt I'll be posting again.

 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 119 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 11:27:22 PM
it's like you are saying someone AKA Sorot wants those who work without documents

^^^^^^^^^
YA think?
brililililliant observation, Captain Obvious

Like I said, if someones tired of being called a horse, it's time to get rid of the saddle.
Just bcs it's not written.....does not mean it's not implied, at the deepest level.

Geez, I need a nap.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 117 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:26:04 PM

America let's first solve its own problem then solve the others.

To begin, America's numero uno problemo IS illegal immigration.
Thanks for sharing.

Let's bring an example. do you think people in general will report if they see a poor Mexican guy painting someone else's house? No. Yes, legally he should be deported, but bcs the law is not good they don't like reporting it.
AS has been stated here before, Americans have become apathetic about illegals being here, at least in some part. So, while your point is duly noted, in case you missed the memo, times are drastically taking on new landscape in America, economically speaking, of course.



it is very economical to keep these motiviated dudes, allow them to have some sort of legal status for only to work and pay taxes and fees for that so that they don't get paid cash. May be even make a regualation and clearly define the fields where they can employed. Like it is completely legal to employ a worker whom you prove against Immigration office that due to their knowledge of some languages, and them being indispensible in some area you can't find a substitution amond USA citizens or permanent residents.

....and....
k
now for sure that not only me but many other similar companies will benefit tremendously if hamble, hard working Mexican guys who don't have work authorization may be allowed to work legally temporarily or other terms

Av lot of other similar companies would benefit......like you.....if 'humble' hard working mexican guys would be allowed to stay and work here without documentation.

legal residents or natural born citizens would have far greater abilities to survive a catastrophic financial time

==============================
Cheap undocumented labor creates competition and for those who are losing their jobs and are legal in this country it is another obstacle. But, not the biggest obstacle.

Cheap undocumented labor creates deep chasms in our infrastructure . Let's not kid ourselves again. There's competition..... among like-skilled people, and then there's illegal immigration....don't confuse the two.

///////Again, one thing is EMPLOYING those who DO NOT HAVE WORK AUTHORIZATION//////////////
///////////Another thing is SELLING SERVICES OR GOODS to those who don't have a work authorization. ///////////////

I do find it laughable to suggest theres some form of differentiation between hiring illegals.....or being legal, and contracting work under legal status....but putting illegal workers in place to do the work. It seems there's an immeasureable inability to understand......WE ALREADY KNOW HOW ILLEGALS GAIN WORK......
please....I'm laughing so hard my side is hurting. You can't possibly think the casual reader doesn't already understand how illegal workers find work. It's because someone (drumming fingers on keyboard)................S-O-M-E-O-N-E........ who might have legal status.... is giving illegals the work they've contracted. And I beg to differ that theres any discernable difference between working illegally as an individual, or paying illegals to do the work.
...but thanks for sharing. Keep coming back.

prostitution (like you Mane can's say you are selling your asssss , it's illegal
Easy big boy...... just cuz you dig that kinda thing.....don't push the idea on me.....

And plz stop your nonsense comments about me as if I am employing illegals
Everything I've copy/pasted here in this post certainly i-n-d-i-c-a-t-e-s......it certainly lends itself.......to the idea..... that s-o-m-e-o-n-e.... is just itching to have illegals provided sanctuary and the ability to work here without d-o-c-u-m-e-n-t-a-t-i-o-n. So, if s-o-m-e-o-n-e ...doesn't like the i-n-s-i-n-u-a-t-i-o-n-s... perhaps they ought to try removing themselves from the other side of the fence. IOW's, it may not be stated.....in black and white.....but.....it sure s-o-u-n-d-s.... like that's the idea. In other words, if someones tired of being called a horses aZZ, maybe they ought to stop wearing that saddle.~~~~~~~~ IF 'people' would stop whining how we should let illegals work here without documentation, maybe they'd stop giving others the impression they're the ones hiring illegals. There's really only two sides of the fence here... so man up and accept the fact.

Friendleebear.....
Not me. I concentrate on solutions for the problems.. It's a win-win situation.
+ Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border.
+ Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levies.
+ Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.
Any other problems you would like me to solve today ?

What a classic solution. That is too fvckin funny, dood!!!!!!!!
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 109 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:42:22 AM
Real quick......





I own my own business. So, say if I want to fumigate someone's house, and you are telling it is not OK to do that since that person doesn't have immigration papers, then are you going to pay me for the money I am losing? Let's say I will make $1,000 on that job, but your group doesn't let me do it, OK then guys, I won't do it as long as you want to pay YOURSELF for the service I am ready to provide. If you want me to be engaged in immigration affairs, I am sorry but I am not only not competent in that but also have no interest in doing it whatsoever.

This is the delusional aspect that is so far reaching, it's become commonplace.
If.... E-V-E-R-Y..... employer was required to use eVerify and show legal status for ...A-L-L... of their employees, legal residents or natural born citizens would have far greater abilities to survive a catastrophic financial time, such as the one we're in now. So, if what the poster above is stating, is that he/she would not do the job because he's losing money? B-I-N-G-O.......You're categorically illustrating the very person we're trying to extradite. If this person is here in America, legal or otherwise, and they're using "illegal" foreigners, at cut rate salaries, and making money, at the expense of other companies who demand hiring "legal" employees, THAT COMPANY, ENTITY, OR INDIVIDUAL.... is the one who needs to be shown the exit, to be fined for hiring illegals, and to be fined or imprisoned, or both, for using illegal helpers/employees, rather than bona-fide Americans, whether they be natural born or legal residents. Even for a legal resident from some other Country, they're attempting to stay here and work, and even their livelihoods are being challenged because people like the poster in question are hiring "illegal", cheap labor, thus usurping those here legally who are seeking the same jobs. Trying to backdoor the system of checks and balances in this Country is the crux of our most dire issues.




then are you going to pay me for the money I am losing?

No ones losing a dime that would "nornally" be gained through a "legal" process. THIS POSTER IS admitting (hypothetically, of course haha) to hiring people without documentation, thus implanting their own definition of the legal premise this Country works under. If the gist of the comments are that this person wouldn't do the job, if he can't use illegal labor, and if he/she refuses to hire documented workers, fine by me; I think a LOT of other companies/contractors would say "good riddens". Hire legal, documented people or you won't get the work. It's that simple, and it's that principle that is being so abused in this Country today.

AND, quite frankly, during these challenging economic times, it's those "illegals" being hired, by these same ilks of people , who are "surviving" these tough times much better than someone who's "legal".
Someone who must show income, rather than take cash payments under the table, is much harder pressed to find work than an illegal willing to work for much less, but without documentation.
And the only people who make that opportunity possible for the illegal person is someone willing (and admitting) to hiring illegals for the sake of monetary gain. It's preposterous, it's arrogant, it's selfish greed, and it's killing the opportunities for legal residents and natural born citizens across the Country. There's no argument that the "illegal" employees are doing a better job, it's simply a matter of making m-o-r-e money because they're hiring someone who's willing to work for much less, yet do so without the gov't knowing. THIS is the ground zero of the illegal immigration issue, and it's core to so much of the financial crisis we're witnessing today.

So, thanks for bringing that to light.

With that, I'll pass.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 107 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/11/2008 10:55:21 PM
We have all these people in here complaining about how these people live ... many in one house ... and saving tons of "high-paid" wages.

Not always.
There are those who commune 10 to a house or apartment, but there are also many, many families, with children. Now, they may, and often do, have 3 generations all in one house, but they're not as indigent as it might appear. I happen to live in an area that they're fairly prominent, (like many places, this cities been overrun) and the vast majority of the "foreigners" near here DO drive more expensive vehicles than I do, and mines less than 7 yrs old. But we should not kid ourselves. Whether they're 10 to a house, making $10 hr, or they're a family unit with duel incomes, the fact remains, they're in "most" cases, illegal.

AS by some deep distinct, WE MUST ..... see that, whatever level they live on, their numbers are inescapably large (around 20-30 million). We must "witness"......... somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 walking across our border (or through tunnels) "illegally". ...D-A-I-L-Y........(they left their passports at home, apparently) . We already have figures that determine what cost there is to Americans; education, medical/fire/police, welfare, et al. We already have hospital closings due to the overwhelming numbers. Cities across the Nation are on the brink of, or already in, bankruptcy. California has two major sanctuary cities, San Fran and LA, some of the highest concentrations of illegals anywhere. And isn't it ironic that California is asking for major bailout/bankruptcy monies from the government. SO, it's pretty simple connecting the dots. I don't need to get clubbed over the head to get it. Their cost to Americans, via governmental support, is crushing US.

IF the 2 of the 3 US auto manufacturers go under, we're looking at over 1.3 million people going on unemployment, namely, because the vast majority of lesser paying jobs will already be taken through illegal workers. It's a ghost town if you're looking for a job, and we're about to add over a million more people to the victims list. Meanwhile, people .s-t-i-l-l-. bemoan how we're all a bunch of arrogant snooty people who wouldn't do their jobs.


Whether or not they are driving the expensive vehicles ... I highly doubt it. The vehicles cost money and are quickly repossessed if payments are not made.

I dont' know about there, but as I said, here, they are. In one driveway I can count $100K among 4-5 different vehicles, I kid you not.


They are also huge gas-guzzlers ... that costs mega bucks as well. That means less money to send back to Mexico ... right? Nah ... you're not seeing the "illegal" workers driving the expensive SUV's.

Gas guzzlers are the "style". IOW's, "you livin` in high cotton if you got one of those SUV's ridin~ sum dubs. " It's actually quite arrogant, really, and has been said, they're right proud of their illegal enterprises, as well as how handily they make themselves marketable.




VVVVVVVV
The point is still being missed, apparently.

Also, Ready4some etc, is talking that they are buying nicer cars etc etc. Let me tell you one thing for sure, it is probably a sign of a showoff and low class when people spend all their money on expensive cars instead of having long term goals. I have that in my own community in SoCal. In many cities in Mexico they will starve to death but buy expensive cloths, or like here , four of them live in one bedroom apartment but drive a brand new Mercedes, it's just childish, nothing else. Also, if they can afford and like that, then why do you feel bad about it? It's their money they can spend the way they want.

The money they're spending is being acquired illegally.
Would one have me to believe that there isn't some "legal" resident, s-o-m-e-w-h-e-r-e..... who wouldn't want that persons job? Pfft.
Let's not kid ourselves here.
With people losing their jobs on all sides of the spectrum, there will be many who will be wanting work, - w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r-.... work they can find..... and for many, being an auto mechanic isn't all too much more glamorous than a painting job..... so I dont' buy that people wouldn't want their jobs..... should the laws become enforced on immigration and working in the US.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 94 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/10/2008 10:14:10 PM
Musicianfriend, msg 92?
Classic Post. Everything you said was on target.
It SHOULDN"T cost us anything.
We H-A-V-E become very apathetic in America.

WE S-H-O-U-L-D enforce the law....






And also...some states or cities or counties have made their own laws....
It's beginning to look like this issue is going to fall on the shoulders of each indivudual state, at least for now. There are a few cities here in GA that have acted. One Judge took his Court (the clerk, baliff, et al) down to a trailer park that was almost fully inhabited by ......oh let's just say "foreigners". They set up shop right there and then.....they went around checking ID's. IF the "foreigners" didn't have proper documentation, they were sent to immigration. They bussed them off to wherever they were destined to be, at 11:30 at night. . See, a lot of 'people' in America are living on borrowed time. They know they're here "illegally", but they do so anyway. So, when the chariots come round, everybody scrambles away, til the next time. But sooner or later, time catches up with you.



Hiring and renting to illegals should have a price to pay.

If the coming administration does nothing, the states will have to, because too much blood has already dripped from this turnip. WE simply cannot afford to continue in the same vein.



If we just start drying up the jobs....they will go home...

Promise?





These folks have lied, cheated, stole all their lives just to survive...they dont instantly change as soon as they cross a border.

AAAAA-MEN.


I just hope that when they start up construction again that they will hire their own countrymen instead...We as a people should be ready this time to stop the hiring of the illegals...Its just not fair to our own people...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B-I-N-G-O~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There's already sources, such as EVerify, that cross check documentation. The problem is making it enforceable. That may come, eventually, but it may wind up being too little too late. Interestingly, a lot of people who speak out on illegal immigration are called bigots, "racially minded", etc. and ad nauseum. But it's really NOT....about race, or national origin. It's about legality and protection of Americans livelihoods. My best guy is Panamanian. He's legal, goes to school at night to learn and improve his ENGLISH<<< ....he owns a home, LEGALLY......and he's here for the long haul. He's not illegally squating with a dozen others for as long as he can get away with it, sending his money out of the Country, expecting to go back in a few years to live like a king. See, there's a huge difference, and I'd take a dozen like him if I could find them.



There have been many complaints about the quality of the building that was built by these illegals...They illegals said he knew how to do the job...but he lied...(Imagine that..he lied) and they have had nothing but problems with those homes..The victims are the homeowners who are now stuck with 3rd. rate work...Bad stucco...keeps cracking...many many other problems...At least this is what I hear from my construction connections..

Page up a few post's. I explained but ONE example of the third and fourth rate construction we're getting in America, from "foreigners". . In my trade, I've seen some of the most ludicrous, most preposterous illustrations of poor workmanship. A few decades ago, it was not only "honorable" to have a construction/blue collar career, it was admired and it paid well, and there were skill levels that had to be met in order to advance/promote. Someone who knew a skilled trade was very valuable. Today, kids are taught that the only way to succeed in life is through having a college degree. So, kids run off the college, parents pay for 3 years of partying, and the kid flunks out. ORRR........kid graduates, but hates his career, and the only reason he did it was to satisfy his parents insistance.
WE've come a long way at discouraging young people from taking careers in skilled trades, and it shows in the overwhelming absence in the trades. I rarely have wasp's calling me up for work; it's always Hose A or Hose B.


Is money always the most important thing? We all want to make money...but it isnt the bottom line..Its also about producing a quality product for your customer..We have really lost it here in America
IT's been a grab fest for quite some time. And it's a shame that we've allowed our standards to be reduced so heavily. I run across a handful of American tradesmen/women that really enjoy their work, they take the utmost pride in getting up before the crack of dawn and going out and making their mark on society. They love their jobs, they're among the best you'll ever find, but they're so few and far between. WE need to reevaluate what's "worthy" in America, AND ... we need to stop discouraging our young people form taking to blue collar careers b-e-c-a-u-s-e..... those jobs usually lead to more entrepreneurial occupations. A College degree is often .... not always.....but o-f-t-e-n... very limiting in scope.


Its ALL our duty to try to due something...We reaped what we sowed....we must be more involved in our government...they think no ones watching...so they just did whatever they wanted...Maybe things will be different after this terrible lesson we are all suffering thru....All this corruption has been going on for decades..It didnt just start...
........or the people will just think the government will fix it without them saying anything. If one person..... decides to rally together..... with others..... their voice represents t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s .... of annonymous voters, especially when you show up in your state's capital. You show up with a few dozen like-minded people, and start grabbing representatives as they pass by....and A-S-K .. them how they're planning on voting. Trust, me, Y-O-U-'-L-L GET THEIR ATTENTION QUICK. We can change this quicker than you think, but people aren't as organized on immigration issues as they are on others, ........ oh..... let's just say, for instance, "domestic violence". When women decided they'd had enough of getting beat up by their husbands and boyfriends, they went out en masse to the capitals, they grabbed their political representatives by the groins....and DEMANDED.... that something be done. Guess what. They got what they came for, and this immigration issue is no different.
If enough[<<keyword] people start voicing their opinions, it WILL change.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 93 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/10/2008 9:12:43 PM

USA spends so much money on idiotic Piece Corps programs, building hospitals in other countires etc etc (I am a live witness of that from my own "international" experiance) and not mentioning that 80% of San Francisco belongs to Japanese as well as 1% of the population in the USA (about 30,000 gals or dudes ) owns 35% of the national wealth. if 1 or 2 of these people decide to buy an island in Africa, again much more money goes away from here than probably from all poor Mexican guys combined and you picking on these poor hard working latinos and talking "we will suffer .... we will do this we will shoot them " instead of you yourself thinking what is wrong with your asssseeess. If you solve your own problem by seeing what is wrong with you then outside problems can be solved too.

So, let me see if I gather correctly: Because the US has the ability to build hospitals in other Countries, according to "international experiance", we should, thus, do more still, by ignoring the ill effects of illegal immigration? Right. OK. I got it. Thanks. Because we spend money helping outerh countries, by building a hospital for them, it's only fair that we do something to help A-L-L the illegals here. Well, as unfortunate as this may be, the problems with illegal immigration are much farther reaching and exponentially more expensive to deal with that the cost of even the most massive, most techonolgically advanced hospital in the world. That hospital cost would be only 1/2 of a drop in a 50 gallon drum, compared to the cost's illegal immigration poses to this Country.



No let's say someone is driving in that neighborhood over 60 miles per hour and potentially can hit someone, I bet he will be reported by neighbors, bcs the law that you can't drive that fast in neighborhood is a good one.


Unless they think it's an illegal driving, then they wouldn't report him because he might get deported, according to your analogy



Nail, meet Head.

It's like.."if we can just get people to stop thinking about the effects illegal immigrants are having in America....if we can disuade the argument, divert to some new subject, .................m-a-y-b-e they won't do anything about it."
Classic de-nial.
And I'm not talking about a river in Egypt, either.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 140 (view)
 
Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 12/8/2008 12:23:32 PM

The white majority of America are stupid if you think Barack Obama is good for the USA. You're nothing but white sheep being led to the slaughter by him.


erm....... sorry to burst the bubble, but we've already been led to slaughter under Shrub/Cheney/Rumsy/Rovey.

Just for the sake of reference..... check the DOW, friend.

Nothing like a little race baiting before going off into conspiracy nut territory.

Echo, echo, echo.......
Kinda quiet in the political forums these days.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 75 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/7/2008 10:32:04 PM

I am fortunate to be an American even in these tough times, but we have developed a tear in a major financial artery and it is bleeding directly into the country next door.

^^^^^^^^
yep....the aorta..... or maybe the juggler vein....

There's been a money grab going on here in the US...for a LONG , L-O-N-G- time. . and ironically....there are those (ahem) h-e-r-e (C-O-U-G-H) ....who wish to S-T-I-L-L........capitalize further on that concept, interestingly enough. The concept that fails them is that the monies leaving this Country is becoming a devastation....TO THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE...... but yet...they bleed hearts that it will be able to continue.... you know,...... because "they're such hard workers"... or because "they'll work seven days a week if we let then"...... like we should serenade their every step. Geeezz... Like I haven't worked 7 days straight for months on end. FCS. It's just pathetic. Wall and Broad Street bigshots, and the Big 3, and the banks, and the mortgage gurus.... all driving their Lamborghinis, Porsches, Ferraris, Bentleys and Mercedes......have got their hands out...(that's one vein that's severed) asking the gov't to force the middle class to bail them out ...... while silently, the hands are out from the other side, too (another severed vein)...."because they're such hard working, 'honest' (ha) people....who do ALLLLL the jobs "elite" white folks won't do. See, that's as big a bunch of donkey-doo as I've ever heard. No, the truth is, the silent plague that's really eating this Country is coming from points south and that vein that's been bleeding out.....has run us dry. Period. We're on the verge of m-a-j-o-r financial colapse in this Country.... and people STILL want to stand on their soapbox and try and disregard the entire legal aspect of it. I'm just so sick of it.....I think I'm about to .
It's just maddening to witness.....WHy dont' people get the gist of this ... we're a sinking ship....we can't take on any new passengers...... I mean... do you not grasp the idea? What part of financial ruin do you not get?

Merry Freakin Christmas EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 130 (view)
 
People who think you are hot V2.
Posted: 12/7/2008 10:56:02 AM
Me wishes all the girls my age looked as hot as Bullielover

OT:
Every woman listed on the list of those who think I'm hot.... are O-L-D-E-R.... than me.

Did someone sneak up and rename the list to "Cougars and Jaguars...... who think I'm hot? "

This seems to be the norm when it comes to women who respond to my emails, or those who choose to email me.

I guess I'm just not that progressive when it comes to relationships.... I mean, I wouldn't date a girl that's close to my daughters age of 19, but then again, I'm by no means into a geriatric version of lust, either.

Where's the middle of the road?
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 72 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/7/2008 10:29:49 AM
Sorot, thanks for your expert business consultation.

Where should I mail the check?


So, if you lower your #3 and find the cheap but at the same time fast and hard working manual laor and lower your quote to a reasonable degree, you can sell that job

There's a value to knowledge and skill... and there are levels of service that equate to value. I'm already competitive, with regard to the market value of the work I propose, and the experience I've had, hiring cheap labor... equates to cheap craftsmanship. Maybe it's different with what you do....maybe it's not as intricate, maybe it's not as critical when human error is involved. Yet in my trade, you either know how it's done, or you don't. This client picked someone who really didnt' know how to perform the work, got paid for doing shoddy work, and then dissappeared when it failed. This is the usual protocol in my trade....it happens routinely, every day of every week. I've lost countless thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in work to illegal workers... they're not satisfied working for a guy like me, and l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g this trade....from a professional..... they'd rather try and take my work....pretending to know how to do it...... and make off with the money.....see, we have (or had) much higher standards here than in mexico....I know....but the average homeowner hears how cheap something is, and their ears light up......and they're not comparing apples to apples....they're comparing an apple to a prune...... they just dont' know they're getting a prune for the price of an apple.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 2960 (view)
 
GUYS!!! If you met the right woman, could you wait for the sex till marriage?
Posted: 12/7/2008 9:16:21 AM
Perhaps there are those who can maintain an objective perspective whilst sexually involved with someone, but I am not amongst them. It is the foundation of friendship that carries a long-term relationship, and it is best to determine if that foundation is there before becoming sexual.

Garden, Hi Beautiful. LTNS
IMHo's, ITs a given that the longterm friendship is based on personalities, not sex, and that foundation is key to having a functional, rewarding relationship. I just wonder if you're considering the question at hand..... whether you could wait until "marriage" to have sex. Say you date someone for a year, you seem to know them so well.... and yet, you've never been to bed with them. Would you marry someone not knowing how you two feel together, intimately? Would you advise someone to marry another, prior to having sex? I dated a girl a few months, and would have sworn we'd be great in bed. Yet that presumption of mine was just that.... presumptive....and it had a huge impact on the decision I made to exit the relationship.
I tend to feel the personality of a person is external to their enjoyment of sex, and while there are innumerable women I could easily enjoy being around for a lifetime, I'd have to say that sex is a vital part of the equation and I, therefore, would not consumate the marital vows before having sex with the person in question. The greatest personalities, the most fun-loving people on earth - could be hapless and without a clue in bed.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 70 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/6/2008 8:56:38 AM
I am frustrated by the fact (I am in a construction related business) that I can't legally hire a Mexican dude who is 5-3 ahout 150lb, puts the tent on his shoulder and just walks one, two story houses, and can tent 5 houses a day with his friend without aking for scuffolding and nagging, complaining like you are doing here, and will do that for $10-15 bucks an hour. You just can't find a white guy" who will do that.

The gist of what you're saying is mexicans are better workers. There seems to be the need to compare "whites" to "mexicans"....and suggest the mexicans are better suited for the jobs...... I not only disagree, I have magnanimous amounts of evidence to the contrary.

This comparison you're attempting to make is, ironically, very far from true. In fact, I got a shower pan repair just this week; it was in a bathroom I bid on four years prior, but lost the bid to another mexican installer.

Here's a prime example of where the comparison lies.

Originally, I proposed this steam shower at $6800, they were at $3800. They nailed durock on the curb, as well as through the shower floor pan liner, cut the pan liner all the way to the sub-flooring, and since they didn't have the knowledge, or skill, to mud a shower floor properly, they fudged it by stacking multiple layers of durock on the floor. I was astounded when I tore it out, to find the stupidest, most incompetant shower pan I've ever replaced. So, talk A-L-L- Y-O-U- W-A-N-T about how much more qualified mexicans are. For every story you've got, I've got ten more to disprove yours with. That $3000's seems like a huge difference, but considering they just paid me close to $3000 to replace the shower pan, and they're still left with a botched shower, because of the other lacking skills they had, I'd say that money would have been well spent if I'd done the original shower. The truth is, they (mexicans) have done nothing short of slowly destroy our basic infrastructure by providing sub-standard work for years/decades past, nailing durock to curbs, building wooden seats in showers, and doing simply atrocious craftsmanship, simply because they don't know how. I know their skill levels; I've been hired countless times to fix their botched workmanship; I've been in many mexican businesses and hotels and seen the quality they provide there; I've made the mistake of hiring mexicans who were convincing enough, paid handsome ransomes to fix their fvckups, and it just astounds me how we've allowed their poor craftsmanship to infiltrate our world. There's the real problem- Americans are not educated on trades, and have been duped into thinking they're getting the same work for less by hiring mexicans. And as far as not finding a white guy for the work, let's supplant "legal" guy for the word "white". See, there's that itsy-bitsy, teensy-weensy tidbit of information "S-O-M-E people would just rather ignore.
I care less what color skin or nationality someone is. While we're at it, in addition to "legal", let's add in "qualified". Technology in mexico is Mickey Mouse compared to the standards we have (or had) here. Yet our society has become accustomed to having some cheap labor available and they've gotten used to getting work done for less. Mind you, the homeowners aren't tradesmen, so they often don't recognize the poor quality they received until later.

As the saying goes, "the bitterness of poor quality last far longer than the sweetness of a cheap price".

So, is this good for the economy that construction related bbusinesses can't legally hire
"Economy?" Hmm.... Do you know that the number two source of monies the mexican gov't/banks takes in is monies sent from illegals working here? That means all (or most of) the monies they take in here are not redistributed into our "economy. " Funny you should mention "economy". Couple that fact with the massive amounts of evidence supporting how heavy a burden mexicans (or other illegals.....let's not unjustly stereotype here) place on our infrastructure, from hospitalization, to education, to fire/rescue/police protective services, gov't funded housing, et al, there's really nothing more than a baseless, red herring, strawman argument, that the mexicans are somehow adding to our "economy". No, that's delusional....wishful thinking.....cow dunge...., and without any basis in fact. One case in point involves a mexican that is in a vegetable state, and getting care here in a US hospital. His cost's run the state 1 million dollars a year....to be kept in ICU here in the US. The mexican gov't refuses to allow him to be moved to a hospital there, so we're stuck with him, as well as his medical cost. That's but ONE example. Other than sales taxes on purchases, they're not increasing our economic stability. See, I deal real well with facts.....and I won't pretend that a business that can't "legally hire an illegal" for less money, (which is what you're proposing) is suffering some financial burden, or that it incapacitates our "economy".

Nice try, though.

Ok, not really.

Thanks for sharing.
Keep coming back.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 67 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/5/2008 8:37:02 AM
Medical treatment, schools, government programs- the list is endless-as to just how much it cost American taxpayers already to house, feed, and educate illegals. Cali is already asking for 7 billion in relief, but number show illegals cost Cali residents 11 Billion already. Other states that have far less wealth than Cali are already teetering on bankruptcy.
===============================================


plzzz, I am in Cali and know for sure that undocumented workers are one of the major source of economic grouth.

Those who are writing this "complains" I bet do not know any person who is an undocumented worker. They are just hard working people who work for much less and much more without much claims and complaints. You have better met a union worker who was a storage person and was doing virtually nothing and getting $8,000.00 a month salary. At that time I was running my business working 12-14 hours a day and was not even making that much.

So it's easy there sit and just theoritically "discuss" "illegal immigration" without being exposed to it.

How soooooo very presumptuous a comment to make. SO, I guess I've given this poster the notion I'm an uppity "white-boy" who's never worked a day in his life.
Geez, where do I start. First, I have many neighbors that are illegals. I have friends who are illegal, as are their children; I work among them in hte construction trade. One lady and her daughter were here last night using my computer; they're from Nicaraugua, no license, no green card, no nada. I'm one of a handful of legal "white" people living in this immediate area....it is otherwise very ethnic....meaning....I'm the minority here, sweets. And I know who's illegal because I have dinner with them, I live next door, across the street, and down the road from a large populous of them. So, please.....PLEASE .....don't pass your judgement on me, that I know no undocumented illegals. You don't have the first clue. I was engaged twice to latino women....1 from Colombia, another from Brazil....and I speak/understand portuguese and spanish? Comprende?

than those who are receiving all these government benefits, going to Ford or GM factory and are in "reserve" meaning they just need to show up to keep their full salary. It's about production and honest work. If these people just want to work, then I think they just need to have a paper, instead of lazy politicians and you here just talk and do nothing about it.
Well, I agree, the Big 3 auto makers here have some serious delimnas...and yes...I know they're paid handsomely....while they sometimes skip out of work, not to mention, they get full pay and benefits in retirement. It's killing them, and we're witnessing that now. GM will be bankrupt by the end of this month (december, 2008) if they dont' get 4 billion in emergency funds. And I agree, again, politicians do a lot of talk, but do nothing. All the wall street and broad street tycoons, drivign their Lamborghinis and Bentleys and Ferraris, are getting hefty-handouts from the gov't while the middle class loses their houses, retirements, and everything they've ever worked for in life. Sooner or later, civil unrest is going to occur. People will revolt and take to the streets. So, yes, this is a major problem here, and you see, the middles class isn't just dealing with the upper crust making off with billions while they suffer, they're having to compete for work with those here illegally, who came from an impoverished nation and are willing to work for dirt. We're getting squeezed from top and bottom. But in any case, we're talking about American companies... we're not talking about mexican or other latin companies.... maybe we should turn the discussion to how well latin companies, in mexico for instance, ....how well they pay their employees. See, we're still dealing with the cart before the horse... and I'm amused, at best, that some people still wish to ignore the laws here, who wish to circumvent border laws, and continue a discussion as to how these people are such hard workers. Who really gives a rats AZZ if they're able to work..... do you not think for one minute that there are people N-O-W, legal Americans, who have lost jobs.... and are looking for work....who can't find a job because illegals are here in the workplace? You bet your AZZ there are. See, when the top begins to fold, as our mortgage/auto industry/et al....indicates today, people start looking for lower paying jobs.... only right now,,.... there are none....or at least very little...and that's primarily because we have such a tremendous influx of illegals still here..... taking those jobs that the laid off Americans are looking for. I KNOW. I WORK IN CONSTRUCTION....AND I LOSE WORK ON A WEEKLY BASIS.... TO THE ILLEGAL WORKERS.

So, plz don't tell here they cost money to people. You better find out how much money you cost to the government up to this point. They can't claim anything, how in the world they cost anything? When I didn't have papers, what I wanted to do not to show up to any governmental organization bcs of the fear of being deported, so those who don't have papers go to the doors of government and ask for something? May be their kids for school, but kids are kids, their parents work and they get education in school.
Education is but one source of funding illegals receive here that are costing our states hardship. Furthermore, it's a well documented fact that hospitals across the nation, in Cali especially, are being forced to close their doors because of the cost of treating illegals who don't pay for services.
IT's delusional to suggest illegals dont' cost us any money. 11 billion US dollars a year is what the estimated cost is, in Cali alone, for illegals.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 79 (view)
 
My gf won't even let me touch her down there
Posted: 12/4/2008 9:36:35 AM
Why do all of you think that I'm trying to pressure her. I've only tried to do more with her like 3 times EVER. 3 times in 4.5 months. I only really tried again because I was asking her why she felt uncomfortable when I would try to become intimate, and she said she was sorry and she really does want to and for me to try "next time". So I did, and she had to stop me again.

OP, nearly every single inch of a womans body can become an errogenous zone, meaning, an area that, when touched or stroked properly, it changes there mental focus, and often leads to sexual desire. I've said I think she could just be frigid, and others have, too. Yet, we're not in the bedroom (or living room) with you and her.
But if it's been 4 months, you've tried 3 times to move closer, and you're not getting anywhere, but she says she wants you to try next time..... there's something amidst that we're not all privy to. You may not be forward enough for her....she may subconsciously desire an alpha male->>highly aggressive....and you're not doing it for her....or maybe she's really feeling let down from the past guy and not wanting to revisit those feelings, or even take that chance. Maybe she's protecting her emotions....but we can't know all that.
But, (coma) you could try doing different things.....try giving her a foot massage....or even suck a few toes....i know....sounds disgusting...right? But the sensation is brilliant. Try giving her a back massage.... try getting some kama sutra oil and offer her a full body massage...
It may be a bit more patience will be your best opportunity...it may be you're not doing what she wants done to illicit those amorous feelings....
I read a book at around your age.....called "How To Make Love to A Woman", by an annonymous author, M. What a great read, as are many books on sexual gratification. It may be as simple as... you're just stuck in a rut of sorts....to which she anticipates your moves and advances.....so break it up a bit.....
I think the feet and toes are the number one best bang for the buck.....hey..it's worth a try...and you might just realize you enjoy giving her those pleasures too. It won't be sexually explicit, but it does break down walls in many cases, which can lead to people letting go of their inhibitions. Either way you look at it, people will have ddiffering views on a particular subject, and not everyone is right OR wrong....because at this point, we're all outsiders, with no possible chance of knowing the dynamics of the relationship you're in.
If you're really struck with this gal....give her time....but I think several have warned...withholding intimacy in relationshps...is often a red flag for future episodes....buyer beware...so.... it's a concept you're going to have to master yourself. We're all jsut here piddling away our time commenting on your personal situation....and you wont' find everyone being the same pussycat.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 192 (view)
 
Why do you think Sarah will not speak to the media?
Posted: 12/4/2008 7:39:47 AM

Look at all the problems she made for McCain ... he was constantly having to clean up her messes and apologizing for her

I dont' think she realizes her dumbfoundedness...... I think she's really that dense....and I would surmise her IQ is at or less than Shrubs. Neither are what we'd call a sharp tool in the shed. What they lack in intelectual prowess they make up for, at least in some part, by being gregarious and having a flair that certain people identify with, the party line holders who only seek to further their own ambitions.
They both amaze me with how ignorant and ill-informed one can be and still hold high office.
More amazing to me was the joint interview MCCain/Palin did with Couric to try and turn it around....but it was too late....even then, she managed to say something that MCCain had to fend off for her. And she negated the notion that she'd lost him any votes, but apoligized if she had lost him even one vote. Considering the nation was awaiting his veep pick, I'd say he handed them a choice they simply could not live with unless you're the base of the party, the evangelicals. Those hardcore thumpers loved her.... idiocy and all.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 70 (view)
 
My gf won't even let me touch her down there
Posted: 12/4/2008 6:57:06 AM
OP,
Am I wasting my time? How long is too long to wait? I mean I'm not even asking for sex, I'm just talking about anything. I'm trying to pleasure HER, and the last thing I would ever expect her to do would be to unzip my pants and give me a stroke.

I'd say she's either frigid....and uncomfortable with sex....((MMMM not a good sign....will probably refuse intimacy in relationships to garner whatever wants she may have or she'll make you feel responsible for her own inadequacies) OR she's just not into you- but because nothing more substancial has come her way, she's just biding her time (and yours) while she's still in search for her truer love.
Are you two church goers? IS she feeling remorse for having sex, to begin with? Maybe she's trying to fill her virginal cup, so to speak, acting all pristine and angelic.
A lot of modern religions teach, or rather, worship virginity, so young girls become accustomed to being given that mindthought, brainwashing of sorts. It's hard for them to work past all the guilt associated with having sex until well into their latter life.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 7 (view)
 
20,000 troops on ground in US?
Posted: 12/3/2008 11:59:27 PM
Hmmmmmmmm...seems like everyone is afraid of what MAY be happening to us. If this is true, what do you think about it? Why would we need troops on the ground? Seems folks do not like to read anything longer than 20 words...oh well!

OR.... they've read it and still dont' agree with it's content?
The proposition (which I'm repeating from "other " sources) that we've already "s-e-e-n" a fascist gov't in the oval office, from the coup of 2000 until present, still holds.

I see the usual crowd posting their usual diatribe. Yet non of our friends will answer the question. "WHAT IF'? What are we going to do IF this happens folks? Your going after the source without looking at the facts.


Oh come now. Post a thread of contentious content, complain that no one's discussing the matter, but when people do comment, berate their efforts because it doesn't suit ones thoughts? Maybe they missed the "captive audience only" sign coming in. ?


Going after the source without looking at the facts? Would this be regarding Becks flashing neon sign? He's not exactly the worlds foremost source of credible information, and while I may agree that the media does not present all the information available in a completely non-biased manner (apolitically speaking) , there's still a bit of contradiction to some of Becks snake-handling. He is a sensationalist, a high paid political pundit, no different than many others of the same ilk. Which is precisely why the Fairness Doctrine has been proposed. If anything, we've been duped through censored media, because the administration (present) uses different manners of manipulation to avoid detection (Rove refusing to testify, et al). Bush refuses to allow a national, governmental institute to publish reports on the global environment, in order to hush the destructive nature of global warming. That's censorship. If anything, we'll be getting more meat and less fat from the media in the coming years, more accuracy and facts instead of mental persuasion.
So, it isn't so much people dont' want to discuss what happens "if", they may just view things in a different manner. Remember, Bush and McCain both failed to acknowledge a catastrophic wall street situation until a few days prior to it hitting the media. And with that in mind, what would make anyone think they have any better handle of, or understanding of, the situation now? If we're looking at higher security in the streets, if mayhem is about to unfold due to civil unrest, one should ask themselves this- how did we get here? I can say this... it isn't due to anything our President-elect has done. And the o-n-l-y place to consider is the powers that be. I would strongly disagree with Beck, that Obama has A-N-Y intention of carrying a torch from Bush.

i agree with your friend.. i dont think usa stock market has bottomed yet....
your only just in official recession.. from my research.. yes youve had slow down etc..
but most definitions of a official recession are
2 contractions= official recession.. 4 contractions= depression...

now remember obama... hasnt even started yet.. this is all happening... now and the consequences../results are really just begun.... you can not in the next 2 years blame him for this.... he will be at least 2 years cleaning this up.. to try and stabilise it...
some predictions are 5 years to get even keel...

I don't think the market has bottomed yet, either. Pretty scary really. And I agree, you can't blame Obama for even a smidgen of this...he forecasted this months before. Nobody in the admin listened.
5 yrs to get even keel...it's interesting. The economy, the ebb and flow of business- is much like a ship on the ocean. It takes a ship a lonnnnggg time to even keel, to steady itself. It take several square miles to turn a really big ship around in the ocean, at full speed, without bringing it to a complete stop. Interesting correlation there. And the sources I trust say it's going to get worse before it get's better. We're going to be riding rough waters for a while, still, because of the rippling in the economy, starting post 9/11. And the merciless imfatuation in Iraq has done nothing but kill the economy.

i think 1 month over 60,000 lost their homes in 1 month alone.....

Staggering, isn't it? AND, all-the-while, Hank Paulsens buddies down on wall street are getting the payoff. How much more arrogant can they be and why are there s-t-i-l-l no checks and balances for where that bailout money is going? It's Staggering, Invidious, Contemptuous.
Meanwhile, GM's planning on laying off 31,000 employees.
No, we're still headed in a downward fashion. We ain't hit bottom yet. We have Big 3 CEO"S dragging their tails back to Washington in their hybrid cars, rather than their executive jets, beggin for bailout monies. That ain't a pretty sight and it's a horrific indication of where our economy presently stands.
When wall street tycoons, driving their Lamborghinis and Bentleys, are getting hefty-handouts from the governement, while the laymen and middle class lose everything they own, there is likely going to be some civil unrest. People just wont' stand for it. Sooner or later, the gasket's going to blow.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 5 (view)
 
20,000 troops on ground in US?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:40:18 AM
If our federal government, God forbid we get our hands on a dictator, God forbid -- and I know people said to me ten years ago, "Oh, Glenn, we'll never..." gang, we're on the eve of it. I'm not saying it's Barack Obama. Hell, it could be Sarah Palin in four years that does it. But I'm telling you we're on the eve of fascism.

(yawn)
Erm...... Mr Beck appears delusional, at best, in this segment.
If ever this Nation has seen fascism, we've already been through the worst of it. Nothing left to do but pick up the broken pieces and move on.
Let's see, a coup in 2000, followed by eight years of dictatorship? Corruption at it's best (or worst). Just ignore the common people, the mass majority, let them suffer, while we have massive military expenditures. Sure, bankrupt the economy and force people into the streets while the greed grab in Iraq supplies the chronies their necessary addictions.
Sounds much like fascism to me.

I believe that the American citizenry would have no earthly clue what to do should something like this happen. If the economy goes as bad as the OP describes, well...
A financial analyst/client of mine speculated we'd see DOW 5000, less than half it's normal level. With the markets continuing to plunge deeper and deeper, I'd say there's a very good chance of that happening. Civil unrest is, in such cases, a very real possibility.
20,000 ground troops would be a good idea; there's a possibility of another civil war in this Country. We're so divided on such basic, fundamental issues, it wouldn't surprise me at all. And BTW, it has everything to do with the respective parties. IF we weren't so divided, this wouldn't be our current political landscape.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 24 (view)
 
A Note from an Honest Republican
Posted: 11/25/2008 10:06:54 PM
coast Democrats drink a way more diabolical cool aid of radical enviromentalism that turns people poor. The radical enviromentalism increase utility rates, increase fuel costs, increase food costs things that hurt the worst off the most.

You'll have to explain, in English, how environmentalism increases fuel cost's, food cost's, etc.

Hyprocrits the Democrats can be on the enivroment and them florestant light blubs required in 2010 means if one breaks in the house means you have to ripped out the carpet, wall covering to remove the mercury

(passes gizzy my websters) First, I buy and use "florescent" bulbs. They last a day past forever. Furthermore, if everyone switched to florescent bulbs, we'd cut our energy cost's by 1/4.

How much energy dollars does that translate into? How much energy dollars does this Country use burning incandescent lighting and how much is 1/4 of that bill?

I'd like to know how THAT much energy dollars translates into "increasing fuel or food cost's".


if one breaks in the house means you have to ripped out the carpet, wall covering to remove the mercury.

Gizzy, have you been listening to Rush Limp-ball's again?
WHO, I ask............. has CONVINCED you.....that you have to re-carpet or wall cover your home to rid it of mercury, in the event a florescent bulb ever breaks?

I'd strongly recommend checking your sources before cutting that loose in public.

SO, is it really a conspiracy between the gov't. and florescent bulb manufacturers in bed with carpet and wall covering industry leaders?


DAmn, I gotta start catching more Rush.


dont turn big oil, coal into boggie men for poltical points.

I still think you're missing the point. Coal burning smoke, as well as gas burning cars and trucks, clogs the atmosphere; it blocks>>>>>>>> O-U-T the suns rays, thereby creating a "greenhouse" effect. Surely, you've been in a greenhouse before, and felt how warm and humid it is, right? Same effect..... the earth is being kept warmer than it would be were we not burning so much fossil fuel. (You do realize coal and oil are, essentially, dinosaur remains, right? That's how it's gotten it's nickname. )

(Passes gizzy my newest edition of National Geographic magazine)


 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 51 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 11/24/2008 6:33:24 AM
Hey Mane, I share your concerns. What is your opinion on what should be done, and does our new president have a plan on what should be done? I'm at a loss personally as to what should be done when we are considering the real financial impact and also humanitarian issues.

From a humanitarian perspective, I think we should consider those who live here, legally, first, and subsequently concern ourselves with those here illegally. Were we to enforce the laws already in place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The financial impact? Would this be in reference to the magnanimous financial burden illegals already place on our infrastructure? Medical treatment, schools, government programs- the list is endless-as to just how much it cost American taxpayers already to house, feed, and educate illegals. Cali is already asking for 7 billion in relief, but number show illegals cost Cali residents 11 Billion already. Other states that have far less wealth than Cali are already teetering on bankruptcy. A thread I started on illegal immigration and the candidates is still stagnant, and I don't have a lot of hope that either party is going to effect change. If Obama makes this a key issue, I'll be very happy, but I've not heard from anyon, on either side, thusfar, (with exception to Bill Richardson) that they are proposing effective change. I don't think amnesty is the answer; we already have more immigrants in this Country than any other country in the world.But then,....who wants to sneak into Guam, FCS.

My opinion? I think illegals from nations around the world are here on borrowed time, whether it's mexico, and parts south, or euro and middle eastern immigrants. I think we should fine and imprison companies who hire illegals, from the major corporations all the way down to the individual homeowner hiring cleaning services and lawncare. If Buckhead Betty knew it would cost her $1000 in fines if she were hiring illegals to clean her house or do her lawnwork, she'd be scrubbing and cleaning herself, or hiring LEGAL contractors to do the work. I think it's time we start showing respect and protection to "legal" residents, first, and THEN we'll begin to see change. IF we just enforce our laws that we already have in place, starting with the companies who hire illegals, we'd make a huge impact.

One other possibility:
Give every illegal crossing the border an M-16 rifle, send them to Iraq (or wherever Obama thinks they can serve) , and let them serve our Nation for a minimum of 3 yrs. They will have earned the right to become a citizen here. I'm really tired of hearing the woeful cries for humanity, regarding illegal immigrants, while our own legal citizens are losing their homes, their jobs, their retirements, and everything they've worked for in life.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 190 (view)
 
Why do you think Sarah will not speak to the media?
Posted: 11/24/2008 6:14:50 AM

Wow Mane, for someone who is so party biased, I can't help but chuckle that you would try to point out someone elses bias, a bit ironic if you ask me . Let me be clear so that hopefully you can grasp my point of view. I have no political allegiance to Sarah Palin, I did not feel like she was a good choice for Vice President, however I do admire her as a strong woman in a very tough business. I find her engaging, and I'd probably like to be her friend.

The issue, in this particular case, isn't as much party affiliation, so much as it is credentials and mere logical thought. AS an American, I've been rather "ashamed" that the world watched those same gafffes from Palin that I did. AS a member of her party, I'd have to just go hide my face and stop trying to carry the torch, admitting that she was a miserable mistake to begin with. My Gawd, what part of stupid is so hard to comprehend. (?) I'd like to hang out with Palin, I've made that statement several times, but on issues of national defense, budget, foreign policies, et al, like I've said, I've got a 15 yr old daughter who would give Palin a run for her money, and there's very little exageration to that. Now, in terms of appearance and style, Palin's a winner, hands down.
People have "attacked" Palin because there's so much about her that's laughable. Obama? Well, he's got some seriously big ears, but.....otherwise, he's blue chip all the way. Trying to compare these two tickets (Obama/Biden-Palin/McCain) is like trying to compare steak tar-tar and lobster newburgh with a Big Mac and an order of fries. There really is no comparison. And if people want effect change and relief, there's a clear choice based on merit, alone. That's not party affiliation, it rudimentary fact, reason, and logical thought. BTW, Obama's already asked McCain to help in his administration, so he's already shown the initiative in reaching across those party lines.
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 46 (view)
 
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 11/23/2008 12:34:08 PM
Whats the old saying ?????

"Nothing Matters,...and What if It Did" ?

Thats the kind of thoughts, that go into addressing this issiue of illegals.....

If the citizens protest,..were considered to be the "Ugly American",......

So our leaders,...DO NOTHING !


With the financial catastrophy we're witnessing today, I happen to think those cities teetering on bankruptcy and the nation, as a whole, are going to have to find relief S-O-M-E-W-H-E-R-E. We can't continue in the same vein as we've been accustomed to, and this includes not turning a blind eye to one our most critical concerns, the problem of illegal immigration.
Cali is asking the gov't for a 7 bil bailout, while the current numbers show an 11 bil (annual) cost for all illegal immigrants welfare, safety, and schools (etc) . (This is but one state)
Cities across the nation are on the verge of bankruptcy, yet we're still miles and miles away from a plan to do anything about this mess. Somewhere, somehow, we're going to H-A-V-E to stop ignoring this politically incorrect mess.....illegals are, ironically, still working during this slow economic time, as they offer their services at well below par (and below the table) of what American wages should be, yet American's,,,,, errrr..... those of us here L-E-G-A-L-L-Y..... are having to really squeeze that turnip to get any blood. It's havoc, it's inescapeable misery for so many Americans...who are losing homes, jobs, and being tossed into the streets. .yet our "south-of-the-border" neighbors are, in many cases, handily making off with their usual take. Where's the logic in any of this?
Soon enough, we're going to HAVE to take action, and while I empathize with many foreigners here who are illegal, they knew the laws before they came here, they've been on borrowed time for many years, in some cases, so.....I hope they'll make preparations because we can't continue ignoring such a catastrophic set of circumstances.

I just want my Country back
 manerider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 711 (view)
 
Over for Mccain?
Posted: 11/21/2008 9:10:57 AM
^^^^^^^^^^MCcains failure is, in large part, due to Bush's failed policies.
McCain would have done a far superior job than Bush, and had republicans nominated him in 2000, the republicans would be, as well as Americans at large, in much better shape now. Sorry, but I find it wholely appropriate to bring Bush's failings into light with regard to it being over for MCcain.
A glimmer of hope has emerged for MCCain....as Obama met with him this week to talk about his potentially working in Obamas cabinet. Maybe it's not over for MCCain yet?

I think a lot of MCCain, but his maverick brand of politics seems over the top, and we're much better off with a more tactful, diplomatic approach to presidency, the likes we're sure to see in Obama.
 
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